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Around SBN: Win or Lose, Boston Celtics' New Big 3 Era A Success

The decision to re-sign Betancourt is really the quintessential Dayton Moore transaction: completely unexpected, laughable, infuriating, completely tone-deaf to the hard-core fan base – and yet, if you look at it in a certain light, it actually makes a perverse kind of sense. Depending on how willing you are to swallow the party line, you can actually convince yourself that it’s a good signing.

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This can be said of every signing any team makes:
if you look at it in a certain light, it actually makes a perverse kind of sense. Depending on how willing you are to swallow the party line, you can actually convince yourself that it’s a good signing.

It’s easier for some fans to convince themselves than others.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 3:22 PM EST reply actions  

Or anything that anybody does

“If you change your values on how you evaluate things, those things can make sense. Depending on whether you choose to believe propaganda, you can convince yourself that certain things are good things.”

by Loose Seal on Dec 28, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

but Scott is a neo-Calvinist.

Or so I have read.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:00 AM EST up reply actions  

to lazy to look this reference up

please explain

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 29, 2011 9:28 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t get it either.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

I mean, I know what neo-Calvinism is

basically

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 29, 2011 9:29 AM EST up reply actions  

No, you can't convince yourself it's a good signing

I will allow, possibly, convincing yourself it’s a inconsequential signing. But good? That takes his Moore boosterism of the last year to new, laughable, heights.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 28, 2011 3:33 PM EST reply actions  

It looks like Rany tried to convince himself that it was a good signing, but couldn't quite get himself there

Oddly he came to the conclusion that Yuni really isn’t a bad utility IFer (despite all evidence), but that he’s just not a good fit for this team. One out of two ain’t bad, Rany.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Under this standard

I’d wonder what would be a bad signing? Wily Taveras to a 2 year $15 million deal? Ryan Theriot to a 3 year $20 million deal?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 28, 2011 5:19 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that throughout 2011

Rany has done numerous somersaults to try to give the Royals front office the benefit of the doubt, and that has almost become the default position for when he analyzes a new transaction. He tried to do it here and couldn’t.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 28, 2011 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

isnt a bad util infielder is a little misleading

He said that most utility players are bad players. Under that understanding, Yuni is the prettiest pig in the pen, or at least not the ugliest.

We should trade for Vance Worley.

by JKWard on Dec 29, 2011 2:02 AM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Sort of, but Rany didn't even address the issue of whether Yuni was the best option available

he did mention Renteria and Blanco, so maybe that counts.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 1, 2012 2:05 AM EST up reply actions  

yeah...i was probably the farthest to the 'good signing' side...

and i never said anything that even resembled ‘this was a good signing’

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 28, 2011 11:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Not the best analysis of this signing that I've seen

His “all utility players are crappy” analysis was very weak. His “look, Nick Punto doesn’t hit well either” was a joke. Punto’s total value is much better than Yuni and has been for years. And, more importantly, Rany ignores the many other immediate options that are around, including those that are likely better than Yuni and signed recent recently for less than Yuni.

And Rany is optimistic that Yuni will be strictly used as a bench player, with very limited playing time, and cites how likely it is that Moose and Escobar will get almost everyday playing time. But he gives little attention to the huge question mark that is second base. It’s hard to tell exactly what he’s saying. I guess he’s saying that he thinks it’s likely that Yuni will just be a bench player, but is worried that he’ll be more than that. Given the uncertainty at second base, there’s a lot of reason to worry. Shockingly, Rany is optimistic.

And yet, with Rany’s somewhat odd all-over-the-place analysis, he ends up concluding that it was a bad signing:

So as strange as this is to say, I don’t object to the Betancourt signing in terms of his talents as a player. I object to the signing because I think he’s a poor fit with the rest of the roster, I think he’s being paid too much, which will incentivize the Royals to play him more than he should, and I think that there’s a very real chance he will have trouble adjusting to his sudden loss in playing time. Bringing back Yuni was a bad idea.

Rany clearly doesn’t understand how bad Yuni is and that there were and are better and cheaper alternatives.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 3:39 PM EST reply actions  

in fairness to rany

he hints at the “there are cheaper options than Yuni out there” argument when discussing Andres Blanco.

But overall I agree with you. Rany was trying to talk himself into not only not bashing BUT liking this signing, when there’s really no way to spin this. Bringing Yuni back is just more proof that Dayton Moore doesn’t get it.

Will might have taken his comment “the Royals will not make the playoffs under Dayton Moore” a bit too far, but at this point in the Moore regime I am definitely in the “if the Royals make the playoffs it will be despite Dayton Moore” camp.

Waiting for April.

by DC Royal on Dec 28, 2011 3:45 PM EST up reply actions  

but at this point in the Moore regime I am definitely in the "if the Royals make the playoffs it will be despite Dayton Moore" camp.

I guess what I’d say is, “if the Royals make the playoffs, it will be because prospects succeeded at a far higher rate than average, because Moore’s FA signings and/or big trades aren’t going to get the team over the top.” And, of course, if that happens, Moore and his team deserve the credit. I just think the odds are against him. He’s got to do some things well in addition to drafting and developing.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Either way, Moore deserves credit for building a farm system

but deserves criticism for building a major league team. Why can’t we have a GM that knows how to build a farm system and make trades and signings of major league players?

by Loose Seal on Dec 28, 2011 3:55 PM EST up reply actions  

Why can’t we have a GM that knows how to build a farm system and make trades and signings of major league players?

Because good GM's won't sign with a team like KC.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

once again....

how many of those are out there? how many are out there that dont have multiple WTF? moves along the lines of the yuni signing or worse?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 28, 2011 11:47 PM EST up reply actions  

But he gives little attention to the huge question mark that is second base.

Unfortunately, I suspect that Rany has accurately assessed the 2b depth chart, and concluded that Getz will be the problem there, not Yuni.

by kcemigre on Dec 29, 2011 12:06 AM EST up reply actions  

That's possible, but I really think they like Yuni more than Getz

I don’t think they’d be willing to pay Getz $2M, but they were eager to throw that money (plus incentives) at Yuni.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 29, 2011 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

well, yeah

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:43 AM EST up reply actions  

I just like that it took him 3,689 words (literally)

to go from “well, it’s not really that bad, which means it’s good” to “yup, it’s pretty bad”.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 28, 2011 3:54 PM EST reply actions  

It seems like I could feel him wrestling with himself as he wrote it. He really wanted to figure out that it was a pretty shrewed, if unpopular signing, but he just couldn’t get there.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Rany really needs to try, you know...

thinking things over as thoroughly as possible, considering the facts as viewed through his knowledge and experience, forming a coherent conclusion and THEN actually sitting down to write a post.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Dec 28, 2011 5:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it’s weird how he went from the “I’m done” post to being a quasi Dayton Moore fanboy almost overnight. Literally the only thing that changed in the intervening time period was higher external evaluations of the farm system.

Let's just trust the process.

by trusttheprocess on Dec 28, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Being banned was a turning point!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 28, 2011 5:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Great finds

And it’s not like Yuni has gotten better since then. He’s gotten worse. And the whole “well he’s a bad starter, but utility players are bad starters” is crappy analysis. That logic basically means that any player not good enough to be a MLB starter is good enough to be a MLB utility player. There are actually some players not good enough to be utility players either. And, of course, if there are better, cheaper players for a given role, then signing a worse, more expensive player is a bad idea that really isn’t defensible.

It’s amazing how much Rany has changed his opinion of Moore and the Royals front office. And what was that based on? Moore’s great signings which show that he really does look closely at statistical analysis as well as scouting? Moore’s spectacular track record?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 28, 2011 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not defending anyone here,

but fWAR would seem to differ with the assessment that Yuni has gotten worse. His worst season was the year the Royals acquired him. His 2010 campaign was better than his 2011 season, yes, but both were significantly better than his historically bad 2009. I’m assuming most of the quoted passages were from the time of the trade for Yuni.

In a tools-based sense, it is possible and probably likely that he has gotten worse, but I do not have the eyes to tell that tale.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 28, 2011 8:56 PM EST up reply actions  

At first glance, his power appears to have improved.
– he has never reached double digits in home runs.

He’s done that the last two years. However, his doubles have decreased. His SLG% the last two years (.405 and .381) are essentially in the range of his career numbers (.391).

by BrRoyal on Dec 29, 2011 8:00 AM EST up reply actions  

awesome

late entry for comment of the year.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 1, 2012 2:10 AM EST up reply actions  

His analysis of Yuni vs. Renteria is laughably lacking

He looks at their OPS from last year, their OPS from the last 3 years, and their playing time at 3B and concludes that they have posted similar stats and therefore it is just as likely that Yuni is actually a better signing than Renteria would be.

But he ignores the fact that Renteria has posted significantly better defensive numbers than Yuni. I just don’t understand why he would miss something so obvious like this.

by Loose Seal on Dec 28, 2011 4:07 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Not to mention

Renteria’s time with the Braves and his awesome post-season experience. INTANGIBLES!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 28, 2011 5:22 PM EST up reply actions  

From Age 22

Through age 30 Renteria had one season worse than Yu-Bet’s best, and his defense has been far better, to say the least. In limited duty in 2010, Renteria had better offensive numbers than Yu-Bet has posted since he was 25. Yep, they’re almost twins.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 28, 2011 9:11 PM EST up reply actions  

like Arnold and Danny DiVito

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Dec 28, 2011 9:20 PM EST up reply actions  

what is the point of bringing up what renteria did in the time period from 7 years to 15 years ago....

isnt this what we mock moore for? "oh, he was good in 2006, we should sign him’

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 28, 2011 11:51 PM EST up reply actions  

No, We Mock

Him for overpaying players who have not been good since 2005. Renteria has been at least Yu-Bet’s equal offensively and still superior defensively in every season through 2011. I’m pointing out a long track record of superior performance to anything Yu-Bet has ever done.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 29, 2011 12:01 AM EST up reply actions  

how likely is it that renteria doesnt fall off a cliff and/or get hurt at 37?

i’ll buy that there are options out there that make more sense…but im not buying renteria as one of them. im especially not using his superior defense at SS as a valid reason for his superiority to betancourt. we dont need a defensive replacement

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 12:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Sad Fact Is

That’s what he is once he PH’s for Eskie in the 9th and the game goes extras.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 29, 2011 12:11 AM EST up reply actions  

I'd Just Rather

It never happens.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 29, 2011 12:17 AM EST up reply actions  

and now we’re back to Kevin Bacon…

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:07 AM EST up reply actions  

It's A Very

Real choice, and I would have neither of them if I had my way. Navarro could hardly be worse in the field than Yu-Bet, and Aviles would have been fine off the bench. I’m just talking how bad the Yu-Bet signing was compared to any reasonable alternative.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 29, 2011 12:23 AM EST up reply actions  

i'd rather have had navarro as well...

im over aviles though…my hatred for him is as irrational as the overreaction to the yubet signing….if i had to watch him get fucking picked off one more time i’d have jumped off a bridge

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 12:25 AM EST up reply actions  

Aviles Getting Picked

Off was a sudden and strange development. I have to think it had something to do with the “we’re going to steal a lot of bases” approach Yost brought in.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Dec 29, 2011 12:36 AM EST up reply actions  

Phil

I think you’re wrong here.

Perhaps he was told to be aggressive, be, be aggressive, but him getting picked off….what, 4 times?….(omd)….was his own doing. I would think, anyway. I can’t see Yost nor Hillman giving him the “green light” to be a dumb-fuck on the basepaths.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:49 AM EST up reply actions  

so...

you’re saying that he was getting picked-off by virtue of his own dumbassed-ness? I agree…

Also: are you sure he was only on first base 31 times? That seems pretty low to me.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 3:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Pretty sure that's only last season.

Hmm lets see, never had a problem getting picked off before last season. Sees the writing on the wall about where he stands in the organization WHILE hearing his manager talk about being aggressive and giving guys the green light and he’s all of the sudden the worst baserunner ever. Maybe he just wasn’t smart enough to know the difference but it’s foolish to believe it was all on him.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 29, 2011 7:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Yes, indeed. +1

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Gulp!!!

Nope, it didn’t go down

by maddirishman on Dec 28, 2011 5:29 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

TWSS

Obviously, you are not a golfer.

by Kyled85 on Dec 29, 2011 7:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought it was a decent enough post that takes into account the downside of the whole thing

although I do think Rany mistook Will’s point in the referenced to be about Yuni and the playoffs rather than about it being a comment on Moore’s abilities.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.

by Matt Klaassen on Dec 28, 2011 6:01 PM EST reply actions  

I was surprised Rany read Will's tweet and came to that conclusion.

My biggest concern with Moore is that he’ll be incapable of supplementing the home grown talent with quality players obtained via trade and free agency. Being the GM “that thought Yuni so nice he acquired him twice” has only heightened that concern.

by Jeff Parker on Dec 28, 2011 6:42 PM EST up reply actions  

doesnt moore deserve some benefit of the doubt for his recent moves at the major league level that have worked out extremely well?

francoeur, melky, treanor, chen, etc?

it seems like he gets criticized more for the francoeur extension, when we have no idea if it will work out or not than he does for the original signing that we KNOW worked out quite well.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 28, 2011 11:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Frenchy and Melky sure.

The other two have been stopgaps that haven’t been trainwrecks but signing guys like that aren’t going to make the team better.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 29, 2011 7:47 AM EST up reply actions  

"It’s like donating $100 of your yearly earnings to a God from Greek Mythology."

Didn’t I do that when I bought home and away Francouer jerseys?

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Dec 29, 2011 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

Who is this 'Etc.' guy, you speak of?

JK. Riske was a good one (even smarter by Moore that he let him go and picked Montgomery with the compensation pick). I’m not a fan of the Francouer extention, but in light of what St Louis just paid Beltran (2/$26 M), then if Francouer can be 90% of what he was last year then it looks decent.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Dec 29, 2011 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

They did lead us to 71 wins after all!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 29, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Do those few moves outweigh the rest of his track record?

And yes, he rightfully gets criticized for the Francoeur signing (which was an unfortunate by-product of a one-year FA signing that worked well….except for what it lead to), and the Chen two-year deal. I think Moore should get credit for all of the good and bad he’s done. And with regard to MLB players, there’s been much more of the latter than the former.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 29, 2011 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

i think last offseasons success should weigh significantly more than the guillen deal that happened 4 years ago

and that last offseasons success should get him a little benefit of the doubt when it comes to his signings this offseason….and this is coming from a guy who hasnt liked the frenchy extension, yuni signing or the chen contract

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 4:20 PM EST up reply actions  

just like we cant assume 2007 performance is the likely 2012 performance for a player....

we shouldnt assume that moore’s 2007 or 2008 moves as what he is now as a GM

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 4:21 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't know that we should evaluate GM's the same way we evaluate players

Should we value the most recent year more highly because we should assume that this is closer to his true talent level because he’s learning from mistakes? I think what we’ve seen and heard of his process, and the fruits of that process (Francoeur extension, Chen two-year deal, Yuni) show that he’s not learning. He’s doing the same things over and over again. He had a couple one-year deals work out. Kudos. That doesn’t come close to outweighing his horrific overall track record. And that track record is much more than Guillen. There are many bad signings in that record. He hasn’t earned the benefit of the doubt at all, IMO.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 29, 2011 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

The one thing he seems to have learned from are the awful long-term FA signings.

He seems to be pretty gunshy in this post-Guillen era.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 29, 2011 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol WUT?!?!

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on Dec 28, 2011 6:28 PM EST via mobile reply actions  

Some douche-spigot replied to his tweet (of this article) saying, “I can’t believe you said ‘ravenous Royal fanbase’” or something to that effect.

He was a member of the “ravenous” Brewers fanbase.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:02 AM EST reply actions  

my thoughts is that it wont matter one bit

If we have yuni or not. This team seems to not have the talent to be competitive.

by kcchiefs19 on Dec 29, 2011 2:03 AM EST reply actions  

I agree, but...

…Rany is clearly full of shit here. He’s just not thinking rationally, and is instead—like the most Hosmer-blinded fans—influenced by some silly notion that the AL Central is a dartboard 5 feet away. It doesn’t make any sense. It’s the same distance away it’s always been.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:06 AM EST up reply actions  

its not the same distance it has been...we used to be shooting from across the bar....

where hitting the bullseye was basically impossible….no we’re just shooting from twice the regulation distance

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions  

I guess I see your point

I am, however, a life-long Royals fan (as I assume you are)…OMD…I just can’t bring myself to adjust that distance I guess. I’ve been Juan Gonzalez’ed one too many times. It’s irrational, I know. But…

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:41 AM EST up reply actions  

whenever I find myself typing an ellipse I just seem to type OMD. I really don’t know why.

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 2:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Ahem,

it is the initials of my handle. These ellipses-users seem to have lost all touch with what an ellipsis actually does, and forgot that a period actually serves the purpose that the two redundant keystrokes they make with each ellipsis does. I implored these jerkasses to use the ellipsis when it actually made sense to no avail.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 29, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions  

oh c'mon

It’s perfectly acceptable to use an ellipsis to indicate a pause in speech or thought. Would you prefer we use the em dash?

"You're like that guy who wrote that thing about remembering stuff!!"

- Crow T. Robot

by Crooow on Dec 29, 2011 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

If you're willing to consider

…the Yamaico Navarro trade and the Yuni signing as connected (which I think you have to—if Navarro is on the bench, there’s no need to sign Yuni), then it is a matter of dismissing talent as well as of misunderstanding monetary value. Even Rany admits that Moore practically gave Navarro away, and for what? Because the guy is supposedly a jerk?

Plus, misunderstanding monetary value is still a CRIPPLING affliction for a GM to have. Just ask former GMs like Dave Littlefield or Bill Bavasi. The list of awful players Moore has overpaid is pretty long—Guillen, Gload, Bloomquist, Yuni (x2), Farnsworth, Cruz, Kendall just off the top of my head.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 29, 2011 10:14 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Can't find a valid critique of Rany's article?

Then you’re not looking. Was it not a valid criticism of his work that he lamely assumed that all utility players are crappy, therefore they are all pretty much equal and signing any of them makes sense? Was it not a valid criticism that he failed to recognize that there are better, cheaper alternatives out there? Was it not a valid criticism that when comparing players, he compared hitting but not defense? Was it not a valid criticism to point out that he just assumed that Getz would take over for Gia as the full-time 2B if Gia is injured, benched or demoted?

I agreed with his conclusion, but I felt like he got there in an odd way and that he missed a lot and quite frankly used some poor analysis.

Nothing valid there? Just being pissy? Did you actually read the serious critiques of his article, or were you just being pissy?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 29, 2011 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Robert Ford would not accept that Cesar Izturis was a better option.

And then used the fact that he was signed to a minor-league deal as one of the reasons why he shouldn’t have been considered.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 29, 2011 7:38 PM EST up reply actions  

doesnt that prove to some extent that he's looked at as a lesser player than betancourt throughout baseball?

or do you think that if the royals hadnt signed yuni that he’d have gotten nothing but a minor league deal?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 8:52 PM EST up reply actions  

"I don’t think this is quite apples and apples." Yes,...

it’s more like comparing an apple with one of the greatest fielding SS’s ever.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Dec 29, 2011 10:57 AM EST up reply actions  

"There is no 'if', there is only 'is'"....

wait, that’s ‘there is no try, there is only do’, right, Darth? or was that Yoda? Whatever, you get my drift. Anyway, I’m not sure Yuni is THE apple, but as a temptation for Moore, maybe he is. I don’t want to go too far with this parallel, though, because I think somewhere down the road Glass gets to play the role of God. Again.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Dec 29, 2011 11:25 AM EST up reply actions  

If Glass is God

then I have no idea why he favored Abel’s offering. Cain’s cheapskate offering of crops seems to be much more apropos to Glass’s character.

But I digress.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 29, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure they can play it.

Doesn’t mean that player will be decent or better than other options. Because Omar Vizquel can do it, sure as hell doesn’t mean Yuni can do it.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 29, 2011 1:56 PM EST up reply actions  

The problem with your hypothesis

is that Yuni is a shortstop the same way that Mike Jacobs is a first baseman.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 29, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions  

Is there any reason at all to think he will be?

Other than that he fraudulently had a “6” by his name on the batting order?

Moose was a crap SS himself as well remember.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Dec 29, 2011 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

im not arguing that he is or ever has been a good shortstop...

but gia and moose are neither good defensively either…at significantly easier positions…yuni will be an upgrade over them without question

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 3:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Without question?

There are plenty of questions about whether he’ll be an upgrade over Moustakas defensively. Leading with Yuni never actually playing third.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 29, 2011 4:01 PM EST up reply actions  

without question?

That’s ridiculous. Mike Aviles is/was a better defensive SS than Yuni (by a mile), yet how did he do at 2B or 3B? He was shitty at both positions, comically so at times. If a guy who is fighting just to stay out of AAA can’t make the transition, how is there “no question” that a guy who is fat, has a known questionable work ethic, has already made millions, and hasn’t played either position in many years just going to be an improvement over guys who have played the position for many years now?

Yuni may be an upgrade at 2B defensively, but it’s far from certain. The possibility of Yuni’s ultra-shitty range hurting him at 2B is significant.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Dec 29, 2011 8:15 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

i think that mike was a better defender at 2b than gia is/will be

yuni being better than moose is less of a certainty if moose can get his throwing under control

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 8:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Even if Aviles was better at 2B, wouldn't there still be some question as to whether you could say the same about Yuni?

Given that Aviles was miles better than Yuni at SS?

I’m not saying Yuni will surely be worse than Gia at 2B, but to say it’s a certainty that he’ll be better just isn’t realistic. There is a definite chance that Yuni would be just as much of a turd at 2B and 3B as he was at SS. He could also be better.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Dec 29, 2011 9:13 PM EST up reply actions  

There is no evidence to suggest that he will be

His range is terrible, his glovework is terrible (insert obligatory plus hands reference), and he can’t be bothered to improve.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 29, 2011 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Did Michael Young transition into being a third baseman with ease?

I’d hardly say that. In fact, he was pretty fucking brutal at the hot corner. When looking at the complete package, I would not be shocked to find Moustakas being a better fit defensively at third than Yuni. I don’t know that Yuni’s got more range to his left than Moustakas, and Moose definitely has him in the arm department.

Once you factor in the point that only white players can be gritty Moose clearly has him beat.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Dec 29, 2011 7:46 PM EST up reply actions  

I like how you determine the consensus around here.

Seems to me you’re normally on the opposite side of consensus.

by hawkinscm87 on Dec 29, 2011 6:13 PM EST up reply actions  

have you seen anyone who is not a royals fan who has lived through one betancourt era....

that thinks he’ll have a problem. no serious baseball analysis that ive read from non royals fans hates this move nearly as much as everyone here does. when that happens, it makes me think there’s more emotional analysis going on rather than just straight analysis that this place is known for.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Dec 29, 2011 8:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Are you serious?

The move was hammered everywhere except for the KC Star.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Dec 30, 2011 7:37 AM EST up reply actions  

no serious baseball analysis that ive read from non royals fans hates this move nearly as much as everyone here does. when that happens, it makes me think there’s more emotional analysis going on rather than just straight analysis that this place is known for.

Have you read what people have actually written? A great many of us have said that the big problem with this move is that it is another piece of evidence that Moore doesn’t get it. He and his team are still awful at evaluating and placing the proper dollar value on Major League players. The name of the utility IFer isn’t a big deal, even if he’s awful. But another piece of evidence that the GM is incompetent is a big deal.

And I haven’t read many “serious baseball analysts” give significant attention to the Royals second base situation and how Yuni has a real shot of becoming either the full-time 2B at some point, or part of a share at that position. Regardless, assuming that he’s only going to be a very infrequently used UI isn’t solid analysis. It’s either not thinking about the issue in depth, or it is wishful thinking.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Dec 30, 2011 9:45 AM EST up reply actions  

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