Billy Butler's Growing Place in Royals History
by Freneau on Nov 25, 2011 9:00 AM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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Billy Butler, even if he never plays another game with the Royals, has become a fairly large figure in Royals history. He's not at the top level of Royal greats yet, but he's certainly reached the next tier. Butler has now played five seasons with the Royals, and in the last three he's played almost every single day. The totals are starting to add up.
Here are Butler's career stats:
| Year | G | PA | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | TB | ||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 5 Seasons | 692 | 2861 | 2572 | 311 | 764 | 185 | 3 | 74 | 373 | .297 | .360 | .458 | 120 | 1177 |
Maybe it's a quirk, maybe it's a function of being a small-market team, (maybe this isn't actually true) but the Royals haven't had many long-time players. Butler is already 20th in team history in games played. If he plays 150 games next season, he jump all the way up to 14th. Butler has already played more games in a Royal uniform than Danny Tartabull, Jermaine Dye, Steve Balboni or Willie Aikens. Next season, he'll likely pass Lou Piniella (700), Kevin Seitzer (741) Carlos Beltran (795) and Johnny Damon (803).
Butler has been a good hitter, so his place in the counting stats categories is a bit higher. He's 16th in team history in hits, 15th in total bases, 15th in homers, and 9th in doubles. And yes, he's 7th in GIDPs.
Of course, because of George Brett, Butler is unlikely to ever lead the Royals in a major offensive category. What about 2nd? Frank White has 2006 hits as a Royal, which could be tough. Butler will need a second long-term contract to get there. Butler will need 450 2Bs to pass Hal McRae, again, something he'll need a second-long-term contract to achieve. Amos Otis is at 365. If Butler plays out his current contract -- free agent in 2015 -- he could threaten Mike Sweeney in most categories.
What do you project/predict?
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Comments
Another relevant take on our beloved Royals...
I love these pieces…we know that being Royals fans is unique, but a lot of the times we don’t really know why or how…Will seems to touch a nerve, even if it is something as simple as “Butler has been a constant fixture, let’s recognize this”
I am the one who knocks.
which is correct:
A) we know that being a Royals fan is unique
B) we know that being Royals fans is unique
C) we know that Royals fans are unique
D) abandon for a better phrase and use an apostrophe with Royals’ next time
I am the one who knocks.
E)
Chen
I was born into the Purdue and Miami family, became a Jaguars fan after moving to Jacksonville and adopted the Royals as my baseball team.....All of my teams are kinda bad....
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 25, 2011 9:14 AM EST up reply actions
Grammar always screws me up...
you want to know how I learn proper grammar? you want to know my trick? seriously? it isn’t the years of college English and term papers that I have long forgot…I basically just see how Will and LaFlamme write (because I think the writing is engaging, but also obviously uses proper grammar) and I incorporate that (I don’t use that in my comments, but if I write a post, I always try to use the best grammar possible)
btw…the ellipses started as a texting thing and just kinda spilled over into my comments here
I am the one who knocks.
I have a (big) problem with ellipses too.
I use them (way) too much (it started in college). I wonder if there is an Ellipses Anonymous (or similar-named organization) that can help?
That information is somewhat classified.
Are you sure...
…ellipses are the problem you’re worried about (as opposed to parentheses)?
by WaywardSaint on Nov 25, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
ellipses...
Are the new market inefficiency…
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 26, 2011 12:50 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Life Is A
Mutual option until it isn’t.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 25, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions
A, B, and C are all correct
though B sounds a bit clunky. C means something a little different from A and B, as you’re changing the subject from “being a Royals fan” (i.e. the experience) to “Royals fans” (i.e. the people).
I would not use an apostrophe here, since in “Royals fan” the word “Royals” is an adjective, not a possessive.
One of the best guides to English grammar that I know is Practical English Usage by Michael Swan, which is a guidebook for ESL/EFL teachers. It will fill you in on how and why we do all sorts of stuff that native speakers never think about, as it comes to us naturally. Swan is a Brit, but he does include references to American when there is a difference.
The book’s not hard to understand, since in Britain you only need a three-year college degree to teach ESL, and it’s aimed at the reading level of a high-school graduate so that these folks can comprehend it.
Your using Will, LaFlamme, Matt, and Scott as models is an excellent strategy: learn by observing and then doing.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Even in the land of Leif Erikson, Royals history beckons
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
Newfoundland?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Until about two months ago,
I was unaware that Newfoundland was a British Dominion independent of Canada until 1949.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 25, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
I once met 2 Newfoundlanders in a Silver mine in Freiberg Germany...
True Story.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
by averagegatsby on Nov 25, 2011 9:32 PM EST up reply actions
Still some legacy of it
Their police force is called the Royal Newfoundland Constabulary, which is a much older organisation than the more famous RCMP.
They still have certain constitutional protections that other provinces don’t have, that were agreed when they joined. And they still speak like drunk Irish folk.
But we love them.
Edgar knows best.
They're called Newfies
and are apparently a subject of Canadian humor, sort of like Aggie jokes in Texas.
The only things I know about Newfoundland are 1) it was the first British American possession 2) they contributed a regiment to the First World War that got completely shot up on the first day of the Battle of the Somme, nearly 100% casualties 3) it’s way the hell out in the Atlantic.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
They set their time to GMT -3.30
So they are on the half hour when most of the rest of the world is on the hour.
I visit fairly often with work, and I love it. They have the same independent spirit we have out in Western Canada that has gone missing a bit in Ontario and Quebec. It’s that spirit that had standing alone as long as they did of course. Beautiful scenery, very friendly people. Very relaxed.
And yes, they get the butt of jokes for the slow way they speak and the drawl they have, but its affectionate most of the time.
Edgar knows best.
Sounds Familiar
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 26, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions
Is Trailer Park Boys set in Newfoundland?
Or is that in Nova Scotia?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions
They're basically the same thing, right?
I mean this to refer to the slow-talking drawl and weird drunken way.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 5:35 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Not much difference. Newfies are maybe a notch or two higher, but basically the same.
Edgar knows best.
Will.He.Be.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 25, 2011 5:11 PM EST up reply actions
He queue this up before he left.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 25, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
It's important to consider...
…Butler’s historical importance (already) when so many advocate that he should be a trade piece this winter (i.e. trade him instead of Gordon).
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I have advocated trading him before, but now I'm not so sure
1. He is heading into his peak years.
2. He is affordable.
3. He has (apparently) accepted his role as DH.
4. He is popular with the fans.
5. I don’t think he would bring back very much in a trade.
That information is somewhat classified.
yes, that should be foremost in the Royals mind when they set the value of their players
—MK
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 25, 2011 10:15 AM EST up reply actions
What are statistics...
…and projections but historical distillations of what a player HAS done?
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
And What He
Is likely to do.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 25, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Forgive the self-linkage,
but I took a look at Billy’s similar hitters on B-Ref to make extremely unscientific projections for the rest of his current contract, and then noted where he would end up in team history in several offensive categories if he follows his comps. He ended up around 7th in a lot of categories. Not too shabby, plus I think he will outperform the numbers his comps put up.
This is as good a place as any
to update the rankings of current Royals in all-time Win Shares (which was the stat upon which Retro’s rankings were mostly based), with 2011 totals from billjamesonline.net:
Ranking – Total Win Shares as a Royal
30. Billy Butler – 70 (tied with Al Fitzmorris and Steve Busby and just above Lou Piniella)
36. Joakim Soria – 64 (tied with Paul Schaal)
44. Alex Gordon – 56 (tied with Bo Jackson, Brian McRae, and Jose Offerman)
73. Mike Aviles – 31
98. Mitch Maier – 24
120. Bruce Chen, Melky Cabrera – 19
130. Wilson Betemit – 18
136. Jeff Francoeur – 17
142. Kyle Davies, Luke Hochevar – 16
174. Robinson Tejeda, Eric Hosmer – 13
180. Chris Getz – 12
189. Brayan Pena – 11
206. Greg Holland – 9
222. Alcides Escobar – 8
240. Salvador Perez – 7
259. Blake Wood, Matt Treanor – 6
277. Jeff Francis, Louis Coleman, Aaron Crow – 5
312. Jarrod Dyson, Mike Moustakas, Tim Collins – 4
350. Everett Teaford – 3
388. Kila Ka’aihue, Nathan Adcock, Luis Mendoza, Johnny Giavotella – 2
459. Danny Duffy, Yamaico Navarro, Jeremy Jeffress – 1
To me, Maier’s (temporary) enshrinement in the top 100 means far more even than Melky’s 201 hits.
by 2X2L on Nov 25, 2011 2:02 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
At his established pace
Butler would rise to about #23 with one more season as a Royal.
He needs 4 more years at that pace to crack the top 10, 8 more to crack the top 5.
Yes, he made it
and just barely, with his computed total of 2.5 Win Shares (including a credit of 0.1 in the pitching category) having been rounded up to 3 for the season.
That ties him with Mike Hedlund, Tom Burgmeier, Jim Wohlford, Tom Goodwin, Jeremy Affeldt, Esteban German, and Jose Guillen at 24.
Rany appreciated the comparison
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
I absolutely love the fact
That Hochevar and Kyle Davies have the same total. It furthers my opinion that they are basically the same guy with different hype.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
agreed
I'm very much interested in the process of pitching." -Brian Banister
by Hanging Brainister on Nov 27, 2011 12:35 AM EST up reply actions
And one has a designated driver.
"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth
by KeepItCopacetic on Nov 27, 2011 4:25 AM EST up reply actions
You'd think these guys would have enough sense
to call a cab. It’s not like they’re short on cash or anything.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
20 WS out of Hosmer next year
and he rises to about #70.
The Tigers have apparently non-tendered Betemit. Anyone want to bring him back as Moose insurance? With 300 PAs he probably breaks into the top 100.
Chen, Hosmer, and Frenchy are all going to break into the Top 100 next year and pass Mitch. Chen has been good for 19 WS in two years. Hochevar has 16 for his whole career. Next season ought to be about Luke’s last chance. I can’t see sticking with him any longer if there isn’t a whiff of success.
If Alex has a 20 WS season, he’ll break into the Top 30.
20 WS makes for a good season, not a huge season; it’s about as good as Melky last year.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Chen and Frenchy need only match their average total over the last three seasons to break into the top 100, while Hosmer needs to contribute about the same amount of value as he did in his rookie season, with an extra month available for the purpose.
Hochevar would need to exceed his best season to date. How likely is that? Of the ten pitchers listed for him at b-r as the most similar through age 27, only one had a season as good as Hochevar will need to have in any year after age 27 — Jason Johnson with Baltimore in 2003. The pitcher listed as the most similar to Hochevar through age 27, Jose Mesa, had six seasons with at least 9 Win Shares after age 27, when he was used exclusively as a reliever.
Moose has an outside chance, if he resembles the August and September Moose much more than the July Moose. And of course there is the fascinating question of how good Salvador Perez might be next year — he has an outside chance as well.
Just for discussions' sake
the Royals have had just 1 player in each of the last 4 seasons reach 20 Win Shares: DeJesus in 2008 (22), Greinke in 2009 (26), Butler in 2010 (20), and Gordon in 2011 (24).
Beltran did it 3 years in a row, from 2001-2003 (27, 20, and 28).
And since 2001, that’s everybody. 2001 was the last season in which the Royals had more than one player reach 20 Win Shares: Damon (26), Sweeney (26), and Dye (21).
the fact that dejesus had a season not far behind greinke's 2009 shows me how useless of a stat WS is
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
...and out comes the DeJesus hate.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
really?
historically great season only marginally better than an above average season? that doesnt seem off to you?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
It was more of a joke.
I think your irrational hatred of DeJesus is funny. It’s likely akin to how everyone else views my hatred of sandals.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
i c...well, i think sandal season might be over...they had one last hurrah thanksgiving night when it was really nice out...
getting down to 29 tonight though…thats too cold even for my feet
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
In my mind, you have the feet of a hobbit.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
it makes me feel weird and a little bit proud that you have a mental picture of my feet in your head
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
It is because you have traumatized me. Deeply.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but it's not that hard to get 20 WS
I only speculated on Hosmer and Gordon getting that many next year, which is quite possible. The Röyals’ lack of 20 WS players over the last decade is a sign of how bad they were.
WS is not my favorite stat by a long way, but it’s what Retro used in his rankings, so it’s what I used here.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Yes
as the number of Win Shares allotted to a team is tied to the number of its actual wins, which is one of the things that some folks don’t like about it, although even for stats that are not tied to actual wins and losses you’d expect results on the field to correspond to some degree with whatever talent, skills, or propensities that they attempt to measure.
But while I’ve got these numbers in front of me, I’ll mention that the Royals have had a total of 79 player-seasons of 20 or more Win Shares over their 43 years. They’ve had as many as 4 in a single year seven times — 1977, 1979, 1982, 1985, and 1987-1989, and 3 such players in 11 other seasons.
So expecting as many as 2 Royals to reach that total seems as reasonable to me as an expectation that they’ll win more games than they have lately.
on a positive note, joe nathan got 2/14 million...
much worse contract than the chen one. i thought moore was the only guy who throws guaranteed multiyear deals at mediocre, injured veterans?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 25, 2011 2:27 PM EST reply actions
or jon daniels/nolan ryan whose team just made back to back WS appearances
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 25, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions
And are about to have New TV Deal money IIRC
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 25, 2011 6:19 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in Dallas this weekend and they freaking hate CJ Wilson down here.
I don’t get it. The fans around here all want to run him out of town. They’re convinced that Feliz is going to be their #1.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 26, 2011 12:56 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I would say that you're talking about the more reactionary fans.
I know a lot of Rangers fans, and most of them like C.J. Wilson. I don’t think any rational Rangers fan views him as worth the money he’s about to make in free agency. I don’t think any rational Rangers fan views Feliz as a likely ace either. He could, however, be their #1, but that is more of a damning statement in regards to the state of their rotation.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
That's my point exactly.
No way he’s ready to be a legit #1starter. They’re totally the reactionary fans though. My dad included. He hasn’t seen the ball since kickoff.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 26, 2011 3:26 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Pinstripe Alley probably hates him even more
They are irrationally praying against the Yankees signing him.
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Nov 26, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
SBNation has given me a new home!
Am I the only one flagging this guy?
Seriously, do we have to wait for the money shot or a "F*** THE SOXXXXXX!" before we ban him? Doubleteapot… BAN HIM!!
by AlohaSox on Sep 28, 2011 10:20 PM CDT
by SandalsNoPants on Nov 27, 2011 1:04 AM EST up reply actions
I don't recall anyone saying Dayton Moore was the only bad GM in the entire game that gave out those kind of bad deals.
Killing time until time kills me
do you remember the discussion not to far back about how awesome jon daniels is?
now, he’s a bad GM? thats convenient….maybe, just maybe, all gms make dumb moves…and the fact that moore does it doesnt automatically make him an awful gm
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 25, 2011 8:40 PM EST up reply actions
Totally agree with this.
For every great signing or trade there are quite a few stinkers with most GMs it would seem. Look at Theo. Everyone thinks he’s a genius and that roster in Bahstan is a mess.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 26, 2011 12:58 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
I don't know that the Nathan signing is godawful.
Someone would have doled out that money. That someone was going to be a contender who needed to bolster their bullpen. Kansas City signing Nathan would have been awful. It’s a different signing with different contextual aspects—namely contention—to it in Arlington.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 1:06 PM EST up reply actions
44 innings of bad pitching over the past 2 years...
it was a godawful signing
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 3:56 PM EST up reply actions
all last season after missing all of 2010...
i fail to see how $14 million to a guy coming off of a replacement level season is anythign but godawful though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 3:57 PM EST up reply actions
he's also a fly ball pitcher about to see half his games played in Texas
thats the luxury of playing in a big market though, mistakes can be made. the chances seem high that nathan will be somewhat of a mistake.
It's coming off of Tommy John, though.
Not that one should bank on a pitcher recovering from Tommy John, but he wasn’t nearly as awful as you are implying.
4.28 FIP, 3.96 xFIP, 4.23 tERA, 3.25 SIERA. His K/9 was only 8.66, down from his career 9.39 average and his 10.9 average with the Twins. His K/BB was still over 3.00 (3.07) but was down significantly from his 4.19 mark in Minnesota. After his one month sabbatical from late May to late June, Nathan was much more effective with a 28/5 K/BB over 29.1 IP. His ERA (FWIW, but the game log function on BBRef doesn’t give any DIPS) was a more palatable 3.38, which was no doubt aided by his .218 BABIP from June 25th through the end of the season, but he does have a career .251 BABIP so maybe there is something about him that can keep his BABIP down. Where is Mike Fast when you need him?
I think you may be weighing the first 15.1 IP of a season in which he was likely rushed back to “close” for a “contender” a little too heavily, while ignoring a much larger body of work.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 5:25 PM EST up reply actions
i get all that....
but to pay closer money…for two years…to an old pitcher two years removed from being a good pitcher…thats bad
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 5:30 PM EST up reply actions
I probably shouldn't, but I trust Daniels to make the right move about 95% of the time.
I don’t think he would have signed Nathan to this contract if he didn’t think it would pan out. I certainly trust his judgment and his staff’s ability to assess potential free agents more than mine or yours.
If he didn’t think that he could reasonably budget for this deal, didn’t think this was the best signing for their needs (in this case moving Feliz to the rotation presumably instead of signing C.J. WIlson to a much more reckless contract), and didn’t think it would work out, he wouldn’t have done it.
Again, it wouldn’t work for the Royals, but that doesn’t mean it won’t work for the Rangers.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 5:51 PM EST up reply actions
I dont know if this is great or sad for the organization.
Its great that were seeing theoretically an All Time Great Royal play but at the same time its sad that Butler is ALREADY in that category.
-Kool Aid drinking Cassel Believer-
Buffalo W (0-1) @Indianapolis W (3-2) Denver W (4-5) @Jets W
@Detroit W (0-2) @Oakland L (3-3) @New England L(5-5) Green Bay L
@San Diego L (1-2) San Diego W (4-3) Pittsburgh W Oakland W
Minnesota W (2-2) Miami W (4-4) @Chicago W @Denver W
If Butler stays with the Royals for another 10 years
and gets a solid line-up around him for the majority of those years, I think he will could threaten some of Brett’s Royals records for career HRs (317 – Butler needs 244 more) and doubles (665 – Butler needs 480 more). I also think he’ll compete for a couple batting titles, and could compete for the Royals single season HR record (36). I’m bullish on Billy, but I don’t see any reason why not to be.
by Loose Seal on Nov 25, 2011 3:15 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
You do realize that the probability of any of those things happening is close to 0.
For Butler to pass Brett in HR for instance he would have to hit 25 home runs a year for the next decade. He’s never hst 25 in his career. Batting titles is slightly more probable.
I agree with this. I am bullish on Billy too.
My intuition says he comes close to Brett’s numbers,but my past experience says no way.
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 25, 2011 10:04 PM EST up reply actions
Doesn't Billy's body type project for him to break down faster than others.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
by averagegatsby on Nov 25, 2011 11:08 PM EST up reply actions
Hasn't the "solid line-up around him" argument been disproved?
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 25, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
Yes - i shouldn't have included that
Perhaps a good lineup could increase the # of plate appearances a guy could get, but yeah, otherwise that stats don’t care about the lineup quality.
A good lineup around him would help in the RBI and runs scored categories
which lots of people still take seriously. Hitting ahead of Hosmer for the next few years will mean very few intentional walks and more chances to get hits.
However, more interleague play will lead to fewer PAs for a full-time DH like Billy.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Butler's been good for such a long time (Royally speaking)
That we sort of forget about him. I think he has a chance to be a sleeper pick for a big season next year. Hitting 25-30 HR next year wouldn’t surprise me.
He Is The
Definition of taken for granted. I even do it.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 25, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions
Every year Billy is going to give you about
.300/.370/.470 with about twenty homers and forty doubles. That is not bad. And if he lays off the Baconators and the 30-packs, he might do even better.
If I were Dayton I’d try to extend Billy for about two more years, since he’s going to fall off the cliff after about age 31.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
I Think The
Best case is to keep him through 2014, than trade him the year after his peak to an NL team. We’ll need to play him at 1B some to make this work, but Hos will need the rest sometimes. He can DH on rest days.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
why would we need to trade him to an NL team?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 25, 2011 5:29 PM EST up reply actions
NL....why?
Unless you have insider info that the NL is going to adopt the DH rule, then that would be a bad idea.
Honestly, if Butler is still producing when his contract runs out and won’t cost a lot of money, I’d like to see him get another contract. Challenge those records, Country Breakfast!
He'd Have More
Value to a NL team, playing a position. At that point in his career, a full time DH might not be as valuable.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 26, 2011 1:51 AM EST up reply actions
a bad 1b isnt really more valuable than a DH...
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 2:48 AM EST up reply actions
I'm Talking Perception
Not reality.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 26, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
Would love to see Butler get into the Top 5 of alot of offensive categories only to get
knocked back out by whichever young stud signs a contract. Even so that kind of production should get him into the Royals Hall of Fame.
I doubt that he’d bring much back in a trade due to his defensive limitations so hanging onto him while he plays out this current contract wouldn’t be the worst thing in the world.
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
100 HR would break Mike Sweeney's team record of 83 HR also
http://www.progressiveboink.com/archive/sweeney/3.htm
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
I'm Confident He
Wll hit 20+ HR’s for the next 4 years.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 26, 2011 1:55 AM EST up reply actions
Billy Butler: HOF
I just love the perspective between different organizations, it’s absolutely fascinating. And hell yeah, Billy Butler could be an All Time great Royal, but what other team even can you discuss their current players as being all time greats ? I just find it funny
by McBomination on Nov 25, 2011 11:35 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Um
Cardinals (Pujols)
Brewers (Braun & Fielder)
Detroit (Verlander)
Marlins (H.Ramirez)
Nationals/Expos (Zimmerman)
Rangers (Young)
Rays (Longoria)
Mariners (F.Hernandez, Ichiro)
Phillies (Howard)
White Sox (Konerko)
Braves (C.Jones)
I can't forget ... but I can't remember what.
i was thinking the same thing....so i looked it up....
the only ones of those guys that are top 5 in career WAR for their franchise are ichiro, longo, pujols and hanley ramirez
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 26, 2011 2:50 AM EST up reply actions
It's not very hard to be an all-time great Royal
compared to most other teams. When Mike Aviles is the 73rd best player in your team’s history, three good seasons will put you in the top fifty.
We only have one Hall-of-Famer. Carlos Beltrán might be the second one, and I think he counts as a Royal based on time served, but half of his stats were racked up for other teams.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Looking only at expansion teams since 1960
each of the following players ranks higher in career WAR among position players for a franchise they played for in 2011 than Billy Butler currently does on the Royals’ all-time list:
David Wright, Carlos Beltran, Jose Reyes, Angel Pagan (Mets), Hanley Ramirez (Marlins), Ryan Zimmerman (Nationals), Hunter Pence, Michael Bourne (Astros), Ryan Braun, Prince Fielder, Corey Hart (Brewers), Justin Upton, Stephen Drew, Chris Young, Miguel Montero, Ryan Roberts (Diamondbacks), Todd Helton, Troy Tulowitzki, Carlos Gonzalez, Chris Ianetta, Seth Smith, Dexter Fowler (Rockies), Evan Longoria, B.J. Upton, Ben Zobrist, Matthew Joyce, Johnny Damon, Casey Kotchman (Rays), Jose Bautista, Aaron Hill (Blue Jays), Howie Kendrick, Torii Hunter (Angels), Ichiro Suzuki, Franklin Gutierrez (Mariners), Michael Young, Ian Kinsler, Josh Hamilton, Nelson Cruz (Rangers), and Alex Gordon (Royals).
I probably missed somebody, because I was doing this all by eye. In any case, the answer to the original question:
what other team even can you discuss their current players as being all time greats
for 2011 is: “All of the expansion teams since 1960, except the Padres,” if Billy Butler is our baseline for an all-time great. The Padres haven’t had anyone on their list of career WAR leaders among position players since they traded Adrian Gonzalez higher than Butler is on the Royals’ list; Chase Headley isn’t very far below, however.
by 2X2L on Nov 26, 2011 1:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I shouldn't have said
that was “the answer”, of course, but only “an answer”.
Looking at the older franchises, the Braves, Reds, Cardinals, Dodgers, White Sox, Indians, and A’s had a position player on their roster in 2011 ranked at least as highly as Butler on the Royals’ list. The Orioles, Tigers, and Twins had 2. The Phillies had 3, and Ryan Howard ranks the lowest of them. The Yankees and Red Sox each had 4.
Of the three who had none, the Cubs’ had one player, Aramis Ramirez, just below the Butler line, while the Pirates are taking an extended sabbatical from contention and the Giants are engaging in a radical experiments in minimal offense. The Giants have a couple of pitchers, Cain and Lincecum, who probably make the cut-off, but since I didn’t look at pitchers anywhere else let’s just leave them aside.
So, another answer to the question is: just about every team.
Are you saying that the Giants offense are trying to embody the spirit of William Carlos Williams on the offensive side of the game?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 26, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
More like the spirit of Bozo the Clown
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
Too bad the Giants
can’t take advantage of the analog of the “variable foot” for baseball offenses — with a couple of 4-out innings per game, their offense might aspire to be average.
I can't tell if the title of this post is a fat joke
I mean, I’m pretty sure it is. But then again, maybe not.
by kcdc1 on Nov 26, 2011 3:54 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Of course it's a joke.
And I’m more along the lines of it’s not very hard to be an all time great Royal. I mean Hosmer could be called that before he turns 23.
by McBomination on Nov 27, 2011 1:04 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Billy Butler's Growing Place
Montessori school.
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