Are Coaching Staff Changes a Sign That Ned Yost is Here to Stay?
by Freneau on Sep 29, 2011 12:55 PM EDT
in Kansas City Royals News
Email
Print
Today the Royals announced that "bench coach John Gibbons and pitching coach Bob McClure will not be in the Kansas City dugout next season." Presumably, this is because they will not be allowed to come back, and not merely because the team has foreseen the future and believe that each man will die, disappear, or get very lost driving to Spring Training next season.
Gibbons and McClure were both holdovers, and their dismissal could be a sign that Yost has solidified himself in the organization and now wants to bring in, as they say, one of "his guys."
John -- "the ship is sinking" -- Gibbons was brought into help Hillman in between prayers and McClure had been around even longer.
Now, I've never been particularly good at One Royals Way Kremlinology, so this could simply be standard issue coaching staff churn. McClure, once, amazingly enough, considered something of a guru by Royals fans, had been pitching coach since 2006, and was credited with helping to turn around/stabilize/whatever Gil Meche in his initial good years with the Royals. McClure no longer has a reputation as a true difference maker as a pitching coach, but does anyone really think, as Yost seems to imply, that it was his fault the team walked so many people?
"Mac has done a great job," Yost said, "but the results are the results. They speak for themselves. It was a tough decision, but we just felt we needed a different voice. We’ve got to find a way to throw more strikes."
I'm not going to go all J'accuse on Yost for this, but... even disregarding the obvious point that maybe the manager should also be accountable, c'mon. Really? Maybe the walk total wouldn't have been so high if Yost didn't insert Tim Collins into every game.
Regarding Yost as a manager, I think the absolute lack of any criticism we've seen or heard regarding him points to a strengthened position. Trey Hillman, Dayton Moore's big gamble and attempt at an inspired hire, was tossed aside and eventually replaced by the utterly generic retread Yost.
It appears that Yost has moved from being the interim fill-in to an organizational mainstay relatively quickly. This could have just happened, or it could have been the plan all along.
And of course, things could also change. The Royals have talked big about 2012 for two years now. Yost is in place to be the guy to take the credit if it works, but he's also there to take the fall of the team starts 15-37 next season.
105 comments
|
1 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
Yost is meh
He’s ok…The only thing I tend to disagree on with him is the bullpen use
Alex Gordon is really good
Blaine Gabbert is really good
MJD is really good
Never forget Matt Treanor
by tiquanunderwear on Sep 29, 2011 12:58 PM EDT reply actions
That pales in comparison to the most indefensible thing he did all year -
which was putting Collins in with the bases loaded against Cleveland.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 29, 2011 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Gibbons...
…to me, will always be the guy who walked TPJ to get to DDJ.
If that guy is no longer in our dugout, it is probably a good thing.
by kcemigre on Sep 29, 2011 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
how would we measure crappy bullpen decisions?
for one thing, we can’t have the measurement be “expected result – minus results” because that means that good relievers with bad outings top the list.
Bringing in Mazzaro to face a lefty with the bases loaded has to rank up there for stupid decisions
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
The most indefensible thing he did all year that I know about was bat Chris Getz leadoff for a few games.
by Rufus R. Jones on Sep 29, 2011 2:57 PM EDT up reply actions
but it was only a few games and then he put clearly our best option there for the rest of the season...
and that best option was far from the traditional leadoff type
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 29, 2011 3:43 PM EDT up reply actions
he didn't do it this year, but please remember how many times he ran Jason K. out there
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
by buddyball on Sep 29, 2011 4:47 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
If the Royals win fewer than 78 games next year...
…everybody’s job is in danger. Moore, Yost, the groundskeeper, parking attendants, everybody.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
Ownership and the 20people named Glass in the org
…. Will be fine
by Freneau on Sep 29, 2011 1:04 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions 4 recs
Love it
I’m assuming you’ve seen the board of directors/staff page? I laughed out loud the first time I looked at it and saw all of the family members.
I loathe David Glass
well
I guess they won’t have a 5 year process to find a new owner again, unless some sort of family feud erupts
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
Richard Dawson runs up with a microphone and cops a feel
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
I expect several notices of name changes
over the winter.
by Black and Gold on Sep 29, 2011 2:39 PM EDT up reply actions
Oh yeah, you gotta have ownership
The straw that stirs the drink, if you will.
C. Montgomery Hunt: One of the greatest heroes in American history.
don't you mean
“everybody EXCEPT the peanut vendors”?
If strikeouts are indeed fascist - then find me some starters that believe in fascism
by loyal2sdad on Sep 29, 2011 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions 4 recs
And the beer vendors, as I expect their sales would have to remain strong
although one of the ushers told me this year that beer prices would be raised in 2012.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 29, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
On one hand,
global food prices have significantly spiked in the last few years. But when you look at how much beers at the K are marked up as it is…
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 29, 2011 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions
Beer prices at the ballpark
should fluctuate based on winning percentage. Maybe WP * 15. So if the team is playing .450 ball, a beer is $6.75. But if the team is at .530, then you’ll pay $7.95.
by Black and Gold on Sep 29, 2011 2:43 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
They're quite hardcore about people bringing in their own.
Once, I won a stadium contest and had to go to Guest Services to pick up my prize, and I could overhear the radio frequency being used by the security. They were planning a bust to eject some people who had BYOB’ed, and who had apparently already been warned.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 29, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
That's why Buck Nights are better known as
Airplane Bottle Nights.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Sep 29, 2011 2:54 PM EDT up reply actions
Or if the team is playing .314 ball
the prices should be lowered for the season ticket holders who paid their money to go watch the team. It’d be like buck night kind of. $2.50 beer for the fans of the crappy team!
SEC no longer stands for Southeastern Conference. It now stands for Several Entertaining Chiefs.
I'm not saying, I'm just sayin.
I'm sorry, man. You're on notice.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 29, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
I put most of the blame on the peanut vendors
critical spirits all
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Especially yours
…and your critical spirit.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 29, 2011 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions
Yost's contract is up after next year too
so either they extend him by Halloween, or they’re gonna see how 2012 starts before making a decision.
If this team is obviously on the road to falling behind the 2011 record by midseason, someone is probably getting fired. Unless they go 2011 Chiefs and have half the team out for the year by the 4th series.
Obviously the crucial thing is the starting pitching, and they have to either find or acquire that to fill the giant holes in the current rotation
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
I think the Royals manager position is becoming...
an attractive one. I would like to see someone else in there but I guess time will tell.
does this mean that McClure got boom yosted?
Anyways, yeah, pretty much agree with what’s already been said here. Don’t particularly like Yost, but my thought is that the manager really doesn’t make that much of a difference. You can look at several teams and see managers with great reputations fail, and ones with poor reputations have great success. So I don’t really care.
And then anyways, maybe the pitching was bad because the staff was generally really untalented? Just a thought.
SBN's most random and mysterious lurker guy who posts too much
Follow me on Twitter if you want: Lum_SM
by Lum on Sep 29, 2011 1:16 PM EDT via iPhone app reply actions
I was waiting for you to arrive in this thread....
….see my comment below.
The replacement will be an outside hire, apparently. I’m already wondering how much of a shake-up this will perpetuate on the coaching staff… particularly with regard to the pitching guys.
I really think they are changing philosophies on the pitching front
But to do it completely they have to move people along. People that do not fit what the organization is doing or who don’t believe in it. I think Dayton has held onto to many guys from the previous regime solely because they’ve been here for a long time.
I think this is one of the first steps to getting it all cleaned up and getting all his people in. Why he held on to them? I’m not sure. But he kept a lot of guys in positions for several years before moving along. There are a few more that I think will decide to move along in time.
As as few have said, I think the Royals started this philosophical change last year. Like you said below, it’ll be interesting to see what happens with the pitching side of things.
Do you know what comprises the "philosophical change"
Is it approach, training, scouting, all of the above?
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Sep 29, 2011 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions
requesting the cone of silence
[malfunction]
THIS IS THE BEST DAY OF MY LIFE
(The actor only known to me as Michael Scott)
McClure no longer has a reputation as a true difference maker as a pitching coach, but does anyone really think, as Yost seems to imply, that it was his fault the team walked so many people?
Some around here have thought that McClure is a significant source of our pitching woes for a while…
I’ll be interested to see if Bill Fischer is headed out the door, and if there are any major changes in philosophy regarding pitcher development. If so, I’d be more inclined to believe that this is more about substance than politics. Pitching obviously took a step back on the farm this year, and the MLB staff is still waiting for the cavalry to arrive. I don’t really know enough to speak knowledgeably about development, but I can see that there’s the possibility that the organization has lost its patience with what has been going on so far.
I missed this nugget
Rick Knapp, former Detroit Tigers pitching coach, was named Minor League pitching coordinator by the Royals on Wednesday.
by 306008 on Sep 29, 2011 1:55 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Know anything about him?
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 29, 2011 1:56 PM EDT up reply actions
Rick Knapp was the Tigers’ pitching coach from the start of the the 2009 season until this past July.
Clearly
Montgomery, Dwyer, and Lamb will now start pitching just as well as Verlander.
by Sweep_the_Leg on Sep 29, 2011 2:03 PM EDT up reply actions
we're bringing him in to
give our hitters the secret scouting reports on the Tigers starters
Follow me on Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/bhindepmo
Chairman, The Melky Cabrera Seasoning Sauce. It's great on your outfield!
by BHWick on Sep 29, 2011 2:05 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
"Verlander -- good"
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 29, 2011 3:52 PM EDT up reply actions 2 recs
so here are some changes already
Knapp replaces Mark Davis, the 1989 National League Cy Young Award winner who was the coordinator for one season. Davis will remain in the Royals’ organization as a pitching coach.
and the best comment of the day - a la Royals home page comments is this
No, I want McClure to stay where he is. You cannot blame McClure for the pitching. No one who has left the Royals has surfaced somewhere else a better pitcher. He’s a stable force, he managed the rookies well (look at Aaron Crow), and guys like Hochevar have gotten better. Pitchers take longer to develop except for the fluke prospect. And they have to have the talent to begin with.
NEVER blame the coach
Alex Gordon is really good
Blaine Gabbert is really good
MJD is really good
Never forget Matt Treanor
by tiquanunderwear on Sep 29, 2011 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions
Its not McClure's fault that everybody refuses to throw the ball over the freaking plate.
They might as well start every AB with a 1-0 count.
NO ONE
“…Who is not named Kyle Farnsworth has left the team and surfaced elsewhere as a better pitcher.”
For that matter, how many pitchers are leaving the Royals that are good enough to make the roster on another MLB team?
Phil Humber disagrees
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Oct 1, 2011 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't know if it's the real Mike McCartney tweeting.
But maybe it will happen… Jason Kendall. Bench coach.
by WURoyal on Sep 29, 2011 2:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Write it down.
The Kendall thing will happen. He will be bench coach/whoever bats 2nd in the order coach.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Sep 29, 2011 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions
Tim Belcher has resigned as Indians pitching coach
To spend more time with his family. Which in Buddy Bell-speak means “to take a job with a division rival.”
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
Belcher is an original red ass
like Nolan Ryan but with WAY less talent.
by stram#1 on Sep 29, 2011 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
It's about time
For Teflon Bob. The Royals led the AL in walks for the third time in his six year tenure. Their average ERA was 4.81 to a league average 4.35, 13th out of 14 teams. (Thank You Baltimore)
I can’t believe the quote above that gave him credit for Hochevar. Yes, Hochevar had a good finish, (3.52 ERA in his last 12 starts- he threw more quickly and threw more sliders) but even if he was “fixed” (Yost’s words) I think it would be an indictment of Mcclure that it took so long if it was a simple fix. (I am not yet convinced that he is fixed, although I am hopeful. He still has the same ERA as a Royals starter as Kyle Davies at 5.34, and had to have the good finish to match him. Kyle had an 11 start, 3.60 ERA run to end the 2008 season, so it is not unprecedented for a bad pitcher to have a nice run. They both had 73 decisions as Royals, with Luke winning 1 more game than Kyle)
As far as the comments about Yost’s handling of the bullpen, I think that while Yost, as the manager, had the final decision, the bullpen moves are usually handled or suggested by the pitching coach. Even after he is gone, Teflon Bob still escapes blame.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
Is Bob McClure responsible for the pitching talent on the team?
Because I have this feeling that the talent of the players is a big part of why the Royals had a 4.81 ERA. And it’s not like the Royals have had very talented pitching staffs over the last 6 years. And people complain about McClure not fixing Hochevar. Was he fixable? Would another pitching coach have fixed him, helped him or improved him more than McClure has? If so, what makes you think that. Lots of pitchers with talent don’t pan out in the majors. And I really don’t think that’s usually because the pitching coach didn’t mould the player into something great.
Seitzer didn’t fix Kila. When’s he getting fired?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 29, 2011 4:29 PM EDT up reply actions
I can't believe McClure was telling our pitchers to walk people instead of throwing strikes
fire the son of a bitch!
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
Mcclure has been given credit
by some people for Hochevar’s turnaround. No one ever tried to give Seitzer credit for Kila. (I have not heard him mentioned that much in regard to Cabrera, Gordon, and Frenchy either.) It is a crap comparison. I don’t know if anyone could have fixed Hochevar. There are an awful lot of people who think he is more talented than I do. But the fact is that people gave Mcclure credit for something Yost termed “a simple fix” that happened in his 85th start and 5th season under Mcclure.
Mcclure has been the pitching coach for 2 GM’s and 3 Managers. He is the last holdover from the final 100 loss season. (Unless you want to count Mitch’s September cup of coffee that year. All three managers have been criticized for their handling of the bullpen as well as the starters. Mcclure is what they all had in common. There have been at least 3 instances during his tenure, that I know of, when other teams, the media, guys on blogs, and the man in the street were talking about Royal’s pitchers tipping pitches before their own coach realized it.
Mcclure has had some talent. A Cy Young winner, a stud closer, some nice bullpens, Gil Meche before he blew up Gil’s arm. (Mcclure ran that pitching staff, not Trey) It has not been the second worst talent pool in the league over that period, and we don’t play in a hitter’s paradise either. The average ERA of the 12th ranked AL team is 4.47, so we are 13th by a long way. The league leads in walks were from 3 completely different staffs.
In short, he has sucked. He has sucked for a long time. He has done nothing, and deserved to be gone before now. Would another pitching coach do better? It depends on who they hire, but there is a much greater chance of improvement than there is of getting worse.
I enjoy reading your comments, but defending Mcclure is beneath you.
"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance
Also
You’re never going to be able to isolate the coach’s performance from the players’ talent. But teams have coaches and pay them well, and if the results aren’t matching expectations, you bring in a new guy and see if he does better. McClure’s staff has been crappy (and some would say underperforming) for a while now. It’s time to give someone new a shot.
But teams have coaches and pay them well, and if the results aren’t matching expectations, you bring in a new guy and see if he does better
Have the results for the Royals pitching staffs under McClure’s tenure performed worse than expectations? Were they talented pitching staffs that people expected to perform well? I certainly don’t remember that. Are we just talking about Hochevar? We certainly can’t be talking about Davis who arrived in KC as a pitcher with good stuff who had been failing consistently so far in the majors. He was a reclamation project and it’s not like people expected him to suddenly become good.
I’m not upset about replacing him. It just seems like ultra-simplistic thinking to blame poor hitting or pitching on the hitting or pitching coach. And really, the analysis I’ve seen of McClure hasn’t gone any deeper than that.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 29, 2011 6:41 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't blame all the poor pitching on him
but the walk numbers over his tenure have been terrible. And walks kill pitchers. Maybe they were all just guys who would never be able to throw strikes but giving the batter a chance to get himself out is a good start.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
…the analysis I’ve seen of McClure hasn’t gone any deeper than that.
Some of it has. The McClure thread from last month, which I linked up above (and again here) contains some of the argument I’m thinking about. You and Drew went back and forth quite a while there on some of this stuff. I don’t claim the expertise to draw independent conclusions on pitcher conditioning and whatnot, but Drew and Clint both made some decent points in that thread.
At the moment, I’m feeling cautiously optimistic about the possibility that something was amiss in the organization’s pitching program, and a change for the better is at least possible. I’ll be very curious to looking into the philosophy and approach of the next pitching coach. Maybe that will provide a clue. In the meantime, I’ll just stay cautiously optimistic.
but Drew and Clint both made some decent points in that thread.
About how they don’t like the minor league S&C program. They made no connection between that and the major league pitching coach, because there is none. The major league pitching coach does not set the organizational pitching program. He doesn’t create an organizational pitching pilosophy. He doesn’t set the training program. He coaches the major league pitchers. He might be consulted about other issues, but he’s not the decision maker. And if there’s a problem with how the Royals develop minor league pitchers, it lies with the decision makers, which are in the Royals front office, from J.J. Piccolo on down.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 9:34 AM EDT up reply actions
To be fair...
The strength and conditioning comments in that thread were applicable to both the ML staff and the guys in the minors. There were also comments about mechanics and some other coaching-related issues that applied to pitchers at all levels.
I also don’t know why we would assume one way or the other whether the ML pitching coach sets the organizational pitching philosophy. I’d be awful surprised if he doesn’t have any say in that process and it seems perfectly reasonable that he could actually have an awful lot of pull in that regard.
Ultimately, I don’t care whether he’s “the man” responsible for an overall philosophy or just one member of the brain trust that was putting a potentially dysfunctional system into practice. In either case, if the system was, in fact, dysfunctional, then there’s a solid chance that change is all for the good. There is also a solid chance that the firing of a pitching coach is going to be the most noticeable indicator that such change is taking place.
I’m simply acknowledging that all of the above may be true, and, more importantly at the moment, I’m pointing out that—whether you agree or disagree with them—there are those around here who have been critical of McClure for quite a while without doing the following:
It just seems like ultra-simplistic thinking to blame poor hitting or pitching on the hitting or pitching coach.
On a possibly-but-not-necessarily-related topic, does anyone know what happened to Bill Fischer when Rick Knapp was hired?
In short, he has sucked.
Maybe. Or maybe not. You’ve showed nothing that isolated McClure’s performance. I don’t think one can. You’re just assuming bad pitching = bad pitching coach.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 29, 2011 6:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, how can you even make the comparison.....
McClure = Pitching Coach for a staff that is…..
27th in ERA
27th in Quality Starts
26th in WHIP
27th in BAA.
Seitzer = Batting Coach for a staff that is….
4th in Batting Average
8th in OBP
7th in Slugging
10th in Runs Scored
So to recap – One Coach is in the in the Top 25% in categories that relate directly to his job…and the other coach is at the bottom 10 % in categories that relate directly to their job…
I can understand your logic in why Seitzer should be let go
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
by kd_in_kc on Sep 30, 2011 11:47 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Do you really not understand my point? There’s no way to isolate the coach’s contribution in a player’s performance. By all accounts, the Royals have had some awful pitchers. Is that because McClure didn’t coach them well? If so, prove it, or at least support it. I don’t think you can.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions
I don't need to prove it....becuase I see in the real world in business everday.
You have unproductive or poor management of a team of individuals and you are looked at for leadership and success. You don’t perform by getting your people to perform, someone else is brought in to take your place….period. That’s called business.
Like it or not, that is what it is….by your rational….Trey should still be managing (and praying) in the dugout game this season for the Royals….
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
At least we can actually see mistakes that a manager makes
What mistakes have you seen McClure make? It’s the pitchers and hitters that pitch and hit, not the coaches. Now coaches can help or hurt to some degree. But we really don’t know how much McClure or Seitzer have helped or hurt, do we?
Basically you’re saying if the pitching is bad, firing the pitching coach. Don’t think about it any deeper than that. Ok.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 12:16 PM EDT up reply actions
Ok, let me ask this....
How many years should a pitching coach be afforded to develop and maintain an “on par” pitching staff? On Par should be mean average for the division, league or worse all of MLB….
And again how do you attribute mistakes to a manager? What is your criteria for that?
He after all is just telling a player to go do something, and if the player doesn’t perform, it’s the players fault right?
We may just have to agree to disagree on this one. However I think McClure was given time to develop the players, and over the last 4 years, we have not seen significant improvement. I understand that we don’t have overpowering talent, and that pitchers come in and leave every season….Like every other team in the sport. No team has a starting 5 AND a bullpen simply stacked with overpowering / dominating pitchers.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
How many years should a pitching coach be afforded to develop and maintain an "on par" pitching staff? On Par should be mean average for the division, league or worse all of MLB….
I don’t think a pitching coach is the person who does that. A pitching coach can help and can improve some players, but the vast majority of developing an average or better pitching staff comes from the front office. It’s the pitchers who pitch. A pitching coach can’t make a silk purse out of a sow’s ear.
Now, I don’t think it is impossible to evaluate a pitching coach. I think it is nearly impossible for fans to evaluate a pitching coach. I think a manager who actually sees what a pitching coach is doing and how he’s working with pitchers has a good idea of how well that coach is doing his job. But you and I? We can only guess. I’m not saying McClure shouldn’t have been fired. For all I know, he was awful….or great. Probably somewhere in between, but I have no idea where. I don’t think you do either. I certainly wouldn’t fire a coach just because his players weren’t performing well. A coach can’t make bad players perform well.
And again how do you attribute mistakes to a manager? What is your criteria for that?
It’s certainly subjective. But we can see which players a manager starts and which he benches. We can see how he handles a pitching staff, including how many innings he allows pitchers to rack up, when he pulls a starter and which relievers he uses in which situations. We can see in-game strategies and tactics. There are many decisions, made by the manager, that we can easily identify.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 12:37 PM EDT up reply actions
Geez, what do you people want?
First, you say the team isn’t walking enough. Then, McClure delivers walks. And now he’s Teflon Bob?
Ridiculously critical spirit ’round here.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 29, 2011 7:12 PM EDT up reply actions 3 recs
OT: WAR Question
Hey Matt,
I had a quick question about Gordon’s WAR for you. I looked about a week ago and he was at 6.4 on FG. As of today, he is 6.9. He hasn’t played since he had a 6.4. Is his WAR going up because the people playing during September had worse numbers than the rest of the year so he is comparatively getting better than the “average” player or is something else happening? Thanks in advance for the response.
Probably a UZR update
It isn’t updated daily, like the regular counting stats. I think it’s updated weekly.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 29, 2011 9:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Yes, this is it
UZR and UBR are usually updated weekly, but it varies, and this one took a little longer.
Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.
by Matt Klaassen on Sep 29, 2011 10:01 PM EDT up reply actions
if your WAR goes up by not playing
MITCH’s WAR must be approaching infinity
"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell
MITCHymptote
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 30, 2011 10:45 AM EDT up reply actions
Chen Master for pitching coach
Alex Gordon is really good
Blaine Gabbert is really good
MJD is really good
Never forget Matt Treanor
by tiquanunderwear on Sep 29, 2011 7:06 PM EDT reply actions
I'll put give bucks on them giving Gibbons's job to Kendall.
Pffffffft
by NobodyFsWDeJesus on Sep 29, 2011 7:53 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Near as I can tell, we all looked at the pitching staff to start the season and said "these guys suck"
Turns out, they sucked. Not sure Bob can really be blamed for a staff anchored by C’MON CHEN, post-surgery Jeff Francis, and the enigma that is Luke Hochevar. Bullpen looked nice for quite a while, but with a lot of live, young arms- we might have started taking that for granted.
That said, yeah, he’s been around a long time and the pitching here has been bad for quite a while. Zack was great for a couple of seasons but anyone really crediting McLure for getting through to Greinke. Anyone crediting anyone for getting through to Greinke? Meche was his big victory until he was Trey’d and I think we saw the usual pile of disappointments and overachievements on his watch.
So, this was probably one of those “He’s around the middle of the pack and he’s been around a long time so it’s time to go”. I got the sense he was slightly above average. I actually feel that way about Yost, too. Nothing special- not “make your team much better than they are” but someone who gets the job done and won’t mangle it.
So, if you have four quadrants of much better, better, worse, much worse- odds mostly rest in the middle at somewhere between slightly better or slightly worse with a larger chance of “much worse” than “much better” if I have to choose between extremes.
Let’s rearrange those deck chairs some more!
by sterlingice on Sep 29, 2011 9:05 PM EDT reply actions 2 recs
But...
If we don’t assign all the blame to a single individual who can be let go and replaced, how will we justify our hope for a better season next year?
This is in line with the recent hire for minor league pitching coordinator
Sorry – I have already forgotten the name of the guy hired a few days ago, but he was the minor league pitching coordinator for the Twins from 1998 to 2007. The Twins were great through that period on not giving up walks. Don’t know if he had anything to do with it, but it does seem to indicate a organizational push towards cutting down on walks. I wondered why Montgomery didn’t get a September cup of coffee – maybe that is related too.
and theres that whole earning your way here thing...
and he surely didnt earn it….give him some motivation for the offseason and save a week or two of service time in case he happens to be ready by june or whatever of next year
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Sep 30, 2011 1:29 AM EDT up reply actions
It’s amazing that the major league pitching coach gets blamed for how minor league pitchers are developed and not the Minor League Pitching Coordinator, or his boss, the Assistant GM for Scouting and Player Development. Developing minor league pitchers is their job, not the major league pitching coach.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Look up "Keys to failure as a pitching coach" in the dictionary...
And you will find pictures of Kyle Davies, Jeff Francis, Vin Mazarro, and Sean O’Sullivan. Just saying, hard to shoot a gun if you ain’t got the bullets. I blame Dayton on that one.
Having to let go Dayton's boy, Davies, was most likely one of the reasons McClure was fired.
McClure just couldn’t help him.
Go Royals!
I didn't have a problem with Gibbons.....hopefully he can land somewhere on his feet.
McClure I’ve liked in the past, but maybe that was because Gil did well at first, Banny was serviceable (for the most part), and Zack just had the talent….This year really made me sour on McClure. Some things I’ve noticed over the years….
If a pitcher only has one or two solid pitches…McClure’s response seems to be “Hey, have you ever thought about adding a cutter?”
If a pitcher is doing well….“Hey, I think they are starting to catch on to your fastball…let’s try a CUT fastball”
I honestly believe now that McClure, while being a serviceable pitcher himself…is stuck in the old school of pitching. I think we need a younger, coach that can relate more to today’s power hitters.
The Royal Pork T....between inning snack of prized Royal Designated Hitters
If a pitcher only has one or two solid pitches…McClure’s response seems to be "Hey, have you ever thought about adding a cutter?"
If a pitcher is doing well…."Hey, I think they are starting to catch on to your fastball…let’s try a CUT fastball"
See, this is what I find interesting. What makes you think you know how McClure has dealt with various pitchers? Maybe you have more inside info than I do, as I don’t live in the KC area. But do you really have good reason to believe you know how McClure has tried to help (or not tried to help) various Royals pitchers? I just don’t think we have much information at all in that regard.
We have read reports that he’s taught a cutter to some Royals pitchers. We’ve also read that he’s tried to get some pitchers to rely more on their fastball. Do we really think this is all he’s done? Is there good reason to believe this?
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
How much say does a pitching coach generally have
over a pitcher’s workload? While ultimately this would seem to fall on the manager on a game to game basis, is the pitching coach heavily involved in setting a season innings limit?
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!
by KeepItCopacetic on Sep 30, 2011 12:08 PM EDT reply actions
The manager makes the decision. And the amount of input/influence the pitching coach has depends on the manager. I’m sure some managers actively seek out advice on that and perhaps rely on it heavily. I’m sure other managers make their call while soliciting little or no input from their pitching coach. I have no idea how Yost works in this regard.
You may know me as NYRoyal.
by Scott McKinney on Sep 30, 2011 12:21 PM EDT up reply actions
The pitching coach is sitting there in the dugout for a reason.
I would expect, at the least, that he’s occasionally supposed to walk over the the manager and say stuff like, “Ya know, Gil’s lookin’ a little tired out there.”
Some managers might just ignore them, though. For the record, I’d fire a manager who completely ignored the staff I put around him, but I haven’t been given hiring/firing authority by the Royals.
Not that I'm a huge Ned fan
but I’m a pretty firm believer that the Manager/ Head Coach of any team should be able to hire their own staff. They have to hire guys based on shared philosophy/ the right mix of personalities, strengths, etc./ and people that are going to be loyal to them. The other side, though, is that if the help YOU hire doesn’t get the job done, YOU may pay the price. Some of a manager’s biggest decisions should be his coaching hires, esp. pitching coach and hitting coach, in that order. In other words, let Ned hire who HE wants, he is responsible for on-field management. And if it doesn’t work, …….
by Rufus R. Jones on Oct 1, 2011 12:02 AM EDT via mobile up reply actions
Good Point.
Either way, I expect the manager to work with his staff. And, on the specific question of workload, I expect that pitching coach to have some significant input.
Comments For This Post Are Closed
Secondary Sidebar
User Tools
Related FanPosts on Royals Review
Related FanShots on Royals Review
FanPosts
Community blog posts and discussion.
Recommended FanPosts
Recent FanPosts
In Association With
Big League Stew - MLB - Yahoo! Sports
- Eric Hosmer redefines the Baltimore chop with infield double (Video)
- College player makes impossible over the fence catch to save tournament game (Video)
- Security!: Camden Yards guard collides with Royals’ Mike Moustakas
- The Juice: Nelson Cruz matches career high eight RBIs, Pujols stays hot in Seattle
- Benches clear at Fenway as Red Sox-Rays rivalry heats up
