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Royals Fired Frank White For Being Too Critical?

Cimg0036_tiny by Freneau on in Kansas City Royals News

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I wasn't pitch-fork ready when I heard that Frank White was not returning to Royals broadcasts in 2012. However, Jeff Passan has made the discussion a little more interesting:

I'm told the Royals fired Frank White because team thought he was too critical. To fire him is bad. To fire him for that is unconscionable.

For what it's worth, the KC Star's story on the matter suggested nothing along these lines. But obviously, that doesn't tell us much. There's very unlikely to be anything on the record about this, other than the usual bromides. Moreover, there's the murky FSKC-Royals decision tree, and again, on record, we'll get very little. The only source of additional news here, will have to come from White himself, who will certainly have people ready to listen.

The Royals are in a tough spot here. The team/FSKC has every right to go in another direction, and in the past White has been fairly prickly about being denied or removed from similar Royal-for-life-I'm-a-Famous-guy roles. A number of fans are upset about Frank being fired and a few days the Royals are going to take some heat for it. For me, I'm much more concerned about why he was fired.

I agree with Passan -- who is a nationally respected baseball writer with KC ties -- that firing Frank for being critical of the team is a bad thing. The odd, and scary thing, is that I would have never considered him critical in the first place. I can begrudgingly understand and even warrant that a team would not want a truly critical voice on team broadcasts (although this could also mean more entertaining TV and maybe more money, etc). But if Frank White was too critical what could they possibly want? Can any of us name three negative things the man said? Coupled with the short-sighted decision to dump Fanfest in favor of focusing on out-of-town corporate junketers this summer, we're looking at a rough winter from Royals leadership.

Are the bad old days of a paranoid ownership returning?

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At least we still have Ryan

Good game homie

by tiquanunderwear on Dec 2, 2011 12:27 PM EST reply actions  

Absolutely ridiculous

If Frank was critical in the first place, his replacement won’t last a week.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 12:27 PM EST reply actions  

While I don't like it, I think it is fairly common for management to exercise their power in this way

They want their broadcasters to be positive and not “too critical.” I didn’t think Frank was too critical (just not very good at his job overall). But clearly the Royals did. And that’s a job where you have to be very positive about the team. That’s why all team broadcasters are.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 12:29 PM EST reply actions  

Many of us are probably wondering how to be less critical than Frank though.

Unless they don’t mean on the air. But on-air comments are all we really have. He has his 2 interviews a week with Nick Wright which I hear with some regularity, but those are never very critical either; even after Nick pushes him on a particular topic. When Frank White was just having a conversation about the Royals, he was much better to listen to and did well to speak positively whatever the circumstances. Even when Ned Yost was hired as manager, Frank answered questions positively about it, saying he was enjoying his role as a broadcaster.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

yea, that's the thing...

i have no recollection of him being negative

by Freneau on Dec 2, 2011 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

This is just from what I remember from game threads,

but didn’t he criticize some of the middle infield play, maybe their positioning and/or lack of efficiently turning double-plays? And maybe Giavotella’s range or fielding ability?

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 2, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

He's analyzed the double plays made and not made.

But is that critical? I would hope not. That’s the only way for a color commentator to do his job.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, probably something along those lines

with an addition of being critical of the MI’s footwork around the bag.

Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.-Bertrand Russell

by Dr. van Strijcker on Dec 2, 2011 2:38 PM EST up reply actions  

The only time I remember Frank being critical

was when he AND Ryan jumped on the Royals for not extending the backstop nets. Yet Ryan is getting an extension if the rumor mill is accurate.

That information is somewhat classified.

by Karte on Dec 2, 2011 12:35 PM EST reply actions  

it seemed like things were trending positive

Rany was welcomed back, the Royals launched Fanfest, did numerous fan/blogger events, and all the while Glass was supposedly a new model owner

by Freneau on Dec 2, 2011 12:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I never thought Frank was a particularly good broadcaster

but I never thought he was too critical. The whole situation is strange

by Connor Moylan on Dec 2, 2011 12:37 PM EST reply actions  

Occam's razor

Ignore the obvious answer that he wasn’t a good broadcaster in favor of a conspiracy theory that they fired him because he was too critical, even though no one thought he was very critical. Especially if it paints the Royals FO in a negative light.

Wait, that’s not how Occam’s razor works?

I think Royals fans sound more paranoid than the ownership.

by Big Guy on Dec 2, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with using Occam's razor

but look around at all the bad announcers with jobs….bad announcers don’t get fired, critical announcers do.

by Loose Seal on Dec 2, 2011 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

To be fair, it was not a Royals fan that reported this.

It was a national baseball writer and I don’t think anyone here is leaping to strong conclusions. It is just another explanation that fits the facts.

by Connor Moylan on Dec 2, 2011 1:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Since this is a statistics-based fan page,

do you have statistics to back up your claim that Frank wasn’t a good broadcaster?

Does that mean that Ryan is a good broadcaster? Most people on this site would probably disagree.

I liked Frank more than Splitt, and way more than Ryan.

Poll, anyone? :-)

That information is somewhat classified.

by Karte on Dec 2, 2011 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't agree with you more.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Dec 2, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with both of those statements wholeheartedly

Splitt was great and Ryan and Frank both pretty much stink at their jobs.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

and splitt was far more critical than frank was

to the point where i could see the organization getting mad

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 2, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

So are you saing the Royals killed Splitt?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Too soon

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

This is the number one reason I don't buy this

When the guy that Frank replaces was obviously far more critical than he is, I find it very difficult to believe that Frank was pushed out for being too critical

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 1:42 PM EST up reply actions  

You think Passan is lying? Or you don’t trust his source?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I put much less credibility into twitter postings than actual articles in general

I’d put more stock in this if it was in an actual article that had gone through a couple editors.

Either way, I don’t think Passan is lying. And his source might honestly believe what he’s saying.

But the main thing is that nothing about this story makes sense: Frank isn’t very critical, his predecessor was, the producer was let go at the same time, and he couldn’t possibly have been too critical. Oo I’m more skeptical of it than a story that’s more plausible

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 1:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Oo I’m more skeptical of it than a story that’s more plausible

That makes sense. Right or wrong, that was my feeling on the Bruce Chen story.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Scott, have you read the Birnbaum piece on Bayesian thinking?

http://sabermetricresearch.blogspot.com/2011/11/research-conclusions-have-to-be.html

I’ve been thinking about it a lot in the context of the discussion yesterday about Chen and also the earlier larger discussion on how readily people accept FIP. In our discussions, we almost always treat the subject of dispute in a vacuum without much discussion on how plausible that information would have been to each of us before we heard it. One of the things I’ve taken away from Birnbaum is that we’re almost never disagreeing over the information we’ve just received. We’re disagreeing on how plausible that information would have been in the status quo ante. The fruitful area of discussion would be why we assign that level of plausibility.

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 2:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sure there’s a great deal of truth in that. And no, I hadn’t read it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I just read it.

It’s a good non-mathematical (sort of) explanation of the application of Bayes and the lack thereof.

A link in the article was to this
http://lesswrong.com/
At a few glances, I see a hundred little Mott ScKinney’s and DSinKC’s running around arguing in depth and at length about rationality, 24/7. I’m intrigued but also very scared.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 2, 2011 7:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Exactly

The dispute is over the prior distribution and (occasionally) weighting.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Dec 2, 2011 2:53 PM EST up reply actions  

Scott, not everyone can be Vin Scully.

And to be honest I think saying this or that sucks is basing it totally on their own likes / dislikes, comfort level, personality, etc. Just like I love Denny Matthews, while a lot of people hate him. And where I don’t like to listen to BOB DAVIS.

I liked Ryan and Paul. When Paul had to stop, I liked Ryan and Frank. I want at least one of the announcers to be a pro with experience. Otherwise you get a chick in the booth that sounds drunk every night (cough, Yankees, cough) or two guys on Fox that pretty much nobody likes, don’t have any insight, and can’t pronounce a players name if they don’t play for a large / MEGA market team.

The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters

by kd_in_kc on Dec 5, 2011 10:20 AM EST up reply actions  

I liked the old Splitt more...

They are all better than Monty though

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Tebow > Monty

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 2, 2011 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Splitt was way better

he could talk about more than just middle infielders

2011 Royals Review NCAA Bracket Challenge Winner, by process of attrition

by sfeldkamp on Dec 2, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

So Can Frank

He just sucks at it.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 5, 2011 12:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I still remember Bob Davis calling KU basketball

Every shot: “Heee…hit it!”. With his partner Max Falkenstein, who was like 92 years old and kept talking about Hank Iba and Oklahoma State in the fifties or whatever.

"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."

by Juancho on Dec 3, 2011 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

Here is a conspiracy theory for you

Ryan forced Frank out.

1. Ryan tried to leave the KC TV job for the Twins Radio job (a step down).
2. Ryan is about to sign a multi-year extension with KC.
3. Frank has a reputation as hard to deal with.

That information is somewhat classified.

by Karte on Dec 2, 2011 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I never heard that about Frank

2011 Royals Review NCAA Bracket Challenge Winner, by process of attrition

by sfeldkamp on Dec 2, 2011 1:59 PM EST up reply actions  

I have.

But never put in any stock in it, and neither would you. They are rumors that are not worth repeating.

by Dadunca on Dec 2, 2011 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I've also heard radio personalities allude to it

Basically that Frank has parlayed his iconic former player status into a sense of entitlement to a high-profile position with the team, a la George Brett. Again, complete hearsay. Can’t vouch for it whatsoever.

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I have heard from numerous people

that when Frank is in a crowd, he couldn’t be nicer but get him 1-on-1 and he is a stark raving asshole.

by trauty on Dec 2, 2011 5:23 PM EST up reply actions  

I have heard otherwise

One of my friends went to a luncheon that Frank was at. My friend went on and on that night about how nice Frank was. That Frank stay over an hour after the luncheon talking to people.

by spamiam79 on Dec 2, 2011 10:01 PM EST up reply actions  

He was in a crowd, so how does that contradict what trauty said?

Nicknames I have coined:

Jamaal Charles = 'Haley's Comet'
Shaun Smith = 'Big Nasty'
Kelly Gregg = 'Old Gregg'

by Nick Britt on Dec 2, 2011 11:48 PM EST up reply actions  

In a field in somewhere in western Missouri, Frank White is taking a baseball bat to a telestrator machine.

by Loose Seal on Dec 2, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Imagine a broadcast team of Gordon and Zaq

You know Alex, that home run by cyborghosmer was good, But mine were all better.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Dec 2, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't feel like this comment is getting its due respect.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

So, we have
I’m told the Royals fired Frank White because team thought he was too critical. To fire him is bad. To fire him for that is unconscionable.

versus

For what it’s worth, the KC Star’s story on the matter suggested nothing along these lines

Oh no, someone in the media (or who talked to the media) is lying and/or withholding material information!

by Gopherballs on Dec 2, 2011 1:09 PM EST reply actions  

…life isn’t fair.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

He is the 1%

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Gotta be kidding me

Are we shopping for a Hawk Harrelson type? I’ll listen to every game in silence if they go that route.

by LaFLamme on Dec 2, 2011 1:18 PM EST reply actions  

You mean someone who is all-in with the team like Harrelson?

Because that kind of person is very critical. Hell, Bob Davis is critical. Ever been listening to a game and know what the result of play was before hearing Bob say the words because of the let-down in his voice?

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but there's a big difference between the "Bob Davis Obviously Disappointed Voice" about the result of a play

and specific comments directed at particular players or, even worse, the team in general or a specific decision that has been made.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 2, 2011 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll give you that.

But I still haven’t heard anyone mention a time when Frank was critical of the team in general. Or players. He’s been critical of certain plays.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Colin Hanks is actually a good actor?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

He's been great in Dexter this season

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:44 PM EST up reply actions  

They've given Colin a LOT of practice...

and if you ever listen to the commentary of Madmen, the dude has a seriously inflated view of his place in the world of film.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Dec 3, 2011 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Frank's analysis wasn't bad. It was average.

Although the delivery was terrible, he was kind of forced to do full-time broadcasting.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

@ leest he cud reed gud

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

i think a distinction needs to be made...

from what i’ve read…he wasnt fired…his contract wasnt renewed…thats well within their rights. did they owe frank a plush lifetime gig that he retained regadless of his performance?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 2, 2011 1:33 PM EST reply actions  

And are they likely to end up with someone worse than Frank?

It’s not like was actually good. He was average (at best) with regard to actual baseball insights and analysis. And his broadcast voice was quiet, and mumbling. It usually sounded like he was talking quietly to himself.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

i dunno...id rather give a shot to someone who has a chance at being legitimately good...

then go with the known bad….kila v jacobs 2008 or 2009 whenever that was

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 2, 2011 1:37 PM EST up reply actions  

"It usually sounded like he was talking quietly to himself."

In all fairness, he probably was.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

The only time I liked Fransisco Blanco was when he was talking the glory days.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

I loved Frank

My Royals fanhood developed in the last decade or so, so I remember Frank only as a broadcaster. And I thought he was pretty adorable. I loved the chuckle and the way he would shrug off and subtlely poke fun at Ryan.

by kcdc1 on Dec 2, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

that would be

ironic

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 2, 2011 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

At Royals Review

Ironic is us.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 5, 2011 12:28 AM EST up reply actions  

very well put

"Statistics are facts, but they don't tell a full story." - Jon Yoon

by thehulk on Dec 3, 2011 11:17 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

Two possibilities

1) This decision came from ownership. One of the Glasses has a stick up his but about something Frank said. Frank will be publicly shunned.

2) This decision came from FSKC. In which case Frank will probably be offered some sort of role in the Royals front office again.

I guess in time we’ll be able to take a guess at which it was.

2011 Royals Review NCAA Bracket Challenge Winner, by process of attrition

by sfeldkamp on Dec 2, 2011 1:54 PM EST reply actions  

The only times...

I remember White EVER getting critical on air was when Aviles was playing 2B and he’d misplay a ball or screw up a toss to 2B and Frank would say “that’s a play a 2B has to make.” Seeing as how he’s the best 2B in KC history (probably one of the best defensive 2B ever), I’d say he can have the high-horse on 2B defense.

Other than that, I think he might’ve criticized some guys (Kila, Billy, etc.) for not swinging and being willing to take a walk. Which, if they fired him for that, I’d be shocked.

by Bart41 on Dec 2, 2011 2:09 PM EST reply actions  

Now that you mention it

I do recall him being a bit critical of Aviles’ defense. Maybe because he knows that position really well. But certainly nothing that seemed close to be critical of players in general or the org. as a whole.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 2, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

but Aviles was never a made guy in the organization and is long gone...

he seems like the perfect person to criticize, if you wanted to say, “look, we’re objective”

by Freneau on Dec 2, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Right, if anything I would have guessed that the FO would have whispered in his ear to encourage him to criticize the defense.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Rustin Dodd
Details slowly coming in on #Royals’ decision to fire Frank White. Hearing this was the Royals’ call. And tone of broadcasts played a part.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 2, 2011 2:23 PM EST reply actions  

Tone

If they mean “tone” literally, then I think it was a good decision:

tone/tōn/
Noun:
The overall quality of a vocal sound: “the broadcaster’s tone is lacking in warmth or vigor”.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, if the Royals replace Frank White with recorded clips of Barry White singing a capella, we’ll know this is what they meant.

by Loose Seal on Dec 2, 2011 2:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

STEVE STEWART NOW!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 2, 2011 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

When did Rustin Dodd get started with the Star? I vaguely recall him taking over mellinger’s ballstar blog when sam went from baseball reporter to columnist. Anyway, I haven’t read a lot of that ballstar content, but he seems like a solid writer for the star.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not overwhelmed with his writing

But anyone who’s able to succeed in spite of the name Rustin must have some serious chops.

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

he and

terez paylor need to figure out how to spell their fucking names…

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

--Albert Einstein

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 2, 2011 2:39 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

thank you

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

--Albert Einstein

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 2, 2011 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

J-U-S-T-I-N

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Terez Paylor is such an obviously fake name. I considered going by Mott ScKinney on SBNation sites, but I recognized it sounded foolish and made up. Why can’t Prez Taylor see that?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 2:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Not as foolish and made up as

NYRoyal

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 2:52 PM EST up reply actions  

my take, FWIW

passan is certainly respected and i supposed you give him the journalistic benefit of the doubt, but by whom was he told? is he reporting that this is, in fact what happened?

like many have said above, i’m having a hard time figuring out when he was ever negative…IMO splitty shot more from the hip and was more blunt than frank by a longshot.

i’m a little skeptical that this is the reason…if it were, they’d have to fire bobgasm davis, wouldn’t they? his downtrodden, disappointed tone every time something goes against the royals is a fucking buzzkill.

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

--Albert Einstein

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Dec 2, 2011 2:38 PM EST reply actions  

Just another reason...

… that teams should never hire their former great players. It will inevitably end in disaster.

“ZOMG GEORGE BRETT FOR MANAGER!”
“FRANK WHITE FOR BROADCASTER!”

Gee, what could go wrong?

by Discolando on Dec 2, 2011 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

Do George Brett and Frank White get along?

George is still pretty high in the Royals organization. If they’re friendly, I can’t imagine the Royals dumping Frank and thereby pissing off George, who is more iconic for the Royals than anyone. I can’t imagine that George would sit still and watch Frank get dumped, if they’re on good terms.

On the other hand, from what I know of George’s playing days, his closest friends circle didn’t include Frank. I don’t know if that means anything big, like genuine hostility, or if it’s just benign non-attention.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Dec 2, 2011 3:15 PM EST reply actions  

As I said higher up

Radio personalities in town have alluded to the perception that Frank has felt slighted by the fact that George is so revered within the organization, and he is not. They contend it wasn’t just Facebook fans, but Frank White himself that really felt he should have gotten the Royals manager job instead of Hillman, and that he’s been rubbed the wrong way by the Glass family for a while. Again, just hearsay. I can’t corroborate anything, and doubt the 610 or 810 radio guys could, either.

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Frank has his number retired

He’s an iconic Royal. What more does he want?

George Brett was a far far better player than Frank White. He deserves to be held in greater reverence. Frank is lucky to have a consensus hold on the #2 spot behind Brett considering that guys like Kevin Appier could make a pretty strong case for having meant more to the team.

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I've gotten the fealing that Frank doesn't get his "value"

Ive “met” him twice at the Caravan, and both times he acted like his signature was on the level of Willie Mays.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I never saw Frank White play.

But I know he’s one of the greatest players to ever put on an Royals uniform. You don’t fire him. No other organization in baseball would.

I can now say this with a straight face, and it will be accurate: Tim Tebow is a better QB than Matt Cassel.

by ProbablyYoungerThanAllOfYou on Dec 2, 2011 3:30 PM EST reply actions  

Sure you do...

But you have to have the right reason to.

You don’t fire him for being critical, you fire him for being bad at his job.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 4:27 PM EST up reply actions  

How bad could he be?

If he’s a bad minor league manager, you fire him. If he sucks at front office work, you fire him.

As I understand his role on the broadcast, his job was basically to be Frank White. Maybe with a side of “making David Glass look like he isn’t taking a bright orange piss on the Kauffman legacy”.

I’m not saying they don’t have the right to fire him. I’m not even saying he didn’t deserve to be fired. I’m just wondering what harm could he possibly have been doing on the broadcast? The Royals margin for error in regards to PR is razor thin. Having Frank around may not have been doing much to help their image, but firing him will do nothing but hurt.

In a nothing to gain and something to lose scenario, the Royals just said “give me a heaping bowl of something to lose please.”

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

In all fairness...

if you run a sports team by what the fans want… You are going to have a pretty shitty team.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 4:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Which is why i give the manager and FO examples

But dude was on commentary. No ammount of Frank Giggles is going to keep Hosmer from hitting.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 4:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno... I think Frank was bad at his job, so I don't really care what the masses think...

But if it was for negative comments I think that is a bad reason

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Unfortunately

We need the mouth breathing, Facebook posting masses. You see, we’re the Survivors and they’re the Walkers. We need them buying tickets and hot dogs and Frenchy thongs so that the Royals will have the revenue to afford the nice things you and I covet.

If having Frank around makes a few more of them happy, it’s worth it. In a vacuum , this probably isn’t a big deal. But it is another trinket for the bad PR pile. I think we all learned from Idiocracy that eventually the pile landslides and the mouth breathers freak out.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 5:14 PM EST up reply actions  

If this is what keeps them from buying tickets...

then it doesn’t really matter.

You will never convince me that fans will stop going to games because Frank was fired from the broadcast… Especially if this team starts winning at all.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 5:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Not trying to convince you of that at all

However, I do know plenty of people who won’t go to games because they hate David Glass. This will not help. It’s not the back breaking straw or the most important blunder. My point is, what do the Royals gain. If you lose something (no matter how small) and gain nothing, then why do it?

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I dunno...

I guess it depends on who they replace him with.

If its Monty then its bad move because he’s worse than Francisco.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Dec 2, 2011 5:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm a fan

and all I want are 90 fucking wins. Is that too much to ask?

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Dec 2, 2011 4:55 PM EST up reply actions  

apparently

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 2, 2011 9:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Try to keep up

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 5, 2011 12:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I think this move is likely bad PR today

and nothing by spring with most fans.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 2, 2011 5:05 PM EST up reply actions  

You're probably right

I certainly don’t think it’s trading Frenchy bad….

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

You're making a small joke but I think it's 100% true.

Trading Frenchy would bring out all sorts of cries during spring training and anytime somebody wasn’t thrown out at the plate.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 2, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Sadly, I wasn't kidding ;)

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 5:21 PM EST up reply actions  

We put our icons on a pedestal sometimes

And almost never do they live up to fan’s expectations at all times. It is completely possible that White simply isn’t a good employee.

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Is this Scott McKinney in disguise

I am sending this post and Scott’s 10,000 posts to a forensic writing expert to determine if this is Scott’s “new” secret identity.

by ks.cowboy on Dec 2, 2011 4:47 PM EST up reply actions  

busted

I almost went with NYHal McRae’s Telephone at first

"Put that in your pipe and smoke it."

by Hal McRae's Telephone on Dec 3, 2011 9:29 AM EST via iPhone app up reply actions  

My sentiments exactly

We owe him nothing. A good, not great player that is in their hall of fame and had his number retired. Isn’t that saying they respect what he did as a player? That’s all he deserves. He has no other credential that will make him good at any of the rolls that he wants. MAYBE he was wronged this time, and that would be too bad. But quite frankly, he wasn’t very good at what he does, and he no longer holds any value to the team.

by Royal Tiger on Dec 2, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

On second thought

He was great, but not MLB hall great, IMHO

by Royal Tiger on Dec 2, 2011 6:32 PM EST up reply actions  

So who are some legit possibilities for a new color man? I imagine Ryan is still going to be the play by play guy. The color guy will almost certainly be a former player or manager, probably with organizational ties.

Jeff Montgomery. Seems a likely candidate as he’s done some broadcast work already, he’s a Royals HOFer, etc.

Brett? Can’t see him wanting to do it or be very good. Would love to hear some drunk broadcasts though.

Seitzer? Already employed.

Brian McRae? I think he does some stuff with the org already, I’ve heard him on the radio in an official type capacity doing radio stuff. This would be a decent choice as I think he’s fairly well-spoken.

Hal? I don’t think he’s on that great of terms with the organization.

Appier? Suppan? They were longtime Royals, but they don’t do a lot with the org.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 3:56 PM EST reply actions  

Sweeney also recently retired...

That information is somewhat classified.

by Karte on Dec 2, 2011 4:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Oooh, good call on Sweeney. Can’t see him being too critical.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I knew there was an obvious guy from recently that I couldn’t put my finger on.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 4:02 PM EST up reply actions  

He's around the area too, I think.

I remember seeing him at some games this past year.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Dec 2, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

isn't he involved with the Mac N Seitz hitting academy?

Also he’s done some radio spots locally over the past year at least.

If they wanted to go the former player route, I’d be all for Randa. He’d be my first choice. I don’t even know who second would be.

We should trade for Vance Worley.

by JKWard on Dec 2, 2011 4:41 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

He could be as critical as he wanted,

secure in the knowledge that the Royals top brass have no idea what he’s talking about.

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

like to picture him inviting Lee Judge onto the broadcast

then beating the shit out of Mr Manly Cartoon Guy and stuffing a poptart in his blow hole.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Dec 2, 2011 5:16 PM EST up reply actions  

Randa’s a good call. Generic, inoffensive good guy who was around the team, good enough that it wouldn’t be silly to have him, but not so good that he’d be too cool for the job.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

B-Mac would probably be pretty good

I’ve met/talked with him a few times, and he definitely seems like he could do it. But really, he’d basically be like Frank with a little more polish. He definitely pulls his punches when it comes to the Royals and criticism, but I still think he throws as many as he feels are necessary.

Brett doing color commentary would be awesome. The home games he’d do after a day out on the course would be epic.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 2, 2011 4:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I really liked him & Ryan when they did radio broadcasts the weeks Denny took off.

But yeah, I can’t see them doing that because of the “critcal” commentary. Sweeney seems more likely. He does have a smooth voice and doesn’t “um” and “you know” a lot. He just drops in “Jesus” a lot, which would grate on me a bit, because although I’m religious, I really don’t feel comfortable with the whole wear-it-on-your-sleeve-and-tell-everyone-about-it style.

by Gross(est) on Dec 2, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Appier is pretty reclusive. Has a ranch up in Montana or somewhere and stays out of the spotlight. He was on a radio interview before his Royals HOF induction, and seemed like a pretty quiet guy.

I like Mike Boddicker but he’s both critical and gainfully employed elsewhere.

I believe Al Fitzmorris and Mike MacFarlane live in town and are available.

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 4:05 PM EST up reply actions  

Appier's just south of KC.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 2, 2011 4:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Frank taught us astronomy; he will teach us chemistry.

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Dec 2, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Must have been thinking of someone else w/ the ranch

Appier definitely did talk like he was happiest staying at home playing around with tractors and Bobcats and whatnot.

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 5:55 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see Fitzmorris with his history of being active in promotions.

He used to emcee events promoting the team around the area and speak at schools, etc.

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Dec 2, 2011 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Throw enough darts

And one of us is going to hit a bullseye

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Why not Greg Pryor or Pat Sheridan?

Bill Pecota is, of course, at the top of the list.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 2, 2011 4:09 PM EST up reply actions  

now I'm doing this with every name I see

Preg Gryoy or Sat Pheridan?

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Dec 2, 2011 5:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Jim Eisenreich? He still lives in KC.

I’ll let someone else make a tourette’s joke.

by OnixConcepcion on Dec 2, 2011 5:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Very funny...

one of my good comic friends, Jim Short has a great line that goes:

“AIDS? The clap? My ex-girlfriend gave me Tourette’s Syndrome…’cause now I walk around my apartment going, ’Fucking bitch! Cunthole! Goddamnit! Fuck!”

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Dec 3, 2011 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Dude, it's Shat Peridan

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 2, 2011 8:07 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Aren't McRae and Monty part owners of 810?

Seems like it could be a problem with them providing content to a different platform.

by KSinDC on Dec 2, 2011 4:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure how all of that works. The FSKC guys go on 810 all the time. I think there’s a weekly Lefebvre interview, Steve Stewart is on with Petro. But then Frank White is always on 610. No clue how those conflicts of interest are ironed out.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 4:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Heck, Bukaty hosts 810's morning show

and works for the Jayhawks on 610 all the time and for FSKC in the production stuff.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 2, 2011 5:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Also true. The Chiefs are pretty clearly 810 only, but the Royals seem to cross-polinate more.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 5:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I like Frank, but

he was a shadow of Splitt. As long as they don’t replace him with Bob Davis I guess I will be OK. Davis has got to be one of the worst baseball announcers ever. If they bring him to TV, I will have to go back to listening to the radio. maybe someone like Al Fitzmorris, although he would not be able to keep his mouth shut either.

by maddirishman on Dec 2, 2011 5:02 PM EST reply actions  

I listen to at least part of the game on the radio about 80% of the time. I watch maybe five games per year on tv. I, personally, would be thrilled with Bob Davis moving from radio to TV.

Not sure how that would work – Ryan and Frank had a clear play-by-play guy, color guy relationship. Bob and Denny kind of alternate innings.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I could see Denny doing better if the team was winning.

DENNY MATTHEWS QUIT ON THE ROYALS

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 2, 2011 5:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I like this idea

Seems like a no-lose compromise. I get the sense that Denny could really use a change.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 2, 2011 6:16 PM EST up reply actions  

"Are the bad old days of paranoid ownership returning?"

Dunno, but it’s a good thing this isn’t a Chiefs blog, Will – if so, there might be a couple of goons headed your way right now…

If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism

by loyal2sdad on Dec 2, 2011 5:21 PM EST reply actions  

It's insane over there

Dogs and cats living together mass hysteria….

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on Dec 2, 2011 6:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Boy, it sure is raining cats and dogs out there! How do ya do ma’am? Henry Swanson’s my name, and excitement’s my game!

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 10:48 PM EST up reply actions  

Serious comment

I agree with your sentiment Will – I watched every game on TV that I didn’t vend at (110 games or so), and if anything, I thought White was too EASY on the Royals, not too critical.

If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism

by loyal2sdad on Dec 2, 2011 5:22 PM EST reply actions  

As predicted, the KC Star website

is filled with the predictable claims of “this is the last straw! I’m through as a Royals fan.”

Whatever. I grew up loving the team before David Glass bought it. He has no veto power over my fanhood.

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Dec 2, 2011 5:46 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed

Being a fan is non wavering especially when the dark times are starting to get a bit brighter…

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on Dec 2, 2011 6:06 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

he has no veto power over my manhood

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 2, 2011 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Muck Him!

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 5, 2011 12:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Wtf?!

Take 2 steps forward and then shoot yourself in the foot….

Dammit- Ryan is still there… :/

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on Dec 2, 2011 6:04 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

meh

just fast forward us to opening day.

by BeauJackson on Dec 2, 2011 6:41 PM EST reply actions  

I'm curious how the team will try to spin this on Around the Horn KC.

Or if they even will.

Frank White? Who’s Frank White?

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Dec 2, 2011 6:43 PM EST reply actions  

Frank too critical?

If anything he was way too much of a yes man. Where do they think they will find an analyst worth a grain of sand that won’t be more critical than Frank? If they want someone to lick as much company bootee as Ryan and Bob Davis, they may have to pair them with a pre programmed, computerized voice.

And Will, the bad old days of a paranoid ownership have never left. We have just had some damage control by the team PR department the last couple of years, convincing you not to look at the man behind the curtain.

"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance

by KHAZAD on Dec 2, 2011 6:44 PM EST reply actions  

Lee Judge - book it

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 2, 2011 8:57 PM EST reply actions  

I just threw up a little in my mouth at the thought.

by Tito42 on Dec 2, 2011 10:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I am going for the pepcid now

"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance

by KHAZAD on Dec 3, 2011 3:12 AM EST up reply actions  

Not a big deal

The Royals are just to nice to say Frank sucked so they tried to cover it up to protect him. He was dry, boring, and gave good information at times.

Scouting the Royals
Royals Prospects

by 306008 on Dec 3, 2011 11:21 AM EST reply actions  

This

Hiring a fan favorite/legend is always going to lead to this kind of problem. It’s why the Royals and Brett have been smart to NEVER give him a job other than “Do Cool Things.”

by BlueEyes_Austin on Dec 3, 2011 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

Without reading the whole thread

1) Frank’s a lousy announcer and should be fired along with Lefevbre.
2) I don’t remember hearing Frank being particularly controversial or critical, and I listen to the Röyals broadcasts on mlb.com.
3) If the Röyals want to change announcers and go a different way, that’s their job as a business, to make personnel decisions.
4) So how did the rumor start about White being fired for being critical?
5) If they really canned Frank because he questioned Ned’s use of the hit-and-run with Butler on first and Hosmer up, then all they want is the most superficial and manipulated coverage. Which is a shame.

"All the boys think she's a guy
She's got crazy Frenchy eyes."

by Juancho on Dec 3, 2011 11:28 AM EST reply actions  

I did.

On this we can concur. I don’t often feel bad for people and didn’t grow up in the area to have the emotional tie that quite a few Royals fans have to White, but it seems like he really wanted to just be a goodwill ambassador for the team. How they decided they didn’t want any part of that is nearly impossible for me to comprehend.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 3, 2011 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

Good Will Ambassador

Not the same as an actual job. Look, i grew up watching Frank and this whole situation sucks. But he wasn’t a good announcer.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Dec 3, 2011 12:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Did you listen to the interview?

He said that in January he approached the club and said that he just wanted to be in the community in PR for the next four or five years and then retire, and they said no. I’m talking in the larger sense, not necessarily in the booth.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 3, 2011 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Actually, with as many public appearances as Royals-related people make, it certainly could be a full-time job.

There are lots of people who have the full-time job of making appearances, like every retired celebrity and politician ever, not to mention the Paris Hiltons/Kardashians of the world.

by Gross(est) on Dec 3, 2011 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

This is all a big misunderstanding

I’m sure, in their modernization efforts, the Royals are just looking for the most statistically savvy broadcaster to push them towards the future. I’m sure it’ll be someone like Rany doing the games now.

by sterlingice on Dec 3, 2011 1:13 PM EST reply actions  

Rany's big time now.

GRANTLAND!!!!!!!

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 3, 2011 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Well Rany

Did go through that road to Damascus conversion from rabid anti-Mooreite to chief cheerleader. Maybe he claims his reward now?

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 3, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

For the record,

The sarcasm font can only cover so far of the screen before it refuses to word wrap so it is not useful for longer comments

Not that this has anything to do with any other comment I made

by sterlingice on Dec 3, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm surprised

That Jesse and Al have not called for a boycott of Kansas City,,,,,yet

by R_F on Dec 3, 2011 2:47 PM EST reply actions  

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