Worst Decisions Possible: 2011
It’s time for the third annual look at the worst possible roster and player usage decisions Dayton Moore and Ned Yost can make. By any estimation, the Royals won’t be good in 2011. But there are decisions Moore and Yost could make which would make them even worse than they would otherwise be. More frighteningly, there are moves they could make which could hurt the Royals future, which is of course much more important.
Let’s start with a look back at the two prior WDP’s (2009 and 2010). The table below shows the number of WDP’s for each year, my prediction for how many would be made, how many were actually made and the Moore/Hillman/Yost WDP failure percentage.
Those WDP percentages are considerably higher than I’m sure any Royals fan would like. Surprisingly, my predictions make me look like a cock-eyed optimist. Anyway, let’s take a look at what 2011 might bring.
1. Jeff Francoeur starts all season? Frenchy hasn’t been any good for quite a while. Marcel projects a .258/.305/.396 line. Other good projection systems don’t disagree much. Defensively, his aggregate over the last three years has been -6, -2 and 1. So I don’t think he’s even an average defensive corner OFer anymore. The only utility Francoeur has for any team is as a platoon partner with someone who can hit RHP’s. And other Royals, like Mitch Maier, project to be better everyday players. Long story short, Francoeur definitely shouldn’t be an everyday player. One could argue that Francoeur is a potential pump-and-dump candidate like Podsednik and Ankiel last year, but Frenchy showed his midseason trade value last year: Joaquin Arias. A couple months after acquiring Arias, he was waived. That’s what Francoeur is worth in a "deadline trade": a player not really worthy of a major league roster spot who has no upside. I don’t value the prospect of playing Frenchy everyday for four months in the hopes that they can get a D prospect for him.
Will they make this mistake? Yes. Dayton Moore clearly loves Francoeur and has coveted him for years. Now he finally has the Grit Machine in his grasp. And, of course, Moore promised him a starting job. I’m sure Moore has made clear to Yost that Francoeur is the everyday RFer. I’m also sure that Yost agrees fully.
2. Melky Cabrera starts in CF at all? Melky hasn’t been good for quite a while, doesn’t project to hit well and doesn’t have particularly good defensive numbers. Sound familiar? In addition to Maier and Gregor Blanco, the Royals have Lorenzo Cain who they hope to be the CFer of the future. Cain has more upside than Melky both with the bat and the glove. And it’s not like Cain is some young kid who could use more seasoning in the minors. He’s 25 years old and has already made it to the majors and didn’t exactly look overmatched, hitting .306/.348/.415. There’s really no reason for Melky to be on the team. Yet again there is the argument that he should play every day so that he can be traded to a contender in July. But contenders looking for a 4th or 5th OFer (and that’s the best Melky can hope for) are usually looking for at least one plus skill (hitting, speed, or defense). Pods had a reputation for speed and defense. Ankiel had a reputation for power hitting. Melky has zero plus skills and I don’t think his reputation is any better than that. I don’t think Melky is even average in any aspect of the game. I don’t see getting anything more than a D prospect or roster filler for him. So why start him in CF at all?
Will they make this mistake? Yes. Moore promised Melky the starting CF job. And apparently DM really thinks that if the Royals don’t fulfill that promise to a $1.25M free agent, then FA’s will turn their back on the Royals for years to come. So Melky’s locked into the Opening Day starting CF job. He’ll keep it for some indeterminate time. It will be too long.
3. Alex Gordon doesn’t start in LF for the entire season? Gordon has talent and still has upside potential. He can draw walks and hit home runs. There’s also potential that he’ll be an average or better defensive LFer. It is important that the Royals use this season to evaluate Gordon. It’s still too early to give up on him. Trading him at this point would be selling very low on him. The Royals would likely get back much less than Gordon’s potential. And given the organization’s thinness in the OF, they can’t afford to give up on his potential. Also, benching him, platooning him or making him a four-corners utility player would minimize his value and give the Royals less of a chance to evaluate him in a meaningful way. He has to be a starter, and all year long. That’s what 90+ loss rebuilding seasons are for.
Will they make this mistake? No. I don’t think Moore or Yost have given up on Gordon. They know the OF is an organizational weakness and they want Gordon to succeed and fill one of the OF holes, hopefully for the next three years. I think he’ll get his shot unless he has a really bad first half. Then things could get crazy.
4. Mike Aviles doesn’t get at least 500 PA’s? Mike Aviles is a pretty good player who can legitimately play 2B, 3B and SS. While not exactly young and developing, he’s shown that he can hit when he’s healthy and play decent defense. Until Mike Moustakas makes it to KC, Aviles should be the third baseman. Pedro Feliz should be an emergency option at best (if he’s even in the organization at all in the regular season) and Wilson Betemit is such a defensive liability that he should only play in the field when absolutely necessary. When Moustakas gets to KC, Aviles should be the everyday second baseman. Chris Getz can’t hit a lick and isn’t sufficiently spectacular defensively to make up for that. So Aviles should be a starter. He can start at 3B, move to 2B and backup SS to give Escobar a rest as needed.
Will they make this mistake? No. The options are so poor that barring injury, I see Aviles at 3B and 2B all season. I know they don’t love his defense, but I believe they like him enough to recognize he’s superior to Feliz, Betemit, Getz and borderline major leaguers like Arias and Zawadzki.
5. Kila Ka’aihue doesn’t get at least 500 PA’s? I don’t how well Kila will perform in 2011 or beyond. It’s really hard to say because he hasn’t been given much of a chance in the majors. Over the last three years, he’s absolutely dominated at the AA and AAA level. But in the majors he hasn’t hit very well, over very limited playing time. But he’s shown stretches of good play, like September 2010. How he’d do this season is anybody’s guess. The projection systems mostly like him, but that’s because they are primarily projecting him based on his minor league numbers. And you never know how well a player will make the jump to the majors. But, this is the kind of season in which a team can give a starting role to a question mark player with talent and a good minor league pedigree. Give him the whole season, sharing 1B/DH with Butler. See if he can figure out how to hit major league pitching. If he fails, then the Royals will realize that they don’t really have a 1B/DH logjam at all and they can forget about Hosmer transitioning to the OF. If, on the other hand, Kila has a good season, then they’ll know that something has to be done for the next season: either a trade or a position change for someone. This is information the Royals really need to collect.
Will they make this mistake? No. I’m not sure, but I think Moore is committed to giving Kila a shot. The only real competition for DH time is Betemit and I don’t think that that will be enough to unseat Kila. The only caveat is that if Ka’aihue gets off to a bad start, Yost and Moore might get a little panicky and bench or platoon him.
6. Jason Kendall catches more than 60 games? Being the grit golem that he is, Kendall is rushing back to "health" and likely MLB playing time sooner than anyone anticipated. (Yay?) Kendall really is awful now. He’s pretty close to a replacement level player and he’s coming off injury. With Brayan Pena and Lucas May in the organization, why rush Kendall back as soon as he possibly can play? And when he comes back, wouldn’t it make sense to take it easy on the old guy and his injury and play him only part-time?
Will they make this mistake? Yes. In the traditional Moore/Yost way of thinking, a grizzled veteran catcher supposedly full of wonderful intangibles is indispensable. Both Hillman and Yost played Kendall about as much as they possibly could last season. They yearn for his irreplaceable leadership on the field. They think it is worth at least 3 runs a game. They’ll play him as early and as often as they can. The only potential bright spot is that rushing him back could lead to re-injury and more DL time. You can cross your fingers or not.
7. Eric Hosmer gets promoted to the majors in 2011? Here’s the deal, if Hosmer is promoted to KC this year and stays in the bigs from then on, the Royals would have control of him through 2017. But if Moore waits until mid-April 2012, then he could be a Royal through 2018. It is much more valuable to the Royals to have him for an extra year (2018) than for him to get playing time in the majors in a lost year (2011). I could have added Moustakas as well, but since he’s already had half a season of play in AAA, I don’t think calling him up in June would be a "worst decision possible." And I understand the desire to toss some red meat to fans who need a little something to be interested in for the 2011 Royals season.
Additionally, I think Hosmer’s age is relevant. This year will be his age 21 season. That means he is called up this year, the Royals would have control of him for ages 21-27. A recent study by Tom Tango looked at peak WAR years in relation to age at which a player is called up. His findings on position players are summarized here:
If you look at each row, we see that the peak age is ages 23-29. Therefore, in order to maximize pre-free agency performance, you want a player from age 23 to 29. The incentive therefore is that even if Bryce Harper has enough talent to be a rookie at age 19, he’s going to get his six year peak at age 23-29 (on average).
Will they make this mistake? No. So far Moore has effectively gamed the service time clocks of Hochevar and Butler (but not Gordon). And Hosmer is quite young and hasn’t had any playing time at the AAA level. I think he’ll give him a full season in AAA and we’ll see him in KC in April 2012.
8. Any of the lefties will be rushed? It’s almost never a good idea to rush a prospect. Sometimes when you’re in a pennant race and you desperately need a talented player a little before he’s major league ready, it makes sense to call him up. But the Royals won’t be in that position in 2011. So top prospects like Montgomery, Duffy and Lamb shouldn’t be rushed to KC despite the fact that the pitching staff and especially the rotation is really going to stink. Also, with regard to age, here is what Tango’s above referenced study had to say about pitchers:
Repeating for pitchers, and the results are similar, but earlier. The peak age is 21-27 or 22-28. Specifically, if you think he’s ready at age 19 or age 20, you bring him up then and there. That’s because the peak period includes, on average, his rookie year.
So the age issue for Hosmer, discussed above, is different for the Royals top pitching prospects. To maximize WAR, you call them up when they are ready. The question then becomes, what is "ready" and what constitutes "rushing" a pitching prospect? I think given the Royals current situation, a top pitching prospect shouldn’t be called up until he’s shown a) a high level of performance at the AAA level, and b) that he doesn’t have something significant that he still needs to work on (like one or more secondary pitches, commanding his fastball, etc.). I also think that it would most benefit the Royals if the player’s "peak period" which might include his rookie season, started in 2012. So if possible, I think holding off calling up any of the lefties until mid-April 2012 at the earliest would be best.
Will they make this mistake? No. So far Moore hasn’t rushed prospects. One could argue that Gordon was rushed, but I think that is an exceptionally weak argument given his prospect status, age and minor league performance when he was called up. The fact that he didn’t become a star doesn’t in my opinion show that he was rushed. This doesn’t mean Moore will never rush prospects. But again, I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
9. Jeff Francis, Kyle Davies, Bruce Chen, Wilson Betemit, Jeff Francoeur and Melky Cabrera won’t be traded (if at all possible)? Each of those players, with the exception of Melky, is either on a one-year contract or is in his final season of team control this year. They will not be a part of the Royals future, so Moore should trade them for whatever he can get for them. The only caveat is that if a player looks like he’s likely to be a Type A or B free agent, and no good trade offers are made for them, it might make sense to hold onto him and take the draft pick compensation. This, however, is a difficult gamble because the decision would need to be made in July when the player has 1/3 of the season left to possibly tank and drop out of Type B status and then the Royals would get nothing for him. So Dayton, if you get a decent offer for one of these guys, take it.
Will they make this mistake? Yes and No. I think Moore is willing to trade some of these guys, but I think he’s unwilling get rid of all of them because he would see that as stripping the team bare and losing even more games this season than he otherwise would. So I think some of these players who can be traded will not be. But I’ll give Moore partial credit on this one.
10. An old, over the hill player will be acquired? There are always some veteran players on the market who were once good but either aren’t good anymore, or who cost more than they are worth. At the moment, that includes players like Michael Young (not a bad player, but past his peak and expensive even though the Rangers reportedly will kick in part of his contract, but are looking for "top end" prospects) and Luis Castillo (would come cheap, but he’s awful). There will be more opportunities like this as the season progresses. And they are all opportunities for wasted money and/or failure.
Will they make this mistake? No. Moore appears to be mostly committed to rebuilding this season and swallowing the bitter pill of losing 90+ games yet again.
I’ve identified ten big mistakes that Moore and Yost could make this season, but I only predict they’ll make 3 1/2 of them. And that really worries me. Moore and Yost always exceed my expectations for their mis- and malfeasance. So what do you think? Will he make more or fewer of these mistakes? Or were my WDP’s not really mistakes at all, but shrewd moves and I just can’t see the potential wonderfulness in them?
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The OF situation just never ceases to amaze me...
Last year, when the rumor at the end of the season was that Dyson was going to be handed the CF/leadoff job, I though that that was pretty ambitious, likely not to work out, but also possibly worth trying.
Compared to playing Melky, it’s genius.
And again, I hear all the time, “the Royals have brought Cabrera and Francouer in at just the right time, they are poised/capable of getting their careers back on track!” Yea, which would be relevant if the Royals had signed them to 3 year deals, which they didn’t.
Oh, and on top of all of that, there’s the fact that Gregor freakin’ Blanco is probably better than either Dyson or Cabrera.
yet, a recent article by Dutton
speculated on the possibility of the Royals going with 5 OFs – the 3 expected starters, Maier, and Dyson as the 5th. Presumably, Dyson would be a late inning defensive replacement/pinch runner role.
Now, if the Royals were projected to contend, this would make a lot of sense; otherwise, if you can’t stomach Dyson starting in the majors, then he needs to be starting in the minors, just in case he might be capable of learning to hit. Making him a 5th OF now pretty much ELIMINATES the (admittedly) slim chance that he might develop into a regular one day.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Enjoy this annual writeup, Scott
The only item I was going to disagree on was rushing one of the lefties – but after reviewing what you wrote, I don’t actually disagree, I just think Montgomery is going to dominate AAA, and have no apparent major weaknesses to work on, by mid season. In that case, they would not technically be rushing him.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Yeah, the whole rush/ready issue for those pitchers this year is a tough one
I think the rule of thumb should be call a pitcher up when he’s ready (provided there is room on the major league pitching staff for him, and of course there is on this staff). But that is somewhat complicated by the issue of a definitely losing season this year and the fact that calling the pitcher up in mid-April 2012 keeps the player through 2018. I’d err on the side of keeping the pitching prospect in the minors this year, but I wouldn’t object much to a call up once the player has really dominated AAA.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions
Not quite that simple on the service time issue with the lefties.
They will all have three option years, so it is possible to game the service time later when they are having trouble. Even a September look at Hosmer could be gamed in 2012.
You missed four possible worst decisions as well.
1 The Royals look to lose May or Pena whenever Kendall makes the team, so half the damage will be done by him just being put on the 25 man roster so that is a "worst decision of its own.
2. Not taking the best seven relievers when the Royals could quite easily stand to lose some marginal guys to the waiver wire so that the Royals have “inventory” and then bringing them up as predictibly the bad relievers fail.
3. Gettting rid of Dusty Hughes and then wasting a roster spot on less accomplished lefty due to spring training results. Actually, its worse then that and the Royals may do this just on a whim. Smells fishy already.
3. Having eight relievers on the 25 man at some point in the season, and still not having your best relievers in KC. Bingo.
Go Royals!
They will all have three option years, so it is possible to game the service time later when they are having trouble. Even a September look at Hosmer could be gamed in 2012.
Yes, but if we’re talking about a good time for them to be in the minors, 2011 makes a lot more sense than 2012 or beyond. Yes, any one or all of them might struggle and/or fail, thus leading to a demotion. But every team needs to plan for success. If the player is going to succeed, what is the best time to promote him? You don’t just say, “call him up whenever, because he could fail later, requiring a demotion.”
With regard to your #3, Dusty Hughes was a bad pitcher. Couldn’t get strikeouts. Didn’t have great control. He was pretty worthless. I can’t see a good argument for how he’s likely better than Fish, who also appears to be a bad pitcher.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 3:34 PM EDT up reply actions
While I don't want to get too bogged down into the whole 2011 is a lost season train of thought,
I don’t know that beginning to stream your young starters in this season is necessarily an awful thing. We can continue to argue that every top prospect should be stored away down in the minors to game service time, but there is also value to having some of them getting a little Major League experience. I am by no means arguing that they should all get called up in July and the Royals should jettison their current rotation, but giving them reps in the Bigs can get them closer to being useful. If Montgomery proves to be an effective starter in a short stint with the Royals, that is one less thing for them to worry about in the ensuing offseason.
Of the prospects, he’s really the only one I would imagine will see some playing time this season. He seemed to be the closest to the Majors last year, and I can’t imagine too much has changed since then. Duffy, Dwyer, and especially Lamb seem like they’re 2012 arrivals but letting one of the four lefties get a taste of the ML life can be a potentially positive thing.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Mar 22, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions
This is good stuff
Some of it cringe worthy. Kendall worries me more than the others. I really came to loathe that fellow in 2010.
by LaFLamme on Mar 22, 2011 2:06 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Per #4
I am curious about Aviles as a possible trade chip. Since Utley’s out for quite awhile, and the Phillies are in absolute ‘win now’ mode, along with the fact that their payroll is maxed, I wonder if Aviles might be a good, low cost option for them. Has anyone heard any scuttlebut regarding Utley fill-ins? Should we attempt to try and start a self-fulfilling rumor?
by Yunielateral Movement on Mar 22, 2011 2:22 PM EDT reply actions
very fair point
however, i could envision a scenario where castillo performs especially poorly, and the phils consider looking for low cost second options. their lineup without utley and werth may prove anemic.
by Yunielateral Movement on Mar 22, 2011 4:20 PM EDT up reply actions
arent we looking at utley most likely missing just a few weeks?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
my fantasy team hopes so
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 5:28 PM EDT up reply actions
also, well done on the post
I’d also definitely take the ‘over’ on 3.5 of these worst-case scenarios being realized by Messrs Moore & Yost.
by Yunielateral Movement on Mar 22, 2011 2:25 PM EDT reply actions
I'd take the over as well
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I have to disagree about the Melky and Frenchy ‘Worst Decisions Possible’
In RF, your options boil down to Frenchy and Maier (and Melky if he’s not in CF). Without going too into detail, their statistical projections are similarly lackluster. I don’t know which scouts would prefer at this point, but Frenchy at least has the advantages of being a year and a half younger, and of having once been considered a top prospect. Maybe Maier would be a better choice, but it’s at least a close call. I don’t think either selection could be classified as a ‘worst possible decision.’
In CF, you’ve got a different situation. Here, the candidates to start are Cabrera, Cain and Maier. (Dyson doesn’t hit enough to be the starter, and Blanco has played his way out of consideration this spring.) Cain is clearly the preferred player, but there’s no compelling reason to start him with the MLB club. Statistically, his successful MLB half-season in 2010 looks luck-driven, and since he has very little experience above AA, making him prove himself in AAA for a month or two seems perfectly reasonable. Comparing Cabrera and Maier, their statistical projections are similar, while Cabrera is 2 years younger. Starting Cabrera over Maier strikes me as being closer to a good decision than a ‘worst possible decision.’ It’s harder to take a hard stance on Cabrera vs Cain. Cain is probably better, but given Cain’s lack of experience and the fact that the Royals aren’t contending this year, starting Cain in AAA is a perfectly good option, so it makes sense to take a month to see what the players do before making a more final decision. Again, Cain vs Cabrera strikes me as a judgement call where neither decision would be obviously wrong.
Cain vs. Melky
Cain is probably better, but given Cain’s lack of experience and the fact that the Royals aren’t contending this year, starting Cain in AAA is a perfectly good option, so it makes sense to take a month to see what the players do before making a more final decision
I don’t see how Cain’s lack of major league experience means it makes more sense to ship him to the minors and start Melky. Based on what Cain did in the high minors and majors at age 24 (last year), he definitely looks major league ready. And IMO he’s not worthy of gaming his service time clock (which would require keeping him in the minors until sometime in August). So if he’s MLB ready and likely better than Cabrera, wouldn’t it make sense to start him in CF all year? That way he gets to develop as a major leaguer and the Royals get to evaluate him and see if he’s potentially a good long-term answer for the CF. Going into an offseason with a lot of money to spend, that would be very valuable information to have.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Cain has 258 PA's above AA
Cain is considered to be the likely CF of the future, so unless he forgets how to play, he’s going to get a good MLB shot this year. If the Royals don’t see what they have in Cain by the year’s end, then they’ve definitely made a huge error, but we’re not talking about that.
The decision is between giving Cain the starting job from opening day and starting Cain in AAA to give Melky a short evaluation period. Melky’s 26 and is controlled through arbitration next year. While he’s a long shot to play well, there’s almost no downside to giving him a month or two to see how he plays. Given that Melky is so unlikely to turn into a valuable asset, there’s also very little downside (beyond a broken promise to a FA?) to benching Melky from the start in favor of Cain. I don’t think that going with Cain from Day 1 would be a problem, but I also don’t see how giving Melky a 6 week audition would constitute a ‘worst decision possible.’
If I had my way.....
I would bring up Cain and Moustakas together, assuming neither does anything unexpected (good or bad). If Moustakas comes alone, the spotlight is likely to solely be on him and him alone, which will be a lot of pressure.
Of course, all of this becomes less relevant if they Royals (or some of their core such as Butler, Kila, Escobar, Collins, etc.) can get a good start out of the gate.
/tweeting.... @displacedsptsfn
I agree on the rest tho
Although if Hosmer bats .400 in AAA with 30 HRs through August while playing excellent defense in RF, I’d like to see him called up. If a player is ready and deserving of a promotion beyond all reasonable doubt, I favor calling him up rather than crudely gaming his service time. Of course, erasing all reasonable doubt is a high hurdle to clear.
Crudely?
I don’t care about crude. I care about what is best for the team. Other smart organizations game the service time clocks of top prospects. Why should the Royals avoid such crudity and deprive themselves of an additional season of the player’s services?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 3:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree....except
payroll this year for KC is SO low, that the organization should be pretty cash-heavy by the time the season is over.
Take the funds, continue to invest in the farm, and prepare to hand out more long-term pre-arbitration buyouts (like they’ve done with Butler). I think this would help take the service clock out of play a bit and make KC more attractive to top-level draft entries.
/tweeting.... @displacedsptsfn
KC is already attractive to top-level draftees.
IT’S THE BEST SYSTEM EVER!!!!!!! Where have you been?
Seriously though, high level draftees sign with KC. Look at the last 3-5 years. We pay way over slot for most of the top level prospects in the system.. That’s how we have guys like WiL Myers being drafted in the 3rd round.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 22, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
But even then, you are still losing a season.
Two Scenarios
- Bring up Hosmer to start the season, and eventually you buy out his arb years and 2 free agent years
- Game Hosmer’s service time in a non-contending season, eventually you buy out his arb years and 2 free agent years
Scenario 2 gives the Royals an extra season.
Unless he changes agents
the latter part of each of those scenarios is not likely to happen.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Mar 22, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions
the guys we'd want to longoria
moustakas and hosmer….arent gonna do it. who else would you wanna lock up that early?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 5:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Melky, Frenchy and Kendall will play
…nearly every game that they’re not on the disabled list.
One of the lefties, Montgomery most likely, will be brought in around midseason. The staff will probably be that bad.
Does #10
cover trading away prospects to acquire said veteran? If so I think that’s the biggest worry I have. It’s too soon to decide what holes we need to fill and which prospects we can afford to trade to do so.
Yes
Trading away geniuine prospects for an older, over the hill, and/or costly veteran would be the worst of the worst case scenarios. Of course trading Everett Teaford and Paulo Orlando for someone like Blanton wouldn’t be bad at all, as neither player is a legitimate prospect and Blanton isn’t really overpaid.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
One corollary to this that I think might be a good use of resources
is to use the team’s current payroll versatility to acquire a crappy veteran on a bad contract in addition to prospects. There will be some teams (the Mets spring to mind) that are highly motivated to unload bad contracts, and the Royals are in good position to take advantage of that by taking the bad contract in addition to a couple high level prospects, or, in effect, buying prospects. They’d probably have to trade away a couple of no-upside prospects (Clint Robinson, etc) to make it look okay, but it’s something to consider.
by billexgordler on Mar 22, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Interesting idea
But do any teams trade away an ok player with a bad contract plus a good prospect or two? It may well have happened, but I’d like an example if there is one.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions
nothing springs to mind
it’s more of an NBA thing where a hard cap makes such moves necessary, but if things get bad enough financially for the Mets, it may force their hands.
by billexgordler on Mar 23, 2011 12:01 AM EDT up reply actions
JASON BAY~!
KC really needs a Canadian Jose Guillen.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Mar 23, 2011 10:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I really like these posts
even though they are brutal reminders (as if we need any) of how horrific it is to be a fan of this team.
Sign a new CBA NOW, you greedy bastards.
French
Francoeur is just turned 27 and back at his original playing weight. I think it would be “dumb” of us to assume that he won’t improve at the plate, even slightly. Even if Jeff Francoeur becomes a lefty option and occassional starting right fielder I think he was a good addition to this team.
A strong throwing arm can’t be taught, which Francoeur possesses. and at his new weight, Jeff could provide the Royals with good defense.
I think everyone here is a bit harsh when it comes to Francoeur.
I think he’s the kind of player who can get his career turned around….he’s the same age as Hochevar.
Francoeur is just turned 27 and back at his original playing weight. I think it would be "dumb" of us to assume that he won’t improve at the plate, even slightly.
Because he’s in the best shape of his career? Or is there something else there that I’m not seeing?
A strong throwing arm can’t be taught, which Francoeur possesses. and at his new weight, Jeff could provide the Royals with good defense.
Range can’t be taught either. Is there good reason to believe that his decreasing range over the last few years was due to weight issues?
I think he’s the kind of player who can get his career turned around….he’s the same age as Hochevar.
For better or worse, Hochevar hasn’t had as much MLB playing time as Frenchy, and therefore hasn’t proven that his true talent level is quite low.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 4:14 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Being a complete dumbass
and making bad reads on flyballs and line drives cannot be corrected by doing P90X. I would think that the improvement in his ability to do pullups in the clubhouse would make his grit explode all over the place, but I digress… I sincerely hope that we’re all wrong about Frenchy, but seriously…that’s not possible. 99% of us agree on this subject as does the majority of the baseball world sans DM/Yost.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 22, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
i think its a pretty reasonable assumption
that a guy losing 20 lbs is going to increase his speed a little bit and therefore increase his range in the OF. Now, whether that change is significant enough to make a difference, we’ll see.
The signing was still awful though b/c even if he does play good defense and the stats bear it out, no organization is going to give up anything of value for him based on 3 months of improved defensive stats.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions
Speed isn't necessarily the most important thing in the OF.
It’s that first step. Step the wrong way and a catchable liner becomes a double to the wall.
definitely....
but there’s no logic in saying that someone who gets faster wont improve their range…but like i said, it’ll probably be a pretty insignificant difference
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, it may make a difference on a couple long fly balls that hang up
But if he’s running that far, the CF should get it. Oh wait… Melky’s in center. Nevermind…
That's true about speed but...
When comparing a player against himself, I think the weight issue does matter; Francouer was going take a bad or good first step at either weight, regardless, but correcting the wrong step or moving after the first step would be easier minus 20 lbs. And ‘defending’ Francouer is not something I relish, so now I must go shower it off.
"Today I did my good deed to be 'green'; I gathered up everything in my house that wasn't bio-degradable...and I threw it out." - Todd Jordan, Denver comic
by setupunchtag on Mar 23, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions
I still don't get what we're doing with Clint Robinson.
Surely winning the Texas league triple crown last year garners some attention from other scouts/GM’s doesn’t it?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 22, 2011 4:43 PM EDT reply actions
Not when another player on the same team had your stats outpaced
and you only beat him because he was moved to AAA.
And if you still don’t get it, take a look at Kila Ka’aihue’s career path.
scouting reports matter...alot
this is why no other organizations have been willing to give anything up for kila even when it has been clear that our organization doesnt value him too highly
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 5:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What I meant was
that I don’t understand if the plans are just to continue to use him as organizational filler, or do we parlay his triple crown into a younger prospect with upside? I know he only won becaus Moose went up to Omaha, but if he keeps hitting I would think that someone will notice.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 22, 2011 5:52 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think the Royals could trade him for a younger prospect with upside right now
Right now, he’d only be a semi-interesting throw-in on a bigger trade.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions
I think we'd all rather have the younger guy with upside.
So would every other ML team. Robinson is old for his level and lacks projectability due to lack of tools and a maxed out frame.
I don’t think scouts love his tools. So he’s going to need to play very well at the AAA level before this organization and others really take him seriously. I know I won’t take him seriously as a prospect until he does that. So far he has one impressive AA season under his belt. He’ll need to do more.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 5:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Decisions 8 and 9, as far as pitchers go, are tied closely to each other
If one (or more) of Francis/Chen/Davies IS traded (yay?), then I can see them bringing up one (or more) of the pitchers you listed from the minors (boo?). Or, if the Royals deem that Monty/Duffy/Lamb are NOT ready for ML duty this year, I can see them holding on to F/C/D all year. Somebody has to pitch, so one of these WDP is likely to happen (at least in part). I guess the only “X” factor is if Monty/Duffy/Lamb are “ready” when the trade/promote scenario plays out.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Mar 22, 2011 5:57 PM EDT reply actions
Yes for Moore I can see them being related, but they need not be
Some keep saying that someone needs to pitch. Well, “someone” does not necessarily have to be either the current rotation or a top prospect. There are others available to pitch. That would require Moore being ok with additional losses. That would be smart, as acquiring talent and handling top prospects is more important than how many games the Royals lose this year.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Btw - I also meant to say - "YOU COCK-EYED OPTIMIST!!!"
Anyway – I understand that these 2 WDP don’t have to be related. I just don’t have the confidence that the Royals/Moore will seperate them like we hope they will.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Mar 22, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions
On the possibility of Frenchy turning it around
Isn’t his issue swinging at bad pitches? Even if he is good at hitting strikes, won’t he see even less of them in a Royals lineup that is bad, and even worse considering he’ll likely be hitting after the one legit batter the Royals have in Butler? Look for an OBP that blows away expectations (on the bad side)…
Thanks, I appreciate it.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 22, 2011 9:04 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're wrong about Frenchy's defense.
The stats may say one thing, and it’s not like they’re way off or anything, but it seems like everybody from a scouting background thinks he is an above average outfielder. However, that’s only because of the arm. And it’s very nitpicky to even bring it up, because Maier is as good or better in RF even if he didn’t have an arm. But Maier does have an arm, and it’s around average. So it’s mostly irrelevant, which makes it even clearer that Maier should be starting. So I disagree on a very minor thing, but agree overall.
Lorenzo Cain's numbers
suggest that he was not overmatched, but he also had some help with a .370 BABIP. With his speed, perhaps more than a .300 BABIP is to be expected, but .370 is high for anybody. I could see a .340 BABIP even, but without much of a track record, we can’ t say.
nobody of cains profile consistently has a 340 BABIP
over the last 5 years the list is ichiro whos a freak and a bunch of guys who consistently crush the ball
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 22, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
You mention Aviles' defense.
We don’t have a ton of data for him statistically, but I bet a lot of people didn’t realize that in 2008 (his rookie year), he put up a 24.0 on the UZR/150 at SS and a 11.7 UZR in 91 games. That’s worth something. Oddly enough, his numbers at 2B are below average. Weird.
Generally speaking
Aviles’s playing time in 2008 probably wasn’t enough of a defensive sample to make meaningful interpretations on. A three-year sample would be preferable, and my guess is that those ’08 figures are a little misleading in regards to his true defensive ability.
Hating life as a Royals fan 365 days a year at Royalscentricity
by Old Man Duggan on Mar 23, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
True, and I sort of implied that it wasn't a decent sample.
But at the same time that I implied that, I also said it’s worth something. Because he did play a little over half a season, and because he had already racked up 11.7 UZR, I feel like there is something to that. And for what it’s worth, I remember him being really good at SS that year (but it was overshadowed by his offense).
He's Not Channeling
Ozzie Smith, Frank White and Brooks Robinson, but he’s at least league average at all three positions. I still think SS is his best position, but that ship has sailed. He’s still a good backup.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 23, 2011 1:17 AM EDT up reply actions
It would be nice if Aviles became the regular second baseman until unseated by Colon (or maybe but probably not Giavotella).
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 23, 2011 3:48 AM EDT up reply actions
His Bat Plays
Much better at MIF than a corner.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Mar 23, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
What about screwing up the draft?
…say Rendon, Cole, Purke, and Springer are off the board. The Royals pick someone other than Starling like, say, a lesser rated Dylan Bundy…or would you fellows think that would actually be a screw-up? I think it would; seems silly to pass on someone with that potential in your own back yard.
"Today I did my good deed to be 'green'; I gathered up everything in my house that wasn't bio-degradable...and I threw it out." - Todd Jordan, Denver comic
I wouldn’t mind Jackie Bradley, either, I suppose.
"Today I did my good deed to be 'green'; I gathered up everything in my house that wasn't bio-degradable...and I threw it out." - Todd Jordan, Denver comic
by setupunchtag on Mar 23, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions
It's hard to say what "screwing up the draft" would be immediately following the event
unless it was clear the royals went cheap instead of with the best talent available. I still don’t understand how “having someone in our own backyard” means anything other than that we should have a better grasp of their talent, which in Starling’s case (as one of the top prep players) is probably not understated.
True, but...
While screwing up the draft is definitely a bad thing, it’s hard to say what “screwing up the draft would mean.” Moore has drafted extremely well. I think it would be silly for me to say “don’t draft this guy, draft that guy!” I think the only way Moore and his people could screw up the draft is if they didn’t take the best, high-upside talent available, and instead went with guys with lower ceilings who could/should be MLB-ready earlier and thus make it to the bigs in time to help “The Wave.” But I really don’t think that will happen. Moore and his people love high ceiling, toolsy kids.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 23, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
hopefully, you're right
that they’ll keep taking the best player on the board. They’ve been making good decisions after the first round, but I don’t feel confident Moore isn’t making plans for “The Wave.” There’s a lot of talent that’ll be available at our pick this year, but I’m worried we’re dead-set on a collegiate RHSP. I’d hate it if we decided not to pick Daniel Norris because he’s at least three years away and we have so many lefties already.
I think after another 90+ loss season this year
Dayton may start getting desperate to show Glass and the fans some tangible MLB-level results and will focus on more “ready much sooner rather than later” guys in the 2011 and 2012 drafts. I hope I’m wrong.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Mar 23, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Except nobody he could draft would be ready soon enough to placate a potentially frustrated and impatient owner and fanbase. Any player you draft in 2011 isn’t likely to make it to the majors for more than a cup of coffee before 2013. So even if Moore is frustrated, impatient and worried about his job, this year’s draft isn’t going to help the team in 2012 and likely won’t make a big impact in 2013 (if any). If short-term major league team performance is prioritized (say 2012-13), the the draft this year won’t help, and it will be mostly on the shoulder of top prospects. Of course this issue does potentially have significant impacts on Moore/Glass’s FA spending this offseason.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 23, 2011 3:41 PM EDT up reply actions
Mike Leake
disagrees. So, Scott are we now in year 2014, before Dayton starts to be judged. Please tell me, exactly how long does he have to be an awful GM before you and people like you actually start holding this douchebag accountable.
by DaytonSucks on Mar 23, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
Are you kidding?
Have you read my writings on this site?
And is there anything in the comment of mine that you responded to which states or in any way suggests that it’s too soon to judge Moore?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 23, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Really.
Frankly, hardly anyone on this site is un-critical of DM, least of all you. In fact, I would say there’s almost an unspoken agreement among most all of the posters, here, that Moore has made his share of mistakes. But they/we also don’t jump on him irrationally, and give are willing to give credit when and where it’s due, so if that’s not ‘holding this douchebag accountable’, so be it.
"Today I did my good deed to be 'green'; I gathered up everything in my house that wasn't bio-degradable...and I threw it out." - Todd Jordan, Denver comic
by setupunchtag on Mar 24, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
At what point
Do we stop pretending that Hochevar doesn’t suck. Guy is brutal. Not Kendall brutal, but Scott Elarton-lite.
No, he really doesn't suck.
His ERA sucks. Other, more meaningful stats in evaluating pitcher performance and talent suggest that he pitches at the level of an ok 3/4 starter.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 23, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Just admit it
McKinney, you know you are a Dayton apologist. Your Dayton Incompetence Tournament proved it beyond any reasonable doubt. We all know you worship the ground Dayton spits on.
Well, it suggests that he might in the future anyway
If the goal of a pitcher is to limit the opponent’s scoring, Hoch has done a pretty crappy job to date. His K:BB and GB:FB rates suggest that some of the crappiness might have been due to luck or other factors that aren’t apparent in the stats, but the crappiness definitely happened.
but the crappiness definitely happened
If “the crappiness” refers to runs scoring while he’s pitching, then yes it did happen. But of course that isn’t just about what the pitcher did. It also has a lot to do with the defense behind him. And to some extent, on some of the relievers that came behind him. But if you look at what the pitcher himself did, then Hochevar hasn’t sucked. And no I don’t think a poor ERA suggests that he will suck in the future.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Mar 25, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Hochevar will have an above average defense behind him to start the year.
If his ERA still does not fall then he might just suck.
Go Royals!
I will take the over
and at 3 and half, I might give you odds.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
So far you're right on all of them but #10
since they’ve already picked up Treanor and Suppan. However, they did so at minimal expense.
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