Walk Rates and Aging Curves
Recently, I noticed a trend with a few current and ex-Royals. The player will break on to the scene and have a good season, but the player had a low walk rate. The excitement grows around the player and people begin to expect more from the player. Pitchers then begin to figure out that the player will swing at pitches further and further out of the strike zone and their career goes down hill. These player's flashed one year and then seemed to stay around the league because people look back to that one season.
Here is a list of several Royals that fit into that category:
- Jeff Francoeur (2005) - 4.0% BB, 0.370 wOBA, 3.1 WAR (total lifetime WAR = 8.0)
- Yuniesky Betancourt (2006) - 2.9% BB, 0.306 wOBA, 1.6 WAR (total lifetime WAR = 2.5)
- Angel Berroa (2003) - 4.6% BB, 0.344wOBA, 2.7 WAR (total lifetime WAR = 0.4)
I decided to look to see if these players actually age differently than the average population. Fellow writer and research, Mitchel Lichtman, publish the most comprehensive batting aging study to day (here and here). I asked him if he would use his data and create a new curve with a different set of players and he agreed.
The criteria I sent him was that the player in just one season needed to have 300 plate appearances, an above average wOBA and be 25 years old or younger. A little over 300 players met the criteria since 1980. The following is the aging curve for the subset of players and the general hitter population.
The one key to remember is that this curve looks at how they age, not how good they will hit. Vlad makes the list of players looked at. He was good at having little plate discipline. It is just the players that have that low walk rate, don't peak like other players.
Not exactly the curve I was expecting when I asked for the data, but there is some useful information available. Both curves peak generally at the same age, 27 for the low walk group and 28 for the general population. The big difference is that the low walk group don't improve nearly as much as they age into the peak years. Then when they begin to decline, they drop off at the same rate as the general population.
The key information to take from this data is that players that had low walk rates when they were young will be playing near their career best and they should not be expected to get much better as they age into their prime years.
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so what you're really trying to say is . . .

Frenchy is who we thought he was?
by RoyalCreole on Mar 10, 2011 12:41 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
I love this pic
Someone should blow this up and tape it to Frenchy’s locker.
Seriously, when Frenchy was a kid, was he punished if he didn’t make contact?
It reminds me of playing when I was a kid and we didn’t have a catcher. There were weeds and poison ivy behind home plate, so if we didn’t hit the ball, it meant we had to go through the dang weeds.
by maestrodave on Mar 10, 2011 12:55 PM EST reply actions 1 recs
That pic is a little misleading.
Obviously after making contact. Or Francoeur and the catcher are both that bad.
only a little
you can see the catcher’s mitt and the barrel of the bat are well into the opposing batter’s box. That pitch wasn’t anywhere near the strike zone.
Yeah, he actually swung at a pitch one foot off the plate, not two feet.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 10, 2011 2:31 PM EST up reply actions
The catcher's mitt is the giveaway
It’s well to the right of his helmet. The pitch was off the plate. And Frenchy’s not even all the way into his swing yet, so the moment captured is not after contact; the ball’s coming in, not going out.
"America is a nation without a distinct criminal class, with the possible exception of Congress." --Mark Twain
Hmm..
While I agree that it was a bad pitch to swing at, nobody is swinging at that pitch if it is still on it’s way in. Not even Frenchy.
I’m not really sure this is worth the discussion, but the catchers mitt is a giveaway that the ball has actually been hit.
The bat's still moving, so
why can’t the catcher’s mitt still be moving? French is swinging at a wild pitch and the catcher is getting ready to run to the backsop..
by HeavyHitter on Mar 11, 2011 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
The Way His
Butt is sticking out it seems he started to bail before he decided to swing.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 10, 2011 10:07 PM EST up reply actions
every time i see this picture, i throw up a little
regardless of the circumstances, my imagination can fabricate a back story all too easily
for when I'm too lazy to come here, http://twitter.com/AtTheWall
Could you graph the rate of change for each line?
I realize it would be messy because it’s not a true line in the sense that it’s not perfectly smooth and you don’t have an equation. But could you differentiate manually by looking at the rate of change at each age? Comparing the slopes would give an idea as to who is improving/getting worse faster/slower.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 10, 2011 1:04 PM EST reply actions
This is a good opportunity to turn some low walk rate players into other commodities
If another team thinks they have upside, you know they are wrong (for the most part). Their trade value is above their true value. Moustakas, I’m eyeing you!
I'd give Moose another year
He seemed to have a patience breakthrough at AA last year, only to lose it at AAA.
If he can go back to walking about 10% of the time, then there is no need to move him.
But if he puts up the same walk numbers that he did in AAA again(about 5%), then I’d start to be worried.
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
was Mous in AA
being kind of pitched around, to help achieve that 10% walk rate? I’m sure not many dared throwing one down the pipe on him. In AAA, with more advanced pitching, my guess is that they gave him more sinking type pitches and had smarter pitchers.
Walk rate
At AA, Moustakas’ walk rate was 8.7% overall, but if you take out the 5 intentional walks (out of 26 total walks), the rate drops to 7.0%.
I'd definitely give him another year.
I’m thinking one year at the MLB level, and if he shows Berroa-like patience but puts up some great numbers, then I say we trade him.
Just curious
what was the cutoff for “low walk rate”?
Sorry, 5%
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Mar 10, 2011 6:34 PM EST up reply actions

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