Ned Yost's Little League Moments
by Freneau on Sep 25, 2011 12:39 AM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
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A few days ago, Ned Yost told the official site this:
"I'm going to play Melky until he gets 201, I'm not stopping at 200," Yost said. "I want 201."
I love the idea that it's the stats geeks online that have bastardized the game, that it's the bloggers and tweeters who have some slanted vision of the game, who have misplaced priorities and expectations. Not quite.
Rather than caring about a) winning or b) playing other players, Ned Yost wants Melky Cabrera to get 200 hits. Why? Because 70 years ago people cared about getting 200 hits, even though hits are a pretty meaningless counting stat that obscure more information than they convey and that, well, 200 is just a nice round number. Yay!
I thought the pursuit of individual stats was anathema to all true sporting men, something that no true winning team cared about? Obviously, that's just more old-school doublespeak. We hate the pursuit of individual accomplishments, until we don't.
Earlier this summer, when Royals' telecasts were dominated by shots and interviews of parents, sisters, girlfriends, grandparents, high school friends, people they talked to in the airport, I felt like the whole production was Little League.
The TV crew isn't alone.
And why do we care about Melky Cabrera getting 200 hits? Are the Royals trying to make him more expensive in arb? Was promising to give him the CF job and essentially saving his career not good enough?
Quite frankly, the Royals don't owe Melky Cabrera unlimited playing time to pursue a meaningless personal accomplishment that is neither relevant or even historically interesting.
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If hit 201 is what it takes to get more teams interested in trading for Melky this offseason, I’m with Yost.
The only GM stupid enough to be impressed by 201 hits...
already has Melky Cabrera on his team.
by moregritplease on Sep 24, 2011 4:32 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
Bah humbug!
200 hits are still significant. It’s only happened a handful of times in the franchise’s history and is hard to do. Melky’s had a good year—better than all reasonable expectations—and has been enjoyable to root for. I like him despite his flaws and I hope that this season has revived his career. I’m increasingly convinced that this is his last week as a Royal, so let him get the number. It’s a strange fight to pick.
by billexgordler on Sep 24, 2011 4:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions 7 recs
I root for him begrudgingly...
I don’t like him… I hate that he basically refuses to slide, I hate the way he throws a baseball back into the infield sidearm while falling backwards on one foot.
I just don’t like the guy, I hate the cocky way he acts like he doesn’t catch a ball on the road, only to toss it into the crowd…. among other things.
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Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Sep 24, 2011 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions
he's definitely in the category of...
“he would be unbelievably annoying if he was on another team, but hey he’s a royal”
he does many jerky things out there that are somewhere between annoying and just bizarrely childlike… the fake catches, the posing and pointing on HRs, etc
but apparently he is someone the Royals must accommodate in all things, so its all good
I actually like Melky -- Toronto hating him sealed it for me (a hilarious WTF moment)
still don’t think the organizations needs to go out of the way to get him 200 hits
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
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by Matt Klaassen on Sep 24, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
“Quite frankly, the Royals don’t owe Melky Cabrera unlimited playing time to pursue a meaningless personal accomplishment that is neither relevant or even historically interesting.”
On the other hand, baseball is an entertainment industry and it’s supposed to be fun for fans and players, and the pursuit of 5 more hits doesn’t hurt anyone at all. This was one cranky blog post.
by kcdc1 on Sep 24, 2011 4:25 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
The fans want Alex Gordon to play over Melky.
Cranky? Yes. Mostly accurate? Also yes.
by moregritplease on Sep 24, 2011 4:35 PM EDT up reply actions
There's good reason to be cranky about Cain not playing
He needs the experience in order to develop, as he clearly has nothing left to prove at the AAA level. Yost’s priorities are not in order.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 5:12 PM EDT up reply actions
Yost has said he's playing Cain every day till the end of the year
I thought this was a Gordon complaint….and Gordon has the flu
So who is going to be benched over the rest of the season if Cain really is going to play everyday?
Gordon won’t have the flu for the remainder of the season….or will he?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Ned seems to think so
Yost said Gordon is unlikely to play in Sunday’s series finale and might see limited duty, if he plays at all, in next week’s season-ending series at Minnesota.
"We’ll take it day by day," Yost said, "but Alex doesn’t have anything else to prove"
http://www.kansascity.com/2011/09/24/3164467/mazzaro-getting-a-look-as-a-possible.html
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Now that's convenient
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by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 7:01 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't understand how anyone could get worked up about Melky playing a couple extra games to hit a round number
It’s a little silly, but it’s fun. Cain will play every day. Gordon will miss a few days with illness, Francoeur will get benched once, and Melky will probably be benched if he gets to 201 before the last game.
If I think it's the wrong decision, does that mean I'm "worked up" over it?
Should we only comment on the really big issues? If so, then all of these fansites and blogs are going to have to shut down.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 7:06 PM EDT up reply actions
What's wrong about it?
That Melky might steal a game from Gordon and one from Frenchy?
I'm worked up about it because it's more of the same idiotic reasoning that the organization continues to use.
And the fact that they embrace it so openly on this occasion reminds me that the organization will continue to sabotage itself in dozens of little ways as it’s collection of talent grows into a contender.
by CompmanJX3 on Sep 25, 2011 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 5 recs
+1
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Sep 25, 2011 12:25 PM EDT up reply actions
200 hits is a number, not an indicator
Like a .300 average. It says something without really indicating anything.
We should trade for Vance Worley.
What's Ned going to do on September 29?
It’d be a shame if he ends it at 199.
by Royal from Queens on Sep 24, 2011 4:27 PM EDT reply actions
Petition Selig for an extension
or an “*”
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 24, 2011 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Was promising to give him the CF job and essentially saving his career not good enough?
I think Melky revived his career on his own. Sure the Royals promised playing time in December of 2010 but doesn’t mean some other team would have given him a chance.
by Royal from Queens on Sep 24, 2011 4:29 PM EDT reply actions
well, we're on promise number 2
for a guy with no connection or longevity with the organization
i cant wait to see what happens when Melky doesn’t want to be traded, or doesnt want to shift to a corner, or doesnt want to hit blank in the order….
I didn't like the Melky signing
And I still don’t like the constant love he gets on the broadcasts but if I"m being fair, he’s having a good year.
He’s only 2 years older than Lorenzo Cain and with Melky already having completed a successful year why do the Royals owe Lorenzo Cain anything?
I guess what I’m trying to say is, why can’t Francouer just go away?
by Royal from Queens on Sep 24, 2011 4:41 PM EDT reply actions
not a bad point...
the mandatory playing of Francoeur… I mean, whatever, but at least he’s locked up long term now
the royals are treating melky like hes a franchise cornerstone that’s been around forever and will be for years to come
he’s got one arb year left
I have to disagree with you on the Royals thinking Melky will be here long-term
The most logical reason for this obsession with 200 hits is that they’re trying to pump up his trade value for the offseason. Combine that with Dayton’s statements that they’ll try to trade an outfielder for pitching help.
I think they’ll try to move Melky, I just don’t think they’ll be able to.
by moregritplease on Sep 24, 2011 4:50 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Dayton also admitted
He wouldn’t have signed Melky if he pulled off the Greinke trade earlier.
by Royal from Queens on Sep 24, 2011 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
I guess...
the fact is, there’s loads of evidence the royals are super gun shy on trading away guys. i dont know why dayton wouldt trade him at mid-season, when he knew the royals couldnt win in 2011, but he will NOW
especially once we turn to spring and people start thinking the royals can compete in 2012
Except
Podsednik, Callaspo, Farnsworth, and Ankiel, all traded at last year’s deadline. Other than that, they never trade guys like Melky.
by Gordon Soy on Sep 24, 2011 5:03 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Melky has perfromed quite well
Much, much better than the others you listed above. And all of those guys were traded at the deadline with expiring contracts. Melky has a full year left of team control. Maybe Moore would be willing to trade him in July. Maybe.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 5:15 PM EDT up reply actions
And This The
Place he's most likely to get more
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Sep 24, 2011 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions
Our Typing Fingers
Are functioning flawlessly, a la Getz
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Sep 24, 2011 6:13 PM EDT up reply actions
DDJ would be the parallel to Melky
OF with one year arb year left. I guess we learned that Moore won’t trade those guys.
One example proves the rule?
Aren’t there many more that he hasn’t traded?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Players heading into their last year of team control who could have been traded but weren't?
The claim seemed to be that these guys are never traded, but you only have to look back in the last year to find lots of examples to the contrary.
As far as examples other than DDJ, I’m not sure. I’m pretty sure nobody was going to take JoGui on. Going back a little farther, maybe maybe Grudzielanek right after he signed his extension? Between Moore’s penchant for 1-year contracts and the lack of quality players reaching the end of their arb years with the Royals, there haven’t been a ton of examples to draw a conclusion either way.
Yeah because those guys were totally on the same level as melky, being shitty replacement level players and all
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Do you think MLB front offices are moved by meaningless milestones like 200 hits?
I don’t think ANY MLB FO is that stupid.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 5:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Maybe the Giants
Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2006: Royals win% = .420, Chiefs win% = .354
by averagegatsby on Sep 24, 2011 5:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Grit for Nerds
This is worse than Whitlock’s column. In fact, it makes me think he might be more right than wrong.
Who gives a shit if Yost wants to get Melky 200 hits? It may seem like a Little League move, but bitching about it at this point of this season, when there’s so much more Royals fans should be talking about makes you the Yost/Whitlock equivalent of NerdDom.
by Gordon Soy on Sep 24, 2011 4:42 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
What do you think we should be talking about?
Maybe you don’t follow this site very much, but pretty much all Royals-related subjects have been discussed to death here already. Everything’s a remix.
by moregritplease on Sep 24, 2011 4:45 PM EDT up reply actions
You're right...
…there’s a ton of great chatter here, which is why I read regularly. This article just rubbed me the wrong way, I guess, and I don’t understand the sentiment behind it.
So meaningless milestones really are important?
Why? Because they make fans like you feel good? Because it will make Melky’s beautiful smile even more sparkly?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Trades With Texas!
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Sep 24, 2011 6:09 PM EDT up reply actions
While I doubt there will be any benefits to Melky's oral hygiene...
I do think it makes some fans feel good. I know for a fact my non-saber friends want to see these things accomplished. I know my father was excited about Frenchy’s 20/20 HR. Sure, it is silly in one way, but the old school mentality of baseball will always permeate the game on some level. It still does HEAVILY on television media analysis outlets.
The bottomline is: if going for an “arbitrary” or “meaningless” milestone makes some people happy (and it will), and it has no downside, why crap on it? To be honest, the number isn’t even arbitrary. Hits obviously aren’t the end all, be all in winning—but 200 is a vaguely rare accomplishment. It is a very even and appealing figure that the OCD part of my brain loves (201 makes me cringe a little, Ned—stop giving lofty goals).
by dejezeus on Sep 24, 2011 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
I think fans care about some milestones (mostly involving HR's)
I really don’t think they care much about 200 hits or 100 runs scored.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 6:45 PM EDT up reply actions
"meaningless" to whom?
You, obviously. And others here. But not meaningless to the player or the organization. If the number has meaning to the folks affected by it, then there is no harm in striving for it. I’m sure there are milestone numbers that aren’t meaningless to you. Just because 200 hits doesn’t cross your own personal threshold for meaning doesn’t make it universally true.
by billexgordler on Sep 24, 2011 8:15 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions
as i've said many times...
if you want to read non-stop positive and EVERYTHING IS AWESOME royals material
you’ve got plenty of options
Who said I want non-stop positive?
This article is beneath you. That’s all.
I think it's beyond you
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 5:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Isn't non stop positive just as annoying
As non stop negative? And no, there aren’t any options even close to the quality of this site.
Turning Kool-Aid to Jesus Juice since 2009.
by Discodave on Sep 24, 2011 7:20 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Who gives a shit if Cain gets the MLB experience he needs to continue his development?
I do. I think you should too. That is certainly more important than a completely meaningless milestone number.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 5:16 PM EDT up reply actions
You don't see the Oakland A's doing something stupid like playing David DeJesus over Michael Taylor
I don’t think the situation is worth getting worked up about.
I don’t think 5 games is a big deal. Cain should have been here in April or May but the seasons over and I don’t think the remaining games are going to make any kind of impact one way or another in Cain’s career. If this was written in May, I’d be all aboard that train but it’s September 24 with a few games left.
by Royal from Queens on Sep 24, 2011 6:02 PM EDT up reply actions
To be fair
That’s an argument that made sense weeks or months ago. Not like you get any real info in two weeks. I would have liked to see Cain in June or July. At this point, I don’t see why anyone would be upset with allowing a player to try to get to 200 hits. It may not be the most important thing in the stats world, but I’m pretty confident it means something to Melky, and probably to other players on the team. So if a manager wants to reward a player for having a good season, I’m not going to find a lot of reason to complain about it.
by Royals fanatic on Sep 24, 2011 6:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Scott, it seems very odd for you to argue that five games makes a meaningful differnce
It was wrong not to trade away an OF earlier and promote Cain, but are five games of “development” this week really any more meaningful that Melky’s 200th hit?
Whatever happens over 5 games is a very small matter
I dont think this is catastrophic. But if Cain doesn’t play in every game, it will be a mistake, and show that Moore/Yost don’t get it (as if we didn’t know already). Yes, that play is more important than Melky’s 200th hit, as I see absolutely no value in that milestone.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 6:47 PM EDT up reply actions
To me the parallel is shutting down Francis last week
I didn’t really understand it. It seemed to be doing something for the benefit of the player which doesn’t help the team at all. I thought you thought it was a perfectly defensible thing to do — helps with the Royals reputation among MLB players and all that.
Here, we have Melky starting over Mitch in hopes of reaching a milestone that presumably matters to him (otherwise, why would Yost talk about it). There’s no benefit to the franchise (unless you count some sort of marketing to casual fans) but no harm either, even if it was coming at the expense of Cain (which, so far, it is not). Why do you feel differently about the two situations?
At first I thought the Francis decision was stupid, but you convinced me to be indifferent. I’m perplexed that you don’t feel the same here.
I didn’t really understand it. It seemed to be doing something for the benefit of the player which doesn’t help the team at all. I thought you thought it was a perfectly defensible thing to do — helps with the Royals reputation among MLB players and all that.
Yes, I saw a real benefit there. Players coming off injury don’t want to go to a team who is going to ride them hard and pump up their innings unncessarily when the team is playing out the string. Is the “benefit” of helping Melky get 200 hits comparable? I don’t think so, not for a second. I didn’t feel indifferent about the Francis shutdown. I thought it was a good move because there was a clear (but not huge) positive there and no downside. I see absolutely no value to the team in a minor milestone like 200 hits. Is it going to make Melky happier and thus play better for the remainder of this season or next year? I don’t buy it. I think the suggestion is silly on its face.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 7:05 PM EDT up reply actions
I'm not seeing the difference
Players coming off injury don’t want to go to a team who is going to ride them hard and pump up their innings unncessarily when the team is playing out the string.
How is this different than letting free agents pursue personal goals in the last five games of a lost season?
Neither has any value to the team except in the pursuit of future free agents.
If there’s a distinction that you’re drawing here, I can’t see it.
by KSinDC on Sep 25, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
I think players coming off injury really care about how a team is going to use him (especially an SP and how many IP’s they are going to give him). I don’t think FA’s care much about whether a team is going to help them hit minor milestones like 200 hits.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 25, 2011 7:35 AM EDT up reply actions
I don't really see how that applies to the particulars
Francis had a single start skipped. Melky is going to play in maybe two games more than he would otherwise. Both incredibly minor in the context of a full season. Neither of them had any agreement that was public at the beginning of the season, and Ned didn’t reference any specific agreement in announcing the decision.
I just don’t see the distinction, except one is part of a larger pattern and one is contrary, so one gets highlighted and one gets minimized.
for me... the actual final 4 games and what happens are irrelevant and meaningless...
it’s the mentality of Yost that annoys me
Exactly
This is a small symptom of a larger Moore/Yost problem.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 10:14 PM EDT up reply actions
hah, fuck you
SBN's most random and mysterious lurker guy who posts too much
Follow me on Twitter if you want: Lum_SM
by Lum on Sep 25, 2011 1:53 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Agree 100%
If you want to play him then fine, whatever. But to make a make a big production about him getting 200, and that he won’t sit until he does?
It'll be worth it for all the positive PR on Baseball Tonight when he gets it.
Edgar knows best.
Yost sucks
Chasing 200 hits when he probably doesn’t even know or care about Melky’s OBP.
Saves, hits, runs created.
What the NFL labor dispute needs is a modern-day Robin Hood
"Saves, hits, runs created"
Runs created? Uh, one of these things doesn’t belong.
Though if someone said “runs created” to Yost, he would say “Yeah, runs.” So…fair evaluation.
I think he's referring to Dayton's "runs created" stat
I think he called it something like that: Runs scored + RBI = runs created.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 24, 2011 7:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Ha! I hadn't heard of that.
Kind of depressing, kind of entertaining. After a couple hours, it will mostly be the former.
Yeah I was droppin' the Dayton stat
Runs + RBIs = runs created. He mentioned that during what was essentially a sabermetreics roundtable, if memory serves.
What the NFL labor dispute needs is a modern-day Robin Hood
by big matt on Sep 24, 2011 11:51 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
Probably shouldn’t press Dayton too hard on this – he might get bigger and start using the Ron Polk system that Lee Judge has a disturbing obsession with.
by D.Szymborski on Sep 25, 2011 1:40 AM EDT up reply actions
“I’m going to play Mariano until he gets 602, I’m not stopping at 601,” Torre said. “I want 602.”
Joe Torre – May 17, 1996
by Royal from Queens on Sep 24, 2011 6:13 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Put me in the category
of who gives a fuck? I wasted 8 min of my time reading half of this thread. Then I said no more, am posting this, and moving on with life.
by Rufus R. Jones on Sep 24, 2011 11:21 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
It's just like the majority of people's thoughts on politics
“I hate your views and your opinions and you’re wrong to me, but am too lazy to care or think about it any further”
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How dare you criticize my favorite team's manager!
(Unless it’s about something really big and really obvious)
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 25, 2011 7:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Not sure why people are hating on this article
I guess the lure of traditional stats still looms. If the manager had said something like “I’m leaving him in until I can hopefully get his WAR above 4”, it would be just as stupid and nobody would have a problem with this article.
Kansas City Royals: your 2006 and 2007 NL Central champions!
so
how often does someone get legitimately taken out for a week with the flu? because it sounds like Ned is gonna make that happen with Gordon. But then again, we don’t want to risk that Alex Gordon is Patient Zero for a new form of superflu. Afterall, the Spanish Flu really spread out of Kansas. Maybe Gordon went to the Flu Museum and caught a dormant strain
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
I See No
Rational explanation for this move.
I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.
by philofthenorth on Sep 25, 2011 3:00 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on, let's give Moore and Yost the benefit of the doubt on this one
They've earned it.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 25, 2011 7:38 AM EDT up reply actions
I'm almost positive that Alex Gordon
gave Gweneth Paltrow that horrile bug that killed everyone in “Contagion.”
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
Who cares?
The problem isn’t that Melky’s playing time over the last six games is apparently untouchable. It’s that his playing time over the last six months has been untouchable. Utilizing a player who is very unlikely to still be here when/if this team is actually ready to contend instead of finding out if Cain can be part of the team once the winning starts happening is asinine. 200 hits is just the symptom. 700+ PAs is the disease.
I’m glad Melky has played well. I hope we can trade him for something good. If we fail to trade him for a piece that eventually helps this team contend, then this year was a net loss in CF.
This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.
by KC_Satchmo on Sep 25, 2011 9:07 AM EDT reply actions 3 recs
Ok, Dick Kagel is really bad at reading.
Melky has 199 hits right now not 196, so he only needs one hit to reach 200 hits by my math.
Go Royals!
oh I see that was not yesterday, nm.
Go Royals!
from Twitter
#Royals manager Ned Yost says OFs Alex Gordon and Jeff Francoeur unlikely to play again this season.
OF Melky Cabrera likely to be done after two more hits. Cain and Dyson playing for Gordon/Francoeur. Maier plays when Cabrera sits.
apparently Yost thinks the season is 154 games long
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
It is when the team is shitty
SBN's most random and mysterious lurker guy who posts too much
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