Breaking: Kansas City Royals Trade Melky Cabrera to San Francisco, Get Jonathan Sanchez and Ryan Verdugo
by Freneau on Nov 7, 2011 1:26 PM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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Never a quiet Monday in Royals Land. I was out running errands and had already decided I wasn't going to write about the depressing but inevitable INSERT CORP NAME HERE news. (I'm sure the combination of our ownership group + a "financial services company" + the way MLB handles things usually will = everything is totally above board, to the benefit of fans and taxpayers, and will help the team on the field. Definitely. Definitely. Why would you doubt this at all? I know I don't. Definitely.)
The Royals have sent Melky Cabrera to San Francisco. In exchange for a year of Cabrera, the Royals have acquired starting pitcher Jonathan Sanchez and minor league arm Ryan Verdugo.
With Cabrera gone, we can, presumably assume that Lorenzo Cain now moves into the starting center field spot.
Here's McCovey Chronicles on the move:
This is a Sabean move, through and through. From Marvin Benard down past Dave Roberts, he loves trying center fielders who can't really play center field. Maybe they can! Maybe everyone's wrong about them!
Sounds familiar.
Jonathan Sanchez is a famous name here, He's thrown a no-hitter in the past, and has posted superficially good numbers in a great pitchers' park. He simultaneously still seems young, but has been around forever, like a pitching version of Daphnis & Chloe. Surprisingly, like Cabrera, Sanchez will be a free agent after the 2012 season.
| Year | Age | Tm | Lg | GS | IP | HR | BB | ||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2007 | 24 | SFG | NL | 5.88 | 4 | 52.0 | 8 | 28 | 77 | 1.635 | 9.9 | 1.4 | 4.8 | 10.7 | 2.21 |
| 2008 | 25 | SFG | NL | 5.01 | 29 | 158.0 | 14 | 75 | 88 | 1.449 | 8.8 | 0.8 | 4.3 | 8.9 | 2.09 |
| 2009 | 26 | SFG | NL | 4.24 | 29 | 163.1 | 19 | 88 | 101 | 1.365 | 7.4 | 1.0 | 4.8 | 9.8 | 2.01 |
| 2010 | 27 | SFG | NL | 3.07 | 33 | 193.1 | 21 | 96 | 127 | 1.231 | 6.6 | 1.0 | 4.5 | 9.5 | 2.14 |
| 2011 | 28 | SFG | NL | 4.26 | 19 | 101.1 | 9 | 66 | 84 | 1.441 | 7.1 | 0.8 | 5.9 | 9.1 | 1.55 |
| 6 Seasons | 4.26 | 118 | 708.0 | 73 | 376 | 97 | 1.388 | 7.7 | 0.9 | 4.8 | 9.4 | 1.96 | |||
Yes, in 2011 Sanchez walked 5.9 batters per nine innings. Walks have always been his problem, and at age 28 that problem got even worse. Troubling.
Ryan Verdugo is a computer generated throw-in arm. Taken in the 9th round of the 2008 draft, Verdugo had primarily been a reliever in the minor leagues, in 2011 however, the Giants made him a starter. Minor league stats here.
Obligatory insta-verdict: This deal certainly takes the shape of many of the rumors and proposed swaps proffered by fans this autumn as a seemingly redundant position player was sent out for a pitcher. Sanchez is roughly an average to slightly above average pitcher. He's certainly a rotation upgrade. (2010 - 4.00 FIP, 3.94 xFIP, 2011 - 4.30 FIP, 4.36 xFIP) However, because of his contract status and middling nature, he isn't a difference maker in 2012 or a long term solution in the rotation. I'm not really sad to see Melky go, as I would not have bet that he was going to replicate his 2011 season. Essentially, we have a swap of 2-3 win players (if you think Sanchez can bounce back, a big assumption) with Verdugo thrown in. As has repeatedly been the case, it appears from the outside that Moore's timing on this trade is off, but obviously he felt this was the best deal he was going to make and that the pitching market was only going to get worse.
Did the Royals really just not get enough for Melky Freaking Cabrera? Talk me down, boys.
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I'm outraged!
Or thrilled. I really don’t know.
by LaFLamme on Nov 7, 2011 1:30 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
Why does this bother you so much?
Kind of a non-issue. What, you wanted another 3 starts for Mitch Maier?
200 hits means nothing to me at all either, but who knows, maybe Sabean paid attention?
its just Little League
I thought caring about individual stats was wrong? I can never keep this straight anymore.
Again, agree...
But in the scheme of things we need to worry about, this is at the bottom of the list.
Will, you need to let this go
Its done all over baseball all the time. Its a personal achievement for a player and there is nothing wrong with that. Ichiro, Boggs, Gwynn all would have been just a “selfish” to get there as Milky if they were close at the end of the season. Personal stats are VERY important to players and that isnt going to change. Ever.
No, but Melky's replacement is ready to go
And by all accounts will be just as good a player
Twitter: awolfson0
by awolfson on Nov 7, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Agreed on both counts
I think it would be great if the Royals could manage to get 6 years of cost-controlled, league-average CF out of Cain.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
There is no guarantee any of us will EXIST next year.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
There is for me
I have life insurance.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
by cmkeller on Nov 7, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can't keep track
Cain has gone from awesome to only okay to awesome so many times since he became a Royal that I can’t keep track.
To be fair, I’m probably really distracted by the looming blemish that the possibility of of selling naming rights to Kauffman stadium will leave on our Our National Innocence.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:13 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know if you know this, but he's
almost as good as Jarrod Dyson
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Will...
I may be wrong but weren’t you always saying we shouldn’t have gotten Melky and you wanted Cain up here for more speed b/c Melky’s defense sucks? Now that we are gonna see him your upset because you want Melky?
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I am glad Melky is gone...
one of my least favorite Royals of the last decade. I hated his mannerisms and the random stuff he always did.
I don’t hate this trade. I like the structure of it, I like the concept, I just think JS is a pretty iffy return.
As I said below, I’d rather have two Verdugos than JS, because JS doesn’t help longterm.
oddly
Melky’s mannerisims were my favorite thing about him
The Dominican Tony Plush.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Can't say that yet...
JS could be Type A or B free agent next year netting us a draft pick and therefore helping us for longer than you expected. This all coming from a Melky signing of 1.25 Mil for one year.
Or, we sign him to a deal now taking a chance and locking him up for 3 or 4 years for $5 Mil a year hoping he figures control out and keeps the K’s and BA against the same
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
he's been a number 3 starter
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
possibility that sanchez sucks?
His last full year, he had a WAR of 2.4 and an xfip of 3.94. That is a far cry from sucking. The two years before he posted a WAR of 2.8 and 1.9. Cmon, Will… Its Melky Cabrera. If there is a possibility that Sanchez sucks, there is JUST as big a possibility that Cabrera does too.
you can be more comfortable about throwing a strike and it not being taken out of the park
i’m guessing. i have no idea how much pitchers parks suppress walks.
by 9il on Nov 7, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
HELLO
We have a pitchers park too… at least compared to league average size…
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Kauffman is actually a neutral-to-hitters park
It suppresses home runs, increases hits on balls in play
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
not with cain in CF now haha
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:25 PM EST up reply actions
We have a park that supresses HR's
That’s a very different thing to a “pitcher’s park”.
Edgar knows best.
on a related note...
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/weather_and_park_factors/
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Is it actually a significant effect?
Can you enlighten me? I understand that maybe pitchers will pitcher more carefully to batters in a hitters park, thereby increasing walks, but that’s an indirect effect that seems like it would be very small.
Twitter: awolfson0
read the above link for one reason
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
And his other three years
his rate was between 4.27 and 4.85. Not good by any means, but his strikeout numbers can overcome that. In 3.5 years he has accumulated 7.7 WAR, and his strikeout numbers suggest higher potential. He does not suck by any means. We just traded Melky Cabrera, a HUGE regression candidate, for a pretty good #3 who looks like a big bounce back guy. I just don’t see how you came up with this reaction
by LimaTime10 on Nov 7, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i don't love sanchez, but i also don't like o'sullivan
and i’m a cain fan
This is great.
I know Sanchez has walk-rate issues, but he can, as Dorn once implored, “Strike this motherfucker out.”
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:32 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
And more importantly,
this means that Melky was flipped for something usable now while opening up a spot for Cain.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:34 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
ageed with both sentiments
Not exactly a pure win, but at least an even trade with little up- or down-side.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
I think the walk rate should work itself
once he gets to team known for helping pitchers with control issues and he doesn’t have to pitch to pitchers anymore.
Oh wait.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions
You're forgetting the McClure Effect
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
McClure is gone...
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:19 PM EST up reply actions
I know
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah but can her run like Hayes and hit like Mays?
I didn’t think so
"Chiefs will...crush our enemies, see them drivin before us and hear the lamentation of the women."
I'm a big fan of this
A few reasons:
- Sanchez is similar to Paulino but with a bit more empirical success. He throws strikes but has been hurt by the walk. He’s definitely got the stuff to be very successful and is worth a risk – should make a little over $5 million in 2012 before becoming an FA.
- Selling high on Melky. About time KC did something like this.
- Cain should start in CF. Huge boost to defense and we’ll see what he can do with the bat in more than limited time.
- Verdugo not a bad throw in with 11.1 K/9 and 4.5 BB/9 in minor league career. Kind of a mini Sanchez. He’s 24 and looks to be headed to AAA.
- With Cain off the table (I assume) it should mean no Jair!
Overall just seems like the sort of smart gamble the Royals haven’t done in the past. Selling high for a high upside player who has under performed.
by jsolo on Nov 7, 2011 1:34 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
That's my take
Selling high for a high upside player who has under performed.
Sold high on Melky, bought low on Sanchez. Could they have gotten more? That’s up for debate.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
completely agree.
I love turning my phone on as a flight lands to get news like this.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Nov 7, 2011 2:38 PM EST via iPhone app up reply actions
Why not promote the other thread?
Good discussion already there. Anyway, this is a great trade, especially if Sanchez returns to form. Could turn out to be Dayton’s best.
Cabrera is a side piece, traded for a potential #3-type SP.
Twitter: awolfson0
by awolfson on Nov 7, 2011 1:36 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I wondered the same...
I would have been / would be happy to add more to the post if that’s what was needed to bring it to the front page.
Royal love from the Rockies.
by AnnoyedGrunt on Nov 7, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yep he broke the news and we already started the convo there
just promote that instead of start your own
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions
Good job on breaking the news AnnoyedGrunt
Give some credit to him…
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions
Thanks, SOBD
Royal love from the Rockies.
ya, nice working breaking the news
but big stories like this always get a main page post. In other words, you are the royals, and Will is the yankees.
by Loose Seal on Nov 7, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
dont say that
b/c I hate the yankees and say F them. so that would mean I hate Will and F him lol
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
Feel free to copy and repost any relevant comments
In a situation like this, it’s just better for the site overall if I eventually put up a post about it. If it was a more minor move, just promoting the fanshot is ok.
I don't agree
You just wanted the glory let’s be honest. You can put his post because HE broke the news. Then you can put your thoughts.
OR you can put a post and say “First reported by AnnoyedGrunt in the fan shots” then put all your stuff. Still giving credit where credit is due without being selfish
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
No...
The argument was promoting the fanshot to the front page so it is the exact same thing. Just posted from the guy who actually broke the news. Or like i said Will could have said the exact same thing he did above but hat tipped the guy who actually put it on here first.
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
he didn't break anything!
he read it on a website most likely and posted it here
by BeauJackson on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Its not the same thing
Do a random search in the search box. Stories come up first, you have to click for fanshots.
Edgar knows best.
I hereby award AnnoyedGrunt 10,000,000 Royals Review points, and a free subscription for life!
Happy now?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
"There’s such a thing as Royals Review points?"
are they more valuable than “Schrute Bucks”?
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Nov 7, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...i had a fanshot ready to go as well and then refreshed b/c i assumed i couldnt have been first....
this is the dumbest ‘controversy’ on this site…ever…and thats saying alot…will made a post with analysis about a pretty major royals news…c’mon guys
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
sorry for sticking up for the guy who put it on here first. my apologies
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
lol thanks notahippie
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions
This isn’t Arrowhead Pride.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
ya start that debate now
the most trafficed blog of any sport on SB nation
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:50 PM EST up reply actions
watch your language youngster
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
blog with the most traffic and people visiting...
i make up words every once in awhile
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
alot of people on AP are idiots
I feel like it is the most trafficked blog, but other blogs have a hell of a lot better content
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
There’s a lot of really good content on AP, but 90+% of it is total garbage.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Oh the irony of saying alot of people on AP are idiots...
because you know… alot isn’t a word.
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Nov 7, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
I ain't a hipster
But I can make your hips stir
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
and we have Jack Marsh
and you don’t
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
yes!!!!...im always down for a good ole arrowhead pride bashing
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Facebook is also the most "trafficed" website in the world
Congratulations.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
Listen – no one breaks stories on SB Nation blogs. So you were the first person to link to the story where mlb trade rumors linked to the story where Dutton broke the story? Who gives a flying fuck? Does a h/t from the site moderator at the bottom of the story mean a single thing?
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
it wasnt me dude
chill out. i dont even know the guy. just said would have been nice to say thanks to him
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
No, you actually said a lot more than that
You stated that you thought Will was attempting to take all the “glory” for himself. As if there were such a thing in this situation.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
Behold the glory of being the first person to link to the site with a link to the story!
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
"Biggest Rivals for Story Breaking, 1-20"
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
no, the guy who posted a fanpost here broke the story apparently
tried to keep things hush hush but word spread
AnnoyedGrunt broke it by hiding out under Moore's desk for 96 straight hours with no bathroom breaks
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
oh, there were bathroom breaks
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 4:43 PM EST up reply actions
Dayton is such a dynamo he didn't even notice
Royals’ FO member: [walks into Dayton’s office] Man, Dayton, what is that smell in here?
Moore: That’s the smell of The Process in furious motion…combined with a lingering tinge of SUCCESS!
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
(and asparagus)
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 7:50 PM EST up reply actions
uh
1) It’s Will’s bog
2) is AnnoyedGrunt the actual journalist who broke the story? If so, then the complaint might have merit. Will is giving his own take on his own blog. See #1.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
yeah...thats the funny part...will provided analysis....
its not like he just posted that it happened….that wouldve been redundant
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions
WHO CARES ABOUT ANALYSIS!!! THE KEY IS WHO IS QUICKEST WITH THEIR MOUSE AND KEYBOARD!
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
FIRST!
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Nov 7, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
i love how asking for praise for a guy
gets so much controversy. the world we live in… everyone has to disagree with everyone about everything. disagree?
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions
uhh
“I don’t agree
You just wanted the glory let’s be honest. You can put his post because HE broke the news. Then you can put your thoughts."
Yea, you were merely calling for AG to be praised, totally.
by Freneau on Nov 7, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs
what does the rest of mine say?
post the rest of it. saying you can put your exact story from above but put “thanks to who put it on here first and started the conversation there”
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
ask him he just reposted it....
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Praise?
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 2:55 PM EST up reply actions
He's a very good boy
Who always works hard in class and doesn’t cause any trouble.
Edgar knows best.
I am thankful to Annoyed Grunt...
and if I had been out of pocket for hours and the post had hundreds of comments, I would have probably just promoted it
I promote tons of stuff to the FP here.
No doubt
If you are someone interested in getting some attention for a post and don’t know where to get started, write up a decent analysis or something funny or even just an interesting fanshot here, and you’ve got a really good chance.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
again read the comments... i didnt post it the guy that did isn't asking for this
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
i always start a huge list of follow up comments with whatever i say i guess b/c my name
haha but i am 10 times more a royals fan than chiefs fan. just liked the name
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
if it makes a difference..
I read your thread before this one :)
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Nov 7, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions
read the posts...
it wasnt my thread. i dont even know the guy
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
again... it wasnt me that posted the fanpost. thanks for all this though
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
"thanks for all this"
you picked a nonsensical fight and attacked me personally
I am well aware of who posted this glorious fanshot
i cant believe this is still going on
thanks for once again doing the work by posting the stats and some analysis so that everyone else didnt have to
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
attacked you personally?
by saying would it kill the owner of this site to give a reader/commenter a thanks or hat tip for posting it so others could find out? other readers found out here first because of your site because of that post.
I like the site. when i got a text from a friend i came here to check if it was true and went to traderumors to check as well. i appreciate all you do and me coming here to make sure it was not just a friend making stuff up proves i trust this site. I appoligize if i stepped over the line with what i said
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
you're going to drive will to kill himself if you dont stop talking about this...
and then who would be here to steal the glory?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
I've got the FanShot for Will's funeral details all queued and ready to go
nobody better preempt me
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
don't bother, Will will just steal the story
/glory hound
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 4:46 PM EST up reply actions
I will conservatively estimate that less than 1% of the people got the news from reading the site. In fact, I would say everyone got the news, then went to the site specifically so that they could read will’a analysis…
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
i was flipping b/w facebook and RR...being extremely productive when it popped up
i got a text from a friend about 12 secs later who got some sort of auto text from dutton or some shit…it was everywhere
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
or to see if others knew about it...
and it wasnt on the front page yet but it was in the fanshot. so yes that helped
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 3:18 PM EST up reply actions
Can I just make it clear...
That I did not intend this to be a huge deal? Marry me Will!
Twitter: awolfson0
MITCH!!! starts in CF next spring
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Nov 7, 2011 1:37 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
the Israeli baseball league that Duquette ran into the ground
by Freneau on Nov 7, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Will
I think I speak for many in that you don’t need to defend yourself with this ridiculousness. (word?)
by I need more Esteban on Nov 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
this is real
http://www.israelbaseballleague.com/about/iblexecutive/index.html?staff_id=2
Orioles are getting ahead of the curve and finding the israeli hidden gems.
Obviously, you are not a golfer.
oops
reply fail, was trying to reply to the crazy fanshot stuff above and somehow replied here, serves me right for trying to work and talk about the Royals all at once
by I need more Esteban on Nov 7, 2011 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'll repeat what I said in the fanshot.
Maybe I’m too negative, but I’m not thrilled by this trade. Not because of what we gave up, but because of what we got. Sanchez was only 13-9 on the World Series champions in 2010, and that was his best season. I like that he strikes guys out at a very good clip, but he walks too many guys, too. He led the majors in walks issued in 2010. And he led the majors in hits per 9 innings in 2010, too. He only has two seasons with an ERA+ of 100 or more.
I like that we went out and got a starting pitcher, and I don’t know if we could have done better, but I’m skeptical. Although this guy should be part of the rotation. If we get other guys or improve what we already have enough for Sanchez to be our third starter, we should be in good shape.
Did I not also talk about walk and hit ratios?
Or ERA+? The fact is that Sanchez is, or at least has been so far, merely an average major-league pitcher. Unfortunately, the state of the Royals’ pitching roster is such that an average pitcher markedly improves our rotation.
by AMS on Nov 7, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Sorry bud, you led off with wins
Nothing will make me stop reading faster.
Twitter: awolfson0
by awolfson on Nov 7, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
Low wins on a World Series winning team
It would be one thing if I was using low wins on a bad team as an argument against him. Or high wins on a good team against him.
WAR. His 3.6 WAR in his best year was only 1.0 above Chen this year. Chen, who spent significant time out of action.
Also, I’m not your bud, friend.
by AMS on Nov 7, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Wins are irrelevant is what he was saying.
Winning team or not, wins are not a meaningful way to evaluate a pitcher.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
So all my other points are invalid?
He strikes out a bunch of guys, but he also walks way too many and gives up a lot of hits. Weren’t walks one of the biggest complaints about our pitching staff this season?
I’m still processing the trade and what it means and how good Sanchez is. I’m used to bad deals, so pardon me if I immediately look at the negatives.
The high strikeout rate does mitigate concerns that he may look better than he actually is because of playing half his games in San Francisco, I will say.
by AMS on Nov 7, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
The point is, low wins are not a negative
They’re not anything. And that was your first point. Why would I read the rest of your posts when there are reams of analysis on this trade pouring in as we type?
Twitter: awolfson0
by awolfson on Nov 7, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yes, the walks are an issue
Wins are irrelevant though.
The bigger issue is that Melky was at least a good bet to not perform as well as he did this year, and his place on the roster was arguably redundant with Cain in the wings.
An SP was needed, and it seems like GMDM sold high on Melky and got a decent flier on Verdugo, who played his first substantive ball in the high minors this year with positive results. A possible start in AAA for Verdugo, a high-K/high-BB lefty and Sanchez in the rotation is hard not to like.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions
But it does put a legitimate ML SP in the rotation
Isn’t that what matters the most here? Three of his last four seasons have been 1.9 fWAR or more. Verdugo is a hard-throwing lefty who isn’t far from the bigs, lessening the risk a bit, and is at least a worthy throw-in.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Verdugo was rated the 25th best prospect in the Giants system coming into this system
and its not like the Giants have that deep a system.
I am curious to hear what the prospect hounds say about him...
there’s surprisingly little about him out there
Yes,
which is why I’m excited.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
Trading for Sanchez prevents other, worse trades
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 15 recs
a sign of true faith in the front office
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
I think people are overestimating Sanchez
He’s not that good.
I like the trade, but it’s hardly a blockbuster.
Edgar knows best.
He's coming off a bad year
But there’s plenty of data to suggest that it may have been just a bad year by a good pitcher. And all we gave up was Melky. It can’t lose.
Twitter: awolfson0
Not a blockbuster but it represents something very promising
Selling high on a player (Melky), upgrading defense (Cain), adding a Paulino like pitcher (Sanchez), and decent minor league gamble (Verdugo). The sum is greater than parts I think as it shows overall decent foresight by the FO.
by jsolo on Nov 7, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Who cares if it's a blockbuster?
It’s a rare shrewd trade from Dayton Moore. Today is a good day.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
In fairness, he's made a few of them
He’s just made enough bad ones as well, that I like being reminded that he can still make common sense trades.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
RamRam for Valerio de los Santos
Although at times they seem to indicate that JDLR was dealt for RamRam. Confusing.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Wasn't JDLR the PTBNL for RamRam?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:52 PM EST up reply actions
No one knows
One day Nicholas Cage will be wandering the bowels of Kauffman Stadium searching for the true transaction that occured.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
"shrewd" might be pushing it
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
We're talking Dayton "shrewd" here, though
It’s like a five-year-old who finally figures out he can trade the stuff from his lunch bag that he doesn’t want.
Twitter: awolfson0
One of the biggest reasons I like this deal...
…is that it isn’t a blockbuster.
Frankly, I fear Dayton Moore’s next blockbuster trade.
Today, it didn’t happen. Today is a good day.
It's a symbolic victory for me
- GMDM bought low, sold high.
- Moving Melky paves the way for Cain who could easily be as good as Melky and significantly cheaper
- Sanchez is a high-upside, but still relatively inexpensive starting pitcher.
- We didn’t get a former Brave
- We traded with a GM who is not likely to fleece us like Friedman
by Loose Seal on Nov 7, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions 22 recs
Rec'd
on board with each point
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Dayton flipped Melky for something we can use. Cain will be the full-time CF. Sanchez will be the best pitcher on our team, and we may be able to extend his contract. We need starting pitchers. We didn’t need a centerfielder with a -1 dWAR, as timely as some of his hits were last season.
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
I really like it that...
…we didn’t (apparently) get a former Brave.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
I think Sanchez wore a Braves hat once as a kid
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Well, so long as he didn't perform...
…the Seminoles/Braves chop.
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
didn't he trick-or-treat when he was 11 as Chipper Jones?
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
you forgot to sign off with that one.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
sorry
so did I. – omd
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
hypocrite
… ;) – TL
"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.
i had to rec as well. well put.
Okay, well maybe we should tell that to Rain Man, because he practically bankrupted a casino, and he was a ri-tard.
by Clearly Ambiguous on Nov 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST up reply actions
agreed
esp. the top three or four.
you know, had we heard that GMDM turned down this trade 95% of the people on this site would have bitched endlessly.
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
We don't like it because we love Sanchez
We like it because Sanchez fits the team a million times better than Melky would have.
by kcdc1 on Nov 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'm with you there
I like the trade.
I just don’t think Sanchez is as good as the twittersphere suddenly thinks he is.
Edgar knows best.
Title ought to say
Royals trade for jonathon sanchez and his minor league doppelganger
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
by RoyalPug on Nov 7, 2011 1:39 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Verdugo is Sanchez in profile, not performance
He’s 24 and still at AA. He will never be even a poor man’s Sanchez. Maybe he can be a homeless man’s Sanchez, though.
Twitter: awolfson0
It may end up being good, but the important thing is it can't possibly be bad
Unless Sanchez is atrocious next season.
Twitter: awolfson0
That's right
Worst case the damage is done in a year for us.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
Wow
I’m surprised. Seems like a solid move at first glance.
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by ajanzen on Nov 7, 2011 1:41 PM EST via iPhone app reply actions
Anyone know the quick and dirty
If Sanchez is close to Type A or B compensation?
Heh, heh. Dirty….sanchez.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I'd be surprised if he didn't yield compensation.
Isn’t the widespread assumption everyone is operating under that the Type A or B differentiation will go away and it will simply be comp picks in the sandwich round or am I misremembering this.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions
That was the CW for awhile
But lately it sounds like they’re just going to tinker and lessen the compensation, not do away with it entirely.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Yeah,
just not penalize the team signing the FA, right?
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions
This is a bizarro Dayton trade. Most of his trades aren’t horrible on the surface, but make zero sense in light of what it means for the resulting roster. But with this trade, one of the best parts about it is that it makes a lot of sense in terms of the rest of the roster. I think it’s next to impossible for us to lose this trade, especially considering it’s only one year of melky, and it’s pretty likely that we break even, with a decent chance that we win it handily. Add in the fact that we got the minor league pitcher too and I think break even is pretty much the worst case scenario.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
It does make good sense in the context of our roster.
We can definitely afford to give up an outfielder. And everybody in the world knew starting pitching was our need going into 2012.
by AMS on Nov 7, 2011 1:47 PM EST up reply actions
it's just so refreshing to have a trade that makes sense.
Even if it doesn’t work out, I will still think it’s a good trade. I think Sanchez was just about as much as the Royals could expect in return, and that they also got Verdugo, as well was a bonus. I actually had this trade as one of my armchair GM trades, so it’s kinda surprising when something you’d like to see happen, happens.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
I'll be at P&L tonight with TrippingOlney and DanBeebe if you need me
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2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV
Nice job Dayton!
Trades a player he got off the scrap-heap last year for two lefties with upside.
by Royalron on Nov 7, 2011 1:45 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Sanchez is signed through 2012
And will make $6 million next year according to Giants fans at BTF (Cot’s does not have this contract extension on its site)
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I can see DM offering Sanchez a kinda-stupid extension
But I’ll take an overpay on a youngish LH that can strike guys out.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
sanchez is a 29 year old pitcher who's never posted higher than a 2.8 WAR season
i’d say hold the phone on an extension until he does his thing in the AL
Better than extending Melky with Cain waiting in the wings
by kcdc1 on Nov 7, 2011 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
EXACTLY
This is a great trade partly because it shortcircuits other, far worse, trades.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions
My Giants fan friends universally hate this trade
So that should make us feel good, if nothing else. They’re used to hating everything Sabean does, though.
Twitter: awolfson0
by awolfson on Nov 7, 2011 1:49 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
This was a solid trade that makes sense for the Royals
but some of the Sanchez love I am reading (mostly on Twitter) seems a bit overblown. The walk rates are a huge issue that people seem to mention then ignore its depth. We have no reason to assume they will magically go away or get better. I would be hesitant projecting Sanchez as anything higher than a league average pitcher next season.
That being said, he has the potential to do better, but that is all. The likelihood of him reaching that potential seems low to me, but it certainly is there. The best part of the trade to me is Dayton being smart enough to move Melky and keep Cain.
by Connor Moylan on Nov 7, 2011 1:50 PM EST via mobile reply actions 2 recs
A league average pitcher?
In Kansas City? For Melky Cabrera? I’m still trying to figure out how that’s a bad thing.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Nov 7, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions
Jonathan Sanchez>Melky Cabrera>Tim Tebow
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Nov 7, 2011 1:52 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Jack Marsh wins again
Although he did said the trade would happen at the deadline
You know that Jack Marsh is actually Dayton right?
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I'll never tell!
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
2012 is the year we shine.
Best part
We still have the monetary and player resources to acquire another SP via trade.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 1:53 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
yes, but Melky was the most easily tradable player we had by a longshot
I’m sure if we make another trade it’ll be more of a give and take
by 9il on Nov 7, 2011 1:55 PM EST up reply actions
Myers for Beachy
Rotation:
Beachy
Paulino
Sanchez
Hochevar
Duffy
No aces in that list, but I bet it’d be above average.
Atlanta wont make that trade
because it doesnt help them in ‘12, It makes them worse. They would have to get a ML ready LF in return. They will just trade or sign one of the 2 available Minn OF’rs instead.
Looks like the Regression Monster is going to be visiting San Fran next year instead of KC
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 1:54 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
MUNCH, MUNCH, MUNCH
Either that or Melky hits the buffet line after arbitration.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
You mean after the 3/20 extension that Sabean offers him?
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
Seriously
DM has like ADD when it comes to the Hot Stove. Has he ever not made a trade the first week of the offseason?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 1:55 PM EST reply actions 5 recs
Not sure if ADD is the correct diagnosis...
more like premature something or other.
That information is somewhat classified.
we should all be jumping for joy...
we traded a pawn for a knight
Melky isn’t much more than a good platoon player and the Royals already have offense
Sanchez is definitely a Major League pitcher…was startable in fantasy baseball at least…that should be worth something right?
I am the one who knocks.
Melky isn't much more than a good platoon player?
Sorry, that seems wrong. Melky may have outperformed his true talent level this year, but he’s got a lot of regression to do before he’s an AVERAGE player again. He’s way better than a platoon player. Plus, he switch-hits, and isn’t terrible from the right side.
I also like the trade though.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions
You have to develop the pawn
Walk it through the game for a little while, and then maybe it’ll become a queen someday, if everything goes right.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Getz is ***
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
Here’s another aspect of the trade. If we had traded Melky straight up for Ryan Verdugo, what would the reaction be?
Let's just trust the process.
That would be awful
As much as we don’t like Melky, he does have some real value. Way more than 24 year old AA ballers.
Edgar knows best.
I’m not saying that I would have loved that, honestly asking for a reaction. But the 6+ years of control of Verdugo makes the trade a lot easier to swallow if Sanchez stinks up the joint.
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 2:03 PM EST up reply actions
are they pleased with this deal?
I can’t bring myself to look
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Mixed reception
Tyler Eugene Bowlin I guess the Royals are already committing to a 2012 losing season.
Rich Bennett Definitely sold high on Cabrera. Acquiring pitchers is always risky, but we got two good ones here.
William Smead GOD DAM*IT…this is getting rediculous. Fire everybody except the players and find managment people that know what the **** they are doing!!!!!
Hannah Phillips I feel like I just get attached to a player and then they get traded! :-( I know we desperately need pitching, but I am very sad.
Paul Livingston I wouldn’t be surprised if this turns out to be one of Dayton’s best moves. Melky had a career year and is due for some regression at the plate. Sanchez is VERY similar to Jorge De La Rosa and has the ability to pitch absolutely lights out. Honestly, this probably improved the Royals in 2 positions; CF and SP.
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by averagegatsby on Nov 7, 2011 2:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Fair deal
Neither player is very good. But one year of enigmatic outfielder for one year of enigmatic starting pitcher fills a glaring roster need, should be pretty close to an even wash financially (Melky should get $4-$5 million, while Sanchez should get $5-$6 million), and Sanchez is flawed but has some upside in a high risk, high reward kind of way.
The most likely scenario is that Sanchez gives a Royals a lot of 2011 Danny Duffy-type starts (lots of Ks, lots of BBs, few innings, underwhelming results), but if he can somehow maintain close to a 2.0 K/BB ratio without the benefit of facing pitchers three times a game, he could provide some value and needed innings.
by Gopherballs on Nov 7, 2011 2:02 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
but then he's a FA after 2012...
that’s the part I don’t really get, it’s a wash short term and does nothing long term
frees up Cain to start using his years
by BeauJackson on Nov 7, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, but what more can you expect from a trade where Melky was the main (and only) piece?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:06 PM EST up reply actions
I had no expectations, good or bad
And given that there was no impetus to make this trade today, I think I’d rather get back a pitcher under team control for longer
but maybe Verdugo is supposedly interesting
Sanchez is more likely than Melky
To be of value this July or this off-season (draft pick comp). Plus you don’t have to rush any pitchers.
I don’t get how anyone can be down on this. It was Melky Cabrera folks!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
And maybe he likes pitching at the K and wants to re-sign
Better to have a likely shot to re-sign Sanchez than re-sign Melky, IMO.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
why's that?
sanchez has been average to slightly above average in a pitchers park. he’s moving to the AL now, things might not go too well.
and things are likely to not go well for melky....
sanchez has been a solid pitcher every year but last year
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
yes, and it's easier to find a replacment CF (Cain) than a replacement pitcher
(not replacement level, an actual replacement)
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions
Means we don't commit to someone older
When Monty, Lamb and/or Dwyer will (hopefully) be ready. Maybe even Odorizzi.
Meanwhile, we already have a ready replacement for Melky.
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by philofthenorth on Nov 7, 2011 5:59 PM EST up reply actions
I can hear Denny's call now
“He drifts back and to left. Back, and to left. Back, and to left.”
We should trade for Vance Worley.
Royals need to field a team in 2012 and were short on pitchers
Melky was a short-term asset without much chance of bringing back much in term of long-term value, either a Vin Mazzaro type or a low minors lottery ticket. The Royals have a little short-term financial flexibility, so while Sanchez was a non-tender candidate for the Giants, the Royals can afford to pay him $5-$6 million and hope for the best.
This really is not much different than signing a one-year free agent pitcher. Or perhaps more accurately, one of those trades where teams swap bad contracts because one team had more of a need for a hitter and the other team had more of a need for a pitcher.
and even "meaningless" (in terms of playoff contention)
have non-zero value for teams
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
to me it's the perfect 'we're trying in 2012 but not willing to give up 2013-2017 to do it at this point' move
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions 11 recs
good way to put it
although I would not use the word “perfect”
jinx!
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
I basically agree with this perspective
I mean, maybe not “perfect,” but it makes sense under that rubric
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions
yup
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
I like this trade
It may be the first “initial DMGM move of the offseason” that I have liked.
Value for Melky before he regresses. A space for Cain. We improve our fielding in Center. Sanchez is not an ace but he is better than what we have. And we got a throw in. (who probably won’t amount to anything but hey, why not?)
After the speculation and resulting panic over the Myers for Jurrjens rumors, this is a big sigh of relief.
It makes sense fro us on multiple levels.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
DM decided America needed a Cain they could look up to
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2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV
Just as Lance Zawadzki has always been the SS of the future
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:04 PM EST up reply actions
There was something about Zawadzki that I did not like,
but I was never able to put my finger on it.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:04 PM EST up reply actions
Well, think of what other athletes had the name Lance?
Armstrong and Rentzel both were controversy laden.
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by KeepItCopacetic on Nov 7, 2011 9:50 PM EST up reply actions
Up until 30 minutes ago...
I thought he might have been the Braves’ CF of the future.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
Verdugo will help sell season tickets to Arvest Walmart Finiancial Services Field at Kauffman Stadium of Anaheim
makes sense as a business decision
by Freneau on Nov 7, 2011 2:06 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
I like this trade
I think it’s a fair trade. Sanchez’s walk struggles make me worry a bit, but I’m not going to lose sleep over it. An improvement in our rotation is always welcome, and it’s nice to have room for Cain in center field now.
I'm Keyon Dooling in the body of a skinny white kid.
You could say that this trade is
rather fantastic
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:08 PM EST up reply actions
;)
I'm Keyon Dooling in the body of a skinny white kid.
by ratherfantastic on Nov 7, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions
Cain is probably 2 WAR better than Melky defensively in CF
Maybe more if Melky shows up out of shape, per usual.
Somehow...
This trade is an example of how Dayton Moore is an incompetent GM who doesn’t understand the value of players or how to evaluate ML talent.
by WURoyal on Nov 7, 2011 2:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Really?
I think this trade is probably the most logical, “makes sense”, “probably a fair deal” trade that Dayton’s ever made.
Oh, wait, is THAT why you think it’s weird?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:11 PM EST up reply actions
as I've said all other this thread
1) JS is umm… kinda iffy
2) No reason to rush through a trade today. Is a 2013 FA who sucked in 2012 the best you can do for a guy coming off his career year?
3) Verdugo is Verdugo. Who knows.
I’d really rather have two Verdugos than Verugo & Sanchez. Sanchez is very unlilely to be be part of the next good Royals team, and is not a good bet to help short term either.
I’m all for selling high on Melky, but I don’t think this is a great return for that. It’s Nov 4.
1) JS is umm… kinda iffy
So was Melky. That’s why its a pretty even trade.
2) No reason to rush through a trade today. Is a 2013 FA who sucked in 2012 the best you can do for a guy coming off his career year?
I agree in general, but if a good trade comes by I think you have to take it. Opportunities don’t always come up all winter.
3) Verdugo is Verdugo. Who knows.
Right, he’s a throw in.
I don’t think this is a case where DM ripped the Giants off really. We get an iffy player with one year left, they get an iffy player with one year left. But we traded a position of abundance to fill a position of need. That’s what good teams do. And we didn’t acquire a 38 year old or an ex Brave or someone who pitches to contact. We got a guy with some upside. I’m not sure what more you can really ask for. It would be great if all our trades could be highway robbery, but sometimes we just have to settle for fair trades.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
I live every day like it's Nov 4th
that’s my mantra
by Freneau on Nov 7, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
1) JS has been a 2-3 win pitcher every year he has been healthy
2) So 19 starts with a xFIP of 4.36 means he sucks? Thats better than every started we had but 2, and it was a down year for him. Every other year he has been between 3.94 and 4.14
3) Vedugo is vedugo, who cares. We got a decent throw in.
I could definitely see the royals extending sanchez a year or two if he bounces back.
I don’t think the return for melky, who is going to regress, would get any better than a #3 with upside and a decent throw in
Somehow
this trade exemplifies every criticism of Dayton Moore
Yes
He didn’t get enough for the worthless scrapheap of a player he should never have signed last year to an unneeded free agent deal.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
Melky was a worthless sign
And not going to be a good player in 2012. But this HAS to be another example of Moore’s incompetence… because it has to be.
it's because he found out that sanchez had a world series ring
and his natural reaction was to give them his starting center fielder. it was only a fluke that the trade made sense.
by 9il on Nov 7, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
ok that makes sense.
On a side note, who is going to hit in the 2 spot? Or is Cain going to lead-off? I’ve read a lot which suggests Cain isn’t a lead-off guy (not high enough OBP).
My intuition is Gordon leading off with Gia in the 2 spot.
I'm sure he will...
logic and evidence be damned
and if he doesn’t leadoff, he’ll hit 2nd, behind whatever short white guy we have playing 2nd
we really need to get Gordon's bat in the fifth spot
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:21 PM EST up reply actions
I want Gordon hitting 7th or 8th
look how much that helped Texas with Napoli down there
second cleanup hitter = brilliant
by Freneau on Nov 7, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
they didnt even have him leading off in omaha...
why would they do that if they saw him as a leadoff hitter? still just assuming the worst?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
Cain will lead off, obviously, because he is really fast
That leaves AG, Butler, Hos, Frenchy, Moose – maybe in that order.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe
I thought the message with Gordon though was that they did value OBP in than spot
Let's hope.
I would LOVE for them to avoid hitting Cain leadoff if he can’t sustain a decent OBP, it’s just that I’ll believe their “OBP is important for the leadoff” when I see it.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
They certainly didn't move him off of it once he got rolling there.
Now, if they could just get Butler to bat 2nd.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
meanwhile on Facebook
Oh another trade I dont like. WHY??
Thank God he’s now the best pitcher on the team.
Stupid stupid stupid! Break up one of the best outfields in baseball for below average pitchers.
Congrats for finally selling high Dayton and getting what you NEED
WoW really! We get rid of a very productive player for 2 high ERA pitchers. Hmmm….. I guess Mr Glass is still to cheap. Don’t worry I am sure we will get more players from Atlanta.
Sick of the Royals messing up a good thing? What was good about last year, besides our outfield? Come on.. This is the beginning touches to a masterpiece.
I would of preferred Francouer leaving over Melky, but I like this trade.
What on earth were they thinking… I think we had one of the most dynamic outfield line-ups with Gordon, Cabrera, & Francoeur…
If Cain steps up with his bat then I will eat my words, but this trade isn’t making me comfortable. Melky is a strong force at the plate…what happened to the Royals of old who used to keep their best players?
Really? What are we mentally retarded, melky was a bad@ss
Every time one of our players has a good season we trade him away for a couple of pitchers nobody has ever heard of. Makes it real hard to keep rooting for a cellar dweller every year. But I will never b a fair weather fan, just got to keep hoping they will get it right one of these years. GO ROYALS
GOD DAM*IT…this is getting rediculous. Fire everybody except the players and find managment people that know what the **** they are doing!!!!!
I’ll miss Melky’s wall grabs where he pretended to not catch it.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV
by BHWick on Nov 7, 2011 2:11 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
Badassedness Is A
Tool he will always own.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 7, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions
i was listening to petro after the trade broke...
i thought about driving into the stone wall at 80 due to both petro and the callers stupidity…he’s apparently ready to blow frank wren to get him to take wil myers for jurrjens
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
Jurrjens must have won Petro his fantasy league or something
I used to think that Petro was actually somewhat intelligent and did his homework (at least as compared to other radio guys). Lately, he’s been doing a really good job at proving he’s just as dumb and lazy as the rest of them, though.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
its bad when fucking danny parkins' baseball analysis is better than petro's
and thats what i got today…i honestly didnt know before today if parkins had ever seen a baseball game
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:40 PM EST up reply actions
Really? What are we mentally retarded, melky was a bad@ss
No, not “we”…
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:15 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
awesome
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
oh yeah
forgot this one
WELL, if they bring up Clint Robinson to fill his place in the line-up we just might have a winner…???
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
2012: Either the Royals win, or John Cusack saves us with his RV
This guy is clearly an amateur Facebook poster:
Every time one of our players has a good season we trade him away for a couple of pitchers nobody has ever heard of. Makes it real hard to keep rooting for a cellar dweller every year. But I will never b a fair weather fan, just got to keep hoping they will get it right one of these years. GO ROYALS
How can you leave out the obligatory “we trade all our good players to the Yankees reference”?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
my fave:
2 high ERA pitchers
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
my favorite
I’ll miss Melky’s wall grabs where he pretended to not catch it.
my memory must be going. I don’t remember all the wall grabs by Melky. I do remember the balls hit over his head as he lumbered back and flailed…
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
I like the one who says no one has ever heard of Jonathan Sanchez
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:10 PM EST up reply actions
who?
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 8, 2011 6:56 PM EST up reply actions
OBLIGATORY NO WORRIES WE CAN FLIP SANCHEZ NEXT YEAR FOR SUPER DUPER PROSPECTS COMMENT
even though this almost never actually happens
We'll just flip him for a centerfielder next year!
Circle of life.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Yes
We will flip him for Rick Ankiel. Circle of life.
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
by ChiefWildcat on Nov 7, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Why would you flip the guy
who is going to win you Games 3 and 6 of the 2012 World Series?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
to play 2B?
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
reply fail
sorry
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
Really more a question
as to what to do with Pujols/Hosmer/Butler. If you could play 1 of the 3 at 2B, our problems are solved.
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
ha, just thinking of Billy playing second base makes me giggle
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
the range factor in his dWAR
would be killer
2010 = The beginning of a dynasty
Maybe I'd just set my expectations low after all the Myers-Jurrjens talk
But I thought this was a prank by Will when I read it — too good to be true.
It helps us tremendously from a roster construction standpoint, and we got another lottery ticket on a minor league pitcher. That’s a huge win to me. I’m not sure if I’m more happy or relieved, but I’m definitely a lot of both.
Melky could easily regress horribly, leading to a type B free agent situation where we don’t even want to offer him arbitration.
He could also show up to Spring Training 50 pounds heavier
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions
This is true
He very well might be unplayable in CF.
Cain is 2 Wins better in CF than Melky in 2012. I’m guaranteeing it.
It'll be somewhat funny watching him run down all those inside the park HRs
in right center at AT&T too.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
I'd argue that he was almost unplayable in CF as it was
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:13 PM EST up reply actions
What pitcher would have been fair compensation for Melky?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Roy Halladay
with the Phillies picking up about $5M per year on the rest of his contract.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:29 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I don't know
Sanchez is like apple to me. You are buying for the name that covers up the over priced and under powered hardware.
Which isn’t to say he sucks, but there a are a better pitchers with a fraction of the name recognizability.
Edgar knows best.
you're not getting them for melky though...
there were talks of cain AND myers for fucking jurrjens
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I think that's not really the case
I think a reporter asked the Braves whom they would like from the Royals prospects, and they said they were keen on Myers and Cain, not that they were seeking BOTH.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions
petro was talking that the royals were contemplating myers/cain for prado/jurrjens...
and saying that it wouldve been a good move
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
and here i am assuming that talk radio would get the details right
Let’s hope they were never actually contemplating that.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions
Speaking of driving cars into walls, I about drove mine straight into 810's studio
when I heard Petro crapping that out of his mouth last week.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
between the 810 guys and whatever fucking loudmouths that are on 610 from like 9-12
ive been regretting my decision not to go into broadcasting
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Overpriced or not
An Apple will at least work. As opposed to running out a 15 year old computer with Windows 95 or an Ubuntu box that no one in the office knows how to run.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
You buy an Apple product
and you know it’ll work well.
You put Sanchez on the mound and you know he’ll walk a ton of guys.
So, yeah, they’re absolutely alike. Total cost certainty.
by 2X2L on Nov 7, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Yeah but he also strikes out a lot of guys
He’s like your friend who does home built gaming rigs.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 4:48 PM EST up reply actions
So, he'll overheat because your friend skimped on fan size and RPMs
To put in your third DVD+/-RW drive?
We should trade for Vance Worley.
eff dvd drives
When I build pcs they have no cd or dvd drives, its all digital baby.
i would've like a guy who hasn't been getting worse since he was 25
and had pitched in the AL before to get a sense of what he’d do. but we’ll see.
well, we werent getting halladay for melky...
i dont know what you expected…trade from a position of depth for a position of weakness….trading for a guy with a better track record than melky…same salaries…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
If you were a GM and entered the offseason with the goal of improving a weak offense
would you have given up more for Melky?
I’m not saying I wouldn’t. It just didn’t seem like Melky had that much value
Definite Win in my eyes
I’d be willing to bet that Cain will put up similar numbers to melky this year with better defense. Sanchez is a legit #3 with great strikeout numbers. If he can control the walks he could turn into a #2. Even if he doesn’t, swapping melky for a legit #3 AND opening up a spot for Cain is worth it.
Giants fans hate the trade, we sold high on melky, bought low on sanchez, cain has a spot to play now… whats not to like
I am decidely aroused this afternoon.
I’ve been somewhat of a Jonathon Sanchez fan, partly because I figured he’d end up always being a 3WAR kinda guy – he’d come cheap. His 2011 stunk a bit though, so it’s hard to imagine he’d attain Type A status.
This is a phenomenal trade though. Cain starts, another 2.5ishWAR pitcher to add to the pile, Myers is safe. Huh.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
Solid trade
Lose a little offense, but improved hitting is coming up through the pipeline so the dropoff should be minimal.
Defense improves with addition of Cain in CF.
Sanchez isn’t Nolan Ryan, but he instantly becomes the closest that we have to him in a rotation that really needed a spark.
KC also gets a lefty thrown into the deal to hedge against the bet.
Not much not to like here, honestly.
Good point
Forgot our OF defense should improve quite a bit next year.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
that's why Cain will be such a good addition
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly.
A fielder with range who can cover the gaps between left and right. It is upon such formulae that great outfield trios are built.
Gordon's range is pretty close to average, I'd say
and his arm made him substantially above average this season,
Frenchy is the guy who is only average due to his arm. Incredibly overrated defensively because of his (awesome) arm and a couple of great catches against Seattle this season.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
facebook'd
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions
So, Melky's 200 hits
Think it helped convince Sabean to make the deal?
Belt/Melky/Schierholtz
Will not be a good defensive OF.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Yeesh...good God there are going to be some hits bouncing around the gaps out there
Sabean should just issue each of them one of these in spring training.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:32 PM EST up reply actions
Lincecum goes postal next year
I guarantee it.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Nov 7, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
I Have One
And it actually works. I love cheap gizmos that work.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 7, 2011 7:21 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, but do you get a good squeeze on fly balls when you put your glove on the end of it?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 9:36 PM EST up reply actions
Fly Balls Are
Too small to use it on.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 8, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Schierholtz is good
but yeah… the others, not so much.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
That,
Plus jogui clearly worked out so well for them that sabean will trade for any retread OFer the Royals sling their way.
For giving away only one year of Melky, Moore did impressively well today…selling high, buying low, etc. What everyone else has already said. I actually like this trade. Plus, if Giants fans hate it, thats a definite perk.
Waiting to deliver my final verdict until I hear whether or not Sanchez was promised the starting spot in center field
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:31 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
You mean Cain?
Or are you being sarcastic because you don’t think Cain has what it takes to be in CF?
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 2:36 PM EST up reply actions
Struck out on a slider in the dirt
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Nov 7, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
I think that one just buzzed past his helmet
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
who what when?
2012... the year the Royals finish above .500
by Somewhere Over Dwayne Bowe on Nov 7, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
The Clapping Man
is Orson Welles in Citizen Kane, right?
"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."
DM does the predictable
Says the trade clears the way for Cain to start in CF. Honestly, I wasn’t entirely sure.
they played the teleconference...
shitty sound quality as he was on a cell phone…said what you’d expect…not going to try to lock sanchez up right now…hoping they can get him under control…like the strikeouts and the hit rate, etc
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions
Also, they see Verdugo as a 1-2 inning reliever.
http://royals.mlblogs.com/2011/11/07/dayton-moore-conference-call-notes-sanchez-acquisition/
He was a reliever until this year
I’m not sure he showed anything to validate the move to the rotation.
His K rate went down, and his walk rate more or less stayed the same
Bullpen he here comes…
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
There's value to a LHP 1-2 inning reliever with good K-rates
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:19 PM EST up reply actions
Taking a look at Oliver's projections
they have him projected for a 4.18 ERA in SF in 2012. Putting it in my WAR-o-meter to adjust the replacement level and stuff, I have Sanchez as a 1.6 win pitcher in 2012… assuming he pitches 200 innings.
I had Melky at around 2 WAR earlier this season. All things considered, just from the WAR-dollars standpoint (not sufficient to analyze the whole trade), it’s close enough to even.
It makes sense for the Royals to get something for Melky while his value is high, and Cain, as he did in 2011, needs to get an extended look in the major leagues to see what he can do before the Royals are seriously in contention. Sanchez has some upside, and the Royals weren’t going to get anything likely to be good for Melky.
So yeah, like others, I think this is a fair trade of two useful, but flawed players.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:36 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
thats, as you say, "fair"
I don’t hate this trade at all. I just don’t love it.
If, for nothing else, Melky and his weird emotional hold on the FO/Manager is gone. We don’t have to worry about keeping anymore promises to him.
Just send Frenchy
Rosetta Stone for Chrismas. I’m sure he’ll get the hang of it before Spring Training.
just promises to Sanchez
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
Now that the Giants have Melk
We can sign Beltran!
by KCTiger on Nov 7, 2011 2:37 PM EST via mobile reply actions
The possibility of a one-year deal for Beltran
is irrationally attractive to me, I wish the Royals were ahead a couple of years so it might happen.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:41 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
i want him so badly to be the bat off of the bench when we're ready to win...
like seattle was tryign to do with griffey before he got sleepy
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I can see him still being good enough to be an OF/DH in 2013
although given Beltran’s luck the past couple years, the odds of a piano falling out of an airplane onto his head are pretty high
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions
like a piano could fall on gordon's head...he'd catch it off to the side with one hand
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Goddammit. If a piano falls on Air Gordon's head, you're responsible.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
I looked at free-agent CFs
I’d like to see Nate McLouth signed to an incentive-laden contract.
No. Stay away.
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:21 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure most of you guys on here have already analyzed the shit out of this.
But I do think Dayton did a decent job on this one. Bottom line: we need more major league calliber pitchers, and with Cain looking like he’s ready to play every day in CF, the drop off from Melky probably won’t be that bad. Plus we improve defensively in CF.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Nov 7, 2011 2:45 PM EST reply actions
Is San Francisco a hitter friendly park?
Will Kauffman/Mall of America Wal-mart McDonalds Bank of America field at Getz stadium help Sanchez?
BFIB
AT&T is very hitter friendly.
by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Nov 7, 2011 2:51 PM EST up reply actions
according to what?
http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor
this has it as the most pitcher friendly park in bsaeball…and its not close
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:54 PM EST up reply actions
I was partially joking
I had a good chat with PYTAOY yesterday
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
Thought you meant hitter friendly
my bad
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions
you are out of control today....
did your teacher give out smarties in 1st hour?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It was joke
forgot teh sarcasm font…..I suck
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
San Fran is a bit of a pitcher's park
KC is a bit of a hitter’s park.
Here are some good park factors:
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions
When I heard
I expected to get on here and finally hear some love for a DM trade. That was naive of me.
Can’t believe this is getting anything but good reviews. I don’t think it’s a A+ trade but definitely solid. As others have said, what did people really expect for Melky? All year on this board I’ve read nothing but malaise towards Melky Cabrera and how he’s blocking Cain and how this season was a fluke. Now we flip him for starting pitching that we desperately need and it’s not a solid move? Don’t think this FO can ever win on this board.
(If you said you thought it was a good or fair trade above, this is obviously not intended for you)
by I need more Esteban on Nov 7, 2011 2:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think most people agree with you
Very few people are saying it is a bad move. I think I am the most negative, and it is just a “meh” reaction.
they probably do but reading your reaction was what first surprised me
I understand the “meh” but your post comes across as bad trade to me. I feel like you’ve hated Melky all year? Do I have Roger Clemens syndrome and am “mis-remembering”?
by I need more Esteban on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
yeah...that was the weird part to me as well...
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:01 PM EST up reply actions
I don't know how you can talk about Sanchez and not return to his walk rate..
That’s a huge number/issue
its an issue that is slightly mitigated by his incredible K/rates
he’s been an average/above average pitcher even with the crazy walk rates
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
if he posts a 2 WAR or above in the AL, I'll be happy
the walks are a big concern though. he no longer gets to strike the pitcher 2-3 times per 9 innings.
The move to the AL is why I like the high-K, high-BB profile
He’s not the type of pitcher who will fall apart against better AL lineups. We know he has the stuff to compete.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
this too
between Sanchez and Jurrjens – i think Sanchez has a better chance to reach 2 WAR in the AL. I’d rather have the two years of control, but melky can only get you so much.
high K, high BB usually do worse in the AL
Sanchez’s stuff is not that great — ~90 MPH fastball — but he pitches up in the zone.
Yeah, I just saw the Cameron commentary posted somewhere in this thread
And it seems like bad news. I may have to amend my previous comment.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
As I tweeted
“if Sanchez could just get his walks under control….” = “if Melky just had better range…”
I’d like to apologize to my twitter feed for taking all the glory and reposting essentially the same thing here.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
and I think it's the reason that this isn't
looked at as “great trade” by me. It’s solid. I think Sanchez has been a solid 3/4 type starter (not much analysis with that so sorry) and the Royals have very little of those types right now.
Maybe I should’ve expected more for Melky but I think at the beginning of 2011 most people would have been relaly happy with this.
by I need more Esteban on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
At the beginning of 2011, this would have been such an incredible win nobody would have believed it
At the beginning of 2011, most people on this board were pissed that Melky had been promised the starting CF job through June. To get a quality major league starter, plus a minor league pitcher as a throw in, for that would have been unbelievable.
$1.25 million got us sanchez plus really good CF play for a year
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Yeah, that's a good way to look at it...
a transaction that increased the value of the organizational portfolio. Very Tampa Bay of them.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
Yeah, but our new pitching coach was hired to fix exactly that problem
Plus, his walks last year were a career high, and a real aberration. Also, he’s at an age when many pitchers start pitching with a little more finesse.
I’m not predicting he’ll be an ace in 2012, but if he pitches like it’s 2010 it’s easily a win for us.
by moregritplease on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
This is a trade to be cautiously optimistic about
Everyone’s covered what needs to be said:
Melky regression (or not, he’s only 27….)
Sanchez K rate (and BB rate)
the FA quandary of 2012-2013
the possibility that this really makes no difference to our team’s chances
Todd Haley's kids know more swear words than I do.
by kcisbetterthanstlateverything on Nov 7, 2011 2:57 PM EST reply actions
anyone else really interested in scotts take on the trade?
i know i am…what the hell is he doing? working? what an asshole
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 2:58 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
brainstorming ideas for a way to oppose the trade
by WURoyal on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions 3 recs
nice timing
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:00 PM EST up reply actions
No one tries on jean shorts.
What is going to be wrong with them? They’ll look bad?
manufactured jean shorts or cutt offs
there’s a big difference there.
As in cutt offs are always a good move. Manufactured can go either way.
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Nov 7, 2011 3:27 PM EST up reply actions
I think I remember him saying in one of the 3,617 pitching threads we've had since the end of the season
…that he likes Sanchez.
Maybe he meant Freddy, I don’t remember.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST up reply actions
I hate actually having something to do at work when a trade or signing comes down
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
good point, we need a poll
maybe Will can let Annoyed Grunt post the poll
by Loose Seal on Nov 7, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Hmmmmm
I guess probably B, considering the impact isn’t huge or long-term. The Cain-related impact is larger and more long-term. So probably B+/A-. I guess it depends on if you’re taking the magnitude of the trade into account. If so, the more B-ish. If you don’t take that into account, then I think definitely an A.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:14 PM EST up reply actions
yeah..taking into account all of the possible melky scenarios....
this has to be an A…cain is no longer blocked…melky isnt going to be here to suck/be signed long term…we got a solid MLB starting pitcher
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
and realistically...
there were only a few teams looking for a CF. And if you tried to trade him as a COF, he wouldn’t have had the value.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
I Called The
Sabean Scenario a few days ago; shocked I got it right.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Nov 7, 2011 7:45 PM EST up reply actions
personally i really like the trade:
I was born in 89, which means the Royals have had a grand total of one winning season in which I actually remember and trades like this show me that we are in it to compete now. This trade gets us a serviceable lefty in our rotation. Sanchez was solid in the latter part of 2010, if not the giants best pitcher for that time. He was battling injuries much of last year. We bring up Cain and as long as he performs he will hit just as well as melky and will field better. I don’t really see a drawback to the trade. This shows where the depth of our farm system is so great. We can trade our starting CF from last season and bring up a prospect just as solid. I was frustrated with GMDM before these last two offseasons but I like where the team is now. Making solid moves to immediately make us better with out sacrificing our minor league talent. What else can you ask for?
by Lickteig25 on Nov 7, 2011 2:58 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Haven't read the 400 comments above, but I really like this trade
This isn’t a long-term difference maker, but it’s a positive move by Moore. Melky and his aberrational career spike is gone, and with it the chance that Moore might extend him. In his place, the Royals get a decent SP place filler for 2012. And I’d much rather have Sanchez for 2012 than Melky for the same year. And, of course, the beauty is that now Cain is free to be an everyday starter (barring some odd, unexpected FA CF signing).
Good move, Dayton. I’m impressed.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 2:59 PM EST reply actions 6 recs
my thoughts word for word...
plus i think it lessens significantly the chances of them trading myers for a similar level pitcher
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
I very much hope that is true
Hopefully this and maybe another minor move satisfies Moore’s Jones for 2012 starting pitching and no big prospects are traded (unless they are traded for good young SP’s with many years of team control remaining).
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
bedard and we're good to go...
and by time his arm breaks again, monty might be ready t ogo
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I'm in
You fax it over and I’ll sign it.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
this would be acceptable
i’m not crazy about sanchez in the AL, but he didn’t sell the farm. he actually continued “the process” by freeing up space for cain.
I always knew, deep down, you really liked me, Scott
Nice boxers, by the way.
by Tito42 on Nov 7, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions 5 recs
Where did the smiley boxer meme originate?
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
in fact, some of the "commentary" above would be a good source
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
You really need to do another one Tito42!
That was just…..no words can describe my joy when first viewing it.
I take the week off between Xmas and New Years
Despite being a federal employee, I actually attempt to work hard and don’t take much vacation. I inevitably get bored around the holidays. So this is going to happen. Plus, I upgraded my desktop this year, so it will be much less frustrating.
I am getting tired of the increasing fanboyism
From Rany and Scott!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions 6 recs
I've turned into the average, fairly knowledgeable fan.
:(
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Awesome
Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan
by Old Man Duggan on Nov 7, 2011 8:27 PM EST up reply actions
What have you done
with the real Scott McKinney?
by Black and Gold on Nov 7, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
he didn't sign it -SMK,
I don’t believe it’s really him
-ShMG47
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 5:00 PM EST up reply actions
something Rob Neyer came up with a while back (I think)
he just did a thing where he compared a team’s BB and HR’s allowed and BB and HRs, then ranked teams by that, and compared it with the standings.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
Are you trying to steal tiquanunderwear’s glory by analyzing the link that he first posted?
Let's just trust the process.
by trusttheprocess on Nov 7, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions
I apologize
Will, please delete my comment above. alot.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
I am very angry
Matt Klassen owes $56 and a hot dog
BFIB
by tiquanunderwear on Nov 7, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
six Vin Mazzaros = one Justin Upton
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:20 PM EST up reply actions
Collins is a dealbreaker
is a game actually official without him coming in and walking someone?
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Nov 7, 2011 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
he's just a little guy though...
you can tell him to take his guarantee and shove it up his ass
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:28 PM EST up reply actions
he's 5'5"...how much of a fight could it be
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:31 PM EST up reply actions
And longer innings
BALL!
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Nov 7, 2011 3:33 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It says right at the bottom of that page
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
by RoyalPug on Nov 7, 2011 3:52 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
Forget what I said about the $6 million salary for 2012
Apparently the BTF poster confused Jonathan Sanchez with Freddy Sanchez. But I would imagine Jonathan will make $5-6 million in arb.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
mlbtr estimated it at $5.2 i believe
and moore said him and melky would be right at the same salary likely
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:04 PM EST up reply actions
FWIW, the MLBTR forecast method came up with something like $4.4M for Melky
The money is nearly a wash and the payroll budget for 2012 is anything but tight, so who cares if Sanchez costs a little more.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions
No shit
It’s been well over an hour at this point. I’m about to cancel my subscription.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 3:10 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
fighting a damn cold.
I just saw this. I will get something up later.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Nov 7, 2011 3:15 PM EST up reply actions
is this a case of winning by subtraction over addition?
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
sanchez over sos, mazzaro, adcock, etc
is addition by addition
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:06 PM EST up reply actions
Royals – Francis + Sanchez – Melky’s offense + Cain’s defense + Improvement by Hosmer & Moose’s bat = 77 wins.
you and your Jedi sabermetrics be damned!
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Nov 7, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions 2 recs
Dave Cameron on this
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/jonathan-sanchez-isnt-as-good-as-his-k/
Sanchez’s high walk and high strikeout rates are the product of his propensity for pitching up in the strike zone, where contact is less frequent but so is the likelihood of getting a called strike. By pitching up in the zone, Sanchez is essentially choosing a strategy that increases the likelihood of deep counts, thus increasing both his walk and strikeout rates. Unlike some other high walk/high strikeout pitchers who simply need to improve their command of premium stuff, Sanchez is getting his whiffs through location, and if he began to throw more strikes, he’d likely see a significant drop in his strikeout rate as well.
Evaluating what Sanchez could be if he could just get his walks under control is a bit of a fantasy, and one that is not likely to come into being. Instead, we need to evaluate Sanchez for what he actually is, and that requires looking at the negative value of the walks in addition to the positive value of the strikeouts.
Yeah, but it sounds like Cameron is saying that Sanchez' high walk rate
is a function of his strategy/approach, which is something he’s consciously choosing to do, rather than just a part of his skill set that can’t be changed. Isn’t that exactly what a good pitching coach is supposed to correct/help? Not saying that Eiland is definitely going to step in and work a miracle, but it would be different if it was just how Sanchez pitched, rather than how he CHOSE to pitch.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Nov 7, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
Sign Melky...
throw in a few potato’s and carrots..baby, you got a..
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Nov 7, 2011 3:08 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Massive kudos to Dayton Moore for trading Melky
Despite many others predicting it, I didn’t think Moore would pull the trigger. I thought he liked Melky too much and valued him too highly to agree to a reasonable trade offer. Nice job.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:16 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I think this also fits "the find a pitcher like Paulino strategy"
Sanchez doesn’t throw as hard as Paulino, but if he does what Felipe did this year (issue fewer BBs) it could be interesting to see how good he could be.
I wonder if Cain improving the defense actually came into play in this decision… or maybe it was how much the Braves coveted Cain that convinced DM he was worth holding on to.
I can't really see Sanchez as a Paulino-like find
Paulino didn’t have a large MLB track record. Sanchez, on the other hand, has a lot of data. I think we have a much better idea of what he is (a roughly average SP, while playing as a Giant, and probably worse than that in the AL).
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:25 PM EST up reply actions
He likely doesn't have Paulino's upside
But similar in the sense that he should get his fair share of Ks. Agreed though – his track record is far more extensive and seems like #3 starter is his cap.
Now if the Royals trade for a Beachy/Gio type pitcher, or even if they sign someone like Harden, it could be an interesting rotation next year (with lots of Ks… and maybe lots of walks too).
With Gio at 2B and Moose at 3B, maybe it's a good idea for Royals pitchers to avoid balls in play.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:35 PM EST up reply actions
at least now there should be a guy in CF who can catch a ball put in the air
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:36 PM EST up reply actions
You've got to like the OF defense now
Time to load up on the flyball pitchers! Not really, but kinda. No, not really.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:37 PM EST up reply actions
i'd prefer we loaded up on good pitchers...
but if they’re going to be bad…might as well be bad in the air
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Nov 7, 2011 3:39 PM EST up reply actions
This trade in particular makes me think that they were talking about Melky back in July too..
when the Giants finally went and got Beltran instead. Moore’s line then was that all he was offered was what they already had… this is decidedly more than he already has.
Nick Swisher and Johnny Giavatella deserve treats in the Kaufmann parking lot.
im so very excited that when i go read comments on mlbtr it's the other teams fans who are livid with their gm
Fire Everyone
what did giants fans want for sanchez though?
the giants are still in win now mode, i don’t see how its a terrible trade for them. melky is kind of question mark, sanchez is kind of a question mark.
They see the Melky we (on this site) see
Useful, flawed player, overpaid and likely to regress. I think they’d rather have kept Sanchez.
Twitter: awolfson0
great line here...
My lasting memory of Melky Cabrera was from the 2010 National League Division Series. He looked like he was swinging a bat that had a rope tied on the barrel, and the other end of the rope was wrapped around his torso and tied to his ankle
Fire Everyone
when he swung, his foot came up and hit him in the torso?
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Nov 7, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions
Wow, this will blow your mind
Type in “Verdugo” into the “Spanish to English” mode.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Nov 7, 2011 3:27 PM EST reply actions 3 recs
If Sanchez doesn't have to leave at least two games in 2012 because of bowel related issues
this is a loss for the Royals
“I really like this trade ………
since Cabrera’s numbers for 2011 are like a younger Carlos Beltran with .305 avg., 18 HRs, 87 RBIs, 102 runs, and 20 stolen bases while Sanchez has yet to show the control or focus to be a consistent winner! on top of that, the Giants really don’t need another starter, but they sure as hell need more offense!
it gets my stamp of approval."
Fire Everyone
he hit .300 from both sides of the plate. hardly “platoon” material. OPS higher from left side, but you can’t call a guy a “platoon” player if he hits over .300 from both sides.
Cabrera will continue to hit, as long as they don’t bat him in front of the pitcher, which is what the Braves did. & I doubt they dealt for him to bury him in the order. He’ll hit a ton of doubles in that park.
Over what period of time has he hit .300 from both sides?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Nov 7, 2011 3:43 PM EST up reply actions
I now wish that this move had been made at the '12 trade deadline...
I feel like this “first!” and “give credit!” controversy could have made for a great Gamethread meme and by its very nature doubled our Gamethread comments, thus making RR champion of the interwebz. I fear we’ll forget all about it come March. I’d like to add this to the official portfolio of Dayton Moore oversights.
by Tracer Bullet 82 on Nov 7, 2011 3:49 PM EST via mobile reply actions
I expect to be referenced every time someone tries it then.
I'd prefer a link to my post, but quoting me on your signature line would suffice
by Tracer Bullet 82 on Nov 7, 2011 3:57 PM EST via mobile up reply actions
I can't believe we traded with the Giants
And no Belt.
by Dadunca on Nov 7, 2011 4:29 PM EST reply actions 2 recs
From MLBTR via MLB.com...
Sanchez was set to battle Barry Zito for the Giants’ fifth starter job next year.
Is that a compliment or dis’?
"I'm afraid that I just blue myself." - Tobias Funke
Put me down as for the trade
This trade has more upside for the Royals than down.
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