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Nick Van Stratten and the Fact of Failure

Buried in an otherwise utterly pointless story about Jeff Francoeur saying he's ready to start being awesome again, was the note that the Royals have demoted Nick Van Stratten. Van Stratten, a 2006 draft pick was sent from Northwest Arkansas down to Wilmington, after one year plus at AA. Some diehard Royals fans were briefly excited about Van Stratten for awhile, a few years back, mostly just because there was little else to be excited about. But his peers got better and he got worse.

I don't mean to be harsh, but Nick Van Stratten's career as a Royal is effectively over. He faced long odds to begin with and his development has stalled. Relentlessly, newer, fresher faces are being drafted each year and whatever interest management may have had is just about gone.

So what should Nick Van Stratten do?

We're told two contradictory things by the voices of rationalizing corporate management self-help culture: follow our dreams, never give up and work hard, on one hand, and always be looking to reinvent yourself and adapt and innovate on the other. Of course, both are basically lies. There's not enough for everyone to be successful and many of us just don't have anything to offer the world even if we could. But those are things that we can't acknowledge, so we just don't talk about it.

But to the matter at hand. Do you keep pursuing your dream? Keep grinding away, keep failing? Or, do you say, "this isn't working, time for Plan B." The airport bookstore isn't going to provide a conclusive answer here. Because, again, most people are failing at both. However, because of survivor's bias, no one is writing a glowing biography of the guy who kept submitting his screenplay for 20 years and was never even listened to by a single agent. No one at CNBC is arranging an interview with that woman from your church group who started a coffee shop three years ago and lost her life savings. There's no chapter about someone who ran away to Vail to be a ski instructor and ended up selling insurance in Pueblo three years and a divorce later.

Star-divide

 

Year Age Tm Lg Lev G PA OBP SLG OPS TB
2006 21 2 Teams 2 Lgs Rk 59 268 .387 .434 .821 98
2007 22 Idaho Falls PION Rk 24 114 .407 .500 .907 49
2008 23 Burlington MIDW A 40 155 .400 .489 .889 68
2009 24 2 Teams 2 Lgs A-A+ 111 452 .385 .431 .817 170
2010 25 2 Teams 2 Lgs AA-Rk 90 357 .341 .350 .691 110
2010 25 Royals ARIZ Rk 4 15 .467 .583 1.050 7
2010 25 Northwest Arkansas TL AA 86 342 .335 .341 .676 103
2011 26 Northwest Arkansas TL AA 68 232 .298 .380 .678 79
Provided by Baseball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 6/30/2011.

 

I don't know what Nick should do. But I do think he should start thinking about it. When I was 26 I was in grad school in the humanities, which is more similar to being a minor leaguer than you might think. There's little pay, but what you do get to do is pretty cool. Both situations are weird mixes of being exploited and being treated to something interesting and antiquated. Huge industries, in both instances, rely on you, really mostly as a bulk quantity, and a few stars graduate to glory and justify the whole system for the next generation. There's not much of a chance, for most, of it really working out, but hey, you've got the rest of your life to work in a bank, right?

I don't know what Nick Van Stratten should do. But as a 26 year old in A ball, he should definitely start thinking about things. There are two sad things about your 20s: 1) you never have enough money to do what you want to do during the times you could be doing it and 2) they end. I was a failed grad student. I knew that was likely going in and at some level definitely knew that halfway in. NVS is almost certainly going to be a failed baseball player. In my case, I went for the stick it out/keep dreaming option, which ended up in the baseball equivalent of what NVS is headed to. I wrote a dissertation that was supposedly good but no one really cared about and a novel that no one wanted to read or buy. Well then. I technically finished the Ph.D. and had a horrible adjuncting job with no future. I am now the world's oldest intern in a different field, in a still terrible economy. Fun times.

So Nick could stick it out, pray that he gets released or traded to a different organization (preferably one that has no minor league depth) and that his game takes a turn for the better. With a few breaks, I could see Nick Van Stratten playing a season or two for, say, the Brewers in 2013ish. Or, he could parachute out sooner rather than later. From where I sit today, I would tell him to clock out now, spend some time away from everything and figure out Plan B. Plan B is also likely to fail or be boring and possibly terrible. But hey, we have to do something.

It's weird the way we talk about guys in the Major Leagues. They have their own scale and standards, but they're all incredibly good at what they do and about 80% of them stick around long enough to be fantastically well off. At least for a little while. Unless he gets into broadcasting, no one will remember Mark Grudzielanek at all in 15 years, a player who made $36 million playing baseball. Kyle Davies has become a punch line and has been called the worst pitcher in baseball history and he's making $3.2 million this season. So our sense of perspective is seriously skewed, like half-thinking that the only elected officials or politicians out there were members of Congress: even the worst of the bunch (by any measure) is in such a small elite percentile, it's almost impossible to do the math.

I went off on the "Jeff Francouer Teaches Us About Life" thesis for many of these same reasons. I'm tempted to say that Nick Van Stratten is the one teaching us about life, but that would be a lie. Nick Van Stratten isn't informing us of anything we don't already know. There are a few people that make it and get things and have things and can do things and then there is everybody else. There's the fella who your town was named after, and then, there is, you know, everybody who actually lives in that town.

I'd venture to say that no one is teaching us about life because at some level there's nothing really to learn. Our human lives, so short and so changing are too complicated and contingent to apply lazy homologies and easy rules. You do your best, eventually discover you suck, like everyone else, and you just kinda move along.

So anyway, Nick Van Stratten.

Comment 117 comments  |  20 recs  | 

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I really like this piece

but, you wrote a book?

I loathe David Glass

by RoyalJHWKR on Jun 30, 2011 11:46 PM EDT reply actions  

I don't know

if something was never published, does it count?

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 8:07 AM EDT up reply actions  

Dude, Kindle publishing

This stuff is hot now. People are looking for all sorts of stuff to read. If you have a manuscript, put it up and charge a buck for each download. People are making serious cash doing this now.

by bas on Jul 1, 2011 10:36 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Agree wholeheartedly

Will, if you published a book, I’d buy it. I really don’t care what it’s about, you’re just a damn good writer.

by moregritplease on Jul 1, 2011 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm in Will.

I read everything I can. Get it on there and put up a post about it here. I’ll download it, try to generate some reviews and you’ll at least get your $$ back.

This post is really, really good.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 1, 2011 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

WTF
"We’re not in that position. We’re just not, and there are times when you start to add a little pressure to yourself, and I think I did that a little last week."

-Franceour

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jun 30, 2011 11:49 PM EDT reply actions  

After reading this....

I don’t know if I should laugh, cry, or shoot myself. Same probably goes for Nick.

by FallenAngel on Jun 30, 2011 11:50 PM EDT reply actions  

Might not be but I do bet he has bills to pay.

This is a topic that needs Minda around to help remind everyone how little these guys make while having zero options of trying another org.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jul 1, 2011 12:05 AM EDT up reply actions  

yea... what was his signing bonus?

He probably doesn’t have much debt, unless he has just spent like crazy, so he’s up on most people in that regard. But he’s probably got very little in the bank right now.

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 7:19 AM EDT up reply actions  

Another reason why Royals Review

is one of the best blogs around — the excellent writers.

Great post, Will.

by Dave Gershman on Jul 1, 2011 12:04 AM EDT reply actions  

If Will had been a "successful grad student,"

I would have to find something else to distract me from my grad work.

by BrRoyal on Jul 1, 2011 10:15 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess I was a "successful grad student"

But all it’s gotten me is a job that requires me to teach six writing courses a semester and all summer long with no time to write myself. I make a good living, and have respect from administrators, fellow profs, and students, but I’m unhappy with my life most of the time. I’ve had a few things published, and even had a piece in a national pub back in ‘08, but I’ve maybe written ten pages since then, none of it publishable. It’s fucking depressing that I have at least some ability, but no motivation to use it after a long day of reading and giving feedback on terrible student writing. I have a feeling all the terrible writing I read has diminished my abilities anyway.

Well, time to get back to reading their shitty essays.

by OnixConcepcion on Jul 1, 2011 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

I consider myself a "successful" grad student

Because I realized my upside was to try to string together English adjunct positions (Independent Leagues) at three schools while trying to pay back a crippling debt load—so I gave up early.

Beautiful piece, Will. I loved the grad school/minor league analogy.

by Royal(e) with Cheese on Jul 1, 2011 10:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

Probably true. Trying to read 5th graders writing for 6 years has completely eroded my spelling abilities.
I have a feeling all the terrible writing I read has diminished my abilities anyway.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jul 1, 2011 10:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

I honestly think at the end of the year I’ll have a .340 on-base percentage

- Jeff Franceour

Can we please remember this quote and have a big laugh about it later?

by hawkinscm87 on Jul 1, 2011 12:29 AM EDT reply actions  

this reminds me of my buddy

he topped out for the blue jays AAA team at 26 last year, and is now back down at AA in the tigers system at 27. he is driven and somewhat delusional at the same time and doesn’t know what he wants to do anymore. the life of most basball players is not very glamorous unless you get a big bonus before playing a game or make it to the majors. the vast majority don’t make it big, but i guess that’s life.

by BeauJackson on Jul 1, 2011 12:38 AM EDT reply actions  

The delusional part I understand.

Most guys like him and NVS have to be in denial or they’d never get through the season. They’d just mail it in, and that doesn’t help anybody. I think the only thing you can do is SAVE YOUR MONEY. At least NVS is still pulling a salary for the time being.

by hawkinscm87 on Jul 1, 2011 12:43 AM EDT up reply actions  

Good post...

I’m 24 and still in school, so I don’t have any money. Sometimes I think about how almost nobody has any real money until their 20s are over. Then I think about the guys that are nearing 60 driving around in a Porsche convertible and I completely understand. It’s just another example of how we try to use money to make up for a lack of happiness, or in this case, youth. I’ll probably do something like that—perhaps not a convertible though. At least, I hope I have the money to do it. If you can’t combine youth and wealth, you might as well try to experience them at some point.

by hawkinscm87 on Jul 1, 2011 12:40 AM EDT reply actions  

There are a lot of people who never have "real money"

A lot of our evaluation of wealth is based on, again, as Will mentioned, survivor’s bias. Every old person doesn’t have a Porsche but, for the most part, the small percentage that do who aren’t celebrity of some sort (athlete, actor, hot shot banker, politician, etc) will achieve this later in life.

by sterlingice on Jul 1, 2011 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

interesting post Will

did not know you wrote a novel. Lots of folks start but never finish one. And hey, you’re pretty good at blogging.

Anyhow, I get this feeling. Seems like getting into ones 30s brings a special melancholia. Seems too early for a mid-life crisis, but our generation does everything faster I guess.

by KC Gunner on Jul 1, 2011 12:44 AM EDT reply actions  

we also invented the quarter-life crisis

or maybe the media did, but we were there for it

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 7:23 AM EDT up reply actions  

Livea Of Quiet

Desperation are the best most of us will experience. I look forward to shaving my eyebrows in a warm bath.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 1, 2011 12:46 AM EDT reply actions  

Typically great piece from Wi McD

One thing though: I’m surprised to see you even subscribing to the phrase “make it.”

“There are a few people that make it and get things and have things and can do things and then there is everybody else.”

I guess if by “make it” you mean be super-rich and famous, sure, that only happens to a few people. But if you consistently find pleasure in the life you create for yourself to me that should be considered making it. Even ordinary people can have some things and do some things. If those things make you happy and you can make a decent living, you’ve made it in my book.

“Our human lives, so short and so changing are too complicated and contingent to apply lazy homologies and easy rules.”

Amen, brother. Platitudes sicken me. I’m trying to live my life here. Mine.

What the NFL labor dispute needs is a modern-day Robin Hood

by big matt on Jul 1, 2011 1:04 AM EDT reply actions   1 recs

For Most Of

Us, life is what happens while we are making plans.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jul 1, 2011 1:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

In New York same thing applies but 5 yrs later.

by TMS on Jul 1, 2011 1:55 AM EDT up reply actions  

When my wife and I went to our first time parents’ child birth and baby skills classes on NYC’s upper east side, it seemed like just about all of the soon-to-be parents were in their late 30’s (including us).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 2:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

lazy

Do these effectively hide my thunder?

by splitty on Jul 1, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

And selfish. Really.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions  

Same thing in Oxford.

Most of the pre-parents in the fee classes my wife and I attend are mid-to-late thirties. They all seem really happy actually—although who knows what kind of lives of quiet desperation they all lead! The free classes offered by NHS are less middle-class, and apparently there it is all panic at the disco. (Although I have heard the folks there handle new parenthood remarkably well, often better than us middle to upper classers.)

There seems to be a bit of a shift in how people view blue vs red state lifestyles. I was pretty convinced by the view that simpler lives and closer family connections mean more happiness, and that this is associated with red states…but recent research suggests that blue states have less divorce and more stable families, underwritten by late children with better paying jobs outside the collapsing manufacturing sector (and a willingness to have abortions at will).

My friends who are quintessential blue-staters do seem more uniformly neurotic, but having more toys does seem to dull the pain a bit. The happiest combination might be someone with a red-state mentality, but who does well for themselves in a blue state…?

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 10:46 AM EDT up reply actions  

They all seem really happy actually—although who knows what kind of lives of quiet desperation they all lead! The free classes offered by NHS are less middle-class, and apparently there it is all panic at the disco. (Although I have heard the folks there handle new parenthood remarkably well, often better than us middle to upper classers.)

Yeah, it’s hard to say how people in different situations deal with first pregnancies. The people in my class appeared apprehensive, confused and unprepared (in the way that you’d expect soon to be first time parents to be). I also felt like most of them had the money that a great deal of the parenting would be done by a nanny, au pair, etc. I think they were mostly concerned about the actual child birth, which is something they can’t farm out to someone else.

Hard to say how happy they might have been. In my experience those people seem unnaturally driven, neurotic and persistently dissatisfied.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

But you can farm out a lot of the pain...

The epidural rate here in the UK is something like 20%—there’s an unbelievable push for natural childbirth here. (The most common painkiller during birth is…laughing gas! I kid you not. Talk about storming the battlements armed with a squirt gun.)

My (American) wife is all epidural—the US rate is more like 80%. She explains it to disapproving midwives by telling them to imagine that, at some point about 40 weeks in the future, a stranger was going to come up behind you and do a composite break of your arm. If you knew that he’d anaesthetise you first, you wouldn’t worry about it quite so much—it wouldn’t be this daily continual foreboding of massive pain, just an awareness of something difficult coming up.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

True, they do get epidurals and that helps a lot. But it’s still scary. The woman has to deal with a lot of painful contractions before they get the epidural (heck even before they get to the hospital). And then the entire time she’s under the epidural she can’t move at all and has to use a bedpan. The paralysis can become maddening. And then there’s the worry about whether the labor is progressing well enough and whether a C-section is going to be necessary. And if there’s no C-section (and thankfully there usually isn’t) there’s the worry about the actual pushing, etc.

But yes, much of the pain can be and usually is avoided. Still scary as hell. It was happening to my body and it scared the hell out of me.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 11:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

I guess she's less worried just by a framing effect...

she judges her situation relative to the fear of the people around her who aren’t getting any painkillers.

I suppose we’ll find out soon: due date is in ten days. Wish us luck!

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 11:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Congrats and good luck!

If she’s not worried (or not worried very much), that’s great. In all likelihood, it will go very well. Be prepared for her to be not so nice for the period between when her contractions get intense and when she gets her epidural.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 11:22 AM EDT up reply actions  

Just to be clear, I wasn't in any way referencing having children

I’m 30 and haven’t so much as had a serious girlfriend in the last three years. I don’t plan to ever marry, let alone have kids.

I was referencing stuff like, oh, I don’t know, Tolien literature. MMA. Seafood. Stuff I like, you know?

What the NFL labor dispute needs is a modern-day Robin Hood

by big matt on Jul 1, 2011 10:44 AM EDT up reply actions  

I was referencing stuff like, oh, I don’t know, Tolien literature. MMA. Seafood. Stuff I like, you know?

You didn’t mention baseball. WTF???

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 10:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Cool

Hopefully the Royals will do something in the next few years to draw you back into the game. It would be nice to follow the Royals through a penant race for a change.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

I'm with you on this one and I do see it and feel it

I’m 31 and my wife 30 and we don’t have kids yet but there is this definite vibe there. To be fair, we’d eventually like to but there’s really no rush and our marriage and careers are more important to us than having kids right now.

(Then again, there are an awful lot of people I know who had unplanned kids and I get this vibe of “that part of our life sucks so yours should, too- so make the decision or lack thereof that we did and feel some of our pain”)

by sterlingice on Jul 1, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

As a parent,

I feel the other side of what you guys are talking about. Professionally, where I work, if you have kids you are looked down on for not being able to completely dedicate yourself to your career. People without kids, regardless of track record, are given promotions and extra responsibilities because the belief is they more committed than someone with a family. It’s a foolish way to evaluate employees.

by Dadunca on Jul 1, 2011 4:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

I'm sure there are places that are the opposite, which is also stupid.

Maybe a small business where people with big families get promotions and raises because they have a family, rather than because they do good work.

by hawkinscm87 on Jul 1, 2011 5:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

That's really sad and stupid (but I suppose it shouldn't surprise me)

Then again, my marriage is easily the most important thing in my life so if it ever came down to a decision between that and my job, the decision is easy and the job loses out.

That said, I look around my work and it turns out dedication to work is pretty darn independent of family status. Yes, there are people who have kids and use them as an excuse to always be out. However, I would argue that if they were single and had no kids, they would be the same and the excuse would just be different. Similarly, some of my most dedicated people have families and it doesn’t affect their work one bit. Heck, they typically have more of a maturity about them and it makes them better at their job as they are “better at life” in general.

by sterlingice on Jul 1, 2011 8:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks for making my day

And for making me want to quit writing.

by NotAHippie on Jul 1, 2011 1:46 AM EDT reply actions  

damn will

That was some intense and depressing shit. We will all find out we suck? Cmon now keep trucking I’m drunk so Idk but u seem sad and depressed. Just remember. HOS!!!

by LimaTime10 on Jul 1, 2011 2:24 AM EDT reply actions  

And the abyss is definitel staring back right now

I’m too young to think of all that (starting my frosh year of college in the fall) but this article just makes me want to stay young and cheer for the royals and let everything else fade away. Good piec of writing, really got me thinking

by LimaTime10 on Jul 1, 2011 2:33 AM EDT reply actions  

I would advise you to stay young

This is your life and it’s ending one minute at a time.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 2:36 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

im going to do my best

The god damn six man rotation and melky leading off doesn’t help. I can’t tell u how much stuff I’ve skipped over the years to watch alby lopez and Abraham nunez and Carlos febles and all the rest. This article really makes u question why u waste such precious time with such a dud. But I wouldn’t change it for the world.

by LimaTime10 on Jul 1, 2011 2:50 AM EDT up reply actions  

It's going to make that parade on the plaza all the sweeter

I just hope I’m not a 90 year old drooling mess when it happens.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jul 1, 2011 3:02 AM EDT up reply actions  

hahahaha perfectly stated

Whether u like DM or not, we are a little closer to that ever elusive parade than we have been in the past. My favorite summer of my life was when I was 11 in 03 and thought mcdougal was the next mo rivera. This article really has me appreciating everything I have, and when the royals turn this shit around, I will have the satisfaction that very few can match ( the readers of this blog and a thousand more die hards )

by LimaTime10 on Jul 1, 2011 3:08 AM EDT up reply actions  

Don't forget the closet fans.

Everytime a team wins the World Series, more fans seem to appear from nowhere. The most extreme example would be 2004 when the Red Sox won.

by hawkinscm87 on Jul 1, 2011 3:32 AM EDT up reply actions  

Excellent piece, Will. Thanks.

I’m probably a bit older than you and most of the posters here. I’m on my 4th career, and I suppose I’ve never actually “made it”, and probably never really will to my satisfaction. I learned quite awhile ago that I essentially “suck”, but the one thing I didn’t suck at was saving money and living within certain limited means.

I would suggest NVS keep playing as long as possible because he’s actually getting paid to do something I’m sure he loves doing. By that standard, I think NVS has already “made it”, compared to most people. From my perspective, 26 is a very young age, and he’s got plenty of time to either bounce back with another affiliated team, perhaps extend the dream by playing in one of the many independent leagues, or move on to the real world where it’s likely that he’ll end up doing something he cares far less about. But no matter what he does, if he saves his money and doesn’t have delusions of a MLB paycheck in the future, he will have perhaps avoided sucking, and can proudly point out to anyone who will listen that he was good enough to have played professional baseball. How many of us would love to be able to say the same?

by Timba Land on Jul 1, 2011 3:59 AM EDT reply actions  

lots of truth in that
I would suggest NVS keep playing as long as possible because he’s actually getting paid to do something I’m sure he loves doing. By that standard, I think NVS has already "made it", compared to most people.

NVS should probably try to enjoy the little things, so to speak, about his minor league life, the pleasures of the game, of seeing people, of being outside, etc.

It is hard to have perspective, especially after a few years. I would guess most minor leaguers truly love baseball at some base level, but they’re also so driven to get to the Majors that it’s kinda lost on most days.

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 7:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

I would guess most minor leaguers truly love baseball at some base level, but they’re also so driven to get to the Majors that it’s kinda lost on most days.

I get that impression in a big way.

WTF, self?

by minda33 on Jul 1, 2011 6:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adjunct work sucks, but...

…but a diss-defended PhD should get an invite for an interview at most positions. My wife and I are both tenure-track professors at the same institution. There were some hard years, but we lived on the “Chronicle of Higher Ed” and “Higher Ed Jobs” long enough to find someplace that worked for both of us. We later found out that most of the people we were competing against in the market were A-ABD and B-weird. I think one is only SOL if their doctorate is in some terribly obscure off-shoot of some terribly obscure discipline. The only barrier a solid PhD candidate faces is that s/he has to be willing to move to pretty much any city/state/country where the right job is. Not always practical, I can certainly understand…

The greatest moment of my childhood was when [insert name] did [insert insane thing].

by 2motley4thetitle on Jul 1, 2011 8:33 AM EDT reply actions  

Having just gone through this process

I think you are probably being too kind. I have a number of friends that have degrees in hand with no prospects for a decent job. I got lucky that I found a position at a really small school that was not as advertised. The last two years, it has been positively brutal (and I am not in Philosophy or English, where you might as well give up).

by bas on Jul 1, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, it's pretty tough...

my brother and his wife are both very good candidates, with PhDs in molecular biology from Washington University. Good school, good publications, good theses, good field. And they’re having a terrible time breaking out of post-docs and into tenure track.

It’s easier maybe in fields that are, for example, defense funded. After my PhD in physics, I worked at a national lab for six years, funded by the military (before switching to law). If Will can find a way for semiotics to be used offensively, I suspect he, too, can pull in six figures on the GS scale.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

Rec'd for this

“If Will can find a way for semiotics to be used offensively, I suspect he, too, can pull in six figures on the GS scale.”

by sterlingice on Jul 1, 2011 11:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

what is your PhD in?

My sense is English has been a bloodbath the last few years. I applied for a number of non-TT jobs teaching freshman comp (but maybe a half step up from adjuncting) and didn’t get an interview

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 10:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

"the last few years"?

Were things ever great? One of my best friends, a PhD in philosophy ten years ago, said that after his degree he was going to be begging on sidewalks with a cardboard sign that said “Will reason for food.”

English/philosophy PhDs can take comfort, however, in the fact that law JDs are now being screwed, too: coming out with a lot more debt than the typical PhD, and finding it far far more difficult to step into those $165,000 starting jobs that were so plentiful five years go. “Will explain the rule against perpetuities for food” is an even less useful sign.

And if a JD does get a job, it’s often not exactly what they expected, to put it mildly. I actually liked being an associate in Big Law (with the exception, occasionally, of the crazy hours—and I’ll be returning to it soon, but with a newborn), but I think I was a bit of the exception. At least, judging by the complaints, which were reminiscent of graduate program cannon fodder where I did my PhD.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 11:12 AM EDT up reply actions  

yea...

With my timing and general propensity for failure, at least I can console myself that going to Law School may have been even worse.

I just ended up in my 30s with no future and no references and no anything, but at least I was relatively low debt. Law schools.. like PhD programs, have been churning out too many graduates, for their own reasons and in response to increased interest for awhile now.

Then again, a terrible law job is essentially better or equivalent to a mid level to good academic job.

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

better pay, maybe...

…but not always even that. there’s a two-hump distribution of law jobs: a cluster around $165,000 (big law in major cities), and a cluster around $50,000 or so. In the latter category, you do find some jobs that are, how shall we say, heartwarming, like think tanks or public defenders or prosecutors, etc. But there are a lot of tremendously crappy jobs in that category, without the big law payout to make the medicine go down.

I think many people dream of academic jobs because it’s doing something you love, with relative freedom. But I do suspect any activity becomes job-like if done for a lot of the day, and I suspect that academics have less freedom than we believe. (Like the extensive administration work: Stephen Carter hated doing admissions reviews so much that he just alternated “admit”/“do not admit” for each candidate, until he was found out.)

I wonder if having a future and references is all that it’s cracked up to be. I’m sure it’s nice, I mean, ceteris paribus. But I hypothesise that people with futures and references have the same occasional night chills that the rest of us have about the meaning of life. It’s nice to have the references to reassure yourself with (as long as it doesn’t become a crutch, I guess), but a lot of worries cut right through any barriers our control could possibly throw up.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Could be worse.

You could be 36 with 3 kids, never going past a BA in music education only never to set foot in a classroom for more than 6 months, while your wife goes on to get both a MS and PSY-D and become a highly successful clinical psychologist, meanwhile you take a shit job selling cars only to get promoted and up to your ass in debt to live a stupid lifestyle steeped in expensive hobbies that you have no time for…The one positive is that I at least made good money for 14 years. I just have no savings due to the ongoing “lifestyle” that we have chosen.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 1, 2011 2:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

a professor of mine once said,

at some point things switch over, and my chances of being “youngest person to do X” are mostly finished, and now one looks more at “oldest person to do X.”

always things to look forward to.:)

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 2:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Wow...

I have a year left of law school and I can tell you, this just gave me a super fuzzy feeling. Based on what I know about being an associate at a big firm, I don’t care to try for it, especially not right out of law school. I’d rather get on with a small firm and do that for awhile. Who knows, maybe somewhere down the road I can get a nice in-house job with similar pay and slightly better hours.

I will say that my debt is considerable, but much less than some of my peers. I went to a small public school (Northwest Missouri State) before law school and it was fairly cheap compared to other options. And of course, I ended up in the same place as people from Mizzou and KU for the most part, but also the random Syracuse, Harvard, and a couple Vanderbilts. Have you seen the tuition at Vanderbilt? It’s like 55 a year.

by hawkinscm87 on Jul 1, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

don't write off big law too soon...

the market is slowly heating up again, and there really is almost no better way to learn for a couple of years, even if you end up not liking it enough to stay. the learning curve is very steep, and you’ll come away with an amazing perspective on whatever rotations and practices you worked in. plus, depending on what you want to do, big law can be an initial big career boost, and it’s a bit harder to ever break into big law if you don’t start there, while moving to a smaller firm is a bit easier. and the hours aren’t totally insane everywhere: primarily ny, and to a lesser degree dc. the headquarters of Brian Cave in st louis, for example, is well known for having moderately laid back (for lawyers) and good partners.

by Paris_of_the_Plains on Jul 1, 2011 8:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

My wife is fresh out of Georgetown Law

She’s studying for the bar and looking for jobs, and it’s brutal.

She wanted to go work for the government, and she had great internships (Dept of Justice after her first year, US Atty for DC during her second year, SEC after her second year), but the government is practically in a hiring freeze, and she’s pretty much screwed. The only people who have jobs are those who pursued Big Law — not necessarily in Big Law, but those summer jobs translate to anything and the firms try like hell to make offers to the people who spend the summer.

The one piece of advice she gives people starting law school is to pursue the big law jobs because that keeps your options open, and nothing is more valuable than options.

Also, my mom works at Shook Hardy & Bacon, a big firm in KC, and I think it’s a much different culture than the big New York firms.

by KSinDC on Jul 1, 2011 10:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

that's why i quit at my master's

Loved the teaching. Loved the environment. But just couldn’t give up the control over my environment to the degree required.

by Yunielateral Movement on Jul 1, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

NVS is presumably doing what he's always wanted to do...

…which is play baseball for a living. Now he’s not in the majors yet, and he may never be, but he’s still playing baseball everyday as his real job while the rest of the lemmings in the world are working in cubicles updating TPS reports. That’s awesome.

Personally, I think he’s already made it. No matter what happens in his life from now on, he will always be able to look back and smile thinking about the carefree days of playing baseball for a living. He gave it his best shot, and that’s all any of us can do. He may not have this attitude now of course, but eventually he will hopefully realize that the journey was the reward.

by deezle on Jul 1, 2011 9:17 AM EDT reply actions  

When I worked

At Warner Bros there was an assistant there who used to play minor league ball for the Indians. He was proud of that but also proud of what he is doing now. I think playing ball for a living would be a great story to tell… even if it it never pays well

The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com

by CollininCalifornia on Jul 1, 2011 9:55 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions   1 recs

I have a friend that played as high as AAA Charlotte.

He has a cubicle job now, but will always be that friend that played pro bal and went to a college world series to me. I think he’s the man, but I kick his ass all over the golf course and he can’t stand it.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 1, 2011 2:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Great, Will

For some reason your writing reminded me of TS Eliot’s Love Song of J Alfred Prufrock.

I had to read it in college humanities and loved the “quiet desperation” line. Good stuff.

I think baseball is great because the sport is so big that it has it’s own culture which parallels the world we all live in. Plus, failure is such a part of the game, even at it’s highest levels, that one has to be mentally strong to succeed (as well as have to physical tools, of course).

Anyways, great writeup on NVS and great work overall. It was simultaneously depressing and wonderful.

The Alex Gordon era - www.number4thesmirk.com

by CollininCalifornia on Jul 1, 2011 9:49 AM EDT via mobile reply actions  

Everyman dies

Not everyman really lives.

by BrRoyal on Jul 1, 2011 10:20 AM EDT reply actions  

just look for an end to my comments in some game thread

that’s the way i’d want to go

pre during an escobar ground out

by Freneau on Jul 1, 2011 11:27 AM EDT up reply actions  

Great line

I think the next tagline when “just wait til…” is changed ought to be “Royals Review — a midlife crisis blog”

by KC Gunner on Jul 1, 2011 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions   1 recs

This article is fantastic and wonderfully well written.

Will, you are my hero. It is fascenating reading about your life choices and where you are and how you feel about it. I have made maybe one tough decision in my whole life, and the rest have been easy/ordinary/obvious. I think it is a honor to be able to read you.

talk to me, Johnny...

by johnny4 on Jul 1, 2011 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Not so crazy

You have done things and made decisions, I could not, you write like I cannot write. This is not so different than someone having Peyton Manning as their hero. I don’t have a poster of you on my wall or anything…

talk to me, Johnny...

by johnny4 on Jul 1, 2011 11:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

yet

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 1, 2011 2:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

what does that say about me who...

…first played 2 years of minor league ball…washed out….then went to grad school? i just love punishing myself in thankless high failure situations. of course now i’m and assistant professor and really like my life most days. so sometimes persistence pays off.

Nice Post Will, a little depressing, but very well written. speaking from experience….i really like the minor league/grad school analogy. although, i made more money as a grad student than i did in the minor leagues.

by DickHowser4ever on Jul 1, 2011 11:25 AM EDT reply actions  

I thought I was going to have to write this post but I'm glad someone with better skills hit it first

Some of what is being lost here is on one’s definition of winning. I never made it as a baseball player (couldn’t hit a 70 mph fastball, much less 95), never tried to be an astronaut (if they had some contest where you could enter and win a spot, I would do it in a heartbeat), and likely won’t ever be a millionaire but I don’t feel any sort the failure or not having “made it”.

There are times when I feel I’m not ultimately using my skills to their utmost potential but there’s a lot to be said for luck plus skill being a determiner for a lot of things in life.

To bring this back around to baseball, in some other universe, I’m pretty sure Kila is drafted by another organization, nurtured and a “successful” MLB 1B right now. Same person, same skills but different opportunity. Then again, maybe in another one. he’s some guy on the street. Is he a winner here because he’s not that one or is he a loser in this universe because he’s not Albert Pujols?

by sterlingice on Jul 1, 2011 8:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

I definitely enjoy the grad school/minor league comparison.

This was alluded to, but I don’t think explicitly stated: you spend a lot of time trying to make it to both, assuming that, once you do, success is virtually guaranteed. So you do whatever it is you have to do to get there, and to make it through, only to realize that you probably should have done a lot more. And to feel as if you might have squandered a very good opportunity.

I’m immensely happy in my current position, and feel fortunate. But that happiness has come from a whole host of things that I didn’t anticipate even being relevant early on. Our entire generation is becoming over educated based on the premise above, and so many are faced with this reality once they’ve finished school. I’d like to think that finishing grad school isn’t our ceiling. Nick agrees.

by Professor Stephanie Willbanks on Jul 1, 2011 12:52 PM EDT reply actions  

I understand many of the points behind the piece

But I don’t necessarily agree with them all.

There’s not enough for everyone to be successful . . .

I guess the question there is one of define successful. Certainly in the USA we define success higher than say in Kenya, but that in and of itself should be celebrated. Think of all the opportunity, knowledge, and experience we can experience today as opposed to people less fortunate than us in other countries or even in comparison to our own ancestors of 100 years ago.

Plus, I don’t like the idea that there is not enough for everyone. That sounds like there is a pie that everyone must take a piece from and some get bigger pieces than others. If the world is like a pie, then it could be continuously enlarge to make more for more people.

and many of us just don’t have anything to offer the world even if we could.

Everyone has value, although it is true that for whatever reason, all of us will not reach our potential. But, it is rough to compare life in general to the way professional sports works because unlike Baseball, in life you aren’t limited in your opportunities based upon whether you were born an athletic freak of 1% of the population.

There are a tremendous amount of opportunities out there and it is my hope that we still live in a country that allows us to pursue them. I’ve been as down as anybody over the last year. I had a fiance end things with me and I’ve been unable to break in to us the degree I spent thousands of dollars and 7 years of my life to earn. But, I’ve found a new way forward. I hope anyone else that needs one, can find their own.

by Chyladin on Jul 1, 2011 12:56 PM EDT reply actions  

Really well said

Way to keep moving. I hope you get some good fortune to go with your good attitude.

by KSinDC on Jul 1, 2011 10:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

Don’t be ashamed of the gray in your hair
Just think about the fun you had putting it there

Francis Fukuyama once wrote a widely misunderstood book called The End of History. His point was Hegelian (not that I know anything about that): people (and nations, and classes, and races, etc.) seek a state called thymos in Greek, which means something like balanced self-esteem.

If people think less of you than you think of yourself, you feel shame. If people think more of you than you think of yourself, you feel guilt. You’re only really happy when your opinion of yourself corresponds with that of others, and then you’ve found thymos.

So if Fukuyama and Hegel are right, we’re all doomed to be miserable.

"First we got the bomb and that was good, 'cause we love peace and motherhood
Then Russia got the bomb but that's okay, 'cause the balance of power's maintained that way
Then France got the bomb, but don't you grieve, 'cause they're on our side (I believe)
Then China got the bomb, but have no fears, they can't wipe us out for at least five years" --Tom Lehrer

by Juancho on Jul 1, 2011 12:59 PM EDT reply actions  

FC Barcelona fans as a group STILL haven't reached thymos

They’re so used to being the eternal second-place team that they constantly whine about not getting enough respect. One of the favorite chants when they win something is “Madrid, you bastards, salute the champions!” This is probably because, most of the time, Barça fan = Catalan nationalist, and the Catalans constantly whine about not getting enough respect, too.

Royals fans are a particularly dangerous group. We once felt thymos back in the ‘70s and ’80s when we were the model expansion franchise and regularly won division titles and had a real rivalry with the Yankees and won a World Series. Now we’ve lost it because we’ve been the worst team in baseball for the last twenty years and David Letterman makes jokes about us. We feel shame because others think very little of us, as we cling to images of George Brett and the pine tar bat from back when we were relevant.

Groups that have lost thymos are particularly vulnerable to violent upheavals. The American Revolution was caused by the once-content colonists, used to running things on their own with little interference from London, getting pissed off when King George III stole their thymos and started bossing them around. It wasn’t that they were poor and exploited; the living standards in the colonies were much higher than in Europe, and George III’s bossing-around was largely symbolic. An even more obvious example is Nazism, directly caused by Germany’s loss of thymos after World War I.

Another one is the French Revolution, provoked by the suppression of the rising thymos of the newly well-off and well-educated French middle classes under the Old Regime. If KC in 2011 were Paris in 1792, we’d have Dayton’s head. Literally. Groups that feel collective guilt (US society in the ’60s) or shame (Latin American radicals, anti-colonial nationalists, Islamist extremists) are prone to violent upheavals, and the Bastille would have burned long ago.

"First we got the bomb and that was good, 'cause we love peace and motherhood
Then Russia got the bomb but that's okay, 'cause the balance of power's maintained that way
Then France got the bomb, but don't you grieve, 'cause they're on our side (I believe)
Then China got the bomb, but have no fears, they can't wipe us out for at least five years" --Tom Lehrer

by Juancho on Jul 2, 2011 11:21 AM EDT up reply actions  

Obviously, his next career move

is to become a gynecologist in Beverly Hills.

My new blog: Those Other Guys. Critiques welcome.

by jonfmorse on Jul 1, 2011 5:06 PM EDT reply actions  

One of the things that has kept me here is the excellent writers we have here..

and I don’t only mean Will and the people on, for lack of a better word, “staff”.

"That's fine wood from... somewhere."

by KeepItCopacetic on Jul 2, 2011 12:49 AM EDT up reply actions  

Couldn't agree more.

I’m truly thankful that I stumbled upon RR a couple of years ago.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 2, 2011 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions  

Interesting Dark Post

And basically wrong. Trust Nick Van Stratten to make the decision best for himself about his baseball career. It is his life. He may be happy. He may make the big leagues. He may wash out. Let him find his way without strangers calling him a likely failure.

All of us can find a life to enjoy. Will is flat wrong in stating, “There’s not enough for everyone to be successful and many of us just don’t have anything to offer the world even if we could.” The world is not a zero sum game. There is plenty for anyone to be successful as defined in their own terms. And everyone has something to offer the world, even if some might think it is a modest offering. Small things are actually a big thing if they bring joy, happiness, good feelings or even just a laugh to someone.

by Kansas City Oracle on Jul 7, 2011 8:47 PM EDT reply actions  

And, Francour seems like a good guy

Regardless of whether he should be playing against right handed pitchers (he should not), he seems to bring happiness to people and is a pleasure to be with. So, in addition to being a rich major league baseball player with skills that the rest of us can only dream we have, he it me seems to be a successful guy.

by Kansas City Oracle on Jul 7, 2011 9:01 PM EDT reply actions  

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