But I Thought Relievers Didn't Work On New Pitches?

Mr. McKinney and I argued a bit about this the other day in relation to Aaron Crow. He thinks Crow is now being pigeon-holed by management as a reliever by being left in the bullpen (successful there or no). But this article shows that Jeffress is working on a new pitch, and preparing to unroll it in a game soon. So methinks Crow is also working on other things. Let's trust the process. ;) - TL

about 1 year ago timlacy 9 comments 0 recs |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

Not a new pitch

Just a different way to throw his second pitch. He’s a fastball-curveball pitcher. And when he’s been throwing that second pitch, sometimes he’s been throwing it slower. This is not the case for Crow. Crow is a fastball-slider pitcher. He also throws a curveball and changeup, but they are the poor pitches he really needs to work on to have the arsenal of a MLB starting pitcher. Now, since he’s throwing his fastball and slider almost all the time, he’d be able to tweak one of those pitches into a slightly different offering, as Jeffress has, but he won’t be able to work on his curve or change.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 3:03 PM EDT reply actions

Sounds like Jeffress considers it to be a new pitch

It’s the same grip, but thrown differently. Whether it’s a different pitch or a different way to throw the same pitch is a matter of semantics.

As for Crow, I’d be shocked if he isn’t working on pitches besides his fastball and slider in bullpen sessions. I’d also be surprised if practicing in side-sessions is as effective a way to improve a pitch as practicing in side-sessions AND using it in games. Either way, I trust Yost when he says that they’ll reevaluate Crow’s future after this season. I suspect they’ll need a starter more than they’ll need a middle reliever next spring.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 3:39 PM EDT up reply actions

Don't disagree with anything but this skips the argument of whether it is hurting Crow's chances at being a starter.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions

This.

I think the argument isn’t whether he is done being considered a starter, but whether

1)this decision to put Crow in the bullpen makes things more difficult (the answer is yes)

and

2) this decision to put Crow in the bullpen gives enough of a benefit for the 2010 season to counteract the difficulties in transitioning him back to a starter (the answer is probably no).

However, even given those two issues, I don’t personally think that it is as big a deal as some are making it to be.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 3:51 PM EDT up reply actions

The issue isn't semantics or label; it's process

What they are talking about with Jeffress is just throwing his curveball with a different velocity. That’s basically the same thing as a pitcher throwing his fastball a little slower sometimes. It doesn’t matter whether one labels it a different pitch or not. Tweaking one of the pitches you throw a lot in games is something a pitcher can do because he can get meaningful practice with it. So, as I said above, Crow would be able to tweak his fastball or slider. But since he’s not throwing his curve and change much at all in games, he doesn’t have the opportunity to improve those pitches. And without a decent third or fourth pitch, he won’t be able to be an effective starter in the majors.

Now, I have no idea what the Royals are going to do with Crow after this season. But if they move him back to starting in the minors, then what they will have done in 2011 is waste a season of his development as a starter, and likely made his third and fourth pitches worse.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions

Something else to consider...

Weren’t a lot of his issues in the minors last year been attributed to his unsuccessful attempts to throw his third and fourth pitches? I remember reading that a few times, and if true, that would mean he has already been working on them. If he couldn’t get them to work in the low minors, maybe he needs some time just throwing them in bullpen sessions and non game scenarios just to gain a feel. Wouldn’t the majors (with a major league pitching coach) be just as good a place to do that than the minors? Yeah, he isn’t getting stretched out, but maybe the Royals don’t see that as his primary issue.

I’m not sure that I believe what I said is the case, but just something to consider.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 3:56 PM EDT up reply actions

Hmm

I really don’t think throwing a pitch in bullpen sessions rather than games is the best way (or even a good way) to improve a pitch. Yes, he was unsuccessful with those pitches in the minors last year. And of course that is the case with most SP prospects. They have some weak secondary pitches and they work on them until they get good enough for them to become MLB SP’s, or they never get there and become relievers or just busts.

I just don’t see how having him not throw the pitches in games is going to be a better or even decent way of having him improve those pitches.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions

I really don’t think throwing a pitch in bullpen sessions rather than games is the best way (or even a good way) to improve a pitch. Yes, he was unsuccessful with those pitches in the minors last year.

I think it is certainly situations where learning a new pitch in bullpen sessions is a more than adequate way to improve a pitch while still getting usage on the side.

1) When first learning a new pitch, many pitchers will continue to pitch normally while first learning the basics of the new pitch outside of game day situations. This seems to be a pretty common occurrence during the off-season.

2) When a pitcher has a pitch that is well below average, he may need to learn the “feel” of the pitch before attempting to use it in competition. It might behoove him to figure out his release point, the pitch’s possible ending points, and learn how best to throw it in and out of the strike zone.

The question really is how bad do we (and the Royals) think Crow is with his third and fourth pitches. If he is mediocre, then I agree with you completely. He should be in the minors. If he is extremely bad, then I’m more unsure whether he needs to throw it in competition or not.

I just don’t see how having him not throw the pitches in games is going to be a better or even decent way of having him improve those pitches.

There is a near 0% chance that it would be a better way, no argument there. However, it may not be a huge loss having him only practice those pitches in bullpen sessions while getting some MLB value of him this season. While I personally don’t believe that the value we get out of him this season is worth the loss in development(unless we move Soria to starter, which won’t happen), The Royals obviously disagree with both of us.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 5:05 PM EDT up reply actions