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Why wait a year before signing a free agent starting pitcher? (the 2013 free agent class)

There are a lot of reasons for Dayton Moore and the Royals to wait a year before acquiring a good starting pitcher. Instead of rehashing all of them, I just want to focus on the 2013 FA class. As many have noted, the next free agent class for starting pitchers should be much better than this year's class. Let's take a look. These are players who project to be eligible for free agency after the 2012 season. The player's 2013 age is in parentheses.

Star-divide

Matt Cain (28)
Zack Greinke (28)
Cole Hamels (29)
Shaun Marcum (31)
Anibal Sanchez (29)
Dan Haren (32) - $15.5MM club option with a $3.5MM buyout
Tim Hudson (37) - $9MM club option with a $1MM buyout
James Shields (31) - $9MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Scott Baker (31) - $9.25MM club option
Jorge De La Rosa (32) - $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Colby Lewis (33)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Gavin Floyd (30) - $9.5MM club option
Brett Myers (32) - $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Jake Peavy (31) - $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout
Ervin Santana (30) - $13MM club option with a $1MM buyout
Jake Westbrook (35) - $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines
Ryan Dempster (36)
Jason Marquis (34)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)
Carl Pavano (37)
Carlos Zambrano (32) - $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano's Cy Young voting placement
Joe Blanton (32)
Fausto Carmona (29) - $9MM club option
Aaron Cook (34)
Kevin Correia (32)
R.A. Dickey (38) - $5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Scott Feldman (29) - $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout
Freddy Garcia (37)
Kyle Lohse (34)
Derek Lowe (40)
Jonathan Sanchez (30)
Randy Wolf (36) - $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Chien-Ming Wang (33)
Dontrelle Willis (31)

Clearly some of these options are going to be exercised. So I'll take a shot at extracting the pitchers whose options are likely to be optioned. I'll undoubtedly be wrong on some of them.

Matt Cain (28)
Zack Greinke (28)
Cole Hamels (29)
Shaun Marcum (31)
Anibal Sanchez (29)
Jorge De La Rosa (32) - $11MM player option with a $1MM buyout
Jeremy Guthrie (34)
Colby Lewis (33)
Francisco Liriano (29)
Brandon McCarthy (29)
Brett Myers (32) - $10MM club option with a $3MM buyout
Jake Peavy (31) - $22MM club option with a $4MM buyout
Jake Westbrook (35) - $8.5MM mutual option with a $1MM buyout if club declines
Ryan Dempster (36)
Jason Marquis (34)
Daisuke Matsuzaka (32)
Carl Pavano (37)
Carlos Zambrano (32) - $19.25MM player option depending on Zambrano's Cy Young voting placement
Joe Blanton (32)
Fausto Carmona (29) - $9MM club option
Aaron Cook (34)
Kevin Correia (32)
R.A. Dickey (38) - $5MM club option with a $300K buyout
Scott Feldman (29) - $9.25MM club option with a $600K buyout
Freddy Garcia (37)
Kyle Lohse (34)
Derek Lowe (40)
Jonathan Sanchez (30)
Randy Wolf (36) - $10MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout
Chien-Ming Wang (33)
Dontrelle Willis (31)

Not all of these pitchers are actually going to make it to free agency. Some will be extended. But I really like probably 15 pitchers on that list, especially the top 12. And if 1/3 of those players get contract extensions, you've still got 8-10 quality starting pitchers on the FA market for the Royals to bid on. I like those odds.

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That's probably a DM mistake I could live with

(the mistake being giving Hudson too much for too long). I kind of assume that whoever Moore eventually signs, it’s going to be too much for too long. I want that pitcher to at least be good.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 11:38 AM EST up reply actions  

Good point.

I just didn’t realize that Hudson was that old. Having a 40ish year old pitcher switching leagues kinda scares me.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 9, 2012 12:23 PM EST up reply actions  

There is that.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 9, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

i thought

only lefties could be crafty?

by higs on Jan 9, 2012 3:57 PM EST up reply actions  

Ho Does Amazing

Things with popsicle sticks.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 10, 2012 4:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Some of those guys might be good next year

But we just don’t know.

You’ve been LEEJUDGED.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 11:40 AM EST reply actions  

questions: does Lee pop out from behind a dumpster with Ashton Kutcher to announce it?...

AND is getting LEEJUDGED anything like getting JUDGEREINHOLED?

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 12:00 PM EST up reply actions  

I think getting JUDGEREINHOLED

Means disappearing for a decade

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

Im the Judge

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 9, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

The FA supply...

should also drive down the price of pitching in a trade, as well…which means that now I have to spend the year worrying Moore will decide to exchange his excess minor league and bullpen ‘currency’ next year, when pitching rates are lower…for someone I probably won’t like.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 11:51 AM EST reply actions  

It's even possible he'll do both

Sign a (hopefully) good SP and trade for one too. It would probably necessitate a $75-80M 2013 payroll though.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 11:54 AM EST up reply actions  

it's going to be interesting to see...

how much pitching the Royals will need after 2012 is over. Who takes a step back, stays the same, moves forward, gets injured or traded, and what will that leave them with? Given the youth, that could be a lot or a little. Baltimore has had a number of highly regarded pitching prospects flop at the ML level—do we go that direction or Tampa’s, who’s pitching prospects always seem to make immediate contributions?

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 12:07 PM EST up reply actions  

It will probably vary.

I’d say we get at least one low-end #1 out of our system, and maybe a couple of high-end #2’s.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:14 PM EST up reply actions  

I’d say we get at least one low-end #1 out of our system,

It could take a long time for that low-end #1 to show itself in the majors. Or are you talking about for 2013? If so, then you are being very optimistic.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 12:17 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm talking about at some point.

My point was, I think we’ll get something out of our current system at some point in the next 2-3 years.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:19 PM EST up reply actions  

$75-80 million? What do you think this is?...

2006?!

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 11:57 AM EST reply actions  

But Moore has said that only a $60M payroll is sustainable!

Glass must have won the lottery back in 2006.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 12:05 PM EST up reply actions  

and took the 'lump sum' rather than the annuity.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions  

I think that Dayton will probably acquire two pitchers next offseason.

He’ll probably acquire one of the top 3 or 4 starting pitchers on the FA market, and then I think he’ll make a blockbuster trade for a solid #1.

I also don’t think that getting Grienke back if he’s on the market is unreasonable.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:08 PM EST reply actions  

I think that he'll "BECAUSE GO FOR IT" next offseason, and not this offseason.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I think Greinke signs with the D'Backs

Maybe the Cubs.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 12:09 PM EST up reply actions  

I was thinking he would probably sign with the Padres if he doesn't sign back with the Brewers or Royals.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:10 PM EST up reply actions  

That ballpark would zap away his home run potential.

Isn’t Arizona where he hit that bomb and showed it on DVD to Gordon?

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 9, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see SD forking over the money

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 12:37 PM EST up reply actions  

Players don't sign for the most money

Organizational and geographic intangibles are what it’s all about now.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 12:42 PM EST up reply actions  

He does really love fish tacos

And he can have all the guac he wants in SD. For free.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 12:54 PM EST up reply actions  

I was going to say the same thing, though not a guarantee...

LA will get their crap together and Greinke will be one of the guys they target to turn it around.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

D'Backs?

I agree with Jack in that the likelyhood that he goes to either the Royals or Brewers is significantly over 50%. I’ll go ahead and throw out 65% just for the fun of it.

But Greinke’s such a weirdo that I don’t think it’s possible to accurately pin down where he would want to go. He wants to compete, that much is sure. Eliminate the Cubs, Twins, White Sox, Orioles, Astros, Mariners, anyone who is going through a rebuilding phase. You can probably also eliminate the Phillies (so much money tied into their rotation already), the Rays (not their MO), Marlins and Angels (too much money tied everywhere). But then again he might accept less money and then go somewhere like the Cardinals to be WITH THE BFIB.

by Yodazilla on Jan 9, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

The Royals would have to win about 85 games this season for that to even be an option...

And even then it would be a long shot.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 9, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions  

Why not D'Backs?

They seem willing to throw some money around now, he seems to like the NL, and he strikes me as a guy that wants to be in warm weather.

I can’t really see a reason why he’d want to come to KC.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 6:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Greinke to the Cardinals would break my heart.

Your 2010 Royals Review Fantasy Football Keeper League Champion
Since 2005: Royals win% = .4100, Chiefs win% = .4095

by averagegatsby on Jan 9, 2012 7:29 PM EST up reply actions  

don't rule out Miami

Zack is from Florida, likes hitting, and if the Marlins are still throwing money around next year, maybe they’ll make a run at him. Less media attention might be an attraction for Zack, too.

Making watching baseball as fun as doing your taxes.
My Twitter feed.
Before getting tweaked, read up on regression.

by Matt Klaassen on Jan 10, 2012 2:02 PM EST up reply actions  

you really like jeremy guthrie?

at what price would you not to really like him?

by BeauJackson on Jan 9, 2012 12:12 PM EST reply actions  

Anything above 1 year $4-5 Million for him would be too steep.

And even that might be too steep considering the SP market next offseason.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure

I think he’s an above average SP. For instance, here are his fWAR from recent seasons:

2007 2.6
2008 2.6
2009 1.3
2010 2.4
2011 2.1

He’s good for 200 innings per season. He’s a pretty good #3. He’s not an elite pitcher who is going to overhaul your rotation, but he’s a significant help.

By way of comparison, here are Trevor Cahill’s fWAR by season (not that fWAR is the be all, end all of pitching stats, but it’s meaningful)

2009 0.6
2010 2.2
2011 2.5

And many people wanted the Royals to trade Monty, Dwyer, and Cuthbert for him, plus paying the millions he’ll be due soon.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions  

two careers

Stats: FIP xFIP K/9 BB/9 BABIP IP/Season since 2007

Guthrie 4.68 4.61 5.52 2.68 273 204.02

Mystery Man 4.65 4.52 5.02 2.87 287 197.24

The mystery man nobody wants, what makes Guthrie different?

by BeauJackson on Jan 9, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I think this will depend on how our starters perform next year.

I do think we’ll acquire a starter, but it depends on if any of our current pitchers take strides forward.

Here’s what I think might happen (For argument’s sake):

One or two of our pitchers pitch like solid #2’s. those pitchers are Hochevar and Sanchez.

Duffy pitches like a #3, maybe a low end #2.

Paulino eats innings, and pitches like a low-end #3 starter.

Bruce Chen totally flames out.

So, with Bruce Chen flaming out, we trade him at midseason for a couple of High-A SP prospects, and call up Mike Montgomery, who has an absolute monster year at AAA. When he gets called up, he pitches like an absolute stallion, and we have a #1 on our hands.

So, at the end of the season, we have a #1 (Montgomery), a solid #2 (Hochevar, assuming that Sanchez isn’t brought back), and two #3’s (Paulino and Duffy) in the rotation.

With Duffy pitching okay, and still having some value, we decide to trade him, Will Smith (Who has a great year at AAA) Aaron Crow, Brett Eibner and Craig Billo for a low-end #1 starter with a few years of team control remaining.

Matt Cain is on the market, so we decide to sign him to a 3 year, $33 Million contract with a $14 Million vesting option if he gets in the top 4 in the Cy Young voting.

So, we have a rotation of:

Matt Cain
Mike Montgomery
Solid #1 starter
Luke Hochevar
Felipe Paulino

Just a scenario.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 9, 2012 12:34 PM EST reply actions  

Matt Cain will require at least 5 guaranteed years and $15M+ per year.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

there is no way Cain signs for only $11MM per for three years.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 9, 2012 3:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Dontrelle Willis?

Does he even have an arm anymore?

Chaim Mattis Keller New York City's # 1 Royals fan!

by cmkeller on Jan 9, 2012 12:45 PM EST reply actions  

yes, he uses it to reach for $1,000 shots of cognac.

If women only slept with nice guys...guys would only be nice. And they don't. And we're not.

by setupunchtag on Jan 9, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

if peavy can stay healthy

i’d focus on him, i doubt the top guys are coming to KC in FA.

by BeauJackson on Jan 9, 2012 12:52 PM EST reply actions  

mark buerhle

was staying in chicago, going to saint louis, or retiring. things can change.

by BeauJackson on Jan 9, 2012 12:59 PM EST up reply actions  

True

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 9, 2012 1:40 PM EST up reply actions  

So rule any of these guys out?

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 9, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

The Royals can afford to be the higher bidder for one

That is, unless Moore is serious about only a $60M payroll being sustainable. I’ve got to think that the recent $75M (and another at $70M) payroll wasn’t just a wild fluke.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 8:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Sure seems like they have $12 to 15 M available to spend if they really want to

Even if it takes a 5 year deal. Spend and win now (now = next year), worry about the rookies hitting arb later.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2012 12:31 PM EST up reply actions  

I was joking.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 10, 2012 8:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Unless it doesn't.

Ask Chen

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 9, 2012 3:47 PM EST up reply actions  

Scott, who are the top 12 you say you really like?

Several are obvious, but it would be fun to track those 12 guys throughout the season. Because Jeff and Will don’t have enough to do.

They also need a name. McKinney’s Dirty Dozen?

by thelaundry on Jan 9, 2012 4:16 PM EST reply actions  

Don't nail me down

I haven’t really done a serious analysis on these guys. But if we’re talking about the second, shorter, more realistic list, I think I really like the top 12. I case can be made against many of them. And a case can be made for some lower on the list.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 8:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's a question for you Scott or for anyone else who wants to take a stab at it:

On average, what percentage of available free agent pitchers are resigned/club option’d during the course of a year?

As in, what did the 2011 class look like in 2010? What did the 2010 class look like in 2009?

by Yodazilla on Jan 9, 2012 4:37 PM EST reply actions  

Good question

I would think it is less than half. I guessed at 1/3, but that is merely a guess.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 8:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Seems like we are all forgetting one thing...

…the demand side. There are a lot more teams that will be looking for pitching next year also.

The Dodgers. New owner will probably add two pitchers next year.
The Yankees/Redsox. Only in the market for premium starters, barely involved at all this year.
The Phillies. Losing Hamels as well as Blanton, they are going to be buyers next year.
The Giants. If they lose Cain, they will be looking to buy.
The Brewers. Greinke, Marcum and Wolf gone. They’ll have to buy.
The Twins. Liriano and Pavano gone.
The Marlins. Sanchez and Zambrano gone.

Plus all the others (Blue Jays, Nats, Orioles, Rangers) who will continue to be buyers most likely. Next year is going to be a sellers market as well, because of the demand increase.

In fact, I’d argue that the demand for Edwin Jackson is so low right now because people are misinterpreting the market next year, that you might actually be able to get him on a better deal than some of the players next year. And really, there are only 4 players on that list that I would prefer long-term than Jackson. Cain, Hamels and Greinke aren’t coming here, and A. Sanchez is probably barely a notch above Jackson. Everyone else is a coin flip or worse on a 4 year deal.

by JonasDaMute on Jan 9, 2012 7:04 PM EST reply actions   1 recs

In fact, I’d argue that the demand for Edwin Jackson is so low right now because people are misinterpreting the market next year

I really don’t think the demand is low for him. I think many teams want him and someone is going to pay dearly for him.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 9, 2012 8:27 PM EST up reply actions  

I think he ends up $36M over 3 with two mutual options at $14M/$15M (buyouts $2M/$1M). Which is fair, and probably similar to what Marcum and A.Sanchez will get next year.

I really don’t see many teams out there who are still in the market for pitching.
Detroit is probably getting Garza. Yankees and Red Sox will probably split Kuroda and Oswalt on shorter term deals. That leaves:

TB-no, BAL-no, TOR-maybe
CLV- no, MIN-no, KC-maybe, CHW-no
ANA-no, SEA-no, OAK-no, TEX- no

PHI-no, NYM-no, ATL-no, WSH-maybe FLA-maybe
STL-no, CHC-no, HOU-no, CIN-no, MIL-no, PIT-no
ARI-no, SF-no, SD-no, LA-no, COL-no

by JonasDaMute on Jan 9, 2012 8:48 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't see any way that Kuroda signs on the east coast.

I’d say he ends up in LA or Seattle.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 10, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

What about Derek Holland?

I see that extension talks have broken down and why not try to trade for him? He’d be a great addition now, has frontline potential, is fairly young, and wants a long term deal. Am I missing something? I’m not up on Texas’ thoughts toward this guy, but I can’t figure out how they’d not do whatever they could to extend him.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 10, 2012 9:24 AM EST reply actions  

Derek Holland would be a good candidate next year.

Cost-controlled, young, and has playoff experience.

I'm a 14 year old freshman in high school with a love for all things Royals and Packers.

2012 is the year we shine.

by Jack Marsh on Jan 10, 2012 11:39 AM EST up reply actions  

I think that's a good idea - I wonder what's holding up the Rangers from extending him

One worry might be the jump in innings: are they sure that he’s going to hold up next season? I wonder if he’d be open to a contract that protects the team if he misses serious time due to injury next season, maybe $5M to 10M per season (maybe half the contract?) guaranteed with the rest in playing time bonuses?

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont understand why people keep proposing deals like this...

no player or agent would ever take a deal like that…might as well propose ‘lets offer him a million a year for the next 10’

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2012 1:09 PM EST up reply actions  

just like no one would ever walk away from $12M and retire

What if he doesn’t extend, then gets injured? Then he has no security.

You of all people should be willing to consider alternatives to the status quo of “contracts are done a certain way and that is that”.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2012 1:39 PM EST up reply actions  

in signing a pre-FA extension, a player is already foregoing a huge amount of money in return for security. now, you want to cut that in half?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Jan 10, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

I was just proposing a different way of approaching the contract, assuming that

injury risk is what’s holding things up (which could be totally wrong). The question mark indicates it’s just a guess as to what’s fair (“maybe half the contract?”). Maybe Holland would rather have half of $75M-ish guaranteed compared to none of $75M-ish guaranteed. ($75M is 5 at $15M, figuring that in return for taking the reduced guarantee he gets the upper-end salary. Is he worth $15M per season – I don’t know but I figure he’s at least as good as E Jackson when healthy.)

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 10, 2012 2:36 PM EST up reply actions  

I would assume that he'd want a CJ Wilson type deal.

Maybe not quite that much, but I’d think it would be close.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Jan 10, 2012 3:33 PM EST up reply actions  

I think a long-term contract extension for a young player only makes sense if they get a lot of guaranteed money. It needs to be in the vicinity of what the player is worth (taking into account what they’d get in arbitration for the arb years and what they’d get in FA for the FA years) with an appropriate discount for the long-term security, and a minor hedge on the team’s risk. If the player were asked to only have half of that amount guaranteed, and that he’d only get the other half if he played full-time (or near that), then I don’t think the contract extension would make sense for the player. That would involve the player giving up too much of what he could quite possibly eventually get.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Jan 10, 2012 3:53 PM EST up reply actions  

yes, this whole scheme is predicated on the guess that it's injury concern

holding things up – stemming from his jump from 90 innings (IIRC) to about 200 and questioning whether he can continue the higher load without injury.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Jan 11, 2012 6:14 PM EST up reply actions  

The other bonus of waiting

The team will know which pitchers heading into the 2013 season are injured or coming off TJ or shoulder surgery.

by Gopherballs on Jan 10, 2012 5:20 PM EST reply actions  

That's a helluva list

The thing I worry about is that the Royals are NOT waiting for 2013, this is what we’re going to get. Next year when someone mentions all the top free agent pitching, Moore will talk about the Jonathon Sanchez signing, how we still have years of player control on Felipe, and how Luke Hochevar is going to turn it around again. (Remember late 2011?) He will mention that we still have Chen this year as well as the young pitching, and there is really no room to add someone else. He is more worried about who will be the odd man out.

"Trying is the first step to sucking" -Jimmy Chance

by KHAZAD on Jan 12, 2012 6:23 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

2012 Is Still

A perfect storm scenario. The potential we have for the rotation outweighs Jackson’s potential contribution to a mediocre team.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Jan 12, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Agreed,

there’s still plenty of uncertainty with all 6 candidates (Paulino, Sanchez, Hoch, Chen, Duffy, Monty) so there is a decent chance that we could have a quality staff for 2013 without the addition of a FA signing. Factoring in the cost of signing a FA this year instead of next, and the risk involved with signing SPs to long-term contract, i prefer to wait a year.

However, if those 6 pitchers have 2012 years similar to their 2011s, I will be really disappointed if Moore thinks that the rotation is as good as it can get and doesn’t make a major signing.

by Loose Seal on Jan 13, 2012 11:35 AM EST up reply actions  

As much as we worry about Moore's ability to evaluate needs at the ML-level,

I don’t think that last scenario is something we should concern ourselves with. It’s merely the actual signing that we should fret over.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Jan 14, 2012 3:20 PM EST up reply actions  

I would be in for

a) offering Oswalt a 1/$6m contract with $4m in incentives and a $10m club option for 2013, or something like that.

b) offering Edwin Jackson something like 3/$40m just to see if he takes it. He may not get any better offers.

The lineup is solid and the bullpen is fine. It’s the starting rotation that blows. A Jackson-Oswalt-Sánchez-Paulino-Chen rotation looks several WAR better than what we’ve got now. (O’Sully, Boom Boom, etc.)

Neither Duffy nor Montgomery convinced me that he was an MLB starter next year. I’d like to see them get ten or twelve more starts in Omaha before we even think about bringing them up; neither is blocked, as Paulino and Chen would be quite disposable if they performed badly. Hochevar gets to be the sixth starter/long reliever/guy who takes over from Oswalt when this experiment doesn’t work and he goes down with back spasms in his seventh outing.

This would be a fairly low-risk, high-reward bet, if the pitchers involved would sign for that much or a little more. Jackson is going to give you 2.5-3.5 WAR and more or less be worth his contract. Oswalt might get hurt, but if he does you’re only out $6 million, or three Yunis,* and if he doesn’t, then he earns his salary and you win your bet, and you have him for 2013 as well on the club option. And we don’t have to trade any prospects.

*(Unit of measurement: One Yuni is worth negative two million dollars; that is, $2 million simply pissed away with no useful return whatsoever. Kouzmanoff may cost a mere quarter of a Yuni or so, if he doesn’t make the team out of Surprise.)

"That fucking fucker of a general swears too fucking much." --Unnamed soldier about Gen. George Patton, 1943

by Juancho on Jan 15, 2012 11:32 AM EST up reply actions  

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