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Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

Has Soria Added a Cutter This Season?


Will's post about Joakim Soria not missing any bats this year led to a side conversation about whether or not he's throwing a cut fastball this year.  At first, I questioned if it was a classification issue because it's one of the first things that always pops up whenever Pitch F/X is says someone is throwing a new pitch.  Jeff Z shared this nice graphic from Brooks Baseball showing his pitches from his last outing.

Spinsoria_medium_medium

via assets.sbnation.com

To my untrained eye, it looked like a fastball with less velocity.  Seemed like a cutter should have a slightly different spin axis. These are all in the same area, the pitch just moves a little slower.  So I took to twitter to get in contact with Pitch F/X guru Mike Fast.  He kindly replied with the following:

Soria throws 4 pitch types: fastball (call it a cutter if you want), changeup, slider, curve.  His fastball is normally ~91 mph.

Star-divide

When this was posted, I was instructed to specifically mention the speed differences.  Mike was kind enough to reply again:

There's a hint he's throwing his fastball at two different speeds this year, ~90 mph and ~86 mph, but I don't know what to make of that yet.

Second Reply: I'm not sure if it's a purposeful strategy by Soria or a case of inconsistent mechanics/injury.  Movement's not changing, just speed.

After patting myself on the back, I looked at a few other pitchers that are known to throw cutters to see how they react compared to fastballs in the same graphs Jeff shared. 

First up, the cutter king Mariano Rivera Mariano_medium

Fastball and cutter have a different spin angle, Soria's pitches in question do not.  Searching for other pitchers that throw a cutter, I found this thread and picked out Scott Feldman and Angel Guzman for two more guys to look at quickly.

Feldman

Feldman_medium

And Guzman, though it needs to be noted that both Harry Pavlidis and Mike Fast classify this slider as a cutter.

Angelguzman_medium

If his slider is really a cutter, (which makes sense when comparing the speeds and spin angle to the other charts) then both of these guys also show a slightly different spin on their cut fastballs than on their regular fastballs.  That's just something that we can't see with Soria's pitch yet.  However, he could be trying to take some of the heat off in an effort to get more movement on the pitch.  While looking up some info on this, I came across this post by Mike Fast about Soria from May of last season.  Fast says:

Soria has a fastball with a lot of cut that runs 89-94 mph. The cut fastball is his bread-and-butter pitch; he uses it for 69% of his pitches to lefties and 78% of his pitches to righties.

Of course, he also includes this nugget and it's a huge difference from the pitcher Will noticed:

Soria gets a lot of swinging strikes in the zone to both lefties and righties.

I don't know enough to be able to choose a side and this was too long for a comment, so I shared here.  But if I had to pick a side, when dealing with Pitch F/X it has to be with the non-RR guy.  Sorry Jeff, no hard feelings.  As the season goes on, the answer should become a little clearer.

Comment 15 comments  |  7 recs  | 

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It looks like the different pitchers here

have different variances between their FF and FC angles of rotation.

To help differentiate what Soria is doing would it help to also look at his release points?

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Apr 8, 2011 12:16 AM EDT reply actions  

I have no idea.

But I’d think release points for a cutter and fastball would be pretty similar, so in my (far from informed) opinion release points wouldn’t help much with this issue. As an example, here’s a grab of Mariano’s release points with the spin below it.

That’s 65 cutters and 19 fastballs.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Apr 8, 2011 8:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Might help to get the pitch f/x from the spring training games too

I think he pitched in at least 2 games @ surprise w/ the system on. I’m not sure I understand why he would be throwing his fastball that much slower, I don’t remember him doing it before. This is a really good mystery.

by slayor on Apr 8, 2011 1:23 AM EDT reply actions  

Yo creo en Jack.

"America is a nation without a distinct criminal class, with the possible exception of Congress." --Mark Twain

by Juancho on Apr 8, 2011 2:53 AM EDT reply actions  

No problem Warden.

I even put in the original comment that Mike Fast would put me in my place.

I just don’t get why he is throwing the weak one. Definitely something to follow in the next few week.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 8, 2011 10:03 AM EDT reply actions  

I hope he's just trying to get more movement out of it.

And if that’s the case, I hope he (or the org.) realizes that it hasn’t worked so far.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Apr 8, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Two thoughts - maybe Soria's FB just isn't up to speed or is he throwing his slider harder?

If you look at last years velocity/spin chart, the 88-mph/175-degree (ish) pitch is not entirely unprecedented for him (I can’t post the image right now). In the low range of FB, maybe 10% of his fastballs look like the mystery pitch from this year. Let’s hope the reason for the high numbers of this odd pitch so far in 2011 isn’t injury.
Also, as his sliders increase in speed, the spin angle gets closer to that of his FB. A few sliders from last year come very close to the same criteria as the mystery pitch, particularly if you just extrapolate a bit to see what a “faster” slider from Soria would look like.

The whole problem with the world is that fools & fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts. ~ Bertrand Russell

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Apr 8, 2011 11:45 AM EDT reply actions  

This article is INTENSE...

y’all should seriously work for the Royals

Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.

by PhattStairs on Apr 9, 2011 9:40 PM EDT reply actions  

I reckon...

this is the best thread to put it…

If one of you statistical maniacs could post a sweet article nut-shelling all of the sabermetric stats like BaBIP and FIP and all that stuff…it would be greatly appreciated to those of us that aren’t 100% sure what is being discussed sometimes…

just each stat and a small paragraph about what it is, how pertains to the Royals, what is a good number and what is a bad number, etc.

this is a lot to ask, but the non-sabermetrical royalsreview contingent would surely be appreciative and thankful for it

we could all research it for ourselves, but I feel a lot of that info gets jumbled because most sabermetric articles aren’t written with a layman’s approach…just trying to learn the ropes faster than I could on my own

Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.

by PhattStairs on Apr 10, 2011 10:21 AM EDT reply actions  

The best source right now is by Steve S at Fangrpahs:

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/

If you don’t understand something, he will gladly get you an answer.

I am not trying to avoid the question, but if I was to answer it, I would just end up referencing it.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on Apr 10, 2011 2:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

ty

Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.

by PhattStairs on Apr 10, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just an update, got another tweet from Mike Fast today

linked Soria’s slower fastball/cutter back to last August.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Apr 11, 2011 11:01 PM EDT reply actions  

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