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Is Yu Darvish a good bet to perform in the Major Leagues?


I've been on the Darvish bandwagon for nearly two years now. While I think its quite a long shot for the Royals to acquire him in the off season, I honestly believe that doing whatever it would take to acquire him would pay off in the long run for the Royals. However most people caution against him, citing other disappointing Japanese pitchers. So I decided to delve into the dark underworld of Japanese stat keeping (No seriously, its like no one in Japan has heard of sabermetrics or stats really) to parcel out pitchers performance before they came to America and how they performed afterwords.

For the purposes of getting a decent sample, I elected to just go with those pitchers that pitched more than 50 innings in the major leagues, the players that did not make the cut were all relievers and all fringe players at best. As a perfect example one player who barely made the cut was our own Yasuhiko "Shake" Yabuta.

Star-divide

Before we get in depth here, let me add a little disclaimer. I cannot guarantee these stats are 100% accurate. The record keeping system for the Japanese stats I ended up using was eclectic and required balancing 3 spreadsheets to get all the necessary information just to calculate K/9, BB/9 and FIP. However I believe that for the most part everything is the correct values.

Second disclaimer: You can see my work here. It is still in progress. I had originally wanted to get the career numbers done before this post, but after it took me nearly 20 minutes just to wrangle Hideo Nomo's career numbers out, I decided to go ahead and post my observations and provide the complete career numbers later.

 

So what do the numbers tell us?

Firstly that there are definitive tiers of pitching coming from Japan. The Low tier is made up of bad, usually old players past their prime looking for a decent paycheck. Sometimes this includes players whose very presence on a major league roster seems to make no sense (Why hello there Mac Suzuki). These pitchers, unsurprisingly tend to continue to suck once in the majors. The lowest FIP posted in this group belongs to Masao Kida, who managed to put up a 4.3 FIP in under 100 innings. Not exactly lighting the world on fire.

Then there is the Mid tier, a more eclectic bunch, this group has players both young and old, some who seemed washed up only to revitalize their careers in the majors, while others came over and flopped. This group gave us everything from Takashi Saito(2.65 FIP) and Koji Uehara(3.07 FIP) to Kei Igawa(6.19! FIP) and Yabuta(5.46 FIP). Essentially grabbing a pitcher from this group is a relative crapshoot.

And finally the High tier guys, the players who are brought over to be stars. and boy, is this an eclectic bunch. It seems that the one constant they share is strange quirks. Sasaki was forced back to Japan due to being a womanizer, Otsuka apparently clashed hard with Rangers ownership enough to potentially have been blacklisted from baseball, Okajima despite success is currently at AAA potentially in part because of his "gloomy" nature, Daisuke has had some well publicized struggles and Irabu clashed with Yankee's management over conditioning.

So what does this mean about Darvish?

Good question. At first glance, its bad. For the most part the players who have had the most success have all been relievers. Some players, like Nomo, Kuroda and Matsuzaka have maintained basically a league average or slightly better FIP over multiple years. However most of the starters either became relievers or flopped. So that doesn't bode well for Darvish long term.

However Darvish has a lot of positive qualities to help offset this.

He's younger than everyone else on the list, he's thrown fewer innings at this stage of his career than almost everyone else on the list (why hello again Mac Suzuki), and perhaps more importantly, Darvish is far and away the best pitcher on  the list. The only pitcher who comes close to posting multiple sub 2.0 FIP seasons in Japan is Sasaki, who in the three seasons pitched less than 140 innings. Darvish in three years has pitched nearly 600. Even Matsuzaka, who was possibly the most hyped Japanese prospect posted FIPs of 2.95, 2.56 and 2.50 his last three years in Japan. Again while pitching fewer innings than Darvish did.

So what can we expect from Darvish?

The biggest factor Japanese pitchers seem to struggle with is how patient American hitters are. 17 of the 22 imports saw their BB/9 increase, in most cases dramatically. Most also saw their K/9 decrease, in most cases by about 20%. The one rate that didn't show a lot of change(and which I forgot to include I'm now realizing), was HR/9 In most cases in was stable or just a few points off.

So what would we expect from Darvish then?

Well first lets increase his walks, last season he had a minuscule 1.36. I'd say we can comfortably double that to 2.7. Then we can decrease his strikeouts by about 20% leaving him with about 9 K/9. Finally over the course of a 200 inning season we can probably give him about 10HR, we'd expect an increase due to the new league, but also a dampening from Kauffman. Lets go with 15, though I think that might be a bit high. Toss that all together and you pop out with about a 3.15 FIP.

So how good is that?

To give you an idea, last season Felix Hernandez had a 3.13 FIP, Tim Lincecum had a 3.17.

So why Yu?

Because we can and because this is probably the Royal's only chance to get a real bonifide game changing ACE without giving up talent in return.

The Royals have money this season. If we take GMDM's words at face value, then the Royals had about a $40 million surplus in payroll this season. With the contracts on the books, the Royals should have about a $30 million surplus the next 2-3 years. It's not farfetched to expect the Royals to take a chunk of that money they saved this year and put it towards Darvish. Will a $25 million posting fee get him? Maybe. Could we sign him to a $75/5 year contract? Possibly. But the fact remains that if the Royals want the best available starter this off season, they probably need to look overseas.

Comment 26 comments  |  11 recs  | 

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Nice work

I, too, am in favor of low-balling the Darvish posting fee at something like $25-30m. It can’t hurt to try. And if we somehow win the auction and can’t make a deal with him, nobody else can buy him for another year, right? That would at least keep him out of enemy hands in 2012.

"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."

by Juancho on Oct 27, 2011 6:40 AM EDT reply actions  

very cool post.

"On the last day of your life, don't forget to die."

- David Berman

by Crooow on Oct 27, 2011 11:02 AM EDT reply actions  

How much guaranteed money would you give for a top pitching prospect?

Because that’s really what Darvish is. Japan’s Pacific League is generally referred to as being somewhere in the AA-AAA range in terms of overall performance level of the players. So Darvish is a pitcher with very highly regarded tools who has performed well at the AA-AAA level. So he’s a top pitching prospect. And most top pitching prospects fail to become even average MLB SP’s. Unsurprisingly, most Japanese pitchers moving to the majors have failed as well.

Given all of that, does it really make sense for the Royals to spend $100M ($25M posting fee and a 5/$75M contract) on a player who is completely unproven against this level of competition and who is in a group of pitchers (prospects) that usually fail? Can a team with very limited resources afford a gamble of this magnitude?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 27, 2011 11:05 AM EDT reply actions  

Is there a MLE calculator anywhere for pitching stats?

I’ve only seen them for conversion of offensive production. It would be interesting to plug Darvish’s stats in to something like that. It would also be interesting to compare the calculator’s methodology with RoyalPug’s.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Oct 27, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting numbers

After reading this, I’m much more pro-Yu than before. I think the posting fee is gonna be ridiculously high, but if we get him for a $30 million posting fee and $75MM over 5 years, I’d be okay with it. Anything more than that, and I still think we should wait to spend that kind of money next year, though.

by Loose Seal on Oct 27, 2011 11:06 AM EDT reply actions  

Love the piece.

I’m firmly in the ‘get Darvish’ camp for a lot of the reasons you posted, and thanks for doing the tedious Japanese/US stat stuff.

I’m afraid the posting fee is going to be more, though. Maybe not; if he’s asking for 5/75 the higher salary demand puts downward pressure on the amount of the posting fee; even a $25 million posting fee results in a $20 million anual salary, a $50 million post would turn him into a 25 million a year picher. Not sure how much more a team would gamble on someone who hasn’t pitched here. If he fits in the Felix Hernandez-Tim Lincecum class, and there’s compelling evidence he may very well be, then I’m all for it. But he sort of HAS to be that, or they will be strapped and in a financial strait-jacket if he’s much less.

My guess is that the Royals will post, as much to show the rest of the league that they’re ‘serious’, or whatever the message is that GMDM is trying to send, but it won’t be enough.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Oct 27, 2011 11:07 AM EDT reply actions  

I'm glad the market isn't going to allow Moore to make this mistake

I don’t think he’d put up a $35M posting fee. Someone will put up that much or more. Someone else will have the opportunity to re-do Matsuzaka. The Yankees and Red Sox can afford that kind of mistake. The Royals can’t.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 27, 2011 11:54 AM EDT reply actions  

I really don't know

It’s hard to say where I’d draw the line. Where does the potential reward outweigh the risk (to the Royals?) I’m not sure. A total of $100M over 5 years is too much. I would certainly do a $15M posting fee plus a 3/30 plus a team option or two (possibly vesting options). But that of course is unrealistically low. That isn’t my ceiling, but I’d be comfortable with it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 27, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Strasburg got $15.1 million over 3.5 years when he signed. It does seem ridiculous that Yu is gonna command 7 times that (30 for his team and 75 for himself). Amazing what happens when you have 32 teams bidding on you instead of just one.

by Loose Seal on Oct 27, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

May also make a difference

That he’s playing at what’s considered to be a AAA level league rather than college.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 27, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some/many of those players are of AAA quality. But a great many of them are AA or worse.

And a handful of MLB quality. So I think it is fair to say (and is the majority opinion) that Japan’s Pacific League is somewhere between AA and AAA quality.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Oct 27, 2011 5:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is still higher

than college level.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Oct 28, 2011 12:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

$100 million + for a prospect?!

Hey, I love Yu’s potential as well, but there is a VERY short list of pitchers who are (or even have been) worth investing that much money in. Nearly every Japanese pitcher has had some injury or durability problems once they got here, and even if you deem that a coincidence, pitchers just get injured more often than hitters.

I would be much more willing to invest $100 million in a fairly young power hitter (like Prince Fielder) than virtually any pitcher, especially an as yet unproven prospect.

In the MLB, and even more so with bloggers, we all want the next big thing. Right now, prospects, who used to be under valued, have become overvalued. The Royals are in a position to take advantage of this if they are willing.

"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance

by KHAZAD on Oct 28, 2011 1:40 AM EDT reply actions  

by...

…trading them?

How can you be sure that prospects won’t be more overvalued next year?

"On the last day of your life, don't forget to die."

- David Berman

by Crooow on Oct 31, 2011 2:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Matsuzaka always struck out a good amount of batters as a Red Sock

But the walks did him in.

Darvish has always walked fewer batters, so there might be reason to think that he’d make a better transition to the majors.

by ams5661 on Oct 28, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

NPB began using a new ball this season

According to this article:

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=15379

And it seems to be depressing home runs! More not to like!

by ams5661 on Oct 31, 2011 9:42 AM EDT reply actions  

The ball has always been different from the MLB ball.

IIRC, the NPB ball is (or at least was) slightly smaller than the MLB ball. So are the ballparks, BTW.

I would expect that bigger MLB parks helps pitchers coming over maintain their HR/9 rate.

I would also think coming to a league with a different ball messes with pitchers more than hitters. Bigger (even by a tiny amount) would seem to be easier to hit… but could also have some effect on aerodynamics that might somehow help a pitcher.

by kcemigre on Nov 3, 2011 8:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have heard that the bigger MLB ball has been a problem for many Japanese pitchers

They have reported that it is hard for them to get the feel for a curve, slider, and change with a bigger ball because it fits in their (often smaller) hands differently. The biggest problem is pitchers who rely on a splitter. There have been Japanese pitcher, like Yabuta, who relied on the splitter as their out pitch, but they couldn’t quite get their index and middle finger around the MLB ball quite right. They can do it, but it doesn’t feel right and either can’t control the pitch or can’t get the right movement on it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 3, 2011 9:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Why is it that Japanese players are allowed to go directly to free agency?

…and IFA’s and domestic players enter the league under years of team control?

I guess if i ever paid attention to incoming Japanese players’ contracts I would have known this already. Im guessing some type of reciprocity agreement between the two countries…..then I would ask why then they are eligible for ROY awards…

by dooblay on Nov 2, 2011 11:35 AM EDT reply actions  

There is a sort of reciprocity between NPB and MLB, but...

…Japanese players do come to MLB with the same service time rules as everyone else. However, the teams and players can always modify those things in negotiation. So, it isn’t uncommon for an established Japanese ballplayer (who has more leverage than you average Latin American free agent) to negotiate a deal that gives him a quicker path to free agency.

by kcemigre on Nov 3, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

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