Vin Mazzaro Has One of the Worst Nights Ever: Sets Record for Futility, Gets Demoted to AAA
by Freneau on May 17, 2011 1:01 AM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintSo how about that David DeJesus trade?
OK, sorry, that's a cheap shot, but you knew it was coming. Still, when a guy allows fourteen runs, becoming the first player to do so since 1998, you don't have many options for your opening. Statistically speaking, Mazzaro had one of the worst games in the history of baseball, as he became the first player in Major League history to allow fourteen runs in less than three innings. Given that there have been thousands of games played each season, for over 100 years, that's saying something.
However, Mazzaro's nightmare also reminded me of the Jimmy Gobble Game. In 2008, Trey Hillman left Gobble to suffer through a ten run inning in a strange game that also featured Tony Pena Jr. pitching a scoreless ninth. In 2008, I strongly felt that Hillman's actions violated baseball ethics, as there was no good reason to leave Gobble out there for so long. It seemed punitive, like Hillman wanted to show the world how bad Gobble was.
Mazzaro, on the other hand, was in a different situation. The injury to Kyle Davies threw off the entire game, and Mazzaro entered the game in the 4th inning. There were innings there to be filled, and seeing as how Mazzaro is a starter, he's the right man to be filling them. Gobble was a bad reliever pitching in the 7th and 8th innings.I do feel bad for Mazzaro, who we can only meekly add, isn't this bad. No one is this bad. He had a bad day at a bad time against a good lineup. He's all but guaranteed now to have a very bad ERA in 2011, and the sad fact is, that will have real world consequences affecting his pay and maybe even his future.
Although this was not a repeat of the Gobble Slaughter, it ended up being a bizarre night from Ned Yost. Yost sending Mazzaro back out for the 5th inning, after he had allowed 10 runs in the 4th, is a curious move. Clearly, Yost was desperate to get through the game with as few pitchers as possible. And maybe he wanted Mazzaro to "pitch through it" or "finish strong" or whatever cliche Baseball Men like him think in. In any case, that decision ended up sending Mazzaro into infamy, yet solved none of the game's pressing problems. The Indians ended up scoring four more runs and Yost had to go to the bullpen anyway.
Tim Collins, Louis Coleman and Joakim Soria pitched in a 19-1 loss today, which is both a travesty and a failure.
The injury to Davies put the Royals in a difficult spot and essentially the worst possible outcome happened: the bullpen got burned out to begin the week, they sent Mazzaro into the history books and then back to AAA, and they got humiliated on the scoreboard. Unlike the Gobble Game, this loss was a more complete disaster and the Royals wake up tomorrow down two starting pitchers.
While I don't think Yost deserves to be completely ripped for his actions tonight, there's very little justification for using each of (arguably) his three best relievers in the lowest leverage possible. I'm sure he feels its a huge injury risk or "disrespecting the game" or whatever, but the 9th inning of a 19-1 game is precisely when you have Mitch Maier or Brayan Pena or whomever pitch an inning. If Blake Wood isn't healthy enough to pitch in a 19-1 game, then maybe he shouldn't be on the roster anyway. 'Cause you know, he's Blake freakin' Wood. Blake Wood is useless when he's healthy. The Royals got dealt a very bad hand tonight, but they aren't blameless either. I wrote over the weekend that the Royal roster is pretty poorly constructed, and tonight's game reinforces that claim. The Royals somehow don't have enough pitchers or hitters on a nightly basis, which simply shouldn't happen. You've got 25 roster spots to work with and about a zillion interchangeable parts between AA and MLB. At least have options with one side of the game.
The loss sends the Royals back to .500 at 20-20, six games behind Cleveland. While we'd all take 20-20, this team doesn't look like much of a contender at the moment. Of course, this moment is also the worst possible time to be looking. For better or worse, there's another game today.
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As I said on the other post,
Soria pitching was probably inevitable because he hadn’t pitched in five days, and Yost doesn’t like to let him go more than that. Fine, I can live with that. I’m glad he didn’t use Crow. The decision to go with Coleman in the ninth was inexplicable.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 1:06 AM EDT reply actions
And why add another appearance for Collins?
He’s been used a ton this season. This was a good chance to keep him on the bench for a game.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:28 AM EDT up reply actions
Who Is In
The back of his pen, anyway? I can’t remember.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 17, 2011 2:52 AM EDT up reply actions
how wopuld you have done it....
he went with his shitty ‘long’ guys for as long as he could and he should have everyone available for tomorrow….outside of throwing position players which im against, there wasnt a whole lot to be done. who wouldve you used?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 17, 2011 3:43 AM EDT up reply actions
I would have had Adcock eat 3-4 innings, followed by Mazzaro for 4-5. Then Jeffress mops up
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions
he couldve left adcock in awhile longer....
but mazzaro clearly wasnt going 4 or 5….im sure that was his plan the entire time…but mazzaro ended up being historically awful.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 17, 2011 12:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Don't know what else could've been done
with the epic SUCK by Vinnie. Maybe let Mitch toss an inning or two. Getz? Alcides? Welcome to 31-1.
I can understand the whole 19-1 mind blitz...
but I, in no way, can even begin to explain or defend the Collins move…I am a Yost apologist, but I have lost my cool with this move…ugh, terrible night
Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.
Blake Wood Should
Have pitched at least 2 innings. When did he pitch last, in NY? Wood has been getting better, and this was a chance to let him gain some confidence in an extemely low leverage situation.Of course, there may be factors of which I am unaware.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
There You Go
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 17, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions
KD, VM -> Tejeda, Teaford
Losing the battle, winning the war?
by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on May 17, 2011 1:27 AM EDT reply actions
It'll be interesting to see if they try to use Tejeda as a spot starter when he gets back
He’s had a lot of success as a starter before, and I’ve championed him as a starter before.
Gotta wonder if there is a slight chance Duffy gets brought up
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
I doubt they would spot start Tejeda at this point, coming off of injury and with his endurance at a low ebb, pitching just a little after a period of inaction.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions
If need be, they could probably bring up Kanekoa Texeira as a spot starter.
The Tejada possibility seems unlikely for the reasons stated below.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 1:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Make no mistake, tonight was a rare night and the Royals had everything go wrong
Still, this maginifies the already existing problem of having a terrible rotation.
The Royals are burning through the bullpen at an alarming rate, and Yost isn’t great at managing it to begin with.
I think I win, more like lose really
This is the SECOND time I’ve been to a Royals 19-1 loss. (last time was the Twins last year) Can I get an award? Also, to be fair the Royals have won 7 out of the last 10 times I’ve gone, I’m not a curse, I promise!
"I'm not about to go and aks the manager to put me in when those other guys out there be rakin it." - Jarrod Dyson
by AlexGordonHRmagnet on May 17, 2011 1:41 AM EDT reply actions
Baseball Is The
Most random of sports. Odds are at least 40% we’ll win tomorrow.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 17, 2011 3:05 AM EDT up reply actions
Agree entirely
It’s day one of a Homestand that is comprised entirely of opponents likely to give your Rotation trouble and necessitate heavy bullpen use and you burn through all of them. Completely inexplicable and indefensible.
And it makes the Mazzaro thing inexplicable. Maybe he didn’t want to keep him out there to reduce pitcher use, I can go with that as tough as it for Vin. But then he uses everyone else in 1 inning stints? It doesn’t add up. He also had Crow, who hasn’t pitched Wednesday sitting there unused who as as he showed last time out can eat 3, maybe 4, innings and save everyone else.
Coleman and Collins pitching tonight is absolutely asanine
I think Maz was done wrong, but that doesn’t matter. Tomorrow will probably be a 7 inning game for SOS no matter how the game goes. Yost completely mismanaged every situation possible tonight in regards to our pitching. This game was a one-off and the chances of this all happening again tomorrow are very slim. But my god explain why Collins must pitch every 1.5 days and why it was necessary to bring in Coleman? The game wasn’t respectable and by keepin the score sheet clean in the later innings wasn’t going to salvage anything. Mind boggling, Yost is going to deplete our bullpen.
Do these effectively hide my thunder?
So, who the hell is pitching for us this weekend anyways?
and the Adcock appearance was pointlessly short. Why bring in the long man for only 29 pitches?
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Yeah, I thought that was weird
I would have had Adcock eat 3-4 innings, followed by Mazzaro for 4-5. Then Jeffress mops up.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions
yeah
unless the logic was that Adcock was just killing time until Mazzaro was ready. I never heard one way or another if Mazzaro started the game in the bullpen, which would kind of suggest they knew Davies wasn’t 100% and DIDN’T SKIP HIM LIKE THEY COULD HAVE DONE WITH THE RAIN DELAY.
But Adcock was pulled after letting one guy reach, which is the typical Yost move for mid-inning pitching changes and for deciding when starters are done.
I think Yost said that Adcock was in for 2 and then Mazzaro for 5 and the backend for the rest anyways.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
that's a good question for Yost...
He might even answer it, but I’m certain that Adcock was in to make time for Mazzaro – both to find him(?) and let him get ready. That’s what I figured anyway and it made sense.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
It seems counterproductive to pull Adcock after he walked one guy in the 3rd
but if Mazzaro starts the game in the bullpen… maybe he should have started the game instead of the guy who Yost knew had neck stiffness before the starter
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
That's just it.
I don’t know for sure, but I highly doubt that Mazzaro started the game in the pen.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
It’s just that when you have nine innings to fill, it’s a bad idea to burn out your long reliever early after just a little work. Then you’re putting all of the burden of keeping the bullpen from being burnt out on Mazzaro who everyone recognizes isn’t exactly a shutdown pitcher who you can rely on to give you 6+ decent innings.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 9:43 AM EDT up reply actions
fair enough
but if we would have expected a typical performance from Mazzaro, say 5 innings (to finish out the 7th) and give up 4 runs, then does this conversation where we possibly question the use of the bullpen altogether occur? He was epic, historically, unequivocally terrible.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
But with a guy like Mazzaro, you can't necessarily expect 5 innings
He’s a 5th SP-quality pitcher at best at this point (even before this last appearance). And you can’t count on those guys necessarily going 5 innings. Implosions aren’t a surprise. Yost bet too much on Mazzaro going 5+ ip.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions
so what the fuck was he supposed to do?
Adcock for one more inning than he actually threw? You can’t really be arguing that a 5 inning 4 run game wasn’t project-able.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
I think the smart thing to do would have been to have Adcock eat 3-4 innings, followed by Mazzaro for 4-5. Then Jeffress mops up.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 4:28 PM EDT up reply actions
nor am I...
but again, if Mazzaro goes 5 giving up 4, I don’t think there’s much discussion on this matter. He went 2 innings, and forced the Royals to cannibalize their pen when they could least afford it.
Nick Swisher is handsome.
Was there a postgame press conference?
I don’t get to see those. Wonder how Yost explained his decisions.
Obviously the Royals need a
new fight song to motivate them to stay above .500 in the next week. Because at this rate, they could conceivably be 20-26 in a week.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Ned Yost's postgame
-Announced the optioning of Vin Mazzaro, said there would be no corresponding move until tomorrow (lie)
-Davies’ command was off, battled neck stiffness, back of shoulder was stiff.
-Wanted 2 or 3 innings from Adcock, then 5 innings from Mazzaro, then the back-inning guys.
-Says the use of Mazzaro tonight does “nothing to the pitching staff”
-Might replace Mazzaro’s spot with Adcock
-Said Mazzaro wasn’t rushed, needed 5 innings
-Mazzaro has good stuff, good 4seam, 2seem, slider, changeup, command problems
Any chance in hell Ned doesn’t destroy the pen in the next week with 2 spot-starters and Jeff Francis coming up?
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
also
if Lorenzo Cain was playing centerfield, Mazzaro doesn’t give up 14 runs. Remember which CFer had a craptacular read on the Hafner 3-RBI flyball
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Regarding Mazzaro,
I’d like to know what this “good stuff” of which Yost speaks is.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Blake Wood's looked a lot better this year.
He’s got 13 strikeouts against 4 walks in 15 innings. That’s pretty solid, and while it’s a small sample size, I don’t think he was capable of accomplishing even that small feat last year.
by kcdc1 on May 17, 2011 8:29 AM EDT reply actions 2 recs
This is just a thought...
but does anyone else think that Mazzaro got dealt a bad hand last night?
Yes, he couldn’t locate his pitches outside the center of the zone. Yes, he still needs more work on his mechanics…but Yost left him out there to eat as many innings as he could…then just sent him down to AAA w/o much support.
I kinda feel bad for Vin…but what can you do. I think that there is a chance we see an abbreviated rotation for a bit until Davies is diagnosed with an acute affliction of mega-suckitude and we call up Duffy or Suppan.
I'm ellipsis crazy...apologies in advance.
Going with the narrative GMDM shares about "not wanting to send pitchers down after they get called up"
then just sent him down to AAA w/o much support.
Guess this shows what they think of Vinny?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
it was totally brutal
he made history because no other manager would do that
by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on May 17, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions
he could have just let some position player pitch by Mazarro's 7th run or something
instead of destroying his career
by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on May 17, 2011 9:14 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm with you
It was plenty clear after the 10 run inning that Mazzaro was off his game. Why punish him by sending him back out? Maybe Yost conferred with Mazzaro on whether or not to send him back out, which would make it seem better, but that’s also pretty unlikely, I think.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
vin's already burned....
we’re not risking injury….why should we burn more pitchers?…so vins feelings dont get hurt?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 17, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, Vin's feelings
More pitchers wouldn’t have to be burned. Maybe Coleman throws an extra inning. Or have Dyson pitch one (or two – he might actually get to hit).
In order to “save” one or two innings for the bullpen, Yost put the psyche of a young pitcher at risk. There’s a trade-off, one risk for another.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions
And I should say that this is "in a vacuum"
We don’t know what was or wasn’t said between Yost and Mazzaro, or what kind of history they have (I suspect very little, but I really don’t know). Maybe Yost wanted to challenge Mazzaro and felt he could handle it (a la Hochevar, a ploy that I was fine with). Or maybe Mazzaro wanted to go back out for the 5th, maybe he’s the one person in the world who says “yes, I would like to be humiliated some more”.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 1:16 PM EDT up reply actions
That may well have been possible
Since he did have a mound meeting and remain in.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 2:33 PM EDT up reply actions
Sometimes in a blowout, a pitcher needs to take one for the team
Better to have that pitcher have a big number hung on him, than for it to really burn up the rest of the bullpen. Hopefully Mazz understands that. I’m sure Yost explained it to him.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
But here, "take one for the team" was a euphemism for
we’re going to impliedly blame you for the loss and ship your ass to triple-A.
"impliedly blame you for the loss"?
Look, this guy is an adult and a professional. He knows sometimes a pitcher has to be used like this. He knows that no one is “impliedly blaming him for the loss.” And I’m sure that they’ve explained to him that this appearance isn’t why he’s getting demoted. It’s a numbers game. The Davies injury and pitcher usage in that game blew up the rotation, so moves had to be made.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
he looks like a scape goat when he's tossed aside
Yost is getting roasted nationally on Jim Rome. Yes, we’re all adults and I’m not saying that Mazzaro’s feelings must be protected like a delicate flower. I just don’t see how letting a guy give up a 10-spot, only to go out the next inning makes much sense. Adcock gets pulled for, what, a walk, but Mazzaro gets left in the fire.
I think the short outing for Adcock was a mistake
But not Mazzaro. I prefer Mazz getting burned to the bullpen getting blown up in a much more serious way than it was last night.
Also, with Mazz demoted, someone else is going to have to make a start (in addition to Duffy). Adcock might have gotten a short outing because he’s going to have to make a spot start.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:35 PM EDT up reply actions
The thing is, I'm not fully convinced that it's not the reason for the demotion.
I’m too used to Hillman hoisting Josh Rupe into the set up man role, having some success with it, and immediately sending him back down after one bad performace, rinsing, repeating. While Yost appears more patient, I’ve learned never to underestimate the impulsiveness of this organization.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions
at the very least
what happened to Mazzaro kind of exposes that the “Yost is great with young players” claim is a bunch of crap.
Yost being great with great no-doubter prospects in Milwaukee isn’t a sign that he’s great with young players, it’s a sign that he has a functioning brain.
At the very least, Yost is probably just average with young guys. Mazzaro forced the opening with his response to being Yosted. Mazzaro would have been kind of important to prevent some spotstart over this weekend, but something didn’t work out there.
When it comes to Mazzaro, Adcock pitching for such a short period of time didn’t help matters. Neither did Melky blowing an easy play with 2 outs (remember that 9 runs scored with 2 outs). And if Mazzaro wants to take any solace in the 14 runs given up… Jeffress let 3 of them in with his usual performance.
But at the same time, Mazzaro is down by over 10 runs, and he kept throwing it to the same corners that never got called by the ump. So it’s a failure of Mazzaro and Treanor to actually adjust to having the shortest ump in baseball and his two strikezones behind the plate
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Glad I missed this one
I was playing softball last night…good thing I guess.
From what I’ve taken from these posts and other accounts of this game, I think we got fisted by a big, fat mafia boss with a bunch of gigantic gaudy rings on this DeJesus deal. No wonder Mazarro was left in Omaha to start the season.
Second thought, where the hell is our offense?
Third musing, WTF is the deal with us and Cleveland? Those cockbags OWN us. We haven’t really been close to them this season. They have a young roster, how is it they can mash the ball? Are we really that shitty and surviving on smoke and mirrors?
This position we’ve put ourselves in really sucks. We’re stuck in between trying to win and moving toward next season. I love winning, but at this point I think we’ve seen that we are not a good team. Time to focus on next year. Or am I way off base?
Meh
Its up to Vin to not allow massive amounts of runs. I don’t see any evidence of pitchers “being left out to dry” crying and ruining their career. IIRC, Cito Gaston left David Wells out for something like 13 runs early in his career, and he went on to have a very good career. Vin’s job is to get outs, and Ned needed him to produce a few innings. Vin failed. But I’m also guessing Vin has failed before, and overcome. If he is a good MLBer, he will overcome again. So I don’t blame Ned for that.
I guess I’m a bit puzzled why Adcock only went 1 2/3 IP, and why he even burnt Collins/Soria/Coleman at the end when it was probably time to let Mitch Maier throw some BP.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
I see what you're saying, and it's a good point.
And I suppose we have to trust Yost to manage these guys’ psyches better than we outsiders could. At the same time, he let/forced Mazzaro to set a record for futility, which damages any player’s confidence. So why do that when you don’t have to?
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 12:50 PM EDT up reply actions
Just look at the bullpen
Not a lot of guys out there who can be sacrificed. We use all of them and then what do we do for the rest of the week? It was Monday night, for heaven’s sake.
Pitch Dyson, Mitch, or any other benchwarmer.
And/or have Coleman throw an extra inning. And what was at risk as far as the bullpen? – one extra inning, maybe two, which is the kind of thing that is managed all the time. I’m just not sure I see the wisdom of piling the badness on Mazzaro (at least in a vacuum, as I said in another comment).
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 1:20 PM EDT up reply actions
The problem is
that the bullpen has already thrown a boatload of innings. Collins is used nearly every day. Wood thinks he’s already hurt. Tejada has been out. Sure, maybe Coleman could’ve thrown one more and likely Adcock two more. The bottom line is, we can’t have every guy in our pen throwing 5 innings a week. This leads to way too many tired arms down the road.
At this point, it’s Major League Baseball. I’m not too concerned with anyone’s feelings. Save the arms. We can win without the feelings.
That's true, there are unusual circumstances
Still doesn’t mean they couldn’t use a position player.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
They could have
but at that point, we look at a 30-1 loss.
We can debate the finer points of Vin Mazzaro: The Curse of the Epic Suck all we want. All I know is that the debate won’t change a thing.
Joe Sheehan
Mazzaro just got unlucky with a .667 BABIP.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Duffy has just been promoted to KC, starting first game of Texas series.
Supposedly
Killing time until time kills me
Star
has Duffy up, starts tomorrow night. Has given up 10 runs in last 16 innings in three starts, but heard he was concentrating on secondary pitches. Oh, Danny Boy! The future is now.
Does this mean they weren’t stretching Crow out to make starts for the Royals? What a shock!
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Two
starters down at the moment and the replacement for one of them got a ticket back to Omaha. Do the math, I’ll wait…
by Jim Fetterolf on May 17, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
So Crow is the only option?
Let me get this straight, you think that a short reliever (Crow) is more likely to make a start than a long reliever who is stretched out (Adcock)?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:21 PM EDT up reply actions
No,
as has been discussed. There are three relievers who were starters last year, being Crow, Adcock, and Teaford. Main reason to think that Crow is being stretched is the otherwise nonsensical usage of him for three innings and 51 pitches the other night, which is what started the thought process. Transitioning Crow is the only reason to use the high leverage, shut-down reliever for three innings. I have offered the possibility that Crow/Adcock/Teaford may be used as piggy-back starters, in the same way as Arguelles-Mariot are, four or five innings each in the same game and on strict pitch count. Stretching Crow to transition him into a starter is the only theory I have that covers all the evidence. If you have another one, besides “GMDM is ha’Satan and Yost is ha’Melek ha’Ra”, I would be interested in hearing it.
Added advantage to Crow is his name value, in tandem with Duffy, two hot prospect pitchers are here to save the disastrous rotation, the future is now, buy tickets and come see it. That is part of the thinking of GMDM, selling tickets, especially in light of recent articles about the Royals’ poor attendance.
by Jim Fetterolf on May 17, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Stretching Crow to transition him into a starter is the only theory I have that covers all the evidence
I’m sorry but that’s ludicrous. Crow being used for three innings in no way means that he’s likely being stretched out. Maybe Yost just wanted him to pitch those three innings. Would that have been a mistake? If so, do you think Yost is beyond making mistakes? And why use those three good relievers at the end of the game? Well, Mazz was used up and someone had to pitch those innings. Yost screwed up by using Adcock so little early in the game and put himself in a hole.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:50 PM EDT up reply actions
I can see that argument
To me, Crow throwing 51 pitches in 3 innings means we need a guy in the pen that has the ability to lock things down for 1 inning or carry us for 3. Crow is a great guy for that role. Personally, I like Crow where he is right now. He’s developed into a very good reliever. Why mess with the best thing we have in the pen to try and stretch him?
Stretching Crow to transition him into a starter is the only theory I have that covers all the evidence.
Looks like there was at least one other theory that covered the evidence. And you were dead wrong. Adcock and Duffy to the rotation. Crow still in the bullpen.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 18, 2011 9:54 AM EDT up reply actions
He pitched 51 pitches
And 3 innings last Wednesday.
I don’t think it’s much of a stretch at all to suggest he could pitch that again yesterday, saving Collins, Soria and Coleman.
If Yost was serious about “saving the pen” that is what he would have done, rather than procession guys out for one inning mop up stints.
I see lots of positives from last night
1) The Royals were willing to go with Davies all year, regardless of results. Problem solved.
2) Gordon and Butler swung the bat well last night. One XBH each, plus a line out each
3) Duffy promoted.
4) A 2nd LH for the bullpen called up. Perhaps some help for Collins?
5) Soria got to work on his mechanics – and he arguably looked better than he has in quite a while (Choo’s AB aside). He struck out 2 guys, and his command, other than the changeup left up to Choo, was excellent
As for Ned last night, I only have a quibble with pulling Adcock too soon. He is the long reliever – he needs to be given a chance to go further than he was allowed last night. Once Mazarro and Jeffress were done, what was Yost supposed to do? 1 inning each from 3 guys made the most sense.
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
yep...he couldve/shouldve gotten another inning or so out of advock....
but even then, he’s still throwing our real relief pitchers at the end….b/c mazzaro was so bad.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 17, 2011 12:09 PM EDT up reply actions
I think he can let MITCH, Speedoes and BP pitch
I am probably the only Royals fan in Hong Kong?
by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on May 17, 2011 12:38 PM EDT up reply actions
^^this^^^
Was my actual Bday gift from the royals..
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on May 17, 2011 12:37 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
thanks
I like to swing both ways?
(TWSS?)
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
I don't get the criticism of Ned Yost that is going on today.
Mazzaro is a professional baseball player. He is well paid. He was given a coveted slot on a MLB roster. He was given the start in an important MLB game. It was no ones fault but his own that he gave up 14 runs.
I hope Mazzaro is not feeling self pity today and blaming Yost for what happened. He needs to take ownership of that mess. Yost did what he thought was best for the team. He is trying to win games. I would have done the same thing.
There was no magic going on last night. Just crappy pitching.
Just my two cents.
www.rockchalktalk.com for pretty good KU baseball coverage
yeah...id have let mazzaro out there until 100 pitches or so
instead of 77
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 17, 2011 12:30 PM EDT up reply actions
Sarcasm font?
Vin sucked. He should’ve been yanked when he was. Just not a lot of options for the Nedster other than leaving Adcock in a bit longer…
One of the daily polls on ESPN.com is whether Mazzaro
will ever pitch another MLB game. 46% said no. Seems a bit of an overreaction.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 12:33 PM EDT reply actions
I don't know
he hasn’t been a ball of fire since his call-up. I don’t see em getting much more out the Vin-meister.
I'm honestly not at all upset with Mazzaro. I just feel bad for him.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 2:35 PM EDT up reply actions
Melky looked like JoGui out there, minus the arm
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Melky looked like he was guarding Tim Hardaway and lost his jock.
Maybe the ball coming off Hafner’s bat is the baseball equivalent of a cross-over dribble?
Mazzaro is instantly one of my most hated Royals now
fuck that embarrassment. enough is enough. I hope he never pitches for KC again. He is now Elarton. He is TPJ. He is Gload.
Down the f’ing road you incompetent hack!
He's got tools, son!
See, THIS ^ is an overreaction!
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Usually I would take exception to a Facebook-worthy comment like that, but we've come to expect as much from this particular mouthpiece.
Which is a shame, because Dayton really does Suck at a lot of things.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 17, 2011 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions
How do I change my screename to
MazzaroForCyoung?
by GobbleforCyoung on May 17, 2011 1:20 PM EDT reply actions
Calm down, Francis
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on May 17, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been able to muster
an ort of sympathy for the dude. I mean,waking up today to the headlines, the chatter and the laughter must have been miserable. He’s got to be wondering about his future about now. And rightfully so. That’s a lot of stink to shake off.
listen to his postgame
interview and you will change your tune. Mazzaro is a world class prick. And many people who have met him agree.
He's got tools, son!
Link?
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 2:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It's probably already been cremated anyway.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 17, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't find video, but I found a few innocuous quotes from Mazzaro:
From the Royals official site:
“I came into a tough situation and I was a little unprepared. But you’ve got to go out there and attack the zone and try to eat up innings and save the bullpen,” Mazzaro said.
“It was a tough night and a tough situation that I was thrown in, and I tried to do the best I could with it,” Mazzaro said.
From timesunion.com:
“Some of the plays didn’t go my way. It’s a funny game. You’ve just got to keep battling and attack the zone.”
I’m happy to listen to or see the interview. If anybody has a link, please advise.
by kansasjohn on May 17, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I bet Vin
wishes he could rewind himself…
(apologies to anyone who already said something in this vein. Just thought of this today after the thread was no longer fresh in my mind)
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