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Your new CBA! now with

  1. A cap on international spending
  2. A declaration that drafted players may only sign minor-league deals
  3. A 75% tax on teams going 5% overslot for draft picks
  4. some tinkering with the luxary tax
  5. A giant middle finger to the Royals ever competing again. Thanks Bud!

6 months ago Kcroyalrumble_tiny BHWick 231 comments 0 recs  | 

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Jeff Passan
https://twitter.com/#!/JeffPassan

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

D'oh
There is a “competitive balance lottery” that awards lowest-revenue and smallest-market teams extra draft picks. There will be six draft picks immediately after the first round given out via lottery to teams with 10 lowest revenues, 10 smallest markets. From an MLB/MLBPA release: “A club’s odds of winning the lottery will be based on its prior season’s winning percentage.” For the teams that don’t get one of those six picks, they will be entered in another lottery open for all teams w/ 6 picks after 2nd round.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Just in time for the Royals to start winning a little and thus screw them out of a decent chance to win the lottery

I’m sorry but a lottery for draft picks is an incredibly stupid idea. If you want to help competitive balance by giving out extra draft picks, fine. But just award the picks; don’t make a stupid game out of it, where some teams that really need the picks won’t get them.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 22, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions  

The lottery, right or wrong, is to mimize the reward for tanking.

If losing an extra few games only gets you a slight increase in lottery success, you’re less likely to do it than if losing gets you a sure pick.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:03 PM EST up reply actions  

So it’s a per pick tax, not an overall tax?

by WURoyal on Nov 22, 2011 1:36 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

I believe it's a tax on the overage of the draft pool.

After the 10th round, the money will not count against the pool unless a pick is signed for more than $100,000

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

And only the amount over $100,000 is counted toward the draft pool.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Major League Baseball

Now with more Willie Bloomquist™s

by ams5661 on Nov 22, 2011 1:46 PM EST reply actions  

Too soon to say

that it’s a giant middle finger to the Royals.

1) There will be an angle to work this new system. The Royals just need to be one of the first teams to figure that out.

2) The Royals have already successfully stocked the farm system (even if it’s not the greatest in the history of whatever) so we aren’t in as bad a position as a team like Houston, that’s needs to start rebuilding now.

I definitely like the restriction on Major League Deals for draftees. I’m not sure about the lotteries.

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by sfeldkamp on Nov 22, 2011 1:47 PM EST reply actions  

if you're Dayton Moore

how long does it take to adjust to the new CBA undercutting your entire organization building strategy? DM doesn’t exactly seem like the type that can adjust to that sort of change easily.

it’s gonna be really ugly in a few years. Essentially this team has to win soon or else they won’t win for decades.

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2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV

by BHWick on Nov 22, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions  

But he's a super scout!®

Which is surely to his advantage now.

Being high on the kids as everyone else and just outbidding them is easy. Finding a future star that no-one else does and signing them for slot is where he needs to go.

Time to put that reputation to the test.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 22, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

1) I don’t think it so easy to say that there will definitely be an angle for small market teams to “work this new system.” This system disadvantages small market teams, period. It won’t be catastrophic, but it’s a step in the wrong direction.

2) In order for a small market team like the Royals to remain competitive, they’ll have to continually re-stock their minor league system. To the extent that the new CBA makes that harder to do, it hurts the Royals going forward.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 22, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps it won't be catastrophic...

But I think it will be bad. Hopefully, it will be bad enough that small and mid-market teams lobby to go back to something closer to the old system in 5 years.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

It takes a market inefficiency which likely would have gradually decreased over time due to others taking advantage of it and completely blows it up. Sure the golden goose would have laid smaller and smaller eggs each year, but this CBA slaughters that goose.

And the very small caps on international spending are even more draconian. That has long been an area where teams can spend some millions to acquire some high ceiling lottery tickets. Another goose slaughtered.

Basically this CBA takes a couple avenues for small market teams to spend relatively small amounts of money (compared to overall organizational spending) to help build up their talent and destroys them. That’s bad for small market teams, no matter how you slice it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 23, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions  

x

Draft – Teams with top picks can spend a lot, teams with bottom picks can’t – that’s good for small market teams. In addition, if all picks will sign for less (hard to tell for sure if that will happen), that is better for small market teams.

LA – Agreed that the level spending cap for all teams seems too harsh (but consider if they had a level spending cap for free agents – we’d consider that a good thing, right?). A graduated system like in the draft would be preferable, I think (with worse teams allowed to spend more on LA signings). But if the LA cap is all just a setup for an international draft, then it’s basically a moot point.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 23, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Teams with top picks can spend a lot, teams with bottom picks can’t – that’s good for small market teams

No. All teams have to stay in the slot. Now the slots for worse performing teams will have higher dollar values, so on average worse teams are going to be spending more than better teams, but they still can’t go after that over slot talent. Also, small market team does not necessarily equal teams with top picks. For instance, if the Royals start contending, they won’t have top picks anymore, so they won’t even have the benefit of a higher draft cap.

Agreed that the level spending cap for all teams seems too harsh (but consider if they had a level spending cap for free agents – we’d consider that a good thing, right?).

Yes, we’d consider caps on FA spending a good thing for small market teams because the Royals really can’t afford to compete on that. But they can afford to compete on LA FA’s because they aren’t anywhere near as expensive.

In short, MLB has capped affordable spending and left no cap on the really expensive stuff that small market teams can’t really afford.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 23, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

You can go for over slot talent

So long as you go under slot in subsequent rounds.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

So going after better talent means also giving up better talent.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 24, 2011 8:38 AM EST up reply actions  

I'll rephrase
Teams with top picks can spend more than teams with bottom picks Teams with top picks can spend a lot, teams with bottom picks can’t – that’s good for small market teams

How much more they can spend is certainly an issue, but being in line with past slot values seems like a good start.

You can’t have your cake and eat it too (without an overall salary cap): if the Royals become contenders soon, they won’t be able to draft the top talent. Is the claim that they should be able to do both? And if the Royals can do both, then why won’t Boston/NY/Philly? Only armed with more money than the Royals.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 23, 2011 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

The CBA slaughters the goose

Because the goose was probably going to turn rabid and attack us before too long.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I LOVE analogy battles on blogs

They’re kind of like rap battles for baseball dorks.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 23, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, that's what people miss

The two biggest “enemies” that Tea Party members small market fans irrationally lash out at at Selig, who is a mere figurehead in these negotiations, and Boras, who was probably vehemently against the CBA. It sucks for the Royals (and, believe it or not, other small market teams), although it isn’t clear right now how the small market owners actually thought about this and disagreed with it.

Making Selig the sole, or even primary punching bag is laughable, though. This was stupid on the part of baseball, selfish on the part of labor, but they both played a part in the worst aspects of this new CBA.

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 22, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

I honestly don't understand why this would hurt small market teams

It hopefully ends the practice of overspending in order to win better talent in the later rounds (now that talent won’t cost as much and will be drafted earlier), but I don’t see why that practice favors small market teams. I know some of the smaller markets were using that strategy to accumulate talent, but the big market teams can do the same thing. And they have more money to do it with.

If anything, I think this helps small market teams because they’ll get the same talent (assuming teams draft well), and they save money. And that $4M of savings is a bigger deal to small market teams than it is to large market teams.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

You apparently haven't been reading much about this.

1. International free agents will be looking at similar bonus money from every interested team. So their choice will now be based upon non-monetary factors. (Ex. $1.5 million to sign with the Royals or $1.5 million to sign with the Yankees)

2. Multi-sport athletes would be more likely to choose college under a football scholarship or another sport. The fact is, they want to go play that sport in college for many reasons, and only a lot of money can change that. (Ex. Josh Bell and Bubba Starling)

3. High school kids who would really like to go to college (again, for many reasons) will be less likely to be drawn away from college because teams cannot offer them $8 or $9 million to sign.

Because these players are usually really really talented and because small market teams tend to spend more time picking early in the draft, it affects small market teams adversely.

There’s also a more general effect. It’s the strategy that small market teams have been using to acquire talent. Overspending. Now, they cannot do this, but big market teams still have the same incentives for signing big names. And unless it’s a really big name signing for a lot of money, the team that the FA is leaving will not get a compensation pick.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Point 1 is the only one that hurts small market teams disproportionately, and it’s a small effect.

Multi-sport athletes will just be riskier to draft. The teams at the top of the draft will have the best shot to sign them, but they don’t have to draft them. If anything, this advantages the high-picking teams because they’re the only ones with enough money to sign them, and if the top picks pass, the player leaves the MLB pool.

As for highschool players, I suspect they’ll take $4M to not go to college. The reason they were doing college before was because they thought they’d get more money if they went to college and were drafted by another team. There’s not extra money on the other side of school with this CBA.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

$4 million is still more than you can get playing college football (at least until the SEC starts really dishing out money!)

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure

You take the $4 million, and then if you flop or get hurt, you spend $100,000 of that cash going to college.

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by Juancho on Nov 23, 2011 1:09 AM EST up reply actions  

There will be less money in the draft, so multi-sport athletes will be more difficult to sign. But that hurts big market teams just as much as it hurts small market teams. There’s no bias there.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

eh

Draft order is based on won-loss record, and there is a pretty good relationship between revenue and number of wins.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

But that doesn't have much to do with multi-sport athletes

The teams at the top of the draft will be the only ones with enough money to draw top multi-sport athletes away from football or basketball, so if they decide to pass on a multi-sport athlete, that will mean nobody can sign him. If anything, this change gives an advantage to the teams at the top of the draft because they have an opportunity to draft a tough-sign high-ceiling player, and if they decline, they don’t have to worry about another team picking him up.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

It means the small market team cannot sign the most talented player in the draft

which unquestionably hurts that small market team.

If the small market team is considering drafting a two-sport player at the top of the draft, it is because it considers him the best talent available. If the team cannot go over slot to sign him and buy him out of his college commitment in the other sport, that team loses him either by taking a less talented player or taking him and getting nothing. The small market team could care less that another team cannot sign that player because it lost the player it wanted.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Multi-sport athletes, just like other draftees

are going to have to adjust to the new reality of the MLB draft. They aren’t going to get as much guaranteed money as before. Just like the 2011 NFL first rounders. They got “screwed” by the new restrictions (look at Cam Newton’s deal as compared to Sam Bradford’s). But, it’s still a ton of money, and with the slotting, they know that the team that drafts them has offered as much as they can. They just have to decide whether that’s enough to keep them away from college. I think in the overwhelming majority of cases, it still will be.

Like I’ve said elsewhere, I still think Starling would have taken $4M to skip football at Nebraska, as long as he knew that was the most he was going to get. If you think you can get $7M in an unfettered system, though, then that’s the number you hold out for.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 6:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Some will take the money, some will not

For those that do not take the money, it adversely impacts more small market teams than big market teams because they tend to pick earlier in the draft.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 6:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think that's quite right
It means the small market team cannot sign the most talented player in the draft

Let’s pretend it’s Starling, and the Royals know that he won’t sign for the max offer of $4M, so they pass. They might have missed the best talent, but so did everybody else. The Royals still get the next best talent, and they’re no worse off relative to the rest of the teams.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

This

If the new CBA makes baseball signing bonuses noncompetitive, it just takes those players out of the MLB population.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 10:09 PM EST up reply actions  

which results in the small market team not getting the high upside player it really wanted

That team could care less that another team did not get the player either — it lost the player it thought was the best talent.

Under the current system, that small market team can get that player by offering a few million more.

How is the small market team not in a better position under the old system (in which it gets the player it most valued) than under the new system (in which it has to settle for a less desirable player)?

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's how I view it

The top picks/palyers are worth (for instance)
$8M, 7, 6, 5, 4, 3 for #1 through 6. So if the top player plays some other sport (which I don’t really believe, but that’s another argument), then the first team loses $1M in value, but so does team #2, 3, 4, and 5. So team #1 is no worse off than the teams behind it.

I guess if you think that keeping the top player in baseball only costs, say, $3M but the drop in value to the next player is much more than $3M, then this hurts the teams at the top of the draft.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 23, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

But the team drafting first...

…has $11.5M to work with.

If that top player really is worth $8M, they can choose to pay him that number, and live with $3.5M in rounds two through ten. That’s a real decision to make if the #1 guy is really worth it.

They can also decide to exceed the cap by $575k, knowing that it will cost them an extra $431k in tax, but not any draft picks.

Also, we don’t yet know if the new CBA has any multi-sport athlete exception of any sort…

by kcemigre on Nov 23, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

But the talent distribution is not linear

Baseball America usually notes that how the talent clumps together — there might be one or two real special players at the top, a group of a few elite players, a group of a few more near elite players, and then by the middle of their first round board, there is not much separation between the rest of the guys rated as lower first round talent (and really the top of the next round).

If a player in the one of the top clumps is a two-sport star who decides to go to college instead, it means one less top clump talent available for the teams picking in the first half of the draft (who tend to be lower revenue teams). This hurts them in comparison to the current system. I agree that the Yankess or other teams picking lower in the round will not see much of an effect.

by Gopherballs on Nov 23, 2011 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

But if there's a big gap between Starling and the next best guy

Then you lose the advantage of a high pick. You get someone roughly as good as the people behind you got.

What if #1 in the draft is a Alex Rodriguez-level prospect and #2 is Christian Colon…if you aren’t allowed to pay enough to get the #1 guy and have to settle for #2, everyone else benefits from the fact that their later pick’s value is much closer to the value of the #1 pick.

by PopeSoria on Nov 22, 2011 10:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that's an important point to consider

Though I would think it’s hard to determine how big of (and consistent of) and effect it would have.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Bingo

Under the old system, the small market team could get that player for a relatively small investment. Under the new system, they cannot. It reduces the talent available at the top of the draft, which more times than not affects teams with lower payrolls.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 10:53 PM EST up reply actions  

It isn't a hard slot for each pick.

If the #1 guy is worth it, you spend what it takes and have less available for your second-round pick.

If the difference between #1 and #2 is as big as you posit, that guy you take in the second round isn’t going to cost that much anyway.

by kcemigre on Nov 23, 2011 12:31 AM EST up reply actions  

this also makes the assumption that small market teams

will always be drafting at the top of the draft…

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by averagegatsby on Nov 22, 2011 7:26 PM EST up reply actions  

It's still a choice for them

Very, very large amounts of money now or 4 years being paid nothing while going to class and making very very large amounts of money for the NCAA.

He’d still be a complete idiot to choose college.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

You're forgetting...

“Bang hot chicks all the time.”

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:00 PM EST up reply actions  

They're not surrounded by girls at all times.

And as minor leaguers with a lot of money, they’re not as high profile as the quarterback at a D1 school. Although… I’m sure they could get a good cycle going of 4 or 5 chicks who hang outside the stadium in Idaho Falls. I’m guessing those girls are mostly 6s. The college girls at his disposal would be closer to 9s.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And the chance to play for Cornhusker fans

That is a privilege in and of itself.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

You can't get a facefull of screaming from your coach just anywhere.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

well, Turner Gill seems like a nice guy....

:)

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Fair point

but Pelini’s a class all his own.

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by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2011 7:51 AM EST up reply actions  

to be fair,. Stoops only expects his guys to play hard in the second half

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 23, 2011 9:02 AM EST up reply actions  

#1 is possible but I don't think it's clear.

The latin kid is already possible getting less money at signing, signing with a team that isn’t Boston or NYY would give the kid a better chance of making the majors and in the end making more money.

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by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2011 7:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Not gonna hurt Boras that much

The top guys (typically Boras clients) will still get paid. It will be the later rounds that are squeezed out.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree

And until 5 years ago the Royals would have been one of the mob carrying pitchforks and torches to stop the evil Boras. But now they appear to be cool with him, or at least not so opposed to his very existence that they won’t do business with him.

His view of the baseball landscape is no secret. He thinks there should not be a draft at all-every amateur should be able to sign with any team. I have no idea what Bud wants to accomplish, but making these changes to thwart Boras won’t work.

by thelaundry on Nov 22, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions  

They're resigned to doing business with him

Because in 2006, Glass decided he genuinely wanted to win, and Dayton Moore convinced him that the way to go is play ball with Boras representing draftees so they don’t have to deal with Boras representing free agents.

I’m certain that the Royals are still hell-bent on paying players as little as they can get away with, and are very happy that Boras will be limited in leverage against them.

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by cmkeller on Nov 22, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

No way Boras' guys are still getting "paid"

He will push for as much money as possible, but the fact is that the best he can do is advocate for his clients that they are worth paying a 75% tax, or perhaps relinquishing a 1st round draft pick next year. This will cause his top clients to fall in the draft, and the more they fall, the less chance there is of getting that money. No $3 million bonuses in the 3rd round.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Krugerrands and spotted owl feathers.

Hysterical. Well done.

talk to me, Johnny...

by johnny4 on Nov 22, 2011 5:18 PM EST up reply actions  

yep

it’s all very stupid. At least the union has the “excuse” of narrow self-interest (for current members). Baseball is hurting itself, not just MLB, but internationally.

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 22, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Again

This helps the Royals. Any FA market will favor rich teams. Regulating the market makes the Royals more able to compete.

I understand that the Royals had been dumping a ton of money into international spending, but there was nothing stopping the Yankees from cornering that market.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Would you rather they have waited until the Yankees

were consistently destroying the smaller market teams in draft spending, in addition to veteran FA spending?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that begs the question of whether or not the Yankees would do that.

Sure, they could have, but they weren’t doing any such thing. They’ve had late first round picks for the last several years and still were not making any attempt to draft players with a high price—even players that were consensus early 1st round talents.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions  

So basically

now we’re criticizing MLB for actually looking into the future and trying to prevent possible market/revenue inequities by taking action too soon rather than too late or never?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

It goes both ways.

They (in your opinion) tried to prevent inequities before they got too bad, but they also eliminated a strategy that small market teams were using to get good. Again, I really don’t think the Yankees or Red Sox had any problem with this.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, sure they didn't have any problem with it

I’m sure if it was up to the Yankees and Red Sox, they’d have no problem eliminating the luxury tax and revenue sharing, too. When you have the most money to spend, why wouldn’t be perfectly content with as few restrictions on how you spend it as possible?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

No, I mean they didn't have a problem with small market teams overspending on amateur talent.

To them, it didn’t really because they weren’t valuing prospects the same way as small market teams were. This was why small market teams could use this strategy. Not sure where you were going with the thing about how Yankees and Red Sox would have no problem eliminating the luxury tax, etc. Of course they wouldn’t, but that’s not what the small-market strategy was.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

They didn't care about smaller market teams doing it

because if and when they decided they wanted to employ the same tactics, they knew that they could blow the small markets out of the water. Just like they can do with the veteran FA market. Now they don’t have the choice on whether they can adopt that strategy or not. I think it’s pretty clear that they would rather have the ability to do so. Just like they would rather not have to worry about the luxury tax or revenue sharing.

I would rather have MLB address this issue before it became a problem, instead of waiting until the Royals start getting outbid for the Wil Myers of future drafts by big market teams, and then having to lobby for several years (or more) for the change to come. If ever. I mean, really, if MLB hadn’t adopted the draft cap now, how would it have ever passed once more big market teams started spending big money in the draft? The MLBPA wouldn’t have been in favor. The agents would have fought even harder against it. The big market teams would have lobbied hard to keep the “spend as much as you want on the draft” system in place.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

again I agree, kcdc1
I understand that the Royals had been dumping a ton of money into international spending, but there was nothing stopping the Yankees from cornering that market.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The cap is absurdly low too

$2.9 mill. That’s less than what we paid for Elier Hernandez ALONE, no?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Noel Arguelles is just happy he defected before his 30th birthday

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 22, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I dont think it effects cuban players.

who for some reason aren’t considered, international.

by Crowncola on Nov 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

OK,

I thought I just read where it covered “latin and dominican” players. It seems in my memory that Cubans have been excluded from this group in the past…For ex, Noel’s 6.9 signing bonus was never considered the highest in KC history because he was cuban. Eliers was.

by Crowncola on Nov 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh you're right

In the past Cubans were exempted. From what I have read, Cubans under 23 will now be subject to this international cap.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 4:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Cool,

i didn’t see the link to mlbtr explaining the new rules until i made it further down the comments. The whole thing is a bummer.

by Crowncola on Nov 22, 2011 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

And it kills incentive.

I’m sure many of us have seen/read things about how Latin kids focus on baseball because that’s their only chance of making it for them and their families. With that kind of cap, teams will have to sign 1 player for their cap or split it up. If there’s only 30 Latin players getting good bonuses, I think a lot of those kids will just get a job because they aren’t one of the best 100 players in the country at age 16. In time, there would be fewer kids gunning for that bonus, in theory.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I doubt that though

Doesn’t the NBA have hard slotting? I don’t think the infinitely small chances of making the NBA and making millions have deterred the number of poor high school kids who bank their hopes on making the NBA.

Man is not a rational creature.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Good point

But my counter would be that international basketball players have other leagues to play in that can offer them good money. Also, European basketball players may not be in the same dire situation as a Dominican kid.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

There are still way more ways to make money

In pro baseball than in all the pro basketball leagues combined.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

But I can care about poor kids in Latin America, can't I?

MLB is rolling in money. It is a multi-billion dollar per year industry. I liked that a good deal of money got spread around to poor Latin American kids every year. All of the sudden that amount of money and the number of kids (and their families) that receive it is going to drop significantly. I don’t see how that’s a good thing for those kids, their families, or Major League Baseball as a sport. Does it help some owners’ bottom lines? Probably. I really don’t care about adding 1% to some owner’s profits.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 23, 2011 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I should have felt sympathy for Hosmer the millionaire?

Getting a millionaire to the majors a year later isn’t exactly hurting him. I have sympathy when it is warranted.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 24, 2011 8:40 AM EST up reply actions  

how much make he has made isnt relevant in any way....

how would you feel if you were held back from advancement in your job for no other reason than to save the company a few bucks?…and if you say you wouldnt care, you’re full of shit

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 24, 2011 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

But in his line of work, that's part of the game

In baseball, you get your shot when your organization is ready to give you that shot. Would it have been some awful hardship for him to spend one season in AAA at his age? It’s not like he’s been suffering through a whole bunch of minor league seasons and never getting his due. And spending a year in AAA isn’t awful for a young kid like him. That is paying your dues, and not exactly in the toughest way.

So I should have had sympathy for a 21-year-old having to spend a season in AAA? That’s entirely ridiculous.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 25, 2011 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

One of the big things this may do

is push international talent to soccer or other sports.

and even national talent to other sports.

Baseball already has a problem of getting African American athletes to play baseball instead of football or basketball, this deal is going to make this quite a bit worse it seems to me.

I really hate the idea of losing talent to baseball because of less money in a part of the game which was hardly a problem to begin with.

But the union can’t allow spending cuts to current players (for good reason, admittedly), so you have to cut player salaries somehow.

On the other hand, should this raise KC’s payroll by 10mil or so each year? At least it should, but it probably won’t.

by thehopper on Nov 22, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I am sympathetic to this argument

But the fact is, there are still way more professional jobs in baseball than in football or basketball. Your choice is to take one of the 4500 or so jobs in pro baseball, or gamble that you’ll be lucky to get one of the 1500 or so jobs in the NFL (plus whatever in the AFL and CFL) or one of the 300 jobs in the NBA. And even if it depresses bonuses, $150,000 from a MLB team still beats $0 from a college football or basketball team, with a long-shot of making the pros.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

How much of an international spending cap

is just a set-up/prelude to pushing for an international draft?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

Market inefficiencies only last so long. The old system didn’t favor small-market teams; it favored teams that were smart enough to figure out the optimal strategy. The Royals were among those teams, but it wouldn’t have been long until everyone figured it out and the money got too steep for the Royals to play.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Kevin Goldstein
You know how the Royals have a great system? They did that through spending big money on the draft. Strategy now basically illegal.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 2:45 PM EST reply actions  

Not sure I'm reading this right

But it looks like the amateur spending threshold is set at $11.5 million. I don’t know how that impacts international signings, but for domestic/drafted players, that wouldn’t have changed KC’s recent drafts that much, if at all. I think they spent around $11 million in the draft this year, for instance.

Again, no idea if that threshold now includes international players or the $2.9 million cap. And it of course assumes I’m understanding the details of the new CBA correctly.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 3:03 PM EST reply actions  

Do you know if my comment above is correct?

The Yahoo article on the CBA says the draft spending threshold will be up to $11.5 million. If so, it really wouldn’t change much. But I have no idea if that number is accurate or how that relates to international signings.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like there are a lot of reports, some conflicting out there

From what I have heard the full details won’t be publicly available til the spring.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I imagine it would change opinions in a hurry if

the cap is the same amount as the highest amount KC has ever spent on the draft. And I hope that’s the case so they can still sign the Bubba Starlings and Wil Myers of the worries (and possibly get an extra draft pick to boot).

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

The main thing it will change

Is multi-sport athletes, high school athletes with a desire to go to college, and 2nd and 3rd round picks who are asking for a lot of money. Under this CBA, it makes it hard to get these guys.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

…2nd and 3rd round picks who are asking for a lot of money.

We’ll see how it works out in practice, but under this CBA those guys are now supposed to be 1st round picks. That doesn’t seem like a terribly bad thing…

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, there's only 30 first round picks.

And not every team can afford to go over slot (i.e. Mets/Dodgers)

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Sorry...

…I don’t understand your point re: the Mets/Dodger.

It does seem to me that the overall goal is to have a system in which everyone is drafted, roughly speaking, in descending order of talent.

So, that 2nd or 3rd round pick shouldn’t really be in any position to ask for more money than the guys drafted ahead of him. I mean, no one can stop him from asking, but…

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 6:01 PM EST up reply actions  

What I meant...

is that teams like the Mets and Dodgers who do not have the financial flexibility that they would like, would not take 1st round talents because they cannot sign them for slot money.

So my general point was that players still won’t be drafted in descending order of talent. Some will sneak through to the next round because of signability issues. Although, this will be at their own peril.

Seems like agents’ and MLB executives’ jobs just got harder.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I see.

In theory, the draft spending cap is going to depress signing bonuses. We shall see, of course, but that’s clearly how this is supposed to work… reduce the overall size of signing bonuses and simultaneously implement a “soft” slotting system (but one that does have real teeth—giving up future draft picks, even)… in theory, you should generally see the best talent going off the board with each pick in the draft.

I don’t know whether it will work that way, but that is quite obviously how it’s supposed to work.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 7:24 PM EST up reply actions  

that's what i was thinking

because as you’ve probably noticed when any team gets a new GM they say “we’re going to start spending on the draft.”

by 9il on Nov 22, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with this sentiment

While the Royals have no doubt been one of the best examples of exploiting the old draft system to their benefit, I have to think that eventually teams like NY and BOS would have really put some effort into doing the exact same thing. It’s already hard enough to compete for veteran FA’s with teams like that, given the cash at their disposal. With no draft and international spending cap, what was to stop the big market teams from blowing the small markets out of the water with overslot draft money, international FA signings, etc.?

And hey, maybe imposing caps at this level will be the first baby step toward a hard salary cap for MLB payroll. A fan can dream, can’t he?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah...

…and we didn’t have to wait for BOS to start doing it, either. They’ve been among the leaders in draft spending for a while now.

It does seem like it was just a matter of time before small-market teams were being outspent in the draft anyway. And, in the world where that’s happening, the limitations in the CBA actually help those teams.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Also, the details are pretty sketchy still...

…but it seems like this isn’t an across-the-board cap on draft spending. It is a form of slotting.

So, the higher you pick, the higher your draft-cap will be. That, obviously, helps the teams drafting higher and that has been the Royals for quite a while now.

Also, no one seems to be talking about it yet, but it looks like revenue sharing has improved from the small-market perspective.

Teams that surpass the luxury tax threshold of $178MM will be taxed 42% in 2012 and 50% in 2013.

Unless things change pretty dramatically, that looks like a perpetual 50% tax on the Yankees going forward…

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Also...
“Market disqualification” is an interesting part of cba. It says by 2016 top 15 markets can’t receive revenue sharing $.

That’s a Heyman Tweet. The lack of detail is kind of confusing, but presumably, if the top-15 markets stop receiving revenue sharing, the bottom-15 get more of the pie. That helps. It’s good.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I do wonder if Heyman really means to be talking about market size (as opposed to revenue), but that is exactly where things are headed if he has it right.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

This is an important piece that hasn't been mentioned enough (here or other places that I've seen)
So, the higher you pick, the higher your draft-cap will be.

It allows the worse (i.e. smaller market) teams to spend more on the draft while barring the better (i.e. richer) teams from spending as much. How it will play out is still up in the air, but that goal seems correct to me.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:23 PM EST up reply actions  

yep...we shall see how it works...

i have less of a problem with the draft cap than the LA cap…thats just going to crush baseball in LA

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 22, 2011 9:35 PM EST up reply actions  

I think the LA cap is a move toward a worldwide draft

Don’t know much about the idea of a worldwide draft, but it seems like a good thing.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

if that does happen...the royals better hire about 50 new latin american scouts...

thatd be the perfect new opportunity to find somewhat unknown players to draft in the later rounds

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 22, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions  

word is that an international draft by 2014 is virtually a done deal

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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 22, 2011 11:15 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with that

Is that poor facilities and development in LA. Without the baseball academies, you’re really getting raw, unknown quantities. MLB will have to provide some universal baseball academy.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 8:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I wonder, too.

And will teams still provide academies if their players will just get drafted away? Maybe private academies could spring up.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 23, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah

I’m a big fan of the changes. The status quo where the Pirates and the Royals were the most aggressive drafting teams wasn’t going to last. The market had figured out that draft picks were undervalued, and without some regulation, the price for top picks was going to continue to skyrocket. This will save the Royals a ton of money. It will save the Yankees money too, but the money matters more for the Royals.

Capping spending helps teams without as much money.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Capping the spending that small market teams can afford (draft and int’l FA’s) while not capping the spending that small market teams can’t afford (MLB payroll, free agents and Japanese players through the posting system) doesn’t help teams without as much money. It hurts them and only serves to increase spending disparities and competitive imbalance.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 23, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I do agree that its misplaced priorities

But overall I don’t think capping amateur talent is bad for small markets.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll wait and see how this plays out...I definitely don't like some of the things involved..but I'm not sure it's as bad as some are saying either.

Draft restrictions hurt…but it’s not like our system was built ENTIRELY on guys like Wil Myers who fell in the draft b/c of their high demands. No, we won’t be able to massively overspend in the draft anymore, but it’s not like we are going to be passed up by other teams either, like we are in the FA market. We can still scout and sign top talent, so I don’t think it’s the end of the world. It’s dumb…but I think the Royals and other small market teams can still find ways to build successful systems.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Nov 22, 2011 3:28 PM EST reply actions  

It’s dumb…but I think the Royals and other small market teams can still find ways to build successful systems.

Yes, it will just be harder now than it was before. And it has been pretty hard as it is, given the revenue and spending disparities between the large and small market teams. There was a little way that appropriately motivated and smart small market teams could help build up their minor league system. Now that way is gone. That’s a bad thing for small market teams like the Royals. It isn’t catastrophic, but it’s bad. An uneven playing field (overall) just got a little more uneven.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 22, 2011 3:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Generally agree

but would like to see what this draft threshold is and how it works. If it’s in fact $11.5 million, it shouldn’t change all that much about how KC drafts. Not too many Bryce Harper type talents out there in a given year… assuming in the new system they’d be able to even command a $9.9 million bonus or whatever Harper got.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you just talking about the first round pick?

Isn’t there an overall draft spending cap? Is it different based on draft position? Are there still slots for individual picks?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 22, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

seems like there are slot suggestion for each pick...

and then a total cap…you’re not punished for going over slot…you’re punished for going over your total cap

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 22, 2011 4:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Right

So you can go way over with the first round, so long as you go way under in subsequent rounds.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

And you can give $100,000 bonus

To anyone after round 10 without it counting against the cap

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

But is there a single hard cap or a different cap depending on draft position

If a team is earlier in the draft order, they are going to have more expensive picks, even if they stay comfortably in the slot. Does the cap take this into account?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 22, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

That's why I think

the cap ranges from $4.5-$11.5 depending on draft order. Or at least that’s what I’m guessing based on available data. Still a lot of specifics unavailable.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 4:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Different cap depending on draft position

Basically there will be slot recommendations for every pick in the first ten rounds. You can go over slot, but you can’t exceed the total of ALL your slot recommendations, or be subject to the 75% tax the first time, and forfeiture of a future first round pick with a second violation.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

that is my read

The teams with the worst records (and the highest picks each round) generally will get the highest overall cap number and the teams with the best records (and the lowest picks each round) will get the lowest overall cap number. In addition, teams with supplemental picks will extra cap room for those picks, while teams that forfeit draft picks (either through signing top free agents or exceeding the previous year’s cap) will lose the cap room associated with the forfeited picks.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is surely a very good thing for losing teams?

No more Boston spending huge like the past few years…

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 22, 2011 4:39 PM EST up reply actions  

yes and no

The “good” part is that draftees lose leverage, so the draft should more closely follow the distribution of talent. Draftees can no longer balk at signing with a losing team in order to slide down to a winning team, at least without losing a bunch of money in the process.

The “bad” part is that the losing small market teams that used to go overslot in later rounds to sign first round talent can no longer do it, so no more Wil Myers or Josh Bell.

After thinking about this for five whole minutes, I think the overall effect will be that losing teams will still get the best talent, but they will lose their ability to stockpile multiple high talent players like the Royals and especially the Pirates have done.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

…they will lose their ability to stockpile multiple high talent players like the Royals and especially the Pirates have done.

Of course, there was never anything stopping every other team in the game from doing the same thing. And, as kcbottom9th mentioned, Boston was already playing that game. How long were KC and the Bucs going to stay competitive in that market anyway? At some point, don’t the Yanks and Sox just eventually spend us out of that market? This CBA prevents that from happening by eliminating the whole thing… I’m not convinced that’s a bad thing yet.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Yankees, Red Sox, and Tigers

were the pioneers of going above slot. Selig made threats that he would punish teams that went over slot, but it did not deter the Yankees, Red Sox, and Tigers who had the finincial resources to ignore Selig’s threats. Smaller market teams complained to Selig that his threats were only helping the big market teams, so he backed off and indicated to teams that while he would still twist arms, he would not penalize teams for going over slot. At that point, some of the smaller market teams like the A’s, Rays, and Royals started to go over slot.

The Yankees and Tigers, however, generally stopped going over slot in recent years. In the most recent draft, the only high revenue teams that spent in the top ten were the Cubs (4th) and Red Sox (10th). For 2007-11, the only high revenue team in the top ten was the Red Sox (4th), with the Yankess at 11th. So even though this draft strategy has been around for over half a decade, few big revenue teams have employed it.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 5:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes, I’m aware of the history.

But I don’t see why people just assume that the Yanks are going to stay out of this market indefinitely. You’ve reminded me of another benefit of this CBA. Selig won’t have to do his “arm twisting” any more… which always had the effect of delaying amateur signings until the very last second (or slightly thereafter a la Hosmer). So, we’ll get our picks on the field quicker because of that. Also, the signing deadline moves up a month, ensuring that even the “late” signers have a chance at some playing time…

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

The same assumptions apply the other way too

The Yankees and other big market teams have known about this strategy for over five years, yet outside the Red Sox, none have fully embraced it. I would guess this is in large part because they do not have the same necessity — if the Yankees need a No. 3 Starter, they can buy one on the open market if their farm system does not have one ready and still have money to fill in other holes. If the Royals need a No. 3 Starter, they can maybe buy one, but it would leave little or no money for other holes. The Royals best way to avoid that is to stockpile the farm system, which they could do by spending an extra $1 million here and there. Also, buying free agents is less risky than speculating on an 18 year olds development, so some teams like the Yankees may just prefer to spend money on major league talent because they have a better idea of what they are getting.

At first blush, I do not think the changes are necessarily any sort of death knell for small market teams. But it definitely removes one strategy that has worked for some teams as an option.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Note that the Red Sox were 10th despite picking at the end of the draft.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if the losing team has a cap of $11.5

They can still sign Bubba Starling and Wil Myers, just not Bryce Harper and Wil Myers. I think it mostly hurts the mid-range losing teams, but not as significantly as I thought at first glance.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I think only the team with the first pick in the draft gets the $11.5 million cap

The other point is that players like Wil Myers are less likely to fall because their available bonus essentially goes down with each pick. Or if they do fall to the third round, they are unlikely to sign for third round bonus money and just go to college instead.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions  

I wonder if that will ultimately result in more college players going higher in the draft

Which could presumably change the dynamics of the draft and how teams view high school players overall.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions  

that would be my wild guess at this point

First, college players will have less leverage to re-enter the draft, so more will accept slot, making them less riskier to take.

Second, at least initially, more high school players will go to college, which after three years, will result in a better pool of college players and more college players going early in the draft.

Again, these are guesses.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

this is from Reese at MLB Bonus Baby
A. Each Club will be assigned an aggregate Signing Bonus Pool prior to each draft. For the purpose of calculating the Signing Bonus Pools, each pick in the first 10 rounds of the draft has been assigned a value. (These values will grow each year with the rate of growth of industry revenue.) A Club’s Signing Bonus Pool equals the sum of the values of that Club’s selections in the first 10 rounds of the draft. Players selected after the 10th round do not count against a Club’s Signing Bonus Pool if they receive bonuses up to $100,000. Any amounts paid in excess of $100,000 will count against the Pool.

http://www.mlbbonusbaby.com/2011/11/22/2580154/mlb-draft-reformation#storyjump

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Details are pretty fuzzy

Billy’s link above is the most comprehensive info I’ve seen on it so far

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, in regards to the draft portion, there's not anything to really like.

Just a matter of whether it turns out to be a small hindrance, or a huge one.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Nov 22, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

An uneven playing field (overall) just got a little more uneven.

What? As the team with the smallest stack of money, we should be rooting for spending caps wherever we can get them.

by kcdc1 on Nov 22, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions  

We should be rooting for spending caps on the types of spending the Royals can actually afford (the amateur draft and int’l FA’s)? While at the same time there is no such cap on the spending that the Royals can’t hope to come anywhere near the large market teams (MLB payroll, free agency, Japanese players through the posting system)?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 23, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree and would definitely like to see an MLB payroll cap, too

But, as with any political process, sometimes it has to be baby steps. I think these tidbits, while not a hard MLB salary cap, are encouraging (from MLBTR):

By 2016 the top 15 markets will be ineligible for revenue sharing.

Teams that surpass the luxury tax threshold of $178MM will be taxed 42% in 2012 and 50% in 2013.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 23, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m all in favor of more revenue sharing, but I think the above is only a small step in the right direction. And while I was once in favor of salary caps, I think more revenue sharing is preferrable to such caps for a number of reasons.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 23, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes to your last point

What is the overall revenue sharing arrangement under the new CBA? Have those details been leaked yet?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

As best I can tell...

…revenue sharing is unchanged except for the bit described above about the clubs in the fifteen larges markets being disqualified from receiving revenue sharing by 2016.

And then there’s also the luxury tax increases (also described above), which are not revenue sharing but are tangentially related to revenue sharing…

by kcemigre on Nov 23, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Quick thouhts

I am wondering if there is a loop hole for signing undrafted players to large contracts. Mr. 2 Sport Star has to have large contract to not play football. goes through draft and then signs with a team, basically becoming a FA.

I am wondering if something like the baseball academy will return.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 22, 2011 3:29 PM EST reply actions  

It will be really interesting to see what happens the first year.

Is there a Bubba Starling type player who will say “Don’t draft me until the 11th round, at which point you pay me $8M, or I won’t sign”?

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 22, 2011 9:29 PM EST up reply actions  

If MLB's goal is to make sure less talent and attention goes toward their sport....

then they wildly succeeded with this new CBA.

It’s hard to believe supposedly intelligent men agreed to these changes.

by deezle on Nov 22, 2011 3:35 PM EST reply actions  

keeping in mind that

Selig reacted to the best wildcard race in years by making so that such a race would never happen again

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2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV

by BHWick on Nov 22, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah the Cuban angle is weird.

I guess they don’t defect until they’re in their early 20s normally.

by WURoyal on Nov 22, 2011 4:15 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

So the expanded use of replay on fair/foul calls...

Does this include non-HR’s??? If so, what does that do for balls hit down the line that are called foul? Would batters and fielders have to play out any ball hit down the line that is close, regardless of the call? If not, and the umps review it and it turns out the ball was fair, what the hell happens?

Same for “trap” plays—if a catch is close to the ground, don’t you just have to run out the play if you’re a batter? What if there’s a runner on 3rd, the initial call is a trap/no-out, and the batter jogs home, but on review it looks like a good catch? Would the runner on 3rd have decided to tag anyway? If he did, would he have scored?

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 4:20 PM EST reply actions  

Playing out a foul ball isn’t really a big deal, I suppose.

Traps present a real problem, though. I don’t see how that can possibly work.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Traps will be a problem...

One mitigating factor would be that players and coaches already watch the play for themselves and have to make split second decisions based on what they see. An umpire’s call may be delayed, and probably is most of the time for purposes of making a tag or run decision. I don’t know any of this for sure, just offering it.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 5:33 PM EST up reply actions  

A baserunner does sometimes get hung up between the bags, though…

For instance, you might not have enough time to get back and tag up… and you’re not sure the ball was caught… so you hesitate between the bases. If the ump signals a trap, you run to the next base, basically relying upon the call on the field. If that call were to be reversed after a review of the tape… well, there’s a problem.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:47 PM EST up reply actions  

They'd have to put the runner back on the base in that situation.

It’ll be interesting to see but this leads to issues where the guys just keep playing regardless of what is called.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2011 8:00 AM EST up reply actions  

You assume the baserunner would have been safe if he went back to the bag.

They aren’t always. How do you make that decision after the play has been reviewed?

Full-on Hypothetical:

Bottom of the 5th, with one out, Butler takes a normal lead off of third base. The Hoz stays with a Danks cutter and sends it to short left on a looping liner. Butler takes 5-6 steps on contact before realizing that the ball is hanging up just a little bit. Juan Pierre comes racing in toward the ball, and Billy slams on the breaks.

Pierre slides at the ball and comes up with it… or did he? The third-base umpire calls a trap, and Billy chugs home. Pierre hops to his feet and soft-tosses the ball in the general direction of Pierzynski, but Billy crosses the plate ahead of the throw, which was off-line on the first-base side anyway. AJ, believing that Pierre made a clean catch immediately throws to third, thereby (potentially) forcing-out Butler. (You know he’ll do it, too, even if just to be a douche. Man, I hate Pierzynski).

On review, the “trap” is declared a “catch.”

Why isn’t Billy out in an inning-ending double play? I think he probably is. In order to alter that outcome, you have to assume that Pierre couldn’t have gotten the ball from short left to third base ahead of the Baconator, who was caught half-way home at the time.

Someone, somewhere has to make a judgment call, I suppose. But that call is going to be unfair to someone either way.

by kcemigre on Nov 23, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Yea I like the fair/foul replay

But the trap one seems like its inviting bad outcomes

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 3:34 PM EST up reply actions  

Other tidbits

Rosters can expand to 26 for day-night doubleheaders.

All players will wear the David Wright helmet in 2013, but it won’t look as ridiculous.

Baseball has adopted a non-discrimination policy for sexual orientation.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 4:32 PM EST reply actions  

Also

You can increase your international cap number through trades. So the Royals could trade say Ryan Verdugo for an additional $1 million in cap money for international signings. But you can only increase your cap by 50%.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

You can also trade comp picks

That will be distrubuted to losing teams when teams surrender picks for violating the slot rules.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 22, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Jim Callis
By my calculations, TWENTY teams went 16% or more over slot this year, which would have triggered 100% tax & loss of two 1st-rders #mlbdraft

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 4:46 PM EST reply actions  

The thing that Dayton Moore does best just got hacked to pieces

Now we just have the rest of Dayton Moore…

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Nov 22, 2011 4:56 PM EST reply actions  

And his other schtick is dead too

The “sign a player to a one year deal and trade him” thing. A player will not bring compensation now unless he played for a team all year.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 22, 2011 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Maybe with international signings

Although the trading players for cap room presents an interesting scenario there. But I really don’t think it will change the amateur draft that much if they a) have a really crappy season b) have a cap of around $11 million

Now, it will have some level of impact if they start winning. But hey, at least they’d be winning in that scenario! More seriously though, winning teams will all face the same issue in that case – although the big market teams will still clearly have more options in the FA market.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

I think we really need to see how the "slotting" on these caps works out...

…and we also need to see how the signing bonus market is affected.

There are a lot of moving pieces.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Definitely a lot to wrap your head around

I was going to run an analysis on the draft compensation and international signing rules but my skull just exploded.

by jsolo on Nov 22, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

A detail I haven't seen mentioned...

…I wonder if teams that win the “competitive balance lottery” will have their draft spending cap adjusted accordingly (i.e. to account for the fact that they have extra picks). I assume so, but who knows?

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:25 PM EST reply actions  

Each team's cap is based on the slot number associated with each of its picks

so a team with one of the supplemental picks gets the slot number for that pick added to its total cap.

by Gopherballs on Nov 22, 2011 5:34 PM EST up reply actions  

That's the way I figure it, too...

…but you haven’t actually seen a description that goes into that level of detail, have you?

I sure haven’t.

by kcemigre on Nov 22, 2011 5:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Instead of paying big signing bonuses to get players...

Give them a minor league constactthat pays way over what a normal minor league player would make the next year. It is not a signing bonus, so its fine right?

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Nov 22, 2011 5:47 PM EST reply actions  

I thought minor league contract salaries had to be standard

But I could be wrong.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

You sure?

I was pretty sure they were standard and the only thing that made Bubba’s check different than Joe Whoever taken in the 49th round was his signing bonus.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Nov 23, 2011 8:01 AM EST up reply actions  

im not positive, but im pretty sure i read that somewhere...

but yeah, bubbas salary is the same…i dont think thats required though

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Nov 23, 2011 10:49 AM EST up reply actions  

I think it is.

Unless you you have a split contract, which is technically an MLB contract but with a specified lower salary in the minors (which will be more than the standard).

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Nov 23, 2011 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

via Passan

“One more incentive to not exceed draft cap: The 1st-round picks forfeited by those that do get tossed into a lottery for those that didn’t.”

F everything about that.. it’s essentially a circle of poverty. Especially since those picks will be used on under-slot signability picks that have no business in the 1st round, which pushes 1st round worthy players down the board, and keeps them out of the majors for years if they don’t sign in slot.

The penalty for exceeding the draft cap is punishment for teams that are trying to improve and it’s ridiculous.

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV

by BHWick on Nov 22, 2011 6:11 PM EST reply actions  

Yes.

What some people are forgetting is that agents are still going to have their clients holding out for as much money as possible. They’re not going to care about the team’s draft strategy, which may involve spreading the money out. And if necessary, agents will tell their clients that they’re worth a team getting slammed with a 75% luxury tax or possibly losing picks.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

And teams will then tell the agents that it's a different world now

And the agents will have to tell a kid that $4M just isn’t enough (because it used to be $7M) and they should go to college and risk bad performance, injury, etc. The only thing that has changed is the “as much money as possible” figure that agents advise their clients on.

2011 NFL first round picks got “screwed” (compared to the 2010 and prior first rounders) by the new NFL draft pick compensation rules, too. They still get paid a ton of money. Markets change. The players either adjust or go do something else.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 22, 2011 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I really liked the draft pick compensation for losing an unsigned draftee

Curious they got rid of that. I thought it was a great hammer for teams to use.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Well some reports say its still there

I don’t know what to believe anymore.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

One thing I KNOW is good.

The new signing deadline. Thank goodness.

by hawkinscm87 on Nov 22, 2011 6:18 PM EST reply actions  

What is the new signing deadline?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 22, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I think I read it is either July 18 or July 28

depending on when the All-Star game is

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.

by Matt Klaassen on Nov 22, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions  

so the players can get some minor league time

after Selig holds up their signing to the end due to the cost of the signing

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV

by BHWick on Nov 23, 2011 1:03 AM EST up reply actions  

Selig doesn’t have any reason to hold up signings anymore. He got his signing bonus limitations.

by kcemigre on Nov 23, 2011 7:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank god

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Nov 23, 2011 10:12 AM EST up reply actions  

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