Ryan Franklin Rattles the Cardinals Fans' Birdcage
Oh, Ryan Franklin. It's hard not to love you. After getting booed by the home fans in St. Louis this afternoon, Franklin had this to say about the famed Cardinals Nation:
You don’t boo your own team. [...] They are supposed to be the best fans in baseball. Yeah right.
I love that he used the old best fans in baseball shibboleth, because Cardinals fans take their fandom seriously. Which is to say they take themselves seriously. Wow, Ryan, way to close with a dagger. Your hideous facial hair hides a rhetorical genius.
Why are the Cardinals fans the best? It's never been clear or perfectly logical. They draw well, but not superlatively so. They have a regional fanbase, like about six other teams. No, it's all tied up in the cult of LaRussa at this point. They're supposed to be "the best fans in baseball" because they appreciate the sacrifice bunt, the hit & run, the double switch, the lefty specialist, etc. Nevermind that every mainstream baseball fan loves these things. Listen to postgame call-in shows from Baltimore to Seattle and you'll hear the same complaints and the same concerns. The AM dial might as well be renamed the "Score Runners from 3rd with less than Two Outs or Die" side of the dial. Nevermind the messy matter that these are often counter-productive strategies. The louder you can cheer on your team being traditional and hidebound, the better you are. And trust me, this memo has certainly gotten out.
Now, I happen to think Franklin is, on the whole, wrong here. Fans should be able to boo. However, he does have a point that there is something of a contradiction within the conventional wisdom on this point. I'm always annoyed when Player X joins Team Y at the Trade Deadline, and, when he promptly gets a warm or even a standing ovation during his first game with the new team, everyone goes crazy about what a unique and tremendous showing of fandom this is. I heard those lines on Baseball Tonight and during telecasts about Jason Bay in Boston and Larry Walker in St. Louis and Cliff Lee in the twenty places he's been. Again, everyone does this. In everything. When I got a job adjuncting in an English Department I was the new guy for about five minutes and everyone was really nice to me. That must have been the best department in America! Really, the only people that don't do this are professional jerks in prisons or fraternities or boarding schools or whatever. But rounding back to the point, if irrational devotion does mean great fandom, then you really have to maintain that lest you lose the title.
And yes, Franklin has already semi-recanted. Oh well, we'll always have yesterday.
Finally, you know who the best fans in baseball really are? Or were? How about the five thousand people that truly cared about the Expos at the end? Or the same number of die-hards in Florida, watching the Marlins. Terrible stadiums, huge roster turnover, no cache to the team, terrible (actually the same) ownership, etc. The Marlins may not have as many fans, but they have fans. So do the A's. And they're all the better because, unlike Cubs fans or Cardinals fans or Red Sox fans, they've never turned their love for their team into a meta-self-reflexive love for themselves. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by being a Marlins fan. Nothing but the actual game itself, which is supposed to be the point.
It may be fun and romantic to imagine an America of stunning regional diversity, where every county brings a new adventure and every state has her own dialect. Sadly, it is much more uniform and boring than that, especially in sports. I'd love it if there was some fanbase out in the back of beyond that thought all pitchers should walk people to start the inning and the only offensive stat they cared about was triples. Unfortunately, we are all much too similar. The difference between the best fanbase in baseball and the worst... might, might be 5%. Five percent of whatever bogus quality we are looking for. I can grant that the Cardinals have great fans. "The best" however, is saying too much.
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I need to leave St. Louis
So tired of Cardinals fans
by NotAHippie on Apr 21, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I go to school about an hour and a half away from St. Louis
They drive me nuts. I can’t stand the whole city of St. Louis. They say I envy them. I don’t. I ask how many of them would remain Cardinals fans if the team had 25+ years of sucktitude like the Royals. They all said they only cheer for winners and then they yell at me when I say they are bandwagon fans. They are fans because it’s the ‘hip’ thing to do.
I will NEVER live in St. Louis. They think that people owe them something just because they live in St. Louis. They think St. Louis is God’s gift to America. I could talk hours about how annoying they are.
Nothing made me happier than a couple summers back when me and some buddies went to the Cards/Royals games in St. Louis. Nothing made me happier than when a Cards fan would try and talk trash, only to be shown that he was wrong by me and my friends. Turned out, we knew more about their team than they did.
Suck it, St. Louis. I’m enjoying this better record than them for the short while it may last.
now stepping down from my soap box
And Todd Haley said, "Let there be wins," and there were wins;
And Todd Haley saw the wins, and it was good.
by NaturalsLight on Apr 21, 2011 12:56 AM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
This is a great soap box rant
and one that is very true. My favorite part about most of the people from St. Louis who think they live in the Garden of Eden is that they actually live in the suburbs. The actual city of St. Louis blows, and it has for years. Every kid whose parents fled the city to the suburbs thinks that they still live in St. Louis, even though they really live in Wentzville.
by Connor Moylan on Apr 21, 2011 2:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Futhermore
I also hate how the first question that is asked when you meet someone from there is, “So where did you go to high school?” Does it really matter? And what is up with ‘St. Louis-Style Pizza?’ AND, don’t yell at me and make fun of me for saying ‘pop’ instead of ‘soda.’ Just because people in St. Louis call it soda, doesn’t mean its the right way for everyone. I don’t make fun of you because you call it soda. (Interestingly enough, I did a psychology paper on the whole Soda v. Pop. Got an A, just because the teacher was from Washington and was also sick of people from St. Louis.)
I digress since I am getting off the main topic at hand. I don’t really believe in the whole booing unless it is justified (i.e. Manny quiting on the BoSox when he no longer wanted to play there). Sure, you might be a little dissatisfied at the player or results, but it’s not like they aren’t trying their hardest.
With that all being said, I do have a lot of really good friends from the St. Louis area, but as a whole, people from St. Louis are pompous assholes.
And Todd Haley said, "Let there be wins," and there were wins;
And Todd Haley saw the wins, and it was good.
by NaturalsLight on Apr 21, 2011 4:02 AM EDT up reply actions
STL Pizza is the worst food in the entire world.
My mom had an event or something over there, picnic of some sort, and I went along with her a few years back. They had Imo’s catered in and I had never had it and was curious. It was awful, tasted bad and pretty sure it made me sick, didn’t enjoy the exit it made later on, bleh.
End of Line.
by TheSmokingPun on Apr 21, 2011 5:28 AM EDT up reply actions
And it is ridiculously priced
For the shitty quality and lack of food. A $20 Imo’s Pizza will last me all of one meal. A $5 Domino’s (that tastes MUCH better) will last me 3.
And Todd Haley said, "Let there be wins," and there were wins;
And Todd Haley saw the wins, and it was good.
by NaturalsLight on Apr 21, 2011 6:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I like St. Louis quite a bit
But there does seem to be an attitude that St. Louis is still as great as it was in the early 20th century when it hosted the Olympics and World’s Fairs and was among the biggest cities in America. It has declined sharply since then and I don’t think anyone has told St. Louis.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I need clarification:
What constitutes a St. Louis Pizza?
by RoyalCreole on Apr 21, 2011 10:07 AM EDT up reply actions
Thin crust, only mozzarella, almost zero sauce
Crust is like cardboard, very dry yet not enjoyably crispy, cheese is low grade & bland. Basically the worst pizza in the world.
Last time I was there got talked into getting IMO’s, when it came in and I expressed my disgust here was the reaction from 2 locals I was eating with, “Oh, well, I just cover it in Ranch.” #2 “Well no wonder you don’t like it, look at all the ingredients you added to it,” I apparently had the audacity to request tomatoes and peppers on it.
I actually had #2 write down that quote and sign it as evidence of just how stupid and tasteless St.Louis people are.
Does my rant answer your question???
by Your_Moms_Boyfriend on Apr 21, 2011 10:35 AM EDT up reply actions
It's not mozzarella but Provel
which is a processed cheese
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provel_cheese
It tastes different from mozzarella, which makes STL-style pizza taste different from ordinary thin-ish crust pizza (like the king of all pizzas, New Haven-style).
I like Imo’s fine (haven’t sampled it from other places, though)…if you have strict definitions of what pizza ought to be like, you might not like it.
by mikewormdog on Apr 21, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions
Seconded
And, it’s cheap. A large pizza and an order of wings was enough to fill up me and 3 friends for only $5/person
And Todd Haley said, "Let there be wins," and there were wins;
And Todd Haley saw the wins, and it was good.
by NaturalsLight on Apr 21, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
Giordano's
and Edwardo’s, etc. are wonderful, filling feasts,
but the best-tasting pizza is from New Haven…Sally’s, Pepe’s, are the best and many others in East and West Haven (Zuppardi’s, Grand, Modern, Tolli’s) really good, too. My brother in Chicago still brings up how great Frank Pepe is. You need to go there to try it…the real NY places (like Patsy’s, John’s, Lombardi’s, etc.) are somewhat similar, but New Haven’s best is a little better.
Taste like spagettios to me
I don’t get the appeal either
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 21, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't St. Louis Style cut weird as well?
Like in squares instead of triangle slices? If that’s their claim to fame, I’ll take my Minskey’s or Fun House pie any day of the week.
When I think of St. Louis, all I can think of is how ridiculous it was that they have the St. Louis Cardinals Baseball team, and had the St. Louis Cardinals …Football team. (Really, you can’t change the name?!?!?!) It’s not like other teams that move to new cities haven’t changed their name before (cough cough Chiefs / Texans cough)
And they can’t even cook BBQ correctly, they have to grill it or simmer it in sauce till it’s done…..Ridiculous. (In case anyone wants to extol me on the virtues of STL bbq, look at the store, everyone carry’s KANSAS CITY style BBQ sauce…not STL style BBQ sauce)
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
Yep. Squares.
As if they’re bastardization of pizza isn’t enough, they go all late term abortion on it and cut it into squares.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 21, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
St Louis is a wannabe Chicago (and failing miserably at it)...
so they automatically and wrongly assume that KC is a wannabe St Louis. I’m not sure what KC wants to be (which is a problem in and of itself), but I don’t think it’s St Louis.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
by setupunchtag on Apr 21, 2011 11:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm on board with this
I wish KC would celebrate its birth of Rock N Roll roots more. KC has just been about bbq and jazz, but if u look in the history books, the jump blues of KC jazz/blues clubs was heard round the world and morphed into R n R. Wynonie Harris, who is credited with the first R n R song is from KC (he recorded it in Cleveland). Yes, the Midwest might have created R n R. Wild. I know we celebrate blues and bbq and all that. Just wish we combined it all together in a prideful, bigger way.
Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.
by PhattStairs on Apr 21, 2011 11:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Pretty sure Wynonie was from Omaha. But he damn sure rules it.
There are about a thousand “first R n R songs”.
Julia Lee was from KC. Not really RnR, but good salacious RnB fun.
by tobynotjason on Apr 21, 2011 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Big Joe Turner
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 21, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
tes, Harris was originally from Omaha
and hit it big when he went out to Cali, if I recall from my readings of late (I’m a huge “old music” buff … love all those older guys, the jump and swing and blues)
much fun in those songs … definitely early rock (and the use of the word rock (if not roll) in a lot of those tunes)
damn that’s some good chit
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
Phatt, to me it's a shame the R&R HoF is in Cleveland instead of KC
we had so much rock and jump and swing and blues back in the day … granted Chicago was a bigger base for pure blues, but KC had such a fantastic micx of so many gentres, especially the Jump/RnB that became RnR
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
the best thing about kc
in my mind is that the people here seem comfortable with what kinda city we are. we’re a small big city. st louis is also a small big city…although, after talking to a handful of st louisians, you’d think they were from an awesomely large city
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions
KC is what Denver would be without the mountains
except KC does it right and is far less crowded
Winner: 2009 Nostradamus of Arrowhead Pride Award
"I shall conquer untruth by truth" - Mahatma Gandhi
"It's always easier to sell 'em some shit than it is to give 'em the truth" - Shel Silverstein, The Perfect High
hi, Mo! 5 minutes!!!
As a long-suffering Royals fan who lives 5 hours from KC
and can only get to a couple games a year, I’d say the loyal fans in the KC area who continued to buy season tickets or otherwise support the team during the last 25 years in the desert have to rank up there with the best fans in baseball. (I’m not trying to be a shameless kiss-ass, I really mean it. 25 years!!)
It’s easy to be a “great fan” when you have a winning team. Show up to watch a crappy team on a cold April night (or an insanely hot Sunday afternoon) and you’ve actually proved something.
As for Ryan Franklin: STFU you spoiled whiner.
by Black and Gold on Apr 21, 2011 12:52 AM EDT reply actions
It’s easy to be a "great fan" when you have a winning team.
Agreed. It’s also easy to show up when it becomes the hip/cool thing to do. The Cardinals game I’ve been to… well, they aren’t alone in this, but let’s just say the Red Sox Pink Hat Nation isn’t a unique phenomenon.
I don’t hate Cardinals fans. I hate Cardinals fans telling me how great they are.
*Throws up gang sign*
Gets tomatoed
End of Line.
by TheSmokingPun on Apr 21, 2011 1:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I hear you bro- im down in south east mo
5 hour drive to go to KC but I do it if not I’m on MLB extra inninings.. And my neighbors hate my 1985 WS Flag that is posted next to the American flag at my house
.......Just a beer drinking KC Chiefs & KC Royals fan.......
POWDER BLUE BOMBERS!!!!!
by Mas Cervezas on Apr 21, 2011 8:44 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Cardinals fans
= KU basketball fans
And I say that as a proud KU fan.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 21, 2011 9:07 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
I was gonna say this, but didn't know how it would play...
Or how to explain it…I am torn becuz half of MU fans are STL fans and half of Royals fans are KU fans…I don’t like the MU/KU discussions sometimes becuz I feel it muddies the point behind an argument
Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.
by PhattStairs on Apr 21, 2011 12:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Nor do I..
If somebody wants to briefly say something neutral or positive about the school they went to or whatever, that’s fine. Once it gets into the same cheap shots we’ve heard for years, it just gets everybody irritated and distracts from why we’re all here to begin with.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 12:14 PM EDT up reply actions
This is why on RR I like to equate Cardinals fans with Nebraska fans.
There’s a hate we all can get behind.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 21, 2011 12:33 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree with this
I think KU fans can be a wee bit pompous when it comes to BBall (I’m a Jayhawk) but we definately don’t pat ourselves on the back and proclaim that we are the best fans in the sport like Brasky. Tho, AFH is pretty special…
Pour yourself a Tim Collins
as a nebraska fan i think alot of the most awesome fans in sports are ridiculous....
but there’s far more evidence to support nebraska fans being awesome than there is for cardinals fans.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
that's for sure
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 21, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions
hahahahha
Not every NU fan, I certainly don’t mean any one on RR.
Obviously there is a Venn diagram out there, and the spot were NU fans and Royal fans overlap is far away from the NU/Cardinal fan.
..but you being an NU fan realize that the exact sentiment we are discussing are engraved in stone at the NU stadium.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 21, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions
I know. Just wanted to make sure none of you NU folk on here
think I don’t like ya.
You guys cool.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 22, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
some Cards fan based in KC flew his colors on 610 around 5:45ish
talking about how bad the KC fans really were, then saying that Kauffman Stadium prices were too high. Blah blah blah. It’s $10. Is it any worse than the charge to park around Busch?
And the cult of LaRussa thing is exaggerated, a portion of the fans dislike him for some reason. Despite the whole thing where he’s a successful manager who has won for 15 years there.
And judging by the SBNation bio, Ryan Franklin is from Fort Smith, Alaska.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Sponsor, 2011 Royals Alumni Fantasy Camp/Royals 5th Starter Star Search
FWIW, when I went to Busch a couple years ago
We parked in a nearby garage for $5.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 8:47 AM EDT up reply actions
I park in a shitty little lot across from the Wyndham Hotel on the third base side.
It’s $10 with no security and homeless dudes all over the place, but it’s less than a block from the third base gate. We had a thread awhile back about how STL people are huge assholes. I’m too lazy to look it up, but it needs reviewed after this. Pretty good stuff.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
and couldnt tailgate....
fuck that place….luckily i still have a buddy with an awesome roof for tailgating about 4 blocks away
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions
no matter how dumb his reasoning is....
and it is dumb….im now a ryan franklin fan. anyone who calls out the cardinals and/or their fans is someone i can get behind….i like brandon phillips now as well.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 2:20 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
I like Phillips and Johnny Cueto too.
Cards fans bitching about the Reds not fighting fair last fall? It’s a fight! They’re so fucking ignorant they think that there are rules to a damn bench clearing brawl. Tell that to Robin Ventura!
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 10:18 AM EDT up reply actions
I now actually feel sorry for Robin. I guess the White Sox and Rangers were in a semi war at the time.
The White Sox declared that whoever was hit next would charge the mound and the rest of the team would back them up. Robin just happened to be that guy.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 21, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
Still one of the best baseball videos ever.
He got worked! I love that one, the Randy Johnson vaporizing the pidgeon or seagull, the Clemens/Piazza bat throwing thing, and Pedro rolling Don Zimmer. Might make me an asshole, but they always make me laugh.
I immediately felt sorry for Ventura. If he was the guy that drew the short straw, then I feel even more sorry for him.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
I never want anyone to get hurt,
but I do love watching bench clearing brawls. It’s what makes hockey exciting!
Underrated player, too
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Apr 21, 2011 11:15 AM EDT up reply actions
All fans everywhere are pretty much the same
The question is how many there are. St. Louis has a lot of fans because they hold most of Missouri, as well as southern Illinois, Arkansas, and northeast Oklahoma, and St. Louis is a larger metro area than KC anyway. They don’t know any more about baseball than anybody else; there are just more of them.
Also, there’s more conflict with them because St. Louis is the only team the Röyals have a defined boundary with; KC has northwest Missouri and St. Louis the rest. The Rangers probably dominate most of Oklahoma, but Dallas is far away. Denver’s far away, too, with virtually no population between the Wichita-Salina line and the Front Range to cause a conflict. The Cubs control most of Iowa, but that’s just sort of a given, and they don’t extend any farther west or south. Chicago’s a long way off, too. All of those boundaries are amorphous.
We dislike them more than other fans because they’re the closest and there are more of them.
Yo confío en Jack.
I think along with that is the fact that they are an 'older team'
For instance, my dad is a Cardinals fan (although I force him to watch the Royals and he doesn’t complain). BUT, the only reason he is a Cards fan is because when he was growing up, the Royals weren’t a team. The only team he ever read/listened to (this was pre-TV days) was the Cardinals.
Now, my Mom on the other hand, is from New England, and her Red Sox fandom has rubbed off on me. My college graduation present will be a trip to Fenway to see the Red Sox, hopefully against a team other than the Royals so I don’t feel extremely guilty. Hate on me if you would like, I’m open to all criticism ;-)
And Todd Haley said, "Let there be wins," and there were wins;
And Todd Haley saw the wins, and it was good.
by NaturalsLight on Apr 21, 2011 6:34 AM EDT up reply actions
For a long time
St. Louis was the only team west of Chicago, and south of Washington. The Cards have developed a very deep base of fans throughout the Deep South, which explains much of their regional appeal.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
The Royals Developed
A huge regional following in the 70s. We were good, and there wasn’t another MLB team west of us that wasn’t on the California coast. Can you imagine if Finley had stayed in KC with that colorful gang that won 3 Series in a row?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Wow!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 21, 2011 12:06 PM EDT up reply actions
I Remained A
Follower, if not fan, of the Cards until the ‘85 Series. I have to admit I was blissfully unaware of the moran element in Cards Nation. It helped that they were really good when I was in grade school. They also had a lucid Harry Caray and Jack Buck doing their radio. Also, being in the NL, they presented no conflict with my KCAs fandon. There was no interleague play, and god knows the A’s weren’t ever in the Series back then.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 21, 2011 11:08 AM EDT up reply actions
I love that we've completely changed to the spelling of "moran"
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Is this politically motivated?
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Give it a little time.
Someone will post the pic of the STL fan and his sign.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Thanks.
I now have it saved for personal use as well…
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions
my dad and his best friend were huge cardinals fans....
my dad dropped that shit when we moved to kc, but his friend is still a die hard today…and we still exchange hateful text messages about every week about it
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm a Nebraska fan, and we pull this crap too.
I never really got the point of congratulating ourselves for being fans of athletic teams – especially good ones. But for some people, I think they wouldn’t bother being such intense fans if they thought they might not be the best at it.
But, since it is entirely self-anointed, I think Royals fans should somehow co-opt the name to ridicule the Cardinals. Like, “we’re the best fans in sports” or “the best baseball fans in Missouri” or “the best true fans in baseball”. I kind of like the last one.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Apr 21, 2011 8:24 AM EDT reply actions
No true Royals fan would boo his own team.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Apr 21, 2011 8:28 AM EDT up reply actions
I hardly ever boo anything...
but I booed Guillen when he lazily jogged to first base, and got put out when the 2B bobbled the ball. If he had hustled, he would have been safe.
In fact, that may be the only thing I ever boo – lack of effort.
Now with 30% less snark!
No true Royal lazily jogs to first base!
so you were in the right, there
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Apr 21, 2011 8:33 AM EDT up reply actions
I'll boo occasionally
I boo bush league plays and mental mistakes. I’d never boo a player that I thought was trying his best (for example Soria in the cold the last few games).
2011 Royals Review NCAA Bracket Challenge Winner, by process of attrition
Either
you are no true Royals fan or no true Royal makes bush league plays and menta mistakes. I’m not sure which.
by Trey Hillman's Chin on Apr 21, 2011 8:49 AM EDT up reply actions
God, would that get old...
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 10:19 AM EDT up reply actions
i think booing is stupid....
i prefer to insult my players and opposing players with actual words…. preferably spanish words
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes it is. And it's what makes the radio affiliate pieces must reads.
It may be fun and romantic to imagine an America of stunning regional diversity, where every county brings a new adventure and every state has her own dialect.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
See Ava, Missouri?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
My ex is from there
And a diehard Cardinals fan.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Exactly.
You should’ve known better than to marry someone who claims to be from a place called booger.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions
Didn't marry, fortunately.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions
That's a very good quote to highlight.
I’ve been traveling in the US in my work for the last 23 years, for about a week at a time in most of the major and middling cities, and though regional differences exist and are in some cases pronounced, sadly the nation has become awfully homogenous. In particular, fans and the radio talk shows are about the same pretty much anywhere you go.
That said, I don’t know how any group of fans can claim to be the best, when literally, their poster-boy is the “Get a brain, Morans!” guy.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
by setupunchtag on Apr 21, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
Gil Meche and Cliff Lee should give Ryan Franklin some advice
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
I was hoping you'd be all over this
And you did not disappoint me.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Inspired! Well said:
The Marlins may not have as many fans, but they have fans. So do the A’s. And they’re all the better because, unlike Cubs fans or Cardinals fans or Red Sox fans, they’ve never turned their love for their team into a meta-self-reflexive love for themselves. There is absolutely nothing to be gained by being a Marlins fan. Nothing but the actual game itself, which is supposed to be the point.
Pour yourself a Tim Collins
by labbadabba on Apr 21, 2011 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Greatest. Rant. Ever.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Props for the use of "shibboleth"
I'd rather be watching baseball.
by Sisquatch Kids on Apr 21, 2011 10:08 AM EDT reply actions 4 recs
Very interesting on the use of shibboleth and hiram on the message boards of recent days somewhat of a travelers speak or certain people I am brothers with
.......Just a beer drinking KC Chiefs & KC Royals fan.......
POWDER BLUE BOMBERS!!!!!
by Mas Cervezas on Apr 21, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I have noticed this as well.
Interesting connection to travelers speakage.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed
.......Just a beer drinking KC Chiefs & KC Royals fan.......
POWDER BLUE BOMBERS!!!!!
by Mas Cervezas on Apr 21, 2011 1:41 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
my take on the whole KC-STL thing:
I come from northwestern Missouri and have always rooted for the Royals. My dad’s reasoning was that the Royals were closer, so we rooted for the Cardinals as a secondary team because they were “in state” and he was in awe of Bob Gibson as a kid. We enjoyed a golden era when I was age 6-14 (1986-1994). The Royals had the original Scherholz rotation, Bo Knows, and Brett’s halcyon days. The Cardinals had fan favorites Tommy Herr, Jack Clark, Ozzie Smith, Jose Oquendo, and the likes. It was a golden era for baseball in Missouri.
I attended the University of Missouri in the fall of 1998 and had already sparked the hatred fire that burns in my belly for the Cardinals based on my over zealous Royals fandom with a little WGN-Harry-Carey-day-game-broadcasting expertise thrown in for good measure. The thing is…I had no distaste for the fans at the time because I had not yet looked Medusa in the eyes. I hadn’t experienced Cardinal fans in the flesh. I guess it didn’t help that my soon-to-be best friend I had met first was from Chicago, and embodied the spirit of Chicago so much that he garnered the nickname “Chicago”. It also didn’t help that St. Louis now had La Russa, who haunted the Royals with the A’s, and the magnificent soap opera acting of a one Fernando Vina.
After a few years at Missouri, meeting hundreds of people, I adopted this adage: “I’ve met roughly 100 people from St. Louis and 2 were cool. Out of the roughly 100 people I’ve met from Kansas City, 98 were cool.” I wasn’t a fan of the immediately judgmental attitudes of St. Louis fans that have been aforementioned.
I don’t know if this is some kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I have realized first-hand the stark differences the I-70 corridor harbors. Is it because St. Louis is a consistently winning team and seem to do it with scrap-heap role players that somehow find their groove in the STL (tell me Lance Berkman’s hot start wasn’t predicted by every single Royals fan)? Is it because of this that St. Louis fans have a built-in defense mechanism in that sort of we’re-in-the-midwest-and-winning-and-no-one-cares vein? I think the safe-at-first call, Pujols K.C. roots, La Russa’s strategies, MU/KU, and other issues are at play; but, I feel like we, Royals fans in general, feel there is some other kind of malice hiding behind the clouds of such lines as “Wheredya go ta skewl?” and “It ain’t pop u MORAN!”
Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.
by PhattStairs on Apr 21, 2011 10:20 AM EDT via mobile reply actions 3 recs
Very well said, sir.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 21, 2011 10:24 AM EDT up reply actions
In general, I find angry, contentious rivalries
(like KU-MU—or “Mizzou” to people on the STL side of MO; Royals-Cardinals) rather tiresome, especially when the only reason most people pick teams is due to an accident of birth. If I were born in St. Louis (like my wife was), I would have loved the Cardinals and cried at the result of the 1985 World Series rather than celebrated. In Kansas City, you generally pick sides if you don’t have ties to a college (my parents went to K-State, still probably my favorite of the 3; I went to Arkansas undergrad). As a kid, I picked MU over KU, but if I could pick again, it would probably be KU because of its superior library (seriously, Watson is way, way better than Ellis in the humanities especially, and the online catalog Voyager is a superior product to whatever crappy system Merlin/Mobius runs; when I came back here from my ivory tower, I really started feeling bad for the poor UM-system faculty/grad students).
Anyway, I would be suspicious of any St. Louisan who wasn’t a Cardinals fan, just like I would be with Kansas Citians who didn’t like the Royals. If upon further investigation it turned out that the person or person’s parents were from another city or something like that, then it would be fine. A bandwagon fan is problematic (like Lebron James’s love of the Yankees), unless there’s an interesting story behind it
People who don’t understand that other people have reasons for liking their teams that are just as valid or better than their own is where I see a problem. It’s a lot like irrational patriotism (like Belgium wouldn’t be my favorite country if I were from there).
Is there more jingoism in Cardinals Country than Royals Land? There are probably more dumb Cardinals fans than there are Royals fans mainly because there are more people who like the Cardinals than like the Royals. The Cardinals are also better right now (well, at least in terms of their position among their AAAA competition), so the bandwagon fans (the dumbest of all, usually) are more brash. I don’t know how I’d feel if the Royals were consistently good again and they had a regional/national following. We’d attract more “Morans.”
I’ve mentioned this before rather jokingly, but I still think there’s a bit of Catholic/Protestant contention going on as well between KC and STL.
by mikewormdog on Apr 21, 2011 11:52 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Good points, all of them.
I’ve heard that there are, in fact, Catholic connotations to the name “Cardinals” although I don’t know the details for sure.
I can’t speak as to St. Louis but I do think there’s some of the class thing associated with high schools in Kansas City. I grew up in Johnson County, and schools such as Olathe East, Blue Valley North indicated money; St. Thomas Aquinas or Rockhurst even more so. Schools like Olathe North, the opposite. Of course, it was largely unspoken; perhaps that is not the case in St. Louis.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 12:12 PM EDT up reply actions
"Cardinals" nickname came from the color cardinal
According to an etymological venn diagram (you can see it on flipflopflyball.com), the story of their name was that a lady remarked to a sportswriter “What a lovely shade of Cardinal” (she was commenting in 1899 on the then St Louis Perfectos. The sportswriter began using the nickname, and it caught on. FWIW – the color “cardinal” was invented/named after the color of the cassock worn by Catholic Cardinals.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
by loyal2sdad on Apr 21, 2011 2:06 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Had no idea. Thanks for clearing that up.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 3:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Agree
I like rivalries. I like the KU/MU rivalry. I absolutely detest when people make it a class war, a moral battle, or some sort of geographic superiority contest. Its two sports teams playing a game, not a morality play. I’ve lived on both sides of the state line and I can tell you there are nice people on both sides, and morons on both sides.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Apr 21, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
There are places where it's far, far worse than here.
Delaware and Delaware St. refusing to play each other in football and the accusations of it being over Delaware St. being a historically black school… all the racial sewage that came up during the Duke lacrosse case… BYU players facing polygamy chants whenever they play San Diego St.. we’re lucky to only have a good, old fashioned Border War.
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Indeed. It's just some good smooth hate'in.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 21, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions
was the namesake of BYU not a polygamist?
seems like a fair chant
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions
From reading this website, I can tell the high school question is commonly asked in STL
But I feel like I get asked all the time where I went to high school in Kansas City and I never considered it to have any elitist overtones.
there is a difference:
STL: “Wheredya go to skewl?”
“Oh, I went to Afton…I’m cooler…blah, blah, blah.”
KC: “Where did you go to school?”
“Oh, did you know so and so? That’s interesting.”
Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.
by PhattStairs on Apr 21, 2011 12:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
furthermore
STL: “Im from da Lu”
KC: " Im from KC MO"
@@@which sounds more ignorant@@@
.......Just a beer drinking KC Chiefs & KC Royals fan.......
POWDER BLUE BOMBERS!!!!!
by Mas Cervezas on Apr 21, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
reply fail...damn you sarcasm font.. damns you to hell!!
.......Just a beer drinking KC Chiefs & KC Royals fan.......
POWDER BLUE BOMBERS!!!!!
by Mas Cervezas on Apr 21, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you nailed this
The question in KC is aimed at trying to find a common acquaintance (or just a question to get conversation going) and not really about making a class judgement.
Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau
by aHorseWithNoName on Apr 21, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah....i ask people that all the time....
i know people from all over though so i like to see if we know some of the same people. im like a real life facebook. it probably sounds a little elitist when they return the question and i say rockhurst, but i swear thats not the intent.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 21, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Hi guys.
Royals had like 7k in the seats yesterday.
See Data Differently: Beyond the Box Score | @justinbopp
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My roommate
is a Cardinals fan. Terrible fan. Makes no effort to follow the team.
My favorite line,
and an excellent way to describe what’s wrong with fair-weather, pink hat, and we’re-so-downtrodden-it’s-cool fans
they’ve never turned their love for their team into a meta-self-reflexive love
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 21, 2011 12:44 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
It is one of the best sentences I've read in months.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 21, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Are the worst parts of "The Best Fans in Baseball" there solely because they are bandwagon fans?
Winning brings out the morans.
I’m guessing the Royals will have plenty of morans once they get back to the playoffs.
by AxDxMx on Apr 21, 2011 1:49 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Somebody actually recently wrote a letter to the KC Star
About their Royals season preview, saying “Thanks for telling me they won’t win this year so I don’t have to go to the games.”
Monday is an awful way to spend 1/7th of your life.
by KeepItCopacetic on Apr 21, 2011 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions



















