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Around SBN: Full Coverage of 2012 Coke 600

Moustakas, Betancourt and Right-Handed Pitching

ANAHEIM CA - JULY 11:  U.S. Futures All-Star Mike Moustakas #8 of the Kansas City Royals at bat during the 2010 XM All-Star Futures Game at Angel Stadium of Anaheim on July 11 2010 in Anaheim California.  (Photo by Jeff Gross/Getty Images)

When the Royals signed Yuniesky Betancourt, one reason given for him being signed bothered me. That Royals said that Yuni was to give Moustakas a break against left-handed pitching as stated here by the KC Star:

The Royals, Moore said, needed someone to back up Alcides Escobar. They coveted a right-handed bat to spell Mike Moustakas against tough left-handed pitching ... But for now, the plan is to have the right-handed hitting Betancourt back up Escobar, spell Moustakas, and compete for playing time at second base.

Last season, Ned Yost would not even consider pinch hitting for Escobar with the game on the line so Escobar could learn to hit in pressure situations. Is Moustakas that bad against LHP, that the Royals need to already consider him a platoon option? Let's take a look:

Here are Moustakas' MLB stats from last year:

vs. RHP: 0.289/0.327/0.414 in 267 PAs

vs. LHP: 0.191/0.258/0.236 in 98 PAs

It is a fairly significant split, but he has only 51 PAs vs LHP. Not exactly a sample size to write home about. Here are Yuni's on the other hand:

vs. RHP: 0.266/0.287/0.382 in 2764 PA

vs. LHP: 0.275/0.308/0.421 in 818 PAs

Yes, you are reading that correctly, the Royals are wanting to sub in a player that barely has a 0.300 OBP for one of the franchise's possible future cornerstones.

Star-divide

A player's platoon values will begin to show up while they are in the minors. With over 1900 minor league PAs, Moustakas' horrible split should have been evident before the majors. Finding good minor league platoon splits is difficult. I was able to find his splits from 2010 and before at drivelinebaseball.com. Here are his combined minor league numbers:

vs. RHP: 0.295/0.353/0.539 in 1145 PA

vs. LHP: 0.254/0.313/0.433 in 517 PAs

Moustakas had a decent platoon split in the minors, but is it really enough to platoon him with Betancourt. I just don't buy it.

Even though I like the idea of platooning and in this situation, it may be a small bit helpful, the idea is asinine. You have one of MLB's top prospect that just turned 23 and you plan benching him for maybe a couple of runs over the course of the season. Since the team has already admitted they have little chance of contending in 2012, they might as well give Moustakas as many chances against left-handed pitchers to become more familiar with them. If the Royals want to be able to win in the next few years, Moustakas has to continue to develop and that development is not going to happen if Yuni is starting instead of him.

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Is it wrong?

Is it wrong of me to hope that Yuni has the worst spring training EVER????

He’s also welcome to struggle in Omaha too, if he won’t accept free agency.

/tweeting.... @displacedsptsfn
/blogging.......displacedsptsfn.blogspot.com

by okstarsfan on Jan 10, 2012 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

Every time Yuni pinch-hits or starts for Moose, the argument by the homers will simply be...

…“oh it’s no big deal, it’s just one AB/four ABs. That won’t hurt him.” Then when we look back upon the season and realize that Yuni stole 60-100 PAs from one of our top prospects for absolutely no reason on Earth, the argument will switch to “what’s done is done, why are you arguing about the past??”

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 10, 2012 11:19 AM EST reply actions  

Also

“And Yuni’s pinch hits probably won the Royals 5 more games! That’s going to be really important when we try to lure free agents to KC.”

and

“Moustakas is just a kid. He hasn’t even been in the majors for two full years. He hasn’t earned the right to hit in those clutch situations. Yuni’s a vet. He’s paid his dues. He earned those clutch at bats and he was always clutch for the Royals. It made sense to PH Yuni for Moose.”

and

“Getting pinch hit for like that probably has just made Moose hungrier. It’s good for a player to be a litlte angry, to have a chip on his shoulder. Now he’s going to work twice as hard to prove himself.”

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

Excuse Me While

I clean the vomit off my keyboard. We will hear every one of those gems, probably from Ryan, before the ASG.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 10, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

How did I not notice "compete for playing time at second base"?

I’m still more worried about Gia than Moose. I never believed the 100-150 AB thing.

by thelaundry on Jan 10, 2012 11:31 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

There are lots of opportunities for Yost to give Yuni AB's

He’ll find a way to get Yuni into games. Gia may well make it easy for him.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 11:33 AM EST up reply actions  

Me too

I think, the low end would be 300 and the high end would be 550. I’ll split the difference and say 425.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

without an injury,

there is no way in hell Yuni gets 425 PA this season. high end will be 250.

by Bronzillo on Jan 12, 2012 1:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't understand this. I really don't.

Yost starts his starting players a disproportionate amount of time. Subs in his lineup were extremely rare; just look at Maier’s ‘playing time’ and games started by Escobar. This isn’t a new thin for Yost either; he started Kendall 151 games at catcher, which is an almost preposterous level.

Yost doesn’t ‘find ways’ to get any bench player into games. Do you have any reasoning behind your statement other than pessimism?

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 12:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Do you have any reasoning behind your statement other than pessimism?

A couple things. First, I think he really values Yuni’s experience and tools. Second, I don’t think Yost and Moore see Yuni as merely a bench player. I think they see him as a significant asset who can do a lot of things. And if Gia doesn’t perform well, there will be a huge hole at second base that someone needs to fill.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 1:02 PM EST up reply actions  

From Dodd's initial article in the Star:
"Yuni is somebody that we had targeted…" Moore said. "There were about four or five clubs (interested in Betancourt). Most of the clubs wanted him for a similar role, to be a utility guy that could play shortstop."

Also,

"I think that’s something he’s going to have to come to grips with," Moore said of Betancourt’s limited role.

Straight from Moore’s mouth, he insists that Yuni is primarily a backup. There’s also this interesting quote at the end:

"It sets us up with some quality depth if indeed we sustain some type of injury," Moore said. "And that’s our job; we gotta think worst-case scenario. Expecting good things to happen, but we gotta anticipate worst-case scenario. And Yuni gives us that depth."

Now, perhaps it is troubling that the Royals see Yuni as “quality” depth, but read between the lines in that statement. Moore is mentioning Yuni and worst-case scenario in the same quote. Does that sound like he’s still set on starting him to you?

Also, mlb.com reported Yost would start Escobar 150+ times assuming his good health. With respect, Scott, I believe your personal opinion on this matter is clouding your judgment. I’m offering official quotes by the General Manager on the subject in addition to the proven track record of the Royals’ manager. Do you still disagree?

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 1:42 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Do you still disagree?

They’ve also said that he’ll compete for the second base job. I’m skeptical that they’ll use him in a very limited role.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 1:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Perhaps

Dodd did say however:

The deal also positions Johnny Giavotella and Chris Getz to battle for the second-base spot, with the loser having options to start the season at Class AAA Omaha.

Nothing about Yuni starting.

I suppose it’s possible they could play him more. But I think the evidence points to a limited role.

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 2:01 PM EST up reply actions  

That’s Dodd, but didn’t Moore say something about Yuni competing for a 2B job? Or was it Yost? There’s a quote out there somewhere.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 2:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this is the droid you're looking for

And yes it’s Moore.

And we feel that Yuni could be a very good second baseman, and he’ll get an opportunity to compete there with the understanding, ‘Don’t expect to be the opening-day second baseman.’ "

The Royals will not put Yuni as starting 2B. That much is blatantly obvious. But that quote does not preclude the possibility of a custom Yuni installation in the middle of the season when or if the other part (Gio) fails.

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 3:26 PM EST up reply actions  

The Royals will not put Yuni as starting 2B. That much is blatantly obvious.

On Opening Day. But I think there’s a good chance Gio fails and then Yuni becomes the regular starting 2B for most of the season.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

How often does a team with four young, promising infielders promote a 30 year old, crappy utility infielder to start over their young players?

Sure, it could happen, and more irrational things have happened in the Royals organization over the last 20 years of suck. I’m not ruling it out, but I think it’s needlessly pessimistic to expect it.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

If one of them fails?

I’m sure that’s not that rare. It’s not like teams usually just accept the failure from a young player over 600+ PA’s in a season.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that it is likely that Yuni will be the Opening Day starter at 2B for the Royals. But would it be much of a surprise for Gia to fail in April and have Yuni become the starter in May? Or June?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

Gio is probably the one young infielder that doesn't have enough leash to ride out the season without hitting

And that’s as it should be. If Gio sucks, I don’t really care who replaces him. If Gio can’t hit or field and he isn’t improving at the MLB level, he needs to go back to AAA to work on his game and get his confidence back up. And if Colon or whoever isn’t ready yet, the 2B job will likely fall to Getz or Yuni.

But that scenario would result from a prospect failing rather than through an fetish for the Yuninator.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 2:49 PM EST up reply actions  

But that scenario would result from a prospect failing rather than through an fetish for the Yuninator.

Yes, but I think Yuni’s presence affects the length of Gia’s leash. And I agree with most that Gia should get the full season, as opposed to a month or two. But I doubt Moore and Yost see it that way. I don’t think a month or two (even with the addition of last season’s partial data) proves much.

But the point here isn’t that the Moore and Yost have a fetish for Yuni. It’s that there’s a soft spot in the infield which could be seen as a hole that needs to be filled at some point. And that is why the choice of a utility IFer is important, not just some 150 PA matter of very little consequence.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

"Yes, but I think Yuni’s presence affects the length of Gia’s leash."

Speculation. You don’t know that. Here, Lee Judge’s infamous “We just don’t know” quote is actually applicable. We don’t know what the FO is thinking. I think one’s views on this matter can be like a Rorschach test; it reveals our views about Moore and his team more than anything else.

Also, I would like to point out that this exact same issue would arise regardless of the utility infielder. To be honest, Yuni the Utility Infielder is not much better or worse than John Doe the Utility Infielder.

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 3:31 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I am definitely speculating. I thought I made that clear by saying “I think Yuni’s presence affects the length of Gia’s leash.” The speculation is based on something, but I don’t think the available evidence proves my position beyond a reasonable doubt or anything like that. I have my suspicions.

I think Moore and Yost overvalue Yuni. They’ve overused some gritty vets in the past. That doesn’t mean that will definitely happen here, but I suspect it will. We’ll see. I’m not certain, but I have an opinion.

Also, I would like to point out that this exact same issue would arise regardless of the utility infielder. To be honest, Yuni the Utility Infielder is not much better or worse than John Doe the Utility Infielder

Yes, the issue would arise if there were another utility IFer. But I think their opinion of the UI affects how willing they are to repalce Gia. And the fact that the UI is set to potentially replace Gia is a big reason why the UI decision wasn’t just a matter of no consequence that we shouldn’t care about. We’re talking about a role that could very easily turn into the everyday 2B at some point this season.

And I don’t know that Yuni is not much worse than other options. I think Ronny Cedeno is more than little better than Yuni, because of his much better defense. I think there were also other better and cheaper options as well.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't remember the Butler situation well off the top of my head

But Gordon had a very long leash. I don’t recall them giving a short leash to any of their top prospects. They’ve already proven that they’ll ride out a crappy few months with Moose.

Gio’s probably a different story tho. In terms of organizational support, I don’t think he’s a Kila, but he’s definitely not a Hosmer.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 4:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Ned Yost has been the manager of the Royals for less than two years.

This myth that we now know how he manages in every facet of the game and can say for a fact that the “backups don’t play” is ridiculous. When looking at his Brewers teams, it seems to me that the backups played plenty. Craig Counsell got plenty of playing time under Yost..and considering the fact that both Yost and Moore think Yuni is a good player…I see no reason to think they are just going to banish him to the bench because of a 1 1/2 year track record in KC. Just like the “oh, DM knows pitching, so we’ll be fine in that area under him” argument after DM’s first couple years was ridiculous.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 10, 2012 1:41 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not that "backups don't play"

But that Yost does not significantly use his backups if his starting lineup is producing. We saw that last year. The NL is a different story anyways—the pitcher FORCES you to use your bench.

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 1:44 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Well sure, if Moose and Gia and Escobar are all having good/great seasons, then of course Yost won't limit their playing time.

But is all three of them producing to the point that they can’t be removed from the lineup realistic? Probably not.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 10, 2012 2:03 PM EST up reply actions  

No, it's not ridiculous

Yost hasn’t had “quality veteran depth” to utilize. Now he (thinks) he does. And there’s also a potentially open position at second base for him to play everyday if Gia doesn’t perform well.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 1:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, they loved Betemit so much that they traded him at midseason for next to nothing.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 12, 2012 4:10 PM EST up reply actions  

can't deny he falls into your, "quality veteran depth" though..

also, look again. Antonio Cruz is a better prospect than you think. He will have a nice career as a solid back end RP.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions  

And didn't Yost utilize Betemit?

He got a good deal of playing time.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 13, 2012 10:45 AM EST up reply actions  

not as a util guy.

not sure if your being sarcastic here. Betty went thru stretches of his KC career where he was used frequently (and effectively) and periods where he was ignored beyond reason considering his potent bat.

I bring him up b/c I think its an example of a “veteran depth”, as you put it who didn’t play much once Moose came up mid season.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 10:51 AM EST up reply actions  

I don’t think there’s good reason to believe that the Royals management valued Betemit as highly as Yuni. You clearly think Betemit is a high quality veteran. They didn’t. Quite frankly, I didn’t. He had an aberrational season with the bat and had never been good defensively at any position. When his bat came back to earth, his defense still stunk and he was pretty worthless.

Clearly they liked Yuni a lot. They traded prospects for him to make him the team’s everyday starting SS for two years. They paid a lot more in prospects and dollars than they ever gave to Betemit. Now Moore and Yost have their prized pig back. And they aren’t keeping Babe in the corner.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 13, 2012 11:47 AM EST up reply actions  

Moore traded for Yuni only out of desperation

when Aviles had a early season ending injury. They had to have somebody to start at SS. Obviously, that trade didn’t work out like he hoped.

Also, they didn’t give up anything is prospects to get him. Dan Cortes was very overrated and that reality has fleshed out as accurate.

I didn’t like the resigning of Yuni, but i’m willing to take Moore’s word for it that it was only to be a backup.

The guy is a utility level player, and that is what he has been signed to be. I thought he was payed too much for that role, but subsequent signings since, around the league have suggested that it was closer to market value than initially thought.

The diff in our opinions Scott, is that you think he is viewed by the FO as a more valuable cog than I do.

If he is given the expanded role that you suspect, I will be quite disappointed, but I’m not willing to read into that because imo, the evidence isn’t there to suggest it.

I have been wrong before.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Moore traded for Yuni only out of desperation
when Aviles had a early season ending injury

Moore could have gotten a lot of SS’s out of desperation. He certainly wasn’t forced to trade prospects for a SS still due millions of dollars and then make him the full-time starting SS for the next two years. Moore went out and got Yuni because he wanted him. He valued Yuni’s tools highly. Still does apparently.

Also, they didn’t give up anything is prospects to get him. Dan Cortes was very overrated and that reality has fleshed out as accurate.

Cortes was still a fairly highly thought of prospect. He had value as a trade chip, whether Moore liked him or not. More spent that value on something which actually had negative value: Yuni.
I didn’t like the resigning of Yuni, but i’m willing to take Moore’s word for it that it was only to be a backup.

Are you also willing to take Moore’s word for it that he’ll be competing for a 2B job?
but subsequent signings since, around the league have suggested that it was closer to market value than initially thought.

Really? You mean that better players have signed for less has convinced you that his deal was close to market value?
If he is given the expanded role that you suspect, I will be quite disappointed, but I’m not willing to read into that because imo, the evidence isn’t there to suggest it.

I don’t think the available evidence points clearly to any one conclusion. I’m certainly not saying that I feel certain he’ll be used this way or that way. What I do see is substantial risk that a utility role could blossom into a full-time role (or at least significant playing time) due to the softness at the 2B position. If Gio fails, I don’t see Getz as a firewall that keeps Yuni from getting a lot of 2B starts. While Yuni might be a more versatile UI than Getz, who gets the starting 2B job is more important than who is the UI. If Gio is benched or sent down, I think they’ll put what they think as the best available player in the starting 2B role. And I believe they’ll think that is Yuni, not Getz.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 13, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

If Gio falls on his face (which I don't think he will),

Getz or Betancourt WILL be better options.

So, who of the two would you rather have starting at 2B?

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m not sure. They both stink. My point isn’t that Getz should start over Yuni. My point is that there is a legitimate chance that the Royals will eventually go to a Plan B for second base at some point this season. And given that, we can’t say that the Yuni signing really is no big deal because he’s merely a 150 PA utility player. The UI is quite possibly the heir apparent at 2B. The point is that the Royals shouldn’t have shelled out $2M for an awful Plan B. If they were dead set on spend more than league minimum for this role, then there were better options than what remains of Yuni, and for less than $2M.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 13, 2012 1:38 PM EST up reply actions  

and I think their were less

definitively better options than you think.

I would have liked Edgar, but he didn’t want to play here.

I would have preferred Jeff Keppinger, but he was still under SF control at the time and word is he likes the NL. He also made MORE than Yuni last year in the same role.

Ronny Cedeno? He is a considerably worse hitter than Yuni and an avg fielder at best, so I don’t think that can be called a clear upgrade.

Felipe Lopez? He had a .523 OPS last yr and has never been a particularly good fielder (career -4.4 dWAR per bRef).

Ryan Theriot? I would have preferred him as well, but he isn’t any kind of def wiz, hasn’t been the same off player since ’09, and considering he had 442 ab for the WS winner and made 3.3 mil last yr, I highly doubt he would have been willing to come to the AL in a util role for KC.

Nick Punto? I would have liked him as well, but why would he choose KC over Boston? He wouldn’t and didn’t.

Orlando Cabrera? Please, 37 yrs old, .510 OPS last yr.

Craig Counsell? PLEASE! 41, .503 OPS.

Yamico? Moore hated his attitude.

Irving Falu? No way. Career minor leaguer for a reason.

Jeff Bianchi? See Irving Falu.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

come on Scott,

what were these better options for less than $2M?

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 3:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Do we really want to go over this player by player?

FWIW, CAIRO projects Ronny Cedeno to have a wOBA only 4 points lower than Yuni. And unless all of the advanced defensive metrics are wrong, Cedeno is MUCH better defensively. And Cedeno has experience at 2B and 3B. And in KC, Cedeno would have a real shot at eventual starter time at 2B (so I think he would have come to KC). And Cedeno cost $1.1M. That’s a clearly better option for less.

I also think there have been other options listed that are better and cheaper than Yuni, including Renteria (we know he wouldn’t come to KC?), Punto (it’s hard to choose KC when KC makes no offer), Augie Ojeda, etc. It’s not a short list. I’m not going to take the time now to argue player by player. Many have been listed in many threads.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 13, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions  

With all due respect,

I’m disappointed in you scott. Such a weak argument.

Cedeno isn’t even as good an option as Chris Getz. He has a career .286 OBP in 7 seasons. Give. Me. A. Break.

Dayton stated that he was interested in Edgar Renteria before he signed Yuni, so that was obviously his first choice.

Boston signed Punto to a 2 yr contract. If you can’t see the obvious advantages to playing in Boston over KC in any scenario for a 30+ infielder, than I won’t be able to convince you otherwise. We weren’t going to win that recruiting battle.

Sorry man, but you have built your entire case against Yuni based on the assumption that Moore could have signed a cheaper, better option with ease.

I respect your opinion, but find that highly debatable.

As a starter Yuni is terrible. As a util backup, he will probly be around league avg all things considered.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 4:32 PM EST up reply actions  

Cedeno isn’t even as good an option as Chris Getz. He has a career .286 OBP in 7 seasons. Give. Me. A. Break.

Cedeno is a better overall player than Yuni and it isn’t particularly close. Their offense is close. The defense isn’t….at all. Look at the numbers. There’s a reason that the good projection systems project them to have similar hitting numbers.

Sorry man, but you have built your entire case against Yuni based on the assumption that Moore could have signed a cheaper, better option with ease.

Because there are so many of them.

As a starter Yuni is terrible. As a util backup, he will probly be around league avg all things considered.

Barely above replacement level isn’t league average for a utility player. And as has already been stated, this utility player could easily become a starter at some point.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 13, 2012 10:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Yost has been a manager before.

I’m looking at his Brewer teams. Yes, they are in the NL so it’s different, but the backups played plenty. I’m not guaranteeing Yuni will get 500 PAs, but this argument that it is so unlikely that Yuni plays hardly at all (the main justification for the signing) is crazy. Chances are, he will get 250-300 PAs and have plenty of time in the field.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Jan 10, 2012 2:04 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Let's break down a reasonable scenario

10 starts at SS, 15 starts at 3B, 25 starts at 2B

So that’d be 50 starts. If he averages 5 PA’s per start, that’s 250 PA’s.

I don’t see Yuni getting more than a handful of PA’s off the bench.

If Escobar, Moose or Gio face injuries or if Gio sucks pretty badly, Yuni might break 300 PA’s, but assuming good health and at least modest production, Yuni shouldn’t break 250 PA’s. I think the most likely scenario is in the 200 PA range.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 2:57 PM EST up reply actions  

So that’d be 50 starts.

Only if Gio locks down the 2B spot all season, or if the Royals like Getz more than Yuni (which seems unlikely).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:13 PM EST up reply actions  

incorrect

“if Gio locks down the 2B spot all season”

If he does that, than Yuni won’t start 25 games at 2B, he will get 10.

Also, they are more likely to turn to Getz at 2B if Gia fails because they will still need a util inf and they don’t like Getz in that role. They know what they have in Getz at 2B and since they still have options on him, they will just send Gia down and bring up Getz in the same starting capacity.

by Bronzillo on Jan 12, 2012 1:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Or Keep Gio

On the bench and use him to replace Yu-Bet if he needs to move to SS or 3B or even LF.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 12, 2012 9:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Oh Boy!

I haven’t even finish reading all the post (I think) I’m about to get sick. They got to give these guys a chance to prove themself! I strongly believe, Moose will be playing as he did during the end of the season and even better this new season. Same feeling for Gia! I would of preferred that the Royals would of brought to Kansas a very good starter pitcher then a utility IF. I hope they don’t take to much playing time from Moose or Gia! I hated to see “Melky” go and I finally got over the trade. I would like to see the original…regular players start in the new season and play as winners!

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 9:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Let's not get bent out of shape about this

Players need rest over the course of a season. Moustakas, if he stays pretty healthy, should start ~145-150 games. It makes sense to try to time up 10 or so of those games where he’s rested or is giving whatever small pain a day to heal up so that they coincide with games where the opponent is starting a lefty with a nasty slider.

If the Yuni platoon crutch prevents Moose from starting 145-150 games and getting lots of reps against LHP, I’ll grab a pitchfork and join the angry mob. Until then, I’ll assume that Moose is the everyday starter and that Yuni will only get starts at third when Moose needs a break—and if those breaks come against tough lefties, all the better.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

No, sitting Moose sometimes against lefties isn't a good idea at all
It makes sense to try to time up 10 or so of those games where he’s rested or is giving whatever small pain a day to heal up so that they coincide with games where the opponent is starting a lefty with a nasty slider.

Does it? If management thinks that this isn’t a contending year, then isn’t maximizing development more important than the small benefit you might be able to get from having Yuni face some of Moose’s LHP’s? Moose isn’t going to improve against LHP’s by facing them less often.

The dislike of potentially sitting Moose against some LHP’s in favor of Yuni isn’t pitchfork and angry mob-worthy. And I don’t think anyone is reacting like that. It is, however, a mistake (in the minds of many) and is worth of attention and discussion.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 1:06 PM EST up reply actions  

I've got my pitchfork out for Dayton

and I’m baying for his blood. I want to tar and feather him and then ride him out of town on a rail. We won’t even bother hanging him because that’s the punishment reserved for honorable horse thieves and cattle rustlers.

"That fucking fucker of a general swears too fucking much." --Unnamed soldier about Gen. George Patton, 1943

by Juancho on Jan 12, 2012 8:46 AM EST up reply actions  

Your right billybebilly!

Many were upset to find out “Royals brought back Yuni” I do remember the thread. I was one who said, could not comment much on him. Never saw this guy play and I’m about to see him this year. I just hope, it will not take to much playing time from “Moose”

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 9:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I can't tell what you're really disagreeing with

Do you not think that Moose should get 10-15 games of rest this season?

Or do you think that those 10-15 games of rest should be scheduled with no consideration for the opposing pitcher such that most of them fall on games against RHP (since most starters are right-handed)?

If it’s the latter, I disagree. Moose should get lots of experience against LHP since he needs to develop. But if he’s going to be rested one of two days, one of which will be against a tough lefty with a low 3/4 delivery and the other of which will be against a RHP, I’d rather Moose play the game where he’ll be in a position to succeed.

Obviously, if you take that to the extreme so that Moose never faces tough lefties, you’re in a bad situation where you’re not helping him to develop skills he’ll need in the future. But I don’t think that’s a risk here. He’s still going to play 150 games—he’ll just have a few more games against RHP and a few less games against LHP, and both the team and his personal numbers should be a little better off.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think I was pretty clear

Moose’s development is more important than the competitive benefit of whatever upgrade Yuni is against LHP. The Royals would be wise to actually maximize Moose’s exposure to LHP.

and both the team and his personal numbers should be a little better off.

The Royals would be better off with Moose actually learning to hit LHP’s better. The Royals winning an extra game in 2012 is pretty meaningless. Moose’s “personal numbers” have even less value. Moose’s development should be of paramount importance this year.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 1:57 PM EST up reply actions  

To be clear

We’re talking about ~15 games where Moose will be rested anyway.

I think it makes sense to have 10 of those days off fall against LHP and 5 fall on games against RHP. You seem to want to flip it so that Moose gets 5 games off against LHP and 10 games off against RHP.

Of course I want Moustakas to get plenty of reps against LHP this season, but we’re talking about ~5 games over a 162 game season. It’s a tiny difference however Yost breaks it down.

Moreover, I don’t think it’s clear that Moustakas’s development would be most encouraged by putting him in the most difficult positions for him to succeed. He needs to get reps against tough lefties and he needs to be challenged, but Yost should also look to put Moustakas in situations where he has a good shot to succeed. If Moose is in a slump and needs a rest, it doesn’t do him any good to go 0-5 with 4 K’s against Sabathia and then sit out against Freddy Garcia.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

We’re talking about ~15 games where Moose will be rested anyway.

We hope that’s the case.

I think it makes sense to have 10 of those days off fall against LHP and 5 fall on games against RHP. You seem to want to flip it so that Moose gets 5 games off against LHP and 10 games off against RHP.

I think his rest should be based on when he actually needs rest, is a little banged up or maybe might benefit from taking a day off while in a slump. That sort of thing. Certainly not to avoid LHP’s. Yes, I think he should face Sabathia, and the best lefties. I think he should face as many lefties as he can. That’s how you get better against lefties. If he’s very talented and major league ready, I don’t think he needs to be coddled. And, if ever, the time for coddling was in his rookie season, not his sophomore season.
If Moose is in a slump and needs a rest, it doesn’t do him any good to go 0-5 with 4 K’s against Sabathia and then sit out against Freddy Garcia.

I think him getting practice against LHP’s in real games is more important than giving him positive experiences. And of course the extreme “choice” you set up is a false choice. If the Royals want to give him positive experiences, then they can sit him against a good RHP and have him face someone like Sabathia.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a pretty boring argument

We’re talking about ~25 PA’s over the course of a season that will either come against lefties or not. Moose should get ~150 PA’s against lefties either way, so I hardly think there’s a risk that he won’t get enough reps against LHP.

So I say schedule his days off to put him in positions where he’ll succeed and stay confident, and you say don’t coddle him and that he should be put in the hardest possible situations so that he can work on his weaknesses. In the reality of a long season, both will happen.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 2:43 PM EST up reply actions  

It's just a philosophical issue

How best to develop a young player, and how do you compare that interest to maximizing the team’s chance to win a game. Those issues are important and interesting, even if the specifics of that issue as applied to this situation mean that it isn’t an earth shattering decision. If it’s such a boring argument, why are you in it? No one is acting like this is a huge issue. It’s just a Royals issue to talk about. It seems like you’re arguing that it isn’t worth talking about, even though you’ve made several posts on the issue.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I just don't think we really disagree

Or that to the extent we disagree (whether to give a slight preference to maintaining a player’s confidence or to putting them in the most challenging situations), we don’t have any evidence for our positions. Both sides are defensible, they’re player and situation dependent, and neither of us is a coach.

Ultimately, I don’t really care if Yost works it out so that Moose rests a few extra games against LHP instead of RHP. Which gets us back to my original point which is that we shouldn’t worry about Yuni encroaching on Moustakas’s playing time.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 4:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Ultimately, I don’t really care if Yost works it out so that Moose rests a few extra games against LHP instead of RHP. Which gets us back to my original point which is that we shouldn’t worry about Yuni encroaching on Moustakas’s playing time.

There is a non-zero chance that Moustakas really fails badly against LHP’s early in the season, leading to Yost giving Yuni more starts against LHP’s at 3B than is necessary for Moose’s rest. I’m not very concerned about that, but it wouldn’t shock me.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

So that's your strategy?

Let her rip? Roll out the ball and let’s play? Keep your eye on that pill? Awesome stuff.

Sounds like your development plan for Moustakas is roughly that of my 5th grade baseball coach who drank a six pack in his truck before practice and who wore wife beaters before they were called that and if they had been it wouldn’t have been funny at all. At all.

Presumably the Royals’ strategy for developing Moose’s left-on-left skills is more sophisticated and thoughtful than yours, which seems to be roughly “sink or swim”. Maybe not, but it’s weird that you’re so vehemently opposed to the widely used method of giving a student achievable goals of increasing difficulty. Perhaps your method is the cutting edge (I’m always behind) and it will spread across disciplines. And soon intro algebra students will be asked to work on Fermat’s Last theorem every day until they get it.

by billexgordler on Jan 10, 2012 6:37 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

Moustakas isn’t a student. He isn’t a child. He was a top 10 MLB prospect and followed that with a good start to a AAA season before being called up. Eventually he performed in a way that made it look like he genuinely was major league ready. He is, by all accounts, extremely talented. When you have a player that talented, you don’t keep him away from lefty pitchers. You make him face lefty pitchers, because it is that practice and experience which will make him better. That has worked for many players. One Royal example is Johnny Damon. When he got the majors, he had a lot of difficulty with LHP’s. But the Royals kept him in there against them, he took his lumps and improved against lefties year by year.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

DIsagree

He is very much a student. He’s played three months of major league baseball. He’s probably four years from his peak. He’s learning. There’s no meaningful definition of the word student that excludes Mike Moustakas as a major league baseball player.

The truth is that I have no idea the best way to improve Mike Moustakas’s left-on-left hitting skills. Maybe it’s having him face Clayton Kershaw and David Price 10 times a day for six months. Maybe it’s having him watch film and take BP against Randy Johnson from 40 feet. Maybe it’s having him catch a fly with chopsticks. Johnny Damon’s issues versus lefties may have been entirely different from Mike Moustakas’s issues. And maybe Damon’s psyche was a better fit for long bouts of failure against top pitchers. Your assumptions sound perfectly reasonable, but they may also be wrong. There’s a very real possibility that by regularly facing the toughest left handers in baseball he will learn bad habits that will be very difficult to unwind. How often do you hear of young QBs using a pared-down playbook? Coaches do this because they like to put young players in a position to succeed. This is for both psychological and physical reasons. This is not controversial. It is a best practice. It does not retard development or set a player up as a lifetime platoon candidate. It’s the smartest way to develop young talent.

by billexgordler on Jan 10, 2012 10:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Chopsticks

Definitely the chopsticks.

by Yodazilla on Jan 10, 2012 11:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Does He Have

To eat the fly, too?

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 11, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, we'll agree to disagree

But I find it odd that you started with:

The truth is that I have no idea the best way to improve Mike Moustakas’s left-on-left hitting skills

And then you proceed to say that he needs to be put in a position to succeed because that is best for psychological and physical reasons, ending with:
It’s the smartest way to develop young talent.

It took only one paragraph for you to go from having no idea to comfortable certitude.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 9:19 AM EST up reply actions   1 recs

foolish consistencies, hobgoblins, etc

1) Specifically as regards to MM I have no idea what’s the best way mechanically or psychologically to make him the best hitter of lefties in the shortest amount of time. Drills, tee work, BP, etc etc. No idea. Not even close to an area of expertise of mine.

And

2) Generally as regards all young athletes, even and perhaps especially elite ones, I am certain that putting them in the best position to succeed is a best practice and the smartest way to develop young talent.

Therefore

3) I believe that giving MM nights off against those pitchers against whom he’s most likely to fail is probably the best way for him to develop this particular skill, though if the Royals decided otherwise I would probably defer to their superior knowledge of the player in this case.

by billexgordler on Jan 11, 2012 10:18 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Very well said.

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 12, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

No Sorry!

It’s let the boy play! Moustakas is not the type of guy who likes to be seated. The more you play the better you get. Of course depending on the player. But, as far as “Moose” goes…..he is not the type of player to be seated. In order to overcome a problem, you need to face it. Plus, he is not the only player on the Royals, who had a tough time against LHP. There were acouple more. Moose, is talented and did struggle a bit in the begining. But, at the end, he came out swinging and did much better. I don’t see him at all starting the new season slow or returning having to much problems against LHP. As a matter of fact, I believe, he will be hitting more this season even against LHP.

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 10:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Themis

I gotta say, your posts never cease to make me smile. Can’t wait to hear your comments once the season starts.

by Rufus R. Jones on Jan 12, 2012 10:36 PM EST via mobile up reply actions  

I believe

they should work with the players! if there is a weakness with Moose and left handed pitchers, they should work with him during spring training to get him more developed hitting against LH pitchers. I also agree with Scot, sitting Moose down to avoid a left handed pitcher is not the way to go. He needs to develope and the more he faces them the better. Atleast, that’s my opionion. How on earth is a player to get better by giving him rest time. Moose does not look like the type of guy, who would like to sit and rest. he is more like the type of guy…that wants to play. He got the feel for the mlb and he will come back tougher and stronger. That’s my feeling about Moose.

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 9:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope that Ned only uses Yuni to spell Escobar and Moustakas

And I agree that Ned likes to play everyday players darn near every day. I’m focusing on the statement that Yuni will be competing for playing time at 2B. Giavotella is far from a can’t miss prospect, but I still want to see him out there as a regular for the season and let him go through the ups and downs like Moustakas and Escobar did last year.

I am worried that Giavotella won’t get that same opportunity, especially if he starts poorly.

by thelaundry on Jan 10, 2012 1:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the 2B front is a little scarier

But I’m really not worried about the Moose situation at all.

by kcdc1 on Jan 10, 2012 1:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely agree.

Moose will get plenty of starts versus LHP and his development will be just fine. When Yuni plays, why not give him the best opportunity to be successful and start mostly against lefties?

by Royalron on Jan 10, 2012 3:24 PM EST up reply actions  

why not give him the best opportunity to be successful and start mostly against lefties?

Because maximizing Moustakas’s reps against LHP and helping his development is more important than giving Yuni the best opportunity to be successful. Moose’s development is more important than Yuni’s success, no?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not that concerned about Yuni taking Moose's AB's against lefties

It’s pretty standard operating procedure to give a guy some time off, and it makes sense to give Moose time off against lefties, since that’s his weakest area. Whether it was Betemit, Aviles or Yamaico taking those ABs, Moose wasn’t gonna get those ABs and it might make him better for it. And Yuni isn’t a terrible option at the plate – his splits against lefties in the majors are as good as Moose’s splits against lefties in the minors.

However, I still can’t believe that we’re gonna be watching Yuni in the field next year. It’s gonna be an absolute trainwreck.

by Loose Seal on Jan 10, 2012 2:54 PM EST reply actions  

Agreed about the Yuni usage in general, but this is one of the disagreements
it makes sense to give Moose time off against lefties, since that’s his weakest area.
it might make him better for it.

At least this season, as Moose is still learning to hit ML pitching, I think he needs to see those tough LHP, not avoid them. It being his weakest area means he needs to work on it more, not less. How’s he going to learn to hit the best stuff if he never faces it?

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2012 5:00 PM EST up reply actions  

Baby steps.

Hoz has talked about how the toughest part of the Majors is how he has to keep making adjustments. Moose has a lot of adjustments to make, especially against lefties, and I think he’d be overwhelmed if he was asked to make all those adjustments so quickly. He’ll still face a number of LHPs throughout 2012 so he can learn, but he can keep his confidence up by facing more RHPs. It’s totally a a judgment call, and I don’t have any inside information, but I think we can be patient with his development.

by Loose Seal on Jan 10, 2012 5:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Moustakas has had 365 MLB PA’s. For how long do you ask him to take baby steps? Facing good pitchers of the same handedness is a standard part of the game. If he’s MLB-ready, he’s ready for that, especially with most of a season and 365 PA’s under his belt already.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 8:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

I think it's important to note that Moose will get a LOT of PA's against LHP

We’re talking about timing his rest to cut off about 20 (of 150-200) PA’s against LHP and adding those 20 PA’s against RHP. If preventing Moose from getting plenty of reps against LHP were on the table, it would clearly be a bad choice.

by kcdc1 on Jan 11, 2012 9:25 AM EST up reply actions  

If preventing Moose from getting plenty of reps against LHP were on the table, it would clearly be a bad choice.

I think it’s a bad choice. It’s just a matter of degree. If, for instance, Moose only played 145 games instead of 150 games, and especially if those “extra” 5 days off were Yuni starts, that would be a bad move as well. Is 5 games the end of the world? No, but a mistake nonetheless. If Moose gets 25-50 fewer PA against LHP than he could, I think that will be a mistake as well. It will also not be the end of the world. But I think it’s more than negligible. And I think mistakes that are less than catastrophic are still worthy of discussion and even complaint.

The fact that Moustakas’s rest is going to also mean Yuni playing time makes it all the more unpalatable.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 10:29 AM EST up reply actions  

Im on the 'Its a good idea' side

If Moustakas is having a good year, getting dominated by lefties could, possibly, hurt his confidence…….later in his career when hes established, it would be unthinkable to take him out of the game. Some of you act as if hes a perennial all-star already…….. Lets watch him dominate before we get too angry for him being replaced a few games a year. My lord…

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Lets watch him dominate before we get too angry for him being replaced a few games a year. My lord…

I think you’re missing something. I’m not saying that he should face these tough lefties because he’s a great player and keeping him in there give the Royals the best chance to win games. I’m saying he should be left in there to face tough lefties (and as many lefties as possible) to give him reps against lefties so that he can improve. His development in 2012 is worth more than the marginal improvement (if any) that Yuni would provide.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

I see that

Im arguing that it could hinder his development. It COULD hinder his development. Of course, I KNOW nothing, but I like the idea of him getting used to lefties before he faces the dominant ones. Also, I doubt DM is taking him out Every time he faces a dominant one, just most of the time…. Like I said before, It could crush his confidence, and also, like I said before, Why cant we just trust the guys that are paid to do this and have been doing it a while. Why do we, the Couch GM’s think we know more than they? Its a little pretentious…….dont you think?

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Why cant we just trust the guys that are paid to do this and have been doing it a while. Why do we, the Couch GM’s think we know more than they? Its a little pretentious…….dont you think?

It’s pretentious to criticize something that the Royals management has done (or looks like they are going to do)? Wouldn’t that mean that they are above criticism, or that criticism of them by mere fans is never appropriate? They do make mistakes. They do some things wrong. Wouldn’t it be appropriate for us to comment when we think we see a mistake? Granted that we (or I) could be dead wrong.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 4:46 PM EST up reply actions  

Im not arguing your right to do it

just your continued propensity for it..

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don’t agree with the argument that we shouldn’t criticize the Royals management (or at least that we shouldn’t do it often) because they are the experts and know more than we do. Some GM’s and managers are bad at their job. Some are deserving of much criticism. Dayton Moore might be one of those GM’s.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Hey

I criticize him as well. I fear that even if Francour had a worse year that he still would have been signed to the extension. I feel His love over ex-prospects really do cloud his judgment. I had hated and repeatedly criticized Davies roster spot for two and a half years though I would admit his changeup was nasty when he could locate it. My criticisms, though, are generally made AFTER they are proven to be wrong. Yea, I guess you could say I just trust that hes doing the right things until it proves false..

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:56 PM EST up reply actions  

Or, AFTER his decisions are proven to be wrong, rather.

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:59 PM EST up reply actions  

and especially when he does nothing to correct them (ie
Playing Kendall everyday and in the #2 spot, no less and his continued reliance on an obvious flop in Davies)

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 5:01 PM EST up reply actions  

Just My Opinion

Mous has faced LHP; he needs to figure out MLB LHP, which is consistently better than what he saw in the minors. I think facing the real thing will be more productive than watching from the bench while Yu-Bet flails at it.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 11, 2012 5:49 PM EST up reply actions  

why? b/c you have a hunch?
(or looks like they are going to do)?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 12, 2012 12:55 AM EST up reply actions  

What are you asking?

Why I think that it looks like the Royals are going to sit Moose in favor of Yuni against good lefties? Because that’s what they say they are going to do.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 12, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

I can only venture a wild ass guess as to why Hoz, Gio, Alcides, and Moose have gotten completely different development paths in terms of plate appearances. For Moose, I am OK with giving him some time off against lefties since I think he needs to focus more on (1) the timing of major league pitching and (2) how to recognize pitches and (3) laying off balls out of the strike zone. I think he started doing that towards the end of last year, but I’d like to see him do that for more than a month before concluding that he’s figured it out. These are things that take time, and can hurt a player throughout their career if they never learn how to do them. Once he’s gotten a better grasp on those 3 things, he can focus on hitting lefties. But I don’t think it’s realistic to ask Moose to make all those changes that quickly/at the same time.

Again, I have no idea if Yost is thinking this same way, but even if he isn’t, I agree with the end-result.

by Loose Seal on Jan 11, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions  

Yet, as we know, they didn't see the need to take "baby steps" with Escobar.

Admittedly, Escobar did have more MLB experience. Nonetheless, I wonder if they fault Moose’s mental makeup somewhat.

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Jan 11, 2012 2:41 AM EST up reply actions  

I’m surprised billexgordler isn’t condemning the Royals for following the industry’s best practices and using the “smartest way to develop young talent” with Escobar. They didn’t put him in a position to succeed. They just put him out there game after game, and hardly ever even pinch hit for him, even in the biggest game situations.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

That should be “comdening the Royals for not following the industry’s best practices…”

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I was considering calling you out on the opposite

But I couldn’t remember whether you were one of the many who’s been critical of Yost for leaving him out to flail in close and late situations.

My argument is two-fold:
1) Escobar has much more major league experience than Moustakas. He’s further along in his career, and I wouldn’t expect to see Mous sitting vs. tough lefties in Aug/Sept.

2) Basically what Loose Seal says below but also and critically it would seem to me that hitting left-on-left is primarily a physical challenge ($1 Double Dare) whereas hitting in late and close is primarily a mental one. And it’s reasonable to think that the former is about gradually developing good habits and form while the latter is about getting accustomed to a situation.

Certainly the situations are similar, but there are critical differences that likely play a significant role in the decision-making process.

by billexgordler on Jan 11, 2012 10:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I think it might be that Escboar's ceiling is lower

If they view him as a guy who needs to get on base, maybe they think that facing tough pitchers will only help him. Or maybe they don’t see him hitting for power, and they think that contact hitters should be able to learn against anyone.

I haven’t looked at any of his splits to figure out if there are any glaring holes like Moose though.

by Loose Seal on Jan 11, 2012 10:32 AM EST up reply actions  

LOL

I just figured everyone on this site followed eachother……Its nice to see a differing opinion once in a while from a guy I see a lot of on here. BTW, I couldnt agree more with you. Besides, If I had to choose who makes the smarter managerial moves for the Royals between Someone experienced in doing it (DM) or myself, or any of you for that matter-I think Id have to trust that DM knows a wee bit more about this shit than I (or we) do.

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Do you read Lee Judge's column?

I think you’d like his work.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 4:43 PM EST up reply actions  

Nope.

Why? Is that some sort of diss? If hes the eternal optimist type, youve casted me in the wrong role..

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Don't know if it is a "diss" but you and he agree on some things

He recently wrote that mere fans shouldn’t be playing “amateur GM” because we don’t know enough. DM has much more information, so we should defer to his decisions. Judge writes a column in the Star. You’d like it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 11, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

He didn't suggest what you should think

He said that if he had to choose who makes the smarter mgr moves he would pick DM over himself and the RR bloggers because Moore is more experienced.

He is right. Moore knows more about baseball than you, me and anybody on this site. That is a fact. Your ego would never allow you to accept that Scott, but it doesn’t change the truth of the matter.

by Bronzillo on Jan 12, 2012 2:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Of course Moore knows more about baseball than I do (with the likely exception of statistical analysis). But I still think it is fair for us to criticize his moves when we see what looks like a mistake.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 12, 2012 4:15 PM EST up reply actions  

I agree with that

but I also agree with chosenOne that the criticism tends to get overly negative and personal specific to Moore…. not singling you out at all. your negativity is uniform across the board. As a lawyer, you have opinions and like to argue.

I will add that I am not a Lee Judge fan at all. His preachy “Lessons in Baseball 101” crap is condescending and insulting to intelligent people. I was really hoping that the Star wouldn’t bring him back for another season.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 11:02 AM EST up reply actions  

I just think that Moose not getting time off would be compounding the colossal mistake of the Yuni signing.

by Loose Seal on Jan 11, 2012 5:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well then

Why not give all the guys rest time as well! Can Yuni, play every position? LOL…will agree, some time off is ok…as long as they don’t take away lots of playing time for the regular players of last season. Does the bat boy get rest time to? LOL..getting closer to game time :)

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 10:24 PM EST up reply actions  

It's a bizzaro world

That an MLB manager can see a good individual platoon split in a player, and yet completely miss the point that that player is still a crappy hitter even against the side he has the advantage.

I couldn’t really care less that Yuni hits way better against Lefties. He still hits them poorly. He also has quite wild swings in that split throughout his career (as you’d expect from small samples), so he’s hardly a banker to produce even at his very modest career level against lefties.

Edgar knows best.

by kcbottom9th on Jan 10, 2012 3:03 PM EST reply actions  

If Vegas set the over/under on plate appearances for Yuni

at 280…

I would take the OVER and bet the house on it. No way in hell does Yost NOT put him in the lineup at least 3-4 days per week. He’ll give Escobar a day off here and there, put Yuni at 3rd every time we face a tough lefty, and I’m not sold on Gio at 2nd base so I bet Yost will have a short leash on him. I could see a realistic scenario where Yuni is playing 2nd base almost everyday by June. This is the Royals, after all….

"Poker, poker, it's all skill. Start with the worst hand and go uphill" - Mike Matusow

by Kim DeJesus on Jan 11, 2012 2:18 PM EST reply actions  

Is this site used primarily to bash managements decisions??

Yes, thats right they want a near .300 OBP guy to spell a possible future cornerstone member of the team who is so far hitting .191 with a .258 OBP (albeit with only 51 AB) Besides in that article he said against top notch Lefties or ‘tough’ lefties, not all lefties…. but, whatever, take your shits on DM all you want and switch around his words to make them sound however you want them to so that you can write your piece. How many truly ‘tough’ lefties do we face in the AL? You got CC, David Price, CJ Wilson, Gio’s a NAT now….I dont know, Im not gonna ponder over every team, I doubt theres more than two other ‘tough’ lefties out there though. Point is…….Your getting your panties in a bunch over nothing, if Betancourt spells moustakas for these few pitchers every once in a while it will probably help our team….. Sorry Im just sick of the negativity here.

Cap it, and watch the players association strike it. http://budtheclark.mlblogs.com/

by ChosenOneK on Jan 11, 2012 4:04 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

Sorry, I'm Just

Sick of Yuniesky F. Betancourt.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 11, 2012 5:51 PM EST up reply actions  

im sick of hearing about him...

why not just see how it plays out….everyone’s opinions/predictions are noted

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 12, 2012 12:57 AM EST up reply actions  

He Has A

Long history of mediocrity to metaphysical suckitude. I’ve seen enough.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 12, 2012 3:03 AM EST up reply actions  

yet, you're still a royals fan?

seems like an obvious double standard to me

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 12, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

No, Barney. The

Royals as a team can get better. They look like they’re on the verge of doing this. Yu-Bet does not appear to be a positive contributor to this.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 12, 2012 9:24 PM EST up reply actions  

.
Is this site used primarily to bash managements decisions??

When I disagree with a decision or a comment, I will voice my opinion.

Doubting Thomas, the patron saint of sabermetrics

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 12, 2012 12:15 AM EST up reply actions  

Right on bro

I feel ya.

…and yes, many of the posters here ARE followers (as you put it).

…and yes, bashing Moore IS a very popular sport on this site. Sadly, it makes many feel better about themselves.

by Bronzillo on Jan 12, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

I feel better.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Jan 12, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

To each their own

As sports fans, we all have opinions. And we all have the right to disagree, unless facts dictate that it is no longer debatable. The tone of this site is very critical, and yes, at times could probably be considered negative. If you are looking for a rah-rah site, this is not usually it. At times, it is very annoying. Especially if you disagree with someone.

You will also be hard-pressed to find a more insightful crowd than this one on a Royals blog. If it’s not for you, that’s ok. There are many others out there, each with their own tone and community. We are all free to visit whichever one we like.

by Rufus R. Jones on Jan 12, 2012 3:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I disagree...

At times, it is very annoying. Especially if you disagree with someone.

I don’t find it hard to disagree with someone. I only find it hard to disagree with someone if I don’t have any evidence/reasoning to back up my argument, or if my argument ignores better evidence/reasoning.

by Loose Seal on Jan 12, 2012 3:14 PM EST up reply actions  

lmao

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 12, 2012 10:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Might be the comment of the year so far.

Doubting Thomas, the patron saint of sabermetrics

by Jeff Zimmerman on Jan 13, 2012 8:47 AM EST up reply actions  

When I first started frequenting this site..

I just wanted another Royals site to read information about the Royals players and their moves. I enjoyed the knowledge that fans seemed to have in the comments. Fan knowledge on this site is truly second to none as a whole….I rarely read nonsense here as I do on other sites. But the theme here this offseason has been negative while the overall theme for the Royals of late should be positive. It makes me think this website is satirical and relies on the Royals being below average-and in turn thrives on it……Its almost as if the writers are rooting against success (I know that isnt the case) But this theme does go a long way in affecting many posters here…… We are ushering in a new era here fellas………lets just enjoy the ride. No rides are completely smooth and bumps will happen, theres no need to criticize every one of those bumps we come across (and especially BEFORE they happen)

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 12, 2012 8:58 PM EST up reply actions  

When I first visited this site as well!

I have also enjoyed this site. It’s helped me understand mlb more then the usual. My grammer is the worse here and there are times jokes are made or some of the bloggers…hint back and forth among each other or even team up to put me down.. Do I care? NO…still stop by once in awhile to read and still make my comments. I’m not perfect and neither are they. However,there are many, who are helpful at the same time. There has been negativeness on this site every once in awhile. I just feel, that some think this way, since KC has not really won many games since 1985 World Series. Every year looks promising to them and they lose. Maybe this, could be a reason, why? there is so much negativeness or not! Just stay positve though, cause there will be surprises this new year. KC will make the playoffs!

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 11:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Must add!!!

No matter what…I still like this site. Royals Review…you’ll get upset at times..but other times…it becomes funny as well and you get a good laugh. So, don’t give up..the more the marrier!

by Themis on Jan 12, 2012 11:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Themis

Yes I read elsewhere that English is your second language, and may I say, that you speak it very well. As long as i can understand what your trying to say, then your getting your message across well. Dont worry, I am not angry at anyone, and Im not threatening anything like leaving the site-Like anyone would care. I just try to influence the group to think more positively. I may be naive, but I feel that I express myself well enough, and that I do accomplish this to some degree… If nothing else-a mutual respect earned will suffice.

Lets just enjoy the ride, fellas......

by ChosenOneK on Jan 12, 2012 11:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Understandable

Go Royals! Can’t wait for season to start :)

by Themis on Jan 13, 2012 11:45 AM EST up reply actions  

Well put

For hardcore, passionate, intelligent, Royals fans, there is no better site than RR and its not close. There IS no other option really.

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 11:08 AM EST up reply actions  

Bronzillo, with this post, you just made yourself look silly. We make fair criticisms of Moore. They are debatable criticisms. Saying that those criticisms make us feel better about ourselves is just ridiculous.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 12, 2012 4:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I Am Prima

Facie evidence that he is incorrect; I could not possibly feel better about myself.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 12, 2012 9:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I said "many" which is intentionally arbitrary. I did not say most.

I will say it again. There are many posters who are spiteful and irrational in their criticism of Dayton Moore to an unfair level imo….and yes, often criticism of others is used as a device to improve self worth by attempting to bring others down instead of boosting one’s self up. Its a cheap trick.

I do think Moore deserves criticism when he makes obviously poor decisions, and he has, but it should be kept within the context and perspective of the industry, his peers, his authority and the tools at his disposal…One large pet peeve of mine is bringing up his mistakes from say, ‘06, ’07, 08’. KC didn’t hire a GM with experience, they hired a rookie. I have never understood why players are given tremendous slack in their early years to fail, but not a rookie GM. I think the learning curve is similar, and I see great improvement.

When it manifests on the field, I sense that the haters will act if they liked him all along.

“I knew he had it in him!” :^ )

by Bronzillo on Jan 13, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

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