A Look Back at Dayton Moore's First Draft
Dayton Moore was hired shortly before the 2006 Draft, and the official story has always been that he recused himself from that enterprise. I've always found that a little hard to believe, but then again, the role of the GM on Draft Day is typically overstated by fans. It's really a day for the scouts and the player dev. guys who have spent the last year doing the leg work. In any case, by 2007 Dayton and his guys were fully in place. Just for the heck of it, I felt like looking back at how that draft has turned out so far.
- (2nd overall) Mike Moustakas: I'm assuming you know about him. Some disagreement about his upside but a broad consensus he will be an everyday Major Leaguer. Will he be average, good, or great?
- (66th overall) RHP-Sam Runion: A high-school pick out of North Carolina, Runion struggled from the beginning, spending three seasons at A-level Burlington. He recently had Tommy John surgery and is rehabbing. Still in the organization, has to be a long shot at this point.
- (96th overall) LHP- Danny Duffy: I'm also assuming you know about him. Duffy posted a 2.96 ERA in 72 minor league starts, reaching Top 100 Prospect Status. Duffy's rookie season hasn't been all sunshine and rainbows, but there's nevertheless good reason to be hopeful.
- (126th overall) RHP- Mitch Hodge Nielsen: A high school pitcher out of British Columbia, Nielsen is currently a reliever for Kane County. Nielsen has always walked too many people and not struck out enough, and that continues this year.
Obviously, the draft goes on, but the top ten gives you a decent snapshot. Moustakas and Duffy still have the potential to be enormously valuable, and if either pans out in any way, it will be a good draft. Aside from Holland -- who is a nice bit player but has limited value as a reliever -- the rest of the top ten was shockingly bad. Or maybe not, given how most draft picks go. Ortiz, Cruz, and Richardson were all position players who simply never hit, despite flashing tremendous tools. Runion, Fieckert, and Kenyon are all standard issue busted pitching prospects.
Outside the top 10, some notable names remain. Many people are quite keen on the 11th round pick, David Lough, who has become an internet favorite. Lough hit well at AA in 2009, and he's followed that up with a good year at AAA (.310/.359/.481) in 2011. He doesn't have a clear place in the Royal outfield, but he's almost certain to make the Major Leagues at some point.
25th round pick Clint Robinson is the other find from this draft, and even if he never makes the Major Leagues, he's already been a successful pick. At the very least, he has trade value on the minor league market right now. Robinson has hit from the beginning, and his 2010 numbers at AA were eye-opening, even though he's never been loved by the prospect hounds. He's been good, not great, in the hitter friendly PCL this season (.320/.396/.516). As with Lough, I'm not sure he has a future with the Royals, especially since 1B/DH looks completely locked down for the next five years, but he's a good bet to get a shot with a bad team at some point. I hope, at least.
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Not to nitpick
But I have a pretty clear memory that the official story was that there was an agreement between the Royals, the Braves and Moore that he would not be involved in the deliberations on the #1 overall selection (Hochevar) but he could be involved in the rest of the draft. At least it feels like a clear memory. At my age things are slipping….
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by Scott McKinney on Aug 19, 2011 10:05 AM EDT reply actions
From what I remember he only
did not participate on the first pick. I’ll see if I can get the full story.
I remember it that way
But if you were interviewing a prospective GM wouldn’t you ask “We have the first pick, who would you take?”. And if you ended up hiring him, there’s a pretty good chance you’d take the guy he suggested, even if he can’t officially be in the room.
I remember we were told that Deric Ladnier ran that draft. But I also remember that supposedly DM wouldn’t take the job unless the Glasses started spending on the draft, scouting, LA, adding a minor league team, etc.
And then the Royals drafted Hochevar, a Boras client who blew off the previous draft and played independent ball. The kind of prospect that they had stayed a mile away from the way they drafted pre-Dayton.
I could be wrong, but I doubt that he had nothing to do with picking Hoch.
I also wouldn’t be surprised if he offered Greinke for Frenchy that first summer. So yes, it could be worse than 2 yrs 13.5mil.
by thelaundry on Aug 19, 2011 3:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 1 recs
In an interview a few weeks ago
DM said that the team asked him who he preferred between Hochevar and Andrew Miller, the two guys they were considering with the #1 pick. He said he had concerns about injuries for Miller and had Hochevar rated higher.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
also from that interview
I think he said neither would be available to the Braves anyways, so his input really wouldn’t have an effect on the Braves 1st round selection.
the more i think about it...
the braves just didnt want him to take heyward….they absolutely loved him and had their scouts hiding in the woods and shit to watch him play
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 19, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
I doubt he offered Greinke
He traded a number of pitchers in 2006 (Macdougal, Affeldt, Bautista, Howell). If he wanted to get rid of Greinke, I have no doubt he would have been gone.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Depends on how Hochevar is performing at the time
Unless I'm wrong...
by Top Ramen on Aug 19, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Not sure I'm going to agree with the Holland assessment....
“Holland — who is a nice bit player but has limited value as a reliever…”
At this point, Holland has been spectacular this season, and thus far appears to be a long-term solution as a solid bullpen arm, if not more.
I’d still like the Royals to consider trying at least 2 of the following 3 as SPs over the off-season: Soria, Crow, Holland
/tweeting.... @displacedsptsfn
I agree about Holland as a SP.
I say give both Crow and Holland a shot at starting; move them back to the pen if it doesn’t work. I actually think Holland would have a better chance than Crow of being successful in the rotation; better stuff and throws four pitches, I think.
But Holland has always been a reliever
You run the risk of serious injury’s upping his workload if he has never done it before. And you have to limit his innings the first few years.
Perhaps he was referring to the fact that pretty much all non-closer relievers have limited value
Maybe 1.5 WAR in a really good season.
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by Scott McKinney on Aug 19, 2011 10:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Right, and for a pitcher in his role, that's about his ceiling
And I don’t know that we can expect him to pitch at this level going forward, but it is possible
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by Scott McKinney on Aug 19, 2011 12:18 PM EDT up reply actions
could be right
there just aren’t many long-term bullpen solutions, ever, however
most guys have a few good years then flame out
10th round
Would getting 2.5-4.5 WAR career out of the 10th round be a win?
by spamiam79 on Aug 19, 2011 1:05 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
sure
but that is not inconsistent with the statement that Holland is “a nice bit player but has limited value as a reliever.”
What if he becomes the closer?
Between Holland, Crow, Herrera, and Coleman, who needs Soria?
by royal_in_cincinnati on Aug 19, 2011 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
That's not likely to happen any time soon
Even if it did, it only bumps up his value by a little — he would likely get a little boost in value due to leverage, but his innings would remain the same (or go down slightly as closer often get held back for save situations). Soria’s average WAR per season is only around 1.8.
Kenyon
Didn’t sign with the Royals and played baseball at Iowa.
Pitched in 17 games in relief as a senior in 2011, 4.63 ERA (Iowa website didn’t list innings pitched).
Couldn’t find (read: didn’t try very hard) if he was drafted this year.
But yeah, guy drafted in 9th round became mediocre Big Ten reliever.
You're not your f**king khakis.
by Settles'7thYearOfEligibility on Aug 19, 2011 10:39 AM EDT reply actions
He was not
Turned down $300K to go to school. But I read an interview with him in 2010 where he said he had no regrets. So there’s that.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Aug 19, 2011 11:07 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
I would have regretted the shit out of that decision
by Sweep_the_Leg on Aug 19, 2011 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions
300K... so like 200K after taxes...
assuming he got a full ride to Iowa, which he probably didn’t….
hmm…
One could also argue that with the Royals he would have had a better career
Repeatable mechanics least. That seemed like a big problem for him.
This is an overlooked point too
You can always go back to school as a failed 24 year old former minor leaguer. Then you can be that guy who buys beer for those without fake ID’s.
Obviously, you are not a golfer.
And the life of a Minor Leaguer
Who isn’t a super bonus baby is a pretty shitty one…
Edgar knows best.
(216th overall) OF- Hilton Richardson: One a million speedy CFs we’ve seen in the system, at all levels, since Moore took over. Richardson posted a .500 something OPS at A-ball last season and now is… wait for it… in Atlanta’s system.
He’s actually at Boise State attempting to become a WR. Here’s the story.
Too bad he didn't go to Miami/Auburn/etc,
maybe the Royals could have gotten some money back.@@
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Aug 19, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions
Was going to correct this one as well.
The guy’s a beast. Never played football, so he’s probably going to sit out a year.
sort of a practice player?
I wonder if thats possible. market inefficiency
Obviously, you are not a golfer.
Holland has Closer stuff
He might just be the future closer of the contending Royals. Who knows if Soria’s issues are injury related or the short shelf life of a closer.
Hilton Richardson might be a stud NFL WR someday. SO FAST! SO BIG!
by royal_in_cincinnati on Aug 19, 2011 11:13 AM EDT reply actions
When does Mitch Maier start getting expensive?
He made his MLB debut as early as 2006, but of course has been riding the I-29 Royals express quite a bit before becoming a permanent KC bench warmer. With the Frenchy extension, I’m guessing Lough is likely to take his place when Mitch enters his arb years.
Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!
Maybe 2013, maybe never
Maier is eligible for arbitration the first time this offseason. As a bench player, he likely will remain pretty cheap — maybe $800,000 this year, and similar raises for the two years after that. Teams, however, do not like paying bench players more than a $1 million, so based strictly on money (and not considering roster construction), I would guess the Royals would transition him out after 2012.
But if the Royals keep the same outfield starters and plan to use Cain as the fourth outfielder (and maybe Dyson as fifth outfielder/pinch runner), I would guess the Royals would cut Maier loose this year (either through minor trade or non-tender), not because of his salary, but for lack of roster spot.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2011 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Didn't I hear Moore say Kyle Davies had more value to the Royals than other teams?
Except in rare situations, GMs only say nice things about their own players.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
we shouldnt ever find out...dyson should be the 4th OF
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 19, 2011 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions
Lough is a better all around player
Dyson has the speed which seems to make him a better defender in most people’s minds. Although I saw Lough play only one time in RF and he was pretty good. Even robbed a bomb.
pretty good in RF is not the equivalent of dyson in CF....
melky or cain or whoever’s in center could move to RF and then you’re improving two positions…not to mention the fact that dyson can be used to turn billy or whoevers singles into doubles…lough isnt really an upgrade at any skill over any of the current/next years OF
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 20, 2011 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions
The Best System Ever
…and we’re arguing over David Lough vs. Jarrod Dyson…
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 20, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
well...i guess its a good sign...
all the rest of the positions are filled with legitimate major leaguers…and well…the pitching is depressing
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 20, 2011 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions
Can we stop pretending David Lough is good?
Once you adjust for the league, he’s been roughly average in AAA the last two years with the bat. He’s a corner outfielder. True, he rarely strikes out, but his power isn’t impressive and his walk rate in a hitters league looks like Jeff Francoeur’s in the majors.
He looked promising in 2009, for sure. But the last couple years in AAA have not been kind.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2011 12:30 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
yeah, Lough either needed to improve the bat or play CF
He will be 26 next year, so he is becoming long-in-the-tooth for “prospect” status. Depending on other moves, he might lose his 40-man roster spot.
by Gopherballs on Aug 19, 2011 12:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Even if he could play center
I still think he’d just be a fourth OFer. So without it…
It’s really too bad.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2011 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions
I always heard doubts about his abilities in CF
he got the “possible tweener” tag pretty early on. If the Royals thought he could play center, they would have left him there.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2011 8:56 PM EDT up reply actions
That doesn't hold any weight though.
They didn’t think DDJ could play center so they moved him to a corner. They have since employed Melky in CF…can they really believe Melky is a CF while Dejesus isn’t?
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
they have a full outfield right now...
dejesus had nobody who was as good or better to block him in the corner…it made sense and didnt hurt his value b/c he was awesome in left
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 19, 2011 11:22 PM EDT up reply actions
But he was better in center than any of the guys they used.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
but he was more valuable in left than in center
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 20, 2011 1:39 AM EDT up reply actions
Not to the team when you're playing a guy in CF that isn't as good.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Aug 20, 2011 9:01 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
they were playing absolute shit in LF too
so putting Davey where he was actually more valuable on his own makes sense
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by billybeingbilly on Aug 20, 2011 12:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Without getting further into the second point about the Royals
I remember reading early on from guys (I think, maybe I’m ‘misremembering’) from non-Royals sources that Lough wasn’t much of a CF.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 20, 2011 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
I believe this year they are identical
both bad, and sadly, it’s about the best for both
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Aug 19, 2011 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions
What is a reasonable expectation for how a draft should turn out?
Any studies on how many MLB/AAA players a typical draft produces?
Just a WAG
But if you get one guy that becomes a solid starter for at least 3-4 years, and maybe 2-3 other nice part timers (bullpen guys, bench guys, guys that start for one year), that’s a pretty good draft.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
+1
BA gives high grades for drafts if you get 3 big leaguers from a draft especially if one could be an above average 3B and potentially good LH. I haven’t given up on Lough even though he won’t get a shot in KC. He is still behind Cain and Dyson with Omaha and Myers coming up behind him. Guys like Lough can have long careers in the right setting.
Basically from talking to scouts
The first 5 rounds are guys you think should be in a big league uniform at some point. If you don’t hit on at least five it’s disappointing.
Now that’s from one of them, I’m sure other people have standards that are different but that is from a Royals scout.
So given that criteria,
has the organization ever had a draft that was not disappoiting? What is the likelihood of doing so? I’m not arguing, just curious about whether that “scout’s” opinion holds true.
by Rufus R. Jones on Aug 21, 2011 3:13 AM EDT up reply actions
i dont know
I will have to look back at drafts and see. Im trying out the internet on the DROID x 22 so forgive me for not looking yet.
by 306008 on Aug 21, 2011 10:08 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Mitch Hodge and Runion were total disasters
Runion especially given that he was an overdraft and talent like Stanton and J. Zimmerman was about to come off the board. I forget his name, but our scouting director was fired at the end of the 2008 signing period.
Deric Ladnier
He was always reaching on 2nd rounders: Runion, Roscoe Crosby, Jason Taylor, twice taking catchers (Mike Tonis and Adam Donachie). Out of all of them, I only liked the 2004 (Billy Buckner and Eric Cordier) and 2005 (Bianchi) picks, even though injuries hurt Cordier and Bianchi and Buckner didn’t really work out (although he was turned for Callaspo who was turned for Will Smith, so the jury is still out, I guess). When Shane Costa is the most accomplished major leaguer you got in the second round in your tenure, your tenure was not very good.
Not relevant to anything: Ladier was also a Royals minor leaguer for several seasons in the 80’s and early 90’s.
It's all ball bearings these days!
by CentralChamps20?? on Aug 26, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
wait for it... in Atlanta's system.
Thought he was playing football for Boise State.
“Aside from Holland — who is a nice bit player but has limited value as a reliever”
You are good for laughs.
“the rest of the top ten was shockingly bad. Or maybe not, given how most draft picks go.”
So how does Moore’s first draft compare to other teams that year? Three players on the big league team seems pretty good in four years, especially as the three seem legitimate rather than just short-term filler and especially as the scouting and personnel departments were in the process of being built up from total disaster.
i dont think will was particularly negative in this piece...
yeah…the braves jokes get old…but oh well…
relievers do have limited value and until the royals actually put holland in the rotation, his ceiling is probably 2 WAR.
as far as the scouting and personnel departments being rebuilt…dayton had been on board for a year…that shouldnt be an excuse
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Aug 20, 2011 2:25 PM EDT up reply actions






















