Following the Royals Top Prospects: 6/17-6/23
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 1:24 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals Minor Leagues
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The short season is under way, with the Idaho Falls Chukars and Burlington Royals starting games this past week. There are not a ton of interesting prospects in Rookie Ball, but I play on writing about Robinson Yambati once he starts throwing more innings. I may mention someone if they are performing well (Last year's third-round pick Michael Antonio is off to a hot start for the Chukars) but in general, I don't see a lot of future contributors on those teams.
Triple-A: The Storm Chasers went 4-4 last night, with future Nippon-Ham Fighter great Vin Mazzaro picking up the win Thursday night. Omaha wraps up their series against the Nashville Sounds Friday night
Mike Montgomery (5.82/4.79/1.51) - Montgomery was absolutely crushed on Sunday, allowing nine runs on ten hits in just three innings. Monty allowed four home-runs, and only struck out one batter. I try my best not to panic about prospects, but Montgomery isn't making this easy. He is only 22 years old in AAA, so he may just need more time. At this rate, I don't imagine we will see him this year unless he figures things out quickly.
Johnny Giavotella (.319/.375/.440) - Giavotella collected 14 hits this week, including three doubles. All though the PCL has been a crazy hitters league this season, it is still nice to see Gio's numbers pick up. Old Man Duggan, however, has not been impressed with his glove this season.
Lorenzo Cain (.308/.370/.520) - Cain had ten hits in eight games this week. Lorenzo legged out two triples, and cracked his eighth homer of the season. The slugging north of .500 shocks me every time I look at it.
David Lough (.308/.349/.476) - Lough had six hits in five games played this week, but he hasn't played in a game since Wednesday. I think I read that he was removed for a minor injury, but I couldn't find a link about it. Three of Lough's hits went for extra bases, including one triple.
Clint Robinson (.345/.420/.599) - Robinson smacked eight hits this week, including two doubles. If only Robinson was left-handed, I would jump aboard the "Trade Billy" bandwagon as quick as some of our commentors have.
Double-A: The Naturals went 4-3 this week, winning their series against the Tulsa Drillers. They start a four-game series against the Arkansas Travelers Friday night.
Wil Myers (.295/.366/.418) - Myers had seven hits this week, two of which were doubles. Wil has struggled hitting away from Arvest Ballpark this season, only sporting a .204/.245/.367 triple slash line on the road.
John Lamb - Disabled List
Christopher Dwyer (5.76/4.17/.95) - Dwyer posted his second strong start in a row, scattering six hits across five innings while only allowing one run. The left-hander struck out three, but also walked three. His LOB% looks like it is starting to normalize, so hopefully his overall numbers improve as a result. He still, however, needs to cut down on the walks.
Christian Colon (.260/.341/.343) - Colon collected eight hits this week, including one double and one home run. Colon's numbers have been way better in June, and he is still walking at a higher pace than he did last season. I think the shortstop was slumping/adjusting at the beginning of the season, and it appears that he has figured things out.
Salvador Perez (.267/.314/.377) - Perez picked up seven hits this week, including his fourth home-run of the season. Our catchers at the MLB level are so bad at framing pitches, and the video off have seen of Perez indicates he is good at it. That makes me a little more excited for him.
Derrick Robinson (.249/.337/.287) - Robinson only had four hits this week, and is hitting a terrible .222/.308/.259 in June. I wonder if Robinson is still bothered by his injury, because he has struggled since returning. Righties have also given the switch-hitter problems this season, he is only hitting .211/.297/.268 against them.
Will Smith (4.58/4.53/1.38) Smith made two starts this week. In his first start, Wil allowed five runs (two earned) on eight hits in 5.2 innings pitched. In his second start, Smith allowed two runs on five hits in six innings of work. In both of his starts, the southpaw struck out three batters and walked one.
High-A: Wilmington was 4-2 the past week, playing five of those games against the Winston-Salem Dash. The Blue Rocks continue their series against the Lynchburg Hillcats tonight
Timothy Melville (4.50/3.50/1.20) Melville threw 5.1 innings Thursday night, giving up two runs and seven hits. The Pride of Wentzille, Missouri only walked one batter and struck out five. It was Melville's third straight start in a row allowing two earned runs or less.
Jacob Odorizzi (2.71/1.89/.77) Odorizzi had a strong start Friday, allowing two unearned runs in 5.2 innings. Jake gave up four hits and two walks, but fanned 11 batters. The right-hander has an interesting reverse split; lefties are hitting just .197 against Odorizzi, while righties are hitting .266.
Noel Arguelles (2.53/3.39/.77) Arguelles pitched to one batter on Friday, recording an out before being removed. He ended up pitching four innings in the suspended game, giving up no runs and two hits while striking out five. Noel will pitch tonight for the Blue Rocks.
Low-A: The Cougars only played three games this week because of the MWL All-Star Game, going 1-2 against the Clinton LumberKings. Kane County resumes play against the Peoria Chiefs tonight.
Cheslor Cuthbert (.289/.350/.467) - Cuthbert went 2-7 this week, hitting two singles and also reaching base with one walk.
Brett Eibner (.132/.214/.211) Eibner went 1-9 this past week, collecting one single and one walk. Eibner's hit on Saturday was his first hit at home this season
Yordano Ventura (4.40/4.02/1.29) - Ventura had an up-and-down start Saturday, allowing four runs on five hits in 5.2 innings. The righty struck out two batters, but walked three.
Jason Adam (4.26/4.43/.97) - Adam was effective Sunday, giving up one run on two hits in five innings of work. Jason struck out five batters, and only walked one. The right-hander appears to be having problems elevating the ball; he has allowed six home runs in his past four starts.
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Damn that picture indeed
But when it’s posted under the headline “Following the Royals Top Prospects” you gotta admit it’s pretty damn funny.
Chiefs Might
by chicks_love_chiefs on Jun 24, 2011 1:39 PM EDT up reply actions
and mentoring
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jun 24, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Trade Melky NOW
I’m not sure of his service time numbers (and am too lazy/busy to look it up), but is there any gaming to be done with Cain’s callup? Even if so, then doesn’t his advanced age make it almost a moot point?
Yeah
Moore wants to ruin him as a prospect like they did with Kila. I think Moore’s going to wait until Cain’s OBP is close to .500 and he’s leading the entire minor leagues in HR’s and RBI’s before ruining his career
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 2:13 PM EDT up reply actions
for fucks sake...can we quit blaming for for kilas lack of hitting/fielding ability?
or at least wait until he succeeds elsewhere before blasting moore for it. we have better current/future 1b and DHs…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we figure out a way to blame Yost?
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jun 24, 2011 3:07 PM EDT up reply actions
so who should we blame?
Still blaming Baird?
How long before Dayton gets held accountable? 20 years? 50? Please tell us.
Vin Mazzaro is good!
start with kila for sucking
think things through, and go on from there.
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Jun 24, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh okay so you are saying Hosmer sucks too then? because Hosmer stats = Kila's MLB stats
Because in Kila’s first 43 games he has the same OPS that Hsomer has had in his career – .720. Didnt’ realize Hosmer’s was that low did you?
Kila slumped this year – that’s all in 20 games. He should be give a FULL YEAR to perform just like Butler was given time to develop. Butler was sent down after struggling but always got subsequent call up to the majors. Kila, nah he’s not one of Dayton’s guys! Back to minor league purgatory
Oh look Kila is back to his .900 OPS again in Ohmaha, 45 POINTS HIGHER THAN MOOSES THIS YEAR, but he will still never get a chance.
The truth hurts doesn’t it.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
see my comment below
and it would be a good step to avoid sounding ridiculous if you can. i’m embarrassed for you.
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Jun 24, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
Uh no not really
Its not about being ridiculous, which I’m not I’m making a discussion. Its not crazy to think and most people would agree Kila wasn’t given a fair chance by DM over the past couple of years, considering he’s had a much longer sample size and completely outhit Moose in AAA, but Moose is supposedly up in KC for the rest of the season.
Age is irrelevant. Worth was 28 when he was finally given a chance to play full-time in PHI. So its great that Hosmer is a phenom that has cracked the lineup in KC, but its not comparing the two which is my point here; its giving Kila a fair shot to maximize he value and he hasn’t been given that chance. You have to blame Moore. And its not a joke if Kila becomes a good MLB for another team. Kila was raking when Moore decided to take Hosmer in the draft. But I know you don’t select for need and its just an unfortunate consequence
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
this isnt a comparison
“Because in Kila’s first 43 games he has the same OPS that Hsomer has had in his career – .720. Didnt’ realize Hosmer’s was that low did you?
its not only a comparison, its a comparison using made up statistics.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok
So rounding down from .729 to .720 is making shit up? (Hosmer’s exact numbers)
And rounding from .712 to .720 is making shit up? (Kila’s exact numbers)
Its called stretching not making shit up.
Saying Kila’s OBP was .450 in KC is making shit up
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:50 PM EDT up reply actions
why wouldnt you just use their real numbers rather than making them up?
oh, b/c it wouldnt support your argument….and why would you only use a small portion of kilas games?
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
and using non adjusted OPS is dumb...
a 720 OPS in 2008 and a 720 in 2011 is a far different thing
hosmers wRC+ is 98
kilas wRC+ is 83
thats a state that properly values OBP/SLG and adjusts for the run scoring environment…they’re not even close…and kila is at the age where hitters peak.
i swear to god, i’ll apologize to you for being wrong as soon as kila becomes a productive major league player
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Well its 2010 kila vs 2011 hosmer
Kila only had 20 AB’s in 2008 and was never in KC in 09
You might be right I’m trying to be optimistic with him…wish I could say the same about Moore
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Should have waited a day
Hosmer’s OPS is exactly .710
no revision necessary
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 25, 2011 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions
thatd be interesting and still pretty irrelevant if it were true...
but hosmer has hit significantly better than kila did this year and kila did in his career…and he’s 21 vs 27
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
It wasn't Kila's first 43 games that made people think he wasn't very good. It was the next 44 where he OPS'd about .630
Plus, you’re failing to correct for offense being down across the board this year. Hosmer is above league average with his OPS of .729 this year, but Kila would have been below average with the same level in 2008-10.
Has OPS dwindled that much this year
that a .729 is above average this year and a .701 is below in 2010 (not 08-10)?
And we should wait, because its only a matter of time before Hosmer is below .700 for the year.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes.
AL OPS
2011 .716
2010 .734
2009 .764
2008 .756
You should make your prediction your signature
Haha seriously
Its funny how people here LOVE to defend Moore…when the truth is he just sucks
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:40 PM EDT up reply actions
NO!
Why doesn’t he get an entire year to prove himself? He was a top 5 hitting prospect in all of baseball that year but we have Mike Jacobs of all screw ups holding him up. It was a waste
Moore screwed it up. He didn’t HAVE to draft Hosmer, who I like, but who is mightily struggling. Kia got totally fucked by Moore. How can you look at it any other way?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions
do you ever wonder why absolutely 0 people want to trade for kila, or at least inquire? is that curious to you?
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Jun 24, 2011 4:39 PM EDT up reply actions
First of all neither of us know that
The only thing we BOTH know is Kila has proven he can dominate AAA but hasn’t been given enough time to demonstrate whether he can be a quality MLB player.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
there is enough
attention devoted to trade rumors and baseball rumors generally to where we would have almost certainly heard SOMETHING. and if Kila doesn’t have a future in KC, then why wouldn’t DM trade him? do you honestly think other teams are offering trades, but DM just obstinately refuses to do so?
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Jun 24, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions
He hasn't performed well in KC so he has no market
How can you trade him. If Moore was wise he would wait until Hosmer slumped below .700 OPS and then swap him for Kila after his OPS is over .900. Hosmer is going to be a very good baseball player and the demotion shouldn’t affect him, and the experience would serve him and KC well. Even in terms of service time it would be wise to send Hosmer dow, save an extra year of arbitration and then play Kila the rest of the year. If he sucks then yes you are right, he’s garbage and just cut him. But if he performs….Butler can be traded for a starting pitching prospect.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:52 PM EDT up reply actions
do you really
think that scouts never visit AAA stadiums?
and, based on your logic, hosmer hasn’t performed well in KC either. do you think that nobody would trade for him, based on his experience in KC?
by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Jun 24, 2011 4:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Hosmer is a 21 year old phenom
I think we both know the answer to that question. Maybe the Royals are getting weak offers or none at all you might be right. Perhaps the Royals are reluctant to let go of him.
But it should blatantly clear Kila would bring back something in the offseason if he the next 90 games to prove he can play
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 5:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Remember swapped them erroneously because the Royals were in first place!
LOL remember those days? Now there is no reason to sabotage your own prospect. Kila may not have been this top rated prospect but he was dominant for a longer period of time than Moose and Hosmer.
Do you not remember the .456 OBP, 37 HR’s, 104 BB’s, 67 SO’s and 1.085 OPS?
I’ve never seen a fanbase ostensibly believe in the hype of its farm system to such an extent meanwhile so critical of the one prospect who has performed the best for the longest period of time
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions
find me the prospect list that had kila as a top 5 prospect in the organization, let alone all of baseball
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 5:36 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a top 10 prospect on a list for the Royals
http://royalrevival.blogspot.com/2010/02/top-prospects-10-kila-kaaihue.html
But he was a top 5 PERFORMING prospect in minor league baseball. Or were there 5 hitters better than a 1.085 OPS, .456 OBP, 37 HR’s and 104 BB’s/67 SO’s for a FULL season?
I said prospect as in his actual performance not his ranking on list…sorry should have clarified.
Its just sad there is such a negative tone about Kila when he was KC’s golden child a few years ago. All everyone would talk about is, “Kila Now!” and now it’s, “Oh that guy sucks whatever” You guys could care less if he was cut when if given a full year I think he could improve and hit .750 OPS, maybe better
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:31 PM EDT up reply actions
he was never my golden child...
ive said it all along…he wouldnt perform and he still wont perform….
statistics arent even the most important thing when looking at prospects…its scouting reports, age relative to league and the statistics in that context
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:46 PM EDT up reply actions
I'll have to give you props then
Because I was driving that bandwagon like a drunken mess 3X over the legal limit lol and more than half of RR was jumping on for a ride
Wouldn’t you still want to see him perform so we can get something in return or you just don’t care and would rather not mess with Hosmer? I already know your feelings on Butler so…
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:52 PM EDT up reply actions
he's not going to perform...
he probably shouldve been the starter from about may of last year on…but before that, he hadnt earned a spot. he was meh in AAA in 2009. He tore it up from the beginning last year and shouldve been getting ABs instead of Jogui…but it wont end up mattering…kila wasnt going to perform then and he wont perform in the future. He’s not ever going to have value. Most teams have big hitting, older 1b in AAA waiting for a shot…nobody is going to give anything up for kila
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
By holding him past the beginning of June, they gained an extra year of service
If they held him until the beginning of August, they’d avoid Super Two status
Cain still strikes out a ton for someone who isn't supposed to have a lot of power
so it’s not like he doesn’t have things to work on in AAA. I’m fairly confident Moore will trade Melky when he gets a half-decent offer, so I think we will see Cain soon enough. I’m not too worried about it, Melky actually has been fairly good for the Royals this season
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 3:00 PM EDT up reply actions
but at least he has a good walk rate!
I think the PCL average is like 2%
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 24, 2011 3:03 PM EDT up reply actions
That league has been really bizarre this season
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 3:06 PM EDT up reply actions
Sort of
I was being saracastic about the league averagse/Cain’s walk rate..
But yeah, the PCL is usually a hitters league though, right?
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
by Matt Klaassen on Jun 24, 2011 3:09 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah, but I didn't think it was this exaggerated.
It must be Mike Jacobs, he’s skewing the data
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 3:18 PM EDT up reply actions
PCL ERA by year
2011: 5.11
2010: 4.78
2009: 4.50
2008: 4.84
2007: 4.68
2006: 4.35
2005: 4.83
For whatever reason, offense is way up this year
The loss of the very pitcher friendly Portland park might explain part of it
The net effect of team shuffling the last two years is losing Portland and adding high altitude Reno.
Interesting points
This source is showing Reno as a league average park, but I guess that’s league average in the elevated run environment?
http://www.statcorner.com/team.php?team=REN&year=2011&leag=PCL
yup, plus it is only one year of data
Portland’s last park factor was 89/92 wOBA.
Nevermind, so your other comment.
Still, Cain’s walk rate last year between AA and AAA was 12%. Then again, it looks like it’s been all over the place in his minor league career.
You guys would rather trade Melky
than Francour? Or do you think Francour sucks too much to be traded?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Is it bad that,
among the position prospects, I have a guy in Low A rated #3?
Personally, except for Cain and Myers, I think I am more excited about Cuthbert than any other hitting prospect. (Continuing concerns about Giavotella’s defense make me very leary of him as a prospect)
"We're gonna win with pitching and defense" General Manager Dayton Moore, circa winter 2009
"Where did all these Indians come from?" General George Armstrong Custer, circa summer 1876
Cuthbert has been rising this season
and depending on who still qualifies as a propsect after this offseason, Cheslor may be a top-five, definitely top ten prospect in our system. We probably won’t see him for a long time, but there is no reason to not be excited about him
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He's probably better than Dan Uggla.
No, he won’t have that power, but if he hits I can tolerate it.
“Our catchers at the MLB level are so bad at framing pitches . . . Perez . . . is good at it.”
The framing issue is huge. Yes, I know that the pitchers are part of the problem, but the catchers slapping the ball out of the strike zone, giving the appearance of a ball, is inexcusable.
As a former catcher, it drives me crazy.
Framing doesn’t necessarily help you get the original borderline call, but it can help you get similar ones later down the road. And our pitchers need any help they can get
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 3:05 PM EDT up reply actions
Where's Kila?
I know he may not deserve to be on the list, d/t advanced age, poor performance in the majors, too high of an OBP, etc., but he did go 12-29 (.414) with 3 2B, 2 HR and 6 RBI this last week.
I could add him to the list
but I don’t see him playing for the Royals ever again. I don’t see Robinson playing for the Royals either, but he still is technically a prospect because he has not played in the majors. Kila has hit well since returning to AAA, but we already knew he could hit AAA pitching
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 4:06 PM EDT up reply actions
All agreed.
I want him to up his trade value (if he has anything after his MLB showing this year), so that is why I’m just curious. I also am interested to see how players bounce back from demotion.
OT: For whatever it is worth, Frenchy’s last 95 plate appearances are close to the 96 PA Kila had to start the year.
Frenchy: .209/.242/.291
Kila: .195/.295/.317
Nice
Demote Francour. he’s not even worth a nickname he’s so horrible
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 5:07 PM EDT up reply actions
good defense in RF vs poor defense at 1b makes up a huge difference in their values over that time period....
and we dont have a viable replacement for frenchy like we did kila
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 5:39 PM EDT up reply actions
I generally agree.
Francouer is playing good D in RF and I’m not advocating that Frenchy should be demoted. As I’ve noted before, I think the argument about Kila’s defense was more lumped in with his sputtering offense. Obviously, Hosmer is a vastly superior all-around player.
I’m more focused on the near, mob-like rage against Kila this year (based on a small sample size) versus the almost unconditional love that Frenchy gets based on what he did to start the season. At least Yost finally moved him out of the clean-up spot.
The moral: Kila should have smiled more than once.
Wouldn't Mitch have defense close to Francour, he had a + UZR in CF
What about about Dejesus (oh I forgot we got the best pitcher in baseball back for him) forget it Great trade Moore
I could care less about Kila’s defense he’s not a 1b he’s a DH. We have Hosmer as a first baseman dont’ we? Or what if we put Butler at first base? Why is Kila exclusively a first baseman and not a DH? It seems just so it hurts his value for the sake of RR to be critical in argument? Should we judge Butler for his ability to play the field? They should be judged on equal ground
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:38 PM EDT up reply actions
people on here HATE frenchy...
ive been one of the most ardent frenchy supporters i feel like and i could care less either way
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:48 PM EDT up reply actions
A lot of people have an axe to grind -
mainly based on past performance, such that it becomes an “I told you so” situation. I want to see him dig himself out of the hole he has made for himself. He’s a little ahead of pace from where I thought he’d be and where his career numbers average out to this time of year. He has just been so dreadful lately. The plate patience from earlier in the year seems to be gone and he’s swinging too hard.
Sad isnt' it
He’s had the same stats as Hosmer his first 43 games of the season, but Hosmer is given more security because he’s Dayton’s guy.
Its funny I like Hosmer and don’t mind the draft pick, but I remember saying, “why!” when we have Kila killing it in the minors. Would Matusz and Kila been worse than Hosmer and nobody? Because right now Kila is worthless to the Royals as you pointed out
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 5:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What about adding Herrera to this list
He’s in the futures game, so somebody thinks he’s one of the best prospects in the minors
He is a reliever
and relievers as prospects don’t excite me very much. It’s nice that he made the Futures games, and he probably will pitch for the Royals, but I just don’t rate reliever prospects very high
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
OT (To anyone who cares):
I am going to write a fanpost that evaluates the Royals organization/team as a whole, and gives my take on what needs to be done in the near future just to piss Hawkins and Scott off.
I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.
By the way, haven’t you already written this post like 20 times?
by hawkinscm87 on Jun 24, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
what needs to be done in the future? Easy
Fire Dayton Moore. Any other solution you present is pointless until that piece of incompetent crap is gone.
No, regurgitating something Scott Mckinney says or check baseball reference does NOT make you a "stats guy".
And it certainly won't make Vin Mazzaro pitch any better.
You're very passionate.
And also very annoying.
by hawkinscm87 on Jun 24, 2011 4:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think he gets it
Why Moore is continually defended no matter how I argue his incompetence is mind-boggling.
I listed 50 low level acquisitions of terrible baseball players. Still I get laughed at for being critical of King Dayton.
Can anyone name one good hitter Moore has acquired in the past 5 years?
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 4:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It you can't figure out why your arguments aren't convincing people, you're not paying attention
There’s no shortage of people pointing out the problems with your arguments — like several of those acquisitions not being made by Dayton — but they don’t seem to sink in.
You don't speak for everyone, and there is a great shortage of people
You and a one other person actually. You speak for yourself.
Like the guy who wanted to point out that Buck was a Baird acquisition, but Moore continued to play him FOR FOUR YEARS.
Look over that list again. Whats pathetic is that you want to argue there is no shortage of people who want to defend that group of players as being a collection of quality baseball players. Now that’s laughable. I don’t care if they were for a short period of time (and half of them were paid a million +) Several years ago there was some serious backlash by many of the veteran posters on this board over almost every single one of those acquisitions.
It was funny then. Its not anymore
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:42 PM EDT up reply actions
you're using moore playing buck as a negative thing?
buck was a solid player when he was here and went on to perform even better…the only thing moore did wrong with regards to buck was let him go in favor of kendall
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions
And KC you are becoming notorious for side stepping the questions
For example, did the Pirates spend 7 million in acquiring an international player? NOPE
Once again, NAME ONE GOOD HITTER THAT MOORE HAS ACQUIRED?
Other GM’s have:
Nats: Mike Morse
Orioles: Adam Jones
Pirates: Jose Tabata
Royals: ???
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Sadly
The best hitter Moore has acquired via acquisition was Betemit (Callaspo’s OBP was barely .300 his last year) and both players defense was atrocious
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
betemit has been a far better hitter than jones and tabata
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions
How
Jones has a higher OPS by 50 points this year. I already got killed for using Betemit’s OPS last year as it was determined to be an absolute fluke. So how is he a a better hitter than Jones? And these are two young players getting better. Jones’ defense hasn’t been good but Tabata has been above league average the past two years according to fangraphs
So name one good POSITION PLAYER Moore has acquired
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 24, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions
you shouldnt use OPS at all for hitters....
well just this year…our catchers (both acquired by Moore) will be above average. Hosmer is going to be solid. Getz is going to be around average. So should escobar. Melky is the 4th best CF in the AL so far this year…well above average….frenchy is right in the middle.
Moore has basically acquired the entire offense minus billy and gordon…and this team is significantly above average offensively
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 24, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
It's not a terrible offense... but to nitpick that last phrase is only true if
by “significantly above average” you mean “slightly below average.” Prior to Friday’s game, the team’s wRC+ was 99. League average is 100. And that includes the NL pitchers hitting.
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by Matt Klaassen on Jun 25, 2011 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
LOL
Seriously you can’t make this stuff up. HOW THE F IS OUR OFFENSE SIGNIFICANTLY ABOVE AVERAGE!!!!!!!!!
We are 11th in runs scored and 15th in slugging % AND our two best hitters WITHOUT A DOUBT are Billy Butler and Alex Gordon.
So in other words our offense is below average EVEN INCLUDING NATIONAL LEAGUE TEAMS WITH PITCHERS HITTING and our two best hitters are the two guys that Moore didn’t even acquire.
What an absolute joke of a point you just made and no MOORE SUCKS AND ALWAYS WILL
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 25, 2011 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions
wRC+ takes into account
League, park and uses weighted OBP
gospel
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 25, 2011 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I think I've been a model of patience in continuing to answer your questions
Using your definition of acquisition, Gordon is a Moore acquisition (he’s continued to play him) and Gordon is exactly as good a hitter over his career as Jones.
In their time with the Royals, Betemit, Melky and Francoeur have all been better hitters than Jones and Tabata have been in their time with the Orioles and Pirates, respectively.
You arguments are as bad as Billy's
What are you smoking seriously? I want to know what sport you watching to come to that conclusion?
Adam Jones has an OPS of 805 this year, even after hitting a homerun for the first time in decades last night Francour has an OPS of 740.
You better learn to be patient because you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Francour is in no way a better hitter than Adam Jones.
Are you going to tell me that the Royals also are an above average offense team when they are 11th in the AL in runs scored?
Its a sickening symptom that you want to use whatever sabermetrics suit your argument when you are clearly just making a fool of yourself. Do a poll right now and lets find out how Jeff Francour is a better hitter than Adam Jones! The Royals are better than the Yankees just because if I say it then it is true. This is how you sound.
Yes, the Royals are great, their hitters are amazing. Francour is an MVP. And the Royals are the worst team in baseball not just because of their pitching. And I’m not being facetious
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 25, 2011 3:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Adam Jones 99 RC+ on his career and 101 RC+ in his time with the Orioles
I’m using the same statistics on all of these. I only use OPS when I’m providing context to your OPS-driven arguments.
In their time with the Royals, the following players have been better hitters than Jones has been with Orioles:
Billy Butler: 117 RC+
Rick Ankiel: 110 RC+
Melky Cabrera: 107 RC+
Scott Posednick: 105 RC+
Jeff Francoeur: 105 RC+
Doug Mint-kay-vich: 103 RC+
Matt Stairs: 103 RC+
I believe you described RC+ as gospel above.
Do I think this makes GMDM a genius? No. But you continue to assert things that simply aren’t true.
According to your logic Francour is better than Gordon hmm
and the plethora of starting pitchers on the Orioles (Britton, Guthrie, Arrierta, Tillman, Matusz) who are better than the Royals starters by quite a margin prove the Orioles GM is better than Moore.
by GobbleforCyoung on Jun 25, 2011 3:58 PM EDT up reply actions
What's up with Montgomery when he doesn't pitch at home?
He has a 3.81 ERA at Omaha, but he gets blown up on the road so the 5.83 total ERA exists.
One of those away starts was a weird one in Colorado Springs
where both teams went completely insane (apparently in part due to ballpark conditions). Both teams scored over 15 runs if I recall correctly, and I think Monty gave up something like 10 ER in that game. Probably accounts for a lot of it.
In short I think it’s mostly coincidence.
It's possible that the new Storm Chasers stadium is a pitchers park
in a hitters league. I don’t really know much about the new stadium, other than it’s not Rosenblatt.
by Connor Moylan on Jun 24, 2011 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Werner is a bit weird
it seems like it’s really friendly to right-handed hitters and has some random wall angles too.
but it wouldn’t take much for Werner to be a pitchers park compared to the rest of the PCL. I wish they would just put 10 teams together in a central-league and leave 10 in the PCL and 10 in the International League. It has to be fiscally ridiculous to send teams from Nashville, Memphis, and Omaha to Tacoma, Sacramento and Reno
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