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Around SBN: Ryder Hesjedal Wins Giro d'Italia

Royals Rotation Projections

There has been a lot of talk about what the Royals 2012 rotation might look like. A conventional wisdom (which has come at least partially from the Royals front office) has emerged that there are three pitchers who, barring injury, will definitely be in the rotation: Bruce Chen, Luke Hochevar and Jonathan Sanchez. Then, there is a larger group of pitchers who are competing for the last two spots.

Given his 2011 performance, career MLB stats and his scouting reports, I have been both bewildered and frustrated that Felipe Paulino hasn't been considered a lock for the rotation. There's a lot to like there, and it seems to me that his only serious competition is prospects who may or may not be Major League ready. Anyway, I thought it would be useful to see what the projection systems say about the Royals rotation candidates. For 10 pitchers, I compiled the ERA and FIP projections from CAIRO, ZiPS and PECOTA. Then I averaged the ERA and FIP projections and finally did a weighted average of those averages (CAIRO = 1, ZiPS = 2, PECOTA = 2). The results are after the jump.

Star-divide

Spprojera_medium Spprojfip_medium

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If you give pitchers credit for their defense-independent stats (strikeouts, walks and home runs), and some responsibility for runs allowed, then you should look at the "AVG" table. Based on that, and a weighted average of these projections, it appears that Felipe Paulino looks to be the second based starting pitcher for the Royals in 2012. Is there really a serious chance Moore and Yost could fail to include Paulino in the rotation? I certainly hope not.* It will definitely be #1 on my "worst moves possible" for 2012.

Conspicuously absent from the above lists is Aaron Crow. His projections came primarily from his 2011 stats as a reliever. I didn't want to include them side-by-side with pitchers whose projections are based primarily on their stats as starting pitchers. It would require some kind of manual adjustment to take into account the worse results that you should expect from any pitcher going from the bullpen to the rotation. For what it's worth, his weighted average was 4.37. You've got to add at least half a run to that if he's a starter. That would put him at about the same level as Luis Mendoza and Vin Mazzaro.

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If Paulino really does get moved to the pen (inexplicably)

then Dayton deserves a kick in the balls. I’m hoping that sort of talk has been more about some sort of veiled motivational ploy for Felipe.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 14, 2012 11:42 AM EST reply actions  

Count me as a Paulino fan as well...

Also… would be interested to see an article on the worst preseason projections for a pitching staff that eventually made the postseason. IF the Royals make the postseason this year (if…), I’d think this rotation would be right up there.

MAJOR LEAGUE (The Royals)
Rachel Phelps (Royals Management): I think he'll fit right in with our team concept.
Charlie Donovan (Royals Fans): That reminds me, I was going to ask you. What exactly *is* our team concept?

by Royals Medic on Feb 14, 2012 11:45 AM EST reply actions  

YOU FORGOT TO PROJECT PITCHER WINS

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 14, 2012 11:55 AM EST reply actions   1 recs

Hah!

I saw a reputable ESPN reporter end his evaluation based on past wins in article a few days ago. I was actually mildly with his analysis until that epic failure. Seriously. I mean, people knew to discount wins as any kind of viable metric even before the so-called sabermetric revolution. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Feb 14, 2012 11:57 AM EST up reply actions  

Let's not overreact

Weren’t the comments after the season was over to the effect that they didn’t want to “guarantee” Paulino a spot because they wanted to keep him motivated? He had a really good season, but he doesn’t have a track record that inspires confidence in sustained success. What’s the harm in not guaranteeing something? Let’s see how this plays out.

by Stache by Sheridan on Feb 14, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

Strikeout and walk rates are the best indicators of future success

Paulino’s career is 8.28 K/9 (20.7% K%) and 3.75 BB/9 (9.4% BB%). A 2.21 K/BB ratio is a strong indicator of future success.

by Gopherballs on Feb 14, 2012 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I do think it was more GM-speak than anything,

be it motivational tactic or not. Deciding to answer the question at all is a bit odd, and so is the answer he gave. But his hands were tied, I think: a) he was only going to list 3 pitchers at max (he’s not going to verbally lock down 4 or 5 spots), b) Chen and Sanchez had to be listed b/c they were just acquired/re-signed, and c) Hoch actually is a lock in the sense that he’s a veteran and almost certainly going to be one of the top 5. So, Paulino got left out b/c of the logistics of answering the question more than anything, IMO.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 14, 2012 3:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Several thoughts: ...

1. I think we should view Crow as a rotation lock. Call it a feel or an intuition, but I think they’re going to leave him in the rotation for at least the first half of the season—-barring an EPIC FAIL.

2. On Paulino, I can see him on the staff in some fashion.

3. Let’s not forget mid-season trade possibilities (e.g. Chen, Sanchez).

4. This kind of numerical analysis is difficult if not impossible in relation to the development of Crow, Duffy, and Montgomery. The truth is that we just have no idea how our young pitchers are going to perform and develop over six months. – TL

"Sir,--It has been wittily remarked that there are three kinds of falsehood: the first is a 'fib,' the second is a downright lie, and the third and most aggravated is statistics." *The National Observer* (June 13, 1891): p. 93-94.

by timlacy on Feb 14, 2012 11:56 AM EST reply actions  

We don’t even know if he’s going to start the season in the rotation, much less how long they’ll leave him there. He’s going to get a look as a SP in spring training. So far, that’s all they’ve said. I don’t know why anyone would assume that Crow is definitely going into the KC rotation, or even that it is likely at this point.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions  

Intuition is as intuition does.

by kcdc1 on Feb 14, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Not sure how much you'd have to add to Crow's projection to adjust for the reliever-to-starter switch

I seem to recall some projections giving him both starting and relieving innings which would tangle things up even more.

by kcdc1 on Feb 14, 2012 11:59 AM EST reply actions  

Vincent Michael Mazzaro 1986-2057

“At Least He Was Better Than Sean O’Sullivan”

by Gopherballs on Feb 14, 2012 12:20 PM EST up reply actions  

Jimmy Gobble Thinks

He does a hell of a job.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Feb 14, 2012 7:23 PM EST up reply actions  

CAIRO has Paulino's FIP the best

Yet it has his ERA projected the highest. Does this mean they project our defense to be the poorest of the three systems? I see this seems to be true with a lot of the pitchers. Sorry if this is a dumb question, my familiarity or knowledge of the systems isn’t very vast.

by DannyDavis on Feb 14, 2012 12:41 PM EST reply actions  

It means they project ERA based on past ERA

And FIP (or FIP components) based on past FIP (or FIP components).

Paulino statistical record includes good peripherals and crummy ERA’s. In projecting next year’s ERA, many systems will put a heavy weighting on past peripherals as well as past ERA which tends to bring the ERA and FIP projections together. I don’t think CAIRO does this, so CAIRO’s ERA and FIP projections can be farther apart than other systems’ ERA and FIP projections.

by kcdc1 on Feb 14, 2012 12:48 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

Good job. Makes sense.

Sánchez – Paulino – Chen – Hochevar – Montgomery/Duffy is probably the way it’s going to work out. Those six guys are going to have to be at least decent because we have nothing behind them.

I still like my idea of a four-man rotation of two-man stacks. Everybody else hates it. Well, jeez, we got nothing to lose and a whole bunch of lousy pitchers, so why not try it?

"That fucking fucker of a general swears too fucking much." --Unnamed soldier about Gen. George Patton, 1943

by Juancho on Feb 14, 2012 1:07 PM EST reply actions  

Sánchez – Paulino – Chen – Hochevar – Montgomery/Duffy is probably the way it’s going to work out.

I really feel like the optimal outcome would be starting with that rotation, including probably Duffy. Then Monty gets half a season to hopefully improve at AAA. In July Sanchez (or god willing Chen) is traded to a contender and Monty is promoted.

I still like my idea of a four-man rotation of two-man stacks. Everybody else hates it. Well, jeez, we got nothing to lose and a whole bunch of lousy pitchers, so why not try it?

I like it in theory, but I have two problems with it. First, I think you want to develop young pitchers (especially Duffy and Monty) in the way that will help them hopefully become good or great SP’s who can go deep into games and pitch 200+ innings (eventually). And I think it hurts their development to become that kind of pitcher when they are starting paired with someone else, with the idea that they pitch 3-4 innings and get pulled as soon as things start to go south. Second, while I like having one or two rotation spots as a “stack”, I think if you have four, that will leave a pretty thin bullpen. Now the bullpen wouldn’t be needed to pitch as many innings, but I still think the balance would be off there. It would only leave 3 pure relievers and things could get tight quickly.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

No love for Adcock? (Happy Valentine's Day?)

Or Teaford? (almost called him Teahen)

At least they provide some depth, in that they can impersonate a starter if necessary, probably not too dissimilar from where Duffy/Monty are now.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 14, 2012 3:59 PM EST up reply actions  

These projections for Teaford are terrible

There is no reason at all to assume that he will be worse than O’Sullivan, Mendoza and Mazzaro.

by Bronzillo on Feb 14, 2012 2:24 PM EST reply actions  

His 2011 FIP

Was 4.96 as a SP and 5.24 as a RP. That was quite a bit higher than his ERA (3.38 SP, 3.21 RP) and his xFIP (3.55 SP, 4.17 RP). The sample size is small (44 IP, only 16 of those as a starter).

Beyond that, I can’t explain why the ERA projection is that high, though the FIP projections are not surprising. Hopefully someone else can shed light on that. I am hopeful that Teaford can be a useful long reliever and spot starter and eat some innings this year, and that consequently Mazzaro, Mendoza or SOS would be a little less likely to spend much if any time in KC.

by thelaundry on Feb 14, 2012 3:18 PM EST up reply actions  

Teaford's xFIP (3.95), SIERA (4.01) and ERA (3.27) were much better than his FIP (5.14)

I see why the FIP projections have him where they have him, not as much with the ERA ones. But it seems like with such a small bit to go off, they’re selling Teaford short by ignoring the more in-depth estimators, xFIP and SIERA.

Also, as you say, the reliever/starter mix of innings muddies the picture 16 IP starting, 28 in relief. Although WAR considered his starter innings to be above-average, his relief innings below-average, so throw the whole thing out the window, I guess.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 14, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

Teaford may well perform better than those pitchers, but there clearly is at least some reason to believe he’d do worse. Those projections come from somewhere. They come from his major league stats, and his minor league stats (taking into account performance, level and age). They do not dictate what his future performance will be, but there is something there to back them up.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 4:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Mostly minor league stats

And if I recall correctly, Teaford was a non-prospect for a long time, and then he made some adjustments in 2010 and started throwing like 5 MPH harder with sharper stuff. That led to a mini-breakout campaign in 2010 and when he kept the new level of performance in 2012, he earned a promotion to the big leagues.

These types of progressions where stats from 2 or 3 years ago are all but irrelevant are probably common for guys with <1 year of MLB experience, and the moral of the story is to not put much weight in statistical projections for players without significant MLB track records.

by kcdc1 on Feb 14, 2012 5:11 PM EST up reply actions  

How many years of stats do you think these projections are using?

Probably just three years, with 2010 and 2011 weighted the most heavily and those are his best years. Taking into account his best seasons, he still doesn’t project to be any good. I think there’s a reason for that.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 9:05 PM EST up reply actions  

it looks like SOS is SOL

"Things could always be worse." - Buddy Bell

by buddyball on Feb 14, 2012 4:26 PM EST reply actions  

I think SOS is a SOS

Sack of S**t.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 4:33 PM EST up reply actions  

It Seems It's

OK to have it together, too.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Feb 14, 2012 7:52 PM EST up reply actions  

Well,

so long as you don’t throw it in the air, or lift it above your head, you shouldn’t have a problem.

Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.-Bertrand Russell

by Dr. van Strijcker on Feb 15, 2012 12:55 PM EST up reply actions  

hahahah

yeah dudes a turd, callaspos a decent player we could of done better.

Shit + Shit = More Shit

by Kansas City Keith on Feb 14, 2012 6:04 PM EST up reply actions  

We did do better

We also got Will Smith who is a pretty decent prospect. Probably ranked somewhere between 10-20 in our deep system.

by Bronzillo on Feb 14, 2012 7:28 PM EST up reply actions  

He’s a fringe prospect at best. Almost worthless.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 9:07 PM EST up reply actions  

I’m sorry, but he’s a fringe prospect. He wasn’t even in BA’s top 30 Royals prospect list a year ago. Do you think his meh 2011 season in AA has caused his stock to skyrocket? Let’s face it, the Royals just gave Callaspo away. And then they gave Aviles away. I sure hope Giavotella pans out.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 9:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Look at his 2nd half #s at AA last yr scott.

better than almost any KC pitcher in recent memory at that level.

Imo, he will pitch in the bigs as a starter. That isn’t a prospect that is “Almost worthless”

They wouldn’t have invited him to big league camp last year if he was just organizational filler.

He is a decent prospect (not a great one) and you know it.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 8:05 AM EST up reply actions  

And Callaspo and Aviles are SOOO good!!

They made the right move. It really was a trade that didn’t matter either way, but not a bad trade. Will Smith is more than a fringe prospect. He has size, a good slider, and is LH. He most definitely has a shot to have a good career.

by royal_in_cincinnati on Feb 15, 2012 8:37 AM EST up reply actions  

Thank you

Will Smith- 2011, AA

1st Half – 81 IP, 106 hits, 26 bb, 46 K. .328 opp avg.
2nd Half – 79 IP, 65 hits, 19 bb, 62 K .223 opp avg.
(couldn’t find any advanced stats in the form of splits)

He got banged around in the offense heavy league and didn’t show much. Then, like good players, he made adjustments and dramatically improved in all areas, especially peripherals, (over a 3/1, k/bb).

He finished VERY strong.
August: 6 starts, 42 IP, 31 H, 9 BB, 37 K, 1.91 ERA, .204 opp avg,

At the end of a long minor league season, he avg’d 7 innings per start in his last month.

Maybe I’m just rooting for the underdog here, but I LIKE players who respond to being challenged. Count me as a fan who believes he has real value. Irrational as that may seem.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 9:04 AM EST up reply actions  

FWIW,

I forgot to put Will’s ERA splits

1st half – 4.62
2nd half – 3.16

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 9:10 AM EST up reply actions  

And Callaspo is the starting 3B of the Angels. And he put up a 3.6 WAR season in 2011.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 9:39 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, it is quite amazing that people don't realize how good Callaspo actually was/is.

8.6 WAR in the past 3 1/2 seasons of his career, certainly a lot better than most of the other scrubs we’ve put on the field in recent years.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Feb 16, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

Yeah, he’s at least an average player overall. Probably worse at 2B than 3B, but still likely average overall at 2B. I think we’ll be fortunate if Giavotella can become that good.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 10:48 AM EST up reply actions  

FWIW, he was arrested on a domestic violence charge, but charges were later dropped. So not only was he never convicted for such a charge, he was never even tried.

If Hosmer were arrested for domestic violence tonight, would you be calling for the Royals to trade him tomorrow?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 11:15 AM EST up reply actions  

They were dropped because his wife refused to file charges out of fear of retrebution

Are you kidding me Scott?

When he and his wife first came to this country, she didn’t know any english at all. She said that if she knew what 911 was or how to dial it, she would have called the police on him many, many times for beating the crap out of her.

Alberto Callaspo is a piece of shit in my book. A gutless coward.

You can paint his picture how ever you want, I have already made up my mind on that worthless loser.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 11:26 AM EST up reply actions  

Neither one of us knew what happened that night, nor what goes on in their relationship. For some reason you feel confident that you know precisely what happened. Are you a close friend of the family or perhaps a relation of theirs?

I’m willing to condemn a guy for what he’s been convicted of. And Callaspo was not convicted; he was not even tried. Why? I don’t know. Maybe Callaspo kicked his wife and she later decided not to press charges. There are many reasons this might happen. Maybe it didn’t happen at all. We really don’t know what happened.

But since you are so quick to condemn Callaspo as a horrible person, I will ask you again: if Hosmer were arrested for domestic violence tonight, would you want the Royals to trade him tomorrow?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 11:41 AM EST up reply actions  

Excerpts from statements made by Paola Callaspo

in an ’07 Arizona police report

According to the report, Paola told Phoenix police that Callaspo hit and kicked her during the altercation Thursday. But more chilling were the details she told police regarding incidents that occurred within the past four weeks.

Paola said that after an argument May 2, she struggled with a knife-wielding Callaspo, coming away with a half-inch cut on the right side of her face.

She also said that while at a hotel in San Francisco, where the Diamondbacks played the Giants from April 20-22, Callaspo struck her about three times on the side of her head with a fist. Their 17-month-old son, Igor, was sleeping, but Paola said he woke up when she began to scream. Paola told police that Callaspo “picked Igor up and threw him back onto the bed, causing Igor to strike his head on the headboard.”

also,

After arguing, Callaspo struck her three times in the upper chest with an open palm and punched her in the stomach. She also alleged that he kicked her in the left thigh and the left-buttocks area.

Paola, who like Callaspo is a native of Venezuela and who said she has been living in Arizona for about a month, told police that she never reported previous incidents because she did not know how to contact the police. She said a friend recently told her she could dial 911.

Yeah so, I am going to go ahead and take her word for it rather than what he, or his MLB funded, high priced lawyer has to say on the incident.

Piece. Of. Shit.

source

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 11:58 AM EST up reply actions  

Isn’t it true that what we have here is one person saying one thing and one person saying something else? (Callaspo has denied the above). Why is it that she is completely trustworthy and she is completely untrustworthy? And if this is all true, why is she still with him to this day? Did the friend who told her about 911 not tell her about divorce laws in the USA?

If Hosmer’s girlfriend were quoted in the paper saying that Hosmer did things like that to her, would you immediately believe each of those things and conclude that he is a piece of shit as well?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 12:04 PM EST up reply actions  

Really Scott? Really?

She has no reason to lie, He has EVERY REASON IN THE WORLD to lie.

Regarding Hosmer, I won’t respond to your silly hypotheticals beyond saying, If you were arrested for beating your wife and throwing your daughter against the headboard, I would hope you would go to jail.

That goes for Mike Tyson, or Obama or my brother or anybody.

We all know that the rich and famous can get away with almost anything if they have enough money and support.

In conclusion, I am highly suspicious that Callaspo has gotten away with felony abuse of his wife many, many times over and as a result, i have formed an opinion of him based on the information available.

You of course, are also free to believe whatever you want.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 12:26 PM EST up reply actions  

it doesn't add up billy

again, I am much more inclined to believe her than him.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 12:35 PM EST up reply actions  

im supposed to believe without question...

that he beat her repeatedly, yet she stayed with him? and feel sorry for her?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 12:39 PM EST up reply actions  

Happens all the time

domestic abusee’s rarely leave. Its a statistical fact.

For whatever reason (fear, depression, etc), they get caught up in the “victim” role.

Humans are often unavoidably self destructive.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 12:45 PM EST up reply actions  

then i dont feel all that sorry for her...

nor does it necessarily make her story more believable.

if police thought her story was credible, how can they allow the child to stay with them? after callaspo allegedly threw him across the room into a headboard

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 12:51 PM EST up reply actions  

a good question.

I just find it highly unlikely she would just fabricate all of this out of the blue.

She had been in America one month, hardly knew anybody, couldn’t speak english, and Callaspo wasn’t all that rich at the time. He might have still been just a minorleaguer.

I think she was seriously scared for her life after many months of abuse.

Venezuela is largely a 3rd world country. I think she was mostly ignorant on what her rights were.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 12:57 PM EST up reply actions  

i think its more likely that police investigated her claims...

especially the once about the abuse of the child and decided there was nothing there that was prosecutable.

now, after she goes to police and now knows that she can call 911…his problems with rage and domestic violence just stop? how’s that work?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 1:04 PM EST up reply actions  

maybe he threatened to kill her

and their child.

Serial wife beaters tend to do that.

Par for the course.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 1:10 PM EST up reply actions  

disagree

spousal abuse is one of the most unreported crimes in the US

along with child abuse.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

and one that's taken very seriously by law enforcement...

yet when the ‘abuse’ was reported, they did absolutely nothing….right.

what axe do you have to grind with callaspo? you know much less of the situation than the police did and they decided it wasnt even worth charging based on the ‘evidence’ but he’s 100% guilty in your book.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 1:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I am allowed to have an opinion

based on the circumstantial evidence available. There is no harm there

If I was summoned to participate as a juror in a criminal trial, I would take it very seriously and take all evidence into consideration from both sides objectively and pragmatically.

As it stands, I don’t know he is guilty, I just think he is. I have been pretty clear on that.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions  

the circumstantial evidence...

points to him not being guilty…you’re clearly not taking all evidence into account….

im sure you would have said piece. of. shit. with regards to callaspo in this story as well….

http://www.ocregister.com/news/callaspo-327466-perez-child.html

oh wait, the woman was lying? wait, callaspo treated her well their entire relationship?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions  

So, he is a wife beater AND a cheating womanizer

Thats just great billy.

Your boy is a great role model for the kids out there.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions  

who supported a handicapped

child of his gf that he knew wasnt his…

being shaken down for money and being lied to about a child being yours wouldnt set off a serial wife beater? this woman had nothing but good things to say even after she found out he was still married

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 1:45 PM EST up reply actions  

doesn't change what happened in '07

and the months/years before that in anyway.

I find the fact that you profess his complete innocence, laughable.

….Gotta run some errands billy,

good chatting with ya buddy.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 1:51 PM EST up reply actions  

i dont find him innocent...

its more than likely somewhere in the middle…im just not ready to brand a guy as a piece of shit and a wife beater with very little evidence, little evidence that law enforcement didnt find worth pursuing

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Law enforcement can't pursue dropped charges.

I’ll reiterate that I’m not convicting Callaspo of a crime, but charges being dropped and actual innocence are two very different things, especially in cases like these.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

dont they have the ability to pursue

charges without the cooperation of the abused? i know they do with regards to the child abuse

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:28 PM EST up reply actions  

I'm no lawyer,

but I think they can only do it with children because they are minors.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions  

Not sure about spousal abuse

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:34 PM EST up reply actions  

i know ive heard of it in rape cases

where the victim refuses to cooperate and testify…just trying the case based on the physical evidence and original statements…i dont know why sexual and physical assualt would be looked at differently

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:35 PM EST up reply actions  

Sex crimes are viewed differently, I believe.

I’d imagine they’re needing the evidence from a rape kit to pursue such a case, namely DNA which is more damning than evidence of physical abuse.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

For spousal abuse,

I think it’s incredibly rare for the police to pursue assault/battery charges when the victim refuses to press charges, because the victim’s testimony is the key piece of evidence, and they probably won’t get much other evidence if the victim isn’t going to cooperate. The District Attorney would ultimately get the final decision, but it would be based on the evidence from the police report/investigation. For some repeat abusers/violators, the police might try to be more pro-active in the case, but they generally can’t do much without the victim’s help.

Not sure what the rules is for minors and rape cases, and criminal law isn’t my specialty, so I don’t want to speculate too much.

by Loose Seal on Feb 16, 2012 2:39 PM EST up reply actions  

so I don’t want to speculate too much.

might as well join the party

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:41 PM EST up reply actions  

There's also spousal immunity

The DA can force most people to testify at trial, but they can’t force a person to testify against their spouse. The victim can waive this right (and go ahead and testify) though, so the spouse-victim’s cooperative-ness is crucial to these cases.

by Loose Seal on Feb 16, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

her verbal accusation and

direct account of the incident is more than “very little evidence”

on the contrary, it is a huge amount of direct evidence.

the fact that she was obviously intimidated into not pursuing legal action takes nothing away from that.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 4:03 PM EST up reply actions  

ive been accused of

quite a few things that just flat out didnt happen…luckily, those that matter, need more than one person’s account to make up their mind

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 4:06 PM EST up reply actions  

While I'll refrain from convicting Callaspo of anything without giving him a chance to defend himself.

Not shocking that you are willing to blame the victim for not leaving as you seem to give precisely zero shits about psychological variables on apparently a wide array of issues. It must be great living in this black and white world.

As for the Igor issue, parental rights in this country are completely fucked. I dealt with kids in much worse situations than that who weren’t taken out of their homes until much, much worse things happened than that.

I’m not saying Callaspo definitely did anything, but you’re a callous man if you are not feeling sorry for a victim of physical/psychological abuse for not being able to leave and show a shocking lack of understanding of the issue on the whole.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:12 PM EST up reply actions  

i apologize for believing that people have free will

to make choices.

if she actually was beaten by callaspo, yes, i feel sorry for her. if she was beaten by callaspo, watched her child continue to be beaten by callaspo and continued to subject both herself and her child to that abuse?…yeah…no thanks. by leaving her child in that type of situation AND refusing to press charges, she’s basically condoning that behavior, which is as despicable as the actual abuse in my mind.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:21 PM EST up reply actions  

It's not that people do or don't have free will.

You seem to want to believe in a pitiless black and white world in which everyone can and should change things if they’re not working. While ultimately the onus does lie on the person to change a damaging situation, their lack of being able to change doesn’t eliminate them from being sympathetic. That’s what you seem unable to get in touch with, and that’s where your callousness comes through.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:29 PM EST up reply actions  

i have plenty of pity for people who are faced with bad things happening that couldnt have prevented what happened. a woman the first time she is beaten, any child any time he is beaten, etc

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:40 PM EST up reply actions  

But they're often torn down psychologically

so that their self-worth is decimated. It’s all fine and dandy to say, “Oh, they should leave.” Yes, they should. Unfortunately this ignores their mental well-being as they’ve often been stripped of any strength they had. It’s also not uncommon for these women to have been abused in the past. Their not having left shouldn’t preclude them from being eligible for sympathy.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions   1 recs

by the way....havent smoked a cigarette

in 6 days…after smoking a pack a day for the past 7 or 8 years….that little addiction argument got me to thinking that i should probably just quit.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:25 PM EST up reply actions  

Congrats.

I often think about stopping drinking (I’ve had very little over the past few weeks), and I just started counting my caloric intake. It was shocking what I was actually taking in and finding out what the caloric total of certain dietary mainstays actually was. The first day I started, I had eaten a Cinnabon (the first time I’d done that in about ten years) only to find that it was like 900 calories. Jesus Christ. Never again.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:32 PM EST up reply actions  

im down to drinking about once a week....

and cut the 12 pack of dp out completely about 2 months back….down 15 lbs with absolutely no increase in physical activity

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:44 PM EST up reply actions  

I hardly ever have soda with sugar in it anymore.

Switched totally to diet. I maybe have three on a bad day. I’ve been drinking considerably more coffee, but there’s virtually no calories in that and I need my caffeine.

I have had one beer in the past 10 days.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 4:37 PM EST up reply actions  

agreed

I guzzle h20

and drink about 10 cups of green tea per day with honey and lemon.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 4:44 PM EST up reply actions  

i hate water though...

unless its fiji or evian

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 4:45 PM EST up reply actions  

Thats why you gotta slam it.

I slam a pint of room temp h2o 3 or 4 times a day. Its gotten to the point that i actually enjoy it. takes 2 seconds.

Man, I sure do whiz a lot though.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 4:51 PM EST up reply actions  

pop? alcohol? or cigs?

pop’s making me tired…i dont want to drink coffee nonstop…alcohol i cant tell a difference and cigs its too early but i dont feel any different

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

I’ve never liked diet soda, but Diet DP is damned good. I can’t tell the difference between diet DP and regular DP.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 4:48 PM EST up reply actions  

thats crazy talk....

people tell me that all the time and ive tried it a few different times and cannot do it….diet sprite and diet dew are the only tolerable ones for me

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 4:50 PM EST up reply actions  

I always heard people say that about diet DP

and it is the best tasting diet,

but i could still tell the diff.

whenever i go to the movies, i still have to get a large DP (with sugar). love it.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 4:53 PM EST up reply actions  

I will then

i have seen the commercials and wondered.

diet coke tastes awful.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 6:22 PM EST up reply actions  

I used to think the same thing about Diet Coke

but you absolutely acquire the taste for it. Dead serious. I drink the shit out of it now.

Coke Zero is also fine, as is Cherry Coke Zero, but I prefer Diet Coke now.

Diet Dr. Pepper tastes just enough like Dr. Pepper that it makes me want to drink Dr. Pepper, which is what makes me fall off the diet bandwagon every time.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 17, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Same here

If I drink regular soda now, I get a sugar rush.

by Loose Seal on Feb 17, 2012 10:09 AM EST up reply actions  

funny that you use tyson....

and then later talk about how the rich and famous can get away with almost anything…he spent a couple years of the prime of his fighting career in prison

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 12:34 PM EST up reply actions  

that is exactly why I included

the caviate “almost”

Tyson so obviously brutally raped Desiree Washington, that even Alan Dershowitz couldn’t get him off.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 12:40 PM EST up reply actions  

the case against tyson wasnt that strong...

phone call at 130 AM ‘hey, wanna come to my hotel, my driver will pick you up’….and she said yes? did she think she was going there to play super nintendo?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 12:44 PM EST up reply actions  

Alan Dershowitz,

one of the most famous criminal lawyers in US history says differently.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 12:47 PM EST up reply actions  

thats not what he says at all....

i’ll take dershowtiz’ word on what dershowitz thinks over yours

Alan Dershowitz, Tyson’s appellate lawyer in the rape case and a Harvard University law professor, writes in ‘’America On Trial,’’ his new book on some of the more controversial legal cases in the country’s history, that he had never ‘’encountered a more thoroughly corrupt legal system than I did in 1992 in Indiana and a less fair trial than one accorded Mike Tyson.’’

‘’If hard cases make bad law, then the Tyson case proves that unpopular defendants often receive bad justice,’’ Dershowitz writes. That line makes Tyson wince.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/23/sports/boxing-tyson-looks-in-the-mirror-and-sees-a-troubled-man.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 12:58 PM EST up reply actions  

The two cases have nothing to do with eachother

I’m not interested in discussing Mike Tyson’s guilt thru after-the-fact propaganda.

Sounds like crying over spilled milk.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 1:46 PM EST up reply actions  

you brought him up...

you said that even dershowitz thought he was guilty…just blatantly made up stuff on your part…thats all

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 16, 2012 2:22 PM EST up reply actions  

Dershowitz

blamed his conviction on a corrupt legal system. That is just so weak.

I remember that trial. His mistake was allowing Tyson to testify. He sounded so incredibly guilty, the case was lost.

He has nobody to blame but himself.

by Bronzillo on Feb 16, 2012 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Wow, this really got out of hand

And I played such a small part in it. :(

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 4:40 PM EST up reply actions  

Also,
He wasn’t even in BA’s top 30 Royals prospect list a year ago

Yes, but one year earlier he was BA’s 15th best Angels prospect.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

And he took a well earned step backwards. Do you really think he’ll be in BA’s top 20 this year? I’d be surprised if he were in the top 25.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 9:22 AM EST up reply actions  

I know you will roll your eyes at these,

but Johnathan Mayo just ranked him 15th in our system.

Greg Schaum has him 16th

Sickels, who’s opinion I respect has him in the “others” after ranking our top 22.

I don’t know where BA and BP will put him but to me, Smith is the type of guy who is often overshadowed by the “high upside” divas, but keeps chuggin along and in the end has a very nice career. The Major Leagues is littered with Will Smith types. They are everywhere.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 9:50 AM EST up reply actions  

That’s cool. It surprises me that they have him that high. Clearly others like him more than I do. I hope he surprises me this year.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions  

In a hard fought match,

I was able to apply the Boston Crab forcing Scott “The Barrister of Baseball” McKinney to tap out.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 10:53 AM EST up reply actions  

It's such a rare occurrence, though

Someone may need to do a post one day saluting the few RR commenters who have forced a McKinney Submission. That’s quite a feather in one’s cap.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 15, 2012 3:28 PM EST up reply actions  

Forced into submission

I saw it more as an amiable detente by mutual consent.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 3:50 PM EST up reply actions  

You guys did a very good job

Sometimes I will just give up because I really don’t want to argue anymore (which is rare). But you guys flipped me 180 degrees.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 9:40 AM EST up reply actions  

That 'which is rare' is so true.

When I saw that there were 30+ new comments in this thread, I automatically thought, “Oh shit, what did Scott get himself into here…”

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 16, 2012 2:15 PM EST up reply actions  

And shockingly, I was barely in it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 16, 2012 4:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah,

it was shocking.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 17, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions  

Nice work as always Scott...

But I’m sick of this discussion. We’ve been talking about the Royals rotation for months. I don’t even have the strength to bother arguing any more. Am I the only one who feels this way?

by Yodazilla on Feb 14, 2012 6:05 PM EST reply actions  

Certain aspects of the offseason just become stale.

Like the starting pitching. We’ve been over this a billion times. Why don’t we look more in depth at other teams within the division, or talk about other things?

I’m a regular poster here. But I’m so tired of this talk about starting pitching. Let it be. We’ll have new things to add to it when spring training occurs. But until then…stop talking about it.

by Yodazilla on Feb 14, 2012 7:42 PM EST up reply actions  

Roster and usage variables are going to be what is talked about most between now and Opening Day

There won’t be much talk about first base, LF, RF, etc. because we know exactly who will be playing there and how much they’ll play. But the 4th and 5th spots in the rotation, some of the bullpen spots and the bench spots are up in the air. This is going to be talked about and rehashed over and over and over for the next six weeks.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 9:10 PM EST up reply actions  

gotta love the offseason!

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Feb 14, 2012 6:17 PM EST up reply actions  

This is February and we've just gotten started

Site traffic really picks up in late February and especially in March. There’s going to be 10 times as much talk about the rotation soon. Get used to it.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 9:08 PM EST up reply actions  

Yeah I know.

But I still reserve the right to think that the general rotation aspect has been covered numerous times.

However, your analysis here has been one of the better ones.

by Yodazilla on Feb 15, 2012 7:40 AM EST up reply actions  

Just trying to prepare you

The re-hashing and over-hashing has barely begun. There will be multiple fanposts from all kinds of posters (including those who go dormant during the offseason) about who should be on the 25-man roster, or rotation, or bullpen, or bench. March gets pretty crazy.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 9:20 AM EST up reply actions  

So Mendoza is only projected to be half a win worse then Duffy over 200 innings and he is out of options.

Dayton Moore does not think the Royals can contend and is intrigued by Mendoza’s recent shiny ERA.

Mendoza will be the 5th starter when the club breaks for the season.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Feb 14, 2012 6:53 PM EST reply actions  

The Top 5

Match my personal preference. If Sanchez has a good ST I could see:

Sanchez
Hochevar
Chen
Paulino
Duffy

Like Scott, I would love to see Montgomery force the issue and have Sanchez and his reasonable contract traded at the deadline. I don’t think Chen is tradable, unfortunately.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Feb 14, 2012 8:05 PM EST reply actions  

A host of #5 starters

Outside of Duffy, I don’t think any of those pitchers are flat out terrible. Though Duffy does have some upside because he has good stuff (if only I had nickel for every pitcher that had “good stuff” and never made it).

I could see not one of those starters posting an ERA under 4 or above 4.5. Sure that’s not good, but it’s not as bad as we’ve seen in some years.

"Poker, poker, it's all skill. Start with the worst hand and go uphill" - Mike Matusow

by Kim DeJesus on Feb 15, 2012 12:05 AM EST up reply actions  

Kyle Davies had good stuff

but I'm sure that's not who you are talking about right

by Yodazilla on Feb 15, 2012 7:41 AM EST up reply actions  

of course not

Everyone remembers that amazing September Davies had that one year. So he’s on the “guys with good stuff that were awesome pitchers” list.

"Poker, poker, it's all skill. Start with the worst hand and go uphill" - Mike Matusow

by Kim DeJesus on Feb 15, 2012 3:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Playing GM here, but

I think Paulino is the best pitcher the Royals have. I hope he gets a fair shot to start. But I think he will. Paulino could be GMDM’s next big find; and I do not think GMDM will discard him.

Plus, let’s be honest. The whole rotation is poor. If Paulino pitches well they will find a place for him

by Jacob Mac on Feb 14, 2012 8:53 PM EST reply actions  

Paulino could be GMDM’s next big find; and I do not think GMDM will discard him.

I don’t think he’ll discard him, but I do think it is possible that he and Yost will underuse and misuse him. Moore could focus too much on the “these starters don’t go long enough into games” issue and think he really needs a good long reliever, and use that ass backwards illogic to push Paulino to the bullpen. But I won’t condemn Moore for this mistake unless and until he makes it. I am somewhat concerned though.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 14, 2012 9:12 PM EST up reply actions  

if he really wants his starters to go long innings shouldnt he want the guy who had 1 start that lasted under 5 innings in that rotation?

if you’re going to have a long man in that scenario, you dont make it be the one guy who consistently gives you innings

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 14, 2012 11:42 PM EST up reply actions  

With the Royals anything is possible, but

I really hope Paulino gets a fair shake. I think a lot of times teams rely too heavily on potential in the big leagues rather than results. I think that is especially true of the Royals.

But I think Paulino will force the issue. At least I hope he does.

by Jacob Mac on Feb 15, 2012 3:41 PM EST up reply actions  

Here's my predictions

8 pitchers will start at least 5 games for the Royals this year.

As for ERA’s and Innings pitched, the staff will probably average 5.7 IP per game and a 4.5 ERA. I doubt any of the starters are dominant, but I also don’t think any of them will be flat out terrible.

"Poker, poker, it's all skill. Start with the worst hand and go uphill" - Mike Matusow

by Kim DeJesus on Feb 15, 2012 12:01 AM EST reply actions  

Slightly OT here

But what was the general consensus when GMDM acquired Soria?

by Yodazilla on Feb 15, 2012 7:42 AM EST reply actions  

I didn't think too much of it

Til I saw Soria pitch in an exhibition game. I thought he looked really awesome.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 15, 2012 8:43 AM EST up reply actions  

Positive but not a big reaction

No one knew anything about him except for that perfect game in the Mexican League which he threw around the time of the Rule 5 draft. That made it look like a good acquisition to some. Mostly it just looked like another Rule 5 acquisition where the guy was worth a flier, but that’s about all.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 9:21 AM EST up reply actions  

I think there was some angst

Over some of the guys DM passed up. Ironically, it was not Josh Hamilton that anyone was upset was passed over, but IIRC, Pedro Strop was the guy a lot of stats people wanted.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 15, 2012 9:30 AM EST up reply actions  

nice work Scott. as always i am not as convinced on Paulino as you are, but

i believe he will start the year in the rotation. he has all the stuff to be the best pitcher in the rotation, but his problem in the past has been consistency. Seeing him pitch in Houston, he would throw 8 innings of 1 hit ball with 9Ks one game, then walk 6 in in 3 innings giving up 5 earned runs in the next. he even struggled with it last year abit (but not as much).

if he can learn some consistency, then he could be great. barring a Zambrano-esque meltdown this spring, i think he breaks camp as the #3 starter. I however beleive there is a good chance he is traded this year. i dont see him as a long-term piece to the Royals future (IMHO).

again, i cant quote advanced metric to support my opinion. it comes solely from watching him pitch a lot of games. if he can be consistant, he’s top notch. if he can’t, he’s Kyle Davies.

also i think the #5 spot in the rotation could come down to Duffy vs. Crow.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 15, 2012 9:51 AM EST reply actions  

The really weird thing about Paulino

Is his BABIP. His career BABIP is .340 in 347.2 IP, which is insanely high. And it wasn’t an artifact of his pre-Royals days either, as his 2011 BABIP was .341.

So what does this mean? We know that every once in a while a pitcher will show up whose ERA constantly underperforms his FIP—Bruce Chen has been this way for the last couple years. It therefore makes sense that some pitchers’ ERA is always over their FIP for one reason or another. That BABIP might be because Paulino’s stuff is sometimes very hittable, and not because of luck. Not sure about that, but that is my unprofessional opinion.

by Yodazilla on Feb 15, 2012 11:49 AM EST up reply actions  

It's hard to say at this point

347 ip is still way too soon to tell if his high BABIP is something about how he pitches or if it has just been bad defense and/or bad luck.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 11:53 AM EST up reply actions  

FWIW, the rule of thumb is that BABIP stabilizes at about 1000 ip.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 11:55 AM EST up reply actions  

For sure Paulino should start in the rotation

His other numbers suggest that he should be a good pitcher; his FIP was a very nice 3.69 in 2011.

However, while we can’t pin down his BABIP as the culprit yet (for the reasons you stated), I see it as a red flag. I’m not sold on Paulino for that reason; he however should be given another 150+ innings this year to see if he’ll come down to his theoretical talent level. But If he’s still flinging 4.50-5 ERA in July or August, he’s probably not the find that the blogsphere thinks of him.

by Yodazilla on Feb 15, 2012 12:11 PM EST up reply actions  

Tell that to the Chen haters

He has a .279 BABIP in 1164 career innings yet gets “accused” of being lucky more than almost anybody.

not surprisingly, his career era is half a run better than his FIP (4.52/5.03)

Maybe he is just smart.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 12:12 PM EST up reply actions  

I don't think the Chen "haters" think he's awful

Just that he’s mediocre. Look at his projections. A weighted average of his ERA and FIP both put him at about 4.50. That makes him a very meh #4 SP who isn’t likely to pitch much more than 150 innings. And he’s 34. Is that the kind of pitcher you lock down for two guaranteed years?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

Edwin Jackson

Everybody wanted us to throw a Gil Meche contract at him, but is his projected value really that much better? You tell me.

His career ERA/FIP/xFIP – 4.46/4.34/4.38

He will probably be better than Chen over the next 2 yrs (almost assuredly more durable), I just wonder how much. I doubt enough to justify the difference in cost…..yes, yes I know Jackson only signed for one year, but it would have taken at least 2/20 to get him to pass up the better team and the NL.

That said (and upon further reflection) I would probably take Jackson for 2/20M and the sup pick, over Chen….This is hindsight though, as even Moore admitted here

I guess if we had known all along that Edwin Jackson or Oswalt were going to take one-year deals," Moore said, "maybe we would have done things a little differently or thought things through a little differently

because the market for Jackson appeared to be much stronger at the time.

by Bronzillo on Feb 15, 2012 1:21 PM EST up reply actions  

Everybody wanted us to throw a Gil Meche contract at him, but is his projected value really that much better? You tell me.

First, I wouldn’t say everybody because there is a significant contingent here that didn’t want the Royals to go spend big money on any multi-year FA this year. Second, yes I think Jackson is likely to be much better over the next X years than Chen. You cited Jackson’s career numbers, but projecting his performance should be based on recent seasons (typically the last 3 seasons). And his stats over that period are considerably better than his career numbers and better than Chen. Also important is that projections include the application of an aging curve, and Jackson is six years younger than Chen (28 as opposed to 34). Chen should be deteriorating considerably more rapidly than Jackson.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 2:58 PM EST up reply actions  

I hope he pitches well enough to hit that number as a Royal

But it almost certainly won’t happen in his 3 remaining years of team control. At what point should the Royals think about extending him?

by thelaundry on Feb 15, 2012 12:16 PM EST up reply actions  

I wouldn’t start seriously considering extending him until mid 2013. If he’s pitched well through the ASB 2013, then you could consider it. But extending pitchers is tricky. They are much more risky than position players due to injuries and wide performance swings. I think if he pitches well over the next three years, you call yourself lucky and enjoy the ride.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 15, 2012 1:15 PM EST up reply actions  

is there anyway to get ahold of data showing how often Paulino pitched out of different counts?

i seem to remember people showing that he pitched behind in the count much more than the league average, using this to justify his high BABIP numbers. pointing out that MLB hitters quickly learned to be extra patient with Paulino and let him ptich into a batters count so they would see more ‘hitable’ pitches.

i dont know where to find the data showing how often he was in a hitters count vs a ptichers count last year and over his career.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 15, 2012 12:50 PM EST up reply actions  

Fangraphs has it in their splits tab

Baseball Reference has more detail (but less of the advanced stats) on their splits page.

Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448

by SagehenMacGyver47 on Feb 15, 2012 1:20 PM EST up reply actions  

He Has Just

Enough stuff to make it a less than cardinal sin.

I used to be an A's fan until they left town and got good.

by philofthenorth on Feb 17, 2012 2:04 AM EST up reply actions  

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