The Theory and Practice of Trading Wil Myers
The latest brush fire to burn across the dry high plains of the internet was sparked by trade rumors involving Royals super prospect Wil Myers. Reportedly the Atlanta Braves are interesting in acquiring Myers, possibly in exchange for Jair Jurrjens. Naturally, the potential first ever Jair-Wil trade in history is itself noteworthy, although that undersells the possibility that a same exchange once took place in a Amsterdam night club, which I argue is plausible. (Would "Wils" count?)
No, Wil Myers is a top prospect, and in 2011 that means he is a very famous person. We don't know how likely a Wil Myers trade is, but should it happen, it would be one of the biggest Royals stories of the last five or six years. Wil Myers was ranked the #10 prospect in the game by Baseball America prior to the 2011 season and there is a class of fan who will be upset if he is traded for the #10 player in the American League this winter.
My sense is that most hardcore Royals fans would be against a Myers trade. I don't think "against" is a strong enough word to describe their opinions on a Myers-Jurrjens trade. I think we're right to feel this way, at least about Jurrjens. However, although I don't trust Dayton Moore on the market, I think a potential Wil Myers trade is a tremendous opportunity for the franchise. Given the right offer, I think the Royals should be highly interested in trading Wil Myers. As with all things, the execution matters. My contention is that more scenarios than those assumed by my fellow hardcore Royals fan on sites like this one are potential boons for the Royals than might be assumed. The market, I believe, has shifted so far in valuing prospects that even small-market teams like the Royals should look closely at maximizing assets like Myers on the trade market. Now, I understand that this reads like a truism, like blather, like milquetoast conventional wisdom. It is. Or it should be. Right now, so is the idea that top prospects are sacred.
In the last decade two developments, mostly unrelated, conspired to change the way we view prospects like Myers. The first was the continued explosion of baseball writing on the internet, which at this point seems to have reached a point of full saturation. There are baseball websites about fantasy sports, about uniforms, about baseball cards, about team histories, about the cutest players, about their wives and girlfriends. There are serious sites and sites that try to make you laugh and sites in between. And in this universe, there are is a wide array of sites about minor league players and amateur prospects. There are at least two blogs dedicated soley to Royals prospects alone. But it isn't just blogs. Mainstream providers also have virtual space to fill, and with more and more information readily available, they're also ready to talk prospects. I was a pretty big baseball fan growing up in the 1980s and 1990s and here are the prospects I can remember knowing about before they became rookies: Todd Van Poppel and Ben McDonald. The latter, I think, I only knew about because of his baseball card. Not too long ago, all of these guys were simply "minor leaguers" in your local paper. Now, they're people that people know about.
Secondly, within baseball itself, it gradually dawned on everyone that an elite player paid on MLB's strange pre-set pre-free-agency pay scale was the single most valuable commodity in the game and perhaps the most valuable commodity in sports. Each major American sport now has some kind of rookie pay scale, but no others go so far as to dictate that all rookies be paid the league minimum. This realization transcends the new school/old school divide as well as the various gradations of small, medium, and large markets. Since the turn of the century, the number of teams that really seemed to not to care about their minor league system (or were at least appeared to be going through the motions) dwindled. The effect this has had on the industry has been profound, altering the nature of organizational budgets, the shape and tenor of the trade deadline, and the nature of the season itself. So-called service time "gaming", the practice of delaying a player's time on the Major League roster for solely financial reasons has gone from the purview of a few oddball teams to entirely mainstream practice, so common that we not only expect it, we often demand it.
I also believe, and this is not something that is often written about, that youth sports is much more advanced than it was twenty years ago. Travel teams, much maligned in basketball circuits for sometimes unclear reasons, have made players better and at younger ages. But, along with video, they have also made scouting better. Perhaps, over the next decade, we'll see the failure rate for early round draft picks drop. I'd buy that possibility. On his podcast Rany talked about how, although Bubba Starling played against very weak competition in Kansas, he also played a large number of showcase games that gave scouts more valuable information. The odds of a first round pick showing up at Single A and being unable to play are lower than ever before. What we do know is that the equation within the game is already changed. Each year teams on the verge of trading veteran players dream of the entirely amazing prospects they will acquire for their stars and each year they are increasingly disappointed. You got that for Zack Greinke? You got him for Roy Halladay? That's all? When even the Yankees won't play the game, turning down offers for Jesus Montero for years now, you know the dynamic has truly altered.
The in-industry development of prospect prizing has furthered fan interest in these guys, which is perfectly understandable. Matt Wieters is certainly probably maybe going to be a hugely important part of your roster in 3 4 5 6 7 years, so it makes sense that you'd want to know how he's doing on a Tuesday night against Sioux City. Hey, we're all here, online, for a reason. Make no mistake, I have no problem with prospect hype. I blog myself and I spent years writing a dissertation on 18th century poetry. I like wasting time and I like research and knowledge for their own sake. (Though both, combined, have probably ruined my life -- no hyperbole -- and set me up for an absolutely hellish future.)
Prospect love is attractive to fans because it is a glimpse at the future and an opportunity to dream. It's also a way to deepen our experience as fans, which, insomuch as we care at all, we might as well care in a broader way. I remember, four or five years ago, going to a college football game with a friend. It was the first season in which players I'd followed as recruits were contributing on the field. I was excited and must have been saying random factoids in the stands about sophomore backups. My friend finally asked me, "how do you know this stuff?" "Oh, online," I said. That's where we're at now, if you want to go there, at least.
Prospects can also be attractive to teams. 95% of this attraction is justified. Until baseball gets a new financial structure, you absolutely want, more than anything else, to have two All-Star level players making the league minimum or close to it on your roster. You want cheap players available as backups and solid contributors as well. And of course, you want Hall of Famers in their prime, and really, the only way you can get those guys is to luck into developing one. Even large market teams often can't sign a Hall of Famer at his peak as a free agent, because usually they're close to decline when, if ever, they get to that point. But about that other 5%? Increasingly minor league prospects can be used to justify a regime's existence to the owner, the media, and the fans. A strong farm system can be sold as an achievement even though, really, inherently, it isn't one. That isn't a shot at Dayton Moore by the way. Not yet, at least. It's just... the minor leagues aren't the point. Prospects, even the greatest prospects, are the miser's stacks of gold: items only valuable in exchange.
It's beyond the scope of this post (but maybe not one in the future) to go through the last ten or so trades involving major prospects. But consider the Greinke trade. When you strip away some of the effluvia, essentially the Brewers acquired two years of Greinke for their rights to six years of Jake Odorizzi. No one, not even Odorizzi's biggest fans, think that he will ever be as good as Zack Greinke. Yet this was a well-regarded trade. Again, there are all kinds of details and specifics and conjectures, and most importantly, there is the time issue. But again, Odorizzi, even if he works out, beats the odds, avoids injuries and all the rest, almost certainly will never be as good as Zack Greinke will be from 2009-2012.
This post isn't really about Myers the individual prospect. There are pros and cons to trading Myers the individual. Of course, it's also mostly pointless to talk about one half of a trade. But consider Myers in more abstract terms. Unlike Odorizzi, Myers has, for now, superstar upside. A Myers trade could burn the Royals in a way that trading Odorizzi cannot, which is important. Potentially however, Myers could also bring greater rewards.
Don't worry, I'm getting to Matt Garza. In November 2007 the Rays traded Delmon Young to the Twins for Garza. (There were other spare parts involved, notably Jason Bartlett, but that was the gist of the trade.) Both players had similar amounts of Major League experience, and Young was coming off of a well-regarded 2007. While Garza had reached #20 in BA's ubiquitous rankings, Young was the mid-1980s Michael Jackson of mid-2000s BA. He was a top 3 prospect between 2004-07 and mostly for that reason is still regarded as a good player today.
We know how that trade worked out. The Rays traded some upside for certainty and walked away big winners. They also shaped raw baseball assets, as it were, into a better Major League roster. Somehow, they reached the 2008 World Series. Despite so much praise for what the Rays have done around baseball, how many GMs could pull the trigger on that trade today?
So, if the Royals are looking at trading Wil Myers, I'm not going to freak out. I'm going to be nervous, but I'm also going to be excited. Of course, the details matter. I don't think the Royals can contend in 2012, so I don't want a win now trade. On balance, however, I think the idea of Wil Myers is much more attractive than the reality of Wil Myers. I think there's a good trade out there, waiting to be made.
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Nice article Will
I’m not opposed to a Myers trade, but yeah, Moore has to nail it. What I fear is he’ll make an underwhelming trade and then use Francoeur and Cabrera as justification.
“You guys didn’t like those signings and look how they turned out. Trust me.”
If He Trades
Myers for mediocre pitching, he’ll probably trade Cabrera or Cain for more of the same, only worse. If he trades Cain, Cabrera probably gets extended. You heard it here first
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 5, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
He Easily Could
Exercise the club option for 2012 then look for a CF elsewhere. I’m just afraid he would give him another 2 years or worse.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 5, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yea, I don't want myers gone as part of a win-now trade or anything
But if he can be part of a mega deal… Go for it.
and there is a class of fan who will be upset if he is traded for the #10 player in the American League this winter
- Player in the Majors (by fWAR): Joey Votto.
- AL Player: Evan Longoria.
- AL Outfielder: Nick Swisher.
I’m warming up my lips as we speak. Bring it on, Cashman! Myers/Soria for Swisher/Montero. Fuck YEAH.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
Why would you trade for Swisher?
He has one year left on his deal, and our outfield is crowded already. Montero maybe, but we need pitchers dude, that’s a bad trade all around, check your facts bro.
You mean "smart fans."
I mean duh.
1. Butler his all those home runs versus Boston
2. Moose, Duh.
3. Pretty sure RF is stacked (although this another reason to trade Myers)
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 5, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I really went a little distance to make a Swisher man-love joke.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
great article
I need to read it again tomorrow before posting a coherent responsse
I'd be ok if Myers was traded.
But it would have to be for somewhat of a sure thing. I would not, however, trade Montgomery. He has a chance to make the team in spring training and immediately impact the rotation which is what Moore’s trying to do anyway. If he doesn’t make it in ST he’ll show up later in the year.
some really great writing here
at least two times that i said to myself, “wow, great line.”
right off the bat:
Naturally, the potential first ever Jair-Wil trade in history is itself noteworthy
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 5, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Great post, Will
1) great ‘change of expectation’ series on Weiters
2) liked the observation on the explosion of all kinds information
3) it’s a true pleasure to read the way you percieve things, organize your thoughts, and write them down in a fresh, interesting way.
4) I think there’s a number of people on this very site who love wasting time (chatting on RR is nice, but it ain’t exactly volunteering at the food pantry or ‘closing that big deal’, either), and like research and knowing things to know them, so at least you are among fellow sinners.
I’m actually ok with trading Myers, but it better be for a player you covet (Beachy), not just some guy you can get (Jurrens). I’m a believer in the adage that says you evalute a trade more to the side of ‘who did you recieve?’ rather than ‘who did we give up’; I think it leads to less recriminations from either angle. Mostly, I think I just don’t want Jurrens.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
by setupunchtag on Nov 5, 2011 10:25 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Superb, Will
I basically agree with everything you said, and I think the Royals would be wise to take advantage of the pendulum’s swing. It’s a great thing that this over-valuing of prospects has occurred at the same time that the Royals have produced such a talented minor leagues system.
With regards to Wil Myers however, I think there are very few packages that would be appropriate and more importantly I don’t trust the organization to discern what those packages are. Admittedly this is in part due to my knee jerk response to trade rumors that have recently surfaced and which Moore in all likelihood finds just as absurd as most of us do. Anyway my point is that (and you clearly understand this) all top prospects are not created equal, and that Wil Myers is a unique combination of (relative) low risk and high reward that is unlike any other prospect in the system, including Hosmer and Moustakas, and so he’d be the last of the three that I’d want to trade.
I’m no prospect guru, but I’d be reluctant to trade a top hitting prospect (particularly one with Myers’s tools—OBP animal, power potential, good athleticism) for a top pitching prospect. Mostly because Tinstaap and such. Would rather trade for the Beachy/Minor-type who has a track record but with fewer guaranteed years.
Based on where the Royals are today, I’d rather trade away higher risk, higher reward hitting prospects like Cuthbert, Bubba (I know we can’t yet…), Eibner or any of the young LA guys. And yes I realize that their risk makes them less valuable as trading chips, but I’d rather trade two/three of the high upside guys than Myers. The main reason for my preference is Myers’s bb rate. He doesn’t make outs. Guys who get on base and have the imprimatur of the scouting community seem to be really good bets to be effective major leaguers. He has a built in margin for error that Delmon Young did not have.
by billexgordler on Nov 5, 2011 10:52 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 4 recs
You trust the org to develop players of Myers caliber
but you dont trust them to use them as currency?
I have a hard time believing they are two completely different skillsets. The evaluation process are similar and certainly overlap. Moore did just fine with the Grienke trade (and unlike Will, I think we got way more than just Odorizer), and though he struggled in early trades, they werent all bad, and he will do just fine in one involving Myers.
I trust Dayton to sign and develop good amateur players
So far he hasn’t done much to make me think he’s good at judging MLB talent. The jury’s still out on the Greinke trade (and will be for a couple more years), and Frenchy and Melky turned out to be good signings. So did Chen. Other than that, his record at trading/signing MLB players is pretty poor.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
One decent pickup
doesn’t make up for Jacobs and Yuni and Guillén and Kendall and all the other superstars who have been through here in the last few years.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
one decent pickup?....really?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 8:33 AM EST up reply actions
I think he was referring to dooblay's mention of one pickup
Juancho said Moore’s record of acquiring major leaguers is pretty poor. Dooblay countered with one acquisition, Paulino. And I think Juancho’s response was that single transaction doesn’t make up for the negatives on his record. I think everyone agrees that Moore has made multiple positive and negative moves with regard to major league players. I think probably everyone also agrees that to date the negatives have significantly outweighed the positives.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 12:18 PM EST up reply actions
There is something prophetic about reading this article... And a little scary
Whilst listening to Njósnavélin (the Nothing song) by Sigur Rós
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
Oh and...
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Nov 5, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I know you've posted the above before...
But I love it everytime I see it. Perfect loop.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
by setupunchtag on Nov 5, 2011 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I love the conviction
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Nov 5, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
…and it can work when you really mean the applause…or when you’re someone blind to all information contrary to what your heart wants to believe is so, and you’re the lone voice of support for that belief. Great scene.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
by setupunchtag on Nov 5, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Why? Why? Why?
Are you off to Iceland? A chess tournement we don’t know about? Did you lose a bet? Iceland? Some perverse desire to go to places you have never been? Iceland? In November?
talk to me, Johnny...
Friend of mine from law school went to Iceland 2-3 times
Like you said, cheap flights to Reykjavik from Dulles, and he said that the place was crawling with hot, blonde chicks that wanted nothing more than an American guy with some money to whisk them off the island.
I guess the latter won’t really apply to you (one of those pesky snags of marriage), but I’m sure you’ll have a good time anyway.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 5, 2011 5:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Such a defeatist
Dare to dream, Will. Dare to dream.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 5, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions
All the girls on this board talk about what a handsome guy you are.
If we had girls here, that is.
I think these things are suppose to happen much less often once a fella is married...
So probably you are the statistical norm.
talk to me, Johnny...
I went in November. Loved it.
Feels otherworldly. But seriously, rent a car.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 5, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Spiders are scary
driving in Iceland in the winter ain’t no thing
Do these effectively hide my thunder?
Great country
Rent a car and get up early—not much light this time of year.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 5, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
My German Cousins
Used to send us postcards from there occasionally. It was always in the winter.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 5, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions
Iceland, Like Southcentral
Alaska, is fairly temperate for its latitude due to ocean currents.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 5, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The 10 day forecast is all rain and high's in the 40's
for Reykjavik, Iceland. I think Will should be headed for sunnier climates where he can toe the sand , adult beverage in hand, stare at the girls in their swimsuits from behind his sunglasses.
talk to me, Johnny...
Go to the Canary Islands
They’re pretty cheap, really beautiful, and they’re part of Spain, not a colony, The weather’s great year-round. The economic, health, and safety standards are European Union level. You might want to stay away from the island of El Hierro, though, since it’s leaking lava undersea and just might blow. They have advised the people in the nearest towns to leave. All the islands are volcanic, but none of them has erupted seriously in the last 500 years, since they were settled by Spaniards.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
There's tons of geothermal activity in Iceland.
It’s like God decided there should just be this one island covered with naturally occurring hot tubs, right? I imagine that there’s plenty of opportunity to observe young women in their swimwear, if that’s your goal…
mmmmm.... geothermal activity...
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 6, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions
I didn't watch one baseball game this year
Still stop by RR almost daily, because of articles like this.
“Though both, combined, have probably ruined my life — no hyperbole — and set me up for an absolutely hellish future.”
Big-time LOL at that, although I know you aren’t really trying to be funny. using the word “hellish” to describe your own future really tickled me though. I remember you once saying you hadn’t made one new friend in 10 years, and I giggled at that as well.
I want us to trade Myers, but am terrified of what Moore will do and who he thinks is good. Which is kind of messed up, really. You shouldn’t be scared when your owner is considering trading a prospect.
I just hope whoever we acquire is a “runs created” upgrade, am i right?
C. Montgomery Hunt: One of the greatest heroes in American history.
for the record...
There local legendary sandwich shop in town has a sandwich called the Big Matt, and I have a couple friends that will only get that when they go.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Nov 5, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess that sandwich contains bacon
C. Montgomery Hunt: One of the greatest heroes in American history.
I don't think so...
I’ve never had it myself.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Nov 5, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Matt
Where you been, kid?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 11:48 AM EST up reply actions
Great job Will
For this site, very wordy, like Rany. But very clear, well-grounded thoughts, just like Rany.
For some reason, I find myself flinching when Myers is mentioned as trade bait. I’ve had a gut feeling on him more than probably anybody we have, or have recently had. Like young starting pitchers with electric stuff and great control, a position player with a high OBP and great bat control, with power potential, is very rare. Not Just everybody is talked about like that, and has at least some numbers to back it up.
No doubt, though, that Myers’ value is pretty high right now. He’s at the threshold, if you will, Will. Wil will make you look real good or real bad in the next 2-3 years. ( I used “Will” four consecutive times there, Just to show the malleability of our language. It’s a wonder ANYBODY can learn it.) Gut feeling says hang onto him. Hosmer is the same type if hitter, we just know more about him. He could be Hosmer’s “table setter.” Oddly, right now that role falls to Gordon, which would ideally slide down a spot in the order. Then he and Myers can set it up for Hosmer and Butler, who can then rep out some 120 RBI seasons. Now THAT sounds like fun. That could re-define fun. They could get us back on national TV. They could have neat nicknames and everything. They might get their own cartoon.
Jair Juerjens? Huh?
by Rufus R. Jones on Nov 5, 2011 12:13 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
I love that there are 4 wills in a row at one point in this comment
What does a man have to do around here to get a championship?
Hit me up on twitter: @RockChalkChief
Depends what we get back
I’d guess that the highest bidder won’t think 2011 took much shine off of his future.
slightly...but not too much....
nobody seems to think this season hurt his stock too much
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 5, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I know that scouts know he is still a great
Prospect. But he was the #10 overall prospect a year ago and I am guessing he will be around #20 this winter. He is the best in the Royals’ system, but Hos and Moose were as close to household names as Royals prospects could likely be, and I don’t think Myers would draw the same level of interest right now.
I would like to get an insider’s perspective on this selling high or low issue, how much it matters. Others here have said Odorizzi may be the guy whose value will never be higher, and if he moves up from the 60s to the 40s that may be true as a guy projected to be a #2 SP.
by thelaundry on Nov 5, 2011 2:29 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think yesterday Keith law said he had ade big improvements...
Yea he’s still got the scout love I think
I think trading Odorizzi at this point might make more sense
Of course, the return compared to Myers wouldn’t be as high, but if you’re going to trade one of your top 3-5 prospects, why not make it a pitcher-for-pitcher deal? Especially since I just can’t see Odorizzi’s value getting much higher than it is right now. Moore just wants to accelerate the contention timeline by getting a young(er) pitcher who can perform at the MLB level NOW rather than waiting a year or three. Giving up a few years of control by trading Odorizzi for a current MLB SP is just part of the price that has to be paid.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 5, 2011 5:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Not so sure about that,
He pitched well at Wilmington, but EVERYBODY pitches well there. Check out Monty’s stats there…Jake did NOT pitch particularly well at AA at all. Not sure how you guys just assume scouts see his value this high.
Well, that's kind of the point
If he peaked at Wilmington, and didn’t look so hot at AA, then right now may be his peak value. If he struggles at NW Arkansas again next season, his trade value will drop significantly.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 5, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions
doesnt sound like you think much of him
I think he will only get better in the minore, so therefore I believe trading him now would actually be selling low. Scouts are smarter than any of us “blog commenters”. They know a lot more about the current/projectable value of Jake Odorizzi than anybody on this site. It ALWAYS makes me chuckle when people on sites like this who read blog articles and watch youtube videos think they know more than the experts. They dont , and I dont but I guess its fun to pretend otherwise.
It's only selling low if you sell low
(fighting truism with truism) What I mean is if they hold out for a deal that gets them what they believe Myers is worth, then it doesn’t matter if Myers is at a perceived “low point”.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 5, 2011 9:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Maaaaaybe
3B seems like a real wasteland in MLB right now tho. On one hand, that means it might be hard to replace him. On the other, there’s a lot of teams that would give an arm and a leg to have a young 3B that they could call the future of the franchise (until reality sets in).
Maybe the Angels will take O'Sullivan, Smith AND Vin Mazzaro for Alberto Callaspo
I think he’s pretty good.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 5, 2011 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I can remember all the way back...
when a good Callaspo would only cost you a barely used O’Sullivan and a brand new Will Smith…and today you gotta throw in a Mazzaro, as well. I guess college and third basemen will always out-pace inflation.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
Within that vein,
would you trade Moose for Jurrjens? Personally, I would really consider it. Moose (aside from Giavotella, depending on how you feel about him) is probably the furthest from a sure thing (and I know none of them are sure things) that we have, as far as young players go. He had a good September (Kyle Davies has several) though, so if you can believe that he’s finally found it (what with him starting slow at every level and all), then maybe as kcdc1 says, you want to hold onto a young 3b that can hit.
Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.-Bertrand Russell
by Dr. van Strijcker on Nov 5, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Also,
I love parentheses.
Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.-Bertrand Russell
by Dr. van Strijcker on Nov 5, 2011 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I kind of agree, because I was pretty down on moose, and then he started smacking the crap out of the ball (I think).
But if he does end up sucking next year, we wouldn’t get much for him in a trade, would we? THAT would be “selling low.”
"On the last day of your life, don't forget to die."
- David Berman
Nah.
Moose is gonna be pretty good I think. I really like how he made adjustments late in the year. And I think his power is for real.
by billexgordler on Nov 5, 2011 11:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Moose's power is absolute
And corrupts, absolutely
by Freneau on Nov 5, 2011 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I know.
That’s what I’ve been saying. Sheesh.
by billexgordler on Nov 6, 2011 12:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mike is going to start Acton up this year.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
Per usual, outstanding post.
Once football season hits my consumption of baseball-related material precipitously declines. But I always make sure to check RR and articles like this (plus the outstanding community of intelligent discussion) is why. Found myself nodding along at nearly every point.
Brilliant work Will
’ Make no mistake, I have no problem with prospect hype. I blog myself and I spent years writing a dissertation on 18th century poetry. I like wasting time and I like research and knowledge for their own sake.’
Just dynamite writing. Love the honesty. Once again, you are my hero. No poster on the wall yet. Still working that.
talk to me, Johnny...
pretty sure I saw a trade like that at Amnesia in Amsterdam last year
i have no problem trading Myers if the deal makes sense. Beachy or Minor from the Braves would be fine. another trade that would seem to make sense for both sides would be Myers for Pineda.
Myers for Beachy or Minor does NOT makes sense. Would you trade Ryan Braun for Beachy or Minor? Myers has Braun potential.
you realize myers has a floor potential too, right?
hard to admit that when he’s already ryan braun apparently
was the braun comparison written somewhere recently?
because Braun was one of the top 3 hitters last year. it seems hard to say a player has that kind of potential as if there’s much likelihood of such an outcome when he isn’t even one of the top three hitting prospects in the minors.
by 9il on Nov 6, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions
How about Jay Bruce? I always thought that was a better comp for Myers (and certainly more fair than Braun).
As far as a floor, well how low do you want to go? Is Delmon Young (minus his one very good year) a good comp?
Great post
I agree that prospects are overvalued and are probably “the currency of Baseball” right now.
I am somewhat equally afraid that DMGM will buy into that hype and hoard all of his prospects until their value goes away.
I am equally afraid that if and when he does decide to use them as bargaining chips, he will undersell them (like for Jurrjens). At times it seems that he starts out with a target, (that either he wants to acquire or wants to get rid of) and is so focused on that target that he is manipulated by other teams into accepting too little or offering too much.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
Will's point on a farm system in and of itself not really being an accomplishment highlights
Moore’s next (and perhaps biggest) challenge. Once you’ve got all these great prospects, you and your scouting staff have to make some hard decisions and start making the right calls on the guys that will be busts vs. guys that are legit MLB players/stars. I think Moore’s tenure will ultimately be judged by the decisions he’s going to make in the next 1-3 years. If he guesses wrong on guys like Myers or Odorizzi (one way or the other), his legacy will be guessing the wrong way on trades…regardless of how great his system may be.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 5, 2011 5:51 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
exactly what percentage of them
turn out to be that?
A powerball ticket is not a waste of money if it wins the jackpot.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
Rec'd for the use of "effluvia" alone
That’s throwing down the blogging gauntlet right there.
You may have spent a ton of time and money on a pursuit (your dissertation) that may not lead to fame, fortune, and riches (or just a good-paying steady job), but your writing is a great and valuable skill, Will. I have to think it will serve you well eventually…even if it’s not paying off right now.
I love this site because Will writes articles like this
which I really enjoy but can’t always pinpoint why. And then I read the comments and several people have succeeded in pinpointing what it is that makes the writing so great, which only makes me enjoy it more.
I know there are a dozen sites for everything on the internet, but I’m not sure that there’s any other place I’ve been where I learn about what makes great baseball team and what makes great writing in the same place.
Nice, Will.
I particularly like the line where you said that the idea of Wil Meyers is more intriguing than the reality of him.
I agree—I’ve thought for a long time that, partially since the Royals have been so bad, fans automatically place greater value on prospects than those at the big league level. We all think that our roster will be awesome due to these prospects—but someone’s gonna fail. Think Hosmer, Moose, AND Myers will fulfill their full potentials? Doubtful.
Hard to Figure This One Out
Since Myers may be a superstar, I guess that I would not trade him — too much upside. But Will’s logic is tempting.
by Kansas City Oracle on Nov 6, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions
I think for me, if you can get a near star in return, you think about it
like the Matt Garza trade
Garza is not a superstar, but I would say, was a solid “star” level pitcher, whatever that means
However, if the Royals are good enought to win in 2012
I would trade up for Beachy or someone like him.
by Kansas City Oracle on Nov 6, 2011 12:40 AM EDT reply actions
No
I would not trade Wil Myers for Jair Jurrjens, yes there are players I would trade him for
you'd rather have one year of cole hamels than 6 of minor or beachy?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 6, 2011 12:16 PM EST up reply actions
Especially when that one year is 2012 which is probably not a WS contending year.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Nov 6, 2011 9:12 PM EST up reply actions





















