Jonathan Broxton to the Royals (Pending Physical)
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 9:57 AM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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Jonathan Broxton has been signed by the Royals according to Ken Rosenthal. The bullpen seemed set for 2012, so the move seems a little weird by itself. It may just an initial trade that puts some of the 2011 bullpen pieces on the move. Depending on terms, it doesn't seem horrible on the surface.
Here is a few stats on Broxton:
| Year | Team | G | IP | K/9 | BB/9 | HR/9 | GB% | ERA | FIP | xFIP | SIERA | FB Speed |
| 2005 | Dodgers | 14 | 13.2 | 14.49 | 7.9 | 0 | 18.20% | 5.93 | 2.65 | 4.27 | 3.67 | 94.4 |
| 2006 | Dodgers | 68 | 76.1 | 11.44 | 3.89 | 0.83 | 39.20% | 2.59 | 3.13 | 3.32 | 3 | 95 |
| 2007 | Dodgers | 83 | 82 | 10.87 | 2.74 | 0.66 | 48.80% | 2.85 | 2.73 | 2.71 | 2.54 | 95.2 |
| 2008 | Dodgers | 70 | 69 | 11.48 | 3.52 | 0.26 | 44.50% | 3.13 | 2.26 | 2.9 | 2.61 | 96.3 |
| 2009 | Dodgers | 73 | 76 | 13.5 | 3.43 | 0.47 | 56.10% | 2.61 | 1.97 | 2.02 | 1.89 | 97.8 |
| 2010 | Dodgers | 64 | 62.1 | 10.54 | 4.04 | 0.58 | 46.60% | 4.04 | 3.01 | 3.2 | 2.99 | 95.3 |
| 2011 | Dodgers | 14 | 12.2 | 7.11 | 6.39 | 1.42 | 41.90% | 5.68 | 5.63 | 4.67 | 4.75 | 94.1 |
He did not pitch well in 2011. His velocity got worse as the season went on.
He eventually went on the DL for a sore right elbow. I will have to wait and see how this signing affects the team.
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Or at least the AAA rotation
Which is probably a good move. He can always go back to the pen if he sucks
by Royal Tiger on Nov 29, 2011 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
This is true...
I just wish it made Soria to the rotation more likely
Yeah, that's my thought as well
Crow to AAA for extension to rotation and Soria trade while Broxton is closer and Holland is setup, I can live with that.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 29, 2011 10:06 AM EST up reply actions
Even without a Soria trade, I'm fine with it
It’s a one-year deal. If he’s healthy, he’s got a very good track record. Clearly, the next step for the Royals is to improve the pitching, but just shifting guys from the bullpen to the rotation creates two problems: 1) they might fail in the rotation; and 2) the bullpen suddenly has major holes. Bringing in guys like Broxton addresses number 2, and that’s an important part of this team getting better.
$4 mil though?
That’s about 2 mil more than I thought he’d get…
His price entirely depends on his health, and we have no information on that
What would you have paid for him at the end of 2010?
His price should entirely depend on what others are willing to pay him
And we don’t have a time machine, if you do, Broxton is the least of our concerns.
I don't follow either of those points
And what others would pay for him depends entirely on his health. All of the MLB front offices have far more information about his health than we can. As a result, this is a particularly tough trade to analyze from the outside.
I don’t understand why we need a time machine to know what you would have paid at the end of 2010, but I’ll rephrase: what would you pay for a healthy Jonathan Broxton?
Are you assuming that they know his health?
Yes, they will do a physical. But that doesn’t mean that they’ll be able to tell for certain if he’s healthy. The Dodgers doctors haven’t been able to figure out what was wrong with Broxton’s elbow for a while now.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
I'm assuming that they know far more about his health than we do.
The uncertainty for them is far smaller than it is for us
by KSinDC on Nov 29, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, but it sounds like you are assuming that they know enough to know that this is a good deal for the Royals
You are assuming too much.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't say that
I said that it’s tough for us to judge price because we know so much less than the Royals do about the key characteristic of this player. If he’s fully healthy, he’d get considerably more than $4M, so there’s still obviously a discount for his health.
I do feel much better about going after players with injury concerns with our new training staff in place. I feel that’s an area of potential competitive advantage for the Royals.
What do you think they knew about his health before making the offer?
They hadn’t examined him yet. So what do you think they know? How do you think they know it? From their conversations with his agent?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
They have access to his medical records, right?
That seems to contain a lot of information about his health.
I assume they have access to those records
As does every other team that was interested in him and offered less than $4M. What does that tell you?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
by this logic....
we should never sign a FA b/c that means we valued him more than every other team in baseball so we’d obviously have done something wrong
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
No
Broxton is an elite reliever if fully healthy and 100%. Some seem to be saying that since the Royals know more than we do about his health, then maybe his is fully healthy and 100%. Or maybe even close to that, or that he should be soon. IF that were true, and all other teams had access to this information as well, and other teams would have offered more for this soon-to-be-great-again reliever.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:20 AM EST up reply actions
I don't see how charicaturing others' points is helpful
Obviously, if Broxton was fully healthy, he would have gotten far more than 1 year for $4M.
All of this analysis is probabilistic and depends on the evaluation of the medical staffs. The Royals staff obviously has either a different opinion or higher confidence than other teams. Unless we know what other teams were offering, we can’t know how significant those differences of opinion were.
Regardless, we have a difficult time judging the price from out here because so much of it depends on facts we don’t have access to.
by KSinDC on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Regardless, we have a difficult time judging the price from out here because so much of it depends on facts we don’t have access to.
Yes, that makes it difficult to evaluate the signing. But it’s not like we have no information. He has an elbow problem which has been difficult to diagnose and which cost him almost all of last season. And he’s on his second year of significant velocity loss. And no other team, after looking at his medical records, was willing to give him more than $4M. I think that’s enough information for me to form an opinion about the signing. It is not a perfect opinion based on perfect information though (as is true of our opinions on every transaction every team makes).
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
Ironically, this is the same flaw you were complaining about the other day
Neither DIPS nor WHIP are perfect, but it is a mistake to view them as equally flawed.
When evaluating free agents, neither the information we have regarding injured or non-injured players is perfect, but it is a mistake to view the information as equally flawed.
We have less information to evaluate this signing than most signings.
Yes, we have less information to evaluate this signing than most signings. Is there too little for us to form an opinion at all? Should you and I just not state an opinion on this signing at all?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I think I said it was a bad deal
Pointless and a likely waste of money. Too strong? If so, what is your very, very mild opinion of this signing?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
Before we hijacked this comment thread
I said:
If our doctors are right, this seems like a great way to free up our more-talented relievers to be moved to shore up the rotation.
You included a massive conditional there
If I provide the counter conditional, then it would be equally fair to say:
If our doctors are wrong, this is a complete waste of $4M, giving the Royals likely less production than they would have gotten from any one of several guys getting league minimum.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:19 PM EST up reply actions
and then we're out $4 million and held onto all of our prospects
for the real contending years
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yes, it is better than trading prospects. And this certainly isn’t any kind of catastrophe. But I don’t think it’s smart.
And I still think better things could have been done with the Broxton and Chen money, or bank and save it to spend more next year.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:30 PM EST up reply actions
Do you two actually disagree about this?
Obviously, baseball FO’s have more information than fans. The Royals were among the highest bidders, so they must be more bullish on Broxton’s health than most other teams. If they were right, Broxton will be worth much more than his $4M salary. If not, the Royals are out $4M. We’ll find out which it is in 6 months.
Yes
And I don’t like the gamble they made, given that pitcher’s history, and the Royals needs.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
I agree with that up to a point
We need to look at a lot of signings to see if the Royals have an advantage in medical evaluations. The projections will be probabilistic but the real world is binary. If the Royals think there’s an 80% chance that he recovers to full health and other teams think the chance is only 60%, the Royals are right to outbid, but even if their evaluation is right, there’s still a 20% chance he doesn’t recover and his real-world performance sucks.
We can’t really know off this one signing who was right in a case like this.
Also, to the idea that Broxton’s increase in velocity in 05-07 was natural but his decline in 09-10 was a sign of injury, can you point me to some reference on that. I looked through AL Central rotations, and I didn’t find that pitchers typically gained speed on their pitches in their early years.
You want some reference that says that pitchers in their early 20’s can improve their fastball velocity? No, I’m not going to look for that. It’s too common and obvious.
Do you have a counter-explanation for his increase in velocity in his early years in the majors? Lots and lots of bizarre, aberrationally high fastballs? And then suddenly he fell 2 mph back to his “true norm” in 2010?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
One of these days you two
are going to be responsible for crashing RR with the never-ending splitting of a split of a split of a hair.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I agree.....
Is it .0000001 or .000001? Because that decimal place can make the difference between winning and losing, between living and dying.
Or to just get it over with…Scott, you’re right, and always will be…discussion over.
That is all.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
.0000001 vs .000001
WE’RE TALKING ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE HERE!
by kcdc1 on Nov 29, 2011 12:40 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Scott, you’re right, and always will be…discussion over.
Thank you, but really, I’m not always right.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions
They just split hairs on how right McKinney is!!!
by spamiam79 on Nov 29, 2011 1:28 PM EST via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Here's what I found on fastball aging curves
http://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/comments/aging_curves_for_fastball_speeds/
I’m reading Chris Miller’s post to say that fastball speed declines every year from the early 20s onward. Is that your understanding of the aging curve for speed?
It was not my understanding that velocity decrease started in pitchers’ early 20’s. And the first thing I read under that link was:
Fascinating work by Josh Kalk. Fastball speeds increases by about 0.4% per year until age 29, then decreases by about 0.8% after age 29.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
I understood the Miller data to be using the same dataset as Kalk but screening for starting pitchers only (at least 400 batters faced) to avoid pitchers whose velocity increases as they move to the bullpen, which obviously isn’t what we’re thinking about when we think about aging curves.
Miller used the “fangraphs data” meaning the front page of a player’s stats. I think that is BIS data. It is definitely not Pitch f/x data. Kalk used Pitch f/x data. The key difference here is that the PItch f/x seperates out 4-seamers and all of the various 2-seamers. The BIS data lumps a lot of 2-seamers in with the 4-seamers (this is discussed some in the comments at the link you provided).
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I misunderstood what he meant by fangraphs data
I thought he was talking about the pitch f/x tab on fangraphs’ player pages.
In any case, do you have links to a study that uses more than a few months of data? I can’t find anything on The Book, and Fangraphs lists this as an area in need of study.
Here's a later study showing declining FB velocity
http://baseballanalysts.com/archives/2009/10/ (ctrl-F for fastball).
It looks like it also uses BIS data, like Miller’s work does. I can’t find any newer studies from Kalk backing up his early work.
Haven’t you heard about pitching prospects with a big frame adding velocity as they bulk up in their late teens and early 20’s?
In the baseballanalysts study, it appears to show a velocity peak at age 24 (of course having only MLB data means we don’t have much in the way of pre-age 23 data to plot a fuller velocity-age curve). So, on average, FB velocity peaks at 24. For Broxton, the data shows that his velocity peaked at age 25. So it doesn’t appear that his data is much off the norm (at least with regard to the ages at which his velocity increased, peaked and decreased).
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
I've read all sorts of stuff
I’ve read that pitchers usually lose velocity when they reach the pros. I’ve read that pitchers gain or lose velocity as they age. I’ve read that pitchers purposefully throw harder or less hard depending on the nature of their stuff.
I was not under the impression that pitchers typically gained velocity in their early careers. I didn’t necessarily think that they lost velocity, but if I saw a 2-mph increase at age 25 my first instinct would be that this is someone who’s throwing at closer to max effort rather than this is someone who got stronger in the offseason.
You mean the Dodgers' psychics haven't been able to figure it out, right?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions
I'm saying that what you or I would have paid for him at the end of 2010
Would only be relevant if you had a time machine.
We aren’t making decisions based on 2010 info.
What a player is ‘worth’ depends on what others are willing to pay him. If the Royals offered him $4 mil, and no one else was willing to go to $2 mil (see Guillen, Jose) this would be an obvious err in understanding the market.
I do not claim to know his current health, I do think other teams besides the Royals knew his health status, and this seems like an odd place to spend $4 mil.
You seem to think we should assume the Royals made the right decision regarding a FA, b/c they have more information than we do, I would sadly point to history that even armed with more information, they typically do not make good decisions when they overpay.
jose guillen was 5 years ago....farnsworth was 3...kendall was 2...
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
you just conveniently ignored all the good moves he's made the past couple years
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
He's made several, agreed
When he outbids the market by a considerable amount, those typically backfire.
He only overpaid for one
And that was resigning Frenchy THIS offseason. Let’s see if he lives up to the 2 years $14 mil in ’12 and ’13.
I'm not assuming anything
I’m saying that the criticism isn’t based on much because we don’t have access to the relevant facts. If somebody was saying that Broxton was a steal at this price because he’s guaranteed to return to 2-WAR form, I’d make the same criticism.
Market dictates
That’s the Market value for closers and guys with his success.
by Martin Morasch on Nov 29, 2011 11:26 AM EST up reply actions
And Saves are exactly what the Royals should not be paying for
For multiple reasons.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:27 AM EST up reply actions
Let's wait and hear what others were actually offering
Before we act like we know what the rest of the market is/was for Broxton.
The Royals have been played by agents before, and I have a feeling this could be one of those times.
It does?
Typically you come down on people who make such assumptions and engage in guesswork.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
Really?
It’s a pretty qualified statement (“seems to” / “more likely”) based on pretty conventional reasoning using facts that are well-established on here.
How would you want that statement rephrased?
I would re-phrase it as “we still have absolutely no idea if Crow is going to the rotation.” Why is it most likely that Broxton would be replacing Crow in the bullpen? Why wouldn’t he be replacing the #7 guy (perhaps Herrera)? I think the latter is more likely given that Crow to the rotation means Duffy to Omaha, and I think that is extremely unlikely. If Moore thought Duffy needed more AAA development time, why did he never send him down? If Moore thinks Crow needed a shot at the MLB rotation, why did he never give him one during the season?
I don’t see how this signing means anything for Crow at all.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:55 AM EST up reply actions
Oh I think its a pretty strong indication Crow is going to the rotation
Broxton is clearly here as the “8th inning guy.” Crow was our “8th inning guy last year”. They’ve made rumblings about making him a starter in the future. Its not hard to connect the dots there. I’m not really sure why you have such an adamant position against the possibility of this happening.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
Who do you think is the odd man out? Duffy?
That makes no sense. I think the Crow to the rotation move is unlikely given Moore’s actions and very vague, noncommittal statements about it.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
I would guess Crow begins the year in AAA
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Ok, that's not Crow to the rotation
I thought we were talking about Crow to the MLB rotation. And if it is Crow to Omaha to get stretched out to eventually go into KC’s rotation, I ask again, who is the odd man out?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
we'll cross that bridge next season
unless you think crow’s ready to start sometime this season…which goes against everything you’ve ever said about him and his need to develop a 3rd pitch
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not saying Crow is ready
I thought we were debating whether or not the Broxton signing means that it is likely that Crow will be in the KC Royals rotation in 2012.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think he'll be in the KC rotation
Maybe a few starts, but definitely not opening day.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
So what we're really talking about here is that the Broxton signing means that Crow to Omaha seems more likely
That’s more reasonable to me.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
Facebook would implode.
I would love for this to mean that Crow spends some time in Omaha starting. It’s the best thing for mission 2013 and beyond, but I don’t see Broxton signing to be a setup guy. Just like Melky signed to start in CF. DM signs FAs to start. It’s his M.O. It’s his closing tool to get them to sign in the first place. I’m convinced Jack is on the move.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Soria is trade bait
The team has a few options for closer right now and Soria has an attractive contract and track record to get a nice player in return. Crow does NOT have enough pitches for the rotation yet and have success, plus was not an impact arm in the minors. Besides the goal going into the off season was established front rotation guys, and if Melky with 1 career year gets us a solid #2 Soria and a minor league player package could get us closer to a #1.
by Martin Morasch on Nov 29, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
What is the long-term though then?
Say they trade Soria and Broxton has a great year and signs elsewhere. Who is the closer then? I’m okay with going with the young guys, but that doesn’t seem like DM’s MO.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
holland, herrera, crow if he doesnt work out starting....
chapman, etc
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, I like those guys
But does it seem like DM will turn to these young guys if we’re close to contending?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't be afraid to put the ball in Holland's hand in any game situation.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
They'll have another year of experience
If Holland is as good this year as he was last year, that’ll be two consecutive seasons of dominant pitching. He won’t feel as unproven as he does right now.
COUNT DA SAVES
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Second only in importance to RBIZZZZZZZZZ
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
BARISP FTW!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions
soria was the closer a month out of hte mexican league...
now, we werent contending then…but moore thought we had a shot im sure
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
I would think it's Holland as the long term closer.
I have to say that I’m quite disturbed that there’s no mutual option with this deal though.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not clear on the distinction here
The next stop is Spring Training. I think this trade makes it more likely that Crow will be with the starting pitchers at Spring Training. Who breaks camp as part of the 4-man rotation, I have very little idea. Who gets called up as the 5th starter, I have very little idea. What I think seems less likely as a result of this trade is Crow being in the bullpen to start the season.
The next stop is Spring Training. I think this trade makes it more likely that Crow will be with the starting pitchers at Spring Training.
Moore said months ago that Crow would get a look as a starter in ST.
Who breaks camp as part of the 4-man rotation, I have very little idea. Who gets called up as the 5th starter, I have very little idea
When you said “Crow to the rotation,” I took that to mean “Crow to the rotation.”
What I think seems less likely as a result of this trade is Crow being in the bullpen to start the season.
That’s reasonable.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:18 AM EST up reply actions
Again, I'm not clear on the distinction
But if saying “Seems to make Crow converting to starting pitcher more likely” would have avoided this whole debate, I wish I’d taken the extra second to type that.
You don't see the distinction between the Omaha rotation and the KC rotation?
I think it’s a pretty massive difference. If he’s in Omaha, he’s not displacing another pitcher, and I see displacing any of those five pitchers to be extremely unlikely. If Moore hadn’t traded for Sanchez and re-signed Chen, then I think Crow would have had a better shot at the KC rotation. But Moore went out and got those pitchers. I don’t think there is room for Crow.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there is room for Crow.
This is another argument where I’m pretty sure both parties agree, but they choose to drag it on anyway.
I’m sure we all know that it’s okay to come into ST with 6 or 7 (or more!) rotation candidates.
When he said “Crow to the rotation,” I really thought he meant Crow to the Royals rotation, and not just for a start or two as a fill-in, while he spends 95% of the season in Omaha.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I wish you'd said that
instead of you “don’t see how this signing means anything for Crow at all.”
I’m sorry that I ommitted “..at the major league level.” I thought that’s what you and I and others were talking about. I think when others were talking about sending him to the minors, they said that.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
And makeup sex?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
or at least until we get one-word-a-line comments on the right side of the page
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Yes
I’ve always wanted to see that, but never had the stamina.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
TWSS
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:32 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Can't wait to see this conversation on Royals Review TV
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I'm just pissed that I didn't get credit for breaking the story.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Sadly, it doesn't get that far.
It just gets unintelligible because the widths unify and make the thread jumble together. I believe the Chen thread got that way.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 5:41 PM EST up reply actions
I don't understand the distinction
between “Crow to the rotation” and “Crow to become starting pitcher”
I didn’t say he would go to the MLB rotation. I don’t understand why rotation doesn’t work as a synonym for starting pitcher. This seems like an exercise in nit-picking.
I've taken every statement that's not followed with "in Omaha"
to mean with the KC rotation by anyone that says Crow to the rotation. Myself included. I think it’s kinda important to distinguish this since one make a shitload more sense than the other.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
I guess I don't think as much is settled before Spring Training
I think he’ll be with the starting pitchers at the MLB camp in February, and if he pitches really well, he’ll break camp as part of the rotation. If he pitches OK, he’ll go to Omaha as a starter. If he pitches poorly, he’ll go back to the bullpen.
I just see it as extremely difficult and unlikely for him to unseat one of the five
And I don’t think it’s going to be an open tryout where how they look in ST is all that matters in making the decision.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's an open tryout for all of them
But I assume the decision on Crow is going to have to be primarily based on what they see in ST. If he looks really good, somebody else will have to get bumped. I don’t know who, but I think that will depend at least in part on how everybody else looks at ST.
At some point in the season, yes.
So there will be some other starts to go around. But would Crow get more of an opportunity than the occasional spot start as a DL fill-in? Could his Omaha performance make him look worse as a starter? Might his ST performance make them punt the whole Crow-as-starter issue altogether?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
What?
Crow will be one of the top 7 or so rotation candidates. 5 will make the rotation to start the year. The next 2-4 guys will get chances when injuries and poor performance open slots. Then attrition will happen with the new guys. There’s no point trying to figure out who will stay healthy and pitch well 5 months before the season starts.
Crow will be one of the top 7 or so rotation candidates
He will be? He might be. And he could easily pitch himself out of that top 7 in spring training. Even if he’s more talented than other SP-depth guys, the Royals might come to the conclusion that he’ll never pan out a SP and that they’d rather have his production in the bullpen immediately and going forward.
There’s no point trying to figure out who will stay healthy and pitch well 5 months before the season starts.
We also can’t assume that Crow will be a starter all season in 2012, or that he’ll make more than a few MLB starts even if he is.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
I can't tell what you're trying to argue about
I thought we were talking about what moving Crow to the rotation would mean. Now you’re saying that he might not move to the rotation. Okay, sure, he might not.
I’m talking about a couple of things. First, I’m talking about what trying Crow out in ST might mean. It might mean him going to the KC rotation, the Omaha rotation or to the KC bullpen (leaving out the possibility of him getting injured). Second, I’m talking about what might happen if he’s re-converted back to a starter and starts the season in Omaha. Even that re-conversion might lead to him making few or even no starts in KC in 2012.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think anyone is denying
Crow will probably not make many MLB starts next year.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
But I assume the decision on Crow is going to have to be primarily based on what they see in ST
That might be true, but I don’t agree. I don’t think we can assume that the Royals are compltely open minded about the Crow-to-the-KC-rotation issue. I think they already have an opinion about him as a starter. I think they are negatively disposed to it (but not entirely closed to it), as can be seen, (IMO) by how they used him in 2011. And of course, they have opinions about the other 5 pitchers going into ST. And there’s how they perform in ST. It might take a lot from Crow to force his way into the rotation.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Crow might suck as a starter
I’ve seen very reasonable analysis on here to that effect.
But I think finding a replacement for him in the bullpen makes it more likely that he gets a real shot as a starting pitcher. And if he looks really good in ST (I’m not necessarily talking stats here), I think he forces his way into the rotation.
Why is everyone assuming that the Royals won't employ the old Six-Man Rotation?
If Davies was good enough to press the issue…
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 5:42 PM EST up reply actions
I don’t think they’re set on Duffy breaking camp in the MLB rotation. And you don’t have to be one of the best 5 pitchers to spend most of the season in the MLB rotation.
This
The sense I get from them is they’re not entirely convinced on Duffy making the rotation yet.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
Why did they keep him in the rotation all season after his promotion?
If they didn’t think he should be demoted at any point, why would they think that he shouldn’t be in the rotation on Opening Day? Why has their opinion of him changed?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:15 PM EST up reply actions
Kept him in the rotation to get a look at him
And they didn’t have a ton of better options. They have more options now and have a better idea of Duffy after seeing him against MLB hitters.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
there are better options now than there were then...
maybe they wanted him to get more innings and that wasnt possible with the minor league season ending…maybe the new pitching coach sees something he doesnt like that mcclure didnt….all sorts of options
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Could be
I think he’s more of a lock for the rotation than Paulino, and quite frankly I think both of them are near locks.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:21 PM EST up reply actions
no way...
paulino was better, is older and holding duffy back for a couple months would save them money
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:22 PM EST up reply actions
You and I think Paulino was better, and will be in 2012
But does Dayton Moore think that? Who has better tools?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions
paulino
his stuff is incredible…better than duffys
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions
both can be pretty maddening though
but paulino annoys the hell out of me, so i don’t really think all that well when it comes to him
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Wait, what?
Paulino annoys you?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 5:44 PM EST up reply actions
When you are so used to epectedly bad pitching
a good starting pitcher that comes out of nowhere can really mess up your worldview. Dogs and cats living together. Mass hysteria, etc.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 5:52 PM EST up reply actions
yes, his inconsistency annoys me
he came in and showed control, and i was all pumped. then he had 5-6 starts starting in august where he was walking at least 4 guys every time.
i just want him to be on more of the time then he is, because the stuff is there.
I was being facetious
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by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:43 PM EST up reply actions
they were after paulino for a couple years...
its clear they really like his stuff
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
Sure they like his stuff, but do they like it better than Duffy's?
Does he have three better pitches than Duffy? Does Duffy have a higher ceiling? Does Duffy have better control potential than Paulino? I think there’s a good case to be made that the Royals FO likes Duffy more than Paulino both for 2012 and beyond.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
no, no, no
and i think unlikely
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
You answered no to each of those three questions? That doesn’t sound consistent.
And why do you think they like Paulino more? Because they traded essentially nothing for him? Because they’d had their eye on him for a while? They drafted and developed Duffy and everyone loves Duffy’s tools, but the Royals really don’t?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
its clear to me that they like paulino an awful lot…they threw him into the rotation after 1 relief outing…after never being successful as a starter.
paulino’s got better swing and miss stuff…similar control…more velocity.
the only thing i think duffy has on paulino is lefthandedness and youth…and thats one of the main reasons i think paulino is more likely to be in the rotation than duffy
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
After the Chen signing, Moore said they were still looking to add another SP
That should tell you that Moore doesn’t consider Duffy a lock.
So “Crow to the rotation” to you doesn’t mean Crow to the Royals rotation? When pretty much everyone talks about “the rotation,” they are talking about the major league team’s 5-pitcher rotation. “The rotation” is those five pitchers. It’s not just a general starting pitcher role.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
And by the way, I wasn't nit-picking
I was clarifying what I thought you meant, and what I was arguing against.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
That ws my point.
I didn’t want to seem like I was piling on. Just to me they’re two drastically different things.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
At the very least,
this would seem to make sense from the club control/Super Two standpoint.
(BTW, I may well be stating things that are covered in the 100s of comments that I’ve not gotten to yet. I would imagine, judging by the first 100 or so that Scott and KSinDC combined to comment about 550 times in this thread.)
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 5:31 PM EST up reply actions
300 comments later, we discovered it was all based on a misunderstanding
On a related note, I think kcdc1 and I have merged identities in many people’s minds. It’s been quite some time since Scott and I have had a protracted debate on here.
You should engage kcdc1 in a 300 comment Debate Battle Royal
to determine who has to change his username to something non-Kansas/KC/DC-related.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 6:02 PM EST up reply actions
I like what I'm hearing
On the one hand, I think it should be moderated by Scott McKinney. On the other hand, I think Scott would find it impossible to resist the urge to bait us into debating with him.
Cleveland Park
across from the Zoo.
We moved from Arlington (Glebe and 395) 3 years ago.
Where in Alexandria?
My parents live near Braddock and Beauregard.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
No. Obviously they live right by there, though.
My mom teaches kindergarten at a really poor elementary school in Fairfax County. My dad is (I may have the title wrong here, so excuse me if this is the case) the Director of Pastoral Care at an Episcopalian retirement community at Bailey’s Crossroads.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 30, 2011 12:16 AM EST up reply actions
Or Bailey's Crossing.
Whatever the name of the area is. He’s the Director at one of their two locations in Alexandria. They actually have another location that is right behind where they live off Braddock and Hampton.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 30, 2011 12:18 AM EST up reply actions
croosroads
the old circus farm so the legend goes
by BeauJackson on Nov 30, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions
That's right.
Forgot that.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 30, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions
i absolutely do confuse you two
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions
No, Crow is a BP guy.
Soria is on the move soon. Him packaged with a couple of minor league players(C.Robinson) for a top of the rotation competitor…like a Gio or someone(Oakland is starving for hitting @ 1b).
by Martin Morasch on Nov 29, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
Clint doesn't have much trade value
But I can see Soria getting dealt. Not sure it sfor an established SP though. Who trades a good SP for a closer?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
You really think that Billy Beane is going to give up three years of a cost-controlled 3 win SP
for a closer (which the A’s don’t really need) coming off a down year, a AAAA 1B/DH and another random prospect?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 11:42 AM EST up reply actions
they already have a closer too
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Who they're supposedly trading
Oakland makes little sense. They don’t value DA SAVES.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Those things have a way of working themselves out
I highly doubt all five of our starters to begin the year will toss 1000 innings and will be in our rotation in August.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
But if he's more than just a short-term DL fill-in, then someone has to go
The great Bruce Chen and his 2-year deal? Sanchez? The clearly superior Hochevar and Paulino? The real prospect with a future, Duffy? This isn’t a small issue which should be easy to deal with. Crow to the rotation means that one of those five guys gets booted. Is Moore really willing to do that? Or will he just keep Crow in Omaha all season if no spot opens up for more than a fill-in basis?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
I would guess Crow spends most of the year in AAA
He’ll come up with (a) Duffy shows he’s still not ready (b) Paulino implodes © they finally give up on Hochevar; (d) they trade Sanchez, all of which could easily happen. You don’t really think our five man rotation is set in stone and will be the five guys that start all year, do you? You’re the one always harping about 8-9 man rotations.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
Sanchez is in the last year of his deal.
I would guess he get’s extended or traded at the deadline.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
scott, you're absolutely right
every season, every team keeps the same 5 starters. nobody is ever injured, nobody is every demoted for ineffectiveness.
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Nov 29, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think you should read more comments before you chime in with silliness.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
This was all discussed. Did you actually read the comments as I suggested? We dealt with this. Not everyone was on the same page with regard to how they were suggesting Crow would be used. Move to Omaha? If so, does he only go to KC as an injury fill-in. I’m fine with that (if he proves to be a MLB-ready starter). I’m not fine with him being pushed into the Royals rotation, pushing out one of the other five (with the probable exception of Chen, but with his two-year deal, he’s locked into the rotation).
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:48 PM EST up reply actions
i think that's the most likely scenario....
with trading soria being next, trading two guys for a starter being third, and standing pat being the least likely
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:04 AM EST up reply actions
Does the quote below from ams5661 change your mind at all?
I know that Crow to the rotation is a personal bugaboo, but I think your reasoning here doesn’t make any sense. Crow is one of our highest leverage relievers. He’s been discussed repeatedly as a candidate for the rotation. We’re bringing in a new guy with a proven track record and the second highest salary in the bullpen. He’s obviously somebody we plan to use in high leverage situations. Combined with the stated willingness to move Crow to the rotation, it seems to make Crow to the rotation more likely.
It seems like the kind of thing he's been saying for months
He’s trying to sell the signing to the public. And he’s going to give Crow a look as a starter in ST. But I really, doubt he’ll move. And I really doubt this is why Broxton was signed.
And if you think Crow might very well go to the rotation, who gets booted out? Do you really think Moore is sending Duffy down after keeping him up all year after his promotion?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
I dunno
I don’t think “the public” will note to any great degree the signing of a guy like Broxton on a one year deal.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 29, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Nonetheless, Moore is going to make positive PR comments about every FA signing he makes
That’s his job.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:10 AM EST up reply actions
These comments came before the deal was agreed to
Does that make any difference to you?
Should it?
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:12 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, I think it should
The fact that we were targetting this type of player and that moving Crow to the rotation was explicitly cited as a reason for doing so should make it harder to read the comments as an after-the-fact rationalization to sell the move to fans.
I think every public comment he makes is about public relations
I don’t think that he’s just open and honest about his wants, and needs before a signing, and then switches to PR-mode after the signing.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:21 AM EST up reply actions
This isn't a criticism of Moore at all
He should be saying PR things in public. He should play his cards close to the vest and sell moves to the Facebook fans by saying what they want to hear. That doesn’t mean that everything he says is untrue.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not taking it as a criticism of DM
I’m wondering how you decide when a quote is reflective of his true beliefs (say, regarding the use of advanced stats) and when it’s pandering to unsophisticated fans (say, regarding Crow to the rotation).
In general, I think it is extremely difficult to know. But you can see if what he says is consistent with his past actions.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
You absolutely believe that Crow won't go to the rotation
I think there’s a decent chance he will.
Because you believe Crow will not go, this signing can’t possibly change the odds, and the quote below from Dayton (made before the deal was agreed to) was just blowing smoke, just like all the quotes last year about considering Crow in the rotation were blowing smoke.
I don’t think that’s the simplest explanation for the facts we have, but we’re coming from two different starting points.
whose spot is crow taking if he's in the rotation?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
I don't know and don't care
That’s why we spring training. I don’t assume that the 4th and 5th spots are locked down, and I don’t think it’s essential that Crow starts the year in KC.
Does it matter? Who knows?
As Retro points out above, there are about 4-5 things, at least two of which are likely to happen, that would open at least one rotation spot at some point in the year.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 11:44 AM EST up reply actions
he's clearly behind duffy and monty on the pecking order isnt he?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Don't think that's clear
He’s the only one of the three that’s shown that he can get MLB hitters out. Monty hasn’t even shown that he can get AAA hitters out.
That said, it really depends what happens in ST and at the start of the regular season. November pecking order doesn’t matter much.
like RoyalsRetro was saying
let’s not act as if anyone is getting “booted” at the moment. these things tend to work themselves out in spring training. injuries come up every year.
I feel much better about this trade with the new training staff
If the training staff signs off on his physical, I feel like this is a good buy-low deal. The danger here is that the injury persists and hampers his performance, but I’d be far more worried about with the old training staff than with the new one we’ve put in place.
If our doctors are right, this seems like a great way to free up our more-talented relievers to be moved to shore up the rotation.
i think something that's being overlooked is
the idea of injuries as a market inefficiency. i’m not even being sarcastic. we have some payroll flexibility, and there is potential for some serious upside here.
wait it out. see how he performs. then we can work on 350 comments, many of which were painfully petty and i admittedly refused to read, spelling out the various scenarios at hand.
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Nov 29, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
I mentioned elsewhere in this thread that medical staff is a potential sustainable competitive advantage for KC
If we can do better at identifying injuries and projecting recoveries or (less likely, it seems) speeding recoveries, we can spend more effectively and efficiently in the free agent market. And unlike the advantage of being able to take 1-year fliers on retreads, this advantage would be sustainable even once we start competing.
Depending on terms, nice upside gamble
I like it.
Who does this take off the 40 man?
SOS? Bianchi? MITCH?
not what MLBdepthcharts says...
https://twitter.com/#!/mlbdepthcharts
Is Laffey on the 40-man?
He’s worthless.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:44 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like he was planning on making a decision soon, but the Royals were not in the discussion
http://calltothepen.com/2011/11/28/2012-mlb-free-agents-jonathan-broxton-close-to-signing/
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 10:10 AM EST reply actions
I'm guessing somebody rushed in and overbid the pot
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
"overbid the pot?"
“Hey man, it’s Jin, I’ve got Broxton, open up.”
“Jin? Jin’s not here, man.”
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Or, maybe
the Royals saw that a handful of other teams thought he might be over his injury problems, and came in and made a competitive offer that will look very good if he reverts to form.
So, I'm seeing some early rumblings from people I respect that this move doesn't make sense b/c our bullpen wasn't a concern or wasn't "set."
Yet these are the same people who will tell you how fickle and unreliable relievers are and how some of our bullpen arms (Collins and Crow, to name two) weren’t nearly as good as their ERA suggests.
Those two points don’t seem to coincide to me.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Nov 29, 2011 10:11 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
When you have a good and deep pool of talented relievesrs
…you didn’t need to go out and spend millions on a free agent. Yes, some of those guys will probably have unexpectedly bad seasons next year. And some will have unexpectedly good seasons. But there are enough good arms to make for another good bullpen. This was not an area of need.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Yea, the best way to build a pen
Is to have 8-9 guys, many of which you can send to AAA if they suck. That’s exactly what the Royals have. Broxton is the kinda guy where if he sucks, the Royals are going to keep trotting him out there because they spent $4 mill on him.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
About $2 mil more than I what I'd hoped for
And too expensive for his alleged role as a set up man (also per Heyman). But I guess we need to see if Soria gets traded.
kind of agree.
Dayton always likes to have stuff in place before making a move. It seems like the case again. Someone from the pen is on the move.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 10:18 AM EST up reply actions
something more than Crow to the rotation?
Seems like that move opened up a spot in the pen.
hopefully it's two guys for a starter who's lost favor but still has potential....
something like the maybin trade last year
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:24 AM EST up reply actions
I don't really understand why $2M is too expensive for a setup man
Through his career, this guy has been good for 1 WAR / 40IP. I’d expect to pay more than $2M for that. It’s one thing if you’re saying we have cheaper options in the minors, but as an abstract matter, I don’t understand why $2M is too expensive for a setup man.
$2M isn't too expensive, $4M is
Yes, they’re paying him basically as a 1 WAR pitcher, which he should eclipse if he stays healthy. But really, they should have no trouble finding a roughly 1 WAR reliever for the league minimum. Particularly, when you have guys like Herrera who should be ready this year, or even a guy like Vertugo has the potential.
If you're saying we can get the same performance from Herrera, I basically agree
If you’re saying that we could get 1 WAR for the league minimum so we shouldn’t pay $4M for 2 WAR, I’m not sure I agree.
If he can put up 2 WAR
then I won’t complain about the deal. I probably won’t complain anyways because I happen to like Broxton and like the idea of stockpiling good arms. But 2 WAR is pretty tough to achieve for a reliever pitching 60 innings. And $4 million could go a long way towards signing a good SP candidate… a 1 year gamble on a guy like Harden.
The Royals aren't paying $4M for 2 WAR
They are paying $4M for an outside chance at 2 WAR, but a likelihood of considerably less than that.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
Why do you say that?
He’s put up 3 2-WAR seasons in his career
Because there is every reason to believe that he's no longer a 2-WAR pitcher
Do his WAR over the last two seasons not mean much to you? And you seem to be writing off his injuries and velocity loss as something which probably isn’t a problem if the Royals doctors sign off on him. It’s not that easy to examine a guy and see if he’s 100%, especially if he has an elbow problem which other doctors have had trouble diagnosing.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Do you not trust our medical staff!??!?!?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I know you’re joking, but I see all the time people make posts that assume that if a team’s doctors examine a player, then they will be able to determine how healthy the player is. It isn’t that easy.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
they know far more than you or i do though...
they can see what happened last year like we can…but then they can put their 10 years of schooling to use and look at his medical reports
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
There's no question that their examination of him will give them a lot more info than I have
My point is only that we shouldn’t assume that they’ll know if he’s healthy after examining him.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
You're awfully sure of his health status
He missed the year. His velocity was down before that. He had surgery on his elbow after rest failed to solve the problem.
Do you have more information than this as to his health status?
I've told you what I've read
But hey, maybe’s he’s fine now but for some odd reason no team was willing to offer more than $4M to him.
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by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:13 AM EST up reply actions
My working theory is that the Royals put a different probability on his return to health
If the Royals believe that there’s a greater chance that he returns to full health (or in a more complex probabilistic model, a greater chance that he returns to near-full health), they’ll value him more highly than other teams. If their training team is in fact better than other teams, this is a place where the Royals can gain a competitive advantage in the free agent market.
When you say that there’s every reason to believe that he’s no longer a 2-WAR pitcher, it suggests that you have information that the odds of him regaining full health are very low (perhaps zero). The Royals clearly believe that the odds are higher than that. Given that they have access to more information about his health and have more medical training, I give some deference to them.
We’ll never know whether the Royals are right or other teams are about Broxton’s health, but if they’re confident in their medical team, I like them pursuing deals like this. It’s one of the few places where small market teams can gain a sustainable competitive advantage in the free agent market.
by KSinDC on Nov 29, 2011 11:24 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs
We’ll never know whether the Royals are right or other teams are about Broxton’s health, but if they’re confident in their medical team, I like them pursuing deals like this.
I’d be more positive about taking such a risk if it were to fill an area of need.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:30 AM EST up reply actions
so, if soria is packaged with something else to obtain a starter....
then you’re good with it? b/c it’d indirectly be filling that need…or if crow is being developed as a starter?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Well, but this signing wasn’t necessary to do either of those things. Moore might think they are. But I don’t like saying it was a good signing, because that mistake was necessary in order for Moore to do something smart.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
if soria is packaged for a starter...possibly with another reliever...
the rotation looks pretty good…the lineup looks pretty good…and the bullpen is a big question mark
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Sounds like 2003 with a better offense?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:36 AM EST up reply actions
yep...and less limatime....
but if that does happen, the bullpen is a stupid ass place to go cheap when there’s a pretty good option out there for a minimal amount of money
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:37 AM EST up reply actions
and really...what does this signing prevent us from doing?
its a 1 year deal…our amateur spending is capped….we’re under budget for this year
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
I totally agree.
Even lumping it in with the Chen and Frenchy deals it’s really not a ton of money if you really think about it. What really has me concerned at this point is the lack of news on the Gordon extension and even the hint of him in trade rumors.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
yeah...if we make it through the offseason without a gordon extension....
its not a good offseason….
however, both butler and greinke’s extensions were signed in late january, which makes a ton of sense given that it allows moore to have a clearer picture of his budget room, his needs, etc. i may be wrong, but i dont think there was a ton of talk on either of those extensions before they were signed…i think there’s more smoke for the gordon extension than there was for the other two
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's too early to worry about no news re: Gordon extension
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
was there any pre deal chatter on either of those guys?
i feel like they both kinda came out of nowhere
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
the Greinke extension seems like it came out of nowhere
seems like there was a a little bit of talk about Butler in the run-up, but I don’t remember
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
so, there's been more talk from both sides...
regarding gordon…that leaves me hopeful
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
there was a big standoff during the greinke negotiations
greinke wanted four lawnmowers, the royals only wanted to give up two with a mutual option for a third.
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
If soria were traded, I don’t think the bullpen would be a big question mark. The Royals had a good bullpen this season, without particulary good pitching from Soria. I think this is a good bullpen even without him. Now, if Soria and a good reliever were traded, then the bullpen would have a hole to be filled. Let’s see if Moore makes that trade. I doubt he will.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:43 AM EST up reply actions
Eh, don't feel strongly either way on this one
If Soria is traded, there’s a hole in the bullpen, and signing a guy like Broxton looks more attractive.
On the other hand, the Royals could have gotten by replacing Soria with in-house options.
relying on herrera's health?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:38 AM EST up reply actions
Or Teaford or Sisk or Adcock or others in the systme or scrapheap X or someone else. And we’re talking about one bullpen spot in a non-contending season. Another year of development for pitchers in the minors and more bullpen candidates would emerge.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
sisk who's unprotected?
adcock who they want to develop into a starter?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I'm just talking about realistic options for the 7th bullpen spot
And there are many for that spot…in a non-contending season when that’s not really something you need to throw millions at.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
If Soria were traded,
then we’re not talking about the 7th bullpen spot, we’re talking about the closer role. You yourself would say with a level of certainty that Holland won’t be able to repeat his numbers next year, Herrera is an injury risk, Collins and Crow (if not moved to the rotation, Omaha or KC) pitched worse than their traditional stats suggest. Who, then, fills the closer role with any certainty at having a successful season?
Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.-Bertrand Russell
by Dr. van Strijcker on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
If Soria were traded, then we’re not talking about the 7th bullpen spot, we’re talking about the closer role.
Promote the best reliever.
You yourself would say with a level of certainty that Holland won’t be able to repeat his numbers next year, Herrera is an injury risk, Collins and Crow (if not moved to the rotation, Omaha or KC) pitched worse than their traditional stats suggest. Who, then, fills the closer role with any certainty at having a successful season?
I think one of Holland, Coleman, Wood, Herrera, etc. will pitch well next season and would make for at least a pretty good closer. Maybe a very good closer.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
What if you heard the Rays and Rangers offered 3.5 million?
We have no idea at all what goes on in this kind of negotiating. You are making it sound like he was being offered 1—2 million and the Royals came in like idiots and doubled that. There is no way to know
by LimaTime10 on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
then daniels is back to being a dumb GM again
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
It would at least make a little more sense for contending teams
For whom a single bullpen spot means more, and for whom the marginal value of a win is higher.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Isn't it what we paid Juan Cruz and Farnsy?
Seems to be about the going rate. Not that its necessarily worth it.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
But this time it was only one year.
Progress in the Process
by Royal Tiger on Nov 29, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions
5 year $55 million contract NOW!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
anyone have a good for seasoning steak fajitas?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:24 AM EST reply actions
Can't go wrong with Chili and lime.
Maybe we’re trading Soria to the Yankees for Jesus Montero?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:28 AM EST up reply actions
like chili pepper and lime juice?
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by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:29 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think I'd make chili powder the main spice on fajitas
You want cumin, chili pepper and oniony flavors.
I usually will add some granulated garlic,
maybe a few other spices, but I haven’t tried a pesto type marinade like you spelled out below. I’m more of a dry rub or straight liquid marinade guy usually. Yours is interesting.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:40 AM EST up reply actions
The best thing I learned for making fajitas is pickling onions
On stovetop or in microwave, heat up
1 cup red wine vinegar
Add
1/3 cup sugar
1/4 teaspoon salt
and stir until dissolved.
Into this put in one red onion, sliced very thinly (I also add a couple jalapenos sliced thinly) and let sit for at least an hour.
They are fantastic. I’ll make cheese and onion fajitas using them once my meat runs out.
you had me at "pickling"
“pickling” is like “breaded and fried.” Pretty tough to go wrong.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
Your heritage is shining through
I had the best pickles ever at Durham the other day.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 10:52 AM EST up reply actions
we now know your real last name:
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 10:35 PM EST up reply actions
I'll totally try this one too.
It would go really well to compliment my dry rubbed flank steak. I think the biggest thing with flank steak is to keep it sliced thin.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, slice it very thin and across the grain
Of course, we’re poor now so I usually buy skirt steak, where that technique is even more important.
Yeah.
If you can find some good ground ancho chili powder, cumin, and a little lime zest it’s good stuff. Even better if you get your hands on a chili or chipotle lime marinade. There are actually some decent ones over the counter pre made. I like flank steak for this. Sear it very hot, rest it for 10-15 minutes then slice it thin on a bias.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:36 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Combine
lots of cilantro (1/2 cup packed)
3-4 cloves garlic
3-4 scallions (white part only)
1-2 jalapenos
1/2 tsp cumin
in a food processor (or just chop it finely yourself)
Add enough vegetable oil that it comes together like pesto.
Use half of it to cover meat and marinate for at least 30 minutes. Combine the other half with juice from one lime and serve with the fajitas after cooking.
im gonna give it a shot
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:34 AM EST up reply actions
If the meat is thick (e.g. flank steak)
Jab it with a fork a bunch of times before marinating. It’ll help the flavor penetrate.
yep...its a pretty large flank steak
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
jab it with a fork?
you play with fire in the kitchen
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
no, i just don't like to jab meat with a fork for marinating
if you do that, the juices isn’t going to circulate fully when you’re cooking. i like to use a marinade injector (aka flavor syringe) to get the marinade in. you can find one for like $7-15.
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
I love these threads within the thread that sometimes happen.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
This shit was random
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:10 PM EST up reply actions
Would a marinade injector work for something like this?
It’s about the consistency of pesto
yeah...not an expert but seems like it wouldnt work...
and its too late anyways…i stabbed the shit out of this $19 flank steak…it better be good, i made a fucking mess
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Make sure you rest it for at least 10 minutes before you slice it fo sho.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
ok...whats the reasoning behind that?
and how hot should i be searing it at…this thing is fucking huge
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
if you cut right away, all the juices will run out
basically the flavor will escape. have to let it rest. this also allows for carry over cooking to occur.
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
allows juices to soak back in to meat after cooking (which gets juices going) haha. but seriously
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
Cut it into 3-4 pieces lengthwise, each about as wide as the steak is thick
And sear it on each side of those pieces. That way you can use higher temperature to sear. If you’re doing it on the stovetop, go medium-high until the oil in the pan is smoking before you put the pieces in the pan.
Also, wipe off as much of the marinade as possible before putting the meat in the pan.
oh man...learning so much today
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:08 PM EST up reply actions
I'm totally grilling tonight.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...i woke up...with nothing to do today...
and just went wandering around hyvee…and then came here to figure out how i wanted to do it…and went back to hyvee
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
Actually, until the oil is not quite smoking
When you see the first wisps of smoke coming up from the oil (you can also tell because the surface starts to do this weird shimmer thing), put the meat in.
Don’t need to use a ton of oil for this. Just enough to coat the bottom of the pan through four rotations of the pieces of meat.
I'd sear it for 4-5 minutes a side then indirect for a few.
Depends on how “done” you want it.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
Probably not
I have a set of scalpels and other precision surgical instruments that I keep on hand in my kitchen. For this recipe I would dissect each garlic clove and insert a sliver of garlic and 20-25 pieces of cilantro into each piece of meat.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
just mix a little water or broth with it
leave the majority of it to rub on the outside
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
i need to cook more often....
that whole recipe cost me like $4.12…i always thought fresh stuff was more expensive than that
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
the fajitas are spectacular....thanks....best ive ever managed to make...
and ive tried at least 10 different ways
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:15 PM EST up reply actions
i didnt know what that meant...
i just threw the onions, red, green and some jalapenos with olive oil in a pan
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well, that's good too
But next time dissolve the sugar and salt in the hot vinegar and then put the sliced onions and peppers in the solution for at least an hour and you’ll have a new record holder for best fajitas you’ve made.
Or, if I’ve misunderstood your comment, see the recipe I posed above.
i'll definitely give that a try next time
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:24 PM EST up reply actions
Jerry Crasnick is saying that the Rangers and Rays were also in on Broxton
Which makes me feel better.
So this signing both hurts the Rangers and Rays chances of making the playoffs
while pushing the Royals over the edge.
Genius!
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions 7 recs
I’m not sure how your mind goes from that news to this form of sarcasm. But it’s paying off in recs, so you’re doing something right.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Because he's turning Moore into some Machiavellian super genius
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions
Okay. If this is actually happening...
The Royals are either looking to move Soria, or put Soria in the rotation.
I think it’s more likely that they’ll move Soria for someone from the Red Sox or Blue Jays (Two teams in need of a closer), like Clay Buccholz or Brandon Morrow.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
Was just gonna ask this
What about Soria to set up? Is that not an option as well?
I would think there is more value in moving him than the others.
Doesn't make sense given the remainder of his contract
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 29, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
Which doesn't make sense?
The move to setup or trading him? When I said “moving”, I meant “trading”, not shifting him to setup. My bad on lack of clarification.
Setup
For trading as a closer his contract is a positive.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 29, 2011 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
I can see that
I guess ESPN was reporting that Broxton was brought on to be the set up guy. Seems fishy.
I would think that there's no freaking way that Boston parts with a starter.
Especially Buchholz.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:42 AM EST up reply actions
According to this royals.com article
filed at 12:01 AM today, the royals were entering the Winter meetings looking for a “veteran-type reliever that gives us a chance to shorten some games and spread some things out, especially if we’re going to look at [Aaron] Crow in the rotation.” (DM quote)
Blahh.
Y u no move Soria, Dayton?
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
Disagree with DM on this
Seems to me we already had the relievers to shorten games…
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
Three possibilities occur to me:
1) Soria trade
2) Soria to the rotation
3) Broxton as a set up guy – because DM sees us as contending. This also frees DM up to trade Holland (?), perhaps with other pieces, to get a good SP
Personally, I wish it were # 2 – but my money is on it being # 3
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
But seriously, what was his WHIP?
And FIPS.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions
I don't think this necessarily means Soria is going to the rotation/traded
DM seems to be a big believer in the “bridge” guy – Kyle Farnsworth, Juan Cruz, the week Blake Wood was good. He wants his manager on auto pilot (THREE RUN LEAD – MUST PUT IN COLEMAN OR HOLLAND IN SEVENTH, BROXTON IN EIGHTH, COLLINS AGAINST LEFTY, SORIA FOR NINTH, BLEEP, BLORP, BOOP!)
Soria also showed he wasn’t immortal last year and Broxton is insurance should Soria’s magical closer juice run out. Because you can’t turn over the closing job to a young guy, it must be a PROVEN CLOSER.
My question is why Broxton came here. I’m guessing the offers were all pretty similar, so he should either (a) want to go to a contender; or (b) go somewhere where he can pick up some saves and re-assert his value as a PROVEN CLOSER. The Royals don’t really provide (a) unless Mission 2012 is for real. They don’t provide (b) unless Soria is traded, moved to the rotation or really shits the bed. So I wonder about this from Broxton’s perspective a bit.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 10:47 AM EST reply actions 2 recs
This is why I'm all but convinced that Soria is on the move.
Why would Broxton, not sign with the Rangers if this was the case? It’s not like Joe Nathan doesn’t have injury questions that he’s dealing with too.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:51 AM EST up reply actions
That's possible,
but still it’s $4M on a 1 year deal.
@ They can’t be overpaying that much really.@
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
Maybe they promised to trade him if they're not contending?
That way he has a better chance of being on a contender in July, even if it’s not the Royals?
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 29, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
I think it's fair to not want Nedgar C. Yost to want to have to think during games.
Only bad things can come of it.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions
Soria starting makes freaking sense.
He threw a perfect game in the Mexican League, a league dominated by hitters.
If the Royals make Soria a starter (And that’s a big IF), he will have ace stuff in a league that is more pitcher-friendly than the Mexican League.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
I used to be a big "Soria to the rotation" guy
and while he might have the stuff to do it, I think there are legitimate concerns about his ability to stay healthy when starting.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
yeah...i no longer advocate it...
it made sense when we were bad and if he got hurt, it wasnt a big deal
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
Same here
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
"When we were bad"
Um, I hate to break this to you, but we’re still bad. We have some great pieces, those pieces are young, and we had a good offense last year, therefore we have hope. But we’re not at all a good team—-yet.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
by timlacy on Nov 29, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
losing soria for 12-18 months would be a bad thing now....
most think that we’ll have a chance to compete in 2013…some think 2012…
and i never said we’re a good team…i said we’re not a bad team and i think 75-80 wins isnt a bad team
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
its below average...its not bad...
and its got the potential to be more
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Oh, I don’t think it’s bad either. I just think if we lived in NYC, Boston, Atlanta, Anaheim, Minnesota, etc, we’d feel differently.
yeah...b/c i'd be an asshole
but yeah…i agree….i cant wait til we win
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:39 AM EST up reply actions
We're all assholes for sticking with this damn team.
Fuck it. I can’t help it.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Royals Fans Are
Born, not made.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions
I just wanted to...
…stomp out the illusion that we’re still not bad. …Agreed that we should trade Soria while his value is the highest—-to whomever perceives that value.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
Wait, who posted that?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions
i did...i didnt consider us bad last year and i dont expect us to be bad this upcoming year
not bad enough to risk soria being out 12-18 months…or one of the contention seasons
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 6:55 PM EST up reply actions
That was a
“wait, you didn’t initial that comment, therefore I am unable to identify who posted it” comment.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
I missed the reference too.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 29, 2011 9:10 PM EST up reply actions
I thought somebody with the initials YEP had hijacked Lacy's acount
by KSinDC on Nov 29, 2011 10:00 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Literally LOLed
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 11:43 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
That and his shakiness and seeming lost of command at times.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
He Could Not
Command the cutter the way he does his 4-seamer. He backed off that plan and looked much better later in the season.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 4:53 PM EST up reply actions
So the mexican league hitters are better than the AL?
This is not an accurate statement whatsoever.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
American league MUCH more pitcher friendly than Mexican League
they shoot pitchers in Mexico…
They're Mexican tough.
Which is, like, really tough.
by Dadunca on Nov 29, 2011 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
do i need to list the shitty starters who've thrown no hitters/perfect games against major league hitters?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions
Andres Galaragga 5/55 now
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 10:58 AM EST up reply actions
*Armando
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
or both!
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
i met andres gallaraga one time...he was really funny
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
I met him at Disney when he was fighting cancer and he autographed a braves jersey for me. I love that guy.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
seemed like a great guy
of course, that’s based on nothing, basically
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 11:03 AM EST up reply actions
He thanked me for the support while he was rehabbing,
and said that without fans like that he wouldn’t consider trying to come back. He was one of the best.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
let alone a no-hitter in the Mexican League...
maybe home plate is 3 feet wide there. How would we know?
3 meters wide
metric system
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 29, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
MENDOZA NOW!
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I believe he won't hold up. I have looked at this subject way too much and a long time ago.
http://jeffsqanda.blogspot.com/2008/10/should-joakim-soria-be-moved-to-royals.html
He only makes it every other season without going on the DL. He has the pitches, but not the durability.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 11:01 AM EST up reply actions
he threw a perfect game in the Mexican Winter League
hasn’t started a game in a regular league since 2005
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV
I believe this is a prelude to nothing.
Dayton just wanted a veteran arm in the pen and he got it for $4M. He likes to have guys that fit in his mental boxes for players and broxton does that. He now has the “setup man” role filled by a “known commodity.” It’s how he is.
or maybe he just got him confused with Billingsley.
Even though "Pitching is the Currency of Baseball"
$4M would seem a little steep given what’s already on the roster in the bullpen department.
According to the KC star:
Soria is not a candidate to move to the rotation.
However, in the context of the story, they said:
… a bullpen that could potentially include Closer Joakim Soria…
So, they might be looking to trade him.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
I think you mean in the "text" of the story
But at any rate, I think that’s trying too hard to read between the lines.
The most obvious and important ramification to this deal
is how it will affect Billy going forward. Broxton will be some SERIOUS competition for the post-game spreads in the clubhouse.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 11:02 AM EST reply actions 1 recs
The real deal-sealer.
They don’t have this in Arlington.
by Tito42 on Nov 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
What in the world is that?
I just drooled on my shirt.
Z-MAN!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
OK Joe's I presume?
Unfortunately I’ve never been there but hope to hit it up when I get home on Christmas break.
Yes
Highly recommended. Go to the original location in the gas station at 47th & Mission in KCK (closed Sundays).
I highly recommend the Carolina as well
But its hard to pass up the Zman.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Z-man?
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by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, it's called a Z-Man
Brisket, provolone, 2 onion rings, and sauce on a kaiser bun
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 11:45 AM EST up reply actions
The greatest sandwich in recorded history
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
i dont like those people
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
I haven't had one in a while, but it looked like it.
I was actually worried about say it was it without being 100% sure.
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by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
That Is More
Food than I eat in 2 days.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...the one thing it isnt is overly large
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:28 PM EST up reply actions
Hard To Tell
Without something to compare it to.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
The picture seems to exaggerate it.
It’s like a big burger. In the picture the bun isn’t pushed down on it, and that’s making it look tall. It’s not.
This is why the Royals will never be consistently great...all wrapped up in a nice tasty sammich...
Because the re-design of the stadium called for a ‘taste of Kansas City’ in the outfield and our new vendor Aramark didn’t want competition, all the spots on there (apart from Sheridan’s – Home of the Doug E. Fresh) are all Aramark properties…Why is it soooo hard for the Royals to ask Okie Joe’s if they want to make some extra money on the side and have their BBQ joint out there during the baseball season? The facility is there, show up, work your magic, take your money people throw at you…
But because the front office is of the ’they’lll take what the get and like it!" to their paying season ticket holders and fans….we can’t have nice things like a chinese joint, REAL bbq joint (and no, I don’t consider Gates real when they were in the stadium), a real sandwich joint like we have with Planet Sub or gasp Firehouse subs…..
I want to win a large power ball and buy a share just so I can kick Veep of stadium operations out and take over the job and ask the fans (apart from a win every night) what they want at the stadium. The more they want, the more they’ll spend, the more they spend, the more left over at the end of the year.
steps off soap box
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
what about the fried chicken place?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
every tuesday for 4 years of high school
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:57 PM EST up reply actions
i think its strouds at the stadium though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
It wasn't Strouds at the end of the season.
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by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
really?...what happened?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know. I went to get some wings and it was some generic stand.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
It still was in August the last time I was there.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 1:03 PM EST up reply actions
you mean Go Pigeon Go?
their chicken peices are so tiny…maybe cuz it is actually chicken…
best damn lizzards and givers I’ve ever had!!!
Go sauce makes me freudian slip a lot
I am the one who knocks.
Yes Strouds was there for 1.5 seasons. But I don't like their chicken, only their CFS
And I ain’t eating that in a stadium seat. Plus it was only introduced after the stadium was complete, – in other words an afterthought. I did love grabbing cinnamon rolls though….
And if they are making from scratch , their chicken is not the speediest thing to have at a stadium….It takes forever when you go to the restaurant, since everything’s made to order. I like our local businesses. If we can have a chicken joint that sells at a reasonable price with a good product, and fast service, it would have succeeded IMO.
Ball parks are ripe for quick food. Short order things. A couple of woks with multiple dishes filling a Chinese togo container, fried baloney sammiches, chicken or beef tacos fried up the right way. Quick , tasty, local. That’s what I’m getting at.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
Which destroys ones credibility completely.
At least with fat dudes.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 1:14 PM EST up reply actions
hey Zimmerman...
next time you interview a Royals front office guy I want this question asked:
“Jin, since you have admitted that you pay attention to the blogs, I am sure you have read the grumblings calling for a new food called the Pizza Coney to be available at Kauffman. Are there any current plans to text the product at the minor league level before calling it up to the big leagues?”
btw…total bummer…missed that Pizziconi was released
I am the one who knocks.
I don't get Stroud's
I’m glad a KC restaurant has a great national rep, but I find their chicken extremely bland. You’re right, the chicken fried steak is worth coming back for but you have to smother it in gravy.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
ive heard some awful stories about the cleanliness or lack thereof in their restaurants...
havent ever been there and wont ever go
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I've worked in enough restaraunts to know what to spot if there is something
Unclean about a place. If they aren’t taking care of the front, they sure aren’t taking care of the back. I’ve not had that issue with Stroud’s. However you can’t check out inspections for any restaurant online.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
FWIW
I thought the generic BBQ by Aramark in right field was excellent.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
it was solid but bbq in kc should be better
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:30 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough...
Everyone has their preference. Which was why I was greatly disappointed that we couldn’t have a signature BBQ joint in town – Bryants, Okle Joes, Smokehouse, serve up in right field. To that point, I do on occassion just bring in what I want to eat. So between The Flea, The Mixx, Bryants, OK Joes, etc, I’ve got what I want, cheaper than at the Stadium.
I’ve had the stuff in the outfield, it’s not horrible. But to make a point…for the All Star Game, would you rather have Aramark’s BBQ being served up to the masses or Bryants or Okie Joes? Would you rather have a Mnii-Market Burger from the Flea – using find McGongiles beef, or the bland Aramark Burgers? A generic slice from Digorno (sp), or something from D’Bronx, Fun House or Minskey’s?
I’m all about supporting our local businesses.
I’m proud to see Farmland dogs, Schimeca’s Sausage, Sheridan’s desserts, and Boulevard Beers…Personally I wished they were the default beer at the stadium and it cost extra for bud / bud light / coors / miller lite…but that’s just me.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
the beer thing would be terrible....
im there to consume as many delicious non filling beers as i can for as cheaply as i can
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
i really like boulevard
but, i’m probably going to go with the cheaper beer unless it gets out that they use child labor.
That's weird.
If I found out they were using child labor, then I’d feel good drinking it. You’d at least know they had your best interests at heart.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 8:24 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Then why do to a stadium and pay for one beer when you can buy a six pack cheaper?
Granted don’t get me wrong, drink all the beer you want, the team needs the revenue. However as a season ticket holder we moved sections specifically to get away from college nights at the K – every wednesday night, and the drunk, abusive, loud, puking (at least 5 times in one season), kids that show up to drink, instead of watching the game.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
i dont just drink one beer at the stadium...
i drink in the parking lot…and i drink in the stadium…and i go b/c i enjoy being at baseball games when drinkin
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
And that's your perogative ....a reason this country is great.
As long as everyone is respectful of each other, it’s all good. That way EVERYONE can have a good time. I only bring up the point due to 95% of issues we’ve had at the park, at least two a month are alcohol related. And by issues, I mean from a man hitting on my wife, to a drunk spilling a new beer on our seats trying to catch a 4 dollar dog thrown by slugger, and asking me to pay for his new beer (opening day last year), to a guy that bitched about the view from his seat in section 419, and then bought 7 beers during the game, more than the price of his ticket.
I want everyone to be able to drink and have a good time Just leave getting drunk to being at home.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
im generally pretty well behaved...
if were partying it up…i dont generally wander in until the 3rd or 4th…get a beer…hit my seats…go smoke…run into people i know…leave by the 8th…if im wanting to actually take in a baseball game, i watch on tv
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
True about Boulevard being available...but...
Leinenkugel is featured in the outfield more prominently than Boulevard is anywhere else in the stadium that I can think of. Leine is owned by Miller.
I agree, it's about the revenue the Royals are bringing in from all sources..
Miller and Busch are obviously the bigger sponsers …(ahem the miller home run bar and the bud light party porch)….so they are more prominently shown.
However, the last time I had a boulevard out there I could have swore it was the same price as a generic. But I may be wrong.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
I don’t recall there being a big premium for Boulevard, either, though maybe it was the same price for different size cups.
That could be Tito
And if it is, it’s still not any more than they are charging for the import / premiums, like lienen’s, Shiner, Red Stripe, Heinys, Guinness, etc.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
Re: Local products
Personally, I was upset when we switched from “Guys” nuts to “Houston” a few years back.
No more fun sales pitch (“Get some guy’s nuts”)
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
by loyal2sdad on Nov 29, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I agree
There should be a signature local BBQ place at the stadium. And at P&L too, that’s a disgrace that Famous Dave’s is there instead of a local place.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
It's good
It’s real BBQ out there, it’s not like they warm up Lloyd’s out of a tub or something. But it’s also not iconic, and there are several nationally-recognized, iconic BBQ joints in KC. It would be nice if they could be featured in the ballpark.
I still don't understand why they don't change the stupid, generic Ketchup, Mustard, and Relish races
into OK Joe’s, Gates, Jack Stack, Bryant’s races. You could have costumes for a giant slab of ribs, pile of brisket, bowl of beans, etc. Tell me you couldn’t make money off of something like that.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
HA! Ok, now that's awsome...
However would have to match the ad revenue they are getting from Heinz From those bbq joints that would want to take part.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
Great idea.
People would come to the K just to see those races.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Nov 29, 2011 3:44 PM EST up reply actions
Nobody wants to be represented by a bowl of beans though.
And besides, the best beans in town are Smokehouse (up north)
Bullpen candidates:
Locks:
Soria
Holland
Broxton
Coleman
Collins
In the picture:
Crow
Wood
Herrera
Teaford
Adcock
Mazzaro
Maier
So basically, adding Broxton leaves only 2 slots for Crow, Wood, Herrera and Teaford. Wood kinda sucks, and while I like Teaford, I’m fine with him starting the year in AAA. Crow is a rotation candidate, and Herrera has 43 IP above A-ball. I think there was room in the pen.
I can see a lot of the younger guys shuttling back and forth
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Yep
In terms of talent per dollar, the deal seems like it could be good. And it probably will improve the team.
My concern is that money spent elsewhere might have improved the team more.
yeah
this is another “hey, it might be okay deal” like Chen and Francoeur. Together with Broxton, they will be making about $16 million in 2012.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
Bingo
it is the only one of the three that is a one-year deal
by Gopherballs on Nov 29, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions
Meche money!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I don't consider
Collins a lock at all. I think he is a back and forth from KC to Omaha guy for a couple of years. Not a long term MLB pitcher. Certainly not a lock to make the pen.
You'll have to pry him from Ned's cold dead hands.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
If He Can
Command his curve and change well enough to throw them in fastball counts he will be good. He gets into too many hitter’s counts.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:08 PM EST up reply actions
I guess I'm in the minority but I like this deal
I will agree $4m is a little more than I would of liked to see, but I would rather pay a little more for a 1 year contract than spread it out over 2 years.
Next thought, people PLEASE stop saying Soria to the rotation! There is no way Soria will ever be a starter for this team. Why would they have waited this long to convert him when we’ve brought in other closer-types. I also don’t necessarily think Soria is getting traded. Broxton still has question marks and I can’t see them just giving him the closer position. But it does appear they are going to try to move one of those bullpen arms and try him as a starter, just not sure which one…
It's a million more than I was hoping.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 29, 2011 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
$3.6 million more than i was hoping...
but it’s probably not a realistic hope to sign everyone for the minimum
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Dayton is simply copying off Jon Daniels
Daniels is the cool kid in the lunchroom who converted his closer to a starter, so Dayton wants to be just like him senior year.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions
So you think they are going to try Soria in the rotation?
by Royals Time on Nov 29, 2011 11:09 AM EST up reply actions
No
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:11 AM EST up reply actions
Is that a real rumor from a professional rumor monger
Or just fan chatter?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:15 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
bob elliot talked about the royals looking into rasmus last night....
everyone knows the jays are looking for a closer…its putting two published rumors together…cant imagine AA would do that though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's just speculation based on other rumors which may not be related
My point is that there isn’t even a rumor out (that I know of) involving the Royals talking about a potential trade involving those two players.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:23 AM EST up reply actions
yeah...this move definitely makes a soria trade more likely though, no?
and wouldnt that be a good thing? even if his stock is down…he’s getting expensive
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions
See above.
I agree with this.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:28 AM EST up reply actions
I think now is about as good of a time we are going to get to trade Soria
Obviously depending on what we get back, but I would be all for trading him.
by Royals Time on Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM EST up reply actions
umm...did you mean to post this last offseason?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:32 AM EST up reply actions
Umm no...
good of a time we are going to get to trade Soria
I’m talking about here on out. Of course last year would have been better.
I really doubt a Soria trade will happen, but we'll see
Hopefully that’s what this signing was about. If so, and if Moore can make a good Soria trade, then I’ll heartily congratulate Moore and thank him publicly.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
Detente
With a summit in Geneva to discuss future relations.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I'd be willing
Of course I’d only be congratulating him for that good move….I wouldn’t be lauding him as an all-of-the-sudden good GM.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
Give Him Half
A season to rebuild his value. Then, if Broxie is looking good, trade Soria to a contender at the deadline. At least it’s a plan.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:12 PM EST up reply actions
Yes pls
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Probably yes
but unfortunately I think we would get tricked into adding a “throw in” like Montgomery or Odorizzi.
Yes
This seems like not addressing our needs while spending resources. It may turn out OK, and from an assets perspective, might work out. But I don’t know how it could be a “good” move.
The good news is that if Broxton has a good first half, he'll definitely be traded at the deadline
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:24 AM EST reply actions
i think you say things expecting them to not come true
and instead are daring dayton to defy you
EXACTLY
This was my first thought — this is just like the Dotel signing but for a little more money. We ended up flipping Dotel for Kyle Davies at the deadline. I think DM is hoping for a similar outcome and I think it’s a very good gamble. If Broxton returns to form he’ll be super trade-bait and that will be great for the Royals. If he fails we lost $4M and that’s that.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 AM EST up reply actions
i think you missed scotts sarcasm
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM EST up reply actions
Thank you
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 11:54 AM EST up reply actions
I did...
oops.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
c'mon guys, sarcasm font
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
That was my thought
Although it was a tough call.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
to be fair though...
he did do it with dotel…probably wouldve with cruz had he not blown ass
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Yes, it's not like he never trades guys at the deadline
I just can’t have faith in him doing it.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
Yep. Doesn't seem too horrible in my eyes. The worst that happens is we lose $4M...
the best that happens is we flip Broxton for an up-and-comer… not a bad idea. It will be harder to obtain talent thru the draft so this is a way to supplement that… always has been.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
and there's the outside but far from impossible chance that we're competing and we need him
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
Instead of $4.5M for Chen and $4M for Broxton
I would have preferred $9M for one better player. Or even better, banking that money and saving it for 2013.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 12:05 PM EST up reply actions
I know... I see your point.
But what if you look at this as a shifting of funds from amateur / international talent to the free agent pool as a way of acquiring talent? Does that make you feel better?
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
not Chen, obviously, but Broxton.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
the new CBA says go for it on overspending on the FA market
moore is just doing his best to please the powers that be
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
OT - Chen bonuses
Has anyone read what they are based on? $0.5M for 2012 and 2013 for roster bonuses and incentives
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by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 11:25 AM EST reply actions
He is paid per "Joke of the Day"
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
cannot cite to anything
but I think the “roster bonus” just means that if he is on the roster on the specific date noted in the contract, he gets the bonus. In other words, if he gets released before then, no bonus.
by Gopherballs on Nov 29, 2011 12:54 PM EST up reply actions
pros
a) reduces the role of wood/crow if broxton is healthy and effective
b) 866 anagrams to choose from. my favorite is probably “Banjo Ax Thornton”, sounds like a bad dude.
Because I love to follow
Blues Chain with Banjo Ax Thornton. Especially if it leads to domination by Crime Horse.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
Dutton just tweeted this:
“Hearing #Royals believe price of adding impact starter is too high and now looking to build killer bullpen.”
ULTRA BULLPEN. BECAUSE GO FOR IT.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
by Jack Marsh on Nov 29, 2011 11:44 AM EST reply actions 3 recs
hmm...its not a horrible idea looking at our rotation....
paulino, duffy and sanchez are all pretty inefficient with their pitches…we’ll see alot of 5 1/3 2 run games…being able to count on 4 good innings out of the pen should make for alot of wins
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:53 AM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure you can put that sort of strain on your bullpen during the whole season.
I don’t want to end up like the Braves.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
if we've got an 8 man pen, which is likely...we can
and of course, we’ll get some 7, 8 or 9 inning starts…we’ll ahve some blowouts both ways
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Hmm....
I’d be concerned about that. Anybody know if the Braves had a 7 or 8 man bullpen?
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
not sure...but they were very young if i recall...
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:01 PM EST up reply actions
They were, but all the more reason to not be using them all the time.
Braves fans are probably worried about Venters and Kimbrel next year. They really took a nosedive at the end, seemingly from fatigue.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:03 PM EST up reply actions
they were waaaaaaay more than even collins did last year though...
and it seemed like collins pitched every fucking game
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
Collins really slowed down about halfway through I think.
But it’s a good point that if you have a strong bullpen, you don’t have to rely on 3 or 4 guys most of the time. I still don’t like the idea of the strategy though. I’d prefer starters who can consistently give us 6 or 7 innings.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
And yes, I know this is obviously preferable.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
those guys cost more than our entire bullpen though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
The Royals are banking on getting 2 homegrown guys to do this
Which is certainly possible. Not sure how likely, but possible.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST up reply actions
yep...we have to get at least one though
if we want to win for any extended period of time though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Don't Be Surprised
To see Monty at the K sin June.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions
According to the Narrative, Collins was in every game
He did not lead the team in appearances or innings last year.
We should trade for Vance Worley.
by JKWard on Nov 29, 2011 7:16 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
im well aware...it just seems that way b/c too many of his appearances were memorable...
which is not a good thing for a middle reliever
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 7:29 PM EST up reply actions
He had a lot of deep counts and is a novelty in his own right
And it became a running theme on RR, which explains the phenomenon.
Very few people outside of this internet community actually saw it that way, based on personal experience.
We should trade for Vance Worley.
most people ive run into elsewhere thought he was good though too
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
That is also true.
And he did lead the team in total appearances last year. I re-checked. He did not lead in innings, and he did not lead in appearances once the bullpen was “set” with Holland coming up.
We should trade for Vance Worley.
the braves used 4 guys heavily
had a 7-8 man bullpen though
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:06 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...it'd make a difference if we could have 5-6 guys we can reasonably rely on...
soria, holland, broxton (if healthy), herrera, coleman
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
can't forget ned's love affair with collins
he’ll get his innings come hell or high water
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:10 PM EST up reply actions
maybe this broxton signing means he gets more AAA time...let those assholes deal with him
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:11 PM EST up reply actions
he needs more AAA time, who knows if he gets it
maybe sisk beats him out for the spot in ST
by BeauJackson on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions
1000 innings!
From our bullpen!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 12:04 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
And thus we have arrived at Dayton’s patented ‘not horrible, but makes no sense in terms of the roster’ headscratcher.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 AM EST reply actions 4 recs
thats a fair statement...
assuming he doesnt make another move
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:52 AM EST up reply actions
I bet you he makes another move in the next couple of days for a good set-up man.
I’m not kidding. Read the Dutton tweet I posted above.
K-Rod could be an option if he wants to have the best 1-2-3-punch in baseball.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
holland and which of the other two?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:56 AM EST up reply actions
The 1-2-3-4 punch would be:
Holland
Broxton
K-Rod
Soria
That is if we sign K-Rod to a 1-year loaded contract. And I am being completely serious.
If we have a meh rotation, and the best bullpen in baseball, would that be playoff-caliber?
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
its a different way of lookign at things....
it’d be interesting for sure
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
and if we're not gonna be good...might as well be interesting
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
TWSS.........Seriously.......
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:26 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Depends...
“Meh” is a tiny bit vague. If the rotation performs well for our expectations, then we could be a playoff team (if the offense holds up). If the rotation underperforms and is constantly only giving us 4 to 5 innings… I don’t think there’s a bullpen that can get you to the playoffs. You’re already losing a lot of games by the time they come in.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
Well, you have to keep in mind, we aren't going to have O'Sullivan, Mazarro, or Hiram in the rotation next year.
We had a -32 run differential last year even with them in the rotation, so I would expect more consistency, if not improvement.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
Maybe a little more consistency can be expected.
But I’m still skeptical of the bullpen’s effectiveness and overall role in the season’s success or failure. Of course, you’re still dealing with the fact that relievers just don’t have the influence on the game that starters do.
by hawkinscm87 on Nov 29, 2011 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
You make a good point that relievers don't have as much of an influence.
The very least we need to see from our starters if we want to win games (If we are going to continue with the idea of ULTRA BULLPEN) is 5 or so innings of 1-2 run ball. I think that could reasonably be accomplished with a rotation of Hochevar, Duffy/Crow/Teaford/Montgomery, Paulino, Sanchez, and Chen.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
But Hosmer is>Tebow so we can always score late to win.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:12 PM EST up reply actions
Tebow is worshipping a false prophet.
Those that do not bow down to The Hos, bow down to idols.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
by Jack Marsh on Nov 29, 2011 12:13 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I would agree that this move would seem to lead that direction, but we say that at least once an offseason with Moore’s moves.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 29, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
matt...just read your article on francoeur...good stuff
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST reply actions
thanks
I was trying to avoid piling on Frenchy again, it’s just that I had read those quotes before and thought they were illuminating with regard to current major leaguer’s attitudes towards signing bonuses. It was particularly revealing in Francoeur’s case, I thought, because his own situation when he signed was a lot like Bubba Starling’s (if further down in the first round).
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 29, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Dayton was paying too much attention during the last two rounds of the playoffs, and the strategy is to get mediocre performances out of the rotation and go to the bullpen early and often. Worked for the world series teams!
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 29, 2011 12:14 PM EST reply actions
just read that he had bone spurs in his elbow
i’ve never heard of that as an arm problem before.
it makes me more comfortable with this move considering i was reading above that it was mysterious
and was under the impression that he hadn’t been treated with anything more than rest.
you may know them by their alter ego, "loose bodies"
by Gopherballs on Nov 29, 2011 12:23 PM EST up reply actions
you know, i think i have heard of those
can’t remember who it would have been in reference to or even if it was a baseball or a football player.
Three Bills, Baby!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:32 PM EST up reply actions
so Frenchy was the main recruiter of Broxton apparently
went on a hunting trip with Frenchy and Ned. LEADERSHIP!
I'd like to know if those conversations go something like:
“Broxy. You’ve got to sign here. Look at how stupid they are! They think they have to overpay for everything just to get us to want to play here! I’ll bet that if you use my deal as an example, you could rip ‘em for twice what anyone else offers. Who gives a shit about rings? They let me hit naked before games and then write shit in the paper about what a great leader I really am! It’s the best! Oh, did I mention that thew got rid of all the fat guys except Butler? Literally no competition for meals!” Broxton: “I’ll try ‘em on for $4M. Is that BBQ really as good as everyone says? Think they’d throw in a ZMan?”
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
^^^^ I can not effing Rec this enough ^^^^
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
it's from ESPN
Royals outfielder and fellow Georgia native Jeff Francoeur played an active role in recruiting Broxton, baseball sources said. Francoeur, Broxton and Kansas City manager Ned Yost recently went on a hunting trip together in Georgia.
I for one am overjoyed that Francoeur has become instrumental in
.
bringing to the Royals the FA's that they really need.
.
Jeff Francoeur, the gift that keeps on giving.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I wonder how many Bigfoots they got?
Black Powder Bigfoot season just ended down there in Georgia….I reckon Freedom filled his permit.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 29, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
I was driving back from Dallas on Sunday afternoon and came across
Bigfoot’s BBQ off of HWy 69 in eastern OK. Totally thought about the NIghthawk’s obsession with sasquatch hunting and Frenchy. LOL’d and almost wrecked. My wife was totally pissed.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
still haven't figured out the correct term for a group of Bigfoots
in cryptozoology research, you’ll see references to a “Parliment of Bigfeet”, a “Caucus of Bigfeet”, a “Bohemian Grove,” or my personal fave, a “Rascal Basket.” In any case, you know Neddy drove all the way from Bibb City to Cobb County with a fine specimen splayed across the roof of his F1-50, and a funny as hell Foxworthy CD providing the soundtrack to boasts and embellishments regarding the hunt. Ned actually gets misty when he talks with authentic reverence about how good it feels to kill a Bigfoot. The electricity he feels when a Bigfoot comes ambling in to the kill zone, stuffing marshmallows into its mouth and pausing, ever so slightly, to wonder what that strange, faint, odd scent could be? The last thought it ever has. And then, when its clear a killshot has been obtained, Frenchy and Broxton pile on the dead carcass, reigning kidney punches and knuckle rubs on the lifeless body much as they would joyfully pummel Eric Hosmer after a GWRBI.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 29, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I would think the verbiage would be based on region.
In eastern OK where I was it would definately have been a Rascal Basket. In NYC I would think it would be a Bohemian Grove, in Iowa a Caucus of Bigfeet, and of course all Canadian Bigfeet are members of Parliment. This all makes pefect sense now.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 6:06 PM EST up reply actions
Ok, fine.
I’ll give you that, but I would also say he’s no Runelves Hernandez either.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions
awesome
You’ve got to sign here. Look at how stupid they are!
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 29, 2011 2:05 PM EST up reply actions
It came to me
in a vision
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Without reading all comments, here are my unadulterated thoughts:
This is a fantastic move. Why?:
1. The starting pitching market is scarce. It makes sense to load up on relievers if a team can’t get the starting pitching for a reasonable price. It’s like in football if you don’t have a good QB, just overpay for defense.
2. 1 year/$4 million? Really? My guess when I heard this was like 3 years/$22 million or something much, much more. This is excellent. Broxton has been a fantasy beast before, for the price why not take a shot?
3. If we run out of starting pitching, we now can move bullpen peices to the rotation without hurting the bullpen.
4. We all love what Soria has done, but what if he has just lost a little bit of zip and this causes him to be completely ineffective (call this the Daunte Hall factor). Makes sense to grab another Soria type (in regards to high reward). It’s probability; at least one of these guys should have a good year, might as well double your chances, or at least have a contingency plan.
5. GMDM made another bizarro move that allows the team to be more malleable, and thus make further trades that need to be made when the holes make themselves apparent. I will call this un-pigeonholing.
6.
I am the one who knocks.
didn't mean to have a 6th bullet point...
just regard the blankness as all the intangibles Broxton brings to the team
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
love the breaking bad quote as your signature, btw.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
if you frequent here, you will learn I am BB's biggest supporter...
btw, I’ve heard they have cancelled the Emmy awards, and all awards are to be immediately handed over to the cast and crew of Breaking Bad…why not? no other show comes close and we could use less of the 4 hour charade…
I will say the Boardwalk Empire has had some seriously badass episodes this year…top notch…but once in a while they throw a stinker in…they seem to have upped the ante tho
Dexter started to get good and then lost its mojo…I’m hooked, but not thoroughly impressed…
and The Walking Dead is highly flawed, but definitely watchable…
I’m also good at talking OT amidst statistical Royals arguments if you couldnt’ tell
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions
Me too.
Checkout the steak thread within this thread.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Z Man> Broxton> Tebow
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
boardwalks been good this season…i’ve loved dexter this season…bb has been awesome throughout it’s run…
anyone watching homeland? great show on showtime
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:47 PM EST up reply actions
Homeland is in the queue...
I have to whip through Deadwood for Nighthawk first tho
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:49 PM EST up reply actions
Don't whip through Deadwood too fast
It is one of the few shows where you are better off not watching a bunch of episodes in a row just so everything can sink in. The story lines are really secondary.
Touche Stairs...
I’m thru the first 3 episodes of Breaking Bad. I like the dude bike locked to the pole in the basement.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 29, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions
man I loved where Dexter was going this season...
until they pussed out on the whole Brian alter ego thing…hope that comes back with avengence…I want to see completely over-the-top Dexter
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
i hate colin hanks with a passion
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, not a great actor but why the hate?
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
because he isn't a great actor...
why did we hate Mike Jacobs? because he was bad at his job and got paid a lot to perform poorly
I am the one who knocks.
its his name...i hate everyone named colin
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions
really though...its b/c he's not tom hanks...
and he looks exactly like tom hanks so i just expect more…he’d have been better off looking at least slightly different than his far more talented dad
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
makes sense
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 1:35 PM EST up reply actions
Because people should make it on talent
And not who their dad is.
Except Dan Glass.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
he could succeed as an actor...he's not terrible
it absolutely wouldve been more difficult for him though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions
I'm tired of people being famous because of their parents.
And of course, being famous means $$$. It’s like the feudal age, but commercialized.
act like it only happens in hollywood...
do you attack the guys you go to law school with who have huge advantages because of who their parents are, b/c their parents have money/connections? it’s no different and it happens in pretty much every industry…outside of possibly sports
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:36 PM EST up reply actions
Oh, it happens in sports.
BLOODLINES.
And I go to UMKC, where there really aren’t that many people with rich parents. I know a couple of people with access to trust funds, but not many. And sure, I think it’s unfair and stupid. I don’t attack them though, because in the legal field, at some point, you have to show you’re capable. Not so in show business.
that happens in sports as well...you might get the first shot...
but you’re eventually going to have to produce. .
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:47 PM EST up reply actions
this is why we all love sports...
you can’t fake a fucking 99 mph fastball
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 10:41 PM EST up reply actions
That and we have a passion for the nouveau riche that we all learned when we read The Great Gatsby in our poor schools
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Haha...the #4 prospect according to MLB.com in 2012 Draft
His bio starts out:
Major League bloodlines are always a plus and the younger Lance McCullers has the chance to be much better than his father, who spent parts of seven seasons in the big leagues.
What a ridiculous idea. It’s worse than using batting average to judge a hitter.
think so?
i think a guy who has half of his genetics coming from a world class athlete probably has a better chance of succeeding than someone who doesnt. it gives you an idea of how that guy might develop….what his mental makeup may be like…etc
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions
I bet for every son of a former major leaguer that's drafted
There’s 2 sons that never make it that far.
and thats about 1000x more likely than the normal population....
thanks for proving my point
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions
Randolph Duke
(or was it Mortimar?) would like to place a wager with you…
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
by loyal2sdad on Nov 30, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Bill Bavasi
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:42 PM EST up reply actions
Being that you're still in law school...
You’d be surprised how often this is not the case once you graduate:
I don’t attack them though, because in the legal field, at some point, you have to show you’re capable.
Law firms are just businesses whose product is legal services. Like all other businesses, they need clients/customers. If you’re a rich/connected kid who may not have much skill, but can make it rain just because of who you are and who you know, you’ll end up having a long and successful career.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 30, 2011 11:22 AM EST up reply actions
Homeland has been rock solid despite my complete and utter disdain of Claire Danes
Boardwalk has been great. SoA has been better during the second half, but I’ve got some issues with it. Just finished season one of Breaking Bad. Pretty good so far. I’m assuming it gets better.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions
howd you hold off on bb up to this point?
you like daines in that role? i didnt have an opinion on her beforehand one way or another but i think she’s killing it
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
She still bugs me.
AMC wasn’t in HD on DirecTV. Missed the beginning. Watch most of what I watch as it’s airing as I have virtually every channel and DVR.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 8:06 PM EST up reply actions
I'm with you on Danes.
She’s not hot enough for me to excuse her acting. She’s one of those actors/actresses that survives on getting way too emotional about things (emotional meaning anger, excitement, etc. Not just sensitive)
seems like thats perfect for this role though...lots of ups and downs
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
The more I think about it, she was a good option.
I still think she overemphasizes certain emotions, but there aren’t many actresses like her. She’s still fairly young so her marital status makes sense, she’s somewhat attractive so she can be seen in HD but not obviously casted for her appearance, and she’s blonde, but makes it believable that she’s smart. I’m not saying blondes aren’t smart…I’m just saying her image isn’t that of a ditzy blonde.
Obviously she’s an actress, so chances are she’s a complete idiot in real life.
her yale education says otherwise
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:51 PM EST up reply actions
It's a point in her favor.
But if you’re right, then I’m glad everyone can finally agree that George W. Bush is smart. (I think he is, but not because his Yale education.)
i dont think someone gets through yale...
or even two years like danes before she quit due to acting….without being smart.
anyone who says that gwb is dumb is an idiot. he may not be the smartest guy in the world but neither is obama….and when it comes to a president, i want a guy who’s pretty intelligent but doesnt think he’s the smartest guy in the room at all times…having smart people around and being willing to listen to them is huge.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:59 PM EST up reply actions
Fair enough.
She’s probably smart. For celebrities, I start with the assumption that they’re dumb and go from there. But intelligence isn’t the only thing. There’s also life experiences, and I think that many celebrities don’t experience their 20s like most people do. That is, they don’t go through some of the most important years of their lives the same way you and I did. They didn’t learn some important things about life. I think that’s why you end up with so many of them being Scientologists.
thats probably a solid strategy
mildly retarded until proven otherwise….i do the same with athletes and am shocked when i hear one of them that seems like they are intelligent
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions
The Exceptions Prove
The rule.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 9:18 PM EST up reply actions
I Probably Know
More about this than anyone you have ever talked to about it, including practicing Scienos. It’s all about the ego and achieving Homo Novus status. They refer to us as wogs; very enlightened.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 9:22 PM EST up reply actions
Good Idea
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions
I believe you meant
There’s also My So-Called life experiences
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 11:49 PM EST up reply actions
yeah, only really smart people get into Yale. They don't put up with that legacy nonsense
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 30, 2011 8:42 AM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Walking Dead is flawed b/c I don’t care about the characters much… at least not until the last couple episodes of this half season. Breaking Bad is on a different (higher) level, though. I think Mad Men is, too, but in a different genre.
I don’t have HBO but I hear great things about Boardwalk. I’ll have to watch that eventually. I just started watching Weeds on netflix and it’s better than I expected.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:48 PM EST up reply actions
Weeds can be great...and it can give you some serious gut punches (the bad kind)
be prepared to love cliffhangers
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:50 PM EST up reply actions
i watch weeds as well....
but its moer just for entertainment sorta like entourage was….i think weeds has been out of the quality tv show category for quite some time
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
Mad Men gets extra points for being the next step evolutionally for TV...
where upon The Sopranos kind of started it, but where an episode is on the surface about one thing, but is a character study on the underneath side
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
totally agree. What a great time for TV, huh? It's never been this good before.
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions
everytime shows seasons end i wonder what im gonna do for tv...
then i find something else…just finished season 1 of sleeper cell…pretty good stuff as well
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:52 PM EST up reply actions
movies now suck, but TV rocks...who woulda thought:
The Wire
Breaking Bad
Sopranos
Dexter
Walking Dead
Mad Men
Curb Your Enthusiasm
just off the top of my head…and that is just the tip…we are in the Golden Age of TV
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
also
Lost
Band of Brothers / The Pacific (sorta qualify)
I no longer have a blog.
by CollininCalifornia on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
still meaning to rewatch the first 3 seasons and then watch the rest
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
You must.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
not a fan of walking dead or curb though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:01 PM EST up reply actions
Walking Dead?
This season has been more like the Standing in One Place Dead? Am I right? Right?
by Gopherballs on Nov 29, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
right...
I kind of included it because it has such high ratings and is an amc show…i know, biased right?
shows I haven’t seen but heard good things:
Lost
Friday Night Lights
Parks n Rec
Office (loved the few eps I’ve seen)
we know we have it great when even a show that sucks like Lie to Me ain’t all that bad
I am the one who knocks.
the shield?
brotherhood?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:08 PM EST up reply actions
The Shield is good.
Justified was very entertaining in season 1, haven’t been beyond that though.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
yeah...only season 1 of justified here too
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
Season Two is much better, and I liked Season One.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:36 PM EST up reply actions
Brotherhood was great as well.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:37 PM EST up reply actions
You can see the budget reductions on the screen
(Spoilers)
Besides the woods, there have been really only two main settings (highway and farm) with a few location shots (church, high school, pharmacy, Shane and Andrea’s trip to the suburbs). The pilot had as many zombie set pieces as the 7 second season episodes (highway, high school, suburb, and the one from the last episode). And even those were pretty brief and closely shot to not give away that they were only using a dozen or so extras.
I think you could edit this season’s 7 episodes into 3 or 4 really good episodes.
no doubt...
I enjoyed the bombing of ATL scene…that seemed to be poignant…
I’ve heard they are straying from the original story A LOT…
there was a BS Report that made me feel better about it as a zombie flick and nothing more…
the problem is that they try to make it more and it doesn’t work…
btw the lead Sheriff guy is a Brit if you didn’t already know…not Stringer Bell shocking, but still
I am the one who knocks.
so is the badass redneck brother
yeah, neither the writing nor acting is good enough on the interpersonal relationship storylines. They even ruined Dale.
Game of Thrones!
Best series I’ve ever watched – though I don’t watch a whole lot of TV.
I enjoy Game of Thrones...
but it has a way to go to be considered in the pantheon with Mad Men and Breaking Bad…I’ve heard it gets better and better tho
I am the one who knocks.
Sleeper Cell was great. Underrated.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
im not liking how season 2 has started...but im only 2 eps in...we'll see
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 6:57 PM EST up reply actions
You only have, what, seven episodes left.
You’ll have a good time with it.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions
Just getting into Mad Men
IMO best show since The Shield. I think the layers to each character is what makes both shows.
I am have watched the most of the first two seasons of Mad Men in the last two weeks. Hopefully they keep showing the reruns in order every Sunday morning.
Well off to watch another 2 episodes before bed.
Weeds gets bad after the second season.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
and i still watch...b/c its entertaining...and MLP is hot
and kevin nealon is funny as hell
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 6:58 PM EST up reply actions
I love MLP, which is a big reason why I hate Claire Danes (and Billy Crudup)
Nealon bugs me. The two sons bug me. Andy is half funny and half annoying. It’s just gotten so bad. Not quite Californication bad but close.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 8:09 PM EST up reply actions
dont you dare talk shit on californication
another terrible show that i love simply b/c its an awesome guy living an awesome life and im jealous.
have you seen anything on the new showtime show house of lies? that looks promising to me
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 8:17 PM EST up reply actions
Too late.
I already did.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 29, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah
Even the second season is kinda dodgy. First season was excellent.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 29, 2011 7:04 PM EST up reply actions
although the season 5 ending to Weeds was fantastic
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 10:46 PM EST up reply actions
being able to pull our starters earlier when they struggle does help our rotation though....
and its more doable with another quality piece in the pen
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
white sox looking to trade thornton and his 2/12 remaining...
another small point in daytons favor…not a dumb two years deal
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 12:44 PM EST reply actions
He would be a good option for ULTRA BULLPEN as a long reliever type.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
to go along with my load up on bullpen arms if you can't pay for SP...
go ahead and trade some minor leaguers for Thornton if we are actually going to compete…
problem is that we don’t trust GMDM to pick the right minor leaguers
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
12 million for a reliever....no thanks
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions
I will second trusttheprocess's headscratcher comment
The Good:
It is only a one year deal
Adding a reliever allows the team to try a non-Soria reliever as a starter (preferably Holland over the control-challenged Crow)
Broxton once was a legitimately elite reliever, so there is some decent upside if the perfect world scenario happens
Even if he does not return to his peak form, he could still have value as an above average reliever
He is not Willie Bloomquist
The Bad
Non-Mariano Rivera relievers tend to have short shelf lives as elite pitchers
The last time he was an elite reliever was three years ago
He only pitched 14 innings (12 in MLB) last year
He throws a lot of sliders, which can be red flag for additional injuries
He only throws a fastball/slider combo, so he might struggle against lefties if his pre-injury velocity and command does not return
His declining velocity has been mentioned (down 3.5 MPH in 2011 since his peak), but his swinging strike rate has tumbled too (14.5% in 2009, 11.1% in 2010, 8.6% in 2011) (with 2011 small sample size warning)
$4 million seems more appropriate for an injury-risk starter (who still might get you 100 IP if he missed half a season) than an injury-risk reliever (who would likely only get you 35 IP if he missed half a season).
Decent relievers can usually be found cheaper and often on the scrap heap or by converting a failed starter
Broxton is not a bad high risk, (relatively) high reward gamble for a team legitimately expecting to contend with bullpen issues, but I am not sure this makes a lot of sense for the Royals.
by Gopherballs on Nov 29, 2011 12:51 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
Good summary
In a vacuum, it’s a decent gamble. For the Royals, it doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but it could still be a solid value.
Meh
He’s a reliever. In the grand scheme of things it doesn’t matter much.
Decent gamble performance wise, but no real upside for the royals (trade value suppressed with new CBA comp pick rules).
I just hope Dayton hasn’t paid Closer money.
Edgar knows best.
1 year, 4 million plus incentives (I Think)
Doesn’t sound too bad.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
He has that...
…Cardinals stank about him. The smudge of La Russa never leaves. Neither vinegar nor lemon helps.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
In Rasmus' defense,
La Russa hated him, and the feeling was mutual.
by moregritplease on Nov 29, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
Good point.
So maybe we can adopt him. Of course the feeling has to be mutual.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
And Optional
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:43 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
He also hit the longest homerun I've ever seen at the K hit by someone not named Bo.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 3:23 PM EST up reply actions
He probably hates him for personal reasons
We hate La Russa because he is revered and doesn’t deserve it.
I hate TLR because he is completely irrational...
he thinks that everything he does affects whether the Cards win or lose…I hope he still thinks that even when he is retired and Pujols is gone
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 29, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions
ULTRA BULLPEN seems like a pretty good plan.
The Royals have a crappy rotation, so why not make up for it with a freaking awesome bullpen?
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
Interesting strategy.
I gotta say, having a top-form Braxton, Soria, and Holland would be nothing short of epic.
this is why this is a good move...
because we know they won’t all be great…injuries and regressions are just a part of the game…good to plan for them
I am the one who knocks.
Because an awesome bullpen
Counts for nothing if you are 5 runs down after 4 innings.
Edgar knows best.
5/80 for edwin jackson?
6/110 for cj wilson?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions
I'd just like to point out
That the price is irrelevant. The Royals payroll is going to be low this year, again. Likely significantly lower—remember recent payrolls in the $70 million range.
The Royals could have given him $10 million for this year and it wouldn’t have mattered.
Opportunity cost
Money spent on him is money not spent elsewhere. For instance, the Royals got Chen and Broxton for $8.5M (plus incentives). They could have chosen to spend that on one player that is better than either, which probably would have made more sense. Or they could have banked it and saved it to spend on 2013.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions
what starting pitcher/any player i guess...
is going to sign for 2/12.5?
this wasnt the year for us to make a long term deal…these short term deals arent killers
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:10 PM EST up reply actions
and then call it the 'we dont have a 1st round pick for 2 years penalty'
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:16 PM EST up reply actions
All the good players will be playing football and basketball by then
According to doomsayers, so it won’t matter.
Edgar knows best.
I'm gonna side with the fan in me on this one...
I like moves that make the team better now, even if you don’t think we an compete for a playoff spot…if Gordon, Moose, Hosmer, Butler all have career years, we better have at least a few good pitchers to hold the fort down
I am the one who knocks.
That's assuming that they would have spent the money elsewhere.
Chen’s contract matters because we don’t know what Dayton will do or need next year. Broxton…I’m just not convinced the Royals are going to spend another $15 million this year. I could be wrong. But if the Royals aren’t going to spend much more, does it matter, really?
Also…I’m not an expert but I’m pretty sure that less payroll doesn’t equate to more payroll the next year, at least I don’t think so. By that logic, the Royals should have a $100 million payroll this year (taking a ballpark estimate of $70 million as the normal range). Wouldn’t it make sense to just pay the absolute minimum for years and then splash out with a $300 million payroll for a bit? Again, not terribly knowledgeable about complicated payroll implications.
No, it just shows that they COULD have spent the money elsewhere
But this is where they chose to spend it.
But if the Royals aren’t going to spend much more, does it matter, really?
I think it matters how they spend their scarse resources and whether they do it wisely or if another course would have been smarter.
Also…I’m not an expert but I’m pretty sure that less payroll doesn’t equate to more payroll the next year, at least I don’t think so.
It may well not. I’m talking about a smarter course that they could have taken.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
you still havent laid out that course...
and are ignoring my question of who better could we have brought in for the 2/12.5 that broxton and chen cost? good players sign long term deals for lots of money
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions
I have talked about preferring to not spend much on FA’s and saving that money for 2013. I haven’t offered specific FA possibilities that I would have spent $8.5M on. I haven’t really thought about it, as that isn’t my preferred course of action. I would have preferred a cheap one-year deal for someone like Bedard.
Are you suggesting that there isn’t a 2ish WAR FA out there that would sign for one-year and $5-9M?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
i'm guessing most 2+WAR who can get $5MM+
will either require multiple years to sign or have serious questions about their performance
Most, yes. But probably not all. And I’m just talking about a roughly 2 WAR player, not any of the 3+ WAR players.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
a guy who safely projects for 2 WAR?
probably not…it’ll be interesting to see what bedard gets…i bet he’ll get more than you think
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Hmmm.
You are right that they possibly could have used their money more efficiently and gotten a different player.
But I guess I would rather the Royals spend $4 million than not spend it. It still depends on what they are planning with their payroll, which we will never know, but I don’t think the money situation of this transaction will hurt the Royals at all, this year or next.
Payroll Update: ~$56 million
This would put the Royals right in the $55-$60 million that Dayton has previously mentioned as the sustainable payroll range. At least this has no effect on the 2013 payroll.
its annoying...but there's no reason to believe its true...
much more likely that he misspoke….they sustained payrolls over 70 million with shitty attendance and a shitty team
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:23 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think misspoke is the correct word.
Maybe underselling?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Yes, I think he was following the maxim of “underpromise and overdeliver.” The Royals and and have afforded a higher budget. I think they can and will spend in the 70’s and beyond in the not too distant future.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 1:27 PM EST up reply actions
yep...as long as they're not actually being that cheap...i dont give a shit what comes out of his mouth
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions
The rule of thumb
is that MLB teams can usually support spending on players around 50% of total revenue. This would include not just the salaries listed on Cot’s or in the annual USA Today article, but also things like health benefits and minor league player salaries and benefits. Forbes has the Royals revenue as follows:
2008 $131 million
2009 $143 million
2010 $155 million
2011 $160 million
interesting...
couple questions….how much do the health/milb salaries cost? where does the other 50% go? we know that glass is spending over 90% of the revenue on the team
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know off the top of my head
Forbes had recent total player expenses including benefits and bonuses at $74m, $83m, $94, and $90m the last four years.
The other 50% pays for the costs to operate a major league team and minor league system, non-player personnel and their benefits, marketing and advertising, massive travel expenses, office overhead, etc. And some teams do may more or less than 50%, as some teams take bigger profits and some teams take losses in a given year.
yeah...i guess i didnt really think about all the advertising and such
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
Or
Jin Wong's staff
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 29, 2011 3:26 PM EST up reply actions
I take it those include revenue sharing income?
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 29, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
I was hoping for news of a signing today, but not this one
It might actually be an alright deal. Broxton is a good player, so he might help us win a few games and be worth $4MM for 2012. He has name recognition so we may be able to move him at the deadline next year. Or maybe we trade Soria this offseason, which might be selling a little low, but if we can get a real prospect, it’d be hard not to like that kind of trade.
My problem is, I’m definitely in the “let’s build our team to contend in 2013-2016” crowd and I don’t see how this gets us there. Moreover, it might hurt those chances since another $4M off the payroll makes its that much less likely that a Gordon extension is gonna happen this offseason.
This feels like GMDM wanting another reclamation project. Or maybe Bud Selig told GMDM that it was time to start spending money, and GMDM is just throwing darts at his dartboard of free agents.
at least we got a guy to play Santa Claus now
time to find more elves
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV
Timmay!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:50 PM EST up reply actions
here's some good stuff on next years draft
http://mlb.mlb.com/mlb/prospects/watch/y2012/
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:17 PM EST reply actions
the photo of #6
Looks like a right-handed Jimmy Gobble.
We should trade for Vance Worley.
by JKWard on Nov 29, 2011 7:08 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I really don't get the payoff
If he playes well, he leaves for a bigger team and contract in 2013. Or we trade him at the deadline, except his new team would not be eligible for a comp pick which will surely supress his value.
And if he sucks. then he sucks.
Edgar knows best.
Rany thinks that it is a precursor to other moves
Which is a good point. To quote him from his twitter, “Spending $4 Million on Broxton instead of $480 K on Herrera makes no sense in a vacuum.”
by Yodazilla on Nov 29, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
and if he's good...and we're not competing...
good relievers still have value at the deadline…different player and different position but beltran couldnt be offered arb and he still brought back wheeler
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 1:26 PM EST up reply actions
I think kcbottom9th was sticking with realistic possibilities
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 1:31 PM EST up reply actions
I think a symptom of fanhood in general is that many of us tend to think that our team and its players are better than they really are. Are the Royals full of these good players that are going to help us win a bunch of games? And remember, I was responding to you saying “help us win a championship.” Think that’s realistic? Even if Broxton replicates his career best 2.8 WAR season?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
It’s not likely, but it’s possible. A division championship and a playoff ticket is about 10x more likely.
Not likely, but possible. And as I said, he was sticking with realistic possibilities. A championship for the Royals isn’t realistic unless you think a less than 1% chance is a “realistic possibility.” Also, I think not making the playoffs at all is about 10x more likely than a division championship and a playoff ticket.
Also, given your new found distrust of DIPS metrics, how good does the Royals rotation project to be using WHIP, ERA, FIPS or whatever it is you are now using to evaluate pitchers? And, how does that affect your estimate of how good this team will be?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I’ve never trusted DIPS stats. That’s a big reason that I prefer SIERA to FIP and xFIP. (SIERA adjusts BABIP and HR/FB rates according to trends with K%, GB% and FB%)
And the Royals rotation is not good. They need a starter better than Sanchez to have a real shot. If they get that, I think they’ve got about a 25% chance to win the AL Central. In that scenario, I’d give the Tigers about 35%, the Indians 20%, the White Sox 10%, and the Twins 5%.
I’ve never trusted DIPS stats. That’s a big reason that I prefer SIERA
You do know that SIERA is a DIPS metric, right? And I hope you understand that Mike Fast would say that SIERA is as broken as FIP, tERA or WHIP. SIERA certainly doesn’t give pitchers the credit/blame that Fast’s research thinks they should get for giving up hard hit balls. But are you sticking with SIERA anyway? Because if you reject other DIPS metrics as being no better than WHIP, then you must say the same of SIERA. Or are you elevating WHIP and H/9 to be important elements of your evaluation of pitchers? If so, you’re going to be using an evaluative process very different from (and I think obviously inferior to) the people who know pitching stats and sabermetrics much better than either you or me.
And the Royals rotation is not good. They need a starter better than Sanchez to have a real shot. If they get that, I think they’ve got about a 25% chance to win the AL Central. In that scenario, I’d give the Tigers about 35%, the Indians 20%, the White Sox 10%, and the Twins 5%.
First, are you assuming that the ALC champ wins at least 90 games? Because that’s actually lower than the average over the last 10 years. Second, what percentage chance do you give the Royals as thy are currently constituted?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 10:56 AM EST up reply actions
SIERA is a DIPS stat in the sense that it is defense-independent, but unlike FIP, xFIP, etc, it doesn’t make the critical mistake of assuming pitchers can’t significantly influence their BABIP. SIERA attacks BABIP indirectly by accounting for how BABIP correlates with GB%, FB% and K% in the league population. It’s not a perfect system—I think it undersells guys like Bruce Chen and Jamie Moyer whose talents aren’t easy to trend with the league—but it’s an improvement over the flat-BABIP stats. I suspect Mike would agree.
As currently constituted, maybe 10%? It’d take some breakouts from the young guys. If 3+ of Hosmer, Moose, Duffy, Perez, Gio, and Monty take big steps forward, the team will solid. But it’s not all that likely to happen that way.
but it’s an improvement over the flat-BABIP stats. I suspect Mike would agree.
Unless he’s given up hyperbole, I think he’d say that SIERA is as broken as other DIPS metrics and WHIP because it has what he sees as a massive flaw. It doesn’t appropriately assign blame to pitchers for hard hit balls. If you agree with Fast, as you argued before, that DIPS metrics are as broken as WHIP, then you must also concur that SIERA is as broken as all of the above. Didn’t you argue that we really don’t know how much influence pitchers have over balls in play? If so, the relatively minor tweaks SIERA makes with regard to this, shouldn’t make it immune to this massive flaw. Have you changed your position with regard to broken metrics? Or were you just playing devil’s advocate?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 5:40 PM EST up reply actions
First, your the one that used the term ‘broken’. I think that each of these stats has something to offer, and each of them is pretty close to reality. Plain old RA is pretty good.
[SIERA] doesn’t appropriately assign blame to pitchers for hard hit balls.
I don’t think you understand the stat. Right now, we don’t have a good way to measure how hard balls are hit, so what SIERA does is tries to get to that information through the back door. Pitchers that strike out a lot of people also tend to induce weaker contact which suppresses their BABIP-against. But we can’t measure quality of contact well, and BABIP data has too much noise to analyze an individual pitcher’s BABIP data directly.
So what SIERA does is it blows the sample way up to include the entire league such that BABIP is stabilized, and then it measures the correlation between K% and BABIP. SIERA then applies that league correlation to each pitcher in the population. So it accounts for quality of contact, but it does so indirectly.
First, your the one that used the term ‘broken’
I really don’t think that’s true. Early on the discussion, Fast posted the now famous “DIPS metrics are as broken as WHIP.” I don’t think anyone had broken the word “broken” before that.
I think that each of these stats has something to offer, and each of them is pretty close to reality.
Each of the DIPS metrics, or are you including WHIP too. If you are, what “reality” is it close to? It’s certainly close to walks + hits / IP. But it isn’t particularly close to a pitcher’s actual performance or talent.
Plain old RA is pretty good.
Under what circumstances? When you have tons of MLB data on a pitcher?
I don’t think you understand the stat.
Yes, I do. You appear to assume that it adequately tweaks the BABIP for each pitcher.
So it accounts for quality of contact, but it does so indirectly
It makes a move in that direction, but does so in a very, very limited way. It does the best it can with the information that is available, but I don’t think it gets you close to sufficiently accounting for quality of contact a pitcher gives up. It may be better than other DIPS metrics (at least in this regard, many of the the best of the sabermetric community have some serious reservations about it.). But it doesn’t come close to what Fast is looking for. I will say yet again, that he would say that it is just as broken as WHIP, and other DIPS metrics. It share the same flaw, which Fast (and you) saw in DIPS metrics. You can just assume that it’s BABIP tweaks make it “close enough” to appropriately accounting for quality of contact, but I don’t see what you’re basing that on. Because it does something in that regard? Fast would disagree.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions
I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be arguing against
Like I said, I wouldn’t call any of those metrics broken. They all give you information, but you need to understand the limits of that information. None of the stats available are perfect. All I said was that I prefer SIERA to FIP and xFIP because SIERA makes an effort to account for BABIP differences between pitchers.
If I’m supposed to be arguing against Fast’s opinion that SIERA (or other stats) are broken, here’s what he said the other day in response to you suggesting that he thinks DIPS stats are broken:
I have noticed that you tend to talk very black and white in terms of metrics being horrible and broken and useless, etc. I don’t see the baseball world that way. To start with, metrics like ERA (or RA/9) and WHIP and the DIPS metrics like FIP/xFIP/SIERA all have a lot of value. They all come close to the truth. The question is how close and which is better, not whether one is awful and useless and the other is perfect and true.
Fast has some unique opinions
I don’t think there’s another sabermetric analyst who thinks that WHIP “comes close to the truth” unless you’re talking about a very limited truth which doesn’t have much to do with the pitcher’s performance or talent. And of course ERA shows that truth only in limited circumstances. But’s fun to lump them all together and say they all at least pretty good.
No metric is “perfect and true.” But we also should recognize how much more valuable, reliable and meaningful some metrics are than others. Pretending they are all pretty good takes us backwards in our analysis, not forwards.
And of course, before criticizing me for saying that metrics are broken he said that “DIPS metrics are as broken as WHIP.”
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 1, 2011 11:00 AM EST up reply actions
I don’t think there’s another sabermetric analyst who thinks that WHIP "comes close to the truth" unless you’re talking about a very limited truth which doesn’t have much to do with the pitcher’s performance or talent.
I love when you speak for people.
And of course, before criticizing me for saying that metrics are broken he said that "DIPS metrics are as broken as WHIP."
Which I took to mean that they’re both flawed—not that they’re both useless. Then you hammered that term about 50 times in 5 different threads.
But we also should recognize how much more valuable, reliable and meaningful some metrics are than others. Pretending they are all pretty good takes us backwards in our analysis, not forwards.
I’m not really interested in a pissing match over which stats are better unless you’re bringing data to the table and trying to quantify the issue.
You like FIP. Okay. Its big limitation is that it ignores the influence pitchers have over their BABIP-against. xFIP also ignores the influence pitchers have over their HR/FB. Just know what the limitations of the stats are and use them correctly.
I love when you speak for people.
Nope, just relating my understanding of how the sabermetric community views WHIP. I don’t think I’ve seen a serious analyst evaluating a pitcher using WHIP for a decade or more.
Which I took to mean that they’re both flawed—not that they’re both useless. Then you hammered that term about 50 times in 5 different threads.
Equally flawed, apparently (“just as broken”). And it’s been pretty clear that WHIP is of very, very little value in evaluating a pitcher for a long time. So if the DIPS metrics are as broken as WHIP, then….they are horribly flawed and of little value, and that includes SIERA. As far as “hammering that term,” Fast made a very bold statement which required some significant defense from him, and then you when you (of course) defended it.
I’m not really interested in a pissing match over which stats are better unless you’re bringing data to the table and trying to quantify the issue.
A pissing match? Isn’t determining the relative value of various metrics crucial to evaluating players? And as far as data goes, there has been a ton of data supporting DIPS metrics for years. Are you laboring under the misconception that Fast’s study debunked all of that? The rest of the sabermetric community isn’t of that opinion, but what do they know.
You like FIP. Okay
Not exactly sure how I got put into this particular pigeon hole. I like FIP, xFIP, tERA and SIERA a lot. And at the same time, I don’t think they capture everything.
BTW, what do you think is the correct use of WHIP?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 1, 2011 3:16 PM EST up reply actions
Still don’t know what I’m supposed to be arguing. As Mike said, you seem to want everything in black and white terms where WHIP is useless and DIPS metrics are the only things worth considering. I don’t agree with that.
But I’m not going to convince you, and no one else will read this, so I’ll move on.
I guess I’m arguing for a recognition of the very, very, very limited value of WHIP, and that the research shows that DIPS metrics get you much closer to “the truth” that we’re looking for. Pretending that WHIP “gets you close” doesn’t lead to good analysis.
I asked you above how you would use WHIP. You never answered. I’d be interested in hearing how you’d incorporate it into your analysis (including something more than, “I’d look at everything.”)
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 2:35 AM EST up reply actions
If I wanted a thorough understanding of a pitcher, I’d be more inclined to look at the component stats in WHIP: BABIP, BB% and HR%. But if you want a quick way to look at find out how many baserunners a pitcher allows, WHIP is a fine way to go. It’s also a decent proxy for how effective a pitcher is overall, but there are better stats for that purpose.
When I’m trying to get a handle on a pitcher, I’ll look first at their ERA, FIP, xFIP and SIERA. Then I look at their BABIP and HR% to see if there’s anything unusual there over a significant sample. Then I look at their GB% and FB%.
Also, you should lay off WHIP. It’s defense-dependent and it includes a lot of variance from BABIP. Those are it’s limitations.
But it does get you pretty close to the truth. Here are the top 10 2011 WHIP leaders in order:
Verlander
Kershaw
Hamels
Weaver
Beckett
Cliff Lee
Dan Haren
Halladay
Shields
Fister
That list includes 7 of the top 10 in WAR.
It is a very, very blunt instrument which often takes you in the wrong direction
It’s a lot like batting average in that way. Yes, many good hitters will have high batting averages. But that doesn’t mean batting average is good way to evaluate a hitter. It gives you a little information, but there are better metrics which include the meaningful aspects of that stat and add in much more.
That list shows that many of the best pitchers have good WHIP’s. And yet you conclude from that that WHIP gets you “pretty close to the truth.” One does not prove or even good evidence of the other. The list of AL position players with a high IBB% includes many of the best hitters. That doesn’t mean it’s a good way to evaluate hitters, especially when there are many, many metrics which are much, much better.
The list of players with the most RBI includes most of the best hitters in baseball. Is that a good way to evaluate hitters? Heck, let’s use Dayton and Jin’s “runs created” (R+RBI). That gets us pretty close to the truth, right?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 1, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Not interested in trying to argue about how accurate WHIP is without data.
I’ll just note that the list of top performers in WHIP is quite similar to the list of top performers in fWAR (which is based on FIP), so if you hold that FIP gets you close to the truth, WHIP at least gets you close to close to the truth.
Having a similar group of top performers does not equaly "close to the truth"
We have much more accurate measures that get us much closer to the truth than that very, very blunt, old school, antiquated measure. And yet you champion it….for some odd reason. Either because you’re used to it, or because you like to argue against me, you just like playing devil’s advocate. It’s really a very poor way to evaluate a pitcher. Adding it to your analysis makes your analysis worse. But I look forward to your SIERA/WHIP breakdown of the Royals pitching staff. I hope it gets posted on The Book Blog.
That brings up a question. Why do you not care about the opinions of the best in the industry with regard to this sort of thing? And I’m certainly not talking about me. Evaluations of pitchers (and discussions of the best metrics) at The Book Blog, fangraphs, BPro (at least by their legitimate analysts), etc. almost never include WHIP, for pretty obvious reasons. But this has no effect on your opinion. Why is that?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Dec 1, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I thought he's still eligible for Type B free agency.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
i think type a and b will cease to exist
and in order to get player compensation you have to offer him a contract that would be in the top [i can’t think of the number off the top of my head] in baseball
the offer must exceed the average pay of the top 125 highest-paid players in baseball
also, they must have been with the team for the entire season to get compensation, which ends the trading for draft pick compensation.
yes
There are no more Type A or B. I think the number mentioned for next year is around $12.5 million. So if the team wants a comp pick, the team has to tender the player a one-year, $12.5 million contract. If the player refuses and signs elsewhere, the team gets the signing team’s first or second round pick (I think the top 10 draft picks are protected) and a supplemental first round pick.
I am unsure whether the player can only accept or reject the one-year $12.5 million or whether the salary would be determined by arbitration with the $12.5 million as the minimum a team can offer.
To many comments to read
My brain will soon explode.
Thoughts. Good move for us. Allows some of those pen guys to not have so much pressure and develop one more year. They did wear down at the end last year. Gives us more options for LOOGY/ROOGY matchups.
The other nice thing is that...
…Broxton is only 27. So he’s still in our youth movement range, really—-compared to the Yankees and other spend-high-for-veterans teams.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I Admit I
Was pleasantly surprised at this. He’s been around so long, I just assumed he was at least 30.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
SOS no longer fattest guy on team?
SOS = Ginger Shitpile. Broxton = shitpile elbow.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 29, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions
Overflow? This is starting to really lag. The idea that we’d need an overflow thread for a $4 million dollar signing of a middle reliever shows how awesome and/or pathetic and/or starved for news this community is.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 29, 2011 1:51 PM EST reply actions
In fairness
We’ve also discussed BBQ and Game of Thrones.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Yes
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 29, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
Broxton has never had a season
as good as Holland had last year.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
I have a feeling that KHAZAD wasn’t working with the hopes and dreams of him coming back to 100% or 90%. He was looking at the most likely result. Hell, if Lee Smith comes back to 100% of even 90%, then he’ll be better than both of them. Let’s take a flier on him!
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 29, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
Boston Herald
According to a baseball source, the Red Sox expressed interest in Broxton, either as a setup man or a closer option. But the former Los Angeles Dodgers closer wanted to sign before the winter meetings, which begin Monday in Dallas, and his timetable was "a little quicker than they were comfortable with" given his medical history, the source said.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Especially with all of our choices
It quite simply makes no sense to spend $4 million an a reliever. Broxton was bad and injured last year. He was showing signs of becoming less effective 2 years ago.
I guess I hate paying more for relief guys, especially those with “names you know.” I am not saying he could not come back and have a good year, I think the chances of him being worth over $4 million in a non closer role are small.
Relievers do jump up and have seasons that are worth more than that, but it is generally a surprise (Holland last year), you don’t pay for it ahead of time.
For all the crap people give Kyle Farnsworth on this site, he was a very effective reliever for a year and a half after the disastrous first week. He simply had no chance to be worth what Dayton paid him. Broxton’s best chance to be worth a $4 million investment involves a return to effectiveness combined with either an injury to Soria or a deadline deal to take advantage of his former closer status.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
by KHAZAD on Nov 29, 2011 3:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
interesting thoughts on crow the starter....
the comps are the most interesting
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/is-starting-aaron-crow-a-good-idea/
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 3:17 PM EST reply actions
Yes, interesting indeed.
I’m not sure if Crow will make a good starter. But the fan in me roots for him hardcore. Local kid, drafted as a starter, seems like a good guy…It would be a great success story.
Now Announcing
The Broxton Package: tickets to all of the Royals’ “All You Can Eat” nights for the low price of 300 lbs., I mean $300.
Not a bad move from Dayton.
If he’s healthy, he’s a top-tier reliever. If he’s not healthy, he’ll just rot on the DL all year. But if he can regain his 2008 or even his 2009 form, it’ll be huge. We’ll have one of the best bullpens in the A.L. But that’s a big if. This also makes me believe that Soria will either be dealt or be promoted to the rotation. And if he goes to the rotation, Crowe will either start down at Omaha, or in the bullpen in KC.
I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Nov 29, 2011 3:37 PM EST reply actions
This is a good move
To say that Dayton shouldn’t make the move because it wasn’t a “need” is bull. His job is to maximize his resources. With a small market team, you need to make a gamble on these players.
Step 1: Sign Broxton
Step 2: Sign Madson, and Bell…..and Capps, Cordero, and K-Rod…. and Aardsma and Rauch
Step 3: Have a monopoly on the closer market.
Step 4: Plaza Parade
(optional step 5: Set up Lemonade stand at Plaza Parade and MAKE $$$$$$$$$!!!)
NUmber 5 is a go
We signed Broxton to setup.
by liquorstoreclerk on Nov 29, 2011 10:52 PM EST up reply actions
It would be interesting if the Royals were to take advantage of the closer market as a market inefficiency.
If we did end up signing two or three more closers, it might pay off for us in the long run. We could sign several low risk/high reward pitchers that profile as closers, and try them out in the bullpen. After a month or so, we could deal a couple of them to a team that needs a closer/set-up man for a #1 starter.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
What team that needs a closer would give up a #1 starter to get one
If you can’t win the first 6 innings, there’s no point in locking down the 9th.
by KSinDC on Nov 29, 2011 7:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Taking advantage of the closer market as a market inefficiency
does not involve signing FA closers on the open market.
Any such inefficiency involves developing closers from prospects or low cost free agent relief pitchers, locking them up to long-term team friendly deals, and then trading them to clubs that are too lazy/dumb to develop their own closers through such means and/or teams that will overpay for something that is ephemeral (10th grade vocab lesson comin’ at ya!!!!) and not that hard to find.
Despite my lack of sarcasm font in my above comment, having a monopoly on the closer market is NOT something I advocate as a good thing.
The best way to take advantage of the market ineffieciency in the closer market
Is to trade Joakim Soria. Closers are massively overrated. If Jonathan Broxton didn’t have the “save” totals he did, he wouldn’t get any more money this winter than Michael Wuertz.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
I’m still hoping for a deal to Boston
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 30, 2011 12:44 AM EST up reply actions
Closes are overvalued on the open market
Taking advantage of the market inefficiency would be not paying millions for any closer, and instead going with a good reliever who doesn’t have the “closer” label as your team’s closer. Stockpiling guys who are overvalued because they have the closer label would be doubling down and being as inefficient as possible.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 10:59 AM EST up reply actions
sometimes I think of Jack Marsh as Don Quixote
which means Dayton Moore is his Sancho Panza, inevitably turning JM’s dragons into windmills, his princesses into farm-girls, and his Gio Gonzalezes into Jonathan Broxtons.
by Loose Seal on Nov 29, 2011 7:47 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
but he can't give Jack Marsh wine and other ardent spirits
that old alcohol to minors thing…
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
A Quick Google
Says this about bone spurs and pitchers:
http://www.throwinginjuries.com/Bone%20Spurs.htm
If the inflammation generated by the collisions of the bones is not quieted by anti-inflammatory medications then a simple surgery can remove the spurs. The surgery is most often arthroscopic and the recovery a few months.
Anyone know what treatment he has had?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
OK, I'll Answer
4:40 PM: Jonathan Broxton hasn’t pitched early May because of elbow problems and earlier this week the Dodgers officially ruled him out for the season, but now Dylan Hernandez of the Los Angeles Times reports that he’s "considering a minor operation to shave down a bone spur and remove loose bodies."
According to Hernandez recent tests showed that the bone bruise in Broxton’s elbow has healed, so doctors now believe his continued pain is due to bone spurs.
Apparently the initial exams back in May showed those as well, but determining which specific issue was causing him the most problems was impossible until the bone bruise was gone. Bone spur removal typically doesn’t come with a very long recovery time, but it certainly won’t help the impending free agent’s quest to secure more than an incentive-laden one-year deal on the open market.
This was on 9/16/11.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 8:49 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, The Googles
Make light work of this.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
Oh no.
Dutton:
Hearing Toronto interested in Holland (not Soria) from #Royals. Other clubs, too, but Royals are not inclined to deal unless overwhelmed.
Dayton had to be overwhelmed. Okay.
That’s not so bad. It would take a ridiculous price, right? What’s overwhelming, Randy Wolf?
You Can Never
Have too many Porn Name All Stars on the team. Holland does get us Dutch girls, though.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
how do we all feel about holland for rasmus if that were to be the deal?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 9:14 PM EST up reply actions
i'm not the biggest fan of rasmus
but a deal somewhere on those lines would be appealing. i’d rather have it be for a SP or 2B. i’m gonna take a wild guess and say dustin ackley is off limits.
no, i wasn't limiting it to just the blue jays
just a holland for another young player deal from any team.
he probably would if he had a negative FIP like edwin carl
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Eh, he's not a bad target, but so young that he demands a high price.
I think the Royals are going to take their chances with homegrown talent.
I have an irrational attachment to Holland
I just think he could be another Heath Bell. And Rasmus… I just don’t trust him to be consistent.
Further Dutton
GM Dayton Moore says #Royals committed to giving Lorenzo Cain a long look next season as their starting center fielder.
yeah...thats probably the most likely...but if someone's gonna give us rasmus for a RP...gotta take it
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 29, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
4th OF Situation
Solved.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 29, 2011 9:40 PM EST up reply actions
If you're implying that MITCH!
can be a 4th outfielder AND a relief pitcher, well that’s so crazy it just might work
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