Using the Absurd But Still Really Fun and Also Kinda Believable Aaron Crow and Ke$ha Rumor and Also Broxton's Hunting Trip To Understand the Royals Bullpen
by Freneau on Nov 29, 2011 11:44 PM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintWe know nothing. That's where we've got to start. Seriously, we have know idea. Dayton Moore is inscrutable. Signing then not trading then extending Frenchy was some kind of weird double-reverse trolling of us. That was the end of certitude. Every Royals blogger alive speculated about who the Royals would sign or trade for this fall and so far all of us are 0 for 2. No one saw the Sanchize become a Royal. We cannot understand this man. Sign Broxton to make Crow a starter even though Crow pretty clearly won't be good and oh yea Broxton most likely isn't good and we're doing this in November. I get it.
Well, except I don't.All we know is that the timing will be rushed and Bruce Chen is a Royal for life. Outside that, we're starting from, or rather we should start from, pure Cartesian doubt. Maybe some evil demon has created this elaborate trick of existence just to toy with us.
Here's what we know:
- Aaron Crow was once said to be dating Ke$ha. A few posts on a Mizzou message board and a thing of wikipedia for a few hours is our evidence. It's not much, but we started the Spanish-American War on less evidence. For now, it's solidly believable. They are one, they are in love. Ke$ha-¢row.
- Jonathan Broxton went hunting with Francoeur and Ned Yost. Did anyone else see Yost as a hunter? Anyway, we're recreating our mental universe here. They hunted, they talked, they probably spit often and felt cold and then killed things. Ned Yost leads men.
- Joakim Soria is from Mexico.
- ...
- (Thinking)
OK Good, we're building something. The bullpen is coming together. I can see a design. What we know that we know is a dating rumor and a hunting trip. Ke$ha tells me ¢row is ready for prime time, or also that Soria may be traded. The Royals are paying Broxton $4 million for no real reason, but saving $25,000 on canning Fanfest is really sound. Broxton is ready to turn his career around and also hunt.
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Ke$ha-¢row.
I love this.
The state of fashion/personal appearance/grooming for Major League players has never been lower.
Um, have you never seen pictures of the 1970s?
Your rant at the end reminds me of Charlie’s conspiracy rant at the end of the “Its Always Sunny in Philadelphia” where he and Mac work in the mail room. “Pepe Silva! Pepe Silva!”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 29, 2011 11:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
This is what I would picture Dayton Moore doing if I ever got the chance to meet him:
Jack: “Hey there, Mr. Moore. So, I see you Signed Jonathan Brox-”
Dayton: Starts hyperventilating
Jack: “What is it? Are you oka-”
Dayton: “THE CLUBHOUSE CANCERS.”
Jack: “…What?”
Dayton: “THE CANCERS. THEY’RE BACK. THEY’RE INVADING MY MAGICAL CLUBHOUSE LAND.”
Jack: “…So you really are insane, aren’t you..?”
Dayton: “What? Me, insane? NO! THE CLUBHOUSE CANCERS MUST HAVE GOTTEN TO YOU.” Charges me and tackles me to the ground, then rolls off of me
Jack: “GAHHHH!!!!!”
Dayton: Rolls on floor in fetal position “…Must …trade …. for Nick Swisher…. Must…”
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
I really expected to find a picture of Yost hunting with Ryan Klesko
Still confused on why Google couldn’t find that.
Chen says he left guaranteed dollars on the table to be a Royal
Discuss.
by WURoyal on Nov 30, 2011 12:30 AM EST via mobile reply actions
He literally left several dollar bills sitting on his kitchen table to sign the contract
Don’t worry. They’re in his wallet now.
by dejezeus on Nov 30, 2011 1:35 AM EST up reply actions 4 recs
Careerwise maybe a good move
Wrigley is basically HR neutral, which are Chens nemesis, and the K probably helps him a lot with his pitching style.
With the Royals he might pitch another 4-5 years, with the cubs I doubt he’d be in the league at the end of his contract.
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
That is absolutely hilarious
And as realistic as a Jack Marsh fantasy.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
I don't think it's unrealistic
Chen definitely had interest. Then again, just because somebody was willing to pay more for him, doesn’t mean we got a good deal.
maybe he get a commission on every "C'mon Chen!" t-shirt sold
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
You think it is realistic that he turned down more guaranteed money to sign with the Royals?
I’m sorry, but that’s nuts.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
Really? name-calling?
I mean…I am nuts, but for reasons other than my logic and gullibility.
But, if you think Bruce Chen (or any professional athlete…or any human being for that matter) only bases important life decisions on financial considerations, you’re missing out on a large part of life that can’t be quantified with a dollar sign.
Saying a particular idea is nuts is not calling you nuts. And no I don’t think professional sports players often turn down an additional $1M (especially when it is an additional 11%). I think it’s quite rare. I think fans love to think that players make decisions based on love of the team and espirt de corps, but I think that romantic unreality.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
Well,
Your sentence included “you think” and “[Chen] turned down…”, and then concluded “that’s nuts”. I think the reasonable person would interpret your statement to mean that both Chen (for turning down $) and me (for believing Chen) are nuts.
If you elaborated on your thoughts (i.e. “it’s rare that players turn down $1M or 11%”) , or why you disagreed with my assertions and underlying facts, there would be less confusion.
Nothing personal against you, most of your comments are supportable/supported, but that one and other ones today seemed pretty petulant and unsupportable. I think we’re all a little upset at GMDM right now, but no need to take it out on one another.
True enough
Let us move on to a better, brighter tomorrow. I’m sure Moore will pull of a great Soria trade which will make us all feel much better. Please God…
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 9:15 PM EST up reply actions
i love that every time someone says something you disagree with, they're lying
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 30, 2011 12:35 PM EST up reply actions
What are you talking about?
I always say that people are lying? No, I often disagree with opinions and analysis. But yes, I don’t believe Chen is telling the truth if he’s saying that he turned down more guaranteed money to sign with the Royals. Why would he do that? Because he’s fallen in love with Kansas City? Because he’s a true, blue Royal at heart? Because he really loves these guys like a family, and gosh it really isn’t about the money to Bruce Chen….and the agent that he chose, Scott Boras. Come on, Billy. This isn’t rocket science.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions
I dunno...
Lets say he turned down around half a million overall… He’s already made more money than he’ll ever need. So its not that ridiculous to think he likes KC enough to stay, especially as someone else said he may believe most of his “good” performance is tied to the K.
The money just isn’t that big of a deal to some people.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
by averagegatsby on Nov 30, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
Mellinger tweeted that it was at least a million
I think it is rare for professional sports players to think money isn’t that big of a deal and turn down an offer that is more than 11% higher.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions
Scott....what did I say yesterday.....
There is nothing to argue, as you’ve already won it….bask is your superior glory….
That is all.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
One factor to take into account is the tax rate. He may get raped in Illinois.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 30, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
He may get raped in Illinois.
And also have to pay more taxes.
by OnixConcepcion on Nov 30, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
And relative cost of living.
I’m sure it’s not that significant, but I’d imagine his home (making an assumption he has a home in KC) is much nicer than that money would be able to afford him in the Chicago Metroland.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 1, 2011 7:12 PM EST up reply actions
hmmm
I think Chen and GMDM met for lunch at Chili’s. While there, they agreed to a contract, but Moore made Chen pay the bill and leave a tip.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Nov 30, 2011 11:47 AM EST up reply actions
Panama, Panama, Panama
I was actually looking at Chen’s BR page the other day and noticed it listed panama three times. Panama City, Panama is actually referred as just Panama in Panama, but it odd to see it listed as such outside of Panama. The second panama refers to the province in which Panama (ie Panama City is located), which is named Panama.
How is no one sponsering the Bruce Chen page?
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
by averagegatsby on Nov 30, 2011 12:37 AM EST up reply actions
Oh because its $180... What the What!?!
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
by averagegatsby on Nov 30, 2011 12:38 AM EST up reply actions
Jesus!
I sponsored Mitch’s page and it was only, like, $21 for the year.
thinking: I probably should re-up on that
"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"
- Crow T. Robot
So he lives in Panama, Panama, Panama?
That makes me want to see Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
This is correct...
Bruce was born in Panama City, in the provice of Panama, in the Republic of Panama.
by Discolando on Nov 30, 2011 2:05 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Also
His favorite song is “Bad Company” from the album Bad Company by the band Bad Company
by OnixConcepcion on Nov 30, 2011 6:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
But what style of hat does he prefer to wear? And what’s his favorite Van Halen song?
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 30, 2011 5:25 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I had always thought he was from
A Man A Plan A Canal Panama
if only Major Major Major
was from Panama, Panama, Panama
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Nov 30, 2011 11:31 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
hey, you're leaving out a Major...
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
Panamanians have the same level of imagination
as your typical Royals GM….
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
I'm suddenly reminded at how stupid the state of Oklahoma is again.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
Reminds me of the guy who used to sell...
“lemonade, lemonade, lemonade, woooooo!”
That information is somewhat classified.
You know, that's a bit of a lie
There are a lot of times I don’t get it, but this one I really don’t get
I had the misfortune of seeing the Yost hunting video
because one of you bastards posted it way back at the start of the 2011 season. Tried to unsee it. Couldn’t. Changed my view of Yost forever, although I’m not sure how. Also, I really, really, really wish I’d thought of the Ke$ha-¢row thing. Of course, I didn’t know how to make the cent symbol until I looked it up on Google just now. Ah, c’est la vie.
¢'est la vie
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
by mazoboom on Nov 30, 2011 5:10 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Forget about it, Will...
"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"
- Crow T. Robot
She's my sister! She's my daughter!
She’s my sister AND my daughter!
by OnixConcepcion on Nov 30, 2011 6:35 PM EST up reply actions
rec’d for title alone.
Have yet to read the rest, but by sliding down here to the bottom so I could post this comment, I saw a still-shot of Serpico enumerating the various appearances of the dubious name “Pepe Silvia,” and I’m sure that I would rec again if I could.
"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"
- Crow T. Robot
I posted a video of Yost hunting when he was with MIL
He was more emotional in that video(as in, he looks excited after the kill), unlike his very indifference vibe now we see in interviews
I am probably the only Royals fan in Hong Kong?
by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on Nov 30, 2011 2:39 AM EST reply actions
I've got a reliable source that says Ke$ha dumped Crow when he moved to the bullpen.
My cousin’s bestfriend played softball with Aaron Crow’s brother’s college roomate. He told me that Ke$ha only dates starting pitchers.
by spamiam79 on Nov 30, 2011 8:11 AM EST via mobile reply actions
looks like they could be on-again/off-again
PRMLB: Making the Royals relevant
by I_Am_Marshall on Nov 30, 2011 8:31 AM EST up reply actions
This shouldn't get lost here:
The Royals are paying Broxton $4 million for no real reason, but saving $25,000 on canning Fanfest is really sound.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Canned Fest Should
Become a huge grass roots movement. Occupy The Plaza!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 30, 2011 9:23 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs
A perfect compliment to the Royal's Wives Food Drive
how demeaning is that, by the way? I figured Butler’s wife would at least have a feminist bone in her body….perhaps cooking, backing, and frying meals for Tater Tot consumes too much of her time to fully digest the works of Bell Hooks and Judith Butler.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 30, 2011 9:41 AM EST up reply actions
what about Evelyn Waugh?
She’s great!!
"Shot by my own men."
by StonewallPDS on Nov 30, 2011 11:17 AM EST up reply actions
She married
George Elliot, right?
by billexgordler on Nov 30, 2011 12:10 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
She did read Judith Butler
she’s now engaging in a totally subversie parody.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 30, 2011 4:25 PM EST up reply actions
Seriously, who can read Judith Butler?
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 30, 2011 5:57 PM EST up reply actions
I don't even know who Judith Butler is.
But I honestly don’t read many female writers, which is a fault, but their perspective/style is typically not that appealing to me. I do like Flannery O’Connor.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 1, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
i read books like crazy...i dont read female authors...
i cant stand the vast majority of female musicians…its odd
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Dec 1, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions
Judith Butler = non fiction, feminist theory, philosophy, all things academe
My sister is getting her PhD in Education, something to do with how wimmen’s are virtually absent from Social Studies curricula, etc….Judith Butler is her home girl. HOWEVER, Judith Butler is also singled out for writing her theoretically brilliant ideas in such a stereotypical academic vernacular, that the meaning of her supposedly piercing insight virtually disappears in her verbose verbosity, and her arcane vocab. Fucking academics? The world is going to shit, and where are these gods of thought? Thinking of new ways to poke at their own glorious God damn navels. But I digress. Sadly, its me three on the female authors. Flan O’Connor is the shit. Willa Cather. Sure. Joan Smiley? Horse Heaven I liked, prob on account of my degenerate horse playing jones. A Thousand Acres was pretty damn good, but its a rehash of Bill Shakespeare. And I’ll take some Neko Case. But other than those, yeah, its slim pickins.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 1, 2011 8:50 PM EST up reply actions
Really? Not even Ursula LeGuin?
I love the Earthsea books.
And of course, Neko is amazing. If I were a lesbian she’d be the one I’d want to make out with. Actually, I want to make out with her anyway.
I too want to make out with Neko Case, too.
As for Ursula LeGuin, I’m not a fantasy guy. It’s not something I’m necessarily about which I am particularly happy or proud, but rather a reluctant statement of fact. My tastes in literature are extremely and perhaps sadly phallocentric.
BTW, isn’t it Jane Smiley? Are you not confusing Joan Didion with Jane Smiley? I have heard good things about Didion.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 1, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, it's Jane
Kind of underlines the point re: women authors. I think Smiley is tied to the Iowa U writers thing…maybe? If we’re all making out with Neko Case, I’d like to sign up. No that it matters one jot, but is she a lesbian? I’d guess yes.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 1, 2011 10:34 PM EST up reply actions
I don't think so but I don't really know one way or the other.
I just feel like I’ve read her talking about an ex-boyfriend, but it’s not a specific memory.
I'm 90% sure she's not.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 1, 2011 11:31 PM EST up reply actions
Everything is so easy for Pauline
she left her sweater on the train, and margaret lost 3 fingers at the cannery
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 1, 2011 11:52 PM EST up reply actions
I was trying to be funny/aggro feminist over the fact that they refer to themselves as Royal's "Wives" . . . .
you know, they aren’t really human, except for the fact that they are married/appendages/sex objects of and for their glorious Male husbands…..they don’t even have names, thoughts, or desires beyond their baseball God/superman husbands interests, success, failures, and batting practices. They are collectively known as the Royals Wives. Food drives are mos def a good thing. Unless you are into Ayn Rand.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Nov 30, 2011 11:26 PM EST up reply actions
I can't tell if you guys are just fucking around with this or not.
Granted, I assume baseball wives are not the bastion of feminism that other groups of women may be, but in this case since that is a) why we notice they exist and b) their relationship to each other I don’t think by identifying themselves as such when doing a Royals-sponsored food drive that it is really a blow to feminism.
I'm not completely fucking around
I think the moniker “Royals Wives” is a tad old school, and I find it a bit derogatory. But what the hell do I know? Sports certainly aren’t known for being on the bleeding edge of gender politics, and it’s just a minor whine from me…but I don’t think its a stretch to assume some women would find the “Royals Wives” tag as irritating.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 1, 2011 11:57 PM EST up reply actions
I hear what you're saying, I'm just not agreeing in this one particular instance.
I’m just not sure what else they’d call themselves. Royals Friends and Family? I mean, if my husband’s work were doing a charity drive and I got a team of others together who were also tangentially related to his work…I don’t see a problem with that. But since a professional baseball team is all men, their family is “Wives” since baseball doesn’t seem to be a very gay-friendly work environment.
Now the tv show “Baseball Wives” and those people who take being “a baseball wife” as their whole identify (I think Kim DeJesus referred to them as “cleat chasers” in a tweet recently), yeah I don’t see that as really great for any part of the human race, whether male or female, but people who go about their lives coming together because of this relationship to benefit this cause, I’m just not seeing a problem with that.
But reading over your comments and mine again, I think maybe the difference in our opinion here is that I’m just looking at this tiny little episode (the food drive being chaired by the wives of the Royals players) and you’re talking about the bigger culture of “sports wives.” So all this blah blah and blah and I think we actually agree on that part. And if I’m wrong, that’s okay. Won’t be the first time today.
I understand what you be saying Grossest
I don’t feel that strongly about it, and hey, last I checked I’ve got man parts. Let me check again. Yes. Still manly. Hence, my opinion should likely be greatly discounted. Actually, my opinion should be discounted on a great many things, with the exception of current events and politics.
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Dec 2, 2011 9:58 PM EST up reply actions
Hey now! Having a penis doesn't necessarily make your opinion invalid.
Actually, I would love it if more men were concerned with “the feminist agenda.” I think the worst thing for women’s rights and women’s quality of life is for it to be seen as a woman’s issue. It’s a human issue and if it effects your mother, wife, sister, daughter than it affects you.
Anyway, I really did appreciate you going to that place, just didn’t necessarily understand it at first.
And Alex's wife.
She seems like she’s pretty well educated and should be bashing this shit.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 1, 2011 7:14 PM EST up reply actions
she's not all that smart...
i spent a couple of nights with her through a mutual friend
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Dec 1, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions
Occupy OP Convention Center
Demand autographs and pocket schedules
by brandonh981 on Nov 30, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
So...trading Soria straight up for Rasmus would be pretty stupid, right??
Surely we need more than that…right? I mean, one slightly off year surely doesn’t drive his value down this low…does it?
Killing time until time kills me
Given how GMs everywhere overvalue closers, I feel we could do better than Rasmus, yes.
Three years of team control left on Soria, for a guy who has had one good offensive season but was really terrible last year..and UZR has him as awful defensively the past two seasons.
Rasmus’ value is really low right now and I feel we could do better than Soria on the trade market. Yes, I know everyday players will accumulate more WAR than Soria, but everyone knows GMs don’t compare WAR totals when making trades. The market-value for elite closers is much higher it is for a guy with character issues, coming off an awful year and a complete unknown.
I’m not saying I don’t want Rasmus, I like his potential..but his value is a lot lower than Soria’s right now, in my opinion.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Nov 30, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions
Soria isn't cheap anymore
Which people seem to overlook. He’ll make $6m next year, then $8m then $8.75m.
The days of him being a bargain stud are well past.
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Nov 30, 2011 11:58 AM EST up reply actions
Bargain is a thing of the past
Let’s hope he will at least return to being a stud.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 30, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
He has the option to block a trade to 6 teams
Yankees, Red Sox, Phillies, Rockies, Dodgers, Braves. Interesting list. Not that he’d actually block a trade to any of these teams. Cot’s said Soria’s list also originally included the Tigers, Cardinals, and Cubs.
Those salaries seem right in line with what closers cost...
..and a lot cheaper than guys like Papelbon and Rivera..and probably some others. No, he’s not a bargain anymore, but he’s not overpaid either.
Killing time until time kills me
Rasmus has more surplus value
Compare cost and likely WAR.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
Do you really think GMs sit down and talk about WAR when discussing trades?
I think you are fooling yourself if you do. We aren’t talking about whether you and I or Dave Cameron would trade Soria for whoever, we are talking about the market among major league GMs, the guys who actually set the market and make the moves.
If sabermetric principles drove the market entirely and all trades were made according to WAR, then I’d see your point, but that’s not the reality. Thus, we have to consider how other GMs value closers, not how WAR values them..and considering the huge money closers often get, I think GMs value closers WAY more than people like you and me do. Thus…we should make our evaluations of trade possibilities based on their perceptions, not their WAR totals.
Killing time until time kills me
I think that FO’s that are very stat friendly use some kind of metrics like WAR. It is undoubtedly their own variation of it, which would have essentially the same components but using their own data for those components.
Yes, I do think closers are still overvalued on the market. But I think very good GM’s like AA recognize that the total contribution of someone like Rasmus is greater than Soria. Higher ceiling and higher likely production.
Perhaps I put too much faith in AA, but I really think he is one of the better GM’s and has pulled off some great trades. I don’t see him making this kind of mistake.
But my point in the surplus value comment really wasn’t that the trade definitely won’t happen. It was just pointing out that Rasmus has more real value (given production and cost) than Soria.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions
I agree that many FO's are becoming more and more stat friendly.
I just think there is still a lot more to the equation to consider when evaluating trade possibilities. On pure sabermetric principles, trading Soria for Rasmus makes sense, I agree with that fully. However, when I consider other factors (namely the massive overvaluing of closers), I think trading Soria right now for just Rasmus would be silly. I think dangling him at the deadline when teams are way more desperate to try and save their season/make a playoff push is way smarter.
I also agree with you that I don’t see AA making this mistake. As I said earlier, I don’t think this trade makes sense for either teams and I highly, highly doubt the rumor has much validity at all. I just think on the Royals side of things, they can get the most value from Soria at the deadline, which is why I think just trading him now would be too soon and silly.
Killing time until time kills me
I'm leaving for Vegas tomorrow and am busy the rest of today, so if Soria does get moves for Rasmus, I'll have to catch up on Tuesday. Look forward to it.
Killing time until time kills me
Let me know what kind of odds the sportsbooks are giving on the Royals to win the 2012 Series
Especially if you’re in the Palms book. If they’re better than 40-1 then we’ll know that Vegas loves the Broxton signing.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 30, 2011 4:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I just don't know quite what Soria's value is on the trade market
Could he get more than Rasmus? Maybe. In part, that depends on how you view Rasmus. The bad 2011 season is a data point, but so are the 2.8 WAR and 4.3 WAR seasons that preceded it. I think he’s basically a proven 3 WAR player with upside (especially if his manager is smart enough to use him as an everyday player). And he’s got three cost controlled years of team control remaining. I don’t think the Royals are going to get more than that for Soria.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions
Have you ever heard of a closer being traded for a quality every day starter?
No way just Soria gets your Rasmus, let alone Rasmus + parts.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 30, 2011 11:07 AM EST up reply actions
Lots of people on here sure did believe that Jesus Montero was a possible acquisition for Soria..and he's apparently the greatest prospect of all time (slight exaggeration).
I don’t see how us getting Montero for Soria was believable, but now there’s no way Soria could get you Rasmus.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Nov 30, 2011 11:46 AM EST up reply actions
It wasn't believable though
Unless Cashman had a stroke or something.
The discussion was over whether Dayton had rejected it. if it had even been offered. If he did, he was even more of a moron than Cashman for offering. But it doesn’t mean it was ever actually on the table (i’d be shocked if it was).
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Nov 30, 2011 12:00 PM EST up reply actions
Sure, I don't know if it was actually on the table.
but I doubt the rumor was just a complete lie either. Point is, I think GMs are willing to move a good player for a closer…and I think DM could do better than Rasmus. I don’t see Rasmus as a surefire quality player. His defense has blown ass the past two seasons and he was miserable at the plate last season. He’s had one good year with the bat..so have a ton of other players. He’s got potential, no doubt, but to act like he’s already a good starting player is going a little too far, I think.
Killing time until time kills me
Perhaps
But Soria has warts too. He’s not as cheap as Rasmus, he has had nagging minor injuries, he had some performance issues mid-season, and he only pitches 60-70 innings a year.
Look at what teams generally receive as compensation for trading closers. The return generally isn’t that great.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
And Soria's production is effectively capped at around 2.5 WAR
A good closer can sometimes get to 3 WAR, but is usually around 2 WAR (or less). Even with high leverage, there’s only so much you can give your team in 70 innings. Rasmus’s WAR ceiling, and quite frankly his likely WAR production is higher.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
You can talk about sabermetrics all you want, but only talking about them ignores the reality of the MLB market.
Until MLB GMs all use WAR to accept or decline trade proposals, your arguments ignore a huge portion of reality.
Killing time until time kills me
Sure, I don't mean to say Soria would bring back a huge return...
..I just think DM could get more if he dangled Soria at the trade deadline and a team desperate for bullpen help would offer something more. I am basing my position that DM could get more on the fact that some GMs will be desperate around the trading deadline and closers/elite relievers are always in demand…and it wouldn’t surprise me in the least to see some GMs offer more than a player of Rasmus’ potential/value. My argument has nothing to do with comparing the value of Rasmus vs. Soria.
Killing time until time kills me
A position player prospect is very different from a good MLB SP
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Honestly last year prior to the deadline,
I kinda figured we’d get Soria for Rasmus straight up at that point. The Cards were kinda desperate for a real closer and they hated Rasmus. It made sense then, but I don’t think the Blue Jays are that dumb. If it was one for one I’m all in on the deal.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Dec 1, 2011 11:02 AM EST up reply actions
Petro is talking about this right now
He makes a decent case for trading Soria or Holland, but keeps harping on the Myers for Jurrjens thing because “it’s time to start winning”. When was it not time to start winning? Over the past 15 years the Royals have made lots of moves, big and small, to try to win games, instead of trying to accumulate as much young talent as possible in the system.
I agree Soria straight up doesn’t get you Rasmus, though the money and team control match up pretty well. AA bought low, and I seriously doubt he would sell low even after Rasmus’ disappointing end to 2011. His CF of the future is probably a year away, and it would make sense to give Rasmus the ABs instead of Davis or Patterson and then weigh options at the deadline or next offseason.
I agree about AA not really having a huge desire to move Rasmus.
I don’t think the trade makes sense for either side. The Jays probably shouldn’t move Rasmus so soon and I think the Royals could get more for Soria, perhaps at a trading deadline, given how GMs frequently blow their load at the deadline as they fight for a playoff spot.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Nov 30, 2011 11:57 AM EST up reply actions
Why the *&(#$ is Petro so obsessed with Jurrjens?
If he was just saying “I think we should trade Myers for starting pitching”, then I could see the argument (assuming he threw out better candidates than Jurrjens). But banging on this ridiculous “Myers for Jurrjens” drum is really dragging Petro down a few notches into “typical idiot sports radio guy”.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 30, 2011 11:59 AM EST up reply actions
Jurrjens had a 2.96 ERA last season.
Now who's the idiot sports radio guy
(3.99/4.23 FIP/xFIP, both worse than league average, for 1.5 WAR in 152 IP)
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 30, 2011 12:02 PM EST up reply actions
oh...and it wasnt just myers...it was myers AND cain for jurrjens that he was pumped to do
he kept asking ‘does this make the 25 man roster better?’ someone said, ‘yeah, marginally’…while petro completely ignored the 7 years of myers
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 30, 2011 12:39 PM EST up reply actions
ERA undoubtedly a good WHIP too
And since DIPS stats have been debunked, Jurrjens is probably good now!
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 30, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
Petro has been losing me, lately...
and your comments tell me why. He hasn’t been as sharp on the baseball stuff.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
The Ke$ha thing was made up
My friend ‘dated’ aaron for a while earlier in the year. He said that he and his friends made the thing up as a joke.
$orry to spoil anyones dreams with this revelation.
by Boots 58 on Nov 30, 2011 11:13 AM EST via mobile reply actions
WAIT!!!
Your friend “dated” him… “HE SAID”!?!?! But But… That would mean…
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
by averagegatsby on Nov 30, 2011 3:42 PM EST up reply actions
My friends a female
It should have read “Aaron said that he and…”
by Boots 58 on Nov 30, 2011 5:15 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Why wouldn't he fabricate a rumor about dating someone hot then?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Dec 1, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
No one "dates" Ke$ha
At least not for more than one night. Then the next day you head to the clinic for a shot.
Hey Dayton.....
¢row is getting some Ke$ha….cuzz she likes taller guys….
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
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