Navigation: Jump to content areas:


Pro Quality. Fan Perspective.
Login-facebook
Around SBN: The Most Dangerous Division in Sports

BREAKING NEWS: Royals Call Up Eric Hosmer, Demote Kila Ka'aihue To AAA

Bob Dutton is reporting that the Royals have called up first base prospect Eric Hosmer. Hosmer will replace Kila Ka'aihue on the roster, as Ka'aihue will be sent down. Wow, do you ever wonder what it would be like to follow a normal, predictable team? This is a bold move that no one saw coming.

Obviously, this is a huge decision, with a number of major implications for the franchise. By bringing up Hosmer now, the Royals start his service time clock early, which could cost the team either money or years or both down the line. Could is important here, because there's actually a number of ways this could play out. Hosmer could be sent back down at some point, or he could be all be signed to a multi-year deal that washes these issues away. Or, it could have some pretty big financial repercussions. We don't know. Just two years ago Hosmer looked awash and lost, wandering around Delaware looking for classes. Since then, he's become one of the most prized prospects in baseball.

Year Age Tm Lev PA HR BA OBP SLG OPS
2010 20 2 Teams A+-AA 586 20 .338 .406 .571 .977
2010 20 Wilmington A+ 375 7 .354 .429 .545 .974
2010 20 Northwest Arkansas AA 211 13 .313 .365 .615 .980
2011 21 Omaha AAA 118 3 .439 .525 .582 1.107
4 Seasons 1153 29 .312 .393 .493 .886
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/5/2011.

 

This promotion can be interpreted in a number of ways. First, we can say that the youth movement, officially, has begun. Having failed arms in the bullpen was one thing. Bringing up Eric Hosmer on May 6th is an entirely different matter. Hosmer, along with five or six other guys, is one of the prospects that truly matters in the long term direction of this franchise. Yea, it was cool seeing Tim Collins and Aaaron Crow contribute. They ain't Eric Hosmer.

Second, this may be a case of a player simply forcing his way onto the roster. None of the big hitting prospects really did so in Spring Training. Hosmer, however, hit .439 for a month in AAA. That tends to get you noticed. Hosmer had an impressive 2010, but any talk of promoting him last season (which there was) seemed decidedly premature. After an insane (batting average driven) start at AAA, the Royals have decided that they've seen enough.

Thirdly, with the team kinda sorta positioning itself for a pennant run, this was a case where there was a short term, best interests of the Major League Royals, argument for promoting Hosmer. Because the flip side of this move is the demotion of Kila. Yes, after multiple avowals that the Royals would give him a season to prove himself, the Royals gave him 96 plate appearances. When you don't want to believe, you aren't going to believe. Kila's 2010 season was the equivalent of Dayton Moore politely attending the first 10 minutes of a Hindu Wedding Ceremony, then after checking his blackberry six times, gently grabbing his wife's hand and walking out.

Star-divide

Hating on Kila has been an especially active cottage industry amongst fans. I'm not sure if this day should then be celebrated or mourned. Because it would be awkward for a lot of these folks to have to focus on the failures of six or seven other guys on the roster, who aren't Moore-approved guys. You can't argue with the fact that Kila did not hit well. But I'll go down swinging on this one: you don't bury a guy after a month. At least not in a vacuum. But hey, we've been having this argument since like day four of the season, so there's really no point anymore. May everyone who has taken such joy in saying he sucks, enjoy patting yourself on the back and all that.

Nevertheless, when we round back to the previous point, the Royals may truly believe that the AL Central is winnable and that they can't experiment with Kila any longer. That makes the Kila decision partially defensible. Partially.

Thus, when you break it down, the Royals have, presumably, made a move that has long-term ramifications, with half an eye on the short term. Though I doubt they feel quite that way, since they never believed in Kila to begin with. I'm saddened by how ugly, by how predictably ugly, the Kila situation played out. For me, it's about confirmation bias as well. These are the small-minded Royals I think I know as well. 

However, again sadly, Kila is a footnote here. He's the footnote in the glorious triumph of someone else's life. Seems familiar. This is Eric Hosmer's day, the shining wunderkind loved since the moment he joined the organization. Loved and now brought into succeed.

Comment 1268 comments  |  5 recs  | 

Do you like this story?

Comments

Display:

McRIB IS BACK!!

"To quote the sensei/sorority house janitor from Nude Ninjas... 'Nothing is as it seems.'" - Some guy named "Stiadaik" from AVclub.com

by Crooow on May 5, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously?

Naw, that’s not until the fall, right?

by Tito42 on May 5, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

One secret for you all

The Process really is not some specific plan. Don’t act like Dayton violated the Process today.

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 5:50 PM EDT reply actions  

not opposing it

but this move is a gamble

Let’s not act like it’s not a dice roll

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes its a gamble

but so is watching Kila shit the bed every chance he gets. Maybe some time is Omaha will help him get this confidence back. But with the team actually playing well and only four games out I believe its irresponsible to keep running somebody out there that is failing repeatedly.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

most baseball moves are a gamble

but this is more of one because it’s a high profile move (Eric Hosmer is trending on Twitter)

Kila’s not coming back to KC from Omaha. So let’s not act like he’s going to just fix stuff

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the argument is to bring up Clint instead of Hosmer thats more debatable

Kila was failing. They had to make a move. If he never comes back that on him. He got a shot and did nothing with it. Its a vicious business.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

can

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

can't fit Clint into the plans now

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm agreeing with Will.... (big surprise)

I can recall Billy being called up and then being sent back down in 2008 to get his shit right…. or Alex Gordon a first rounder who until this year hasn’t hit over .275 for a season….Gordon’s first full season was batting for a whopping .240, with a 44 BB and 137 strikeouts….didn’t exactly set the world on fire…

Yes, Kila is 26 versus 23 when Gordon came up. But Gordon was the 1st rounder, not 15th rounder like Kila, expectations should be a little lower for Kila IMO. I can also recall people clamoring for KILA KILA KILA when one hitter or another was suffering.

I think it’s unfair to send down Kila already as he hasn’t had the big league time to adjust as others have. (This however doesn’t work in his favor now since we have a stocked minor league system that hasn’t been there in years past) (And no one said life is fair)

I will disagree with Will on one point. If you believe that Kila is being dumped simply for not being a Dayton Moore acquisition. Then Billy and Alex should also be in that same boat. One has be singed thru his free agency start, the other has been given every chance to succeed and finally shows the promise of what was supposed to be there from the get go after FOUR years.

I hope this is not the last we’ve seen of Kila in the organization. I certainly hope that if we are not longer in contention at the ASB that Kila is brought back up and Hosmer sent back down to allow Kila more time to develop at the MLB level and to slow down the clock on Hosmer.

The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters

by kd_in_kc on May 5, 2011 9:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not a huge fan of this move

I think Dayton believes that we can contend this season, which I personally disagree with. This move, however, did make this season a hell of a lot more interesting.

by Connor Moylan on May 5, 2011 5:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Same for me

As Hosmer only has 300+ plate apperances above single A, too, it makes me wonder. But now that it’s done, well, heck…by all means, let’s check him out.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow.

I’d have given it another month to get past the super-2 deadline, but I’m still excited to see our top prospect in action.

In other news, do we take this as a big signal that the Royals think they’re in contention this year?

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I understand the service time thing, but with Homer in the line-up, and since we're in the hunt

right now, why not try to win the division….THIS year too. The chemistry is pretty damn good right now, and when you take away a guy that won’t hit and never smiles, with one who does and is hitting .439, that can only make this team closer to contending…now.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I prefer my team to be ran with rational well thought out actions

instead of knee jerk we are in this thing 31 games in

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i'm not sure

that you can argue that this move wasn’t rational.

there are two reasonable arguments, sure, but defensible.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly.

We are 31 games in and didn’t even make it to 18-11. The only way we stay in contention is if Duffy and Monty come up and excel.

by BrRoyal on May 5, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rational well thought out actions...

like replacing the deadweight we had at first?

You can't live that American dream on foot, bro. Aint nobody riding horses no more.

by HIV 2 Elway on May 6, 2011 1:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great day to be a Royals fan.

Sucks to be Kila Pickering, though.

WILSON BETEMIT = RATINGS

by JobDDT on May 5, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions  

haha, i like it

i would like to have a photographic memory, but it never developed

by beltran42 on May 6, 2011 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

So much for Moore handling top prospects wisely

I wonder how many prospects are going to have a year of service time completely wasted this year.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 5:53 PM EDT reply actions  

Why wasted?

If we somehow contend this year, because of them then how can you define that wasted? So one less contract year? I’ll take that in exchange for a chance at the division.

by KCTiger on May 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because there's no reason to believe the Royals will somehow contend this year

The Royals really don’t have a chance at the division. Or even a winning record.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

They do if you start bringing people up

Especially with how well our bullpen is performing.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nearly all prospects struggle when first called up

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guys just give up and listen.

NYRoyal is always correct. Just listen and learn!

just fuckin’ wiff ya NYR.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

First Season

If you think that ‘12 is the year to contend and prospects don’t perform well in their first seasons, doesn’t it make sense to get that first season out of the way this year? Bringing a guy or two up every month or so as they earn it in Omaha seems the right thing to do in preparation for ‘12. As each new guy will likely be better than the guy he replaces, no reason to expect a major drop-off from the current .500 ball. I’m thinking Duffy comes up next with Francis DL’ed, as he seems to be getting the arm fatigue thing. Monty can’t throw strikes, so Teaford may be next if the wheels fall off SOS.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dunno I could see them go with Mazzaro before Duffy

The main concern I have with the pitchers this years is that they would have a huge jump in innings pitched. Injury concerns are a valid reason to slow a prospect down, service time…. not so much.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

2012 is the first outside chance at maybe contending

But still very much not likely unless Moore brings in several good FA’s (which is unlikely for cash and competence reasons). So 2012 is a good season to give a bunch of rookies a season of adjustment.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absolutely Not

“But still very much not likely unless Moore brings in several good FA’s”

That would be the dumbest possible move to do when the minors are stacked and the club has a reasonable opportunity to develop a home-grown club. But it would guarantee that the club would have no chance to keep their own people when they get pricy, blowing $20 or $30 million on FAs. Ask Milwaukee how that’s working as you ponder Jeffress’ two innings and Escobar’s usual day at the office or look at JaKKKKKe’s last few starts. Use the kids, stay cheap, save money, keep the kids when it’s time, win games for a long time.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

which is the argument to keep Hosmer

and others down in Omaha

CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal

by kabrink on May 5, 2011 11:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Omaha

doesn’t win games in KC, which is, after all, the purpose of the whole thing. I expect that we’ll see several more follow Hos up by the trade deadline as the team stays competitive and the kids get some experience in contention. We’ll have a lot of the ’13 team on the field by August of this year. The future is now.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 6, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed.

He aint’ hitting no .439 up in the big show.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

He might slug that!

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't early struggles a reason to promote earlier?

If 2013/4 is our window before we start losing Butler, Soria, and the other young talents, don’t we want to start getting guys up this year so that they can make adjustments and be ready to contribute on contenders in 2013/4?

Scott, did your study differentiate development curves depending on how many PAs a player got in his first year?

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 2:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

so

let’s just “rush” them all up here? sounds like a great developmental plan.

CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal

by kabrink on May 5, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

The reason to hope (read: not believe, hope) is the rest of the division

If we subscribe to the Royals not being as good as their record, then it’s silly to turn around and believe the Indians are as good as their record. That’s not logic, that’s pessimism.

And for the record, I don’t think the Royals will be good, but it also seems to be shaping up that the rest of the AL Central might not be very good. If it becomes a scrum, the Royals have a shot, albeit slim.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Sure, there’s always hope. But a GM needs to think with his head, not his heart.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

And I'm with you on that

But again, let’s think…losing 2018? If DM hasn’t reloading on a 1B/DH hitting prospect by then, he needs to quit his job.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let’s not pretend that it is easy to just pick up a genuinely good, cost controlled 1B…or at any position.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

But let's not pretend that we should worry about a seventh year on a cost-controlled guy

Because we don’t have someone to replace him in the system yet.

Besides, what are the legitimate possibilities of re-signing Hosmer after his cost-controlled years?

And Butler is sure to be gone by then, as is Gordon, so whats the point?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course the Royals should worry about the 7th year on a cost-controlled guy

Of course they should! Are you kidding? Not being able to re-sign him is exactly why the Royals need that cost controlled 2018 season. What on earth do Butler and Gordon have to do with Hosmer’s 2018 season? Nothing.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rewind yourself

What I said was we shouldn’t worry that we won’t have any talent for 2018 just because we don’t have a guy in the system that will fill in in 2018 if Hosmer isn’t retained or re-signed, in reference to an earlier post.

Gordon and Butler have nothing to do with Hosmer’s 2018 season at all, other than the fact that they probably won’t be here, which is my point.

Maximizing your influx of talent is part and parcel to building a winner. Having a string of an above average/good/great player on a mediocre team isn’t going to get it done. Putting your best possible talent on the field at the same time is what is important.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Your counterpoint makes no sense

Why are you going to worry about Hosmer’s 2018, then? We have no idea if he’s genuinely good now, right? 300+ pa’s in AA and AAA — we should still be worried about IF he’s any good, period, following your logic.

Give any GM six years to find a good hitting prospect at 1B/DH, and any of them worth a damn should feel like they should be able to do that.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, no, no

If he sucks it makes no difference when he gets called up. But if he’s good, then this season is a waste of his service time. Maybe Moore could find a good replacement. And if he does so, every penny spent on that player is a penny less that can be spent elsewhere. It hurts the team significantly, no matter how good DM is at evaluating and acquiring MLB talent (and he hasn’t been good so far).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is a waste of his service time if we don't compete this year

But even still, by all measures he had no development left to be had.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is an absurd statement

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Indeed

Signed

Alex Gordon

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Those pennies are going to be spent, regardless

Whether on Hosmer, Moustakas, Duffy, Montgomery, Myers…if they’re all ready next year, why not bring them all up at the same time, then watch as we look to sign maybe one of them around 2018, if the Royals are lucky.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Or we could have them all for 2018 for less than market value

Which of course would make more sense and leave money for other players.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, that's dumb

…c’mon, Scott, if they’re any good, they’d be signed WELL before then. Nobody with any sense would wait until 2018 and then BOOM, free-for-all.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Signed to a longer deal, that is

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because any good player can be extended just because the organization wants it?

And how long we have a player cost controlled signficantly affects how long we could have the player even if extended.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

So

They’re just going to wait until 2018-2019, then, and let it be some kind of free-for-all?

If you’re smart, you’re trying to sign them early and get them cheaper than they’ll be if they’re good all the way until you lose control of them.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure, that's what you'd like to do

but players are aware of this stragey as well, and a high bonus guy like hosmer has more freedom to wait it out

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

And that's fine, too

Because since the Royals aren’t the Yankees, there’s a chance most of the money needed for Hosmer could already be spent on more tractable players, ones that don’t mind signing a deal a bit earlier.

In which case, trade him for more prospects in 2017.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

In order to get good prospects for him

The Royals would have to trade him a couple years before FA (like with Greinke). So now that he’s been called up, that means after the 2015 season. Wait to call him up until April 2012 and it would be after the 2016 season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's not true, is it?

It seems like people pay good prospects for one year rentals.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Such as?

Look at the Johann Santana trade. One season, meh prospects and not even the Met’s #1 prospect in the deal.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adrian Gonzalez?

Cliff Lee?
Teixeira?

I asked it as a question, because I wasn’t sure. I just remember anecdotally about a lot of those types of trades.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

The big piece the Rangers got for Tex

was Salty… And he is awful

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Texas got Adrian Gonzalez

for Ugueth Urbina, so there is always that.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay, that's fine, too

try and get a 1B prospect in return for him, or target it as an organizational need and just try to get max value. It’s a dance done every year…the Royals aren’t exempt from playing that game, and they’d be looking at trading him in 2018 for the same nothing if they’re faced w/ the prospect of losing control of him AND not being able to resign him.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Missing the point.

Isn’t the point is if he waited one more month, we could have him in 2017 and trade him for more prospects in 2018? By having the delusion now we are contending AND Hosmer will help, we are trading one month now for all of 2018. Dumb Dumb Dumb!

by play4'ships on May 5, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

No

In order to have him for 2018, we’d have to wait till mid-April next season to call him up. It’s up to you to decide whether that would have been a reasonable thing to do. Scott thinks it’s the ONLY reasonable option. I think it would have been absurd.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 8:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why absurd?

Because fans are impatient? Because it would have upset a 21-year-old prospect who has little time in the high minors (which I doubt)? And do these things outweight wasting a service time year in a lost season?

Mostly it seems like people are saying, “It’s absurd because you call a prospect up whenever he’s ready. And don’t bother me with service time issues or the fact that this is a losing, rebuilding season. I want to see Hosmer play!” Sounds like emotional reactions, impatience and gimme-gimme-gimme.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm a believer that you call up a prospect when he's ready

You can fudge a month, but you can’t fudge a year. Screwing a player out of a year’s MLB salary drains motivation from the player and every other player in your system, hurts your working relationship with agents, the player’s union, and MLB, and makes it more difficult to sign future prospects.

You need to have an organizational policy that is fair to your players and abides by league standards.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is there a team that doesn't game service time, though?

I don’t think it’s particularly a threat to any one team’s relationship with the parties you mentioned given the prevalence of the practice.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I believe there are rules against delaying promotions for ‘non-baseball’ reasons. You need to at least have a reasonable baseball explanation for your financial manipulations.

It’s common to call up a prospect in June instead of May to push arbitration back, but as far as I know, it is not common to keep a consensus top 10 prospect tearing the cover off the ball in AAA for a year+ with a clear opening for that player on the MLB roster. It’s different degrees. In this case, if the Royals let Hosmer hit .400 all year in AAA with Kila hitting .200, I suspect Boras would at least try to get the league involved.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

He's not a unionized player

Until he is on the 40 man. He basically has to suck it.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Managing payroll

Sounds like a “baseball reason” to me

by Tito42 on May 5, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you are a psychologist?

with immense knowledge on the inner workings of the athletes mind?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

well fudging a month is highly relevant in this case

It’s not like Hosmer’s spent two years in AAA here.

Its May 6th

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the Royals waited to call him up until he was 22 years old

…he would have given up. He would have quit on the Royals. And the rest of the Royals prospects would have done the same thing.

These guys want to win and they want to be MLB successes. And if they don’t get it as soon as they think they deserve it, then they quit and give half-assed efforts.

[I hope this adequately shows how foolish this argument is.]

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

The argument isn’t foolish—the unreasonable extreme to which you took it is the problem. Players won’t give up—they’ll just lose some amount of motivation if you put them in a sitauation that fails to motivate them.

If you know that you’ll get the same reward whether you work 80 hour weeks or 40 hour weeks, how many hours will you work? This analogy applies to Hosmer—he’ll get promoted in 2012 unless he falls off the planet—but it’s also about living by a general promotion policy that fairly rewards its players.

Taking your opinion that players should only called up when the team is ready to contend to a ridiculous extreme, Carlos Beltran would still be in the minors if there weren’t limits on option years.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 9:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Players won’t give up—they’ll just lose some amount of motivation if you put them in a sitauation that fails to motivate them.

If they thought that their play had nothing to do with ever getting called to the majors, then yes. But let’s look at what we’re talking about here. In my “absurd” proposal, a 21-year-old prospect has to spend one seaosn in AAA before being called up in the first month of his age 22 season. Do you think prospects would see this as proof that their performance is irrelevant and that they can work hard and play well and they’ll still never make it to the majors?

This analogy applies to Hosmer—he’ll get promoted in 2012 unless he falls off the planet

No, he has to perform well this season and prove that he’s MLB-ready in order to get promoted in mid-April 2012. As he’s only had one month of AAA time, he still has the opportunity to truly prove that he is MLB-ready, or that he is not. If he tanked in the remainder of the season, I wouldn’t call him up in April 2012.
Taking your opinion that players should only called up when the team is ready to contend to a ridiculous extreme, Carlos Beltran would still be in the minors if there weren’t limits on option years

No, if a team is nowhere near contending and they have top prospects ready to come up, then I’d game their service time much as I would Hosmer, but I wouldn’t go farther than that. I think at some point it does become absurd (like leaving a good prospect in AAA until he’s 25 or 26, as they did with Kila), but waiting one year (especially a young players one and only year at AAA) until the team is closer to maybe being contending-quality is certainly reasonable.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hosmer doesn’t have to work to improve in order to be promoted in 2012. He could probably cut a couple workouts per week and add 20 pounds of Chipotle weight and still get promoted. He won’t do that, but your proposed system would at least encourage that line of thinking.

Whenever you create a disconnect between production and reward, you’re reducing incentive. Screwing Hosmer for a year isn’t going to destroy anything, but in my opinion, you should create a system that is fair to the players and live by it.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hosmer doesn’t have to work to improve in order to be promoted in 2012. He could probably cut a couple workouts per week and add 20 pounds of Chipotle weight and still get promoted.

I thought we were talking about my “absurd” plan. If we’re talking about reality, all he needs to do in order to get called up is show up for the plane that takes him to KC. In my plan, he would have to continue to show that he’s MLB-ready, because if he’s not ready, he’s not getting called up.

Whenever you create a disconnect between production and reward, you’re reducing incentive. Screwing Hosmer for a year isn’t going to destroy anything, but in my opinion, you should create a system that is fair to the players and live by it.

They get called up when they appear to be ready and the team is ready for them. Is that fair? I think so, given that what is best for the team outweighs what is best for individual players. That is the very nature of team sports. That is more fair than players getting less than market value for their first 6-7 MLB seasons (which I think is also acceptable).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

“He would have to continue to show that he’s MLB-ready.”

This is my point—he doesn’t have to work to improve in order to earn a promotion at the start of 2012. By all accounts, he could regress a little and still be MLB-ready. By removing any possibility of promotion this year, you would remove an incentive for him to work as hard as he could.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because he would know that he's getting called up regardless?

What makes you think he would know this? Don’t you think he’d be hungry to get the call and would work hard to perform better and better? It’s not like in my plan, I’d give him and his agent a phone call and say, “hey you’re getting promoted on April 20, 2012. Just thought you’d like to know.”

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I'd have given the situation another month

I’m pretty surprised by the decision. If it’s not accompanied by some plan to fix the starting rotation, I think it’s a mistake to call Hosmer up before the super-2 deadline. In either case, I don’t think waiting until May 2012 was a reasonable option.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes you try to extend the ones good enough

And some may agree. Some won’t.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alright, well...we're not miles apart, here

But I just don’t place as much importance on the 2018 I can’t predict. Again, I don’t think the callup was warranted on a few different levels, but if he’s went ahead and done it, I’m not going to stress over 2018…just too many variables.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure many variables

2018 might be a shit season. But what we should know is that 2011 is a lost season. And therefore there’s no reason to burn one of his finite service years on a lost season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hear you

But a GM has to look at how good the team is likely will be for the whole season. Is this going to be a contending season? It’s Moore’s business to not hope for the best, but to plan for reality and act accordingly.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

couldn't agree more

I don’t know why you would trade away Greinke AND bring up Hosmer early in the same year.

If he thought we were going to compete, the Greinke trade made little sense.

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

April has changed his mind

Which is one of the worst indictments of Moore.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

which is also one of the worst indictments of Moore

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

And like Will said,

he’s represented by Boras…the gouger…the man tries to bleed every team dry for his clients…good luck getting him resigned on the cheap.

The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters

by kd_in_kc on May 5, 2011 9:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

is it awkward

that your primary argument here will be dealt with in seven years? do you think that maybe, just maybe, we should focus a bit more on the present and associated implications?

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

A smart GM recognizes where his team is

And if this is a lost season it makes no sense to waste a year of a top prospect’s service time on it. So he’s trading a year in which the Royals might be in contention for one in which he should know that they are not. it’s really that simple.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

didn't he say this season was already lost

last fall?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure, that's great in the abstract

but a smart gm also knows that losing games is not great.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

and in real life

every season is a lost season when you insist on playing terrible players and keeping talented players in the minor.

i think this whole argument is awfully simple when reduced to basic, objective facts.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

i give you it's a lost season

and most prospects don’t do well their first year in the big leagues. So couldn’t this move be looked at as a year of development for Hosmer against MLB pitching. The best way to learn to hit MLB pitching is to bat against MLB pitching. just a thought. don’t really like the lost year but whatev

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

While the Royals might contend in 2012

…it’s still a reach. So I wouldn’t burn a service time year so the Royals can go all-in on 2012. Call up the good prospects who are ready in 2012, have them do their best and maybe you contend. REgardless, things look really good for 2013 when the team would have its best chance to contend.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you were against a June callup for hosmer?

it’s 100% he was getting called up this season. a 2012 callup is dreaming.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dreaming?

Dreaming that Moore would do the smart thing? I guess so? You are pretending that every GM on every team, regardless of the team’s situation, calls up any and every top prospect who looks MLB-ready. They don’t. Sometimes they wait…when it makes the most sense for the organization.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

IF Hosmer kept piling up the numbers in Omaha

there would have been a lynch mob outside the K if they didn’t call him up.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Describe that in practical, real world terms

Most fans would have been pissed off and wanted him called up. Talk radio would have been whining. That’s it. There you go. A GM ignores the rabble and does what is best for the organization.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Look...

let’s just agree that Hosmer is Moore’s toy and if he can’t play with it, then he’s just going to go home and play by himself.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

You don't think this sells

a bunch of tickets to tomorrow’s game? Baseball is a business.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sure it might sell tickets to tomorrow's game

Do I think it significantly increases the year’s attendance over keeping him in Omaha? No.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Winning a few more games

and having young likeable guys on the team will. This is the tip of the iceberg that most Royals fans have been hearing about for 6 years now. People will come Scott, people will come.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

People loved Gordon too

for about three days.

then he was a bust

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

yes.

moore was going to call him up. right or wrong. he was. it’s reality.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's the reality for a poor GM

And that is our sad reality.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some do. Some don't.

I’m just saying even if this move by Moore was inevitable, it doesn’t mean it shouldn’t be criticized.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

how many top prospects have been held down for almost a year after they were ready?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 9:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Already asked.

Scroll down some.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i get this

and a move like today’s looks like a precursor to going ‘all-in’ now, and that’s why overall to me it looks like a bad time to make any move at all this drastic. looks like a bad poker player pushing too many chips out too early and justifying it later with the moronic statement “I was pot-committed” …

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

This.

My worry about calling up Hos is the implication that we will have to call up other players to truly compete. Calling up Hos is Moore saying that we are ready this year, so this affects more players than just Hos.

Is this a bad thing? I lean toward yes, but I’m not entirely sure.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

it is tough to say...

its somewhere between short-sided and a reasonable gamble

but hey, the organization has no concept of sample size, and we’re 17-14

Hosmer’s age 28 season be damned

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I've heard 28 years old players

haven’t even hit their prime years yet, so who cares?

/Moorean

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's Frenchy?

27?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

17-14<18-11

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly don't know what I think of this call up.

My opinion is going to be based on what else Moore does. The 2018 Hosmer argument is pretty irrelevant to me; however, the Moore is going to start calling up everyone is extremely relevant.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thiink that is a part of it

I think this was a perfect storm (hate that cliche)

-Hosmer was hitting .500 or wahtever
-Kila was awful
-team was sorta in it

then again, half the pitching staff could be upgraded

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fixed

then again, half 4/5 of the pitching staff could be upgraded

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

C'mon Chen=ACE!

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I said 4/5!!!!

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactely.

But did you mean Chen?!?!

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Master Chen

to us mere mortals. Maybe Milwaukee would have given us an extra two prospects if it had been Master Chen instead of Greink:)?

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Davies

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

hahhah

Yep, it could have been Davies.

I knew it wasn’t, but….

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Going all in on the 2011 season by calling up a bunch of prospects

Would truly be massively incompetent. This team isn’t close.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

different view?

Hope this isn’t something someone else has already posted… I agree with alot of what you are saying with service time and not waisting it, but there will probably be 3 or 4 more “big time prospects” called up this year right? Couldn’t bringing them up at different times durring the year make it so they are not all due for extensions the same year? Thats got to have some value with this teams money issues in the future right?

by rich04 on May 5, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

"Going all in on the 2011 season by calling up a bunch of prospects"

We already have a bunch of prospects, we call them the ‘bullpen’. Then there’s the two short-timers in the middle and I doubt you’ll be grieved to get Cain and Lough up, or even Gio, should the trades work right. Process won’t be an avalanche, it will be a steady flow.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's turn on the tap at the right time

For middling players like relievers and guys like Cain, sure call them up whenever they are ready. No reason to game their service time at all. But for top prospects who genuinely have high ceilings, then do the smart thing. Do what is best for the organization. Don’t just give in to impatience.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Less Impatiance

than timely seasoning. With stud pitchers especially, they can hit the ground running fast, which favors someone like Duffy. Position players, I don’t see anyone compelling beyond Clint Robinson at the moment. I would hope Gio goes nuts leading up to ASB, I like the kid and would like to see him brought up. We’ll see, great thread, Scott:) Thanks.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gload says

rewind yourself, Scott!

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that's just plain wrong. Especially with Hosmer now in the lineup.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

We've got pitching call-ups for June, July & August that can keep us in contention.

84-78 is about what I’m thinking.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like garden variety fan optimism. There’s no reason to believe the Royals could possibly win that many games. I can’t make a case for 80 wins.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Good bullpen

Good offense? No, definitely not good.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Royals are 5th in the MLB in wOBA

The only player that’s playing way above his head right now is Francoeur. While we’ll likely lose some offense from the hot hitters, I expect that added offensive production from Escobar, Pena, Betemit playing more than Getz, and Hosmer hitting better than Kila will offset those losses. The Royals might not stay a top 5 offense, but I’d be surprised if they don’t finish in the top half.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Royals will very likely be a below average offensive team this year, despite the current SSS. That is unless past performance for these players means nothing.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is unless past performance for these players means nothing.

Means nothing if a significant change in approach and swing is made. Gordon is an example, Frenchy, and Master Chen for the pitchers. What do you expect from Chen based on his history? Royals are over .500 now, Hosmer is at least a better defender than Kila, Francis looks ready for DL with Duffy coming up, and there isn’t enough past performance from Escobar and Getz to predict much on. The future is now.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

MYERS NOW

MONTGOMERY NOW
DWYER NOW

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

who used to have the sig line

KILA NOW!

!!?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please explain how you reach that conclusion

The median AL wOBA right now is .316. The Royals current wOBA is .340.

The median AL wOBA will likely raise as the summer rolls in since April is usually a bad month for offense, but the Royals will benefit from this as well.

And while some players have so far hit better than they likely will for the rest of the season (Frenchy, Gordon, Betemit), others will likely improve (Escobar, Pena if he gets playing time, Hosmer over Kila, Cain over Melky). I think the Royals offense is likely to take a step back relative to the league, but they’ve got a long way to fall before they’re below average.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Okay...

lets set the over/under at .340 for the rest of the year, I’ll take the under, what are you betting?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, but his point is still valid.

If we drop to an wOBA of .325, what then?

The true over/under should be at the median of .316.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll take the over on a .316

But an under on .340.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Me too.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm looking at projections

And the projections have changed a bit given April performance, but April performance isn’t everything. It is one (fairly small) data point. They have a lot of time left to fall below average. I am confident that they will. I think the numbers support me.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

If the numbers support you, where does the 24 point gap go?

Has the league (excepting the Royals) been massively unlucky? Have the Roylas hitters, on the whole, been massively lucky? How much can Frenchy falling back to earth bring us down? Don’t you expect improved performance from SS, CF and 1B compared to what we got in April?

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 7:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

at 1B sure

not sure about SS and CF

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe not CF. It depends how you feel about Cain vs Melky. I think Cain will be a substantial upgrade, but I guess I wouldn’t be surprised if Cain’s bat isn’t much better. He should at least offer better defense.

As for SS, I feel pretty confident that Escobar can improve on his April numbers. He doesn’t have power, but he doesn’t get dominated by pitchers like TPJ did. I just don’t see his BABIP staying at .250. He’s shown signs of life the last few days—I see an empty .255 batting average the rest of the way.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

You "project" them not to have a good offense for the remainder

or you somehow believe what they’ve done so far isn’t sufficent?

WILSON BETEMIT = RATINGS

by JobDDT on May 5, 2011 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

They don't project to be an above average offense

Taking one month of stats into account, as well as recent years.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Weren't we top 5 in hits last year?

with MITCH playing almost everyday. C’mon Scott it is shit or get off the pot time. 7 years from now is a long freaking time.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s just fan impatience. That’s not how a smart FA should think or act.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously this is genious
we’re arguing about freakin’ sports

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

So don't. There are optimistic fans and pessemistic fans.

I have had no reason to be optimistic and have not been since 1985. And now, that I have a little bit, a moderator on one of my team’s fan sites, wants to squash it like a bug and remove the teensy bit of hope that it took me 25 years to get back.

Good for you Scott.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

You can be excited about this season

and about Hosmer as a player, without approving of the move from a rational standpoint.

You’re conflating criticism with cynicism.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's where I'm at.

Probably a rush-job, probably letting emotions take over.

I think he probably needed about 500 more PAs, too. Remember how Alex Gordon just crushed the shit out of the ball in the minors? Yeah, me too. It was like I was waiting for a highly anticipated album whose release date is endlessly pushed back. I think the FO is to blame.

But still, there’s nothing I can do about it.

Now I’m excited to see the guy play, really excited. Ready for the analysis. This is the biggest hitting prospect we’ve had since Gordon/Butler, and I think people expect that Hosmer is even better.

"To quote the sensei/sorority house janitor from Nude Ninjas... 'Nothing is as it seems.'" - Some guy named "Stiadaik" from AVclub.com

by Crooow on May 5, 2011 11:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

So you are comparing Alex Gordon to Chinese Democracy?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2011 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

this is the first post i’ve read from you where you aren’t being a jackass, well done joking obviously

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

what has Hosmer done at the big league level to make you think he can carry a team to the playoffs?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who said that? I'm saying replacing Kila with Hosmer can only help. And that's

all I said.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's all you said?

I thought you said that with Hosmer, this is a 87-win team.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we can do that...with or without him...but with him can only

increase the odds. Is it ok to have an opinion on RR?

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, and it is ok for others to disagree with your opinion.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

AHAHAHAhhahahahahhahahah

you think this is an 87 win team. Im done

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

good.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

It's no fun talking to ya anyway.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

87 wins might be stretching it

but hey if the Chiefs can do it overnight, then so can the Royals. I say bring em up and lets keep on winning!

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey jrcnc...glad to hear from someone positive

for a change. Don’t be a stranger over on AP.

Watch out for the lynch mobs.

I’m outta here. Poof.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

haha I still check out AP

just not to much commenting anymore, usually to busy to jump in the threads these days

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Early season this year

is pretty much a joke — 30 of 47 games or whatever at home, against pretty beatable competition.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you a Hosmer hater or something?

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, he’s just realistic about prospects and how oftne they fail, and how much they usually contribute in their first season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

^this

that’s internet lingo right?

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 6:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

dick=penis
bust=breasticles

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

He was just telling me the same thing about you "average".

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

so am I. Hosmer is a little better....in my opinon...than the average prospect.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

So... like Pete Incavalia, or like Jeff Francouer?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

God I'm glad I'm not you.

It’s pretty tough inside of that skin ain’t it?

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do me a favor and stay here.

I’m leaving. Thanks for the memories Scott.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im not Scott

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, Will, thank you.

I was about to go on one of my patented “In the Defense of RR” tirades. You know, the kind that make you feel mildly uncomfortable.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on May 5, 2011 8:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I mostly come to this site

to see the newbies get chewed up and spit out.

Now with 30% less snark!

by Karte on May 5, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Should they not be disagreed with?

Or must they be handled with kid gloves? And why don’t I get handled with kid gloves then? My mother told me I’m special.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh, oh yeah?

well, bllllllttttttffffffffffttttttttt to you

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on May 5, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

That WAS the sarc font, no?

But seriously, you are trained as a lawyer and enjoy the back-and-forth.

Me? Not so much. I mostly read what others write.

I am excited to see what Hosmer can do, and I am definitely not worried about 2018.

Now with 30% less snark!

by Karte on May 5, 2011 11:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's unfortunate that some see my argument as "worrying about 2018"

If you can have a player for a losing season or a season where you have no idea if the team is going to contend or not, which would you choose? In the latter choice, the player might contribute to a contender. In the former, his performance is wasted on a losing team.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

My only knock on you...

Is that you can come of very “dickish” and it almost seems that you are of the mind that you can’t be wrong… Which hell I rarely disagree with you, and on the rare occasion I do you tend to win me over with some of your “analysis”

I would say that perhaps you should avoid phrases like “stupid move” and replace them with things like “not the best move” would be less polarizing, and there is more potential to sway people with that type of wording.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2011 12:16 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

That's fair

But at least when I’m talking about Royals moves, I want to call a spade a spade. If I think it was stupid, I’m going to say it was stupid. I don’t really care if my strong statement polarizes. Some bad moves by Moore or Yost are little things and I should describe them as such. But I don’t think this was a little thing. So describing it as “not the best move” would imply that Moore as just a little off from the optimal move. I think he was way, way off. I think this was stupid with significant long-term costs to the team.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

I think your analysis is almost always right on

What makes it harder to swallow, for me, is that you sometimes pair it with some mind-reading. Laying out the reasons why this is a bad move is excellent. Speculating as to what motivates Dayton diminishes it.

And then others jump in and we get a battle between people who think the Royals are going to win the division and people who think that Dayton did this to appease the people on Facebook. I’m not sure which statement is stupider.

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

Hopefully I’m clear that the mind reading is just speculation on my part.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

I just think it makes the solid analysis look like speculation

Or something.

Cheap analysis poisons the good analysis it accompanies.

Plus, it encourages dumb lines of argument about what DM’s motives are.

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just so I know what you’re talking about, what kind of speculation about what Moore is thinking did I do in this Hosmer promotion discussion?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 2:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's times like these that 1200 comment threads give me a headache

I unjustly accused you I think.

There were a bunch of comments early in this thread to the effect that DM was only doing this because he thought we’d compete this year, but you didn’t join in that speculation.

I think your comments in the last hour about DM not only not looking at stats but not even employing anyone to look at them that caused me to lump you in with the DM mind readers.

Anyway, my apologies.

I think your analysis here has been good.

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 2:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Better than say

Brandon Belt? Who destroyed minor league pitching?

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

who would that be?

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on May 5, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you really think

We are going to contend?

We are 17-14 with a weak, home dominated schedule behind us and the worst pitching the AL.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

If the Royals can add 2 good starting pitchers, who in the division is clearly better than the Royals?

The offense is solid and the division is weak. Duffy, Monty, Crow, trade acquisition—just need a couple improvements in the starting rotation, and the team has a shot.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Way too many if's there

Duffy has to get perform well in the majors. Monty has to perform well in the majors despite his massive control problems in AAA. Crow has to turn into a MLB starter this season despite having only two pitches. And still significant holes would remain.

And people shouldn’t expect the Sox, Twins and Tigers to all continue to suck all season long. SSS

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not that many ifs

The Royals need to add 2 good starting ptichers to look like real contenders. I was just listing some possibile options that might fit the bill. A trade could get them half way.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 6:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

So all this team needs is 2 good SP's to become approx. an 86-win team?

I don’t buy that for a second. I don’t think the numbers support it. And I don’t think getting two good SP’s is that easy.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

the quality of baseball being played in this division

will crown a mid 80s win championship.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

An 83 win team would be a reasonable contender in this division

And I think 2 good starting pitchers would make this an 83 win team. This is a better team than we predicted coming into the season.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is very unlikely that the winner of this division will have 83 wins

You are making the same mistake with the rest of the division that you are with the Royals. You are looking at one month of data and deciding that is how good each of the teams are. One or more teams is going to rise to the top and have a pretty good win total.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

how many is it roing to be? 97?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

safe answer.

Hell couldn’t Detroit still get there?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Minnesota could still get there

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm learning. It's taking time, but I'm learning.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll be shocked if the Twins finish ahead of the Indians

The idea that the Twins have a better shot to get to 86 games than the Indians is, in my opinion, ridiculous.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 7:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not concerned about Morneau

I’d like to see what ends up happening with Mauer’s health

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 10:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

You misunderstood me

A true talent 83 win team is a reasonable contender. 83 wins might not do it, but a team with 83 win talent can easily win 85 or 86 games with some luck. A 30% chance is plenty to go on.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't think the division is truly so bad that a 83-win team has a 30% chance of winning the division

On average a 83-win team has a miniscule chance of getting into the playoffs. The Royals chances this year wouldn’t be a ton better than average.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

A true talent 83 win team doesn't win 83 games every time

Sometimes it wins 79, sometimes it wins 87.

And if you played this year out from this point a million times, I’d guess that a good chunk of those outcomes would leave you with a division winner having less than 85 wins. This is a bad division.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

You've been worshiping a bottome feeder for so long...you're

incapable of recognizing when we’re on the cusp. Hosmer, and the call-ups in the second half, could mean a division crown, this year, whether you can recognize it or not. This team could contend this year, albeit, with a revolving door of bull-pen talent.

I won’t be back until October, we’ll talk then. Just remember this conversation….rookie.

"The 3-4 defense is what the Giants used to play. There was a nose tackle, two defensive ends lined up on the tackles, two outside linebackers and then two [inside linebackers], both covering the guards. One of those linebackers is a fourth rusher. That is the 3-4 — the only 3-4 defense." ~Charlie Weis

by TheK-man on May 5, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

AHAHAHahahahahahah

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

16 games vs. 162 games.
wow

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

you really need to learn proper use of the sarc font

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah i know

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like you.

You’re funny.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

We won't contend

Starting rotation is abysmal. It won’t improve in time this year.

Still a good move. I will go down swinging with my belief that Kila had plenty of opportunity to prove himself.

The key to me is that I do not believe you can say a player needs “x” number of PAs to have had a fair shot. The number of appropriate PAs has to be a function of the relative suckage of the player in question. Kila was horrible. I’m sorry but it was time to move on.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base. — Dave Barry

by ChangingSpeeds on May 5, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

yea...

we’ve been talking about the offense so much more, but the real issue is the pitching staff

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 10:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's like a pretty girl

sure she’s hot and has huge tits, but she also has herpes. both issues need to be addressed

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

did you expect Hosmer to be in the Minors all year?

did you not notice that Hosmer left AA after 211 PA? did you not notice how quickly Gordon and Butler came up under Moore?

I’M SHOCKED…. SHOCKED… that Moore is doing something that Yost made inevitable with how Yost shitlisted Kila last week (and Yost benching Kila in 5 of 9 games too).

It was inevitable. And it’s a mercy killing by the organization

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I gave Moore the benefit of the doubt. My bad.

And yeah, he should have stayed in the minors all season and half of April 2012. This is a truly stupid move on at least two fronts.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

"all season and half of April 2012"

Fucking absurd.

WILSON BETEMIT = RATINGS

by JobDDT on May 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed

Good luck signing him long-term after that!

by Royal(e) with Cheese on May 5, 2011 5:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure....if serious.

Just kidding. I know you’re kidding.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Absurd?

Because it makes sense to waste the 2011 season on him and give up the 2018 season? Because a player’s best years are usually age 23-29? Sounds like you’re thinking with the short-term gimme-gimme-gimme fan mindset.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

There's a happy middle ground, somewhere

It doesn’t have to be “smart” or “absurd”. I wouldn’t have done it now, but I can see DM doing it in a few more weeks if Hosmer was still destroying AAA.

If you believe in yourself as a GM, you’re not gonna worry about 2018…you would believe you’re going to reload at that position by then, right?

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'f you believe in yourself as a GM???

I’m sorry, but that’s just silly. If you’re a smart GM, you maximize the value of your talent. You use them when it makes sense to use them. You don’t waste a year of service time on a lost season. And your “reload” argument is very weak. Every dollar that has to be spent replacing Hosmer in 2018 could be spent elsewhere. Losing him in 2018 hurts the team, no matter how good DM is, or how much faith he has in himself.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would agree with your argument if this season was "lost"

But we’re not 10-21. We’re 17-14. In 2nd place behind a 20-9 Indians team that can not possibly sustain a .667+ winning percentage.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

31 games don't tell you how good a team is

We have a lot more data than that. And that data shows that this team isn’t going to win even 80 games. Very likely not even 75. With or without Hosmer, Duffy, etc.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not at all

Worrying about a single year of one player like it’s the single, most important decision of your franchise is the real silliness, here.

If one year of Hosmer in 2018 breaks the organization, then the organization is built on stupidity. In case you haven’t noticed, there may very well be a bevy of prospects to sign/worry about around 2018 besides Hosmer. But if you want to sink all of your focus for a future that may not even come to pass, feel free.

Again, I wouldn’t have brought Hosmer up now, but it’s done. So DMGM better get busy on thinking on 2018, shouldn’t he?

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Worrying about a single year of one player like it’s the single, most important decision of your franchise is the real silliness, here.

Who said it is the most important decision of the franchise? It is one important decision among many. He could either get the 2018 season from Hosmer or the 2011 season. Moore has chosen poorly. I never said it would break the organization. That is your hyperbole, and a straw man argument.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

But you dont know

that we will compete in 2018. Or that we wont compete in 2011 in this weak ass division. Why worry about 2018? No guarantees there…

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

weak ass division

not only because we are in it?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

2011 is much more of a known quantity than 2018

And a smart look at the 2011 team says they won’t win 75 games. So why waste a service year on that kind of season?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree.

i’m not sure why we are all assuming that we magically already know that 2018 isn’t going to be a lost season. i would love to see scott as a gm. “no worries – we’ll crack .500 in 2018.”

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

exactly
straw man argument.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You're talking about money spent elsewhere

Spent on who? When? How? Of course, you have not the slightest idea.

And this is the point…I can guess where — it’ll be spent on some of their current prospects, and if DM is smart, they’ll be signed BEFORE 2018 hits. Nobody in their right mind is going to bring all these guys up in the same 1-2 year span, then in 2018-2019 look at the prospect of signing several long-term, high money deals.

That, Scott, makes zero sense.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course he is

but there is no way to know the market, and what the teams exact needs will be. Also, if Hosmer is any good, DM will try to sign him longer-term BEFORE 2018, so that money will already be spent, on both him and probably other prospects.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I know.

I was just answering your question.

I do doubt that Hos will be resigned before 2018, but I don’t know that I care either. We can always trade him before then.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gotcha, my bad

And yes, you’re right…there will be lots of moves to make by then, and one would hope that Hosmer’s disposition won’t make or break the franchise.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is my tone bad or something?

This is the same thing that happened in the Betemit thread. I thought we were discussing something and I think you read it as a personal attack or something.

Not being snarky, I’m genuinely curious.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Meh, sometimes I'm too quick to arch my eyebrow

There, it was what it was, here, I think I was revved up in the back and forth with NY Royal. I apologize.

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Of course

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

To quote Bricktop from Snatch

“Of course fucking of course”

You want optimism? My glass is half full of emptiness.

by DanielSmith on May 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's a fucking idiotic statement

The Royals would lose all credibility if they left a top ten overall prospect in AAA for that long when he was crushing the ball.

Stick to baseball theory.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

"lose credibility"?

Please. Do you think this perennially losing, laughing stock organization with a laughable GM has any credibility? And do you think other organizations just call up every top prospect who looks like he might be ready, without regard to service time or where the team is in its rebuilding? If so, you’re wrong.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously, stick to your studies

Your real-world takes are terrible.

Outside of creepy Royals blogs, there is going to be nothing but praise about this move.

Just like you heard nothing but praise after quickly promoting stud prospects that had proven they were ready in past years, such as Heyward, Upton, Longoria, Bruce, etc.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because the masses like it, doesn't mean its the right move

There are far more stupid people than intelligent people.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

And just because something sounds great in theory

doesn’t mean it works in reality.

Hell, why not promote anyone for a few years so we can push them all up at once?

That won’t happen because it is idiotic, just like keeping Hosmer in AAA when he has proven he is ready.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Tell that to the TB Rays

They have made theory work in practice.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

No way

they made the terrible decision to promote Longoria early. THEY LOST A YEAR OF SERVICE TIME!!!!11111OMG

such short-sighted morons.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fail

They signed him to a long term, incredibly team friendly contract.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

They wanted to wait longer than they did

but they were on such a roll to start that year that they just bit the bullet.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

They still

Got 9 cheap years of control out of him

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

So if we extend Hosmer

does that make this move a good one too?

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't be hatin'

And don’t use facts either.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions  

CarGo says hi

and you didn’t answer the question.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

He kinda did.

Hosmer is a Scott Boras client who is a money grubbing agent of the highest disorder.

Good luck trying to sign him to a team friendly contract, if at all.

That is, if he is any good in the majors, which we still don’t know that yet.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, actually he didn't

Boras clients have resigned with teams. Boras is an advisor for his clients, he doesn’t own them.

Again – would this be a good deal if Hosmer signed an extension down the line?

Given the numerous non answers, I will take it as a yes.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here my non answer answer.

Sure Boras has had clients sign with teams, but those teams pay for it in away the tends to lean to non-efficiency. Not the best way to keep a franchise going.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It still likely limits the number of years the Royals would have him

If he’s willing to have two FA years bought out, then that means the Royals would have him through 2019. But if the Royals waited to call him up until April 2012, then an extension with two FA years would mean they have him through 2020.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why call him up in 2012?

Why is that the arbitrary acceptable year?

Why not 2014 with Bubba Starling and Jason Adam?

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

*crickets*

I’ll take that as a yes

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 7:53 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Several times throughout this thread it has been said this would be good...

Chances are given his agent that it would be very unlikely… Not impossible but unlikely.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

And Signing Albert Pujols to a perpetual club option $1m a year contract would be a good move too. And about as likely to happen.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

he signed the deal while in the minors

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Didn't they nearly happen at the same time?

Meaning such an agreement was at least close to being finalized before the promotion was made.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

6 games i think it was signed...

there was obviously some discussion ongoing when he was called up though…so probably just semantics on my part

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

okay...

but yeah, I am of the understanding that the Rays offered the contract to Upton, he rejected it, so the began negotiation with Longoria while he was in the minors… Somebody basically got hurt right away, and he was called up and the deal was finalized.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2011 12:18 AM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers have a different timeclock

since they are more prone to injury

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2011 12:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

we hear about the great moves that work out, naturally

that’s survivor bias

you hear about the guy that cured cancer by reading about flowers. you don’t hear about the 100 people that tried to do the same and died.

that applies to prospect hype generally. for every heyward theres an alex gordon or cameron maybin or whomeever

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

That is a different argument though

Scott is arguing that we are wasting a year of service on the (poor) assumption Hosmer would have stayed in AAA until next year.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

No, I'm arguing that he SHOULD have stayed in AAA until next year

I’m not assuming anything about Moore doing the right or smart thing. Outside of the draft, he rarely does the smart thing.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

And again, you are an idiot

if you thought it was probable or even likely that Hosmer – or any top prospect – would perform like this in AAA and stay down for another year.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Did I say it was probable or even likely?

No, I said it would have been the smart thing to do.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Serious question.

Do you think that calling Hosmer up at this point is something that most GMs would have done, some GMs would have done, a few GMs would have done, or no GMs? What percentage?

I remember that you like to use that point when discussing managers…that something may be dumb, but we shouldn’t expect different, because most would do the same thing.

So, what about this move, do you think?

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would say at least 50% of GM's make this move now

And the number bumps to 75% after the Super-2 deadline.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think I disagree.

I’d say 25% or less of GMs make this move now with that number bumping up to 75% after the Super-2 deadline.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

you can look at top prospects...

and see how many of them were left in AAA dominating for a year + 1/2 month…i cant think of them but i havent done a ton of research. Howard was in the minors for awhile…but they had Thome crushing the ball in front of him.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

well...

that’s a departure from reality. hos was coming up regardless.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

most people choose to deal in realistic outcomes.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

And Moore is going to sign bad FA's

Does that mean we shouldn’t say that Moore made a bad signing? Just because it is reality doesn’t mean we shouldn’t criticize reality.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Odd strawman

even for you.

Focus on the point here – your completely idiotic whining about an unrealistic scenario.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

It is idiotic to criticize the move?

If a GM does something stupid, then no one should comment negatively on it if it appears to have been inevitable? Now that’s stupid.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's hilarious

that you continue to cling to the move being stupid when it is based on your (flawed) opinion.

Can’t wait to see all the positive commentary from baseball analysts (all of course idiots since they don’t agree with you) on the promotion.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

John Sickels just posted

that he would have promoted Hosmer too.

Obviously he must be a complete idiot though.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, when's the last time he didn't want a good prospect performing well in AAA to be promoted?

Prospect fetishists are always all for this kind of thing. I’m sure everyone at Minor League Ball loves it. Short-term thinking. Blinders on.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another dumb prospect guy

Buster_ESPN
I asked a number of the evaluators about Hosmer, and the first two responses I got: ’He’s like Joey Votto.’ And, ‘Impact like Heyward 2010.’ 10 minutes ago via web

by deezle on May 5, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Which is irrelevent

To the point we are discussing.

We are not arguing his talent.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 7:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

Impact like Heyward 2010 isnt irrelvant

if he does that he can help us stay in contention

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 8:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

The baseball world is lauding the move, just as I suspected.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 8:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Can't wait to hear all the analysts

against the move that you will post.

Should be some rough reading.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 8:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

For the 567th time

We. Are. Not. Disputing. His. Talent. Level.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 8:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Even if he comes up and hits like ARod did his rookie year..

this doesn’t make this the smartest move…

I wont go as far as Scott and say this is a STUPID move, just not the best move. The only way this move is the SMARTEST move is if Hosmer has already been extended.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 8:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

its not the smartest (april 2012)

but no gms in baseball wouldve done that…so its irrelevant to discuss. Had he called him up 3 weeks ago before the deadline…that wouldve been incredibly stupid…this is not.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

The analysts are saying he's MLB-ready

That’s all. Are they talking about Hosmer getting the 2011 Royals over the top? Are they talking about the long-term implications of calling him up now? No. Look at what they are saying, not what you wish they were saying.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

You are taking this

extremely personally

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 8:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

the braves were a contending team

that’s a relevant point

and no, heyward alone did not make them contenders

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just like the "Brett Tomko looks like a 15 game winner" story

Quotes from anonymous scouts are as worthless as the aftermath from my last trip to Taco Bell.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 7:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I see plus hands, good agility and range, and plus hands

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So peoples opinion

based on whether or not a team (that we all are fans of) called up some person either too early, or not reflects on how they view the entire world?

It’s a sport. This is about a player of a game.

Everyone opinions are just that. Pump the breaks there turbo.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

People?

Who, the Facebook crowd?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Seriously How Do You Keep UP!!!????

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 7:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Most fans don't think. They just react.

Not talking about people in this thread necessarily. Just fans in general. Most fans are thinking about now and only now. “Is that player good? Then call him up! Don’t talk to me about service time or any of that claptrap. And get me another beer.”

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

With the list of four prospects that you've listed

there is a list three to four times that long of prospects that have busted

We have no way of knowing how this is going to turn out.

Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.

by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on May 5, 2011 7:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dont think there are many gms in baseball...

who given what we were playing at 1b and given what hosmer was doing in AAA that wouldve left Hosmer in AAA until mid-late April 2012. Clearly, thats the ideal situation, but its just not realistic. He didnt call him up before the service time deadline this year, so I’m alright with this move….not ecstatic by any stretch, but its not boneheaded.

Criticizing him for doing what 29 other GMs wouldve done doesnt make sense…just how you rightly point out that its not a big deal when Ned or Trey dont use Soria in ways that make more sense than the ‘closer’ role.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does this mean

Hosmer will lose a year? Or is it just Super-2 status?

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

what if he is sent back down at some point?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hypothetical...

he comes up, plays like Kila for 31 games and they send him down and call up Clint.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't either...

Just a hypothetical… So what happens when they deem Moose ready.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks Balls

That service time stuff is really confusing.

by rich04 on May 5, 2011 7:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm not so sure the Royals don't have a shot this year

The offense is pretty solid. Frenchy’s numbers have to regress a bit, but Escobar and Pena will hit better. Lorenzo Cain will soon offer an upgrade over Melky as well.

The bullpen is pretty damn good.

The starting pitching is bad. If Moore sees a way to turn that around, then he should abosultely entertain thoughts of contention this year.

by kcdc1 on May 5, 2011 5:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

I guess I’m not surprised by the fantastic mishandling of Kila over the last three years.

Pretty quick for Hosmer to get here, too. And why not after Super 2?

Regardless, excited to see Hosmer up. Need to buy a new shersey.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 5:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Sherseys all around!

I’ve been trying to find an Omaha one of him for a month.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

fantastic mishandling of Kila?

c’mon…i figured we were done perpetuating that myth

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Because we really shouldn't have called him up sooner?

Because Mike Jacobs really did deserve a shot?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

kila was hitting like chris getz did in AAA....

as a no field 1b…he couldve been called up…but he wasnt exactly pounding on the door from omaha

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mike Jacobs had a .297 OBP

I think I would have actually rather had Chris Getz at 1B all year.

Kila at least was posting a .392 OBP in Omaha at the time.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2011 12:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

Joel just ripped of a Patton Oswalt joke...

He took physics for poets… I bet.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions  

This is only the first of many, because this move is useless

Unless you start bringing up the others (Mous/Duffy/Monty).

Prepare yourselves now, Kansas City fans. The New Era of Royals baseball has begun.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 5:55 PM EDT reply actions  

There was no way that they were gonna leave a guy down there all year with a .535 obp.

They just really jumped the gun, but I am excited at least.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 5:58 PM EDT reply actions  

obp?

“WTF are you talking about?”

Dayton

CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal

by kabrink on May 5, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know that they probably should have kept him down for a bit more.

But I’m still excited that this is finally happening. Future is now theme is really starting to go into effect big time.

End of Line.

by TheSmokingPun on May 5, 2011 6:00 PM EDT reply actions  

What would it have done to Hosmer's Psyche

if Robinson had come up instead?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:02 PM EDT reply actions  

Probably nothing

He would probably assume he wasn’t getting called up because of the Super-2 rules

by Connor Moylan on May 5, 2011 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

agreed.

same as if they’d not made any move at all. Just kept Kila holding a spot on the 25-man and bring Kendall back ASAP so Pena could be DFA’d or something ‘genious’ like that.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Crap

A’s blew a chance to pull ahead of the Indians.

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Um if Hosmer is better than both CRob and Kila

your argument doesn’t make much sense

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

huh? I never said anything about them being better than Hosmer.

Simply that waiting on Hosmer and next year have Hosmer + 2 prospect we got for KK and Clint is better than calling up Hosmer now and likely getting nothing for KK and Clint.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is a good point

but should also include Melky and Francouer. Every single day I read more than one comment saying they’ll be “flipped for prospects”. The problem is nobody is giving up anything worth a damn for either of these guys.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

We also didn't think we could get any decent prospects for:

Farnsworth, Ankiel or Podsednik.

The point here is that we don’t know what we could have had.

Imagine playing a game show. You’ve already won one prize(Hosmer). You are told then that you can open two curtains and potentially get additional prizes(either Kila or Clint as long term players or prospects) while not risking your already won prize, and in fact potentially IMPROVING your already won prize. The only catch is you have to enjoy your prize after you open the curtains. However, you’re staying here all month, you’ll have all the time in the world to enjoy your prize.

Any conventional logic says open the curtains. See if you’ve won the prizes, a delay won’t ruin your prize.

Instead Dayton started to open the first curtain, got a glimpse of what was behind it and slammed it shut and walked out with his prize. So now not only do we not know what was behind the curtains, but we can’t get the rewards for them either.

It just doesn’t make sense

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 5, 2011 10:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

and we got for Ankiel+Farnsworth:
Traded by the Kansas City Royals with Kyle Farnsworth to the Atlanta Braves for Gregor Blanco, Jesse Chavez and Tim Collins.

and Scotty Pods:

Traded by the Kansas City Royals to the Los Angeles Dodgers for Elisaul Pimentel (minors) and Luke May.

In all reality, roster filler other than Collins who is a reliever that still has a lot of questions.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not to say I don't agree with your main point.
Instead Dayton started to open the first curtain, got a glimpse of what was behind it and slammed it shut and walked out with his prize. So now not only do we not know what was behind the curtains, but we can’t get the rewards for them either.

It just doesn’t make sense

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

There's a world of difference between Farnsworth, Ankiel, and Podsednik

and Kila and Clint. The first three players were all established MLB players. Clint and Kila are not (and Clint has no MLB experience). Nobody is going to trade for a player with no MLB experience to try to contend late in the season (nor for a player whose small sample size shows what Kila’s has).

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that was my point

They won’t trade for a guy without experience. So why get rid of the only real chance you’ll have to get that guy experience for something that doesn’t need to happen right now?

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 6, 2011 3:56 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

How much of a difference would one year make in this case?

Especially given the ground Kila needs to make up. Teams looking to make the midseason upgrade are looking for, for better or worse, a proven quantity.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 6, 2011 9:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

His argument

Was that not only might it have been too soon for Hosmer development-wise, and used one of his controlled years, but that it also hurt any value we may have in Kila and Clint. I don’t really think not playing Clint will affect his trade value much one way or another, unless they were going to allow him a significant number of PAs before they brought Hos up. Kila’s value it does affect, but I think Kila has screwed his head up at this point and it’s not too likely he was going to improve much on the ML stage. I do wish they’d have waited a month though.

by Prime2U on May 5, 2011 6:47 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

the thing is

Kila was always screwed

Look at Aviles. When he got his chance, he actually hit like crazy. He had an MVP-level performance.

Did it change the FO’s mind? No. They traded for Yuni AND Getz within a year.

If you aren’t part of Moore’s vision, you aren’t part of his vision.

If Kila was hitting .270, we were going to hear about his platoon split or his defense or his numbers in the clutch or speed or something else.

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

If Kila was hitting .270 there is no way they send him down

the only person Kila has to blame is himself. He knew what the score was coming into the year. I like the guy but he always had a short window to carve out a spot for himself on this club.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you just highlighted the problem

Short window. Why is the window short on a non-contending team?

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

Aviles has managed to BARELY hang on to his roster spot by playing like a 5+ win player whenever healthy.
Could you imagine Utley or Zobrist or Tulo or Cano getting treated like Aviles has?
I’m not saying that Mike is as good as those guys, but whenever healthy he’s played as well as any of them, and yet still has to scrape for his job everytime GMDM sees some shiny new denfensive guy

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 5, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

two flaws in your argument....

aviles has never really been in danger of not being on the team. secondly, aviles was about a 5 year player for 2/3 of 1 season 3 seasons ago….isnt this the francoeur argument? The last seasons worth of games aviles was .5 WAR or 1.5 WAR last year in almost a full season if wanna throw out the injury season….hardly a perennial 5 win player like the guys you mentioned.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll admit it is the Francouer argument a bit

But here’s the thing, when healthy, which takes out ‘09 and the first half of ’10, Mike has played at the same pace, which over the course of a season would net more than 5 wins. Its almost remarkably consistant.
And while Mike may not have been about to be demoted most of the time, he certainly has been forced to fight for his job.
He had to destroy the ball at AAA to overcome TPJ. He wasn’t given the chance to prove he had overcome his injuries, and instead the team brought in two players to take over for him. Then, despite proving he could hit once his injuries were over, he still had to fight against Getz and Betemit for a starting spot.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 5, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

so you're saying

that mike isn’t as good as your examples, but using these examples to show that mike has been treated differently than them?

if he’s not as good, he won’t get the same playing time.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm saying his circumstances have been different

But that he has shown, several times, that he can play at that level. He could be just as good as them, but the organization simply won’t commit to giving him the constant at bats he needs.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 6, 2011 3:59 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

the point

is that he’s on the roster. i don’t understand why you think that needs to be qualified. when he’s not on the roster, feel free to make the point.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

But the fact that he is still on the roster is no thanks to Dayton

The fact is that every chance Dayton has had to try to replace Mike, he’s taken it. The fact that the guys brought in to replace him have stunk so bad and mike has performed so well has no effect on the central point here. Namely that in multiple cases Dayton has shown a clear bias towards “his” players, and only when his players fail and the old players continue to succeed at a high level despite the shenanigans do they force him to tolerate them…at least until the next Dayton guy comes along.

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on May 6, 2011 4:06 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I know

Kila should have gotten his chance a couple of years ago. But now we have what we have. And I think in Kila’s case, the pressure on him to perform, and then starting off with a whimper, has taken his head right out of the game. I really wanted to see him till at least the ASB, but I can understand the move. If he was just hitting poorly I’d be upset about this, but he isn’t even making contact. His K rate is way up, and he won’t see the BBs he used to up at the ML level. I really think he was in a situation he couldn’t get out of staying up at this level. I hope he turns it around at Omaha and some team wants to give him a chance.

by Prime2U on May 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I thought he was past the point of losing a year

just Super 2 status? I can care less how much Glass has to pay him in arbitration. Am I wrong?

Hosmer in KC, gonna be a heck of an interesting summer. Replacing Kila balck hole of offense with Hosmer will (hopefully, please) make this offense legit. Pitching still a problem although if Hosmer got promoted due to performance, I tend to think Duffy isnt far behind.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:09 PM EDT reply actions  

I hate this move

but I will make sure and watch every game for quite a while

Vive la Royalution!

by Coup Day'ton on May 5, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

Smart business move

Not to be too cynical, but you gotta wonder how much extra ticket sales contributed to this (bring up a prospect everyone wants to see, stoke the belief that the Royals can contend this year, etc.). But all rationality aside… Go Royals! =)

by HarryL on May 5, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

McKinney

We all get your point, and you are certainly entitled to that opinion. But these players are china dolls in little glass bottle to be preserved forever.

Hosmer is in KC…enjoy being a Royals fan, man.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:10 PM EDT reply actions  

McKinney is not alone

in that opinion

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

not disputing his overall point, but

It is indeed hard to get too worked up about possible events in the year 2018. Can anybody else on this thread claim to be worrying about any other 2018 contingencies in their life right now?

"Shot by my own men."

by StonewallPDS on May 5, 2011 6:20 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

Of course it's hard to get worked up over it

that’s why you make business decisions with reason, not with emotion. With emotion, you get worked up over a 17-14 start and go into win-now mode.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would be more concerned about "win now mode"

if we had traded somebody, not called up a guy who was tearing to cover off the ball to replace someone that is scuffling.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

exactly

"Shot by my own men."

by StonewallPDS on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

You don't think this is an indication

that Moore is starting to jump the gun? I guess his next few moves will let us know for sure.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

If that's all it is

I would think Moore would have waited until at least the Super 2 date.

The fact that he’s willing to potentially forfeit future payroll, I think, is an indication that he sees this team as a potential contender.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2011 12:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

how about try and win now

And prepare to win more next year by getting hosmers struggles out of the way?
He has destroyed everything at all three levels for the past year… what if “the majority of prospects fail” like we keep hearing and the team isn’t good heading into 2018? Then we’d look dumb not calling him up now. It goes both ways.
We have a weak division and a chance to make some noise… this makes us better not only this year but next year as well. Maybe he was just called up bc he earned it.

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I see

Us with a very modest record, at least 4 games back while 3 other teams significantly under perform their expected talent levels, having played a weak schedule, with a huge home field bias in scheduling so far

And I don’t get too excited by that.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

SF Giants

agree

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haven't we had one of the easiest schedules in all of baseball so far?

And doesn’t it get much harder next month?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at more than one month (small sample size)

The Twins, Tigers and Sox are all better than the Royals by more than a little.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought you said all prospects struggle upone arrival

So why would you want a bunch of young guys that are struggling up when, “we are ready to contend”?

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

He also said most prospects fail anyways

so in reality this is pointless for him to even worry about.

by deezle on May 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

amen

If were ready to contend next year why would we want his "struggles upon arriving " then? If 2018 comes around and we desperately need hosmer and don’t have anyone else to play that spot then this is a dumb move. But for now let’s just enjoy watching a young stud who forced his way onto the team.

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

2012 is an outside chance

Great time to get rookies their first season. And then hopefully go for it for realy in 2013.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

So, if at the end of June, the Royals were 34-25

You would be more behind this move?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

I respect you a lot, Scott. I really do.

But this team is vastly different than 2003. There is no Albie Lopez, DJ Carrasco, Miguel Ascencio, Juan Gonzalez, Ryan Bukvich, Carlos Febles, or Brandon Berger on this team. I highly doubt this team sees 29 different pitchers on and off of their roster.

This team is better position-by-position than the 2003 team ever was.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really. At the time, I knew that the 2003 team was smoke and mirrors

I had absolutely no stock in that roster whatsoever. I enjoyed the ride, sure, but I was in no way expecting things to work out with that core of players.

So please, if you could at least show me a measure of the respect that I have expressed for you, we will get a lot further in life.

While I am not the biggest fan of the Hosmer move, I do not view it as a vastly negative move. If we compete this year, good. If not, I don’t see it as a tremendous loss for the organization, and it is no worse than a zero-sum play for the fanbase.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im pretty in the middle myself...

I don’t like the move, but I don’t exactly HATE it.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

there was a better option April 2012...

but no gms wouldve made that move…assuming he’s going to be up this year, which was a good assumption starting from day 1 of the season, this is a good move. its a sign that the organization isnt pinching pennies. This move is going to cost them a couple million dollars in 2014 but they completely ignored that…good sign

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

And if he explodes like Ryan Howard did...

then it will cost us tens of millions

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2011 12:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

or more likely 1 10 million

if he’s killing it…he’s getting paid a ton in years 4-6 regardless of whether or not he hits arb in year 2+ or not

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would be closer...

I don’t think a bright line would be passed, but it would at least be more data.

for me, a big part of this is dvision context. it’s not just the royals being .500, its believing that the White Sox and Twins are more or less already done.

we’ll see

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

honestly, I didn't even have an opinion on Hosmer until an hour ago...

I hadn’t even thought about it. Didn’t think it was close to happening.

I can see the argument for doing this. I’m just not sure, upon reflection, I agree.

If you want to go balls out for the 2011 playoffs, you probably also need to revamp the starting rotation with Duffy, Monty, etc

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just think if they were going to call him up between June-August

it might as well be now since all we lose is an arbitration year.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

duffy and monty are the only two i could even see coming up SP wise,

and with Monty’s BB’s i don’t think he comes up for a bit, or is even ready til he gets that under control.

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 7:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

not a prospect

was up for Oakland last year, but i know what you’re saying

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 7:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

The major concern I have with both Duffy and Monty

is that they are going to have a HUGE increase in innings pitched

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Service time

By calling Hosmer up now, Hosmer cannot earn enough service time this year to count as a full year, so the Royals will still control him through at least the 2017 season no matter what. If the Royals wanted to control him through the 2018 season, the team would have had to keep him in the minors until late April 2012.

By calling Hosmer up now, however, there is a very good chance he would qualify for Super Two arbitration after the 2013 season (assuming he never goes back to the minors), which would cost the Royals four arbitration years instead of three (depending on how Hosmer performs, this could be a cost of a few million dollars, or in the Prince Fielder/Ryan Howard scenario, it could cost $10+ million). Obviously, years of control are more important than arbitration paydays, but this is not chump chance either. This move might be brought to you by the Meche savings.

by Gopherballs on May 5, 2011 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

So...

Is tomorrow the day they announce Kevin Millwood?

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Man NYRoyal I admire your patience

all these years of posting lucid intelligent comments and you still endure all the opposition you face. What’s in this for you?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:13 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Insanity

I guess. Or Don Quixote Syndrome. Dunno.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

For those of you citing Brandon Belt

Belt had one year in the minor leagues, 106 PA in AAA.

Hosmer has more time in High A, AA, and AAA.

Plus Belt’s more strikeout prone than Hosmer.

Just for reference

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:13 PM EDT reply actions  

So

Who gets sold at the deadline for help?

That’s what contenders do remember.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

MELKY

someone give them pamphlets to sell them on that

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Frenchy.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

But he

Is the “Good offense” we need to stay in the hunt!

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 6:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh but if he's gone for 2018 prosepects

it makes room for Cain et al etc ad infinitum

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jorge Posada

.154/.238/.374

Jesus Montero

.372/.389/.465

I’d say the yankees are more likely to contend than us.
Just 1 example

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Posada isn't the Yankees catcher

Russell Martin is
.279/.367/.547

Pick a different example

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 1:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Montero is going to DH

Which is what Posada is doing everyday

by kcbottom9th on May 6, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Yankees are going to DH him?

But they’re having him catch every day in AAA, putting him at injury risk? This is the front office you want the Royals to model themselves after?

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well the world is going to end after next season

so we might as well go balls to the wall this year and next.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:15 PM EDT reply actions  

Pointing Out

that Matt Treanor is out-hitting Kila causes no joy, it’s just a matter of recognizing the current reality. I hoped Kila would produce, but instead he became Mike Jacobs v.’11 and was blocking two guys who were lighting up AAA. Lots of guys get sent back down, it may well happen to Hosmer, so Kila needs to fix the holes and produce for another chance somewhere.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 6:16 PM EDT reply actions  

What we know is that Hosmer is burning a year of service time in a lost season. Tell me why that’s a good idea.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

why did a move have to be made today, at all?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Development at the major league level?

Getting that “year of struggling and adjustment” out of the way before it really matters?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes he does

If he stays in the majors, he hits FA after the 2017 season. If the Royals called him up mid-April 2012, he’d hit FA after the 2018 season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

OR THE ROYALS CAN LEAVE HIM IN THE MINORS FOREVER AND HE NEVER BECOMES A FREE AGENT!!!

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

If we were following the Rays model

There is no doubt it’s what we would’ve done. (and personally what I would have done)

That said, with GMDM, he was coming up this year, and if he’s going to be here, I’d rather get as many days as possible out of him. I realize this will likely cost them with Super 2 status, but I can swallow him costing more easier than I can losing him for a season.

by kcsno56 on May 5, 2011 7:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

they didnt game it with price....

they didnt game it with longoria (signed a few days later)…didnt game it with hellickson

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

the 2008 rays 10 games into the season?

absolutely not….they were 20 less games into winning than these royals are coming off of a 66 win season…a nearly identical scenario, no?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Pitchers are different animals because of their proneness to injury

and Longoria was different for 2 reasons, 1 because of the injury that FORCED their hand, and the fact that the contract was basically done.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 6, 2011 12:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Question wanting non abrasive discussion

Can this be viewed as a good move even if we know the Royals have too many other holes to win the central this year?

by spamiam79 on May 5, 2011 6:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

any other team in the division maybe?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

and Cleveland is not one of them?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

This can be viewed as a good move...

If somehow the Royals already signed Hosmer to an Evan Longoria contract

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Guys:

Just because we brought up the Hos now, doesn’t mean that we can’t get just as good of a 1b prospect in the next 6 years.

Most of you are being extremely over-pessimistic about this move, too.

The Royals are IN CONTENTION. And it’s MAY. Most of you thought that we would lose 20-21 games so far. This is a smart move, Imo, because of that.

I will be going to the game tomorrow, with Diamond Club seats. Hopefully some of you can catch me on TV.

by Jack Marsh on May 5, 2011 6:19 PM EDT reply actions  

1Bmen aren't as easy to find as you think they are.

The fact that it is the deepest position, makes it that much harder to find an elite one.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

see Dan Johnson and every other 1b just like him

1b are a dime a dozen, if you’re looking for someone that bats.240 w/obp of .250

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

we have like 4 awesome ones now....

that was the argument 3 weeks ago

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Really?

I missed that completely. Intelligent posters wanted Kila to have a chance and maybe Robinson to get a sniff.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

so, 6 weeks ago for kila....

do you remember the prediction thread? alot of people thought the super optimistic computer projections were too low….

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

not gloating at all

i wanted kila to do well…i said that multiple times before the season…i just didnt think it’d happen…and watching him this year made it very apparent very quickly

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Wow.

I had some amazing timing in doing that Kila analysis that I just did.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

ITT:

You cannot please everyone.

by KCTiger on May 5, 2011 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Every singe person that "loves" this move will be saying he was rushed if he doesn't get off to a good start.

He better hit. Immediately…or DM is gonna be in big big trouble.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 6:20 PM EDT reply actions  

Bob Hamelin

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

No it doesn't. If Hosmer puts up the same line as Kila in his first month, nobody will give a sh*t what he hit in Omaha.

I’m not in agreement with Scott that Hosmer had to spent the entire 2011 and some of 2012 in Omaha..I think calling him up in July/August of this year (if still hitting well) would’ve been fine..but this is way too early. We have no idea what Kila is and are rushing Hosmer. It could work out..but the reward for it working out (2 extra wins this year?) isn’t even close to worth it.

Oh well. What else do you expect from one of the worst run franchises in North American sports?

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 6:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is nothing in any of my posts that should make you think I am pissed.

I think it’s a bad move and I am explaining why. It isn’t the end of the world, but the risk (rushing Hosmer, hurting his development) is FAR greater than the reward (winning 2-3 extra games in a non-contending year).

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is more or less my stance as well

not too upset that they didn’t wait until April 2012, but really disappointed in how we’ve completely squandered a potential asset in Kila.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

i honestly don't understand

why you all think kila is so special. i really really don’t.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

and he's hit very poorly in the major leagues when given opportunity.

how much longer would you like to give him?really, honest answer. it seems like he has some pretty serious flaws that 200 more PAs are not going to change.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Very possibly.

Yeah, i posted this in a different thread, but I worked kind of hard on it and I think that thread is ending thanks to this move.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kila was given 326 Plate appearances

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

and 326 plate apperances isn't exactly a big sample...

what about half a season?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

sure, but it's not exactly small either.

i just don’t know that there was any tangible evidence that he was going to turn things around. sometimes there is, sometimes there isn’t. i mean, he wasn’t even close to good.

besides, sending someone down when they struggle is an obvious baseball practice that has been happening for some time. i don’t know why this is so novel.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

well, he had been hitting .276 with 3 walks and a homer in his last 7 games

not exactly earth shattering, but perhaps warranted a little more playing time

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

276/.344/.448

in his last 8. And he has a strong history of starting slowly. That doesn’t mean he would improve, but it is tangible evidence that he could.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

trending up

but if the point of this particular discussion is that 326 is a small sample size, i’m not sure if that fact carries a ton of weight.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I put as much weight in the numbers that he put up last year...

as the numbers he has put up this year… And sense he was on somewhat of a mini streak… I think he should at the very least gotten another week.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one is arguing the sending of Kila down...

And if they would have swapped Clint for Kila, then this post would only have about 75 comments.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Honestly...

I’m a bit more upset about sending Kila down than calling Hos up. I think Kila deserved half a season at least…the who replaces him part is pretty unimportant to me.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

me, too

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fair enough...

And Im as much a Kila supporter as anyone, but I get him being sent down… But if he gets sent down for Clint there is a chance he makes a comeback… Not now.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't think so.

If he gets sent down, he’s gone. Doesn’t matter who replaces him.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Only if...

Kila gets sent down for Clint, Clint were to struggle and get sent down for Hosmer… If by some chance GMDM all along was looking at Hosmer for September Kila would have had a shot… Obviously this isn’t the case.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

its not the actual results...its the way he looked striking out in 30% of his ABs...

his one alleged plus skill was his plate discipline…and thats been lacking as evidenced by his chasing all sorts of off speed pitches all over the place

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

this is very true

i honestly feel like this point has been tremendously overlooked. he wasn’t even close. it takes a lot to overlook how over matched he’s been.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

just for comparison's sake

here’s Alex Gordon’s first 98 plate appearances in 2007, his first season:

.173/.316/.296

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

what you're saying is

that we should continue watching Kila suck balls for the next four years before he turns into a contributor in 2015?

by fightwookies on May 5, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Perhaps a bad example. How about Adrian Gonzalez

2004 16 games .238/.273/.381
2005 43 games .227/.272/.407

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, and what ever happened to that guy.

His disappearance proves that Kila has to be gone.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Hosmer Clock Starts Now

If he doesn’t hit .320/.410/.523 in his first 326 plate appearances, we MUST call up Clint Robinson. It would be the only prudent thing to do.

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

you're giving him 1 week?

if he doesn’t go yard at least twice and swipe 2 bases, i’ll be clamoring for CROB

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

in his first game

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gordon

took a few vacations in Omaha after that, didn’t he? This isn’t the end of the world for Kila unless he hangs his head and lets it be. Mickey Mantle got sent back down to Kansas City his first year and did all right.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Unless Hosmer really fails

…I don’t see how there will be an opening for Kila to come back and get regular MLB playing time.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

What are Kila's options here?

Does he have any or is he stuck in Omaha splitting time with Robinson?

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Opening for Kila

would have been closed in two weeks or two months or September. Neither he nor Robinson have a hope of opening with the club in ’12. Poor Kila is a footnote, so we should hope he works on his swing and defense and can get a chance somewhere else.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 6, 2011 12:34 AM EDT up reply actions  

here's how I think about it

It’s about possible asset creation

1) the royals are not going to contend in 2011
2) hosmer/moose probably aren’t ready, shouldn’t be rushed regardless
3) even if Kila fails, therefore, you have nothing to lose

if he emerges, you have an asset that you can trade or use on the roster as insurance

its funny how people scream at me (not saying you are) “WHY DONT WE GIVE MELKY?FRANCOEUR A CHANCE WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE???”

when we don’t have those guys under long term contracts, same thinking, but with a guy actually under team control

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

in the abstract, sure

and those points are all fair once qualified with the word ‘possible’. i just don’t think anyone – the fan base, the front office, journalists, etc are interested in watching the royals suck even longer. they just aren’t.

you’re making a move based on objective facts. all arguments against it are subjective, or ‘possible’. speculation is nice, but at some point unwarranted.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

one player doesn't push the royals from sucking to good

I dont see the breaking point you do

the royals have been bad for, what? 15 years?

in 2007 i’m sure we all felt THIS IS IT, IT HAS TO END

and we were wrong.

the royals spent all winter talking up the minor league guys, they’ve already established the story . dont see the urgency

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

1) the royals are not going to contend in 2011

If that assumption is false, then 3) is also false. I think that is where we differ, you are convinced that this is a wasted season, I have them 75 minimum, 90 maximum, and a likely range of 80-85 with the opening day lineup. That is competitive right there in a weak division. Add one of the Young Guns and one stick and the range edges higher.

As for ‘long term’, I’m pushing 60, so more interested in now, even if I didn’t figure that the Glass family moves the team in a few years.

“"WHY DONT WE GIVE MELKY?FRANCOEUR A CHANCE WHAT DO WE HAVE TO LOSE???"

They both have produced, Kila hasn’t. Melky and Frenchy understood the urgency of the situation and made the changes to better their performance. Kila now faces the same challenge.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 10:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Melky has produced?

I’ve missed that part of the season.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

fan graphs

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=4022&position=OF

Looks perfectly league average so far, plays a little defense, has four assists, is cheap, had a good day today, steals a few bases, on a pace for 80 runs, 80 rbis, seems to fit well in the OF between Gordon and Frenchy, certainly an improvement over our recent outfielders on a cost basis.

by Jim Fetterolf on May 6, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

he's not killing us in any way...he's not really helping the cause either....

looks to be another meh move by dayton….little risk little reward

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

if he looks as bad as kila does...

then yes, after a month i’ll say that he probably should go back down to AAA. i dont see that happening though…looking that bad is very rare.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate to say it...

but this is a terrible move if we don’t bring up some starting pitching. Not saying that I think we should bring up some starters already, but Hosmer brought up in isolation will probably be pretty useless.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Yeah, but...

the only reason to bring Hos up is that we think we are going to compete this year. We can’t compete with our current pitching staff, ergo, we must call people up before they are ready.

This is my fear.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I disagree.

This move is extremely consistent with Moore’s past moves and I am sure that he thought it out quite a bit; I just might have a very different baseball paradigm in which to build a process than Moore does.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not Montgomery?

Is it his control issues? His lines have looked very good aside from the BBs.

by Royal(e) with Cheese on May 5, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does anyone know what is causing the control issues?

I don’t remember him having such a high walk rate last year. Is he trying something new, or just having trouble finding the strike zone?

by Royal(e) with Cheese on May 5, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

I know that I don't know the cause

I hope some coach does and that he’s working on it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?

In addition to the control problems, his strikeout rate is middling. He is getting lucky on BABIP (247) and HR/FB rate (3% HR/Air). The only good number he is posting is his groundball rate. This is following up last year’s relatively lackluster numbers from AA. This is not enough to raise any real concerns about his long range prospects, but a guy who is pitching this way right now is not someone you really want to crank up the difficulty level on.

by Gopherballs on May 5, 2011 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's to say that we don't keep Hosmer for his entire career anyways?

He certainly wouldn’t be the first prospect in history to stay with one team. Ryan Braun is currently doing that, as are a bunch of other “stars.”

I’m not saying Hose is a guaranteed All-Star, but if he ends up being an awesome player, it isn’t going to be like he is instantly going to want to leave the team. We locked Billy in and if Gordon continues I’m sure we will resign him.

I think it is well within the realm of possibility that when he becomes arbitration or even FA eligible, if we even let him get to the point of Free Agency, that we have the inside track on him.

by KCTiger on May 5, 2011 6:26 PM EDT reply actions  

Boras.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

You guys aren't really taking salary increases into the equation.

What if our team pulls in a bunch of money over the next 5 years, then we have enough to resign hos on top of all our other players?

by Jack Marsh on May 5, 2011 6:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

What do you think our yearly budget will max out at?

100 million, maybe? If Hos turns out to be really good, he could pull in $20 million/year. We can’t afford that and still compete. If he turns out to be as good as advertised, he is most likely gone.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Gone

That’s what trades are for. If Hos is really good, double the return on Greinke and reload. Who knows, he may decide he wants to stay with the dynasty:)

by Jim Fetterolf on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, that's what I was thinking too.

He will be traded. I was just pointing out why he probably won’t be resigned.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

See

the Florida Marlins. 19 years as a franchise, now on their third rebuild with TWO World Series Championships. Falling in love with one player is just foolish.

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

A. That is a GIGANTIC assumption based on nothing, really.
B. No team but the Yankees and Red Sox can afford to keep all their stars. Teams like the Royals, especially, MUST game the system to grab every financial and strategic advantage possible. The Royals just gave up one of those advantages.

Sorry guy, but as nice as our barely above .500 record is right now (and yes, I am happy about it), the chances of us contending in this division are quite low. Our rotation is awful and guys like Frenchy, Betemit, Cabrera and even Gordon are due to regress a bit.

We just aren’t very good yet..and Hosmer ain’t changing that.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

but Duffy and Montgomery could…..

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

Monty

Walking 5.2 per 9 in AAA. You think he’s ready?

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jesus H Christ are you pessimistic!

I mean, Good god! It’s like you’re so used to the Royals losing, that you can’t see reality!

by Jack Marsh on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jack, you aren't interested in reality

You are living in a world of hope and pretending that this hope is reality.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

And you aren't either.

Mr. “THE ROYALS WILL ALWAYS BE TERRIBLE, GOD HELP US”.

by Jack Marsh on May 5, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I hate using the age argument against someone...

but as you’ve said, you are 14, I don’t expect you to understand the macro economics of the baseball world. The problem with this move is that no matter how many wins the Royals get, they will never bring in $400 million a year like the Yankees. The big picture problem is that there is no conceivable way for the Royals to afford their players if they get good, so their value has to be maximized.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

The plan for a team like the Royals

has to be maximizing assets. We didn’t do that with Kila, and now we may not be doing that with Hosmer.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lay off our designated driver Scott...

He was gonna take care of us on RR day at the K!

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

You mean like if somehow Kansas City multiplies 5 times its size over the next 6 years

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is absolutely nothing preventing that

Give him a taste of the majors. If he sticks great. If not you’ve got first base options in Omaha. Maybe Kila straightens himself out in that timeframe. Maybe Robinson is still pounding the ball and you give him a shot. I don’t get the hostility from the Kila apologists. For the first time in years they actually have viable options in Omaha that can actually help.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Scott

I hope you enjoy watching Hosmer tomorrow, all other things aside.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 6:30 PM EDT reply actions  

Dude EVERYONE is going to enjoy

watching Hosmer play. Not the point.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will, it will be fun

It’ is good, clean short-term fun in exchange for something for more value.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

How do you put a price on fun?

Can you look away from a rainbow because you know there’s no pot of gold at the end? Do you turn down a unicorn ride because you know they don’t exist? Such is Hosmer.

Seriously though, there’s option C, which is Hosmer busts and all this sound and fury shit is well, … OR KILA’S THE REAL STAR AND BY THE TIME HOSMER BUSTS KILA WILL HAVE FINISHED HIS GORGONESQUE REBIRTH AND RISE LIKE A PHOENIX FROM THE STORMCHASER’S ASHES TO LEAD THE PARADE DOWN THE PLAZA. ALL HAIL HIS PUNCHNESS WE’RE GOING TO TOMFOOLERY’S!

by Official Arrowhead Pride Parade on May 6, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

so.....

Let’s say Hosmer’s the next coming of pujols, what did we lose by calling him up May 5? Isn’t the only difference between now and July that he becomes arbitration eligible one year earlier and he has 4 years of arbitration instead of 3? right?

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

sound speculation.

it’s the only way our cheap asses could afford such talent so let’s get it NOW!

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Specifically with regard to Hosmer

it’s an issue of having him 2011-2017 (calling him up now) or 2012-2018 (waiting until late April 2012)

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

so there's no difference...

between calling him up now and July 2011?

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Correction

A couple million payroll bucks

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2011 1:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

Payroll is likely to be very low in 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2017?

Because the issue isn’t just his first year of arbitration. Three-year arbitration guys get about 40%/60%/80% of their market value. Four-year guys get about 30%/50%/70%/90%. So he’ll not only get an extra arb. year, but more in each of the other three years as well.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 1:52 AM EDT up reply actions  

you have a source for that?

i always thought it was 20/40/60/80?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 1:57 AM EDT up reply actions  

I've read it a few places

I know I’ve seen it referred to as the conventional wisdom at Fangraphs. It’s 40/60/80 for standard 3-year, but 30/50/70/90 for four-year. Of course it makes sense that each of the final three years would be higher than the a normal three-year arb. award because the baseline that it is starting from is higher.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

hmm...that would make a slight difference in my thought process on this move....

b/c it would take it from a couple million dollar move to $10 m +

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

I also think there's no difference between...

5/2011 and 4/2012 service time-wise. I believe if you wait until after 5/1 it makes a difference.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Trust me

2012-2017 are six full seasons. 2011 is his 7th (partial) season.

If the Royals called him up in mid-April 2012, then his six full seasons would be 2013-2018 with the 7th partial season being 2012.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess not with this GM

Some other GM’s would have been smart enough to keep him in the minors. More evidence that Moore is incompetent.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please don't take this the wrong way, because I don't know

Is there any history of an organization holding their top hitting prospect in AAA for more than a year if he is destroying AAA pitching when they do not have an established major leaguer currently at his natural position?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was wondering this too

If Hos hit like this all year and you didn’t allow him to come up, I think you’d have one pissed off prospect on your hands.

by Prime2U on May 5, 2011 7:33 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

we're both online...

but I guess the burden is on me

fine

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

yeah well, like, whatever man

HOSMER 4 LYFE!

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

Here's the thing

Adrian Gonzalez performed very well, but I wouldn’t say he was demolishing AAA pitching.

Berkman you might have a case for, but even he was called up in 1999 and 2000, the latter of which he played 114 games during that season, and he had a very similar stat line to Hosmer’s before he was called up in 2000 for good, but even he wasn’t at Hosmer’s level:

Berkman 2000 AAA: 31 games, .330/.479/.563
Hosmer 2011 AAA: .26 games, 439/.525/.582

Martinez hit well, and got on base at the pace you would expect from him, but he never really displayed the power that you would want from his position at the time (3B), although I will say he would have been an upgrade over Jim Presley at third, especially with the bat, but I’m willing to bet the huge knock on him was defense, which isn’t really a question about Hosmer, and so that worked against E-Mart in a way that it doesn’t work against Hosmer.

Ludwick played parts of five seasons for two organizations while he had “huge numbers” in the minors before he stuck in 2007, so that’s an inadequate comp.

Magglio Ordonez is a very good example though.

So one of those examples is valid I’d say.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 9:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

And none of these players were ranked in BA's Top 25

Hosmer has been there twice, at #24 and #8.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 9:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

So one of those examples is valid I’d say.

Oh please. You demanded examples. You got some. Then you dismiss them. You’re really not interested in examples.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

I am interested in examples that answer my question

Magg’s is the only one that qualified given the perameters.

And I wouldn’t call one player saying it “happens all the time”.

Come on, Scott. Be respectful. We can do this together.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

PS: Rewind Yourself

If we’re going to do this, let’s do it the right way. I don’t dismiss your opinion without considering it, so don’t dismiss mine when I am actually considering what is being posted.

Is there any history of an organization holding their top hitting prospect in AAA for more than a year if he is destroying AAA pitching when they do not have an established major leaguer currently at his natural position?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

The problem is that from how you responded to Will’s examples, I think you are unwilling or unable to objectively look at the examples. I think you are looking for excuses to dismiss them.

But here’s the problem with your question. The situation in which you should hold such a player down in AAA is pretty uncommon. If the team is decent and thus has a real chance of contending, they will call up the player, and they should. If the team is rebuilding but not anywhere close to contending (in terms of years), they will call up the player, and they should (give or take). In this situation, the Royals aren’t multiple years away from contention. They are improving and have a ton of prospects which mean that contention is a reasonable possibility in the fairly near future. Therefore the Royals are in a fairly rare sweet spot where keeping Hosmer in AAA for one full season makes a ton of sense.

So, to be clear, gaming service time clocks happens all the time. And teams do so in ways that make sense to that team given its resources and where it is in the building, re-building, re-loading cycle.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think you are unwilling or unable to objectively look at the examples.

That’s funny, because that’s exactly what I did. And it’s not like I just came back and said, “no they aren’t real comparisons la la la” I actually gave reasonable arguments against why they aren’t fair comparisons. And I guarantee that if you looked at it objectively, you would agree that Ordonez’s minor league history is the only reasonable comp to Eric Hosmer’s to this point.

The situation in which you should hold such a player down in AAA is pretty uncommon.

I 100% agree with you. This is a fairly uncommon situation.

If the team is rebuilding but not anywhere close to contending (in terms of years), they will call up the player, and they should (give or take)

Can’t this be a gray line dependent upon the player whom you are calling up to the major leagues in the first place? A lot of players called up to non-contenders are A)called up to see what they have and B)called up to make them established major league players, so they can either trade them off, or give them experience ahead of any other prospects soon to be brought up.

Therefore the Royals are in a fairly rare sweet spot where keeping Hosmer in AAA for one full season makes a ton of sense.

I agree from a purely corporate standpoint, but there is a human element to this, as others have not so eloquently put it.

Hypothetical:
If you have an employee who is vastly outperforming his job role, and comes due for a promotion in your company, how does that employee react when you don’t give it to him, and shuffle your feet for an entire year until you decide to promote him, which also happens to be the exact same time that his salary was mandated to rise anyway?
Before you respond, I am well aware that baseball is a different sort of business altogether, but isn’t there some gravity to the statement, that if you wait around and shuffle your feet, and make your employees resent you, that they are highly unlikely to re-sign with your company when their contract runs out? Particularly when they have an agent like Boras in their ear, reminding them of that year they left you to toil in the minors?

So, to be clear, gaming service time clocks happens all the time.

I agree, but going back to those examples, Ordonez was really the only case where you could say that the FO was gaming the service clock to get an additional year of service time out of their player.

So, to be clear, I am not in the “calling him up now is a good idea” crowd, but I am certainly not in the “waiting until next June” crowd either. I think waiting until the Super-2 deadline is the best option, given both the corporate and human elements at play here.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you have an employee who is vastly outperforming his job role, and comes due for a promotion in your company, how does that employee react when you don’t give it to him, and shuffle your feet for an entire year until you decide to promote him, which also happens to be the exact same time that his salary was mandated to rise anyway?

If a guy langishes in the minors for a long time, then I can see a downside. But we’re talking about a 21-year-old and this being is one and only season in AAA. I can’t see him getting really pissed off because he thinks that good 21-year-olds always get called up with less than one season of AAA ball. They don’t always get promoted. And it’s not like they are having him wait for years.

Before you respond, I am well aware that baseball is a different sort of business altogether, but isn’t there some gravity to the statement, that if you wait around and shuffle your feet, and make your employees resent you, that they are highly unlikely to re-sign with your company when their contract runs out? Particularly when they have an agent like Boras in their ear, reminding them of that year they left you to toil in the minors?

First, I don’t think it would piss him off that much. But second and more importantly, I can only think of one good young Boras client ever signing a contract extension. Therefore, I think the Royals should expect to have Hosmer for his cost controlled years and no more. This makes keeping him for 2018 all the more important.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

you said it happens all the time...

or maybe just scott did…but it doesnt happen all the time…its very rare for a top prospect who is raking and not blocked to spend more than a year in AAA.

its not an irrational demand when the statement is made for someone to back up said statement

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

thats a good one...

it only misses one of the stated criteria…the super prospect part….there are definitely guys that do it…but top prospects that arent blocked, dont.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 1:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cruz had a pretty good rep in the minors

i’m just skimming through these comments so i have no idea what your criteria are/were. Isn’t it tougher for the Hispanic kids to be labeled as a “super prospect” if they sign as free agents rather than being a high-profile draft pick?

Also I kind of remember Ryan Howard toiled in Philly for a while being blocked by Thome.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

yeah...ryan howards the type im talking about...

but he was an older draft pick who was blocked.

as far as the LA guys go…its a 2 way street…they arent as well known when they’re signed…but scouts generally have a couple extra years of professional data/scouting reports on them. We have more legitimate data on Gary Sanchez than on Bubba Starling b/c he’s not playing uneven high school competition.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 1:59 AM EDT up reply actions  

In my opinion, Friedman, Beane, Epstein, Cashman, Jack Z., probably some others

Now they would have to be managing a team like the Royals, in a similar situation with a similar player.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

smoak was up last year...non contention year

beane didnt game the service time of anderson, cahill, chris carter, etc

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Where were you four hours ago when I needed you?

Oh, billy billy billy billy billy

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh Smoak

another guy who spent considerable time in AAA

http://www.baseball-reference.com/minors/player.cgi?id=smoak-001jus

but yea, this NEVER Happens, every player gets th Heyward treatment now

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

He spent less than a full season between two years at AAA

And part of that was a send-down in 2010 when he was hitting .198/.238/.336 in the midst of being traded.

He was called up on April 23rd in 2010 after 35 games in AAA that year, where he was hitting .271/.377/.481.

He is starting to come around this season, though, his second (and what will be first full) year in the majors. Currently at .294/.396/.518, 7 2B, 4 HR, 19 RBI

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is Jack Z on your list of good GMs?

Because he seems to have a similar track record (for their first few season) to Dayton Moore so far.

This is a very superficial statement. I am not extensively familiar with the Mariners system, I just know that, from all accounts, they have vastly underperformed given their assumed talent level since Jack Z became the GM.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Again, I'm going to say this.

What about salary increases? If he starts hitting, along with all our other players, and we get a shitload of ticket sales/promotions/playoff bonuses, we will have enough to resign most everyone.

by Jack Marsh on May 5, 2011 6:32 PM EDT reply actions  

The geographic location and size of Kansas City will not allow it to have the type of revenue you are hoping for

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

As for the updated entry from Will

the Kila argument was “won” by the Dayton Moore camp.

But Hosmer is a better fit for Seitzer’s hitting methodology. Let the doubles begin.

I wouldn’t have called up Hosmer on May 5th, but I also wouldn’t have had Hosmer’s predecessor get a death sentence less than a month into the season.

Ned Yost made this happen

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:35 PM EDT reply actions  

I really like your updated piece, Will

I missed it with all the fun in the discussion thread. I do feel bad for Kila, and I really wanted him to mash. Not sure if it was ever going to happen, though.

by Royal(e) with Cheese on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I agree

Pretty impressive post, especially for how fast you it was up.

by Connor Moylan on May 5, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

it's just a jumble of thoughts...

I kinda hate to have so much Kila discussion in it, but if not now, when.

the service time issue probably deserves a full post of its own at some point

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

The service time issue

the Kila issue, and the fact Dayton probably thinks we can contend this all probably need their own posts. I thought you did a good job throwing everything together on the fly, even if my comment sounded like a backhanded compliment

by Connor Moylan on May 5, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

What can we expect from Hosmer defensively?

What percentile of starting mlb starting first basemen would you put him at defensively?
Thanks!

by Xeifrank on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm interested to see

how many comments this post finishes with. The most I have seen on one article was the one about Francoeur. I don’t think this one will break 800, but it will certainly get up there.

by Connor Moylan on May 5, 2011 6:39 PM EDT reply actions  

The problem with that is

Some of us who lack the really deep knowledge of trades and prospect are staying the hell out of it. Reading a long but not chipping in our two sense.

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Over/under on how long Hosmer takes to regrow the beard?

Being Half-Cuban means super-beardgrowing powers for The Prototype of the Process

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:42 PM EDT reply actions  

Scott Boras may have mixed Damon and Beltran here

then it kind of went haywire and Hosmer turned out to be a 1st baseman

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whats going on around the ears?

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

blaming that on the hat

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Also, who gives a shit if he gets traded?

It wouldn’t be the end of the world if he does get traded after 6 years. Hell, we could trade him for a 1b prospect!

by Jack Marsh on May 5, 2011 6:43 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't think anyone cares if he gets traded (at least from a business perspective).

However, if Hos turns out to be really good, then trading him for a prospect may be less valuable than keeping him for an extra year.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

So here's the options dayton had from my understanding...

1. Call up Hosmer now – arbitration: 2014, free agency: 2018
2. Call up Hosmer in July 2011 – arbitration: 2015, free agency: 2018
3. Call up Hosmer in April 2012 – arbitration: 2015, free agency: 2018
4. Call up Hosmer May 5, 2012 – arbitration: 2015, free agency: 2019
5. Call up Hosmer July 2012 – arbitration: 2016, free agency: 2019

This is right, right?

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

#2 is June 2011, not July

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

Im just going to roll with it

I mean yeah the Royals are playing okay right now, but there is still many months of baseball left to be played. If Hosmer comes up and does good well then good, if he comes up and struggles then we will have to deal with it then. It should be interesting to see how the fans react to this one though.
So now the question is how many Hawaiians are on the team now???

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Zero Hawaiians

unless someone was secretly born in Hawaii

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

And it comes full circle.

Right back to Luke Scott. This thing is bigger than all of us, gentlemen.

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice parlay of the game thread...

Luke Scott IS an asshole.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

or in Mexico, Missouri

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

or Cuba Missouri

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Italy, TX

Steve Balboni is Legen...Wait For It...Dary

by clintox100 on May 5, 2011 8:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

So now instead of Hawaii food night with Joel

we can have a Cuban food night!

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Candy Cuban Cigar Night!

Candy Cigarettes: America’s most shameful candy

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:53 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

They can schedule that one

directly following the faith and family day, “grab your cigars on your way out children!”

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

the Katie Horner appearance takes an unexpected turn

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 7:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

If I'm not mistaken

Texiera is Hawaiian isn’t he?

I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
"That's what speed do." Jarrod Dyson

by topekaroyal on May 5, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, but he's in Omaha

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 8:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sarpy County...

or whatever it is now

I hate our affiliate names

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's still Omaha

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fun Hosmer fact

3 Homers in Omaha, 3 Stolen Bases.

One of the two won’t hold up in the majors.

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 6:48 PM EDT reply actions  

I'm all in on the OBP though,

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well played

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

There was only one Hosmer in Omaha

you stand corrected

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apparently people are forgetting that...

are backs are against the wall

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 6:49 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Jerremy JEFFress Walker

puts batters there
(phil of the north)

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its a callback to a previous joke...

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

so much hate

on Hosmer day

Is it 2012 yet?

by Gantz9 on May 5, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

No one is hating Hosmer...

Just because he is ready, doesn’t make this the best move… Even if he comes up and hits like A-Rod did his rookie year, this doesn’t mean he should have been called up.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

1 month in AAA

doesn’t mean he’s ready. but I guess we’ll see now.

CHIEFS DYNASTY – we’re kind of a big deal

by kabrink on May 6, 2011 12:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

The Voldemort to the 60 day DL thing is mysteriously timed

to go with these Hosmer shenanigans.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 6:50 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

haha rec'd

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

He Who Must Not Be Named could return on May 22nd

but we’re making the best use of his spot while he regains his powers while attached to Matt Treanor’s head

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Please tell me that Treanor isn't using

HWSNBD’s wand again…That explains the giant whole of offensive suck that he’s been.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

TWSS

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

If you don't LOVE this move, you HATE the royals

by Loose Seal on May 5, 2011 6:52 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Agreed

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 9:59 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Well

That’s not the way I would have done it, but what’s done is done.

I just can’t bring myself to get worked up and wring my hands over what may or may not happen 7 years from now in 2018. There’s a chance that the entire major league team might be different then. Hell, how many players do we still have from our 2004 team? Zero…Granted, that was one of the worst teams ever and probably the reason those guys aren’t still playing for us. But still, a LOT of turnover will happen between now and then.

Tension is the enemy. - Charlie Lau

by aHorseWithNoName on May 5, 2011 6:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Dammit, Oakland

They had their chances to take this one.

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 7:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Teams need to stop shitting the bed against the Indians.

Time and time again, seems like every game, whoever the Tribe is playing, the other team just keeps giving up every little chance to them.

End of Line.

by TheSmokingPun on May 5, 2011 7:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Somehow, on Eric Hosmer day

we’re all fighting

maybe I am too negative

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT reply actions  

I remember the fighting on Mark Redman day.

That was horrible.

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

remember Frenchy day?

So inevitable, yet so…inevitable.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

or naive

you didn’t see this coming from miles away?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Haha.

Yeah, Will. Why would you post such a controversial fanpost?

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think we all just love too much

We’re romantics at heart.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

The Royals clearly don't

associate any given day with any given player. Otherwise, our Mexicutioner (he’ll always be that to me) would have pitched today for Cinco de Mayo, and Sean O’Sullivan would have pitched on St Patrick’s day in Spring Training.

In any case, how could May 5th mean anything more to Royals fans when it’s already George Brett’s birthday? (Happy

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Brett's bday is May 15th

I know because it was the same as my Mom’s, and that was a big source of pride when I was growing up. Aww, it doesn’t take much when you are a kid.

by Royal(e) with Cheese on May 5, 2011 7:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, I realized the mistake

5/15, not 5/5. I thought I had erased that line before I hit post. That’s why the post cuts off after “Happy”, I had stopped writing there.

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 5, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

the reactions are very emotional

Bc we are all attached to these two guys in one way or another. Plus all the other circumstances, and how it came out of nowhere… perfect storm

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 10:49 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hosmer has to play everyday, or damn near everyday

Is Getz the odd man out in this move? I would hate for Wilbet to take away DH from Hosmer. If he doesn’t get his AB’s then this truly is a terrible move

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 7:08 PM EDT reply actions  

we need to bring back Bloomquist

none of those guys can play the OF, so they just should be cut

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 7:10 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

we don't do platoons

so Ned will just try to randomly play Getz, Aviles, and Betemit in 2 of 3 games, benching 1 of 3 every game

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Isn't that a platoon?

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

It would be a platoon if they strictly played against right or left handed hitters...

That wont’ be the case, they will be played at random, whenever the Manager feels its time.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

not really

I think platoons are more of a L/R thing, the Carousel would just be a random Ned being Ned thing.

Getz and Aviles are better v. LHP too. Betemit is better as a LHB.

But Yost is in love with Getz, so it’s the carousel

Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!

by BHWick on May 5, 2011 7:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm boiling down this argument to one question...

is there ANY chance Moore was going to leave Hosmer in AAA until mid-April 2012?

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT reply actions  

hah

scroll up!

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

If Kila had gone lights out hitting, then there is a chance.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

Moore is clearly over-reacting to Hosmer's hot start

or just reacting, if you prefer

a combination of events led to this

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

RIP

Kila Ka’aihue: September 4, 2008 – May 5, 2011

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:15 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

I wish this post was the truth

And all that time between 2008 and 2011 he would have been given a shot

by Connor Moylan on May 5, 2011 7:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

You and me, both

except for the truth about him being dead

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah :(

Then again, I liked Ryan Shealy a lot and wished he had a shot, too.

by sterlingice on May 5, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ryan Shealy = 478 PA as a Royal, 113 PA as a Rockie

Kila = 326 PA as a Royal

by Tito42 on May 5, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

here lies kila

blocked by an exploding bench player, the world record holder for consumption of chewing tobacco, the fastest cripple in the world, and eric hosmer.

legend has it that one day he will rise again, as a seattle mariner no less, seeking revenge on the nation that wronged him.

The WAR folks like yunel apparently. i know this, bobby cox hated going to war with this guy. ~Jon Heyman

by TheBravestWay To Block A Decent Prospect on May 5, 2011 7:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like bad analogies

So, I liken this to the Osama killing. People got all worked up arguing if it was morally right/wrong to cheer someone’s death. Well, the great thing is that it’s okay to feel either way, but to pretend there is a certain unarguable right or wrong is just silly. Yes, you can logically argue that service time issues make this a bad move. You can also argue that there are too many unknown variables between now and 2018 to make service time a significant enough factor in this argument. Even if there is a 90% chance the Royals don’t sniff .500, it is illogical to translate that particular probability as absolute fact or divine knowledge. In the same manner, it would be illogical to completely dismiss the service time issue altogether. In my opinion, this is a risky gamble, but I think the various scenarios that can occur between now and 2018 minimize the service time argument somewhat. While likely that we don’t win the division, it’s also not impossible, just unlikely. In a vacuum, this is a bad move. In the real world, it can be argued either way. I like this move, because I am an unreasonably optimistic fan that believes our chance to compete is higher than it really is. The great fucking thing, is that I can believe that, and no one can tell me with the utmost certainty that I’m wrong. You can say that probability may indicate that I would likely be wrong, but there is a statistical probability that I may be correct, even if that probability is low. Resorting to name calling and juvenile attacks is just sad in this case, no one is divinely correct in their opinion on this move. You fucking douchebag assholes, the lot of ya!

Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.

by Discodave on May 5, 2011 7:22 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Discodave ....

I think I just found my counterpart in optimism …. I say bring the wave on now! All of em. You are either all in or fold. Period.

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:03 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

What part of the wave is ready?

Moose? Scuffling in AAA
Monty? Walking 5 per 9 in AAA
Giavotella? Is really much of an upgrade right now?
Perez? Mediocre in AA?
Myers? Not exactly tearing it up in AA?

Etc etc etc.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Should have waited 40 games

I think its a bit too soon to call up Hosmer after 25 games.

by Hornets78 on May 5, 2011 7:25 PM EDT reply actions  

40 games is a good benchmark

8 starts as a pitcher as well. Someone batting a 1.000 OPS after 40 games or have an ERA less than 2.00 after 8 starts should be promoted.

by Hornets78 on May 5, 2011 7:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

40 game is not a good benchmark

thats not even 25% of the season (I know barely).

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just because something has always been done one way, doesn't mean that it should always be done one way

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

It hasn't always been done that way

The old benchmarks were 25 games and 5 starts.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

You said...
40 games a benchmark that FO’s always use for evaluation

I took you at your word as Always being Always

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Felt weird to say "GM's nowadays always use 40 games as a benchmark for evaluation."

Figured you would have known better. My bad.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

This is the first I am hearing of 40 game benchmark

So I wasn’t assuming anything, nor do I ever assume.

Of course as a general rule, I avoid using words like always and never to avoid these situations, I would have figured you would have done so too… My bad.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Apology accepted.

Let us seal your penance with a drink.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow

Kila to the Padres for anything.

Kendall to the Red Sux for anything.

by Peterman700 on May 5, 2011 7:26 PM EDT reply actions  

What?

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

It appears that he is offering ...

Kendall to the Red Sox for something of low value (thus establishing his distaste for Kendall’s playing prowess) while, at the same time, disparaging the quality of team that Boston has

"I DARE you to make less sense."

by dejackso on May 5, 2011 7:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh.

I missed the relevance and was somewhat confused which is easy at the end of the day for me to do.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

One thing to keep in mind is the extra year of arbitration has the potential to be significant.

First base is the highest paid position. In essence, it is exchanging a year when the team would pay Hosmer $400,000-$500,000 (or just above whatever the league minimum is in a couple years) versus what a first baseman could make in his last year of arbitration — Ryan Howard is getting $20 million, Prince Fielder is getting $15 million, and even a middle of the road 1B like Adam LaRoche got $7 million in his final year.

by Gopherballs on May 5, 2011 7:28 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

And more money spent on any player means less money available to be spent on others (including free agents).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

The point is that money is always finite

It’s not an unlimited budget in any season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was talking more about 2018

When he’s gone, if the Royals have to replace him with a market price (or more) FA, then that is money that can’t be spent elsewhere. And his four arbitration years could be really expensive (as a gopherballs post in this thread describes), just not FA expensive.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

expensive hos is going to be expensive in 15/16/17 and i'll be happy if that happens....

2014 there wont be a payroll crunch and thats when this added hosmer money comes into play.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

Not the point

You forget who the owner is.

by rich04 on May 5, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wal mart

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

that's not realistic

His agent is Scott Boras, and the Tulowitzki and Braun contracts have radically altered the model for long-term contracts — teams are no longer getting built-in discounts, just hedges against future inflation.

by Gopherballs on May 5, 2011 7:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hey Will

this bitch is gonna need an overflow thread!

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 7:28 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

Service time really?

Hosmer is hitting .430. Why does everyone think this is about contending now or Kila’s batting average? How about if you want to set the tone for a farm system jack full of prospects then you promote guys when they are successful.

Moustakas is struggling right now. In some small way that was probably because he was convinced that no matter what he wasn’t getting called up until mid-June when he couldn’t hit Super Two status.. So his defense sulks(errors), and he swings at a bunch of first pitches because he feels that he should just not get hurt till he’s in the show. This lights a fire under him.

On the other side.. When a guy is hitting .430 with more BB’s than K’s you need to promote him because he ISN’T LEARNING ANYTHING. He’s not hitting for power because he can’t be challenged.. so maybe he develops bad habits.. maybe we didn’t push Butler aggressively enough and that’s why he’s a singles/doubles hitter instead of a power threat because he could hit .330 in the minors with ease.

by dyehardfan on May 5, 2011 7:29 PM EDT reply actions  

service time

The Royals will still control Hosmer well into his 20’s and be able to buy his arby years, just like they did with Billy. Albeit if Hosmer produces and becomes the gold glove caliber first baseman he’s dubbed to be.

by Peterman700 on May 5, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'd be willing to bet a lot of non-prospects have hit .430 over a small sample size such as this before..

Promoting after less than 100 PAs is awful dangerous..especially when the promotion is to the majors.

All that “set the tone” stuff is just unprovable BS that doesn’t mean a thing.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 7:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

He freaking raked all year last year too.

There is that…

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

In A and AA, yes.

Wouldn’t you think the difference between AAA and MLB is JJJJUST a bit larger than the difference between AA and AAA? Maybe?

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 7:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

its once again confirmation bias

Hosmer is assumed to be awesome, so his hot start is meaningful.

Kila is assumed to suck, so his struggles are meaningful.

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thought he deserved a shot.

Huge difference. Also huge difference between a year and what Kila got.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

So they have to promote a 21-year-old in order for prospects to think they have a chance to get to the majors?

It’s not like Hosmer is a 24-year-old who has been dominating the minors for years. Do you think that prospects would become disheartened and not play well if Hosmer didn’t get called up this year? Hell no. They’d keep busting their ass to get their chance eventually.

Hosmer isn’t learning anything? Because he’s doing everything right at this moment? He really isn’t doing everything right. He still has room to grow. And he could handle one full season in AAA without any harm…in fact, with benefit to hiim and the organization.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

superior prospects develop at a superior rate...

or at least that’s what keith law said yesterday…

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not really

He could have used more time. Probably another month would have been good enough, but a whole year would have been a waste of time. Bat him 7th for now and see what he can do.

by Hornets78 on May 5, 2011 7:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

What?
He’s not hitting for power because he can’t be challenged..

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

So am I!

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on May 5, 2011 7:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

i've always wondered

what it would be like to be that person – some random meme, and all of your friends recognize you and ask you about it and what do you say? sure, i was dancing. sexy dancing.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on May 5, 2011 7:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

I love the Chive

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:43 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

how awful is the chick to stage left

that she can’t get more than an elbow?

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on May 5, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

DIRTY!!!!!!

I wholeheartedly approve. Yessir.

by Diggity Dawg on May 5, 2011 9:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think that the Royals would not be making this move right now unless they have already worked out some kind of Evan Longoria or Ryan Braun rookie type contract. 8 years, 45 million. Then the service time issue is completely null and void.

I’m excited to see Hosmer get in the lineup. Who else is changing their Friday night plans to go to the K?

by fightwookies on May 5, 2011 7:38 PM EDT reply actions   1 recs

there is some logic to that

we’ll see

i have a smiliar feeling

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Royals prospects are basically the modern-day "The Great Gatsby"

Eric Hosmer is The Green Light on Daisy’s Dock.

It’s nice to imagine that our prospects are all gonna become superstars, lead the Royals to back-to-back world series titles over the cardinals and braves in 2017 and 2018, etc. In fact, that hope is so strong that it makes us Royals fans reluctant to call up the very prospects that could make that dream a reality. We’d rather look at the process from afar and imagine the possibilities. Because, when we start to bring the prospects up, we are faced with the possibility that they’re average (or worse), that they won’t lead us to multiple titles, and that our dream was nothing more than that: a dream.

But at some point, you gotta act before it’s too late. Otherwise, you’re left with a AA Championship, a AAA Championship, the #1 farm system in 2012, and a 70-92 record for your 2011 KC Royals.

by Loose Seal on May 5, 2011 7:43 PM EDT reply actions  

Ah...

… it wouldn’t be a day on Royals Review without NY Royal bringing his unique brand of unfettered negativism to the party.

by Discolando on May 5, 2011 7:44 PM EDT reply actions  

Nah

His negativity is complete, total, and admittedly very funny. He champions himself as the bastion of objectivity but his results he’s anything but. It’s okay though, I think he likes playing the Keitzman role – bringing in readership based on making people angry.

by Discolando on May 5, 2011 7:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

... and what's up with

not being able to edit my typos? Was this forum software written in 2002?

by Discolando on May 5, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

seriously

is there any better commenting software on the web?

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let's see.

Flaws:

No functionality for e-mail or text notifications of replies to posts or comments.
No editing of comments (but this is also a NOT-flaw, because it prevents all manner of rampant douchery which comment editing enables).

I’m having trouble coming up with any other problems. The notification thing is the only feature I can think of that I’d want them to add, and looking at your own dashboard makes the lack of that feature at least tolerable.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on May 5, 2011 11:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

The commenting updates would end up a mess in posts like this one though,

that’s something I’ve never missed from SB Nation.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not for direct replies to your own comments, really.

But I’d hate to have them turned on for a POST that got this kind of traffic.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on May 5, 2011 11:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don't most do this on any comment after yours though?

Look at the threads that have moved all the way to the right, the person that started that would have 70 emails. I’ll pass on that system.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

A lot do, yes.

But there’s one big one which does not, and its code is GNU: LiveJournal. If you comment in a big thread, you only get e-mail notification of direct replies to YOUR comment, not replies to those replies. (Unless, of course, you watch the post or thread.)

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on May 5, 2011 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hell yes, Will.

@ I want to do nothing but look at my mailbox all day @

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on May 5, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

no

there’s one thing that i always wish it could do…but i cant remember what that is now

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

and yet he didn't hate the Francouer signing like most here

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sounds like somebody with no answer to his statistical arguments.

Granted, I’m not in agreement with him in this case, but give him credit for making a reasonable case.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 7:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

What arguments apply here?

There’s no ‘statistical argument’ to throwing a wet blanket on Hosmer being called up. the guy is just hunting for a reason to be angry.

by Discolando on May 5, 2011 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

I warned against this move since before the season started

Not looking for an excuse to be angry. I was worried about Moore wasting service time years for top prospects since quite a while ago. This was one of my pre-season “worst decisions possible.” Look disco, if your analysis only goes as deep as “he’s major league ready and there’s a hole for him on the team, so call him up,” then you’re not thinking too hard about this. Don’t lash out at people who are looking more deeply at the issue.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

comparing Scott to Keitzman is disgustingly offensive.

I’ll draw a line in the sand over that.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

I demand satisfaction!

Pistols at 20 paces. (Thankfully I’ve never heard Keitzman)

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

I got your back on this one NYR.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

you have heard Nick Wright though?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I haven't heard KC radio since the first half of 1999

Except for a couple of times listening to specific podcasts of segments of some KC sports radio here or there.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

This would be a duel on par with

Aaron Burr vs. Alexander Hamilton.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

630 comments and running. I'm gonna post a pic of my daughter

to instigate an overflow thread

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 7:45 PM EDT reply actions  

uhh

batter nine you sucky

by marbotty on May 5, 2011 7:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on May 5, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

http://jeweledeye.zenfolio.com/p511236404

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

What's the Royals' likely window of opportunity here? Through 2014/5?

Before Butler/Gordon/Soria’s contracts all run out? I’m willing to lose one year of service time for Hosmer to try to time this correctly and let him take his lumps in the meantime.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 7:49 PM EDT reply actions  

I hope so.

I remember the Rays’ being said to have been 3-4 years, at least first time around.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 8:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Still looking for an answer to this question

Is there any history of an organization holding their top hitting prospect in AAA for more than a year if he is destroying AAA pitching when they do not have an established major leaguer currently at his natural position?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 7:52 PM EDT reply actions  

false choice

he could be promoted in a month and not risk super 2 status

and yes, it has happened

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree about it happening in a month and not risking super-2 status, but that still doesn't answer the question

Regardless of whether or not happens in a month isn’t really the point when we are talking about holding Hosmer until mid-April next year.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

well not everyone is on the same page

some are saying he shouldn’t be promoted at all this year

others are saying after the super two deadline

It is May 6th. People are acting like Hosmer has dominated AAA for months now. He hasn’t even faced the entire league yet.

He posted a high batting average for a month and Moore pulled the trigger.

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

why do we really care about super 2 status?

its a couple million dollars of glass’ money…in a year where the payroll will be tiny

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that means more money than he'd otherwise get in each of four arbitration years

And more money spent on him means less money spent elsewhere. Glass doesn’t have bottomless pockets.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

he definitely doesnt....

but i dont think we’ll be close to Glass’ ceiling in 2014 and i highly doubt the extra money is rolling over fully

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

I have not read all these comments....

but it seems to me that Ned said early in the year that it was only fair to give 250 AB’s before one makes a decision regarding success rate at the MLB level.

by Steve Hovley on May 5, 2011 7:59 PM EDT reply actions  

Kila has 326 total

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 8:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally true

but over those three years he has not emitted whiff of being a serviceable MLB hitter. If he was putting up even OK numbers right now this would not have happened. But he has been horrific.

I would not have made this move today, but this one doesn’t piss me off like some GMDM moves. Between Kila hitting like TPJ and Hosmer killing it in AAA, I can’t say this is completely irrational.

by Black and Gold on May 5, 2011 9:19 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

but over those three years he has not emitted whiff of being a serviceable MLB hitter.

I would disagree with that. If you’re going to bring the hyperbole, there’s a strong burden of proof hazard.

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

you've watched the games, right?

he’s looked awful…its not just the stats…this guy is so lost at the plate in the major leagues…he’s not going to contribute in the major leagues for anyone

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Theres a difference

One had it. Lost it and maybe found it again. The other has never had it and shows all the signs of never knowing what it is.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's it cancel the draft.

Everyone gets minimum 500 AB’s to see if they have it. I’ll start the line

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

looking this bad?

id say very few…ive watched some awful hitters….TPJ, yuni, bloomie, guillen,kendall….none outside of tpj have looked this bad for this long of a stretch

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Jose Guillen

200 PAs from 5/21/09 to 9/2/09

.214 / .260 / .332

Jason Kendall – 203 PAs from 6/28/10 to 8/30/10

.243 / .307 / .266

This took me literally 5 minutes to find. I can tell you, there are countless more. Regardless of whether you think Kila has just looked worse than these guys, the numbers don’t bear that out.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2011 1:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

i said looked this bad...as in watching them at the plate....

he’s looked clueless…that was far more concerning to me than the actual results in the relatively small sample size. He looked clueless against off speed pitches from the outset this year…and it hadnt gotten any better by yesterday

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 1:25 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah I'm sure

Kendall’s bat control “looked” great during that stretch.

And Guillen’s intimidating presence probably “looked” fierce when he was OBPing .260.

I’ve watched almost all of Kila’s ABs this year. He has not looked good. Neither has Carl Crawford. Neither have a number of major leaguers. It was just too hasty.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2011 1:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

what about kilas approach to off speed pitches or his performance when swinging at off speed pitches...

gave you hope that he’d turn it around? I havent watched Crawford this year but i guarantee he looks nothing like kila has at the plate. Crawford is being killed by a BABIP 100 points lower than his career numbers.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

numbers are very important...but they're not the only thing that matters...

otherwise the hundreds of kilas before kila wouldve all worked out

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Will here's your overflow thread girl

http://jeweledeye.zenfolio.com/p511236404

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:02 PM EDT reply actions  

haha

that was when she was modeling.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

Not sure if I am making this up,

but I thought GMDM stated that if a hitter had a dominant month or a pitcher a dominant month he was gonna move up a level.

Stuck following the Royals since 1976.

by A. B. Aird on May 5, 2011 8:09 PM EDT reply actions  

Heres how i see it

The worst part of this move is that Kila is gone. He was not given enough time to establish himself… maybe this is him, and it wouldnt get any better… but he atleast earned a chance to prove that. 326 PA’s or whatever it is is just not enough.

About Hosmer:
-The way it looks, he was going to force his way up here before April of 2012 regardless. Claiming that we should’ve waited til then to call him up might be the smart thing to say, but is very unrealistic.
- Since he was going to be up here at some point anyways, why not do it now while we are still playing good ball and in the early hunt? Kila wasn’t helping, and if we truly believe we can compete this year ( I’m not convinced but warming to the idea) then this was the smart thing to do. Hosmer will most likely be a major upgrade from the performance we were getting from Kila.
- Lastly, debating about 2018 is very tough to do right now. Bitching about losing that year is banking on A) The royals being in contention that year B) Hosmer will produce enough to warrant this discussion (like scott always says, most prospects will fail anyways..) and C) the Royals not signing him to a long term contract. And long term DOES NOT have to mean only two years of FA, contrary to what it sounds like on here sometimes.

Overall, im disappointed that Kila is done. He deserved better. However, Hosmer was forcing his way up here- this was going to happen sometime or another. The only thing that could’ve maybe prevented it was Kila kicking ass. That obviously didnt happen. We are 17-14 and just improved, and get to watch our best prospect every day. Count me in.

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 8:10 PM EDT reply actions  

and d) the royals regressing this year

The chances of all that happening is still decent but not enough to call this move horrible IMO

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 8:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

I'm gonna make me a new website

with a tricky kewl front page

with anything you click on links to this thread

and call it

http://www.thisishowyoubeatanalready.dead.horse.moretodeath.witha.platicstraw.com

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:17 PM EDT reply actions  

Can't reply to anyone.

But I will say that 320 PA is enough for Kila. But has anyone yet mentioned anything about Robinson. There is a good chance he is Kila 2.0, but they have pretty much just ended any chance of him getting a shot.

Stuck following the Royals since 1976.

by A. B. Aird on May 5, 2011 8:19 PM EDT reply actions  

is this a record breaking thread?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:21 PM EDT reply actions  

if it is you can subtract somewhere around 20 of my posts from the total, because they were totally meaningless.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

and now I'm aiming to make that 40 just to run it up.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

oh?

I bet you can’t.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on May 5, 2011 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

^^might be^^ for a non-game

What else could? Hillman canned?

Stuck following the Royals since 1976.

by A. B. Aird on May 5, 2011 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Frenchy getting signed was massive

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .4218, Chiefs win% = .3625

by averagegatsby on May 5, 2011 8:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

massive good payback for 29 30 31 games

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

GLASSSTILLSUXXX

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I'm in the minority but I really had hoped he'd get more time in AAA

Give those pitchers a little time to adjust to him so he would have to make adjustments. Basically let him play that cat and mouse game a little closer to the majors- 1 month is too small of a sample size to me to say he’s ready.

I just have this picture of a despair.com poster in my head with Alex Gordon and the words: “Why learn your lesson the hard way when you can make the same mistake again and again?”

by sterlingice on May 5, 2011 8:22 PM EDT reply actions  

if I go upstairs I have to watch American Idol.

so this is better.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:27 PM EDT reply actions  

Why can't the Royals compete this year?

Their holes are positions that they can fill from the high minors, fairly easily. 1B, 3B (perhaps with Betamit there, that’s solid this year), CF, C and 2 SP (also assuming that Aviles at 2B is near-average). Hosmer, Moustakus, Cain, Monty, and Lamb cover 5 of those 6.

I suppose it’s debatable whether those players actually represent an upgrade at those positions; I’d surmise that they will. This year. 2011. The only player I see currently playing out of his mind is Franceour and don’t necessarily think his regression to the mean needs to be dramatic. There’s enough hanging curves in the American League to get that guy 34 HR.

Bring Hosmer up, get a few more butts in the seats, win a few more games, make a run at it. It’s why we watch the games. I don’t give a fuck if the Royals may or may not maintain cost-control over a stud prospect in 2018.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on May 5, 2011 8:32 PM EDT reply actions  

Because most players take a year or two to adjust to the Major League level of play.

This is, again, why I do support calling Hosmer up now, so he will be approaching his prime while Gordon, Soria, and Butler are still under contract.

But it’s simply unrealistic to think that everybody is going to come up and suddenly perform even above replacement level consistently.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Is that to say that...

Ka’aihue, Aviles (at 3B in my original thought), Cabrera, Peyna/Kendall, Davies, and either of SOS or Hochevar are going to produce at replacement here on out this season?

First, I know Hochevar isn’t going anywhere, and SOS has done well in his slot. But those other players all suck, and will continue to suck this year. Yes, I do think their replacements currently the minors can.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on May 5, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

uh...

…their replacements currently the minors can perform above replacement.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on May 5, 2011 8:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

fergawdsakes really?

go ahead NYRoyal. run with this one.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

but not until December, so save them for next year.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

for the Royals?

not really.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

or 30,000

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Lost in all this madness

is the fact that for the first time in a long time, the Royals are really fucking interesting now.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 8:42 PM EDT reply actions  

No question

Not good, but interesting. It will be fun to watch Hosmer do his thing. That is unless he has a slow start and the fans give up on him.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I pray for his body language being good

Given how quickly people turned on Gordon, the emotions run strong on these things.

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

no smiling is good! (Francouer)

no its bad (DeJesus)

I’m just concerned with how this effects the “Billy Butler was mocked by his teammates as a rookie” story that won’t die

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Hosmer is safe

Because he’s a fuckin’ badass. Which means the Facebook fans will love him. (unless he doesn’t hit well over the next month)

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does he like to get his jersey dirty?

It’s the little things that lead to greatness.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 8:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jacob Lusk should have been gone long ago.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 8:49 PM EDT reply actions  

right now this may seem like I'm being lazy about all this

but so far I’ve been trying to read and keep up with all that’s being said, and I’m getting more and more confused. Part of me agrees taht Hos should have remained in AAA, that that would be the smart move. Another part of me agrees that his coming up now is good, so we can see what we have. Should Kila have been given more time? IDK, he was sucking pretty bad, (i feel bad about it but he was not good). Let’s see what this kid can do.
Everyone seems to agree that if Hos becomes good or even all star player, that the Royals won’t be able to afford him. He’ll likely be traded before 2018 gets here anyway, so what’s the real long term harm?
So it wasn’t the smartest move, it may just be the start of the Royals bringing up prospects over time so that they aren’t all hitting arb or FA at the same time, forcing the team to have a large jump in salaries all at once. Please remember, I’m not the smartest about baseball business.

I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
"That's what speed do." Jarrod Dyson

by topekaroyal on May 5, 2011 8:51 PM EDT reply actions  

Everyone seems to agree that if Hos becomes good or even all star player, that the Royals won’t be able to afford him. He’ll likely be traded before 2018 gets here anyway, so what’s the real long term harm?

If the Royals are going to trade him, it would be a year or two before he hits free agency. Regardless, the trade would happen a year earlier now than if he were called up mid-April 2012. So we’re trading a year down the line for 2011, even if he’s traded.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ok, fair enough

but if we trade for a top 1b prospect, or happen to draft another good one, is it still a bad idea?
I’m not trying to be unrealistic or a dreamer, just asking questions.

I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
"That's what speed do." Jarrod Dyson

by topekaroyal on May 5, 2011 8:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

When I said “let’s see what this kid can do”, I was referring to Hos

I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
"That's what speed do." Jarrod Dyson

by topekaroyal on May 5, 2011 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Does this mean KC no longer has the greatest farm system in the history of whatever?

Hosmer, Crow, Dyson, Coleman, Collins…..big hits to the GSITHOW.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 8:54 PM EDT reply actions  

it is actually an interesting quetsion though

as soon as Tampa completes their draft, they probably pass the Royals, in all seriousness

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 9:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

i dunno....depends on how many guys we call up...

arguelles and odorizzi are gonna make big jumps….likely at least one of cuthbert/yambati/ventura….adam is likely a top 100 guy at this point, etc. The rays have a ton of picks….but none really early…none that are normally top 100 guys right away. They’re also going to graduate a few guys…hellickson, jennings, another pitcher i can think of.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Too Soon

Nice BA but power hasn’t come around in AAA. I hope I’m wrong, but I think Hos is being rushed because of factors other than his performance.

I don’t care what you guys say, Kila hasn’t had enough plate appearances this season to get a full evaluation in. If this were the case, I’d be dropping Alex Rios from my fantasy team.

by Tito42 on May 5, 2011 9:00 PM EDT reply actions  

Will has this thread broken a record yet?

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on May 5, 2011 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

I assume that game threads are excepted?

There was one game last year where nobody set up an overflow and it went over 1000

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 9:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I recced this

even though i really prefer to be highly inebriated during Royals games.

Nick Swisher is handsome.

by ChrisCEIT on May 5, 2011 9:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

Who's running

the Hosmer’s first at bat poll? I say single to center.

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 9:04 PM EDT reply actions  

Fly out to right.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bullshit....

The Natural variety Home Run…ball smashes jumbotron, which collapses in a heap of sparks, smoke, and glitter, a cloud of doves takes emerges from within the wreckage, and rose petals fall from the upper deck

by Nighthawk at the Diner on May 6, 2011 1:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

He will reach base on a catchers interferance

just like one past Royal did, even though I have forgotten his name

The picture is a Chiefs pumpkin, yeah that is right a Chiefs pumpkin.

by jrcnc on May 5, 2011 9:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

An rbi dbl

I could have been a Rhodes Scholar, except for my grades.
-- Duffy Daugherty
"That's what speed do." Jarrod Dyson

by topekaroyal on May 5, 2011 9:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Walk

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on May 5, 2011 9:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

8 pitch at bat

opposite field double down the line. Mark it down.

If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base. — Dave Barry

by ChangingSpeeds on May 5, 2011 10:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

reaches base on an Olivo

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on May 5, 2011 11:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

^^he will knock the stitches off the ball^^

Like a rookie I saw for the NY Knights

Stuck following the Royals since 1976.

by A. B. Aird on May 5, 2011 9:07 PM EDT reply actions  

he will strikeout BUT

he will swing the bat so hard that it breaks in mid air, with a chunk of wood embedding itself in Kendalls skull. Kendall then takes it out, kills a bear with it and uses it as his fork.

Now THATS bat control.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 9:09 PM EDT reply actions  

^^^ I doubt that**

Hosmer won’t swing and miss

Stuck following the Royals since 1976.

by A. B. Aird on May 5, 2011 9:11 PM EDT reply actions  

EVUH!

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Light Tower Power

with power, power, a game face and plus power

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 11:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Go big and bring them all up GMDM

After 25 years I’m ready for the young guys to play. NOW. This crap of maintaining control thru 2018 is silly. Who would run a company planning to be bad for the current year to let there be hope for 2018. Go now. The more I read this site there is a few that whine for the sake of whining. Other than canning Kendall you will never see any credit given to any move. There always has to be a black cloud to some. I am ready for the sun to shine now and worry about the weather of 2018 then because baseball is about as predictable

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 9:12 PM EDT reply actions  

Who would run a company planning to be bad for the current year to let there be hope for 2018.

It’s called “rebuilding” and every organization does it. Some take it seriously and reap the rewards. Some do not and real the whirlwind.

Think deeper, Iowa Royal.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

ok, ok Scott

think of it like a little kid getting to open ONE present early on Christmas eve…….Christmas is still coming up soon, but we deserve a little pre-parade gift from Dayton!

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

I thought that's what the bullpen guys were

A little present which shows promise for the future, but we get to experience it now. Hosmer is like opening the big present in the big box which dwarfs the rest.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

Its like Dayton read McKinneys

worst moves list and said fuck it.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 9:15 PM EDT reply actions  

He pretty much does that every year

And I never can bring myself to predict that he’ll do just that.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

w/o looking it up

how is Dayton doing? I remember 3 off the top of my head.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 9:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

So far he’s done two already. He’s on pace to do two more. He’s on pace to not do two others. And the remaining four are up in the air.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

I dislike Dayton, obviously

Everyone has their opinion and I respect that. I like this move, but that may be the selfish fan in me. However, if this does signal that Dayton is “going for it”, I worry greatly he will make a very bad trade this summer.

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 9:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

thats the fear...

i think the hosmer movie is a B+ or so with the only way an A was possible was 4/20 next year…now, if they start trading away prospects….thats awful…i really doubt that happens though. Worst case scenario in my mind is that he holds on to Frenchy, Francis, Chen and Melky when there are decent offers on the table

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

I will say one thing is seemingly become obvious

Dayton calls up “his” guys much faster when they are performing……

He's got tools, son!

by DaytonSucks on May 5, 2011 9:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Kila had to go

He had enough to time to confirm what the scout’s always said. Slow bat through the zone. Since the opposing team’s SS and 3B have proven they can catch the lazy flyball off the slow and barrel dipping bat. KIla is done at major league level at least with the royals. May have been different if he would have come with team out of spring training in 2009 but that we will never know. Long way of saying I agree with you.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 9:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much time would you give Hosmer?

How long of hitting like Kila do you give him before you punt?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guess two years at each level just wasn't enough.

Why did he spend 2 years at each level? I think had he made it to the bigs in 2008/2009 there would have been time to fix his swing.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 9:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

They are apples and oranges

I have watched them both in Omaha. Kila many times say 100 PA’s and Hosmer maybe 15 AB. Night and Day swings. Anyhow say 200 AB’s for Hosmer if he hits like Kila back he goes to Omaha. Then we still do not have to worry about 2018.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 9:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

if he looks as awful as kila did....

i send him back to AAA within a month

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

i feel like my head is going to explode from this thread

Hosmer is obviously bad for RR

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 9:30 PM EDT reply actions  

He's good for page views

Will is getting RICH!

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Holy crap

Are we getting charged for this??

by Black and Gold on May 5, 2011 9:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Check your bank account

You’ll notice $0.02 missing.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

Mine is already empty.

My suspicions that I do not, in fact, have any Nigerian relatives turned out to be right.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 9:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well if you were smart, like me

You’d invest with that nice fellow James, who tells me I can make ten thousand a month working from home. Why would a perfect stranger lie to me?

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 9:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

So they can make ten thousand a month working from home?

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fortunately

I’ve gotten less from the Nigerians and James types and more the male enhancement folks lately. Damn spam filter.

by Mark LaFlamme on May 5, 2011 9:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

Whenever I receive those male enhancement ads

I hope that they’re not attempting to do targeted advertising.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

setting up to be one of the biggest traffic days...

and this broke late in the day

tons of people googleing eric hosmer

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 11:19 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sweet Sassy Molassy, You Guys...

I saw the news break about 3 hours ago, then went out for dinner w/the Mrs. At that point, there was about 150 comments.

I just waded ( read : lightly scanned ) the almost 900 comments we’ve got now.

Gawd haff mercy on our wretched souls if we ever make the playoffs…we’ll make the Internet fold in on itself. SUPANOVA!!! THE HUMANITY!!! TAKE ME NOW, JEEZUS – TAKE ME NOW!!!!!!

( sidebar – I mighta had a couple drinks w/dinner. burp. )

by Diggity Dawg on May 5, 2011 9:45 PM EDT reply actions  

I took a nap immediately after the game

So I feel like I was the last to find out.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 9:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm just finding out 9pm

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:13 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Serious question for those who like the Hosmer promotion

If the Royals end up winning 74 games this season, even with Hosmer in the lineup as a regular from May 6 on, would this promotion prove to be a mistake?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 9:56 PM EDT reply actions  

I still don't think so

Because I still suspect the Royals’ present window of opportunity to be closed before 2018 anyway, I’d just as soon get him used to the major league level now.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 9:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

If it turns out to help him dominate in 2012

and therefore make KC a contender next year, it would be hard to call it a mistake.

by Black and Gold on May 5, 2011 9:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

depends on Hosmer's numbers...

if he puts up huge numbers, then no, if he is alex gordon 2.0, then yes.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

But if he puts up good numbers and those numbers are wasted another non-contending season

…then what’s the point? Isn’t that the very definition of a wasted year of service time?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

How much value is there in that?

It’s not like Moore would be considering signing a 1B/DH FA this offseason regardless. So what does more positive information about Hosmer give us? We’d feel a little more comfortable with that part of the major league team. That’s it. Hell, if he had a good AAA season in 2011 and then was the 1B starter in 2012, we’d all be very optimistic about him.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

there's already going to be a ton of question marks in 2012

this will get us more comfortable with knowing if we’re going to be legit contenders or not. If Hosmer’s a beast, we know we’re a couple pieces away and maybe we sign a legit #1 starter this offseason. I’m not saying that’s all Dayton’s thinking, just another possibility.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 10:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

if we want to contend in 2012,

we’re going to need to start compiling those pieces now…

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

but if he doesn't work out,

2012 probably isn’t going to work. no need to buy more talent.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Well, it isn't all about Hosmer

There are other prospects as well, and some of them are likely to succeed. And if Moore signs FA’s, hopefully he won’t be signing one-year guys. If he signs multi-year deals (which is what would be necessary to get actually good players), then the Royals would likely have them through 2014 or more. So signing FA’s shouldn’t be all or even mostly about how good the 2012 team is likely to be.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

but if 2012 is about contending...

we need to know a little more than just that we’ve got a bunch of possible prospects that might work out.

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

But I still think that's about all we'll know

4-5 months of information doesn’t prove that a player is and will be a good major leaguer. It is good information, but you still don’t know. It takes years to determine if a player is a success or bust. Even if you call up all of the top prospects, you still have a lot of question marks (even at their positions) for the 2012 season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

so we should just hope that we might...

be able to contend next year and make no progress toward that end this season?

by Bart41 on May 5, 2011 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Gordon and the bullpen are making progress toward that end this season

And I’m more willing to call up pitchers who REALLY look like they are MLB-ready, as pitchers tend to peak earlier, therefore we’d be more likley to get their peak years even if we call them up this year. Although quite frankly, I’d still rather hold off. Maybe if Moose really came around and dominated, I’d call him up as he’s already had AAA time before this season. Maybe. But largely my answer to your question is “yes.”

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

So what is the right time in AAA?

1 year 2 years. lets go for 4 and he will really be ready

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree that is about right

Maybe I can be a GM like you some day

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

We can alternate years

I’ll take the even years.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Good

That give you 2018. We are going to be really crappy that year because I didn’t sign or trade anyone in 2017 after bringing them all up in 2011. The way I figure that will give me 3 rings to your 2. HOF here I come

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

2012 and contending is a bit of a reach

still.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:39 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

When Greinke was traded, I thought it became

generally agreed that 2013 was now the target year. This year’s .500 start has made some people wonder.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 10:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Would it be a mistake if they win 86 games.

And the division. We won’t know till it happens.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

It could happen!

Are you psychic? Do you know it won’t happen?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Serious Question

Why are NY and McDonald not the GM? Why are NY and McDonald not on the payroll for their vast bitterness…oh excuse me “knowledge”.

Now to my serious question for you. If some how the Royals end up in the playoffs in 2012 and start a run of division championships by 2013 where they win the division every year through 2018 what are you going to gripe about then? Would you rather go back to the Baird era? Not me. All NY and McDonald do is shoot down anyone’s hope and joy by the fact that the R’s are 17-14.

I guess you would rather see Kila hit .200 for the next month. Great. He was a huge hole in the lineup. We have two more in whoever is playing catcher and 2B. Are you going to be equally as pissed if Mouse comes up and moves Aviles to 2B in June? Or how about switching out Davies for Duffy or Montgomery.

If the R’s were to ever win another WS I wonder what attribute about that team would be so horrible that we have to fire DM or Yost. That will be entertaining.

by fanatickc on May 5, 2011 10:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

 But if it made him feel better, then I endorse his rant (in the abstract).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Why are NY and McDonald not the GM?

I’ve been asking that question for years! I’m considering a lawsuit against the Royals for having never hired me.

. If some how the Royals end up in the playoffs in 2012 and start a run of division championships by 2013 where they win the division every year through 2018 what are you going to gripe about then?

Those powder blue uniforms. Don’t get me started!
I guess you would rather see Kila hit .200 for the next month.

I’d rather give him a real chance and not give up on him early. He may very well never pan out. I’d give him a real shot. He hasn’t had one yet.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Dayton is GM

Dayton, ipso facto, has knowledge superior to that of any other non-GM in America.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 5, 2011 10:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

100% agree.

However the “Black Cloud” group do provide good insight sometimes and laughter the rest of the time.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think he's not realizing that he's living on hope, rather than reality

The reality is that some players are good and some are bad. Some prospects will succeed and most will fail. Dayton Moore will do some things right, but most things wrong.

Another reality is that this team isn’t close to contending, even this year in this division.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

More I like to see the team moving forward.

Moore has disqusted me more than I care to say. Jacobs Kendall Ankiel and many more.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The thing is, signings as Guillen, Meche, etc.

Were an example of trying to contend before the team was prepared. If prospects are to be called up, a desire to contend this year shouldn’t be the reason.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

I like the fact that he will be getting MLB AB's

other than that, in the grand scheme of life, the universe and everything… This is probably a bad move and a mistake.

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 5, 2011 10:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

MLB AB's that Kila proved he could not handle.

Kila raked the likes of L. Mendoza, J Suppan while in Omaha. The guys past their prime trying to make it back to the MLB. However when the AAA team threw there stud prospect who were on his way to the big league roster. The hole in his swing that we saw the last month was there. Scouts saw it. The Royals had to knew who he it go against and who he didn’t it. They gave him enough time.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes

No batter has every struggled in their first 300 ABs in the major

by sterlingice on May 5, 2011 10:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Alex Gordon proved that he's a failure as a MLB hitter

He should have been released years ago!

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Should have kicked Zack to the curb after 2005

Clearly 2004 was a fluke and he was done

Oh, and Angel Berroa- we should have gone 8 years/$100M after his ROY season.

And, oh hell- the list goes on. Again, tired- point pretty simple: 300 MLB AB, particularly non-consecutive ones, aren’t much of a sample size

by sterlingice on May 5, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

But there were quality pitchers he struggled with in the minors

While you look at 300 AB at the big leagues he struggled against the upper enchelon pitching at each step in the minors. This led to repeating each stop thru the minors.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

It's like

Gordon can’t hit breaking balls was never mentioned by the scouts shooting their wads over him until he got to the majors and couldn’t hit breaking balls.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 10:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

so when Kila does well in the minors... it means nothing

But i’m assuming its all good when its hosmer or myers or whatever

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 11:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

scouting reports matter will....

age relative to league matters

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

they didn't give him enough time

this “push” for contention is going to cause a rush in prospects, it has to. This is the first sign that 2011 will be a rush of new talent to the Royals. The trickle down effect of this will be huge. Yes it’s true that rookie pitchers tend to do well their first year in the majors because people havent seen them yet and haven’t adjusted to them, i.e. our bullpen. I joked the other day that Crow was being groomed to take Soria’s spot, after 11.2 innings pitched. Which is why sample size is important. It is impossible to judge a player in a short moment. As a GM you need to be able to look at long term and while i don’t hate the hosmer move i do think it was rushed and will cause other prospects to be rushed. Duffy is the most ready pitcher but Monty needs to fix his BB’s and they both most likely will come up within the month because of this “push” for contention. see Dontrelle Willis

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 12:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

at this point.. yes

If we aren’t going to contend in 2018 anyways then it is irrelevant. Only time will tell

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 10:34 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

depends if we're trying to live in the ideal world or the realistic world....

like ive said a million times…no GMs are leaving him down until April given the same conditions. And i think its a very good sign that the royals arent concerning themselves with a couple million 3 years down the road….in the past, that wouldve been at the forefront.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

This has been fun. I always enjoy having conversations with other good baseball minds

From what I can surmised, there are four unflappable opinions regarding this move:

1. Bad move. Should have waited until June next year.
2. Bad move. Should have waited until mid-April next year.
3. Mediocre move. Should have waited until June at least.
4. I LOVE THE ROYALS WHOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:23 PM EDT reply actions  

Which one was yours?

I was too busy smoking a pipe, wearing a smoking jacket, sitting in a mahogany lounge, playing a game of Chess with Scott McKinney and discussing the finer points of corporatization versus humanist management over glasses of brandy.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Supporting the call-up only to get him major league at bats

Because the Royals’ window of opportunity to contend will probably be well over by 2018 anyway.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on May 5, 2011 10:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ah.

Yes, I would say that you are the only person who has expressed that opinion, although it is as valid (and in some cases), more valid than others.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:30 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some others have made that argument

But most of them probably would have waited one more month and then gotten him four months of MLB time to make his adjustments before blowing up in 2012.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

I would have waited, but I'm still excited.

I’m tired of hearing about 2011 being a lost season. The Royals have been SO bad for SO long, that personally, I’m happy to have even 6 weeks of contending baseball. Scott makes a lot of very valid points, and his input is one of the main reasons I hang out on these boards. But right now I want to turn off my brain and just be excited for the future, even if it isn’t perfect.

by Pointed Stick on May 5, 2011 10:31 PM EDT reply actions  

9 more comments for a 1000

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 10:34 PM EDT reply actions  

way over that

1000 is for suckers, 1200 is where the big kids play

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Almost to 1000

Royals!!! New jersey time!!!!

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:35 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Hos is boss !!!!

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:36 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

1000!!!!!

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:37 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Dumb Question

But what happens to Betemit? He has been playing a little 1B and the guy has been raking for the last year. In fact, if Hos puts up numbers similar to Betemit’s slash line, people would be ecstatic.

But the thing is, we already have someone at 1B that can put up good offensive numbers. So why burn a year of Hos’s service time? If Hos pushes Betemit out of the lineup, we will not see a net offensive gain unless Hos has a monster year.

And if we push Betemit to 3b, Betemit’s defensive liabilities are exposed to a higher degree.

Regardless, unless Hos pitches for us, the Royals are not going anywhere this year.

by Jacob Mac on May 5, 2011 10:44 PM EDT reply actions  

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

Either a trade is in the works and GMDM feels this will sort itself out or one of Aviles/Getz are on the pine.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

The prevailing thought would have a lineup like this

Aviles 2B
Cabrera CF
Gordon LF
Butler DH
Francoeur RF
Betemit 3B
Hosmer 1B
Pena C
Escobar SS

So, Getz would (hopefully) be the odd man out, as a late-innings IF replacement a la Dyson and the OF.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 10:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bring if on

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Don't forget the return of DeJesus

my wife’s all-time favorite Royal.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Bring it on

"Stay Classy Kansas City"

by Mas Cervezas on May 5, 2011 10:50 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Just got got looking Hosmer's numbers. They are way out of wack

0.506 BABIP

only 19% LD rate
50% GB% – half of batted balls are on the ground – That is Chris Getz territory

Slash line of:
0.439/0.525/0.582

Slg of only 0.060 over his OBP

He may struggle a bit once called up.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 10:52 PM EDT reply actions  

He's proved all he needs.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 10:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yep, the infielders in AAA suck

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally agree

I was at the Nashville/Omaha game a couple weeks ago. Nashville’s infield had i think 3 errors. 2 of them were due to trying to be cute. Did get to see C. Robinson crush 2 HR’s

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

TAKE IT BACK NAO!

GIO AND ZADAWASKI ARE GODS

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 12:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be interesting to see how the "promote him now!!!!" fans react to potential struggles

I expect them to quit on him quickly.

But more importantly, this is more evidence that he really hadn’t proven that he’s MLB-ready. He still had parts of his game to work on. Sure he might very well be MLB-ready at some point this season, but Moore chose not to even wait for that. Looks like Dayton got antsy. So much for not rushing prospects.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

I genuinely wonder

If is even aware of stats like that. LD rates, GB rates. If he is, he clearly doesn’t understand their importance.

by kcbottom9th on May 5, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

I really don't think Moore gets into those things

And by that I mean that he doesn’t look at those stats, nor does he have anyone who brings them to him.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 10:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Do you really think he knows anything about that?

I doubt he has ever considered looking at GB or LD rates, much less looked into how reliable they are at the minor league level.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 11:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

now you're talking crazy....

you cant really believe that? he’s not deep into stats…but someone is talking to him about these things

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 12:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Certainly we don't know

But I’d like to see any evidence that he’s familiar with these stats and uses them at all. I’d like for him to ever quote a stat beyond BA, HR, RBI, ERA or Saves. Certainly his actions provide evidence that he’s not looking beyond these ultra-old school stats.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 1:54 AM EDT up reply actions  

Sickels interview with GMDM

MOORE: Kila is a smart kid. He works hard. We think that what we saw in the last three weeks of the season from him is what he’s capable of. We think he can hit .240-.260, hit 20-25 homers, .370 OBP. It will be a nice problem fitting all these guys in the lineup.

http://www.royalsreview.com/2011/2/28/2020149/sickels-interviews-gmdm

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 2:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yes, he's talked about the importance of OBP from day one (though not really getting it)

So yeah, he’s willing to talk about OBP and “slug”. Don’t think I’ve heard him mention anything more advanced than that.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 2:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

i know a couple of gms publicly talk about other stats

Epstein is the most obvious example…he railed on a talk show guy about JD Drew using advanced stats to prove that he’s been worth every dollar he’s been paid

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 6, 2011 2:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

they're not GMDM tho

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on May 6, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions  

I don't expect the fans supporting this to quit on him at all no matter the struggles

until next season. He’s a rookie and the team won’t be in contention, those numbers have zero meaning right now.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 11:06 PM EDT up reply actions  

What if he puts up Belt (or Kila) like numbers.

Belt this season:

.192/.300/.269

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 11:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Maybe if it's still like that at the ASB,

until then I’m saying he gets a free pass.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on May 5, 2011 11:15 PM EDT up reply actions  

Overflow?

I am going to tackle the Super 2 implications tomorrow.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 10:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

can i ask a favor of scott, will, and anyone else?

I’ve done my best to read all the comments and arguments and I’m just trying to get a grip on everyone’s opinions.
Scott and anyone else, could u just give me a few sentence summary of your opinion and reasoning?
I know its late and beating a dead horse but im just curious and overwhelmed by all the comments. I have an idea how I feel just haven’t had much time to analyze.

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 10:58 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

rec'ed

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 11:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

but keep the shades

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on May 5, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

F YOU!

I’m going commando.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 11:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'll give you my ultra-short version

This team doesn’t look to me like it is likely to win 75 games, much less be in contention, with or without Hosmer. So calling Hosmer up this year wastes a season of service time. Calling him up now means he’s under team control through 2017. Waiting until mid-April 2012 means he’d be under team control through 2018. I think it is an extremely bad decision to trade 2018 (which might be a contending year, who knows) for 2011 (a rebuilding year where the team isn’t likely to even sniff .500).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 5, 2011 11:01 PM EDT up reply actions  

fair enough

He definitely seems to have been rushed.. that babi.p and gb rate are alarming. The team better stay in contention all year.

But I gotta admit I’m really excited, ill be out there tomorrow watching him

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 11:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

My opinion

While calling him up in May of 2011 is not the best decision in the world, I don’t think holding out until April of 2012 is the decision either.

After the Super-2 date in June would have been my desired approach, in context of whether or not Kila had stepped up his game or not. If KK had turned it around, then I think it would have been reasonable to hold him until his service year date next season.

Alas, we’ll never know.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

I am trying to wrap my head around it myself, that is why I went and looked at his stats

1. Hosmer has been lucky in AAA. >0.500 BABIP is unsustainable, especially with a 19% LD rate. I think he should have stayed down until he put up more reasonable numbers. I really have no problems with him coming up now.

2. Super 2 status is probably a mute issue because of a new collective bargaining agreement.

3. Kila has been screwed with sand paper for 2.5 years now.

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 11:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kila screwed himself with his inability to hit big league pitching

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 11:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

Neither could Mike Jacobs, Jose Guillen and Willie Bloomquist

who have all DH or played 1B in that time frame

- .-. ..- … – / – …. . / .—. .-. - .. . … …

by Jeff Zimmerman on May 5, 2011 11:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

none of those guys are here either.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 11:14 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's not the point

how much of a chance did those guys get?

that’s the point.

by Fernando Vina School of Linguistics on May 6, 2011 1:48 AM EDT up reply actions  

So now we can add his name to that list.

I imagine GMDM’s phone is ringing off the hook tonight in trade offers for Kila. You know he obviously has just made another big mistake.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:16 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah

The Hiroshima Carp, the Chiba Lotte Marines and most of the Mexican League.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 11:18 PM EDT up reply actions  

I was thinking Wieters from Baltimore

A young catcher that we need. Showalter got to see Kila up close and must know he has to have him. Give him 2 years of seasoning and he will be a .220 hitter with 8 HR’s. That will get him over the hump to contend with NY, Bosox, TB and Tor.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

couldnt agree more about kila

I really feel for the guy.

And hosmer better get his ld rate up and gb rate down or were gonna have a big problem on our hands when he struggles

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 11:10 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

My wife feels sorry for me screaming at the screen watching him helplessly flail at breaking balls out of the strike zone

I’m as much of a homer as anybody but on what I think is his third time around with the big leagues he still shows no sign of improvement. You take advantage of your chances no matter when they occur. Its all on him.

I'm trying hard but some of this sabermetrics stuff sounds madeup.

by stram#1 on May 5, 2011 11:25 PM EDT up reply actions  

The crazy thing is...

I don’t even have a strong objection to this move. I have a mild objection.

I think this is an overeaction to the combination of Kila’s slump and Hosmer hitting .500 on a bunch of GBs in AAA. And because the team is in it, bam, move made.

For all Moore lectures about the process, I rarely see any long term plan. Just random, reactionary moves.

by Freneau on May 5, 2011 11:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

i agree. its just the royals luck that kila would suck

If he was contributing I don’t think this move is made. He couldn’t have struggled at a worse time.
And I would love to hear the convos Moore had with his baseball men. U would think someone could come up with a persuasive argument against the move… many on here already have.
I don’t see a problem with mixing betemit in at 1b to get production while letting kila figure it out.

It really was the perfect storm

by LimaTime10 on May 5, 2011 11:52 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Lets say he didn't suck. What was he really going to do for us.

Trade bait. Buy Service time for Hosmer. Some stated they were going use Mooses service time this year. However Hosmer moved ahead of him. I think when you mix all the service time together in the long this move becomes a wash.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly

I really hope we don’t see Moose until the middle of next season. Between Betemit and Aviles I think the Royals have pretty reasonable options at 3B. The important thing is to make sure we don’t lose large chunks of talent in the same season to free agency.

by Pointed Stick on May 6, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

My stance:

July.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on May 5, 2011 11:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

april 2012 was clearly the best move....

i dont find that to be realistic though…i dont think any GMs in this situation wouldve done that. If they are going to call him up this year, whether its now, June or September…this is the best time. They decided to ignore the extra few million this will cost them down the road. That is a very good sign in my mind.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on May 5, 2011 11:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

So this ONE of the prospects we are counting on

And, taken along with the fact that there was a definite opportunity to move him up, and that there were probably some business and ‘fan satisfaction’ reasons involved, and that at this point we look ok, I’m not all that disturbed at the move. Dayton is still ok for this year with me. Now, if he managed to get a contract done on this, I think it’s a great move…

What will really piss me off though, is if this is just the start of things, and he jumps four more guys up cause he thinks we’ll contend. That would be going right back to GMDM dumbassery.

Honestly, at this point, it might not hurt Moose to stay in AAA all year, and in that case we’d be trading one year of Hos for another year of Moose, and I’d be on board with that.

by Prime2U on May 5, 2011 11:19 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

This is a point I'd like to see Scott's reaction to

We all expected that at least one of the hitting prospects would come up this year. If it’s Hos instead of Moose, have we lost anything?

"I think a tactical error might have been committed by the manager of the Royals"

by KSinDC on May 6, 2011 1:47 AM EDT up reply actions  

Given everything, it looks to me like it was one more than it should have been

I’ve written an article for beyondtheboxscore.com which should be up about 10 EDT Friday morning about it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on May 6, 2011 1:58 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good article

But I think it’s a good idea to stagger their promotions. It also stagers when we lose them to free agency. I’ll feel your pain if they call up Moose as well.

by Pointed Stick on May 6, 2011 11:14 AM EDT up reply actions  

my head hurts reading these comments

When you’re a team like the royals, you have to be aware of all arb/contract year scenarios because you won’t have the money to resign many to the 2nd contract. Damon, beltran, etc.

The guy who said all curent gm’s are better than anyone who is not a gm is crazy. Has he never worked before. Has everywhere he’s ever worked had the top top top person in every job? If so why do we see such turnover? People get hired many times because of right place and right time. with whatever you’re doing, whatever your job is, there are hundreds of people who could do it better. (And you’re probably better than hundreds with better jobs) HR and the hiring process is not an exact science.

a long fly ball to deep center field, back goes Damon to the track, the wall, and Gone!

by tcon125 on May 5, 2011 11:40 PM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Damon and Dye didn't want to sign here

Beltran was willing, and we stiffed him over a couple of million dollars. Different era, different attitude.

Although I will say that arb/contract scenarios should be in the thought process, perhaps even prominently.

Vi veri veniversum vivus vici

by JKWard on May 5, 2011 11:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

I just want a competitive team for just at least one year after all these years of pain.

Hopefully several years. However I am not going to get all worked up like some over how we are going to be in 2018. I can just imagine some sitting onthe couch watching the 2015 WS with the Royals miserable because the team is going to be bad in 2018. GMDM screwed us in 2011.

by Iowa Royal on May 5, 2011 11:52 PM EDT up reply actions  

Are you talking about my post?

If so, I was being sarcastic. Thought that was so obvious I didn’t even need the sarc font.

I said this:

Dayton is GM
Dayton, ipso facto, has knowledge superior to that of any other non-GM in America.

Overgay is Destiny

by DCRoyals on May 6, 2011 1:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

oh my bad

Haha dcroyal, there were so many other people saying all kinds of things that normally i’d assume to be sarc…but they meant it.

I didn’t read who posted your specific comment. But others seemed to be serious.

a long fly ball to deep center field, back goes Damon to the track, the wall, and Gone!

by tcon125 on May 6, 2011 7:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Our current problems have little to do with 1B/3B/DH

With Butler, Betemit and Aviles, were not the top in the league, but it’s certainly not a priority. Maybe they think he is really, really ready.

IMO, from biggest problems to biggest strength:
1. Starting Ptiching (Teaford, Teaford, Teaford!)
2. SS/2B
3. C
4. 1B/3B/DH
5. OF
6. Bullpen

I think 1B is way down the list, but maybe they see something I don’t. Maybe they felt there was nothing left for him to prove or develop in his swing/defense. Hard to believe at his age, but Robin Yount was only 18 though, so it’s happened before.

by JamesD8 on May 6, 2011 1:02 AM EDT reply actions  

I like it

some royals buzz is never bad. he may struggle a bit, but he forced the royals to make this move. well kila helped a bit, although i thought they should have given him another month atleast to get it going. but who knows, he may keep tearing it up in the show. congrats hos

i would like to have a photographic memory, but it never developed

by beltran42 on May 6, 2011 1:08 AM EDT reply actions  

two interesting points.

point one.

there are two sorts of numbers that show it’s going to be hard for us to contend.

first, our adjusted record (opposing team strength, run components, etc.) is about 15-16.
see http://www.baseballprospectus.com/standings/

second, some players are probably above their heads. gordo, chen, le franceour, etc. these folks are playing considerably above their past performance.

i think an optimistic fan can easily blow past the second point, claiming that players have made adjustments, found their stride, etc. i’m not saying it’s likely, but it’s at least somewhat reasonable, since individual players are hard to predict, and people go from 0 to 60 (and 60 to 0) all the time. changes happen, and if you have a narrative for why you think the change will stick, you’re entitled to argue it, since zips predictions have a pretty low R value.

what’s harder to get past is the first problem. we’ve been a bit blessed so far, schedule-wise. that’s why our 17-14 record is actually closer, when you adjust for pythag and opposing teams, to 15-16. to be optimistic enough to think we can contend, we have to think that, not only have individual players all made good adjustments, but that they’ll get EVEN BETTER as we play better teams, to maintain our record on a contending trajectory.

i’m not saying that’s impossible. i certainly think it can happen. it’s just going to be tough, and the numbers don’t suggest you should give even odds on it. I really don’t like NYRoyal’s certainty on this score: he keeps saying with a great deal of assurance that this season is lost. i think he speaks a bit aggressively. but the numbers are a bit on his side. of course, the reason we actually play the game outdoors is because the numbers are just guesstimates, and, again, most predictive systems in baseball have very low R.

point two.

i don’t think 2018 matters very much for the hosmer debate. this is just a basic time-value-of-money argument. the value of a year in 2018, if you assume a 5% interest rate or so (that’s what fangraphs uses for FA comp appreciation, and it probably can be applied more generally to a lot of baseball values), is pretty seriously discounted—i don’t have a calculator, but it must be something like about a 30-35% discount. and i think that seriously understates the discount, since unlike a steady appreciation of money, lots of things shift in baseball to make future plans even less certain. hosmer gets injured and never really recovers (like pronk), we have a new quick rising 1B who’ll be almost as good, in 2016 we have a huge glut of decent but not hosmeresque people at 1B/DH, and we trade hosmer for needed parts elsewhere, we get a new deep-pockets owner, we utterly collapse so a good hosmer 2018 season is completely irrelevant, we win three WS and do a marlins-style firesale in 2017 to enter perennial rebuilding mode, etc.

a GM should certainly have an eye on things that far out, but they get a massive discount because of interest and uncertainty.

these two points appear to cut against each other, but i think when you add in possible financial advantages of bringing in hosmer (tickets, jerseys, fan interest) and good relations with minor leaguers, and the idea that giving up 2018-discounted hosmer will marginally help the 2011 team stay on a playoff trajectory (or get above 500, which itself will generate a lot of interest), i think it is a VERY reasonable position to support GMDM’s move. i have no problem with people who support it.

i personally don’t. i am still a big kila fan. (i think RR’s comments about kila haters was a bit weird: people were frustrated with kila recently, but hasn’t he always been a bit of a fan and commenter favorite?) i personally would have given him at least 100 more PA, and then considered calling up hos after the next clock deadline for arb near the ASB.

interestingly, i think the least plausible position is NYRoyals’—waiting until mid-april of next year. i’m not saying it’s unreasonable, just that it seems to take 2018 too seriously, and doesn’t get hos adjusted to the big show fast enough for possible 2012 contention, where i think he should be used as a sort of spearhead for gradually bringing up new talent. but his position is fine, too.

overall, i think this discussion could have used a lot less heat, and a bit less certainty. it’s a complex balancing situation that GMDM did. i’m just excited to see hos, and it’s nice to see a winning record, and that we are #9 (top third!!!!!) of baseball prospectus’s fairly objective power rankings. (even if cleveland is #2—man, they are playing spectacularly, and they look really good: what horrible luck for the royals to be playing well, and for the injuns to choose this year to trump us.)

by Paris_of_the_Plains on May 6, 2011 5:25 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

upcoming schedule: BP hitlist comparisons

so i see above that i said we were in the top third of the Baseball Prospectus hitlist—i hadn’t looked closely, and it turns out they do 1-14 for AL, and 1-16 for NL. so we’re actually low/kinda middle of the pack. sigh.

let’s say the teams kept playing along their current BP hitlist lines. see
http://bbp.cx/team_audit.php
the baseball prospectus hitlist tries to be as objective as possible, using pythag, schedule adjustments, run components, etc.

let’s also say we get a two ranking bump from being at home, and a two ranking drop away. (with the way we’ve been playing away, it might be ten…) so, if we are more than two better than team X playing away, my stupid hitlist analysis says we should win (+) rather than lose (-). = means tie. as you can see below, it’s not a particularly positive schedule coming up.

= OAK
- @NYY
= @DET
- CLE
- TEX
- STL
+ @BAL
- @TEX
- LAA
+ MIN
+ TOR

That’s 6 – and only 3 +.

interestingly, this stupid analysis does very well going back in time (taking the current hitllist rankings), with the exception of our surprise 3-1 series against the angels. So even if you think the royals should be #9 in the BP power rankings, it’s looking like a tough schedule ahead.

we do have the advantage that MIN, DET, and CWS are all playing objectively quite badly right now—14, 11, 13, respectively. we’ll be fairly lucky to be 500 on June 9th. here’s hoping. if the bubonic plague takes down cleveland, this method suggests we are shoe-ins for the playoffs, and we’ll be crushed in the first round. you can take it to the bank.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on May 6, 2011 6:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I don't quite understand

How people can say on the one hand, that our schedule is really easy so far, and on the other hand, that the rest of the division is going to be way better than us. Most of our season so far has BEEN the test of the division. Those easy teams on that schedule have been the very teams we’re competing with. I’ll give you the Mariners as easy, but the Rangers definitely weren’t. Some people claim the Angels are an easy team this year, but it looks to me like they have a shot at the wildcard

by Prime2U on May 6, 2011 11:34 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

I don't quite understand

How people can say on the one hand, that our schedule is really easy so far, and on the other hand, that the rest of the division is going to be way better than us. Most of our season so far has BEEN the test of the division. Those easy teams on that schedule have been the very teams we’re competing with. I’ll give you the Mariners as easy, but the Rangers definitely weren’t. Some people claim the Angels are an easy team this year, but it looks to me like they have a shot at the wildcard. Meanwhile, we’ve been rolling on our division. Detroit looks to be the best of the teams we expected to kill us in league, and we beat them in Detroit, so there goes the whole ‘wait till we play them on the road’ theory. Really, so far, the Indians are the only team that looks that tough in our division, and they aren’t just beating us, but everyone else too. I think that, based on past performance, Det Chi and Minn are getting too much credit. I also think that it’s a toss- up whether the Indians keep playing like this or the Royals do. I’ll put my fan blinders on and call the Royals maintaining pace better than the IndiAns on this one.

All that being said, I’m guessing that Detroit will take the Central this year, but we have a really good shot at finishing second and being close enough to keep it interesting all season. And that a hell of a move up from the last several years.

by Prime2U on May 6, 2011 11:44 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

It has been easy

And we are only 9-8 against the AL Central.

Does that bode well for when Chicago, Minnesota and Detroit inevitably get their shit together to at least some degree?

by kcbottom9th on May 6, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions  

9-8 against the central

And are 5 or 6 of those losses to the Indians, the team that was supposed to male this part of our schedule so easy?

by Prime2U on May 6, 2011 12:23 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

minnesota actually might be.

they really have played unbelievably poorly. their peripherals are, if anything, far worse than their 300 winning percentage. their third order wins actually put them close to 200—historically bad. they don’t just need to pick up the pace and get back on track: they have to fundamentally change every way they’ve played ball in the last 40 days.

people say it’s too early to count them out of the playoffs, but this year, minnesota actually might be really dead.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on May 6, 2011 5:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Comments For This Post Are Closed


User Tools

Welcome to the SB Nation blog about Kansas City Royals.

FanPosts

Community blog posts and discussion.

Recommended FanPosts

Royalsretro_small
Would Royals Review Make Better Decisions Than Dayton Moore?
Funny-tattoos-hey-look-they-found-a-royals-fan_small
Mitch On the Bench
Royalsretro_small
Happy Mother's Day From Royals Review

Recent FanPosts

Dignan_small
Friday Game 43 Open Thread
Funny-tattoos-hey-look-they-found-a-royals-fan_small
MORE Mitch on the Bench
Sexy-beast-original_small
OT Friday: The generic boilerplate template desert island gambit
Tumblr_lwfiy4qkgv1r204zxo1_500_small
RR Poetry Contest
Small
Extrapolating the First 43 Games over the Full Season
Small
Is Dave Eiland doing ... anything?
Small
Alcides Escobar's Bat
Download_small
Was Dayton Moore Right on Bruce Chen?
Chalmers2_small
2012 Royals vs 2012 Ex-Royals

+ New FanPost All FanPosts >

Yahoo_full_count

Managers

Cimg0036_small Freneau

Editors

Dayton_small Jeff Zimmerman

Authors

Royalsretro_small RoyalsRetro

Headshot_small Old Man Duggan