Why Can't Joakim Soria Miss Bats Anymore?
When did Joakim Soria turn into Jimmy Gobble?
Yes, Soria blew the game today. That isn't what this post is about. He allowed a couple weak singles amidst the White Sox rally, and well, these things happen. No, this is about a potentially much bigger issue. Heading into today's disastrous outing Joakim Soria already had something of a minor issue developing: he wasn't getting many strikeouts. You won't believe me, but I came very close to mentioning this when I wrote about the bullpen earlier this week, but thought, "nah, I'm going to be positive here."
Heading into today's game, Joakim Soria had recorded one strikeout out of 14 batters faced. That's a strikeout rate of 7.1%. After today, that number is down to 4.5%. Ugh. Early, but ugh.
Worse still, look at the swinging strikes numbers. Heading into today's game, Soria's 2011 swinging strike percentage was 6.1%, easily the lowest of his career. (That's 3 swinging strikes if you're doing math at home.) Well, today, by my count, Soria threw 25 pitches. Swinging strikes? Zero. For the year, Soria has thrown 74 pitches and has induced three swings and misses. A swinging strike percentage, for the year, of 4%. You simply don't see hardly any pitchers around that number. At least not for very long: they either improve, or leave the Majors. For a reliever? Unbelievably low. Brian Bannister, as a starter, was usually around 6-7%.
Missing bats is a terrific proxy for stuff and, quite simply, the easiest way to put batters away. We saw this in the 9th today, when Paul Konerko fouled off three pitches, then managed a single, with the game on the line. Looking at his career numbers, this simply hasn't been the norm for Joakim Soria:
| SS% | K% | |
| 2007 | 10.7% | 27.6% |
| 2008 | 11.4% | 25.5% |
| 2009 | 13.3% | 31.1% |
| 2010 | 9.3% | 26.3% |
| 2011 | 4.0% | 4.5% |
So why has this happened? A) It's simply random bad luck/statistical noise. B) Soria is still working on his stuff/arm slot/release point/one of his pitches. C) It's a stretched out/fatigue/endurance issue. D) Something else, such as tipping his pitches.
The troubling thing is that the decline in swinging strikes and strikeouts are related. If he was still missing bats, just not getting as many strikeouts, there'd be a much greater chance that this was simply bad luck. In an incredibly small sample, Soria's performance is way off. It'll be interesting to see if anything comes out over the next few days. Onward to the Pitch f/x data, reading between the lines in managerial quotes and all the rest! Let's hope this post looks very stupid in a month or so.
66 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
You Did Math
For this post in college?
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 7, 2011 3:55 PM EDT up reply actions
My money's on random variation
until someone gives me concrete evidence something with his pitches has changed.
I bet that if someone looked carefully, he or she could find a stretch of similar length from Soria with the low K numbers, only it happened in the middle of a season when the numbers weren’t so stark.
Having said that, this stretch probably means the Royals will have to settle for Jesus Montero in trade for Soria.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
that's always, probably, the safest bet
especially at the beginning of the season, when these numbers are all we have
when I saw that he went 0-25 today though, felt it was worth, tentatively, worrying about
It's called playing the percentages!
It’s what good managers do to win ballgames.
That Heyward guy is pretty good.
by another simpsons avatar on Apr 7, 2011 9:49 AM EDT up reply actions
I had the same reaction
Soria hadn’t been missing bats before yesterday, but the sample was so small that it seemed meaningless. Add in another 25 pitches without a desperately needed whiff, and it definitely makes you wonder. Still too early to freak out, but it’s something worth following.
Might not be helping that he has pitched 5 times in 6 games (and 5 times in 6 days)..
then again, we might have won if Collins (who threw 6 pitches) pitched the 8th.. or if Mike Aviles wasn’t ice cold and about to explode in frustration
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Sponsor, 2011 Royals Alumni Fantasy Camp/Royals 5th Starter Star Search
Or
if Frenchy le Suck (at least that’s what my buddy the Braves fan calls him…it’s starting to make sense) had just put a ball in play in the 11th. Thanks for the K, Francoeur.
Collins and Jeffress have REALLY impressed thus far. Collins probably got a quick hook because he went 2 or 3 innings on Tuesday, didn’t he?
He's weirdly prone to innings like today's ninth
and has been since early last year. That’s strictly observational, of course, but I haven’t had absolute confidence in Soria in a year or more. We always joke that the dude likes drama, but it’s true that if he’s not lights out, he’s trouble.
There might be someting
I just have a really really hard time caring after 5 innings.
5 innings represents about 7% of his expected season’s work (70 innings or so).
For a hitter, that would be 46 PA’s (of 650).
I don’t think anybody was crapping themselves when Mark Teixeira has an OPS sub-.400 after that long last year. Nobody will be concerned if Pujols is still scuffling in a few days when he passes that many PA’s.
go look at the pitch f/x data guys, he's THROWING A NEW PITCH!
he’s throwing this new cutter in place of his fastball, and it started in spring training. it’s 86-87, and has like half the break of a true slider. Today he threw his fastball more (89-93), but kept throwing that junky cutter. His regular fastball cuts, but this looks like a totally different pitch on gameday, and it’s not one he was throwing last year. His slider is 79-81, this is in the mid 80’s. By my count Soria has 5 pitches right now: fastball, cutter, slider, changeup, and curveball.
ALSO, wtf is wrong with Robinson Tejeda? He is missing 5 miles off his fastball right now, and nobody is talking about it. If I remember correctly, he started last season throwing 90-91 too, but this is a guy that must be mid 90’s to be effective.
by slayor on Apr 6, 2011 8:15 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
Tejeda
Something else I noticed about Tejeda the other day. Is he throwing the changeup way more often than the past. Seems like he threw 4 changeups in a row the other day to one batter. Just seems odd to me. I agree that he needs to be throwing his fastball in the mid-90’s to be effective with all of his pitches.
he threw 4 changeups in a row to the same guy multiple times
a true case of a WTF pitch selection
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Sponsor, 2011 Royals Alumni Fantasy Camp/Royals 5th Starter Star Search
Wonder if that's legit or a bad ID issue.
Paging Mike Fast….paging Mike Fast
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I am not Mike Fast, pretty much no one is, but here is my best take.
Soria does look to be throwing cutter. The best way IMO to locate the different pitches is to group them by spin a speed and they can be seen here:
Looks like he is throwing a cutter, that is 8 MPH slower than his fastball. Looking at the rest of charts, he was putting it across the plate quite a bit. Here is an image of the pitches that had a result:
Zack tried to live off a trying to make weak contact instead of going for K’s. The problem is that BH can happen, go for the K instead.
/waits to be put in place by Mr. Fast
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 7, 2011 9:29 AM EDT up reply actions
The second image is not that good, the grouping of 2,3,5 was two singles and the double.
Link to Soria’s pitch fx data from last night
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 7, 2011 9:31 AM EDT up reply actions
yep
no idea why he’s messing with this new pitch or what the point is, but I think he needs to go back to what was working.
well it was a "lost season", so there's no better time than this to try something different
If he makes it work, great; if he keeps looking like Brian Bannister, then let’s hope he scraps it sooner rather than later.
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 7, 2011 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Asked Mike Fast about it on twitter,
he says that Soria’s not throwing a new pitch but his fastball has often shown similar type of movement.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Ask him about the big differences in speed.
- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …
by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 7, 2011 3:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, with all due respect to Mike
Not sure I buy that. Why is he only throwing his fastball at 85-87 if it’s the same pitch? When in that same inning he got his fastball up to 93. Doesn’t make a lot of sense to me.
We were high on life
Maybe Soria/Aviles/Frenchy/SOS absolutely sucked to make sure we didn’t get carried away.
There might be something to him not throwing his curveball as much
- In 2007 and 2008, he threw his curveball almost 1 out of every 10 pitches (9.8% and 9.9%, respectively).
- In 2009, his curveball rate increased slightly to 11.8%
- In 2010, though, his curveball% dipped to a career-low 7.1, and as we have seen so far, he doesn’t break out the Uncle Charlie (he was ahead of two consecutive hitters with either 1-2 or 0-2 counts with two outs in the 9th and threw fastballs each time that caught a large part of the plate).
- In 2009 and 2010, he threw a much higher percentage of changeups than he did in 2007 and 2008.
- So far, his slider and changeup are accounting for almost half of his quantified pitches on the season.
Right now, according to FanGraphs, ~30% of his pitches have been unquantified, but in having seen every game this year on TV, I can tell you that 30% is not chock-full of curveballs (especially when FanGraphs has his FB% around 47% right now).
It’s pretty clear that he moved away from the curveball last season and went to the changeup more heavily, and the slider also saw an increase, but not the highest of his career.
So far this year, he has been relying on the fastball, slider, and changeup again, accounting for more than 94% of his quantified pitches.
I wonder if they looked at the data, because in 2010 his wCB was -3.2 while his wFB, wSL, and wCH were 9.1, 3.6, and 2.3 respectively.
The thing is, Soria needs his curveball to set up all of his other pitches. He doesn’t overwhelm with velocity, his fastball doesn’t have a lot of movement on it, and throwing that knee-bender gets hitters off-balance, amplifying the value of his other pitches.
Yes, it is a small sample size, and he will more than likely trend back towards his mean, but I can’t help but wonder if they are tinkering with him and his pitch selection, or maybe the fact that he honestly doesn’t have the best fastball, slider, changeup, or curveball in the bullpen anymore.
Collins has a better hook and a better change, Jeffress, Collins, Tejeda, and Crow all have better fastballs, and Crow and Jeffress throw some very hard sliders.
We’ll have to wait and see, I suppose.
I don't know where to find pitch-by-pitch numbers to see swinging strikes, but check out July 24-August 1 of last year.
Starting with the last three batters of the July 24 game, to the end of the August 1 game, he faced 21 batters and only had one strikeout.
Two strikeouts and three walks from 7/24/09 to 8/1/09
Another thing from his game logs last year was that he never gave up more than 2 runs in any game that he pitched.
Much like the Royals luck swung the other way to compensate today, you had to swing to the negative to compensate for your previous post. Dude has a career ERA of 2.98, a WHIP of 0.985 and an ERA+ of 223 in and 9.8 K/9 in around 250 IP. I think we maybe ought to give him the benefit of the doubt over 5 innings.
Soria also got hurt by a stat I like to call the BH
BH standing for Bitch Hit
If there is one positive we can take for Soria, he didn’t get hit too hard.
Pierre had a legit single to lead it off..
Then he walks Gordon Beckham.
Gives up a BH single to Rios off Aviles’ glove..
Gives up another BH single to Konerko to RF
Then gives up a perfectly placed double to the outfield, which I thought wasn’t hit all that hard. Looked like he muscled it off the handle..
All things considered.. I still can’t believe I’m left here thinking we had 1 F$#KING out to get. In other cases, 1 STRIKE. According to gameday, he threw 1 curveball today.. Maybe he should have thrown one in the 0-2 count to Quentin.
Worst part is, we have an off day tomorrow to think even more about this. Completely took the wind out of our sails.. Hopefully it didn’t do the same for the Royals
Bitch hit ha! Classic
.......Just a beer drinking KC Chiefs & KC Royals fan.......
POWDER BLUE BOMBERS!!!!!
by Mas Cervezas on Apr 6, 2011 10:39 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Couldn't we just call them a
Podsednik?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 7, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Definitely some bad luck involved
They even talked about Konerko’s fister over the right side during the telecast. And the grounder between SS and 3rd was just one of those perfectly placed ground balls.
While that's all true
occasionally missing bats will really help to nullify a BH
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
The BM Stat
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Apr 7, 2011 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions
well, from the sounds of several of these comments
We could have ourselves a case of an overactive (over-tinkering) pitching coach, bad catchers, or both.
Sign a new CBA NOW, you greedy bastards.
I don think the catchers are a part of it
Soria should be able to throw the pitches he wants at this point
And he's thrown to a lot of different catchers in his ML career with consistent success
not sure why this year’s catchers would be any different
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 7, 2011 1:06 PM EDT up reply actions
In regards to Soria, there's only one correct reponse, regardless of the question
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Apr 6, 2011 11:48 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
http://statspeakmvn.wordpress.com/2008/01/06/on-the-reliability-of-pitching-stats/
According to this guy, you need about 150 pa before you can make any meaningful conclusions about changes in k rate. Hopefully, he’s right.
so we only have to wait half of sorias season to know if he needs tomake adjustments....
thats a relief
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Apr 7, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions
I would tend to agree
however, we aren’t talking about a drop from 20% to 15% and I’m complaining. a very big part of his game has more or less been totally absent.
I wonder if those 150 PA's can be over two seasons.
If so and we go back through July 2010, including today, Soria’s K rate is 21.3% over 169 batters faced. In his career, it’s 27.0% over 1044 batters. Now obviously 1044 > 169 in sample size, but if 150 PA’s really is a meaningful sample, that seems like a decent drop.
I also looked at the first 170 batters he faced last year. Over that sample, he had a a K rate of 27.6. That covers the period from the start of the season, through the game against the Yankees on July 24th. In the 122 batters he’s faced since that game, he has a K rate of 20.5%. I know that’s not the 150 PA’s mentioned in the article, but I found it interesting anyways.
Quite possibly everything I’ve just said means absolutely nothing, but as I looked it up for personal curiosity, here it is for everyone else to see as well.
How about F?
That’s all of the above (which would be option E) plus some other things.
He’s been around for a while now, which means batters have seen him. This is always a huge factor in a pitcher’s career. He no longer surprises the opposition. He’s thrown a lot of pitches, so it’s unreasonable to expect his arm to be the same as it was even a year ago.
Also, don’t forget that he got 2 ground outs and got another ground ball that Aviles couldn’t handle (whether he should have handled it, or maybe even allowed Escobar to make the play is for another post).
And we’ve played a couple of pretty decent lineups. The Angels and White Sox have some quality hitters on their rosters.
"You can't be fat and fast too; so lift, run, diet, and work." ~ Hank Stram
Hasn't Soria complained about not being able to spot the curveball quite how he wants to?
I think he’s backing off of it, because he’s not sure where it is going.
I saw the highlights. Tough loss.
1) It’s Game 6. Let’s give Soria the benefit of the doubt. He didn’t get hit hard last night. 2) Peña and Trainor are splitting time 50-50, which is probably about right. 3) Alex and Billy are whacking the ball. 4) Ned might give Betemit more at-bats; he’s had only ten, and put up a .385 OBP. Betemit hit very well last year. Give him a chance.
5) Two good appearances by Francis. Hope we can trade him for something decent in July. 6) Why didn’t Ned Adcock instead of add O’Sully with the game tied? O’Sully ought to be strictly the mop-up man. 7) The Royals are stealing bases effectively—11 SB against 1 CS. 2 each for Getz, Frenchy, Escobar, and Aviles.
"America is a nation without a distinct criminal class, with the possible exception of Congress." --Mark Twain
OT notes:
1) The Rays are considering either Joel Peralta or Farnsy for their closer spot. They must have a terrible bullpen. 2) Remember Donnie Murphy? He failed to win the 3B job in Miami. 3) Remember when we traded Octavio Dotel a few years ago and everybody thought getting rid of him was a great idea because his arm was going to fall off? It was a good trade, but Dotel’s arm didn’t fall off, and Toronto is paying him $3.5 million this year. 4) The Brewers DFAed a lefty named Dan Merklinger, who appears not to be terrible, and might be worth a longshot dice roll.
"America is a nation without a distinct criminal class, with the possible exception of Congress." --Mark Twain
It's not that the Rays' bullpen is terrible, it's that no one stands out for the high-leverage situations
The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 7, 2011 1:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I remember Soria blowing a game against the Rays early last year
And people having a similar conversation. I am not worried at this point in the season. I bet/hope he will be fine.
With that said, if the Yankees really offered Montero for him last year, I would have traded Soria in a heart beat.
He then went on to reel off a bunch in a row.
I’m not worried about him, but I wonder if bringing him into the game in tie game situations has something to do with it. Psychologically, it could have an effect on his performance possibly. His success to the casual fan is measured by saves, period. As a closer to possibly pick up a bunch of random wins or holds, he could just be meh on the entire situation. The save stat being complete bullshit notwithstanding…
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Apr 7, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions
This is probably mostly statistical noise/new pitch but...
If there is something seriously wrong with him, than I won’t be going into 100% freak out mode as I would in years past. They’ve got so many options that would be well worth taking a look at in the “closer” role. I have a feeling this may be Aaron Crowe’s future career path, but there are several other viable candidates, some on the big league roster even that may be able to hold down the fort. I guess the lesson here is that Jack’s still got another five years our so to go before anyone should deem him as the next Mariano Rivera.
by YouDon'tPhaseMeGobble on Apr 7, 2011 9:38 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
The MEXICUTIONER
He is afraid to Mexicute people. That’s the whole problem. He’s lost his edge. Expect him to turn in his wings. Man, Montero would look good in Royal blue.
No Matter What
He should be dealt at the deadline. He’ll never be more valuable, and we have a ton of young arms to replace him.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
When they're guys that play more than 70 innings a year and the team is actually ready to compete?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Over-analysis
Sure, the math supports what?
It’s the first week, the Red Sox haven’t won and Jeff Francis has an ERA under 2.
I seriously doubt we need to worry about Soria. It’s early, he’s a reliever who rarely gets work. I’m sure he will be in Soria form by May 1st.




















