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ZiPS Projections and the 2012 Royals

A month ago, I used the CAIRO system's individual player projections to come up with a projected team win total of 78.2 wins. Now, thanks to the largesse of Dan Szymborski of Baseball Think Factory, we have the ZiPS projections to use for this purpose. Annual evaluations of various projection systems find ZiPS to be at or very near the top of the heap. So this data should at least give us a reasonable expectation of where the 2012 should be....approximately.

Star-divide

Before I get into the methodology and the numbers, I want to make a quick point about projection systems. They are not magic. They are not divinely revealed truth. They are not intended to be definitive statements on how various players will perform in the coming season. They use sound methodology (involving, in the very least, weighted averages of recent seasons, translations from minor league data, appropriate regression, and the application of aging curves) to project how the available data suggests the player will perform. Every projection is actually the median projection from a range of possibilities. A player projected to hit .300 will probably have a good chance to hit anywhere from .285 to .315. The likely range for a player with a lot of MLB data is considerably smaller than for a rookie whose projection is based largely on a translation of minor league stats. Rookies and sophomores are particularly difficult to project. Johnny Giavotella, for instance, could be quite good, or genuinely bad next year.

Systems like ZiPS attempt to come up with an objective projection, but a wide variety of things could happen. Some Royals will outperform their projections and some will underperform. If more Royals do better than their projections, they'll win more games than is suggested below, and if more perform worse than projected, they'll win fewer games. The following is merely an illustration of how this projection system suggests the Royals will perform next year. Do with that information what you will.

Methodology

The CAIRO projections provided a WAR value for each player, so I totaled team WAR to project the team's win total (in the comments, kcdc1 and I used other methodologies as well to come up with projected win totals ranging from 73 to 78). The ZiPS projections (at least in this rollout) do not include WAR, so I calculated each player's Runs Scored and Runs Allowed. For hitters, I calculated Base Runs. For pitchers, I used two methodologies, Runs Allowed based on ERA and Runs Allowed based on FIP.

To account for defense, I utilized ZiPS defensive projections. As they give no run values, I had to apply an approximate value to correspond to each label. I assigned the following run values per 100 PA's.

Excellent 1.75

Very good 1

Average .25

Fair -.5

Poor -1.25

The above is based on the assumption that a player whose fielding is average for his position is providing a modest positive run saving value. Using the above formula, Salvador Perez, over 560 PA's provides a positive run savings of 5.6 runs.

For playing time estimates, I used the same PA and IP as in the CAIRO exercise with the following changes, due to player acquisitions over the last month. Yuniesky Betancourt was given 175 PA, Chris Getz was pushed down to 50 PA and Joaquin Arias got the boot. For pitchers, Jose Mijares was given 50 ip, Tim Collins, Blake Wood and Kelvin Herrera all were bumped down to 40 ip. For all players, their RS and RA were based on adjusted projections in accordance with my playing time estimates, rather than ZiPS playing time projections.

After I came up with the Runs Scored and Runs Allowed, I used Pythag (with an exponent of 1.884 based on last year's run environment (h/t to kcdc1)) to come up with a team win total.

Results

Runs Scored (plus defensive runs saved) - 750.9

Runs allowed (based on ERA) - 781.3

Runs allowed (based on FIP) - 755.1

Win Total (based on ERA) - 78.0

Win Total (based on FIP) - 80.6

P1010073_medium

Scott endorses the above numbers. Katie takes no responsibility for them.

Comment 108 comments  |  5 recs  | 

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Comments

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Just to throw in a little more data

Runs scored – 739.3
Defensive runs saved – 11.6

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 11:31 AM EST reply actions  

Is the bulk of defensive runs saved

Cain > Melky I assume?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 14, 2012 8:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Not really

ZiPS projects Cain to be merely average in CF. The only players with significant positive numbers here are Escobar and Perez. They account for most of the net 11.6 runs saved. Most other players are a little positive or a little negative and mostly they cancel each other out.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 8:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Well, my philosophy was that the projection system isn’t actually making guesses as to how players will be used and how often they’ll play, so I feel comfortable adjusting that. But for actual performance projections, I’m going to stick with what the projection system says and we can just take pieces here and there with a grain of salt.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 8:39 PM EST up reply actions  

That was using a FIP-based RA, by the way. An ERA-based RA for the Royals would lead to a lower projected win total.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 11:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Sounds encouraging

Nice work.

I think the playing time assumptions are a little optimistic for our batters and relief pitchers, but our depth in those areas would probably mean that any drop-off caused by having the back-ups play would be minimalized.

I think the starting pitching assumptions look pretty good — I actually expect that each SP will vary greatly from their individual projections, but as a whole, the staff will be close to the staff’s combined projection.

by Loose Seal on Jan 14, 2012 12:22 PM EST reply actions  

Can someone please explain this part to me

I used Pythag (with an exponent of 1.884 based on last year’s run environment)

I know how Pythag works, but I thought it was Runs Scored^2/(Runs Scored^2 + Runs Allowed^2)

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2012 12:43 PM EST reply actions  

That’s the basic version. But there are more refined versions using an exponent more tailored to a given run environment. In reality, I think the different versions only give rise to significantly different results when you have extreme RS and RA values.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

so do you just replace the squred with the 1.884?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2012 2:14 PM EST up reply actions  

Yes

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 2:16 PM EST up reply actions  

by changing the exponent

it only changes the value .03 for the FIP values, and .19 for the ERA values.

Is this really that significant? I guess I just don’t get the point in that kind of precision when you are just trying to ball park the numbers.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2012 2:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Not significant

Just a little more accurate of a reflection of how those runs should represent wins. The difference does increase the RA and RS get further away from each other, I believe.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 2:56 PM EST up reply actions  

can I get the cliffs notes

on how you guys came to the 1.884?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2012 2:59 PM EST up reply actions  

Nice work Scott...I greatly appreciate the effort and care you put into this

I’ll be pickled tink if the Royals end up in the vicinity of 80 wins. More of an indictment on the Royals, or me?

by Nighthawk at the Diner on Jan 14, 2012 2:16 PM EST reply actions  

Not realizing you'd published this, I did more or less the same thing in the comments section for the ZiPS fanshot

And came up with 77 wins based on ERA and 79.5 wins based on FIP as compared to your 78 and 80.5. My playing time estimates were very rough, and I didn’t account for defense, so that’s probably where the 1 win difference comes from.

Just wanted to note that I also ran the numbers and came up with the basically the same results.

by kcdc1 on Jan 14, 2012 2:42 PM EST reply actions  

Yeah, defense added just over one net win

Going by ZiPS defensive projections.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 2:51 PM EST up reply actions  

But Dan said this club would struggle to win 75 games!

Nice work.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 14, 2012 2:49 PM EST reply actions  

Good stuff.

Confirms roughly what I think all of us were guesstimating based on a gut reading of the team as it stands.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 14, 2012 2:51 PM EST reply actions  

I don't know about that.

I mean, I’ve prepared myself for 75, but I really think the win total lands somewhere in the 77-80 range. These seem to be win totals that are bandied about with great frequency in these here parts.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 14, 2012 3:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Zips is more optimistic than my WAG projections

Which is unusual, because I usually think ZIPS is more pessimistic than I am.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 14, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, I've been saying 78-80 is reasonable

And I felt like I was considerably more bullish than most around here.

by kcdc1 on Jan 14, 2012 11:43 PM EST up reply actions  

I thought you’d been talking about a win total in the mid-80’s. Didn’t you write a whole fanpost about that?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 15, 2012 9:01 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that Fanpost concluded that 82 wins was a reasonable baseline when you accounted for more reasonable playing time expectations

And it was also based on each pitchers 2011 SIERA at that time which tended to be better for the Royals than reality. For example, I don’t think Paulino is a 3.16 ERA true talent pitcher.

So I’ve since come down from 82 wins and I’ve settled in the 78-80 win range.

For the record, in that same “Reasonable Expectation” thread, you set your estimate at 75 wins (and also said that you didn’t think that 80 wins was within striking distance), and I think you’ve since inched your personal projection up to 77 wins or so, so I imagine that you’ll forgive me a couple wins of mind-changing over the last 5 months.

by kcdc1 on Jan 15, 2012 12:25 PM EST up reply actions  

so I imagine that you’ll forgive me a couple wins of mind-changing over the last 5 months.

That’s perfectly reasonable. I didn’t know that you had gotten down to the 78-80 range. I thought you still believed that the Royals were close. Maybe you think being 10 wins away from winning the division is close.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 15, 2012 1:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I think they need a pitching upgrade to have a real shot

My thought process is that the Royals have a lot of young players, and that their young core could easily stray 5+ WAR in either direction from their projections. So if you can assemble a team that projects at 84 wins and the young guys develop a little better than expected, you’re in contention. I doubt the AL Central will have a team that projects better than ~87 wins, so if the TTL of the Royals young core turns out to be a few wins better than expected, they’d be as good as anyone in the division.

But so far, the only significant changes Moore has made were turning Francis and Melky into Sanchez and Cain. That might be a half win improvement if it’s a step forward at all. We needed more.

So instead, the team projects at 78-80 wins, and if the young core is a little better than projected, the Royals will be a TTL 82-84 win team.

by kcdc1 on Jan 15, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions  

What do you mean...

How did Moore turn Francis into Sanchez/Cain?

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 15, 2012 6:03 PM EST up reply actions  

lets see...francis and melky were on our team last year...

and now they’ve been replaced by sanchez and cain…not rocket science

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 15, 2012 8:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Replacing a player and turning a player into something are much different.

But thanks. I always enjoy the misguided condescension. Makes me feel good that I don’t go around acting like that.

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 15, 2012 9:31 PM EST up reply actions  

No, you were right

I meant that Moore through prayer and acts of faith, Moore transfigured the crude forms of Francis and Melky into the pure baseball spirits of Sanchez and Cain.

by kcdc1 on Jan 15, 2012 10:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Is there anything more easily referenced than Arrested Development.

I used to be able to apply the Big Lebowski to everything, but anymore I never do.

Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
alot isn't a word.

by averagegatsby on Jan 15, 2012 11:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I've never seen an episode of the Simpsons...

well at least not an entire episode.

I’ve seen less than an hours worth of Simpsons total.

Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
alot isn't a word.

by averagegatsby on Jan 15, 2012 11:07 PM EST up reply actions  

That genuinely surprises me.

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Jan 16, 2012 2:31 AM EST up reply actions  

I wasn't allowed to watch it growing up...

And then when I was old enough to watch it I was too busy watching South Park.

Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
alot isn't a word.

by averagegatsby on Jan 16, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I remember my freshman year of college,

I lived with five other guys. Four of the five were prohibited from watching it growing up. I watched it with my parents.

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Jan 16, 2012 4:26 PM EST up reply actions  

I wasn't allowed to watch anything remotely scary

own GI Joes, or watch anything remotely lude…

And now i know few people filthier with a dirtier mind than me.

Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095
alot isn't a word.

by averagegatsby on Jan 16, 2012 6:12 PM EST up reply actions  

It Was Revolutionary

In 1990.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 16, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions  

it is more positive than my guesstimate

i’m at 73, hoping for some early festivus miracles.

by BeauJackson on Jan 14, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Was there any conclusions to why the Royals underperformed their pythag last year?

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 14, 2012 2:57 PM EST reply actions  

I'd say it was half Soria with some ill-timed implosions

And half general bad luck scoring runs when they didn’t need them and coming up dry when they did.

I explored the possibility that it had to do with an OBP rather than slugging-based offense in a fanpost at some point, but if that did have an effect, I think it was very small.

Mostly, blame Soria. And hope he does better this year.

by kcdc1 on Jan 14, 2012 3:03 PM EST up reply actions  

Soria's implosions should cast blame a little more broadly than just him.

But anyway, yeah, those blown saves are still blown saves. If it was normal Soria or somebody else closing (God forbid), we win most of those, at least.

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 14, 2012 3:27 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, there’s real risk there that the number ends up much bigger. But I didn’t want to make my projecting assuming that bomb gets dropped on the team. Anyway, ZiPS is pretty high on Gia and Moose, and if they perform like that, they should start all year long, severely limiting Yuni’s PA’s.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 6:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I'll be doing the same for PECOTA and any other good system for which I can find data

Oliver, for instance, if I can get my hands on it.

Then I’ll do a weighted average of the various systems (2 x ZiPS, 2 x PECOTA, 1 x CAIRO, 1 x Oliver, etc.)

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 2:59 PM EST reply actions  

And then that will give us exactly what each player's performance will be?

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 14, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm not going to post player by player. Just the team totals based on those projections

So by the end, we'll know exactly how many games the Royals will win in 2012

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 3:29 PM EST up reply actions  

Win total (ERA-based) – 80.4

Win total (FIP-based) – 82.5

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 5:53 PM EST up reply actions  

This is a little aggravating to me

For the Chen and Yuni money, we might have had Oswalt and a draft pick. Then splurge and sign Jackson and we’re projected at 83 or 84 wins and set up well for the future without sacrificing prospects or taking on excessive contracts. An 84 win projection doesn’t make you the favorite in the division, but it puts you in a position where if a couple of the young guys are a little better than expected, you’re right there with Detroit.

by kcdc1 on Jan 14, 2012 7:47 PM EST up reply actions  

It kind of reminds me of the 2009 offseason

Working hard to spend moderate amounts of money to fill multiple holes in a rush to mediocrity, rather than acquiring just one or two genuinely good players.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 8:32 PM EST up reply actions  

why would oswalt sign here?

close to home? chance to win? comfort with the AL? Someone will offer him enough to where we’d have to overpay to the point that he’d make no sense

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 14, 2012 8:33 PM EST up reply actions  

i will when he signs

he’s repeatedly in the past talked about his preference for the NL and being on a winning team

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 14, 2012 9:01 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm grasping at straws, but all we have left is hoping

that GMDM was right about Chen the same way he was right about Melky/Frenchy. It seems to be a pretty clear majority opinion that Chen is overpaid and/or shouldn’t be here at all, but at least we’ve recently been wrong before.

As for Yuni, I’ve got nothing. Except: Plus Hands and Plus Hands.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 17, 2012 6:57 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think Chen is necessarily overpaid

I think the ballpark suits him and he’ll continue to have success. I just think the Royals had 2 rotation spots and truckloads of unspent money to work this this offseason, and he could have made big enough upgrades in those spots to give the team an outside shot at contention. Instead, he filled them with filler. Chen and Sanchez are adequate and their contracts are reasonable, but with all the money being saved at the other positions by virtue of how young the team is, Moore should dump those dollars into the few positions that aren’t occupied by ultra-cost-effective pre-arb players and sign legitimately good players.

by kcdc1 on Jan 17, 2012 9:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Especially since the Yankees just acquired Pineda and Kuroda

However, BoSox ownership has been saying that they very much don’t want to go over the luxury tax threshold and they are pretty much right up against it now. So any signing suddenly gets significantly more expensive.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 8:40 PM EST up reply actions  

it'll be interesting for sure...

i have a hard time seeing them standing pat…especially with how the yankees upgraded and how their season ended.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 14, 2012 9:02 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, but I believe that the Sox are at the 40% part of the tax

So if they are bidding on Oswalt against the Royals, then the Royals have a 40% built in advantage. $8 million is good for Oswalt. $11.2 million isn’t as good.
And if you assume that they have to go above that to beat the royals, say $10 million, then $14 million to a guy with back problems is tough to swallow

"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.

by RoyalPug on Jan 15, 2012 4:18 AM EST up reply actions  

Great work, Scott

Seeing estimates of IP for the RPs makes me wonder how much impact Yost could have on the Royals’ total by how he uses them. For some reason, I have a feeling that topic might come up next season.

by thelaundry on Jan 14, 2012 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

Yes, Yost’s bullpen usage could affect things significantly. But lots of relievers will end up being used and pitching significant innings. It always works out that way.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 14, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

Anyone want to do this for Detroit?

They aren’t, in my opinion, really that good. But maybe I’m wrong.

by kcdc1 on Jan 14, 2012 11:54 PM EST reply actions  

I’d do it if someone can get me reasonable playing time estimates and all significant roster changes since their ZiPS projection came out Nov. 10.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 15, 2012 9:32 AM EST up reply actions  

I’ve come up with some playing time estimates, so I think I’ll be able to crunch the numbers for Detroit tomorrow.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 15, 2012 2:47 PM EST up reply actions  

So that must mean...

You have Delmon Young playing 160 games and Verlander pitching 280 innings?

by hawkinscm87 on Jan 15, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

I crunched the numbers for the Tigers

I just put them in a fanshot.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 16, 2012 6:07 PM EST up reply actions  

great work

thanks for putting in the time to do it, i appreciated reading it.

Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."

--Albert Einstein

by Home Run Tony Cogan on Jan 15, 2012 12:22 AM EST reply actions  

Looks like the lineup is pretty good

and the bullpen is all right. Zips doesn’t project one stinkin’ Royals starter to perform above league average, though. No way you win 80 games with those guys on the mound, if Zips’s predictions are mostly correct..

"That fucking fucker of a general swears too fucking much." --Unnamed soldier about Gen. George Patton, 1943

by Juancho on Jan 15, 2012 3:47 AM EST reply actions  

Most of this is basically hieroglyphics to me

but thanks for doing the number crunching that helps me feel better about my expectation of a near-500 season.

And Katie is adorable. Based on the clock in the background, it’s passed her bedtime. I hope the homeless freak harassing her in that picture doesn’t read her ZIPS projections in lieu of a bedtime story.

This is my signature line. It is full of awesome and win.

by KC_Satchmo on Jan 15, 2012 9:01 AM EST reply actions  

I try to keep anything about the KC Royals away from her

I don’t want her to wake up screaming.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 15, 2012 9:13 AM EST up reply actions  

then explain the hat.

which looks like it may have been stolen from a hobo… Not that I don’t have a couple in much worse condition.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 15, 2012 11:17 AM EST up reply actions  

He's just trying

to channel his inner Todd Haley.

2010 = The beginning of a dynasty

by ChiefWildcat on Jan 16, 2012 4:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, the addition of a replacement level player should get us like 5 more wins, right?

by Loose Seal on Jan 15, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

You forgot an extra 0 in there

"There is nothing shrewd about running a red light and later finding out it kept you from being hit by an asteroid." - philofthenorth

by KeepItCopacetic on Jan 16, 2012 9:28 PM EST up reply actions  

cute kid

she is getting pretty big now. I would recommend looking into convents.

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Jan 16, 2012 1:57 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

After looking at and digesting it

I’d take their OPS production of six of the nine now: Alcides 83, Sal 87, Lorenzocaine 88, Johnny G 91, Frenchy 102, and Moose 102. Brayan, in addition, is at 87 and C-Rob is at 91. I’d be willing to bet that Alex, Billy, and Hosmer hit for better than their projected results.

"That fucking fucker of a general swears too fucking much." --Unnamed soldier about Gen. George Patton, 1943

by Juancho on Jan 16, 2012 4:02 PM EST reply actions  

They look pretty much like what I expect

The only spot I that I disagree is I think Cain will beat his projected .259/.314/.370 line. I think he’ll hit for a little more average and a little more power. I’d guess .267/.321/.385.

by kcdc1 on Jan 16, 2012 5:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Besides his limited ML experience

Is there any reason to worry about Cain’s CF defense only being projected as average by ZiPS?

by thelaundry on Jan 16, 2012 7:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn't stress it

The defensive projections for rookies and nearly-rookies aren’t based on much. I wouldn’t put much weight into Cain’s “average” projection just as I wouldn’t rely on Salvador’s “very good” projection. I’d put more weight on their scouting reports.

by kcdc1 on Jan 16, 2012 7:49 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, that is a weird one.

It seems to be a pretty unanimous agreement that he is/will be a plus defender in CF.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 17, 2012 6:54 PM EST up reply actions  

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