Royals sign 3B Pedro Feliz to minor league deal
Not a bad flyer. Is he still great defensively?
over 1 year ago
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Quick look over his stats
He is about as old as I am, not a good sign.
Can’t get on base
Can hit for power.
Can play defense.
Was a consistent 1.5 WAR player until last season when he dropped off the planet
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
-2.1 fWAR last year...
…lowest in the majors.
That’s a pretty impressive number. Most guys posting a .234 wOBA don’t get 429 plate appearances. So, I have to assume that at least his reputation as a great defender remains intact.
TWSS
The prophecy has been fulfilled.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Feb 3, 2011 1:12 PM EST up reply actions
It is actually
Impressive how bad he was last year. It takes effort to suck that much at the plate.
Can’t hurt, old pro to man the hot corner at Omaha when MOOSE is elevated to the promised land.
800k if he makes the mlb team.....
there’s no harm in that. If he somehow returns to his form defensively, he’s a good guy to have around for the first half of the season.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 12:53 PM EST up reply actions
i think its 800k + 200k in possible incentives all if he makes the team
i could be wrong though…fucking twitter
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 12:58 PM EST up reply actions
ok....i was right...from MLBTR
“The Royals signed Pedro Feliz to a minor league deal that includes an invitation to Spring Training, the team announced. Enrique Rojas of ESPNDeportes.com reports (on Twitter) that Feliz will earn $800K if he makes the team and will have the chance to earn $200K more in incentives.”
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 12:59 PM EST up reply actions
It's not a guaranteed contract
No money down the drain yet. Perhaps not ever. And if he’s a defensive replacement in the majors at 3B, who cares?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:17 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I can't say I really dislike it, since it is a minor league move.
Nothing lost as long as they never call him up.
And really not much lost unless he becomes a regular player in the majors for KC. If he’s a defensive replacement/mentor for Moose at 3B, while Aviles is the regular 2B, I don’t have any problem with this.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions
And really not much lost unless he becomes a regular player in the majors for KC.
Is there any doubt this will happen?
Yes, there really is
He gave major league contracts to Betemit and Aviles. Now he gives a minor league deal to Feliz coming off his worst season ever. Now, under the assumption that Moore will make every worst decision possible, sure it can happen. But your “is there any doubt” comment just sounds like “I’m angry at that stupid Dayton Moore” sour grapes.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:27 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed
Despite Dayton’s awful history in this regard (which is I’m sure what Will is relying upon), I can’t see him handing Feliz any significant MLB time unless 2 of the 3 (Aviles, Betemit, Getz) just really suck or get injured. AND that only happens if Moustakas struggles in AAA during the first half. A possible scenario, but not very likely, IMO.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
I wouldn't say its sour grapes
its just the way things are around here, which there really is no denying
I just think it is a bit of an exaggeration to say that every poor player signed to a minor league deal is definitely going to not only make it to the majors, but become a starter, regardless of whoever else is on the roster, or the existence of any elite MLB-ready prospects. Worst-decisions-possible are always a real possibility for Moore, but he doesn’t make all of them.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:44 PM EST up reply actions
well just look at the circumstances of this particular deal as well
its not like he just signed a 1B or a closer
I'm not sure what you mean
If you’re saying he plays a position where the team/organization is thin, I don’t agree. With Aviles, Betemit and Moustakas, I don’t see much room for Feliz to become a starter in KC. I doubt it will happen barring injuries.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 3:08 PM EST up reply actions
I just don't see a need for depth at 3B.
Betemit can play everyday. Aviles can play sometimes. In a jam, Gordon could make a return. And it’s Moose’s job to lose.
I don't think they believe in Betimet's defense at 3B
I don’t think they want to rush Moose
And I don’t think they want to move Gordon back to 3B. They want him to concentrate on the OF.
Feliz is just insurance in case Aviles’ arm is not up to playing 3B IMO.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Betimit's hands are made of iron and granite
Ironite? He should spend as little time in the field as possible.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Feb 3, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
And I want to particularly emphasize the fact that Betemit shouldn’t be playing any position in the field. He’s horrendous, at least at any and all of the positions he’s played in the majors. In addition to this killing his overall value as a player, he’d also be screwing with some young pitchers who I don’t want to be afraid of giving up a ground ball to their right.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 3:09 PM EST up reply actions
Could be Getz insurance too
If Moose isn’t ready by June or July, Getz can’t hit, then you’re stuck with Betemit at 3b something they are obviously not interested in.
Checkout Royals minor league notes at www.14for77.blogspot.com
Perhaps I would be more receptive to these depth arguments
if I’d ever seen anyone bring that up before today.
Have you seen Betemit attempt to field a baseball?
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 5:53 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah. He succeeds sometimes.
But he doesn’t need to be playing there everyday anyway. Aviles is good to go.
You mean
like this?
http://www.royalsreview.com/2010/9/16/1693586/whither-betemits-days-of-positive
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Feb 3, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
talking about the depth?
people didnt mind the horam signing, the chen signing, etc….some work out…some dont
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
horam 1
horam 2 was clearly stupid
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 8:37 PM EST up reply actions
Whatever
If you thought I was being smug, it’s only because I’m trying to keep up with you (and you were replying to a post about Betemit’s D so it wasn’t entirely clear what you refering to by “that”).
You are taking this extremely minor deal WAY too seriously. Feliz is insurance – nothing more. Actually, it’s even better since the Royals will only pay for it if they need it (if he makes the team – probably due to an injury to someone else). At this point, the only thing that is certain is that he will get playing time in spring training.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Feb 4, 2011 11:40 AM EST up reply actions
It has been discussed on this site many times. And anyone who has seen him play in the field or seen his stats knows this. I didn’t think it was in any way a controversial statement. It is pretty much universally recognized, but on this site and everywhere else.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 6:17 PM EST up reply actions
You misinterpreted my comment.
When I said I would be more receptive people had brought it up before, I wasn’t speaking to Betemit’s defense. I was talking about a need for depth at 3B. I haven’t seen anybody discuss a need at 3B before today.
I don't think it was a big need
But there’s no downside to increasing minor league depth. He only gets the $800K if he’s in KC. So they have him in Omaha if needed. I don’t see the problem here.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 7:02 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I still don't like it.
I still think it’s throwing money away. Even if he does play, it’s going to piss me off because he sucks so bad.
Agree to disagree.
its throwing away a plane ticket to and from arizona
if something happens to a couple of the guys…feliz is there to take ABs for the first three months. Paying feliz 800k if something goes wrong, is a far better option than having moose at 3b on opening day and costing us a year of control.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
And I think you are overrating someone we already have on the team
Betemit isn’t much better than Feliz. Betemit never before in his career hit like he did in 2010. He’ll never hit like that again. And he’s always been awful defensively. His total value is little better than replacement level. Feliz is as horrible offensively as Betemit is defensively. And Feliz is a pretty good defender. Overall, it might be nearly a wash.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 7:35 PM EST up reply actions
Again, I disagree.
Betemit has never hit like he did in 2010, but I recall him hitting much better than Feliz has in recent years. And he wasn’t getting consistent at-bats most of the time. Betemit could be a statue and still edge out Feliz based on his bat alone. Don’t bring out the numbers or anything. It won’t matter. I think Feliz is worthless and a waste of time. $800k is a lot of money for somebody not worth anything.
Gotta love an argument that includes..
..and don’t try to bring up numbers or any kind of facts which show I’m wrong, there ain’t nothing can change my mind!!!
Priceless.
Killing time until time kills me
I have nothing against facts.
But I am not going to look at Feliz’s numbers, and change my mind if they end up being similar to Betemit’s over his career. The point is, Betemit has been a lot better a lot more recently, and neither of them are getting any younger.
Don’t bring out the numbers or anything. It won’t matter
Enough said.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 9:24 PM EST up reply actions
sorry...i dont speak dumb
you have no point when you say ‘stats dont matter’ and make terrible generalizations with nothing to back them up
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 4, 2011 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
I didn't say stats don't matter.
I look at stats as well. But I was too lazy to look up Pedro Feliza’s stats, and my inclination was that they were worse than Betemit’s no matter how far you go back, and that if that wasn’t the case, then I would argue that Betemit hasn’t had consistent at-bats while Feliz has. So I would still prefer Betemit because consistent at-bats have seemed to work pretty well., while Feliz has had no business in a batter’s box for a long time.
What could be wrong with Aviles' arm?
This year will be his second year after surgery. His arm strength was never a problem before.
Aviles must prove everything to this organization three or four times
Til they believe it
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Feb 3, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Seems Like A Waste
With Aviles ready to go
at 3rd, Betimit on the team, and Moose coming during the year, it seems like a waste, especially at $800k with a $200k incentive.
I don't fight extra players.
by paleblueeyes on Feb 3, 2011 12:43 PM EST via mobile reply actions
A waste of money
If the dollars in the KC Star piece are accurate, that’s a waste of $800,000. Or what paleblueeyes said just before I posted this.
I guess I don't really have a problem with adding depth
If they feel say Aviles can’t handle 3B every day and should be at 2B instead. $800k seems to be pretty standard for the vet minimum. I doubt this is money coming out of the amateur signing fund, so I don’t really have a problem with this. Most likely he’ll suck, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he was still pretty good defensively. Its also a nice assurance that they’re not going to do anything stupid like rush Moose if he has a great spring.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Does Getz have an option year left?
Perhaps they’re preparing for a contingency plan where Getz goes to Omaha to start the year, with Aviles at 2B, Betemit at 3B, and Feliz as a defensive replacement. Having Getz play every day in Omaha would be a better scenario than him splitting time with Aviles and Betemit on the MLB roster.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 1:45 PM EST up reply actions
I think Johnny Giavotella needs the reps in Omaha.
If Getz can’t do it now, they should cut him loose.
Do you really think it's possible that Getz isn't the opening day second baseman?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
People ask me what I do in winter when there’s no baseball...Rock Chalk Talk
If he blows during spring training (and especially if he has an option year)
then I can see them putting him in Omaha to start. I don’t think Dayton is particularly fond of Aviles, but I do think he’d concede that Aviles is likely to perform better than Getz at 2B, based on recent evidence. I think they’ll probably end up with Aviles and Getz on the opening day roster, with the two of them splitting 2B (with Aviles as an occasional starting 3B and defensive replacement at 3B for Betemit).
I also think that Dayton will want to “showcase” (or “expose”, as the case may end up being) Betemit at 3B to start the season. A DH platoon with Kila isn’t going to do Kila or the Royals any good. So hanging on to Betemit would not be beneficial, and the only way you move him for something else is by showing a team that he can actually play a defensive position (unless there is a rash of early-season injuries to a bunch of DH’s around the AL). The best case scenario for the Royals is to have Betemit play a passable 3B for April and May, hope Moose lights up AAA, and find a willing trade partner for Betemit before Moose is called up in June.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 7:15 PM EST up reply actions
What's wrong with having depth in the minors?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:18 PM EST up reply actions
So, no veterans for minor league depth?
And that Herges minor league deal really hurt us, didn’t it?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
Lose the 'tude.
And no, minor league deals don’t really “hurt” us. But c’mon, it’s just stupid. What would we possibly want with a 36 year old 3B who can’t hit and used to be a great defender, but is probably average now.
It's nice to have depth and options in case some guys go down
And yeah you’d love for that depth to be high quality players, but that just isn’t realistic. Were there better options out there for a minor league deal 3B? Maybe, but none I can think of. Sure, he can’t hit, but I don’t think he’s being considered as a starter. And I don’t think it is likely that he’s suddenly just an average defender. His defensive numbers were poor last year, but every year before that, his defensive numbers ranged from very good to spectacular. I doubt he lost all defensive abilities all of the sudden.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 6:09 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not terribly upset over offering a guy coming off a bad season a minor league deal, but I also wouldn’t be surprised if a 36 year old infielder actually has lost his defensive value. I hope we don’t actually have to find out.
I also I don’t particularly want to find out how good my homeowner’s insurance is. That’s just the nature of insurance…
15 runs is a huge drop in one year....
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 8:53 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly
He’s an insurance policy, and has no real effect on the ML team other than providing GMDM with some more options. Sure he may cost a bit of money, but not enough to really worry about.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 3, 2011 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
This is fine as long as he actually has to compete and perform well in order to make the roster...
…if DM is just going to hand him a spot based on nothing more than reputation, than it’s bad. If he has to earn his spot, and does, then I got no problem with it.
Killing time until time kills me
Looks like a decent minor league deal to me
He’s still probably pretty good defensively. He’s there for depth. Not a penny of his contract is guaranteed.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
And if he stays in Omaha
He can foot the bill at Runza for all the youngsters using his senior discount.
And help Moose teach trigonometry to the kids there.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:20 PM EST up reply actions
Moose can leadership Feliz how to hit
and Feliz can veteran Moose how to play 3B defense.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 3, 2011 3:13 PM EST up reply actions
I Wouldn't Doubt
There is some truth to the second half of that.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 3, 2011 3:29 PM EST up reply actions
Leadership as a verb....I like it....
ex: Did you see Kendall “leadership” that single into left field?
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Feb 3, 2011 11:00 PM EST up reply actions
I'm afraid the answer to that question would be "no"
Did you see Kendall “leadership” that throw into the dirt of the mound?
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
It could make it easier to trade a player when another team needs to replace an injured 3B to start the season
Sell high on Betemit, buy low on Felix
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
Blame DF for this one:
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Feb 3, 2011 1:50 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Dayton is simply acting out of spite for Klaassen now
This could get ugly…er.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 2:00 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
he cant ban people from the stadium anymore....that never ends well...
i guess he figures he can piss matt off enough to get him to quit the royals….
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 2:01 PM EST up reply actions
not a fan
is there any doubt he’ll get at least 300 awful PAs?
any?
lets just ritualistically execute Maier and Aviles and move on
you mean like brian anderson last year?
this is a very similar signing to that…only not on a major league deal.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 2:10 PM EST up reply actions
Great!
The Royals could always use another former MLB position player trying to reinvent himself as a pitcher in the minors. And Pedro is already 36. A nonsensical position change and built-in veteran leadership! Double bonus!!
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 2:16 PM EST up reply actions
a signing at a position of relative depth to create more depth is what i was referring to....
a minor league deal is almost never a bad deal. We’ve been clamoring for moves like this for years. Moves with some potential reward and absolutely zero risk are the veteran moves dayton should be making….Horam and Chen worked out. Ponson and other have not worked out.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 2:22 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
I know
And I don’t really have a problem with the signing. It’s just really funny that Dayton seems to be working his way right down Klaassen’s 2008-2010 wOBA list.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 2:23 PM EST up reply actions
To be fair, people have been predicting Moore would get rid of Aviles for years.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:12 PM EST up reply actions
BTW, this could be one of those deals where the Royals have to release him if he's not on the 25-man roster by a given date
You may know me as NYRoyal.
I could see this
I’m pretty sure this happens frequently across the MLB. I seem to remember a couple of times the Royals have done a Spring Training “invite and release” over the last few years. I can’t remember the names. Didn’t we sign a 3rd baseman as insurance the year Gordon made the club out of ST?
I think the worst case is that one of Getz/Aviles/Betemit gets hurt in ST, and Feliz takes the opening. I don’t see Feliz actually accepting a minor league assignment.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Feb 3, 2011 2:37 PM EST up reply actions
That would worry me
I can see Dayton DFAing a useful player hoping him to sneak him through waivers in an attempt to keep Feliz happy.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Well, it really isn’t about keeping Feliz happy. Moore will either want him on the 25-man roster or not. If he does want him there, then someone has to go (either optioned to the minors or DFA’d). I just don’t see that happening, unless Aviles or Betemit is on the DL.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
Meh
I think if DM was really worried about that – he would have signed Feliz to a guaranteed Major League contract.
Feliz will get playing time in Spring Training, but my opionion is that he is just injury insurance – mainly for Getz and Aviles who have both missed significant time in the recent past due to injuries.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Feb 3, 2011 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
I'm sure this is the case
If he doesn’t make the roster out of spring training, there isn’t much room in the ORGANIZATION to play third base (no way he plays below AAA). And his ability to play 3rd well is what ties up all his value.
by 9il on Feb 3, 2011 4:07 PM EST up reply actions
Who really cares
I mean, who is it really hurting? If they get through ST and he sucks, I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s let go. He won’t want to sit on the bench and watch Moose start every game, so I’m not sure it really hurts anything.
They shouldn’t sign a bunch of these types of guys, but I can’t really get upset about it until he’s promoted and played everyday for no reason.
"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."
Contributor at Kings of Kauffman
He's blocking Marc Maddox!!!
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Poor Kurt Mertins
He’s definitely shut out now.
(I like those guys, but you get my point)
"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."
Contributor at Kings of Kauffman
by MinnesotaRoyal on Feb 3, 2011 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Here is how it has to happen..
I only assume this is the telephone conversation between DM and agents for the players.
Ring
Dayton: “Dayton Moore”
Agent: “Dayton, hi there. Let’s not mess around. We’d love to play in KC.”
Dayton: “Sounds good, but your client can’t walk. Can’t get on base”
Agent: “I know…he knows.”
Dayton: “Can’t hit..”
Agent: “True..”
Dayton: “No value to us at all. Give me one reason I should sign him?”
Agent: “uhm….he loves Jesus”
Dayton: “Sold”
Just because 4 of the worst players in baseball say daily prayers they can be better, Dayton…does not make them men of God. Stop doing this!
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Feb 3, 2011 2:41 PM EST reply actions
Take it easy, Francis.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 3:11 PM EST up reply actions
i thought it was funny. i mean..
I wasn’t laughing out loud…but i think the author was kind of comical.
see, the joke is, Dayton is religious..so it seems like he tries to go after religious players, good of bad..bad seeming to be the rule..
oh forget it. if i have to explain then its not funny. you are right. this guy who posted it is a moron.
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Feb 3, 2011 7:19 PM EST up reply actions
End the KennyPowers Experiment!
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Feb 3, 2011 7:49 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
It's just not funny.
If anybody really thinks he goes after players because they’re religious, then they’re idiots. You know how many baseball players are religious? NEARLY ALL OF THEM.
Well
Seeing as most major leaguers are either from warmer southern states, are African-American, or are Hispanic, I’m thinking it is true. God, I love stereotypes. They are actually really useful.
All African Americans are religious? All people from warm states believe in God??
What kind of ridiculous crap is that!?!?
Killing time until time kills me
It's stereotyping.
Obviously, it’s not based on facts. But everybody knows black people are typically more religious and people from southern states are typically more religious.
Recognize that these are stereotypes I’m basing it on. If you have some better ones, you can let me know because I’m not about to break out the Census information.
The fact that people from the south are 'typically" more religious
doesn’t even come REMOTELY close to meaning that nearly all major league baseball players are religious. Just an unbelievable ignorant statement.
Killing time until time kills me
Fine, so your statement isn't entirely ignorant
…just almost entirely ignorant.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Feb 4, 2011 10:45 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
god damn...you're spewing alot of complete bullshit tonight
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 8:46 PM EST up reply actions
Only if you take what I say out of context.
I pointed out numerous times I was working with stereotypes. I was simply making a point that a lot of major leaguers are religious. I figured everybody knew that. In support of that, I just wanted to bring up the fact that the 3 major groups of people that play in the major leagues are from groups that are more highly religious. And in general, we all know that athletes are more often religious. Hence, all the pointing up to God when somebody does something well.
You guys are only getting all pissy because I used stereotypes. Get over it. What I said is right. Nearly all major leaguers are religious. It’s general knowledge.
The best part is I’m not even religious. But I’m going to defend Dayton’s adherence to religion, and I’m not going to let you people get away with bashing Christianity just because you don’t agree with it.
Get off my back. You’re all acting like complete douches. And you’re being ignorant for not accepting the fact that stereotypes are usually correct.
stereotypes generally are based in fact....
but you just made up a stereotype
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 4, 2011 2:30 AM EST up reply actions
No they aren't based in fact.
I think I’m starting to see why I’m having so much trouble getting through to you guys.
Some basic assumptions that I’m working with that are based in common sense are not shared. The nature of stereotypes is that they are not based on facts. Jesus, I feel like you guys are just fucking with me at this point.
Damn, did you get offended by something again?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 9:26 PM EST up reply actions
I’m not about to break out the Census information.
Because again, don’t bring out the numbers or anything. It won’t matter.
by Tito42 on Feb 3, 2011 10:39 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
At least he’s up front about his rejection of facts.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 11:12 PM EST up reply actions
You act like a child most of the time.
And you apparently disregard everything I actually say. Listen dude. You’re a lawyer right? Something I’m being taught all the time is that it’s important to read every word and give effect to every word, rather than making assumptions or being lax with interpretation. My point? You are rejecting reality and substituting your own. (Although, it’s a close knit group here on RR).
By the way… I don’t think I ever did anything to you guys. It’s one thing to challenge someone or disagree with them, but you guys seem especially fond of battling each other for the most disparaging remarks.
I don't hate you
And I actually agree with your first comment in this line, in that the jokes about Moore’s Christianity are stupid and unnecessary. I personally don’t care to discuss religion or politics on this site period, I’m here for baseball.
You just lost me when you brought stereotypes into the equation, saying they are generally true, it’s “general knowledge,” but don’t look anything up like Census information to see if I’m really right.
You have to know that with the amount of stat heads, attorneys, and accountants on this site, you’re going to get bashed for that. It’s nothing personal.
i have it on good authority
that George Bush hates black people.
Kanye said so.
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Feb 3, 2011 10:05 PM EST up reply actions
I can’t speak about African Americans, but I can say that the Global South is the stronghold of Christianity. There are a lot of Hispanics in the Global South. As far as stereotypes go, ‘hispanics are religious’ is a very good one.
It's not to say that there is SOMETHING to some of these stereotypes....
…but to generalize them towards all major league baseball players. Nothing short of ignorance.
Killing time until time kills me
it depends on the context
I wouldn’t make the blanket statement that making such stereotypes is “nothing short of ignorance.” Such a stereotype may just fit your own description!
I’m mostly kidding, but seriously, sometimes we have to act and think generally and stereotypes are all we have to go on. I know your point, but I think you are pushing it too hard, just as whatever his name idiot up above me was being ridiculous about the stereotypes.
I'm confused about what you (the hopper) are trying to say.
It appears to me that you are disagreeing with me when I say that saying “nearly all major league baseball players are religious” is an ignorant thing to say…
..but I’m not entirely sure.
Killing time until time kills me
Again...
I never said all major leaguers were religious. I just said nearly all. And by nearly all, I mean almost all of them because I figure the biggest classes of players are only going to have a few non-Christians here and there. Those would be your small minority of players who are either a different religion (I’m guessing Jewish, if anything) or atheists/agnostics. We’ve talked before about how athletes are not typically smart people. Of course, that has no correlation with religion normally. Some of the smartest people I know are very religious. But generally, atheists and such tend to have more education (which doesn’t mean they know anything either), and there aren’t a lot of players in the Bigs with educations that lend themselves to philosophical thought, liberal arts, etc. They are raised Christian, and they don’t have any reason to lose faith because, after all, they’ve been successful their whole lives.
I know you're anti-data
(who needs numbers when your gut instincts are so good), but …
about 10% of hispanics are religiously unaffiliated compared to 18% of the country as a whole.
The most religious states are limited to the retrograde states of the old Confederacy. Arkansas, Mississippi, Alabama are highly religious, but in Florida, California, and Arizona, religion is less important than in the country as a whole
Having trouble getting a link to the pages, but you can get there from here.
people in their 20s are way, way less religious than the population at large
"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"
Dropped one of the facts in the previous post
About 80% of African-Americans say religion is very important compared to about 70% of Americans in general
"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"
So, the only remaining question...
…is what percentage of MLB players are “religious”?
The actual substance of this argument arose from an assertion that “NEARLY ALL” of them are. Heck, is 70% “nearly all”? Because if so, nearly all Americans are “religious.”
Yeah, I'm not sure these data help his cause
The differences aren’t as stark as I think he believes them to be, and he’s forgetting that while many of these players come from groups that are more religious than general, all of them come from a group (the young) that is less religious in general.
"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"
I'll drop a stereotype
White jocks are generally conformists who are happy with the established order, since it has placed them in a high-status position. Also, discipline and self-sacrifice (that is, “grit”) is usually a strong value for them.
These are the kind of people who are often conservative Christians. They like order and discipline.
Baseball’s lost most black fans and players, and they’re more Christian than whites, anyway, on average. Hispanic and Asian players tend to be pretty happy with their lot; many of the Hispanics are Catholics, anyway. Nobody’s going to buck the system.
So when Sweeney leads a team prayer, most of the players are actually Christian and believe in it. The rest go along rather than protest and make themselves obnoxious (see: Ball Four, Jim Bouton).
"Crimes don't pay no one but the lawyers." --Last words of executed murderer Ernest Gaither Jr., 1947
i dont find it funny....but its not worth getting worked up over or even posting about it....
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 7:22 PM EST up reply actions
I did think it was kind of funny
but can recognize that it’s a joke, and your reaction to said joke is absurd. He wasn’t going off on organized religion or spewing vitriol about how Christians are this or that.
It might just be time to take a step back and breathe.
And I noticed that in your stereotyping you neglected to mention the perhaps more logical rationale for a high percentage of religious ballplayers: most have not pursued higher education and there actually does tend to be a correlation between those who have pursued higher education and a lack of religiosity.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Feb 3, 2011 11:38 PM EST up reply actions
while this is true to a certain degree
I’m pretty confident geographic location is more strongly correlated toward religion than higher education.
While I understand that Catholicism dominates Latin American culture and the South is known as the Bible Belt, education is also generally poorer in both of those places as well—the states with the poorest public education/test scores are typically the southern states. There really have been multiple studies linking the negative correlation between level of education attained and religious belief.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Feb 3, 2011 11:55 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Absolutely ridiculous!!
More far left-wing ignorance. Just what we need. Between this and the far right-wing ignorance of “only Evangelical nutjobs are real Christians”, I want to puke.
I started out with nothing and I still have most of it.
-- Source Unknown
by royaldaddy on Feb 4, 2011 1:09 AM EST via mobile up reply actions
???
How can you be offended by a simple factual statements that there are various correlations between religious belief, level of education and geography? I don’t read any judgment into any of that. You’re imagining some offense.
Thank you. The studies exist. That is all I’m saying.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Feb 6, 2011 10:38 PM EST up reply actions
You're wrong and right.
There is a correlation between those who have pursued higher education and lack of religiosity, but that’s not the more logical rationale. Many players went to college. The more logical one is my own. Hispanic people, black people (meaning American black people), and people from the bible belt. This is easy stuff.
Very few are college graduates
I can’t remember where I saw the stat, but something like fewer than 5% of Major League players have a degree. Apologies for the laziness in pursuing this information for re-posting.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Feb 6, 2011 10:40 PM EST up reply actions
yay!
good to know when Chase Utley and Ryan Howard are bearing down on 40!
by KennyPowers_from_Scout on Feb 3, 2011 7:20 PM EST up reply actions
Maybe Pedro's agent messed with his wikipedia page to make it look like he played for the Braves
batter nine you sucky
by marbotty on Feb 3, 2011 3:05 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
Best game ever featuring Pedro Feliz
Alternate Title: When The Emergency Catcher Actually Had To Catch.
Also featuring Randy Winn at 3rd, comprising his entire experience in the infield in a 13-year career. And yes, he got a play.
Sounds like a can't-miss game
"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."
Contributor at Kings of Kauffman
by MinnesotaRoyal on Feb 3, 2011 3:17 PM EST up reply actions
My immediate reaction was to
comment that if he was signed to compete for catcher I could get on board with this signing, but even Jason Kendall hits better than this guy!
Greinke and the... shit, there goes that...
by SittinByTheFoulPole on Feb 3, 2011 3:22 PM EST up reply actions
and Jason Kendall stole second off Feliz too
“Hey, this guy has never played catcher in this country, i’m gonna run on him!”
How did Shannon Stewart wash out of baseball without getting a stint in KC?
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The best part of that game
Is that Noah Lowry-a pitcher-had to play RF
"You think someone that big would be more well endowed" Aubrey Huff's mother on Pat Burrell
I thought he was going to punch me and I was totally accepting of it. I was planning a reason to thank him if he did." Brian Wilson on Buster Posey
Twiitter: @gobroks
Blog: GMPotential.blogspot
The DM rosterbuilding strategy continues
1) get players with world series rings or playoff experience
2) ??
3) Team will suddenly win due to a larger number of players with playoff experience.
Feliz has a ring (and a .232 OBP in the playoffs), Francoeur went to the World Series last year, Cabrera went to the playoffs a lot, Jeff Francis was in the World Series
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Maybe I'm reading too much into this -
but the move, in and of itself, seems fairly inconsequential. Certainly, he is viewed as emergency insurance in case Aviles gets hurt again and Moose needs a full year in AAA.
BUT
this still makes me sad, because it could be argued that this still means the system, despite being ranked #1, is STILL not good enough to produce a capable backup at 3B in case of an injury. I mean, the guy is 35, and his career has (arguably) fallen off of a cliff. Our system can’t produce a capable backup equal to that? Wow.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Really?
Colon and Giavotella were both rated in the top 10 at their respective positions. And this site goes on and on about Cuthbert and Eibner. And Seitzer was just talking about Lough on the radio. I mean, I’m asking, are we really that thin at position prospects?
Wow, are you in a bad mood today? They Royals have no other position player prospects outside of Hos, Moose and Myers? Only if you only consider top 25 MLB prospects as real prospects. Colon is a top 100 prospect. Gia is a legit prospect, although certainly not a high ceiling guy. It seems like extreme exaggeration to say no position player prospect outside of those three is anything.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 6:11 PM EST up reply actions
Actually we did
But we let Ed Lucas sign with the Braves.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
fields also cant hit for shit
nor can he field, really.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 5:56 PM EST up reply actions
BS
Have you ever seen Feliz play football? I thought not!
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 6:18 PM EST up reply actions
He'd better have a hell of an arm
if the Royals are going to compete for the 2011 AL Central Flag Football crown.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 3, 2011 6:23 PM EST up reply actions
we've got pat white and drob....
thats all you need in flag football
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 6:39 PM EST up reply actions
i do wonder if roscoe crosby is still under contract though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 6:40 PM EST up reply actions
It is a great system full of good prospects
But not major league ready prospects. The development of the minor league system is not yet at a point where we’re ready to add a bunch of pieces to the MLB team. We’re close, but not there yet. So it’s not really accurate to say that the minor league system isn’t even good enough to come up with a piece of 3B depth. It’s full of talent. Most of it is just not yet MLB ready. This is a vetige of the fact that the minor league system was crap when Moore arrived. Rebuilding from scratch means that there won’t be much that is MLB ready right now.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 6:15 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
CUTHBERT NAOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111111
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Feb 3, 2011 6:25 PM EST up reply actions
I disagree. That is true only if you define major leauge ready prospect very tightly.
The Royals have quite a few ML ready players with around one or less years of ml experience.
Greg Holland, Jeremy Jeffress, Vin Mazzaro, Sean O’Sullivan, Kevin Pucetas, Everett Teaford
Blake Wood, Lucas May, Manuel Pina, Alcides Escobar, Clint Robinson, Lorenzo Cain, Jarrod Dyson, David Lough, Derrick Robinson, Nathan Adcock.
None of these players are on the 40 man because they signed major league deals they were protected from people taking them in the rule 5 draft or were taken in the rule 5 or have played in the majors but are nor far removed from prospect status. That’s 16 guys just from the 40 man roster. There are a few more not on the 40 man that are also major leauge ready.
Go Royals!
I'm talking about MLB-ready prospects
Which means 1) genuine prospects, not just MLB-ready bodies like SOS, Pucetas, Wood, etc., and 2) players who can still be considered prospects because they have not lost their rookie eligibility, unlike Escobar, and 3) MLB-ready players unlike D-Rob, C-Rob, Adock, etc.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 4, 2011 12:27 AM EST up reply actions
not sure if people are making fun of us in Spanish, but
joseatavarez
Y con los reales o verdaderos RT @AlfredRguez: Q vivan la menoreeeee RT @elcaribe_: Pedro Feliz acuerda ir a las menores con los Reales
Leos29
Debe estar contento Feliz no? Jiji RT @liderendeportes: #MLB | Pedro Feliz acordó con los Reales pa’ las menores | http://bit.ly/gHfNAn
IgmelSilverio
Victoria Najayo por culpa e la menore RT @AlfredRguez: Q vivan la menoree RT @elcaribe_: Pedro Feliz acuerda ir a las menores con los Reales
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
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In order of tweet
Feliz decides to go to the minors with the Royals.
Long live the minor. (maybe there’s a joke/wordplay I’m not getting here – a quick search makes me think it might be a song/lyrics)
And with the real or true ones.
Feliz (whose name means “happy” in Spanish) agrees with the Royals minors.
Feliz (“Happy”) should be happy, no?
I am lost on this one:
Victoria Najayo por culpa e la menoreVictoria (a singer) because of the minor(s)? Victoria because of the lower? Fault Victoria for the lower/minor?
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 4, 2011 12:28 PM EST up reply actions
It's a minor league deal
At this point, he’s probably a minor league player. You give an old guy a carrot with the invite and incentives and see what happens. I like Betemit honestly, I know he’s a butcher but its fun to watch him mash. The strange thing is that he was a flyer guy last winter. A career year and an extension later you do the same with Feliz? Maybe the thinking is have 2 3Bs, one who fields and one who hits, and then the better of the two can backup Mous.
Vive la Royalution!
The final piece
The Royals are going to the World Series!!!! They just signed Pedro Feliz, he is the last piece of the puzzle!!!! I knew trading Grienke was a GREAT idea!!!!
yes, it was sarcasm
whatever they pay him would used more productively if they just sent me the check!!!
by Terry L. Kelly on Feb 3, 2011 10:20 PM EST up reply actions
Agreed.
Apparently nobody else thinks it’s just a pointless move that wastes some money. The Royals aren’t the government. They shouldn’t be spending money just because they can.
Putting Feliz's offense in perspective
“Bill James” notoriously optimistic projections have Feliz as a .292 wOBA true talent hitter for 2011.
To put that into perspective, Feliz would need to be about 15 runs above average per 150 games…. just to be replacement level.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Feb 3, 2011 7:33 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
wait, bad math, that's not right
oops,sorry. Taking care of The Boy has fried my brain.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 3, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
ok...i was gonna see...jesus thats awful
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Feb 3, 2011 7:37 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, I was surprised at first, as I thought he wasn't that horrible
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 3, 2011 8:00 PM EST up reply actions
18 months next week
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 3, 2011 7:57 PM EST up reply actions
My daughter can!
Of course, I’ve kept her right arm tied down for 20 months.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 9:27 PM EST up reply actions
Have the Only Living Niekro teach her how to throw a knuckle ball.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Feb 3, 2011 11:45 PM EST up reply actions
He actually seems to favor the left hand so far
but I assume it’s meaningless at this age.
I’m hoping that he’ll pitch (and hit) left-handed, but throw right-handed, so that he has options to be an eternal LOOGY or an infielder. A combination of Darren Oliver and Willie Bloomquist, as it were.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Feb 4, 2011 9:51 AM EST up reply actions
DM Now has Mad Moves to Acquire the Four Worst Hitters In Baseball
The four worst hitters hitters (by wOBA) among qualified players from 2008-2010.
127. Pedro Feliz, .284 wOBA
126. Jason Kendall, .288 wOBA
125. Yuniesky Betancourt, .291 wOBA
124. Jeff Francoeur, .298 wOBA
It would be funny if it was not so sad.
by Kansas City Oracle on Feb 3, 2011 8:00 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
No, I think the list is by wOBA
Meaning Alex Gonzalez (currently of the Atlanta Braves) is next on the board for the Royals.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Feb 3, 2011 10:26 PM EST up reply actions
it's destiny!
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Sponsor, 2011 Royals Alumni Fantasy Camp/Royals 5th Starter Star Search
double your pleasure, GMDM!!!!!
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Feb 3, 2011 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
And why stop there?
Cabrera’s available, Lopez can surely be had next season (and is a former Mariner, to boot), Kouzmanoff and Andrus might be difficult to get, but I hear that the Rangers might make a good trade partner, so don’t give up hope…
completely off topic....
does anyone know of any analog home phone providers in the kansas city area?
Fire Everyone
do you mean landline?
I would assume Embarq… (the landline service which broke off from Sprint), but I don’t live in KC.
Schaum has repeated
that Feliz only gets the money if he makes the 25-man. So, yeah…
"This is a very simple game. You throw the ball, you catch the ball, you hit the ball. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, sometimes it rains."
Contributor at Kings of Kauffman
Well, that spiraled out of control quickly.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
lol. Might as well move the team to the Phillipines
and rename them The Manila Folders.
"If people don't want to come out to the ball park, nobody's gonna stop 'em."
~Yogi Berra~
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