Rosenthal: Dayton Moore Not on Hot Seat
by Freneau on Jul 19, 2011 10:46 AM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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PrintKen Rosenthal wrote about GMs on the hot seat today, passing along some semi-interesting rumblings. Not mentioned in the piece was Dayton Moore. Thus:
ROSENTHAL REPORTS DAYTON MOORE'S JOB IS SECURE!!
Get the ticker-tape, banner planes, and caligraphers ready.
Of course, since the farm system took a step forward last summer, this is no great surprise. This despite the fact that the team is again struggling at the Major League level and the minor league system isn't quite destroying all comers as it did last year.
Moreover, I'm not sure Dayton Moore's job has ever been in jeopardy. There certainly haven't been many rumors to that effect.
Whether or not it should be is another question.
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I think it takes an owner or CEO that is keeping track of the team
To have a GM on the hot seat. If no one can fire you, you are safe.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 19, 2011 11:01 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Secure?! Secure!!!!
His job is as much secure as our borders to the south
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Jul 19, 2011 12:08 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
I don't think his seat is even warm at this point, but...
If the Royals tank again next season (don’t even flirt with .500), then I think his seat could get very hot. He’s promoted multiple top prospects and more will be coming next year. Moore has decided that the future is now. If that doesn’t start turning into a better W/L record, I think thinks could get dicey for him.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 19, 2011 12:12 PM EDT reply actions
yeah
if they lose 90+ in 2012, he will be fired in 2013 unless the team starts hot. But if they lose 90+ in 2012/2013, Moore is gone by August 2013.
The Glasses run the show now (like when they got Hillman fired) and if DM is promising stuff he can’t backup, he won’t last long.
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Agreed
I think fall of 2012 will be a decision time for the Royals.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 19, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
I think you're right, but he also has an out if "his guys" are playing well
The poor record might be escape-able if Hos, Moose, Duffy and/or some other prospects are performing well. He can point to signs that The Process is starting to take hold.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jul 19, 2011 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions
If he doesn't let the prospects come up, his seat is going to get hot in a hurry
All he has is the farm system. If guys like Giovatella and Cain can’t get promoted with the way they’re playing down there, either because Dayton is committed to a short-term solution (Melky) or because he overvalues a mediocre player (Getz), then I don’t see how he maintains any fan support. If they need time to develop, fine. But it’s hard for me to believe Cain has much else to learn at AAA.
Bottom 6% in MLB is only struggling?
That was maybe the nicest comment Will has ever posted.
Moore should not be on the hot seat
In the past year, he’s done quite well. Significant moves off the top of my head:
-Doesn’t trade DDJ before 2010 injury: Excused. Can’t predict injury, and it makes sense to wait out the best offer as you approach the deadline.
-Trades crap at deadline including Callaspo, Ankiel, Farnsworth, receives Tim Collins and crap: Something for nothing. Well done.
-Holds Guillen too long, misses chance to evaluate Kila: Unforced error.
-2010 minor league season. Huge success. It’s odd to give Moore credit now for work his staff did years ago, but that’s how it plays into his job security.
-Trades DDJ for crap. Nothing for something. Bad move, but Moore says nobody else was interested. Mitigates the error to some degree, but they should have just taken the compensation pick.
-Signs FA’s Cabrera, Francoeur, Chen, Francis, Betemit. Unbelievable bargain bin shopping here. Every one of them has far exceeded their contract values in productivity.
-Trades Greinke for Escobar, Cain, Odorizzi and Jeffress. Half a season later, this looks like an excellent return, especially considering that Moore’s hand was essentially forced.
-2011 prospect development half-season. Good, but not great. Big names have graduated to the Majors, and while none have dominated out of the gates, this was to be expected. Only Dwyer has really taken his name off the board as a top-level prospect. Cuthbert and Odorizzi, meanwhile, have thrown their names into this ring.
With a year+ like that, if Moore wasn’t fired in 2010, he certainly won’t be on the hot seat now.
Forgot Treanor
Another something for nothing acquisition. Treanor has surprised everyone with his value.
Take a look at the WAR value of Callaspo, Ankiel and Farnsworth since departing...
and compare that to O’Sullivan and Tim Collins. I don’t know how -.9 WAR for O’Sullivan and Collins (versus a 4.6 WAR from Callaspo, Farnsworth, and Ankiel) rates a ‘something for nothing’ or a ‘well done’. If those players are ‘crap’ then given their subsequent performances, the return is shit.
And since it was DM who signed Guillen, I don’t know how he gets ‘an unforced error’ for being forced to play him.
If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.
by setupunchtag on Jul 19, 2011 1:33 PM EDT up reply actions
we had none of those guys under contract for this year...
so the WAAR they’ve put up this year means jack shit
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 19, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Callaspo would have been under team control, so he counts.
Farnsworth and Ankiel were just rentals though, so you can’t count them for this year.
Go Royals!
Not sure I agree with that
Ankiel, Callaspo and Farnsy had a 2.4 WAR the year they were traded – I don’t know how anyone could have predicted they would be more valuable this year. If you’re going to bash DM for that, you should praise him for signing Melky, Frenchy and Francis who are matching that output (3.8 WAR) for less money.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Callaspo was a very good bet to return to being a league average player
He was one season removed from a 2.0+ WAR season, his skills set suggests that was not a fluke, he posted 1+ WAR in less than half time role the previous year, he had adapted well to 3B, and a good part of the dip in production in 2010 was from bad “luck” on balls in play. He was under team control at a reasonable rate. Moore sold low on Callaspo.
I won't disagree with that
But when you get a chance to start Chris Getz, you have to take it. Look at his Ron Polk Points.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 19, 2011 4:23 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Adding into this, the cost of Ankiel, Farnsworth, and Callaspo definitely doesn't make the return prettier.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
There certainly haven't been many rumors to that effect.
Just the usual burps from the Pop Tart Brigade. I’ve heard that it is supposed to take seven or eight years to build an organization, so Moore looks about on schedule.
It's funny
It used to be four or five years. Now it’s seven or eight….
Maybe we should give nine or ten just to be sure.
Edgar knows best.
by kcbottom9th on Jul 19, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
I'm not sure what you're talking about
We’ve always been at war with Eastasia
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Jul 19, 2011 2:30 PM EDT up reply actions 6 recs
If this one burped, it'd be cute and everyone knows it.
Supporting the Kenji Jackson Approach for every day situations.
by MarioVanPeebles Republic of China on Jul 19, 2011 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
God this post is an insult to our intelligence.
Go post this crap in a Bieber forum or somewhere else where people aren’t fond of using their brains.
Killing time until time kills me
by EspeciallyK on Jul 19, 2011 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
Seven or eight years?
My Super Bowl plan is twenty years long!
-Signed, Carl Peterson
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 19, 2011 1:48 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I wish Scott's alter ego of Jimm Fetteroff would stop talking about pop tarts.
I’m hungry.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 19, 2011 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I've been trying to get her to come down to the basement all day.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jul 19, 2011 6:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Dayton Moore
A few years from now (if he still has a job), he’ll say 10 years.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 19, 2011 2:08 PM EDT up reply actions
No way man
Not with studs like Davies, Mazzaro, and SOS ready to take the bump.
Pro-Dayton Moore = Blogger
Anti-Dayton Moore= Troll
by DaytonSucks on Jul 19, 2011 2:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
This is a joke right?
Dayton could go 0-162 five years in a row, kill Glass’ dog, and become a Satanic Cult Leader, and even then I doubt his seat would be warm.
There is simply no accountability in this organization. Besides, Glass will probably pocket $35 million+ this season. The bottomline is all that matters. And Dayton Moore is giving him record profits in a crap economy.
The Pope is less secure than that idiot Moore.
Pro-Dayton Moore = Blogger
Anti-Dayton Moore= Troll
by DaytonSucks on Jul 19, 2011 1:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Im not sure if anyone in the organization
honestly gives 3/4 of a shit about winning. So I guess maybe I shouldn’t either. They will never say it but it’s hard for me to imagine that they worry over this shit anywhere near as much as we do.
So yeah, why not. No need to shake things up.
If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a man on base. — Dave Barry
Think of it like this
You own a restaurant and you hired this great chef from Atlanta. Problem is, the public hates his food and critics say his food is the worst in the business. Yet, you are raking in record profits. You gonna fire the chef? Of course not. Glass is a businessman, pure and simple. And right now, business is good.
Anyone here think Glass wouldn’t gladly take a 0-162 season if it meant a $50 million profit? Wins and losses mean nothing. What should we expect from a WalMart guy?
Pro-Dayton Moore = Blogger
Anti-Dayton Moore= Troll
by DaytonSucks on Jul 19, 2011 1:59 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Cynical?
Dude we are 20 games under .500 in year 6 of the GMs tenure,
Pro-Dayton Moore = Blogger
Anti-Dayton Moore= Troll
by DaytonSucks on Jul 19, 2011 2:06 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
and the owner has done everything anyone could ask of him since DM was hired....
bitch about DM all you’d like…but glass isnt at fault here. he’s thrown whatever resources DM has asked for at every issue….extra minor league team…some of the highest spending in the draft/LA….nearly doubling the major leauge payroll (before this year)…resigning homegrown guys….big FA signings…
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Jul 19, 2011 2:31 PM EDT up reply actions
6 years of "doing everything anyone could ask of him since DM was hired"
is a start. By my count, if Glass does that for FIVE MORE years, then that will be 11 years of “doing everything” to offset the 11 years of doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING RIGHT.
At that point, I’d be willing to concede Glass has ascended to an average owner.
For the record, the next 5 years will probably need to include spending significantly over budget at some point, and therefore incurring a year or two with net losses, in order to still qualify as “doing everything anyone could ask”
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
Is greatly increased spending including a couple years of net losses something one could reasonably ask of an owner?
I don’t think teams usually spend more than their revenues in order to build a winner. While that does happen sometimes, I think those are exceptional occurrences.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 19, 2011 4:41 PM EDT up reply actions
in the case of Glass, yes
because he is on record as saying he just wants to break even, and he did this whole thing only as a favor to Ewing Kauffman.
I’m taking him at his word. He has actually made decent profits, especially the approx $40m or so he is on pace for this season. To me, that means he should be willing to give some or most of that profit back at the appropriate time – which would mean he would “just break even” over the long haul.
Naturally, he has the right to not do that – but if he chooses that, in my book he’s fair game for suffering any and all slings and arrows any public liar can endure.
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
We will see how you feel
When Glass let’s Hosmer walk.
Dude is making bank right now. Accept it. The bottomline is the bottomline.
Pro-Dayton Moore = Blogger
Anti-Dayton Moore= Troll
by DaytonSucks on Jul 19, 2011 4:17 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I think we should all hope for Hosmer to walk. If he does, that means he was really good for his team-controlled years.
Don't get me wrong.
It would be nice if he gave a discount for the team that developed him, but I don’t think that happens.
I agree with Scott on this one -
although I’m not sure that his seat would be all that warm if the Royals tanked next year. He’s begun changing the date to “2013”, and can reasonably use the Greinke trade as a reason for that. He’s also extremely charismatic, especially in regards to ownership (he DID manage to convince him to open the coffers).
Frankly, firing him at this point would be completely unwise. The Royals are committed to a path; let’s make damn sure it doesn’t pan out before giving up.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Jul 19, 2011 2:10 PM EDT reply actions
Keep him around
Just demote him to scouting director and let someone else who can take the long view be GM.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Jul 19, 2011 3:33 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
No other GM can take what Dayton has built and turn that into a good MLB team?
Fire Moore, keep the minor league and player development parts of the FO including the amateur scouts and let a GM who knows what he’s doing with a MLB team get the Royals into the end zone.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 19, 2011 4:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
needs more sports metaphors
get the Royals into the end zone with a three-point shot.
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Seriously
How many years does this clown get? A decade?
Pro-Dayton Moore = Blogger
Anti-Dayton Moore= Troll
by DaytonSucks on Jul 19, 2011 4:18 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
first to go will be Yost. and then hold our breath to see
who’se next clown to sit in the manager’s chair. with some (though its overrated imho) talent flowing in GMDM may yet save his job merely by figuring out finally the relationship between a good manager and won loss record. That generally takes about a year or two—see Tampa.
with some (though its overrated imho) talent flowing in GMDM may yet save his job merely by figuring out finally the relationship between a good manager and won loss record
So he’s going to figure out that there is very little relationship between a good manager and won loss record? See Tampa? What, see that a ton of talent made that team a winner?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Jul 19, 2011 11:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Of course this is true.
But if we had another person making tactical decisions, I think we would have 3 or 4 more wins this year. There have just been a lot of questionable decisions. Not “hindsight is 20/20” decisions. Not pinch-hitting for Escobar decisions. If you or me were managing, we would have won one or two of those.
When you say "see Tampa"
I think “Lou Piniella”
SBN's most random and mysterious lurker
by Lum on Jul 20, 2011 11:40 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
HIDER & SONs BOY
What more do we need to see from Dayton Moore.He should be fired now.With this incompetent ownership we really have no chance.
With "Mission 2012" being used in Rany and Mellinger's work
the casual fan may start to get more restless if the team is still below .500 next year.
Unless I'm wrong...
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