Who Was the Most Pointless Royal of 2011?
Pointlessness was down in 2011, way down. Heralded rookies Mike Moustakas and Eric Hosmer made their debuts, as did a raft of relievers. The Royal outfield, riddled with question marks headed into Opening Day, was surprisingly strong, and after the extension of Francoeur, less pointless.
Nevertheless, the Royals were a bad team with a roster still amidst a long rebuild. When we look back on this in five years, who will be the most pointless member of the 2011 Royals?
What do I mean by pointless? Well, why exactly was Doug Waechter on the 2009 Royals? What was accomplished by having Kip Wells around in 2008? In 2010, Gregor Blanco played 49 games with the Royals. Umm, why? If you can't find a reason for their existence other than "we had to field a team" I'd say, in a nice way, they were pointless. We may have talked about them excitedly at the time, but as the years pass, they just seem like random moments in time.
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Easily Francis
Nice of us to give him a full season to rehab. Vintage AAAA.
WILSON BETEMIT = RATINGS
by JobDDT on Oct 18, 2011 1:33 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Navarro
got demoted to play every day because Ned thought he could play every day.. and then only played shortstop in Omaha. Productive use of talent
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
by BHWick on Oct 18, 2011 1:34 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Doesn't the organization think of Yam as a SS.
That’s why they sent him down. They wanted to see what he had there, just in case Escobar didn’t hit enough to play. Yam will probably get a chance as the utility man in 2012. Right?
by royal_in_cincinnati on Oct 18, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
by August 2011
it wasn’t like Escobar’s stock was plummeting. So why not give Navarro a shot to hone his skills at other positions in AAA instead of having him continue to learn in the big leagues?
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
St. Christopher of the Blessed Getz
and we may get to enjoy him next year too!
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
I think a point could be made regarding Getz, Treanor, Francis, and Adcock
However, it’s a matter of what you deem to be more pointless when it comes to Mitch, Kila, Dyson, and Navarro.
I don’t see how it’s pointless to keep a Rule 5 guy on the roster all year. The point is to avoid returning him to his former team. It seems clear he wasn’t and isn’t MLB ready, but we can now send him to the minors and see what he becomes. I don’t know… maybe you’ve already decided he won’t become anything. If so, I get it. But I haven’t reached that conclusion yet.
by kcemigre on Oct 18, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
definitely that makes sense
for me, I guess, it’s just the fact that the whole thing felt like a chore… what’s his upside? a non-horrible reliever?
I can see the argument for keeping him around, especially since the Royals were going to be bad
follow-up poll
most pointless Rule 5 player
I would think non-horrible starter is also a possibility, right?
I mean, he was a starter his whole career until the Rule 5 landed him on a 25-man roster for the year.
He’d never pitched above high-A to that point. And he’s the same age as Dwyer. Is there some reason to think he should be relegated to the ‘pen going forward? I’d think you might as well put him in the NWA rotation and see what happens…
Yeah, I think Adcock could possibly become a decent #5 SP
Maybe. And every team needs SP depth as they are likely to go 10-deep in SP’s over the course of a season. I was happy to use a roster spot on a Rule 5 player so that the Royals SP depth is improved a little over the next few years. And what was the cost? Lost MLB playing time for Jesse Chavez? I consider that a positive.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Oct 19, 2011 11:04 AM EDT up reply actions
What reason?
He’s getting my vote.
I can articulate a reason for everyone on this list except for Getz. Some of those reasons are pretty stupid, but at least I can articulate something…
My reason was that we weren't completely convinced that he was not an average-ish 2B
And even halfway through the season his defense was propping up his bat – by the end, though, it became fully clear that he’s not really the solution at 2B.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Oct 18, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Aviles might have been/be an "average-ish 2b"
…I’m not sure how big the error bars are on the term “average-ish,” but you get my point. Are you suggesting that Getz could have been so average-ish that we wouldn’t want to lose him? I just didn’t worry about that too much.
a guy who's averagish at getz age is much more likely to be averageish by time the window hopefully opens up...
hopefully gia, navarro or colon make this a moot point though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with your sentiment
I voted for Dyson, not because I hate him or anything, just didn’t see the point of having a pinch-runner around. If he has the potential to be something, he needs to be playing regularly, or at least turned into a “real” fourth outfielder rather than a PR specialist.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 18, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
My apologies
Still getting used to accountability. —MK
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Oct 18, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh good
For a minute there I thought your account had been hacked.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 18, 2011 2:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Tim Lacy would be proud
Best Farm System EVER
by tiquanunderwear on Oct 18, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I must have missed the backstory on this…
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Oct 18, 2011 3:24 PM EDT up reply actions
see timlacy's posts
his screen name is his name…but he insists on signing every post-tl
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
It started with this inquiry from tiquanunderwear
by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 18, 2011 3:40 PM EDT up reply actions
There we go, there’s the smoking gun I was looking for.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Oct 18, 2011 3:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, I knew that much. Didn’t know if there was a specific incident that led to mk/df to start adopting the habit.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Oct 18, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
The reason I didn't vote for Dyson,
b/c Yost never uses his bench. So whats the differnce in having Dyson ready to pitch run and Maier as a 4th outfielder? They should carry 10 pitchers next season and 1 backup catcher.
by royal_in_cincinnati on Oct 18, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions
But, "That's what speed do"...
Isn’t that enough of a reason. He was there to provide us a memorable slogan for the year.
I think Dyson adds a ton of value as a PR specialist, just not for 5 weeks.
But I also don’t think he gets on base at anything resembling acceptable at the major league level, so I’d rather he didn’t bat much anyway. If he came into any game with it tied or whatnot in the 7th or later, I wouldn’t mind him PRing and then sliding into CF for defensive purposes.
Nick Swisher is handsome. Johnny Giavatella close second.
exactly...that has value on a good team...
and i think more value even on a bad team than a 4th of who isnt ever used and doesnt have any real plus abilities
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 19, 2011 12:03 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont see why maier is getting votes
he seems pointless with how the season played out, but he was there for insurance in case of injury or frenchy/melky/gordon stinking up the joint.
I voted for poor Mitch
I understand that there was a point to having him on the roster. It’s just that Ned (potentially through Dayton’s influence) hardly ever utilized him for that point. To me, Mitch was “effectively pointless” even though his presence on the roster was full of point from a roster-planning perspective.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 18, 2011 2:02 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
The point of MITCH was two fold:
1.) I didn’t have to change my screen name, 2.) It really doesn’t get any better than letters from summer camp MITCH.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Oct 18, 2011 4:01 PM EDT up reply actions
mitch was pointless b/c he didnt really provide anything.
if you’re going to play your 3 starting OF everyday, then a guy like dyson makes sense as a 4th OF b/c he’s good defensively in center and can be used as a PR in close, late games. mitch doesnt bring anything to the table other than not being especially shitty at anything
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions
i guess
i’m just looking at it like you need a guy like that on the roster just in case. i wasn’t factoring in the fact that it appeared yost forgot mitch was on the roster for weeks on end at times this season.
yeah...its kinda like the backup ss in my mind...
it might be ideal to have him…but worst case is youre playing part of one game with a guy not suited for the position like betemit wouldve been at short and dyson in right or whatever
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 10:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The most pointless one was Boom Boom or SOS
Not only was there no reason to use them, but they stank like a beer-egg fart.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Not to mention Davies
Although, I guess the thinking is “find out if these guys can be major league pitchers in a year that doesn’t matter”. Unfortunately, we found out that none of them are. But I guess there was some point.
Getz got my vote. “Defensive specialist” 2nd basemen are pointless to begin with. Those who aren’t that good with the glove are worse. We had guys who actually came with bats who could field the position nearly as well. And Getz is nothing close to part of the future in KC.
I voted for Yamaico
I had already forgotten that he’s a Royal…
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Oct 18, 2011 2:38 PM EDT reply actions
I voted Getz. My runners-up would be Dyson and Treanor.
Dyson had a limited role to play, and it is pretty much impossible to imagine him improving the team going forward. On the other hand, he was at least fun to watch. If we are allowed to consider “fun to watch” as a reason for guys to be on the roster (and I think we should be), I’m not picking Dyson.
Treanor, technically, had a point: “veteran catcher.” Every team, apparently, needs a veteran catcher somewhere on the 25-man roster. I think it’s in the rules. But I hate that rule, so Treanor seemed pretty pointless to me. This one is really close. As much as I hate the “veteran presence behind the plate” fetish, I am willing to acknowledge that basically all teams do this, so I’m sticking with Getz as “most pointless.”
If not Treanor, who?
Pena had one spot, and I think they wanted Lucas May to take the other spot, but he was playing abysmally. Perez and Pina weren’t ready. People still argue they aren’t ready. Just sign a younger free agent? I hated the signing when it happened, but the results changed my mind.
Treanor was productive, and Pena’s defense seemed to improve with him there. Eh. I think many of us are working off of a different definition of “pointless.”
My vote was Mitch. He played pretty well. He also never played. Why have a solid all-around 4th OF who never plays? At least Jarrod Dyson would have provided ++ defense/speed. He was there for an injury replacement—but oh wait, so was Cain.
I agree
As we all know far too well, the Royals have trotted out many, MORE pointless veteran catchers than Treanor in years past.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 18, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah...and treanor was actually sorta decent...and its not like he was blocking anyone
i just dont get the treanor hate
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed.
Treanor had a freakishly high OBP, which he’d never done before, and he was adequate defensively. His one interesting skill is fouling off pitches to lengthen his at-bats. He had like a 0.8 WAR in like 250 PA, which is not bad. Not that I want him to come back, but he did what he was asked to do.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
It's 9:10 AM
I’m doing my normal Internet surfing before starting work. I have to translate some hotel promotional brochures and do a private class with this business executive guy. He needs practice because his company got bought by some Americans.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
No prob, we're both wide awake
though I’m gonna get another cup of coffee in me before buckling down and doing this stuff.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Piña wasn't ready?
I think he’s ready and has been for a while now. He just isn’t that good. Was the consensus on this different a year ago? That’s not the way I remember it.
Anyway, I don’t know if Treanor improved Peña’s defense, but that falls into the broad category of “intangible benefits of having a veteran catcher.” I have already agreed that I’m not voting for Treanor for this very reason… so, to that extent we agree. It sounds like I’m just a little less happy about it than you are.
Probably a fair assessment.
In Manny’s defense, he improved his BB walk rate in 2011 AAA from his 2010 AA numbers, and that becomes pretty important. I think it is worth noting that his pro numbers won’t be good—though his numbers as a 24 year old in AAA aren’t all that different from a 24 year old Matt Treanor in A+.
He wasn't merely the "veteran catcher"
He was a “catcher”. The Royals only had one guy on the roster when they snatched him up at the end of ST.
Nick Swisher is handsome. Johnny Giavatella close second.
On March 28, when the Royals bought Treanor’s contract from the Rangers, Kendall was technically on the roster, although he would later be placed on the DL, retroactive to March 22. Of course, there was never any real chance he would play in 2011. But… both Peña and Piña were on the 40-man on the 28th, although Piña was optioned to Omaha earlier that week. So, technically, no, they weren’t down to one catcher when they signed Treanor. Peña and Piña were a viable if unimpressive catching tandem… or at least could have been except for the fact that neither of them is a veteran, and as I suggested above, you need a veteran catcher on every team. I don’t like it, but that’s the was it is, and someone had to go to Omaha. To fill the need for a veteran catcher, it was necessary to acquire Treanor. And that’s what happened.
We’ll see if it happens again this year. Peña or Piña could be Perez’s backup, but then we won’t have a veteran catcher. What do you think will happen?
I guess I had it figured that Pina was and is just organizational filler.
Veteran or not, Traenor was a far more viable everyday mlb catcher. (I get the point you’re making about the need for a “veteran catcher” but I actually happen to think it was a good move then to get him.) I’ll be fairly excited to see the Perez/Peña going into ST this year. In fact, I think C can be a strength for the Royals next year, with Pina being the 3rd C at Omaha.
Nick Swisher is handsome. Johnny Giavatella close second.
I’ll be fairly excited to see the Perez/Peña going into ST this year. In fact, I think C can be a strength for the Royals next year, with Pina being the 3rd C at Omaha.
I’d be fine with that.
Except, I don’t think it will happen because the organization still thinks a veteran catcher is necessary. So, I will be pleasantly surprised if those three guys remain the top three options on the catcher depth-chart. I think it is more likely that a new veteran catcher is acquired (accompanied by press releases that talk about how he’s going to be a great mentor for Perez), and either Peña or Piña will be gone by May.
Hasn't Peña qualified at this point to be the designated veteran C?
Nick Swisher is handsome. Johnny Giavatella close second.
I doubt it.
Peña has been around a while, and he’s actually starting to get old, but he has only 728 career plate appearances. Just for the sake of comparison, here are all the catchers acquired by DMGM since taking over, along with their career plate appearances at the time they were acquired:
Matt Treanor: 1,118
Jason Kendall: 8,211
Miguel Olivo: 1,898
Jason LaRue: 2,544
Most teams do this, and I don’t particularly mean to single out the current regime, since the predecessor regime felt the need to acquire guys like Benito Santiago, Paul Bako, Kelly Stinnett, etc…
BTW, in the alternate universe where I get to make personel decisions for the Royals, John Buck is the veteran catcher for 2012, and the guys listed above never wore Royal blue.
I voted Dyson.
Getz would maybe get my vote in a least favorite players poll, but he had a purpose, young-ish starting second baseman that might have an outside shot at being average. Now, if Getz is on the team NEXT year, then he’ll probably be able to get my vote.
Most pointless Royal of the last five years? I’ve got to go with Josh Anderson.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Oct 18, 2011 3:23 PM EDT reply actions
How dare you
The Ghost of Ryan Freel will come back to haunt your nightmares.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 18, 2011 3:38 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Freel’s a good call. 2009 was really a good year for pointless Royals. Jacobs, Freel, Anderson, TPJ got some ABs, plus some great pitchers.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Oct 18, 2011 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Well, what is more pointless?
Signing a still sort-of-young guy in the offseason who you knew might not make the club out of ST (and didn’t)? Or TRADING cash and a PTBNL for an old guy to come play for a month in the second half of a pointless season?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 18, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't recall who the PTBNL was or how much cash was involved with Freel.
I do recall that Anderson was paid $750,000. And, for the money, the Royals got the privilege of coaching his transition from the OF to the mound. That’s not exactly money well spent.
Frisbee Climbed Fences
And I’m pretty sure Farny still roams the K. Far from pointless.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Oct 18, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Joey Gaithright takes issue with your statement.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Oct 18, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Or Pedro Feliz.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Oct 18, 2011 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I suppose I never thought Getz had a shot at "average."
Maybe I’m not being fair. Or maybe I’m relying more on hindsight more than I ought to, but I just never saw the point. I don’t see how he was ever the best option at 2b, or ever likely to become the best option.
he wasnt ever going to be good...but average was a reasonable hope...
and he wasnt far from that this year or in 2009 whereas the savior johnny g was the definition of replacement level in his time here
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 3:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Average for Getz was absolutely possible.
I kind of think he was instructed to play for Polk points. Obviously, that is speculation, but his slugging % dropped dramatically in KC. In 2 seasons with the Royals, he hasn’t matched his doubles (18 – 12), triples (4-3), or HR (2-0) totals with the White Sox.
I think the hope was: SLG stays the same, OBP goes up. The walk rate mostly stayed the same. This year he would have needed about 15 more walks, and his CWS slugging, but he could have been a .700 OPS guy with good defense. That would be enough for average. He just tanked into a Polk zone.
Yeah. This.
Sorry, billyBbilly, but I don’t think Giavotella is the right comparison. I think Aviles was always a better option than Getz in 2011.
I guess I’ll concede that Getz could have been average, but that’s basically his ceiling, right? I suppose if he could sustain that “averageness” over his cost-controlled years, that’s something worth having. But I still that’s no more than a stopgap—whether Johnny G is ultimately the solution or not. Aviles would have worked just as well in that stopgap role in 2011, and once Johnny G came up, we transitioned into playing the new guy in order to find out whether he’s the future or just the latest stopgap. Either way, and under all of the above circumstances… I see no point to Getz at any time in 2011.
and aviles is significantly older, no?
much less likely to be a part of a good royals team which i think is/should be the goal
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Age makes no difference...
…when talking about a stopgap position player. I think it’s pretty clear from my comments so far that I didn’t expect the guy playing 2b to start the year would be starting at 2b for the foreseeable future. Either Johnny G or Colon was eventually going to get a shot. I don’t care how old 2011’s second-sacker will be in 2013 or 2014… because I don’t expect him to be on my team by then.
Or, to put it another way, I didn’t expect and don’t expect Aviles or Getz to play for a good Royals team. Ever. Under any scenario. So, regardless of age, I don’t see Getz as having a meaningfully higher chance of accomplishing that feat.
getz was a possibility if he did the average thing...
and gia/colon didnt work out…unlikely but not insanely so
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 18, 2011 11:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Getz
At what time in his time with the Royals has been either of these, therefore giving Yost and GMDM a reason to play him?
A) The most productive second baseman on the team
B) The second baseman with the most potential
Speaking of extraneous..anyone catch CJ Wilson in the cool skull cap at the WS presser?
I hate him a little bit for it….he speaks well, an articulate, earnest, and hip sonofabitch, apparently. Can’t wait for GMDM to throw big bucks at him so he can come and blow up like Banny’s old man did
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Oct 18, 2011 11:52 PM EDT reply actions





















