Sean O`Sullivan Has His Vin Mazzaro Moment as Royals Fall to Rangers
The long baseball season has a way of making every worst case scenario come true, eventually. We all knew heading into this season that the Royals had almost nothing, literally almost nothing, by way of starting pitching, and that no matter how good the bullpen was and how improved the offense might be, it was going to be hard to survive the daily grind with no good or long or both starts ever. And that has more or less happened in the last month.
Tonight the Royals were coming off of back to back extra inning contests, and what has felt like a month long stretch of four and five reliever outings. Day after day. Night after night. They needed innings and they needed a good start, when they handed the ball to Sean O`Sullivan tonight in Texas.
They got the innings, almost. They certainly didn't get the good performance.
A worrying sign for 2012 is that it is increasingly evident that the Royals have nearly an entire rotation to build from scratch. I don't see it.
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Ned threw Collins out there for 27 pitches a night after he threw 44 pitches
I think he’s gonna need to bring Collins out for 15 pitches tomorrow to get mentioned on here
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Ned rationale?
1) Collins is left-handed
2) all left handers throw softer than right handers
3) left handers can be thrown out there almost every day
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
wonder what the post-1988 record is for most pitches in 2 straight games
all in relief..
Collins putting up 71 pitches in 2 games is going to be hard to beat.
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
its probably held by someone who threw 80 or so in a mop up situation...
back to back 30+ outings is rare though
looking at Ned's Milwaukee history
he seems to be using 21yo Tim Collins like he’s 38yo Brian Shouse. Shouse got 201 appearances in 3 years of use by Yost.
Collins might be on another level because he has never started a game at any level, so the use of him for 40 pitches in an outing is kind of bizarre.
Steve Searcy had 132 pitches over 2 days in 1990, with 77 pitches on day 2 in a game marred by rain. Searcy was also an occasional starting pitcher.
Jason Berken had 85 and 76 pitches in 2 days in 2010, but 74 pitches in the 2nd game both times. Berken was also a former starter.
Darrel Akerfelds got 134 pitches over 3 straight games in June 1991. Also had 91 and 71 pitch relief outings on 0 days rest. Then he got optioned in July 1991 and never played in the majors.
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
I'm troubled by the apparent comments that Yost/Moore made about
being given to using these young bullpen arms up rather than babying them…
need to find the link for that
Like on the rack?
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
I guess it would make him taller
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Its probably Jamey Wright...
After all he once threw in both games of a double header
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Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625
by averagegatsby on May 28, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions
Makes no sense. Didn't Yost specifically say that Holland was one of his two inning specialists?
Holland was also one of two pitchers not used yesterday. Does not compute.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it to the point where it might be more beneficial for the Royals to trade one or more of their prospects
for some established, or even not established but high upside starting pitching?
Would you trade Moustakas for someone like, erm, a young-ish, decent pitcher with some upside?
"An American Tale...that’s traumatic as hell. All those scenes when he’s like so close to reuniting with his parents…that’s like SAW for a six year old." -- Will McDonald
no...we can afford decentish SP on the FA market....
we cant afford superstar hitters
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 28, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions
im thinking a ted lilly type....
which is what croooow was talking about i believe. his last two contracts have been around $10 million/year. this team HAS to develop superstars to win. we cannot afford them. and we definitely cannot afford to trade them away for non superstars
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on May 28, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Agreed
I hope they go the Paulino route — find a guy that you can give a month tryout on the waiver wire.
Or, give Pucetas 2 starts. He is pitching OK in Omaha — it might take two turns through the rotation before he gets lit up, then you can perhaps take a shot a bringing up Monty. bruce Chen could also be back by then.
Chen is a reasonable back end guy
SOS, after starting decent, has gone into Luis Mendoza territory.
I think it might be worth it to keep shuttling guys back and forth to play the hot hand. Nothing else seems to be working.
we can do that for this year, because we already suck
but the royals aren’t going to get to .500 doing that
Agreed
I was only suggeting short term solutions. They have to develop/sign guys for next year. Right now, the rotation for 2012 would be:
Hoch
Monty (he will surely be up by the end of this year)
Duffy
??
??
They have to find two more guys in FA or trade. I think you would have to sign a veteran arm of some quality, probably similar to the signings this year. Maybe Miner could play at the back end of the rotation. The gas cans (SOS/Mazzaro/Pucetas) are fine as injury filler for the first part of the year.
Eventually, someone from High A or Double A is going to have to filter up this year and be challenging for a job next year. Lamb looks out of the picture. Dwyer is struggling. If Odorizzi continues to pitch well, I can see him getting some Double A experience this year and being ready for AAA early next year. but they have to come from somewhere…
It might be worth spending some money for a innings eater type on the FA market in the offseason.
I also think
it might be worth a shot to try a couple of their good arms in the rotation. Coleman has two dominating pitches and started in college. Collins has three pitches and is pitching the innings of a starter anyway. Teaford was a starter…and then Crow…you get the point. Shifting pieces on the current roster might be a better bet for effectiveness.
what the hell is going on with crow at this point?
he sucked in the minors as a starter, and is now going to spend all of 2011 as a short reliever
I dont have high hopes
Coleman and Crow
I don’t really think Coleman will ever be a starter, because I think most scouts and coaches worry that his unique delivery will lead to injury with that kind of pitching load. I look for him to be eventual closer material.
I’d love to see them stretch Crow out and throw him in the rotation early next year. I think he has to have a lot of confidence facing ML hitters now, and he has a 3rd and 4th pitch that just need some work and could be pretty good.
by Prime2U on May 29, 2011 4:20 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
What's really weird
Is that the Royals somehow have a chance to win this series tomorrow.
Yeah, I’m saying it.
by OnixConcepcion on May 28, 2011 10:27 PM EDT reply actions
oh yeah! I forgot.
This week has sucked so hard in so many ways (more personal than Royals, but, well, Royals, too), I forgot that the sun is still capable of shining once in a while.
Worse than 19-1
Or the game with two picked off in an inning?
by OnixConcepcion on May 28, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions
The pickoff game was it for me
I’ll take bored over infuriated. This sucked, but it was a lost cause early enough that I stopped caring as much.
by OnixConcepcion on May 28, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I was at the pickoff game. It was excruciating to watch unfold from the stands.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Worst game, though, I think was when Soria gave up 4 in Chicago.
Games like this and 19-1 didn’t string us along for hours.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:07 PM EDT up reply actions
How many times has someone said "that was the worst game all year"
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Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625
by averagegatsby on May 28, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
good bullpen...
people freak out about losing late… look at the soria games
people go absolutely nuts
a game like tonight, we all just tune out and move on
Ive given up hope of seeing .500 again this year
I know our roster is loaded with talent both in the bigs and the minors, and just hope that maybe this year, with all its trials and tribulations will show the Royals who the best coaching staff is to put into place.
While I dont hate Yost so much, I really feel that maybe some of the other position coaches have to go to enable these talented players to reach their potential.
It just seems to me there is something
that continually brings the Royals into a shitty slump. Maybe its the coaching maybe its the pitching, maybe its the hitting, but eventually with the talent we have, the players as themselves and a collective unit should be able to overcome this. Year after year we endure these prolonged slumps, and while I can’t name anyone who I wish would manage the Royals or be bench coaches, I just think that maybe, just maybe with some more qualified help, these young superstars may be able to reach full potential.
I think you are overvaluing the Royals talent
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Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625
by averagegatsby on May 28, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
maybe I am
but I just feel that if all these scouts, from all these teams really say we have something special brewing in KC then why hasn’t it come yet? I mean Hosmer has really showed he is actually “good” for the most part, then why do we always hit these slumps? I know from the internet and media that Yost is a “hardass” so to speak then why are we taking 5 or 6 game losing streaks?
I just think that hopefully all this talent wont be squandered and the fanbase will actually have something to root for, and for once the players will be more important than the post game conferance from the manager who is just going to do the obvious an deflect the blame.
The Royals have the uncanny ability
to lose. They pitch like shit when they hit well, which catches up to them. They pitch well when they hit like shit, which catches up to them. And just as often as the first two scenarios, they pitch and hit like shit simultaneously. Basically, what I’m trying to say is that this team is not a complete team, nor has it been in 25 years.
by OnixConcepcion on May 28, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions
It's a good point
Our seasonal malaise always goes beyond simple slumping, which is something every team experiences. Why is that? What causes us to transform from a capable and even impressive team to one that should have Benny Hill music playing in the backdrop?
Yakety Sax
would make it a little less upsetting.
by OnixConcepcion on May 28, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Rec'd.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
I've even seen it on South Park.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on May 29, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
So,
is SOS on the bus to Omaha yet? Three bad starts in a row, trendline heading down. Best might be to go to a four or even three man rotation,; Hoch, Francis, and Duffy til Chen gets back. At five innings each they’ld get a normal starter’s work load spread out over a number of weeks.
you limit your options when
one of the more qualified starters in the system gets exiled because he didn’t react the right way to giving up 14 runs… so because Mazzaro is exiled. It’s O’Sullivan or nothing right now
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Thought
Mazzaro went down because he sucked and couldn’t adjust. He’s been alright in Omaha, but nothing to show great qualification to return.
“It’s O’Sullivan or nothing right now”
Or it’s a four man rotation til Master Chen returns. Three bad starts in a row probably shouldn’t earn a fourth. I’ve thought all along that SOS was on the thinnest ice, but he put together a few good starts and stuck around.
by Jim Fetterolf on May 28, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions
why the hell would we roast our rotation with a 4 man rotation?
we’re not in contention
and Mazzaro got demoted for attitude reasons as much as the 14 run game. Nate Adcock was not an upgrade over Vin Mazzaro in ability.
The handling of Mazzaro was horrible from a people management standpoint unless Mazzaro somehow forced their hand by not taking enough of the blame for the 14 run game.
The arrogance of the organization sometimes would be more endearing if they had accomplished something on the ML level in 5 years. There is a certain degree of arrogance for them to say right now that Vin Mazzaro isn’t even in contention for one of the 5 rotation spots when the rotation is 3 guys and 2 fill-ins.
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
why the hell would we roast our rotation with a 4 man rotation?
Four guys throwing five or six innings every fourth day is hardly a ‘roast’, not like they’re throwing seven or eight innings like real major league starters.
“Nate Adcock was not an upgrade over Vin Mazzaro in ability.”
Adcock pitched well in his first start and has pitched well in the ’pen. Mazzaro was indifferent in Omaha and got rocked here, so went back to Omaha and is pitching alright, but nothing attention grabbing.
“There is a certain degree of arrogance for them to say right now that Vin Mazzaro isn’t even in contention for one of the 5 rotation spots when the rotation is 3 guys and 2 fill-ins.”
Wasn’t aware they had said that. My understanding is that Mazzaro needs to fix some things and earn a chance back up. He’s pitching decently in Omaha, about like Suppon or Pucetis, but not forcing anything. I agreed with sending him down and think SOS should join him and Jeffress. 10 or 14 runs in one game isn’t acceptable.
by Jim Fetterolf on May 29, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions
I think you can read between the lines
when Mazzaro is getting demoted at a time where the rotation needs someone, that’s a pretty obvious sign that he’s getting buried.
As for the effects of a 4 man rotation…
the rotation would be two injury risks (Hochevar and Francis), a young arm that shouldn’t be in a 4 man rotation (Duffy) and Felipe Paulino. And you might claim that they’re not real starters for not throwing 7/8 innings, but they’re working enough pitches to fit into 7/8 innings
Considering the problems with pitching depth in the minors, risking an injury to a Duffy makes things far worse.
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Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Good points
Guess we just need to wait for Master Chen and Davies to return to save us. Is Davies looking any better to anyone at the moment?
by Jim Fetterolf on May 29, 2011 10:54 AM EDT up reply actions
Like I said last night
SOS will be here until Davies gets back.
by Prime2U on May 29, 2011 4:33 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Paulino's going in
to replace Adcock, right? Least that’s what I thought I read. Potential ugliness there, too.
It's been confirmed.
At least Adcock hasn’t yet shit the bed as a reliever.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember when the Royals traded for O'Sullivan and some jerk just said
O’Sullvan sucks, and a bunch of people put him in his place? I bet that guy wishes he could take it all back now, boy does he look stupid.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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hey hey hey
charges were dropped.
and they are happily together still.
according to wikipedia.
um… so yeah, he probably hit her.
by OnixConcepcion on May 28, 2011 11:23 PM EDT up reply actions
we probably shouldn't go down this road...
actually, no we REALLY shouldn’t
but is there anything more meaningless than dropped domestic violence charges?
but i'm glad I remembered my sordid callaspo history
I always get the batterers and the drunk drivers mixed up
yeah, he got a DUI around UMKC
that’s when he went on the DL to go to rehab
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
I kind of admire Callaspo
He was a major asshole, he was told to straighten up or get out, and he straightened up and did something about his problem. He hasn’t been in any kind of trouble since rehab. I hope he’s a case of a second chance working out.
"They may make cool judgements after the fact
But the name of the game is be hit and hit back" --Warren Zevon
Arrested on a Thursday night/Friday morning at 3 AM
after he allegedly ran a red light near East 48th and Oak.
"It’s certainly a regrettable situation," Moore said. "I know Alberto is very remorseful. He’s embarrassed. He’s scared. Again, he’s very remorseful, and we are very supportive of him getting through tough times."
by OnixConcepcion on May 29, 2011 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions
College campus parking tickets
Issued by hourly student employees to football coaches or athletic directors.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah
my one parking ticket for not displaying a tag was waived because it was my first ticket. Thanks UCM!
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
I can't graduate from Washburn
because I got an unpaid ticket visiting a girl there overnight 5 years ago. Good thing I have no intention of ever going there.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Topeka might have a nightlife
that’ll be missed out on now
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
There actually used to be a bar in Topeka
called Tony’s Tank ‘Em Up. My friends John and Bob from Topeka told me not to go there, and they had a reputation as people you didn’t want to mess with. Bob looks like Mussolini with biceps.
"They may make cool judgements after the fact
But the name of the game is be hit and hit back" --Warren Zevon
he got battered around like Alberto Callaspo's driving record
after Callaspo ran that red light at 48th and Oak while under the influence
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
I thought we resolved the issue as being one of semantics
As long as your “sucks” is the same as my “looks like a #5 starter, kind of”, then I’m OK with that. But this season he’s got a 4.88 FIP, which is at least passable (for a #4/5), though his 5.27 xFIP looks less non-sucky.
Whether we believe this season is the true SOS or he’s just been “lucky” (if you can call it that), that’s another matter.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 29, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions
in this run environment
A 4.88 FIP/ERA OS pretty much replacement level, in other woe Worthless.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 9:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
And I've got no argument with that, it was more about what qualifies as "sucks"
once we determined we were all more or less saying the same thing, though some of us were more hopeful and some were less.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on May 29, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
in this run environment
A 4.88 FIP/ERA OS pretty much replacement level, in other words, worthless.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 9:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yay mobile posting
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 10:00 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yay mobile posting
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 10:30 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
...and actually, I wasn't thinking of you
But just to clarify further, that 4.88 FIP was before last night’s game, so he was replacement level (i.e., was worthless) before last night’s outing. His currrent FIP is 6.03, although his ERA is 6.75, so he may have had some bad luck. After all, his 2011 xFIP is only 5.42.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Really?
Now you’re taking your victory lap? After a terrible outing in a bandbox where his manager makes him take a bullet against a great hitting team? What a ninny.
by billexgordler on May 29, 2011 1:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
i take it back
He’d been pretty good right up until yesterday
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 1:57 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I guess I could have taken it before this last start
when he was at replacement level, rather than now, when he’s been worse than worthless. I guess I’m ignoring all the evidence both before and after the trade that he doesn’t suck, though. Feel free to add that in.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on May 29, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
It wouldn't surprise me if KC made a move to Omaha only to get a fresh arm
This ugly stretch started with Chen getting hurt. Who would have thought that Bruce Chen would be the anchor of the rotation?
Bruce Chen is more like the jenga piece that you can't remove without the entire thing falling apart
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
by BHWick on May 28, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Of course, if that's the case, you probably didn't manage to build the tower very high to begin with.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I may be looking way too much into this..
But remember when Jeff reported from Bloggers Day at the K (it might have been that I-70 blog guy instead, don’t remember) and that Chen said he felt ready to be throwing again but the team wouldn’t let him? At the time, I suspected the team wanted him to stay down so as not to get in the way of the young arms (and that’s about as conspiratorial as I get). If true.. bet they’d be regretting that now.
C’mon Chen!
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:25 PM EDT reply actions
Ah, Chen
Who, among our current starters, do you suppose is least likely to hand over huge leads early on? Seems like it’s happened to all of them, Francis included.
Duffy.
"That's fine wood from... somewhere."
by KeepItCopacetic on May 28, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions
So does 2012 turn into 2014?!
Trust the process or become even more cynical and numb to the obviously horrid play & bad luck of the Kansas City Royals?
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on May 29, 2011 12:01 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
So does 2012 turn into 2014?!
Trust the process or become even more cynical and numb to the obviously horrid play & bad luck of the Kansas City Royals?
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on May 29, 2011 12:02 AM EDT via mobile reply actions
I remember when we were supposed to look forward to 1998.
I wouldn’t be surprised if we play this waiting game for yet another decade.
by OnixConcepcion on May 29, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions
Well I'm in it for the long haul...
I lI’ve the underdog… It’s always a great celebration when they finally win one for the gipper
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on May 29, 2011 12:13 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
you need 10 pitchers to have 5 good pitchers
and right now I think the royals are closer to about 6 good pitchers ready
I think we are the ones who've been saying 2012
As far as I recall DM has been saying 2013 all along. So who knows how thi gs are going to go.
by Prime2U on May 29, 2011 4:35 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Just learned
that in addition to his nightly relief appearances, Collins will be throwing pregame BP to both teams.
by GrassyKnoll on May 29, 2011 1:04 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
We will need to start from scratch with the starting rotation
But, I think Duffy is piece #1. If I’m Dayton Moore, everything else must go. That’s not really that bad of a thing if we have some rookies in place. We’ve got the money to spend on two really good starters if need be. Hoch might be a decent # 5, but he might be better for the bully. I haven’t looked at the FA SP market for next year, but we should be very competitive in that market.
I need to go take a Davies and wipe my Elarton. Excuse me.
If Hoch can become an innings-eater,
like Nedders seems content on making damn sure he does just so, he’s useful. He’s not, and never will be, an ace, but if he goes 7 2/3 and gives up 4-5 runs every 5 days … we’ve trotted out much worse.
The SP are as suck as we expected
and those who imploded are never part of THE PROCESS
Their existence are simply marketing gimmicks. (SOS, Adcock, Wood)
Nothing to worry about! :D
I am probably the only Royals fan in Hong Kong?
by Yamfun Cheng Kamfun on May 29, 2011 1:29 AM EDT reply actions
I know it;s just a translation issue
But I love the idea that some Royals players’ very existence is dependent on being Royals players. I imagine a Back to the Future scenario where their photos in the stadium program disappear and so do they. I mean, think about it, how many Royals have just disappeared after they stopped being Royals? You can’t tell me that Brad Voyles or Luis Ordaz or Brian Bevil or Shane Costa were real people.
by OnixConcepcion on May 29, 2011 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions
reminder of kyle davies last 5 starts before getting hurt
he had one bad start. here are the rest: 23.1 innings, 3.86 ERA, 5 walks, 16 strikeouts. WORST PITCHER EVAR
Blake Wood's been pretty decent.
Not great, not that good, but decent, especially with the strikeouts. Sign him to 3 year extension!

















