Confirmed: Dave Eiland Is Our New Pitching Coach
From the article (posted at 11:09 last night):
"I want all of my starters to still be on the mound when they play, ‘Take Me Out to the Ballgame’ for the seventh-inning stretch," Eiland said. "You do watch pitch counts, but we’re going to be of the mind-set that we’re pitching into the seventh and beyond."
...Does this mean we're going all Nolan Ryan/TX Rangers in our pitching philosophy?
"It just felt right," he said. "The conversations we had, we were on the same page with a lot of things. This is a team that’s going to make some noise as we move forward in the next year or two."
...It's nice to have someone around who's excited about our team's future. Whatever that means.
"He answered all the criteria that I was looking for," manager Ned Yost said. "He has a great knowledge of pitching mechanics. He’s very well-prepared in terms of formulating game plans."
Specifically, Yost wanted a pitching coach who had spent extended time in the majors with mediocre stuff — believing such experience sharpened a candidate’s attention to mechanics, preparation and detail.
This is fine---to a point. What does it say about his ability to communicate and inspire? In other words, how exactly does this make him a good coach. Sure, the ability to empathize is implied---as well as perhaps the ability to communicate with mediocre pitchers. But what about communicating with pitchers who have good stuff?
Eiland spent five years as a minor-league pitching coach in the Yankees’ organization before becoming their big-league pitching coach. That followed a 10-year playing career in which he was 12-27 with a 5.74 ERA for the Yankees, Padres and Devil Rays.
...Confirmed on hiring a mediocre former big league pitcher.
Finally, I'm most concerned about getting a coach who preaches pitching to contact. From what I've observed watching the game and thinking about pitching coaches, the best---meaning Dave Duncan, Mike Maddux, Leo Mazzone, etc.---all tell their pitchers to trust their stuff and not be afraid of contact.
Other thoughts? Is this a good hire? Will he bring out the best in guys like Duffy, Hochevar, etc.?
My overall thesis on the Eiland hiring is this: This is the hire that makes or breaks Dayton Moore's term as GM. Despite the great drafts and highly-rated farm system, as well as the on-the-field success of the major league club's offense this season, the job Eiland does determines whether Moore's contract is renewed. You have to have on-the-field success with your drafted pitchers, or your farm system must be judged a failure in the end. - TL
7 months ago
timlacy
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Comments
A lot of the stuff you say is fine
..but the hiring of a pitching coach will never, EVER be the “make-or-break” hire of a GM. How well the pitching performs will be a function of how much talent they have and how well they perform. The pitching coach may have a small effect…but pitching succeeds based on talent and the ability to stay healthy. It wasn’t that long ago that McClure was seen as a genius for turning Gil Meche’s career around, Joakim Soria and some other minor pitching successes….did he all of a sudden lose his touch and start to suck? No…the pitching talent just got worse.
Baseball is about the players playing well, not coaches coaching well. Doesn’t mean this is a bad hire or anything, but it’s not going to turn the team around or anything.
Killing time until time kills me
I think you're wrong.
Although I generally agree that a major league pitching coach hire is not usually a make-or-break proposition, in this particular case I disagree. It’s time for our ML level to start performing up to the hype of the minor league system. Pitching is the currency of the realm. I give Eiland 3 years to show the minor league progress, or the Moore realm is over. We should see noticeable improvement over the next few years, and year 3 will be it. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
You are assuming that the pitching coach is going to be a crucial factor in whether pitching prospects succeed
I disagree wholeheartedly. I think pitching coaches can have an impact, but for the most part, it will be about the talent of the pitchers. Whether pitching prospects succeed or not may have a lot to do with Moore’s future in KC, but McClure, Eiland or anyone else will have little to do with that.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Oct 27, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Pitching Coaches Who Make a Difference: Exhibit A
Dave Duncan. When pitchers go to the Cardinals, they often end up better than they were before. One pitcher called working under Duncan like being a pitcher’s “finishing school.”
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Exhibit B
Bud Black. Look at the strength of the Padres pitching since Black became involved with the Padres at the major league level.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
he's not really a good example...their pitchign has been good since petco
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Oct 27, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Exhibit B-modified
How about Mike Maddux in TX? He seems to have helped quite a bit over the last two (or is it three?) years.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
He was credited with the Angels when they won it all
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Oct 27, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm willing to take...
…park adjustments into account, but I’m with you in that Black had a reputation that preceded his manager position.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
It's amazing what good or bad pitching will do to a pitching coach's reputation
When the Royals had good pitching (Greinke, Meche, Bannister pitching well, along with a good bullpen), Bob McClure got rave reviews from the fans, posters on this site, the media and analysts like Rany. With Greinke, Meche and Bannister gone and the talent level in the rotation very low, suddenly McClure is a bad pitching coach who must be fired.
For most pitching coaches (but not all), their reputation comes from how talented their pitchers are.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions
Truth be told, I still...
…think McClure could work. I was somewhat surprised to see him fired. In fact, this is why I think this pitching coach thing will have consequences for the larger GMDM regime. By firing McClure, Moore put some of his eggs in a particular basket. – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Exhibit C
Larry Rothschild. Well-respected in the game for helping average pitchers harness their talent.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Sometimes they help. Sometimes they hurt. Often their effect is minor
In reality, we really have little idea how good these coaches are or how much they’ve helped or hurt their pitchers. Sure, Mazzone and Duncan have great reputations as very good pitching coaches, but they look like outliers. Few pitching coaches have a particular reputaiton. They are just…there.
Given that, does it make any sense to say that the crucial element in the success or failure of Royals pitching prospects will be their major league pitching coach? Yeah, I don’t think so.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2011 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions
This is how all of our pitchers will look

Best Farm System EVER.....
by tiquanunderwear on Oct 27, 2011 10:46 AM EDT reply actions
Stressed?
Or do you believe all of our minor league pitchers will be traded to the Devil Rays—-a franchise that looks like it’ll be belly up in the next year or so? – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
No haha
It just looks odd to me, the way he is pithing that is
Best Farm System EVER.....
by tiquanunderwear on Oct 27, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
The question is this:...
…Is this the form Eiland would coach? …Hard to say.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Maybe we can...
…get one of the Pinstripe Alley bloggers (i.e. jscape2000 or Travis G) to comment on Eiland’s coaching strengths and weaknesses for us? – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Where's jadedeed?
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Oct 27, 2011 4:03 PM EDT up reply actions
???
I see the sarcasm alert, but she/he is not listed as a contributor there? …I’m not one of the cool kids on this joke.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
some noteable troll-ness
even some NSFW images posted (IIRC)
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Oct 27, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions
No, that wasn't him.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Oct 31, 2011 1:34 AM EDT up reply actions
What would some fans know if a pitching coach's strengths or weaknesses?
We have a lot of knowledgeable Royals fans here and we could only make weak guesses at Bob McClure’s strengths and weaknesses. All I saw (or have read from any source) is guesses.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Oct 27, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Then why have this website/blog?
What’s the point of RR if fans either (a) know nothing or (b) have something interesting to say? What about sabermetrics before it was adopted by front offices? Indeed, sabermetrics is about using history to predict the future. Is that mere guessing, or is it informed discussion? Are you saying that all pitching coaches do is psychological, and therefore either (a) unmeasurable or (b) useless?
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I would think that statistical analysis might...
…reveal some interesting trends about pitchers who worked under Eiland. Do you disagree? And isn’t that information available to fans?
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
erratum: ...
…“…or (b) have nothing interesting to say?”
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Wait...
When did Sabermetrics get adopted by the Royals front office?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Oct 27, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Huh?
What’s the point of RR if fans either (a) know nothing or (b) have something interesting to say?
Did I say that fans (1) know nothing or (b) have nothing interesting to say? Of course not. What I said was that there’s no reason to believe that fans know something meaningful about this subject. Fans can know a lot and say lots of interesting things. But what do we fans know about how good a given pitching or hitting coach is? Do we know how they interact with players? Do we know how much the players trust them and follow their advice? Do we know how much good or bad performances are about the coach helping, hurting or failing to help players? Of course not. Now that doesn’t stop us from saying that a given pitching or hitting coach is good or bad, but is’all guesswork and horseshit.
What about sabermetrics before it was adopted by front offices? Indeed, sabermetrics is about using history to predict the future. Is that mere guessing, or is it informed discussion?
That “history” is data. And we don’t have data for hitting and pitching coaches. Without data, you’re left with mere guessing.
Are you saying that all pitching coaches do is psychological, and therefore either (a) unmeasurable or (b) useless?
Certainly not. I would think that what pitching coaches do is usually more about helping their pitchers with nuts and bolts, like mechanics, teaching/improving pitches, pitch selection, etc. And I don’t think pitching coaches are valueless. But I don’t think they are the crucial element to any player’s success. I think they help a little here and there. So there are good, bad and neutral pitching coaches out there. But with very few exceptions, we really have no idea which ones are which. We don’t have the information necessary to come up with anything more than guesses.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Oct 28, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions
















