Kansas City Royals Playoff Chances? Still Low
Despite a surprising 6-3 start, the Royals still appear to be mathematical long-shots to win the American League Central. Very long shots. The chances of winning the Wild Card are even lower.
Baseball Prospectus has run a playoff odds report for a number of years now, and it is a good barometer of a team's chances. The simulator works in three steps. First, what is the team's true talent level? Second, what is their record thus far and how many games are remaining? Third, if we simulate a million seasons with that data, how often does that team make the playoffs?
Right now, according to BP's numbers, the Royals have just a 0.5% chance of winning the division, a one in two hundred shot. Relatedly, the Royals have almost no chance of snagging the Wild Card, which is predicted to be much more difficult to attain than an AL Central crown. Overall, the chance of a Royal October is just 0.6%. Chicago wins the division 54% of the time, followed by 19% by Detroit and 15.3% by Minnesota.
There are three reasons why the number for the Royals is so low:
- Baseball Prospectus's expectations of the Royals are extremely low. They see the Royals as just a .415 club. The Royals weren't just predicted to be bad, they were predicted to be one of the worst teams in baseball. If you make the Royals, say, a .450 team, their chances of making a miracle run to the playoffs would probably become something like 9-10%. That's a pretty huge difference. So if you are a Royals fan and you want to be optimistic, that's your route right there.
- The Royals are just 6-3. Yea, that's nice and yea we're happy about that, but 6-3 is just 6-3. It's not an incredible record and it isn't many games. It's not like the Royals are 12-3... yet.
- The AL Central is off to a decent start. Cleveland is 7-2. The White Sox, more importantly, are 6-3 as well, and Chicago was the BP computer's pick to win the division. The Royals, despite their glorious start, don't have any lead at all over the White Sox, who are better. Had Ozzie's boys pulled a Boston and started poorly, the division would already look quite different.
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I'll offer a few reasons for optimism (offensively, anyway):
1) Gordon and Butler have become legit 3-4 hitters, forming one of the better duos in the league. (Not entirely unfeasable)
2) Getz’ use of a bigger bat somehow has transformed him into an OK hitter
3) Betemit (assuming he has won back the 3B job) has actually blossomed into a hitter somewhat like we saw last year
Now, if you ask for optimism about the rotation, I’d be able to mention Jeff Francis, but I might have to stop after that.
So, yeah, it’s possible expectations of a 67-70 win season were low, and their true expectation should be 75-78 or so.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Did you forget the sarcasm font?
I believe until I don’t
by Nighthawk at the Diner on Apr 11, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Oddly enough, I think it's on the offense
Since we already know the pitching won’t be good (although how bad, of course, is a factor). But the encouraging thing is that the offense is continuing the theme of the Spring and scoring — and they’ll need it. If the Royals can stay something north of 5.0 runs/game, they’ll be able to compensate for some of the poor starts from the rotation.
And yes, that would mean that: 1) Gordon stays the course as a good hitter, something above .800 OPS, 2) Betemit hits something like last year and gets on pace for a full season’s worth of plate appearances, 3) Getz isn’t horrible, 4) Either Aviles or Kila find a way to offensive competence
Lots of ifs…but not impossible, methinks.
You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.
1 in 200?
So BP’s sayin there’s a chance.
Chiefs Might
by chicks_love_chiefs on Apr 11, 2011 1:22 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Think there was a typo on #2
The Royals are just 6-3. Yea, that’s nice and yea we’re happy about that, but 6-3 is just 6-3. It’s not an incredible record and it isn’t many games. It’s not like the Royals are 12-3… yet.
I assume it was supposed to read 18-11
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Apr 11, 2011 1:27 PM EDT reply actions 3 recs
^This^
Follow me on twitter @BryanAshlock
by Bryan Ashlock on Apr 11, 2011 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions
For this year,
I really don’t think KC has the pitching to stay in the mix once summer hits. But it’d be fun if the Royals beat the odds and finish closer to .500 than the awful team they were predicted to be.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
do you think...
it’s possible that if the Royals are actually in it in June (say, within 2 games of the Central lead) they bring up both Monty and Duffy and that both of those guys produce enough to help?
Nick Swisher is handsome.
As usual, my hopes are simply that
The Royals are competetive, which to me translates to about a .450 winning percentage and above.
You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.
1 in 200? I like those odds.
VCU had a 1 in 800 chance of making it to the Final Four. So the Royals making the playoffs is 4 times more likely!
I like the way you think
Hating Zack Greinke irrationally since 2010.
by royaldaddy on Apr 11, 2011 4:46 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I do have to say that being 6-3 is a lot better than being 2-6
which has been our MO in the past.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
i will be happy with 73 wins
at this point, i have more stake in how the MiLB teams perform
Waiting for April.
Yep
I predicted 75 wins before the season, and I’m sticking with it. I’m not raising the bar yet.
Now with 30% less snark!
Right
I went with 70-72 wins with a possiblity of 75-76 if they outperfom their pythag. I’m gonna wait until they’ve played at least 1/4th of the season before I consider revising that.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 11, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Do these pojections take into account that WE PLAY THE GAME THE RIGHT WAY
in other news, the Royals lead the American League in walks, with 39.
Waiting for April.
what parallel universe have I just wandered into?
the Royals lead the American League in walks, with 39
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
This is a miracle
the Royals lead the American League in walks, with 39.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
What about Billy's streak of series's with a hit.
Biggest record in baseball
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 11, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe Nick Markakis
holds that record
by don_jerovanni on Apr 12, 2011 11:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Obviously these odds have not made adjustments for the arrival of
TREANOR!
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Those dorks and their computers could never
come up with a fancy-pants equation for that kind of grit and leadership anyway.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Apr 11, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Treanor
has certainly been worth a few wins so far, as has Pena.
by Jim Fetterolf on Apr 11, 2011 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions
imagine where we would be if old what's his name was behind the plate
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
you people are haters!
"Shot by my own men."
by StonewallPDS on Apr 11, 2011 2:34 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Odds
“First, what is the team’s true talent level?”
Good question. How do you quantify Kila, Getz, Escobar, Crow, Collins, Adcock, Jeffress, even Francis after his surgery? That’s 1/3rd of the hitters and over a third of the pitching staff. The computer was fed guesstimates instead of useful data, so probably the result is little more than opinion at this point, reflecting the opinion of the guy who projected the above talent. Right now I would guess 75 wins minimum, 90 wins maximum, and the likely range of 80-85, just with the current team preforming as they are.
80-85 is likely?!?!
Pass me some of that RC Kool-aid. Ain’t no way in hell one can expect 85 wins from this group.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Apr 11, 2011 2:56 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
Didn't you watch Bruce Chen's last start?
I expect that from him everytime now, Cy Young baby!
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Wait until Suppan and Mazzarro have to start making starts every 5 days.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 11, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't think it appreciably changes things
Rotation = not good without them, rotation still = not good with them. The Royals will still only win games for the most part by outscoring their opponents and relying on the bullpen to keep the opposition from scoring more than the starters allow.
You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.
80-85
is reasonable given better defense and better team speed. Escobar and Treanor have been good for a couple of wins so far, bullpen’s fine, Yost seems to have a clue. 18-11, Awwwwk! Just getting rid of Greinke should be worth five wins this year over last.
by Jim Fetterolf on Apr 11, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Getting rid of one of the best pitchers in baseball will be worth 5 wins? How are you arriving at that conclusion? Or should I be reading sarcasm into your comment?
Greinke
Ten wins last year, Royals won a third of his starts, he admitted he had Larry Johnson syndrome and just mailed it in. Zach had one good year as a starter in his career and it was great, and it wasn’t last year. He may be great again, but we got the return of our ace, Master Chen, so we’re better off and five wins is reasonable as the difference between winning a third of Greinke’s starts last year and half the comparable starts this year. I doubt his replacement could do worse. Then we have Francis as an upgrade over Meche, plus Davies is on a short leash as a starter. Overall starters look to be ten games better than last year with plenty of ammo in Omaha.
by Jim Fetterolf on Apr 11, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Greinke mailing it in, is still 100x better than Master Chen.
Dammit Jim, we’re Royals fans, not Royal homers!
I mean, you can’t really base wins and losses squarely on the pitcher. If the Royal offense doesn’t score any runs every time Pitcher A pitches, and he only gives up 1 run, he still loses every game. Now Pitcher B gives up 5 runs every game, but the Royals score 6 every time, so he wins all his games. Which pitcher would you rather have? Wins/Losses are pretty much luck for pitchers.
Master Chen
won 14 games last year with a lower ERA. And his head is in the game. If we have Zack this year and lose ten straight, is he still Zack or is he Davies? Greinke was kind of the poster child for last year, Who Cares on the mound, Why Bother on the base paths, and Not My Yob in the field. I think GMDM may be listening to Pioli across the parking lot about the “right” players rather than the best. How’s Zack doing so far this year?
by Jim Fetterolf on Apr 11, 2011 10:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't even
Chen lucked out pretty hard last year, whereas Greinke actually pitched well and got screwed by KC’s awful defense.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
Exactly.
ERA is very misleading. If you look at their xFIP stat it’s not even close:
Greinke: 3.60
Chen: 4.79
And if you don’t know what FIP and xFIP are, look them up here:
Pitcher wins
are an archaic and ineffective way of measuring their contribution to a team.
"Do they have people that tall in Mexico?"
Well you are never gonna get taken seriously over here with these kinds of posts.
Better defense and team speed doesn’t give you an additional 15 wins. This team likely is better than last year’s team. Nothing wrong with saying that…but saying they are a 85 win team. No way.
…and your thoughts on Greinke are just too ridiculous to consider.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Apr 11, 2011 11:40 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Taken Seriously
“but saying they are a 85 win team. No way.”
This is actually what I said: “Right now I would guess 75 wins minimum, 90 wins maximum, and the likely range of 80-85,” Should I take your reading comprehension abilities seriously?
“…and your thoughts on Greinke are just too ridiculous to consider.”
Greinke’s record last year and confession that he was mailing it in may be ridiculous to you, but seem useful information to me. As I asked above, if the Royals had hit a ten game losing streak this year, could we have expected Zack to, once more, turn into Davies? Would that be 100x’s better than Master Chen? I’ll stand by my posts, but thanks for the chuckles, Kay.
by Jim Fetterolf on Apr 12, 2011 12:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Your reading comprehension is going to get questioned with responses like this.
What else are we supposed to take away from your post other than that you think the Royals are likely a .500 team? “and the likely range of 80-85” means you think they will be .500 or slightly better, up to 85 wins. I’m not sure this team could put together a 90 win season if all the players had career years, yet that’s your max! Crazy!
I think .5% is pretty low.
Let’s just look at the other teams in the division:
Chicago: was my pick to win the division and they still are. But are they 100x better than the Royals? If they played it out 200 times, they win 108 times and the Royals win once. That seems a bit drastic to me. Frickin’ Buerlhle (sp?) and most of their pitching looks old or hurt or both. And their bully isn’t very good. Adam Dunn and co are gonna hit a ton of homers especially at that ballpark. Again, my pick to win the division, but just I don’t think they are the 27 Yankees and the Royals are the well, the Royals.
Detroit: I don’t think they are very good. Ignore the huge payroll. They have Miggy who I think might be the best hitter in the game and Vmart. Mags or Boesh hitting 3rd doesn’t scare me at all. Porcello is basically Luke Hochevar. Verlander is very durable and good. And their bullpen has some live arms, but they never seem to be healthy. I look at them as being a near 500 team.
Minnesota: I’ve watched this team for years and can’t figure out how they win. I don’t think their starting pitching is above average, or their bullpen. And their hitters don’t have any power. One of these days, teams are gonna figure out that their starting pitchers are gonna throw 85 down the middle-you should swing. Maybe that day is this year.
Cleveland: They have won 7 straight w/o getting much from their best player (Choo) Glad I drafted Pujols and Choo 1-2. I really don’t have much to add from them. I don’t know any of their pitchers but Carmona who had 1 bad start and 1 good start.
I thought they would be worse than KC, but according to my math they have a 12% chance at the division vs KC’s .5%. Again, seems like a wide gap between two fairly equal squads. I know they have two relievers named Perez.
KC: Best case scenerio that doesn’t involve Butler hitting 400 or Gordon hitting 40 bombs:
Ok, Francis stays healthy all year and is basically a good #2 guy. Hochevar has more good games than bad- and is basically a solid #3. Chen stays consistent and eats up a bunch of innings. They move Davies to the bullpen where he becomes a lights out set up man for Soria. They stretch out Crow and make him the 5th starter by the 2nd half and he does pretty decent in that role. Or much better than Davies. Montgomery or someone else tears up minor leagues comes up to the majors and is a force. Something like a 8-2 2nd half record with a 3 ERA. So far, so good.
Betemit proves that all he needed was regular playing time and he mashes and plays good enough defense to play 3rd. Aviles needed that kick in the rear, wakes up, starts to lay off that low and outside pitch and pushes Getz to the bench. Butler doesn’t hit 20 homers, but mashes 50 doubles to go along with his 300/400 avg and ob%
Gordon hits 280/350 with 25 homers. Cain lights up AAA and forces Melky or Frenchy out and then hits just enough at the big level- but really frustrates other teams on the basepaths. Escobar plays superb defense at SS all season. Some say the best they’ve seen since Ozzie in a Padre uniform. But Jeter wins the gold glove. Oh, and Kendall never comes back.
I give them a much better chance than .5%.
I am thinking 1-2% for sure.
Stuck following the Royals since 1976.
Just curious … since BP uses statistical data to make projections of how good/bad a team really is (based on “past performance is best predictor of future behavior” logic) and that obviously is more important than any grit/chemistry/etc factor, what is BP’s past performance in terms of ranking and projecting winners/finishes?
If we get to 12-3,
or 15-5, what then? Even if the SP is at best sucktastic, the offense continutes to hit and score runs, and get on base, do their chances increase? Does the mindset change about this years team?
I’m not saying this team will get to 15-5, just asking what if?
I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
It would have to increase, then
Because more games have been played and they continue to win at a good clip. They still wouldn’t be good at all, but I’m sure they’d find a way to raise it to something like 8-10%.
You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.
You would have to adjust expectations at that point.
Let’s say you thought this was a true talent 65 win team (.401 winning percentage), and they go 15-5 in their first 20. Refigure your prediction for the last 142 games at .401 win pct, that’s 57 wins, add that to 15, and they are now a 72 win team.
If you thought they were a true talent 72 win team, by the same math above, they are now a 78 win team.
Though if they start 15-5, you almost have to reevaluate if you have their true talent pegged too low. They’d still be outperforming expectations, but perhaps they would be closer to .500 than we thought?
Pitching
The SP is weak, no question. But if Francis holds together and pitches to his talent level while Hoch steps up as a number 3 guy I could see Montgomery showing up after the ASB on a team around .500 and being enough for the Royals to be playing meaningful baseball in August.
by BlueEyes_Austin on Apr 11, 2011 5:00 PM EDT reply actions
I know moustakas didn’t exactly blow it up in spring training, but he is still a likely midseason callup, and one of the best prospects in baseball. forget about betemit at third base. (maybe he can play second)
I don't think the question is installing Betemit at 3rd base all season
But more like, can he fill that spot for now, hit well there, and then bring something back in a trade. He doesn’t have much long-term value for the Royals at all.
You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.
Agreed...
Betemit and Francis might be our best bets at getting some decent prospects this summer. I don’t care if we are in 1st place, Francis is a ticking time bomb and Betemit hasn’t shown the ability to go a whole season of .800 plus baseball. I bet Melky and Francoeur also get shipped off and then Moustakis, Cain, Lough, and Montgomery are all called up. At least I hope that is what happens.
by I_Bleed_Red. on Apr 11, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I won't debate our 0.6% chance but..
Cleveland at 12%? Did I miss something.. The Royals have… a better bullpen, the best hitter(Butler), more power, and they play better defense.. Cleveland has a marginally better rotation..
Look.. I still believe this is at best a 75 win team.. but you can’t tell me that a team that any time they want could go with a lineup of Cain, Melky, Gordon, Butler, Hosmer, Moustakas, Escobar, Pena, and Getz.. with a rotation of Monty, Duffy, Lamb, Francis, and Hochevar.. wouldn’t have worse playoff odds than Cleveland by a factor of 12… Come on.
I haven't trusted BP since Silver left
Not that I really would feel comfortable trying to critique all of the formulas that they put into PECOTA, but their numbers have been kind of… “off” for a little while now, or at least that is how I feel. Maybe the White Sox really do have an over 50% chance of winning the division, but that just doesn’t sound quite right to me.
it will be very interesting to see
how we do against minnesota coming up…we have been getting a lot of walks, but as we all know, their pitchers come right after you and they have spanked us around pretty good of late.
if we can produce runs against minnesota, i’m not going to say we’re going to be over .500 or anything, but it will be a good sign that we can at least be competitive most of the year.
BOOM YOSTED!
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Apr 11, 2011 11:12 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
They look like professional players this year
I had them down for 67-68 wins, and I’m revising it upward to 71-72.
We need to keep in mind that this is a building year. Don’t rush the prospects now in order to win a couple of extra games in 2011. Think 2013-14, not this season.
Let’s hope that the team continues to play well so we can trade Melky, Frenchy, Betemit, Chen, and Francis. Actually, I’d keep Betemit unless we got a good offer.
Crow should get a shot at the rotation at midseason. O’Sullivan and Mazzaro should get their shots before that, just so we can see what we have in them. Ideally in August we’d have a rotation of Hochevar, Crow, O’Sully, Mazzaro, and whoever we don’t get rid of. That rotation would lose a lot of games this year, but at least one of those guys is going to be OK, and anything else is gravy.
Is Gordo for real? I sure hope he is. And Escobar and Getz are strong up the middle. Billy is going to hit .340.
Yo confío en Jack.
The beginning to this season has been fun
Enjoy it. I am. But don’t let a short term streak affect what you think. The Royals won 10 out of 13 once last year. There was actually a 54 game stretch (1/3 of the season) where they were 29-25. They famously started 18-11 2 years ago, causing Dayton Moore to believe that the 47-86 that followed was a 133 game aberration.
This is a team with a $36 million payroll. A team that has 5 starters who were probably not in the top 100 on paper a month ago. A team with question marks offensively at nearly every position (except Billy). A team that lost it’s best starter and most consistent offense/defense combined player from a year ago. The future is coming, but it is not here yet. They have mortgaged this year to help buy that future.
On the positive side, they quietly upgraded their fielding and their bullpen. They seem to have a positive attitude as a team. Whatever you think of Yost’s in game moves, he seems to have the managerial ability to get his team to buy in.
I don’t revise my pre season prediction until the end of April, and it only changes one or two games then. Talk to me on Memorial Day. Say I told you so at the end of July.
I am excited to see the team playing well, and I love seeing a winning record in the standings. I am excited for the future, but any 2011 vintage kool aid will remain untapped.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
"10 out of 13 once last year"
I looked and almost posted something similar. There were also a couple of other stretches that the Royals were 6-3 or better last year. The point is that even a bad team is capable of having 2 good weeks over the course of the year. I hope (and I believe) that we are better than last year, but a 6-3 start doesn’t mean any more than those stretches did last year.
All that said – I’ll be happy as long as it lasts!
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 12, 2011 5:32 PM EDT up reply actions





![Fresh on the heels of my award-winning 2008 Royals O-Swing Percentage Graph, here is a graph the O-Swing (percentage of pitches swung at outside of the strike zone) for all the teams of the AL Central from 2005-2008 by year, also compared to the MLB average. Remember -- this is for hitters, so lower is better.
(Maybe I [or someone else, of course] will do something like this for pitchers next week).
The results speak for themselvs, I guess, but they are saying all sorts of things. Discuss and enjoy!
For a larger version, click here (opens in new tab/window).
Consider this a humble appendix to the "Secrets of the AL Central" series.
All data via FanGraphs, of course.](http://cdn0.sbnation.com/fan_shot_images/31963/file_small.jpg)














