Dubya's Top Farm Performers (6/27/11)
- Manuel Pina (C-Omaha-24); Game 1: 2-2, R, 2B(5), HR(3), RBI(12) - Hitting .220, OBP .348
- Elisaul Pimentel (SP-Wilmington-22): 7.0IP, 4H, 0ER, BB, 6K, L(4-5) - 3.72 ERA
- Leondy Perez (SP-Kane County-21): 7.0IP, 7H, 0ER, 0BB, 2K, W(2-7) - 2.85 ERA
- Jon Keck (RP-Kane County-23): 2.0IP, H, 0ER, 0BB, 2K, S(1) - 3.03 ERA
- Runey Davis (LF-Idaho Falls-22): 3-3, 3R, 2B(3), 2 RBI(3), BB, SB(1) - Hitting .409, OBP .435
11 months ago
Dubya
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Pina has 19BB/21K - love that plate discipline
More good starts by the young arms at A and A+
Winners: Omaha (Game 1), Kane County, Idaho Falls
Losers: Omaha (Game 2), NWA, Wilmington, Burlington
Others we track -
Omaha Game 1
Aviles: 1-3, R, K, SB
Gia: 2-3, SB
C. Rob: 0-3, K
Kila: 0-1, RBI, BB, K
Cain: 0-2
Suppan: 6.0IP, 6H, ER, BB, K, HRA, W
Omaha Game 2
Aviles: 2-3, RBI
Gia: 1-3
C. Rob: 0-3
Kila: 0-3
Cain: 0-3, BB, K
SOS: 4.0IP, H, 0ER, 2BB, 3K, ND
Tejeda: 2.0IP, 4H, 4ER, 0BB, 4K, 2HRA, L
NWA
D. Rob: 1-4, BB, 2SB, CS
Colon: 0-4
Myers: 1-3, BB
W. Smith: 5.0IP, 7H, 2ER, 3BB, 4K, L
Wilmington
Merrifield: 0-4, K
Navarro: 1-4, 2B, K, E
Francis: 0-3, BB
Prades: 0-3, K
Kane County
Fletcher: 1-4, R, HR, RBI, 2K
Cuthbert: 1-3, R, BB, E
Eibner: 0-4, K
I once had hope...now I have Moore.
What the hell kind of name is Runey?
Is he some kind of D&D superfan who got his body covered in Elvish rune tattoos and is now all runey? Or was his dad an unusually illiterate Steelers fan who wanted to name his kid after Art Rooney?
"First we got the bomb and that was good, 'cause we love peace and motherhood
Then Russia got the bomb but that's okay, 'cause the balance of power's maintained that way
Then France got the bomb, but don't you grieve, 'cause they're on our side (I believe)
Then China got the bomb, but have no fears, they can't wipe us out for at least five years" --Tom Lehrer
Maybe it is short for Runelvys
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 10:02 AM EDT up reply actions
Its short for Burundi
Kicked off the U of Texas baseball team for partying apparently. Cut after a year and a half in the Cubs organization.
You can follow him on Twitter
http://twitter.com/#!/RuneyDEEEEE
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jun 28, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions
Leading to more questions:
Why the hell name your kid after some East African genocide-ridden hellhole? And does he have a twin called Rwanda?
"First we got the bomb and that was good, 'cause we love peace and motherhood
Then Russia got the bomb but that's okay, 'cause the balance of power's maintained that way
Then France got the bomb, but don't you grieve, 'cause they're on our side (I believe)
Then China got the bomb, but have no fears, they can't wipe us out for at least five years" --Tom Lehrer
I was just about to ask that
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
what are the chances
that a single one makes the bigs? I have a new rule. Until you at least have success at AA your not a serious prospect. I will call it the Dwyer Rule. (or the Colon Rule or the Myers Rule or the Lamb Rule….)
If you're interested in betting that nobody from A/High-A makes the majors
I’ll gladly take the other side of that bet
Of course they do
I just think its wise to hold off on assigning ‘Top Eschelon Prospect’ until they get to the high minors. I will say, I think Wil Myers is a hugely overrated prospect. I am amazed at how much respect he got for how little actual production he achieved at low levels. He had a great OBP at two A level stops over one year. I like the guy but I can put a huge list of position players ranked behind him by BA 4 months ago that I would pleadingly take over him. Right now he looks like what he should have been before the hype monster took over. A 3rd round prospect. He is a corner OF who doesnt hit for COF power. He is just an example of overhyping a player in the low minors.
I have no idea what you're talking about
The second youngest guy in the entire league hitting for a wOBA of .384 (league average .341) is proof that he was overrated?
Expecting failure makes sense because most prospects fail. So yeah, don’t get your hopes up very high until the player has done something at a higher level. But I don’t think it makes sense to say that no player is a top prospect until he performs well at a higher level. Being a top prospect is about having good tools and a high ceiling. Also, being a top prospect isn’t about being very likely to succeed in the majors. Even the vast majority of top prospects fail. People just need to manage their expectations.
And I don’t know what you mean by overhype. If someone is saying that a prospect is a lock to be a good major leaguer, then yes that is overhype for any player at any level of the minors. But if they are saying he’s extremely talented and has a high ceiling, then that just sounds like straightforward analysis.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 12:26 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry Scott,
but Wil Myers is not the 10th best prospect in all of baseball as he was rated in Baseball America. That is my opinion. If you think he is, maybe your right. I hope so.
I think his performance so far has caused his stock to drop. But I think BA was right to rank him as they did based on what he’d done to that point.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions
thats what I dont see at all
I respect John Manual and JJ Cooper so I will continue to hope they are right on target with that.
he destroyed the ball…while being very young for his league…he projects to have positive defensive value and he was a highly sought after draft prospect. he didnt drop to the 3rd round due to questions about his talent…it was due to a question of signability. the royals thought about picking him with their first round pick and nobody wouldve been pissed if they had….myers is a great prospect. he’s been hurt most of the year and his numbers still arent bad and have been better since he came back from injury. he’s OBPing 374 for the entire season while being 20 in AA in his first year at a new position.
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 12:58 PM EDT up reply actions
He was a better prospect as a catcher
I question his ablility to hit for power. He has 22 Hrs in 700 minor league abs. I also havent heard the projections that you have about his OF prowess either. There is a diff between wishful thinking and reality. the former leads to disappointment. I look forward to apologizing to you in this forum when (if) one el Wil fulfills his sky high ceiling.
you're failing to look at the environments in which he was hitting...
and hitting for even that much power as a 19 year old is quite impressive regardless of the environment
and every report says that he’s more than athletic enough to be a very good corner OF…and he’s got the arm as well. now, its possible that he wont be good out there, but its not the most likely scenario
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Evaluating prospects isn't as simple as just comparing numbers in a straightforward manner.
Slugging over .500 in that absolute beast of a pitchers park in Wilmington (a devastating pitcher’s park in a pitcher’s league) at 19 years old is extremely impressive. The power doesn’t develop until later in most cases.
All I know about his OF prowess is that he is considered very athletic and is capable of handling CF duty one season after playing catcher. They ain’t doing that if there’s not some damn good talent there. I’m not saying he’s going to be the best defender in the league…just that he isn’t going to be some slow lumbering hack either.
Killing time until time kills me
Who are the 20-year old players hitting for power in AA you're comparing Myers to?
I don’t get what you’re basing your prospect analysis on at all.
He’s not as impressive as Mike Trout, but there’s nobody else at his age at his level hitting as well as he is.
one of those guys has actually played a game in AA...so thats good
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:34 PM EDT up reply actions
i dont know who he is...
but you said harper, machado and trout had all played in and were hitting better in AA…and they’re not
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Arvest park factor for RHB is 102
The league is historically high offense, but Arvest is about neutral within the league
Yeah, I think it inflates the power numbers of LH batters, but not righties.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Machado's wOBA+ at A+ is 80
Myers at AA is 111
he's only got 15 ABs in high a though
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:46 PM EDT up reply actions
you're talking to the wrong person...
im not down on myers at all
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:49 PM EDT up reply actions
During Hosmer's breakout year in the minors, he hit .354/.429/.545 in Wilmington as a 20 year old.
Once that happened, everyone went crazy about him and he was labeled one of the top prospects in the game. Wilimington is one of the worst parks for a hitter in all of professional baseball, at any level, right?
Myers matched that production (.346/.453/.512) as a 19 year old, and he did that as a catcher. He also apparently has the tools to potentially play CF (not saying he’d be good at it, just saying it doesn’t appear to be that much of a stretch).
Myers numbers are down so far this year due to health (now that he’s healthy, his numbers are going up quickly), but he damn sure is a very, very good prospect. A corner outfielder who was able to match Hosmer’s breakout season at a full year younger age…yeah that’s pretty damn good. Obviously if he doesn’t improve his numbers in AA…the rankings will change.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Jun 28, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
You do know he has been injured/recovering from injury most of this season, right?
Killing time until time kills me
his power has decreased slightly since he has been healthy
It doesnt mean much, I just posted it as a correction to your claim that all his numbers are going up quickly
come on,
he will NEVER play CF in the bigs. Thats silly. When a player first moves to the OF in the minors, it is very common to have him play CF sometimes because you get the truest reads on hit balls. Im assuming thats where you heard the CF rumors. Its not an option. Lets just hope he is an avg fielder with a plus arm and a Butler bat. I would gladly take that and I think an accurate projection. Billy hit for a LOT more power in the minors.
ehh...butler's power in the minors
when you adjust for hitting environments wasnt much better than what he’s done at the major league level
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:24 PM EDT up reply actions
I already said he wouldn’t be good in CF, just that he’s clearly athletic enough to make the transition to outfield just fine. I know he’s a corner outfielder. I also know that just looking at one number (HR total) and calling a prospect overrated because of that is quite silly.
He has hit every bit as well as Hosmer while at younger ages when healthy and plays a more premium defensive position. Myers deserves every bit of hype that Hosmer had/has.
Killing time until time kills me
Hosmer
was his age last year at the same level and absolutely destroyed AA when he got there. I dont view the two as the same level prospects. Maybe just me.
Hosmer was healthy, Myers hasn't been for a significant part of the season.
If Myers numbers stay where they are at now for the rest of the season, obviously his stock would drop, but last year he deserved the hype and deserves a longer stretch of playing healthy before we drop his stock.
I don’t think Myers is going to hit for the same power as Hosmer, not even close, but he’s already OBPing better than Hosmer did in AA and could be just as good of an overall hitter.
Killing time until time kills me
I refuse to use health as an excuse
If he is playing, he is healthy. Your making a LOT of excuses for him. Thats what Im hearing….He is still a solid prospect. I JUST DONT think he is the 10th best prospect in all of baseball. I would say more like 60 or 70. Still in the top 1 percent of Minor leaguers.
That's silly. If a player is playing hurt or slowed by injury, just pretending those injuries doesn't exist is just silly.
Just pretending injuries in sport don’t affect performance is just being ignorant, nothing more.
I’m not making a LOT of excuses for him. I’m making one. He’s been hurt a lot this season. It’s a factor.
Killing time until time kills me
why would he play if he is hurt?
what good does that do? Winning ballgames isnt a priority. I will repeat IF HE IS PLAYING, HE IS HEALTHY. Otherwise, the well paid training staff that Dayton has employed, would hold him out until he IS healthy. Thats how it works in the minors. Not so much in the bigs.
Players play hurt all the time. No, I'm not saying he's been playing with a torn rotator cuff, but to act like every single player that take the field in the minors is 100% healthy every single time is just a fantasy and nothing more.
Not saying he has been playing with a devastating injury…but clearly his injuries slowed him earlier in the year. I do believe he is healthy now…but it was a factor earlier in the year.
You typing a phrase in capital letters doesn’t just make it true.
Killing time until time kills me
My point is ..
..If a player is on the field, he doesnt need any excuses.
Coach: Willy, hows your shoulder?
Wil: A little tight, I’ll be OK.
Coach: Ok then, lets play ball!.
This is insane
Every player is always playing at his true talent?
If you knew an injury existed, why wouldn’t you make an adjustment for it when you’re looking at the numbers?
because its a cop out.
he shouldnt be on the field if he is hurt. At least in the minors.
That may be your philosophy, but that's not how it actually works.
No, a top prospect shouldn’t be playing with a seperated shoulder…but when coming off a knee injury, you’re gonna need a bit to get back into things fully once you come back. You don’t just miss a month with a knee injury and then come back and be 100% the first AB.
Killing time until time kills me
true
what was this huge injury of his anyway? ..My point is, maybe he was just in a slump and thats why he sucked. Im sure you probly have an injury excuse for Mooses April struggles. Like his buttocks were all out of wack. Then he got them back in sync and he was great in may and june. give it a rest. they are ballplayers. They are always dinged up….If he was coming off major knee surgery as in your example, that would be a different story. I dont think that was the case…..I concede the Myers injury arguement already. Oi vay!
I concede the Myers injury arguement already
Whew
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Just relieved that it is finally over. Of course I don’t think it really is.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 2:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not an excuse or a cop out
Its just reality. He’s hurt. Its just another piece of data we use in evaluating him.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
If Wil Myers were making excuses about his numbers himself, yes that would be a bad sign. That should be the attitude of the player...
..but when evaluating prospects, taking into consideration players missing time and dealing with lingering injuries is a factor. None of the people who evaluate prospects for a living just pretend injuries aren’t a factor.
Hell, just look at Hosmer in 2009. His vision was clearly messed up, but he still played and it clearly affected his play…but everyone was able to factor that into their evaluation of him and still see him as a good prospect. He had a sub .700 OPS in A ball, yet those that knew of the vision problems had no problem still thinking he had a ton of potential.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Jun 28, 2011 1:57 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they wasted a year
not diagnosing his vision issues and then trying contacts. Hindsight but stupid. That was a mistake.
I agree...but when you looked at Hosmer after his 2009 season, knowing about the vision problem
Did you really sit there and say “oh, well this guy is obviously a bust and will never make the majors” or did you think “oh, well he had a bad year, but he had vision problems so perhaps when healthy he will return to form.”
Clearly…the vision affected his performance and clearly, Myers was slowed by a knee injury early on (not to the same degree as Hosmer’s vision, granted).
Again, if Myer’s numbers stay where they are the rest of the year, he should drop down the list by a good bit, no doubt…but it’s simply too early to already do it b/c the injury has played too much of a role at this point in the season.
Killing time until time kills me
Honestly
After his first year, I was terrified he was a bust.
Well, then why haven't you learned your lesson. You don't evaluate prospects by just looking at numbers. There is a LOT more to it than that..
…and the guys who do it for a living know what they are talking about. Is Myers (or Hosmer) a guarantee? Of course not…but the potential is real and they deserve just as much hype as all the other top prospects.
Killing time until time kills me
hilarious
Then why was Hosmer not even in the BA top 100 prospects for 2010? Pull your foot out of your mouth. The “guys who do it for a living” wiped him off the board after ONE year. Moose at 80 wasnt much better.
The experts knocked Hosmer off the list after a wOBA+ (park/league adjusted) of 82
You’re having a similar reaction to Myers having a wOBA+ of 111 in 1/3 of a season.
Incorrect
Im not at all having a similar reaction. Read the beginning of the thread. I simply said I dont think Myers is the 10th best prospect in all of baseball and he has been overhyped. Hos failed much worse right from the beginning. I, and Baseball America whole heartedly agreed, was very concerned Hosmer wasnt worthy of the #3 pick. Your twisting my words. Go back and read them.
What you said
I think Wil Myers is a hugely overrated prospect.
he looks like what he should have been before the hype monster took over. A 3rd round prospect.
You say he looks like a 3rd round prospect. And that’s different from knocking Hosmer out of the top 100 how?
Writing Myers off as a top prospect at this point based on what he’s done so far in half a season at AA would be mind blowingly ridiculous. He’s hitting above average for the league. Now he hasn’t been hitting like a top 10 prospect, but as usual crownblues goes way, way too far.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions
Funny
Its seems Scott that you state the ridiculously overblown angle in all your points. Like yesterday saying Mazzaro was nothing but a throw in when you were clearly proven wrong when presented with three rebuttal articles from respected industry professionals. Its always then you seem to disappear…what happened to scott? In response to this issue I will only present facts:
Hosmer NWA 2010: .313/.365/.615/.980 50 games 13 hr, 14 dbls, 35 rbi
Myers NWA 2011:
.288/.374/.417/.792 44 games, 3 hr, 12 dbls, 16 rbi
Oh yeah, Hosmer then hit 5 hr in 6 playoff games.
Never said Mazzaro was a throw-in in that trade. I said he’s unimpressive with a low ceiling and was at the time. Did others think he had a high ceiling?
Yes, there were some articles which said it was a decent trade. Not good, but decent. I don’t think I ever said no one viewed the trade as decent. And I mentioned that in the thread.
In response to this issue I will only present facts:
wOBA breaks down everything he’s done (all hitting events, SB and CS) with their actual value. And wRC+ turns that into a “as compared to the rest of the league that year” stat. Based on that, Hosmer as 120 last year and Myers is 111 so far this year. So Hosmer only hit a little better. And, as we know, Arvest Park is much more friendly to LH batters than RH batters.
So we’ll see what Myers does for the rest of the season. Since the weather has heated up, so has his bat (and of course the ball carries better in warm Arkansas summers). Right now, he’s not far from where Hosmer was. We’ll see if he gets closer or farther away as the season progresses.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
Here is your words
I dont know how to do the grey box thing so I will cut and paste
comment #1
I don’t know. We got nothing for him. Is that a win? I think a better GM could have gotten something more than nothing for him
Comment #2
If you’re saying there was a risk and that other GM’s will factor that in, then yes. If you are assuming that this greatly decreases his value and that therefore no GM would be willing to make any offer better than two scrubs, then I think you are assuming much too much.
two scrubs. ….what was that again scott?
Yeah, two scrubs
And I think that is a fair assessment of both. A #5 SP who might possibly develop into a #4 SP (but probably won’t) is a scrub. Those guys are a dime a dozen. Those are the guys you can easily pick up off the scrap heap (See for instance Felipe Paulino). Neither is a good prospect, nor have they ever been in their professional careers.
Was that clear enough for you?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 3:57 PM EDT up reply actions
Paulino was at one time a great
prospect. He could be a steal. I dont get your perspective at all. Sometimes you seem astute and like you know what your talking about, and sometimes you just cant get out of your own way. I think you are smart but insecure. thats a tough one to fix. good luck with that.
Wow, are you for real? Point your amateur psychology efforts in your own direction as well. What do you think your posts on this site say about you?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 4:11 PM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to get into a silly amateur psychology battle with you. We’re both making rational arguments. They aren’t necessarily equally good arguments, but they are rational. We just disagree.
You need to accept that many people will disagree with you. Just embrace it and make the best arguments you can.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
he slugged 200 points higher
That more than a little bit better. Im not going to convince you and thats fine. I like Myers. I like Hosmer. We are probly not as far off as these jousting comments make it seem. Im really hoping he does get hot with the weather. Wil has righted the ship with his on base skills, .442 in the last 10 games so thats good. I will finish by stating for the 4th time that I was only saying I thought 10 was an overhype and it is. He is still a very good prospect. Im just not sure he is Jay Bruce like some think. Defend him all you want. I hope your right. …..I gotta go get some work done. bye!
he slugged 200 points higher That more than a little bit better.
And Myers has the higher OBP, and OBP and SLG aren’t on the same scale, so they aren’t equal. But we don’t need to guess at the relative value of their OBP and SLG. wOBA is a handy stat which properly weights all hitting events. And wRC+ puts that in the context of the league in that year. And, as I’ll say yet again, that shows that Myers hasn’t hit a lot worse this year than Hosmer did last year. How will Myers perform for the rest of the year? No idea. Let’s see. I try not to make much of a judgment on a player based on half a season. Let’s see how he pans out for the entire season and revisit it then.
Don’t know where I’d rank him right now. I wouldn’t put him in MLB’s top 10. Maybe it’s just semantics, but I wouldn’t call his ranking “overhype”. It was appropriate based on his tools and stats. Now his stock has fallen some, but not a whole lot in my opinion.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 4:10 PM EDT up reply actions
Also, I don't understand this comparison
Hosmer was his age last year at the same level and absolutely destroyed AA when he got there
2010: Hosmer: 120 wOBA+ at NWA
2011: Myers: 111 wOBA+ at NWA
Myers is not playing as well as Hosmer did or as Myers can, but don’t you think you’re overstating the difference between them?
Performance affects prospect evaluation
But it certainly isn’t everything. In fact, as much as I’m a stats guy, it is clear that tools are more important in evaluating minor leaguers than stats. Yes, Hosmer’s stock dropped. But neither BA, BP nor Sickels or any other serious prospect evaluator thought he was a bust who was no longer a decent prospect. He just didn’t appear to be top 100. Turns out a big reason for his poor performance was a vision problem that got fixed.
Any and every serious prospect evaluator will tell you that there is much, much more to prospect evaluation than looking at stats. I think the vast majority of them will tell you that tools are much more important than stats in such evaluations.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
those serious prospect evaluators
Jim Callis, John Manual and JJ Cooper all decided to not include Eric Hosmer in their top 100 prospect list one season after he was the #3 pick in the draft. Did they completely ignore his stats in making that decision? Just curious what you think buddy
one full season of play,
two actual seasons later
Did I say that they completely ignore stats?
No, I said that tools are more important than stats in prospect evaluation. And of course his pitch recognition tool looked like crap because his vision problem kept him from recognizing pitches well which of course affected his overall hitting.
Just to be clear, saying that tools are more important than stats in prospect evaluation isn’t exactly me going out on a limb. Everyone at BA would tell you that. Every single one of them. This is doubly true when you’re talking about very young players in the low minors. This isn’t exactly some revolutionary theory of mine. This is Prospect Evaluation 101.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 3:36 PM EDT up reply actions
I never said Myers was a bust
I put him at around the 60th best prospect down from 10. All things considered, thats pretty fair.
Over 162 games even tough guys get strained, a soar arm or a muscle pull.
This affects their ability to perform without fully preventing them from playing. Ask any player.
by BrRoyal on Jun 28, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Totally agree
I just dont want to hear all the excuses.
Fine
what are the injury reasons you are excusing Myers slow start then?
He injured his knee.
He sliced it open pretty good early in the season. It would not be any surprise that this would hinder his movement, either physically or mentally, slowing down his bat speed or and messing up his timing from the days that he did sit (which was over a week if I recall).
and then it got infected...
not an easy thing to deal with
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 29, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions
MITCH became an excellent defensive CF
after being drafted as a catcher. There’s no reason to make a blanket statement that ignores all possibility of a perspective other than your own. The statement “It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that Myers will be able to play a passable CF” is enough.
Ive read some reports as well
And listened to a few JJ PIcollo interviews and in one he told Soren Petro, when asked about Myers starting in CF tafter the switch hat it was part of the aclimation process to the OF because you get a better read on the ball. He stated their intention was to have Wil play RF. Thats my blanket. From the head of the Royals scouting dept.
we should be able to get bryce haper really cheap then?
how about blake wood?…hes had success at the AAA AND major league levels
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 11:48 AM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Harper is the greatest prospect ever.
There are always exceptions. If he hit a homerun off me and then blew me a kiss as he rounded the bases, I would take off one of my cleats and pummel him with it.
yeah...i bet you'd be able to beat up harper...
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 12:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Id smack that dirt lip stache of his face
and then grab him by the mullet hairs and …..
and he'd flick you away like he does the a ball fastballs
and expect you to say thank you for the pleasure of having your ass beat by bryce harper
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
He should be one of the best A-Holes ever
Along with, Bonds, Albert Belle, Eddie Murray, Ted Williams, Ty Cobb….(help me out here)
Ya- and all those guys can hit
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Jun 28, 2011 1:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
yeah...the act will get really old fast if he doesnt hit...
but i have little doubt that that’ll happen and little doubt that he’ll be my favorite baseball player
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 1:10 PM EDT up reply actions
why because you both
have mullets and sweet staches? Nice
Ted Williams gets a bad rap
Cap Anson belongs on that list though.
I need to go take a Davies and wipe my Elarton. Excuse me.
by royaldaddy on Jun 28, 2011 1:16 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Bianchi
Bianchi has hit .330/.371 in his last 28 games. At some point can he be added back as a prospect? Last time I checked the Royals could use a second basemen who could hit the ball to the outfield.
talk to me, Johnny...
He is one of Bairds boys
They arent generally treated very well under the Moore regime. He looked pretty good in ST for what its worth. So did Monty though and he is clearly not close to ready.
and zack didnt get a huge contract
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 11:56 AM EDT up reply actions
I think Moore evaluted them and acted accordingly
Now we may not agree with his evaluation. But I really don’t agree that Moore loves all of “his guys” and hates all of “Baird’s guys.”
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 12:28 PM EDT up reply actions
I agree
Ive just heard that so much over tha last 3 years on this site. That moore hasnt given Kila a chance I get sarcastic about it. When Aviles came up in 08 and hit 325 the question became, why wasnt he up sooner?
I think Kila wasn’t given a chance earlier because Moore and his people didn’t like his tools, and that is how they evaluate players. It’s all about tools. I don’t think they pay much attention to stats, even old school stats.
When Aviles came up in 08 and hit 325 the question became, why wasnt he up sooner?
Because before that, by all accounts, he wasn’t much of a prospect. No prospect evaluator was too impressed with his tools, nor do I think he’d torn it up statisticaly.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
I was just happy to have a guy...
…I hadnt heard of kicking ass
I do, at least a little.
I don’t think it’s unusual or even a grossly terrible thing to do (he’s got a process and he’s sticking to it), but the “coincidences” of seemingly useful Baird guys not getting a shot are just to frequent to totally ignore. It’s not that big of a deal – I’m going to complain about it, of course, but I’m not going to let it ruin my day or anything.
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jun 28, 2011 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You think it was the fact that Baird signed them rather than the fact that they didn't play well?
Baird’s good players are still with the club or were traded for good value. Baird’s bad players are bad players.
And Butler's big contract
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions
you guys are excellent at ..
cherrypicking examples of hindsight. Zack was already in the bigs and the other 2 were top 20 prospects when Moore took over.
Look at all the abuse Billy takes even now.
And Alex struggled tremendously for years. But they’re both still here.
Worth mentioning that Moore supposedly offered Billy AND Zack for Yuni.
At different times, individually of course. But still.
you are talking about when Yuni was a real prospect?
My god, That trade alone would have gotten him sh*t canned in 9.65 seconds
Moore also traded off some of Bairds soldiers
Cortez, Buckner, Nunez, Howell…(not positive howell was a baird guy but I think so), Blanco, Burgos
he missed on howell and nunez....
and traded pretty high on the rest…..the buckner trade was a win…the burgos trade was a win…and i dont remember what we got for blanco. the cortes trade was a loss simply b/c we played betancourt for two years
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 28, 2011 12:53 PM EDT up reply actions
Cortes (not Cortez)
was not a Baird guy. Moore acquired him and Tyler Lumdsen from the White Sox for Mike MacDougal, who was drafted during the Herk Robinson era.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Jun 28, 2011 1:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Not enough to argue about lately
So I guess we have to have a dumb argument about whether Myers is a good prospect…..
In other dumb news, Petro had Joel Goldberg on recently to argue about whether the Royals can fix their rotation for 2012 without trading Moustakas or Hosmer. The dumb part was Petro ragging on Cuthbert for being a light-hitting third baseman with only 4 home runs on the season. What he forgot to mention was that Cuthbert has only played 28 games and his slugging .472 as a 19 year old in a pitcher’s league. There’s nothing about that profile that says ‘light-hitting’ to me…..
At least give him credit for knowing who Cuthbert is.
I wonder how many of those dudes could.
I was listening to 810 today sadly (Im a 610 guy)
And Petro kept saying trade Mouse and Hosmer for about 20 minutes straight while bringing up the fact that Joel is wrong and etc…
One of the dumbest arguments I have ever heard. All of it was based on that since Mouse isn’t slaying so far and the fact, and get this because this is crazy, that Mouse has struck out LESS so far in the majors he must have changed his approach and isn’t going to hit homeruns anymore just try to survive at the plate to keep his average up.
Not to mention he asked the audience if Alex would be on any competing teams roster and be in the lineup. His answer seemed like no and a few of the call ins agreed.
He is clearly better than starters on Detroit, Arizona, San Fran, Boston, maybe NY, Cleveland, Atlanta, and possibly Philly.
I hate that station.
by KCTiger on Jun 28, 2011 5:02 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Wow, he doesn't think Gordon is good enough to be a starting OFer on a contending team?
That’s just embarrassing.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 5:11 PM EDT up reply actions
Considering Gordon is the best left fielder in the American League...
And overall like the 4th best or something like that. Petro also doesn’t seem to have Gordon on his fantasy team. I do, and I can tell you he’s one of my best players.
As you can see...
Gordon ranks 5th in WAR for AL outfielders. He ranks 7th in wOBA. He is tied for 8th in wRC+.
So he would apparently be rosterable on a contending team. Let’s say there are 7 contending teams. That means 21 starting outfielders. If the worst Gordon ranks offensively is 8th, then Petro’s comment is completely ridiculous. But we already knew that. If you add in fielding and baserunning (questionable) then Gordon deserves a spot on the All-Star Team.
When I lived in KC, Petro was pretty good
This sounds like Colin-Cowherd-level analysis.
Too bad.
I think Petro tries too hard.
When he’s on the phone with Rany, he lets Rany do the analysis. When he’s talking to somebody else, he deems himself the expert. He always refers to himself as a nerd as if that implies he’s also smart. So much for that assumption.
I think it's funny how Nick Wright is more of a NBA, NCAA, NFL kind of guy...
But he seems to know more about baseball than Petro, Kietzman, Fescoe, etc. Parkins is pretty good too but I don’t hear him much. But actually, The Border Patrol is the best show for baseball talk. Bukaty and St. John are the best informed and have good discussions with Rany, Buster Olney, and other writers.
nick wright has gotten SO much better with regards to baseball...
when he first started, he knew nothing. 610 tried to have him do the postgame and he got taken off that duty after like a week because he was clueless
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 29, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah
Petro wasn’t totally off-base, but Joel didn’t argue against him well enough.
Petro’s argument was that the Royals don’t have top tier starters close to the majors in their system, they won’t be able to get good starters in the FA market this offseason, and that in order to improve their rotation, they’ll therefore need to trade one of their elite position prospects for an elite young starter.
It makes sense on the surface, but it’s ignoring a few significant alternative options. For example, the Royals could sign a #3-type starter. Kuroda, Wilson, Jackson or Buerhle would go a long way toward improving the rotation. They could also trade a B-level hitting prospect (or B-level veteran) for a B-level pitching prospect. Acquiring the Eric Hosmer of pitching would be great, but the Lorenzo Cain or Billy Butler of pitching would instantly become our best starter as well. Lastly, the Royals can bundle together some fringe prospects (Robinson, Lough, etc) together with cash to acquire an effective but overpaid starter on a team looking to cut budget. I don’t have names in mind, but these deals seem to happen every year. If the Royals could grab the Alex Rios or Vernon Wells of pitching, they’d be much more competitive.
Go after Chad Billingsley.
Next year he begins a 4 year/46M deal and is only 27. The Dodgers may be looking to cut payroll depending on how the ownership situation plays out. It’d at least be worth looking into as I don’t see a FA coming to KC and I fear Moore over paying someone like Edwin Jackson.
This is the one I'm looking for too
Billingsley looks like an excellent target.
by Prime2U on Jun 28, 2011 7:48 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
selig isnt going to let them have a firesale
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 29, 2011 1:58 PM EDT up reply actions
The bankrutpcy trustee, not Selig, gets the ultimate say
Not that the trustee is going to necessarily going to encourage a firesale, but I don’t think Selig will be in a position to block a trade here.
I'm not saying a firesale, it'd have to be a legitimate offer.
I’m just thinking trades are the more likely route than big time FA signings.
Yeah, I agree with you
I think the trustee is going to want them to get current expenses down, so they’ll be encouraged to trade their expensive current contracts for prospects.
Having said all of that, pitchers coming out of the NL West worry me because the parks in that division are so screwy.
they can be enouraged all they want...but transactions still have to be approved by the commisioners office
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 29, 2011 2:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Like I said before, I don't think it will come to it
But if the trustees tells the Dodgers they need to cut payroll and Bud announces he’ll block any trades, it would make for an interesting showdown.
i dont think that the bankruptcy trustee has final say on baseball matters...
bud’s not allowing any move to go through that his appointed guy doesnt like…the bankruptcy court doesnt have any say on baseball transactions
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jun 29, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions
Bud is Glass's good friend and he's still let us partake in many crappy trades.
Why not the Dodgers?
Yeah cuthbert
Is hitting for loads of power considering the league.
by Prime2U on Jun 28, 2011 5:07 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
wRC+ of 139, or 39% better than average hitting for that league. He’s hitting very well, and it is particularly impressive given his age.
BTW, does anyone know why Fangraphs seems to think that he’s in the A’s system this year?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jun 28, 2011 5:14 PM EDT up reply actions
Yeah.
Fangraphs has it all switched because they have not changed the affiliates. Burlington Bees are now the A’s. Kane County is now the Royals.
On the leaderboards, all the A’s players are labeled as Royals and vice versa.
This may be the most awesome thread ever
Granted, I only made it half way through the argument, but it still inspired me to go out tonight and make futile attempts to reason with my fellow human beings, despite my better judgment.
"If I stop drinking all at once, I'm afraid the cumulative hangover will kill me."
So usually, I get like 3-5 comments on these threads
Leading me to think that somehow either:
1. A political argument broke out on it
2. Someone mentioned Allard Baird
3. A major trade happened
but no. Just an incredible discussion about Wil Myers. I love this site.
I once had hope...now I have Moore.
I'm not sure the discussion was "incredible"
Mostly really pointless. But I guess someone decided to shake things up by being stubborn.
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