Gio is Yost's first choice to bat second

"He fits the spot because he has the ability to take pitches, he drives the ball the other way and he's a guy that can hit. This kid has hit everywhere. And if it works out, he's the best candidate for it."

3 months ago HarryL 61 comments 0 recs |

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Yep

Gio isn’t a great candidate to bat 2nd, but the Royals don’t have a better option. The guys you’d consider for the top 6 spots:

RHH Billy Butler
RHH Francoeur
RHH Giavotella
LHH Hosmer
LHH Gordon
LHH Moustakas

You want to alternate RHH’s and LHH’s, and you’re not going to put Butler or Francoeur in the top two spots (yes, I know some people here would like to hit Butler 2nd), so Gio winds up batting either 1st or 2nd by default.

by kcdc1 on Feb 19, 2012 10:43 PM EST reply actions

i'd prefer to see gia hit above replacement level before he's considered an option for the 2 spot...

honestly, i think given the options and the preference for r/l/r/l….i’d probably make francoeur hit (or not hit i suppose) his way out of the 2 hole…

gordon
frenchy
hosmer
butler
moose
cain
gio
perez
escobar

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 19, 2012 10:49 PM EST up reply actions

Absolutely not.

Ill-conceived in my opinion

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 19, 2012 11:31 PM EST up reply actions

frenchy or gio?

im assuming frenchy…but i dont see a better plan without going same hand back to back somewhere at the top….

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions

do you think giavotella is likely to be a better hitter than francoeur this year?

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 20, 2012 12:04 AM EST up reply actions

By zips

JG: .271 .320 .384
JF: .273 .314 .437

I don’t think Frenchy’s a good candidate for 2nd because he doesn’t get on base enough. If Gio can’t slug at all, well, ok, but if he gets on base at a .330 clip that’s likely better than what Francoeur will.

by Yodazilla on Feb 20, 2012 7:30 AM EST up reply actions

as a guy who believes solidly in contingency...

being a big part of how a baseball game goes…

I DO NOT want Hacks McGee taking 3 swinging strikes to help the opposing pitcher with a smooth 1st inning that could lead to him cruising through later innings instead of struggling.

I am the one who knocks.

by PhattStairs on Feb 20, 2012 9:18 AM EST up reply actions

Well... I'm not going to go out on that limb.

But I think that, based on the information available to me, that Giavotella will get on base quite a bit more. I think there’s a really good chance he’ll have a pretty decent OBP that is BA driven. Frenchy isn’t going to hit .300 and he’s not going to take walks, so I’d take the risk with Gio because of a lack of an alternative. Even if I had other choices, I may still go with Gio though. I think he’ll make good contact no matter what.

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 9:46 AM EST up reply actions

I can buy starting him in the 2-hole, but if Cain or someone else starts off well and Gia doesn't....I'd move him quick.

Don’t mind him getting a chance just b/c I’m not sure there’s a significantly better alternative…but it can’t be a long leash.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Feb 19, 2012 11:42 PM EST reply actions

I'll sign on to that.

Can’t leave him there too long if he’s ineffective. That spot in the lineup is just to important – could handicap the offense if he’s not hitting anything.

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions

Ugh - a typo

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 12:02 AM EST up reply actions

This would work well if Gia were one of the best hitters on the team

As he isn’t likely to be, this would be a pretty stupid move would rob the team of some runs.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 1:13 AM EST reply actions

yeah...it makes sense if he hits his ceiling or close to it....

i’d prefer to see something close to that before we assume it is true

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 20, 2012 1:49 AM EST up reply actions

Assuming Gordon leads off

With Hosmer/Butler on the 3/4 slots, who do you propose hitting 2nd?

by Yodazilla on Feb 20, 2012 7:26 AM EST up reply actions

I'd bat Butler second

I think any other choice is just (common) old school traditionalism that hurts the team’s offense.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 2:53 PM EST up reply actions

gordon at leadoff was about as far from old school traditionalism as it gets....

maybe lightning will strike twice

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 20, 2012 3:30 PM EST up reply actions

As far from old school traditionalism as it gets?

A fat, slow, power hitter would be as far from old school traditionalism as you can get. Think maybe Matt Stairs leading off for….Toronto? I think that’s right. Although it’s not like he was a great power hitter anymore. Anyway, I think the old school, traditional leadoff hitter would have the following characteristics:

- fast
- good base stealer
- good base runner
- gets on base frequently
- not much of a power hitter

So Gordon was not a stereotypical, old school leadoff hitter, but he wasn’t that radical of a choice. He has some pretty good speed, he’s a good base runner and he gets on base at a good clip.

I see Butler as further from the old school ideal for a #2 hitter. But maybe Yost will surprise me.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions

But when a guy starts exhibiting power

Old school teams will put him down in the lineup to get him more RBI opportunities. So kudos to Yost for sticking with Gordon at the top.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 20, 2012 5:25 PM EST up reply actions

While I understand the logic for batting Butler 2nd, I’d much rather see him hit 4th. Butler would be a double-play monster hitting 2nd. If he hits fourth, most of his AB’s the first time through the line-up will come with either 0 or 2 outs—situations where it’s impossible for even Butler to GIDP. If he hits 2nd, he’ll have a GIDP opportunity every time Gordon leads off with a walk or a single (which will hopefully be pretty often).

Butler is also a terrible baserunner which makes him a less-than-ideal candidate to bat in front of doubles-hitters. Lastly, Butler is one of the team’s better RBI guys, so that further justifies his batting lower than 2nd in the order.

by kcdc1 on Feb 20, 2012 7:07 PM EST up reply actions

Don’t you think the OBP difference between Butler and the other choices more than make up for his GIDP and base running? Bottom line, do you think the team scores more runs with Butler batting second, or with him batting 4th and some (likely) much worse hitter batting second?

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 7:35 PM EST up reply actions

No pressure Gio, you just have to become the Royals best hitter.

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Feb 20, 2012 2:31 AM EST reply actions 1 recs

Only according to some of us.

If Gio looks around MLB, he’ll see that he only has to be the 6th or 7th best hitter on the team.

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 9:49 AM EST up reply actions

I really really want the Royals

To have a lineup of

2. Gordon
3. Butler
4. Hosmer

It’s entirely likely that all three of those hitters hit .300 with 20 HR. Regardless of their stats, facing those three in a row would not be fun. Of course, the problem with that is that the Royals don’t have a good leadoff candidate.

by Yodazilla on Feb 20, 2012 7:25 AM EST reply actions

Yep. That would be awesome.

If Lorenzocaine hits like he did in 2 months for Milwaukee in 2010, he could be a candidate to shift everyone down 1 and knock Gio into the bottom 3rd of the lineup. Ideal.

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 9:51 AM EST up reply actions

So bat them...

1. Gordon
2. Butler
3. Hosmer

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Feb 20, 2012 10:57 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs

No, I mean if Lorenzo hits well, he could displace Gio at the top of the lineup.

If he can maintain an OBP of .350ish (long shot), he should leadoff.

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 11:28 AM EST up reply actions

Thought:

I feel like most managers pick guys somewhat arbitrarily to fill these spots in the lineup, and then guide them to “hit to the opposite field” or “take pitches”. I feel like this leads to self-fulfilling prophecy. For example:

1. Batter doesn’t hit particularly well
2. Batter asked to bat in the 2 hole for his situational hitting ability
3. Batter is asked to use situational hitting more
4. Batter changes approach
5. Batter becomes an even worse hitter while trying to use situational hitting approach

Wouldn’t we be much better off not to eff with the way a player approaches the at-bat and plug players in the line-up solely based on how their particular statistics fit that spot? Oh wait, that would be way too logical.

I am the one who knocks.

by PhattStairs on Feb 20, 2012 9:25 AM EST reply actions 3 recs

your forgeting about the Mr. Miagi teaching skills of Kevin Sietzer

he can fix any batters approach.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 20, 2012 10:01 AM EST up reply actions

Ideally

1. Gordon
2. Hosmer
3. Butler
4. Frenchy
5. Moose-tacos

But I’m insane in the membrane.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 20, 2012 9:47 AM EST reply actions

You're high.

What happens when Gordon gets on base? Just try to get a rally going or something? That’s not going to happen. You’ve gotta get ‘em on, get ’em over, and get’em in!

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 9:53 AM EST up reply actions

the good thing with this line-up is

Gordo leads off with a single…Hoz homers….then Billy cant GIDP.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 20, 2012 10:00 AM EST up reply actions 2 recs

You're essentially saying

“To hell with it, let’s lead of with our 3-4-5 guys.”

by Yodazilla on Feb 20, 2012 10:12 AM EST up reply actions

Having those 3 together isn't a horrible idea, is it?

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Feb 20, 2012 10:13 AM EST up reply actions

Course not.

To lead off the game? A little more questionable.

by Yodazilla on Feb 20, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions

Yea, first inning runs dont' count as much

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 20, 2012 2:42 PM EST up reply actions 4 recs

Not to mention

it would be a really bad idea to get your three best hitters the most plate appearances you possibly could over the course of a season.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 20, 2012 3:51 PM EST up reply actions

It’s a long season and that would probably tire out your best hitters. They wouldn’t have much in the tank for the playoffs.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 4:22 PM EST up reply actions

Oh really?

MAJOR LEAGUE (The Royals)
Rachel Phelps (Royals Management): I think he'll fit right in with our team concept.
Charlie Donovan (Royals Fans): That reminds me, I was going to ask you. What exactly *is* our team concept?

by Royals Medic on Feb 20, 2012 9:18 PM EST up reply actions

Yeah, you can't have somebody kill a rally with a HR. It's so fun to watch guys run around the bases. Plus, base runners distract the pitcher.

by Rufus R. Jones on Feb 20, 2012 1:25 PM EST up reply actions

run around the bases

by Rufus R. Jones on Feb 20, 2012 1:26 PM EST up reply actions

I guess this means Gio has the

BAT CONTROL necessary for that position. Can he also lay down a sacrifice bunt?

by bas on Feb 20, 2012 10:12 AM EST reply actions

Realistically we have to take Gordon, Butler, and Hosmer out of the lineup.

This leaves Cain, Frenchy, Gio, Perez, Moustakas, and Escobar as possibilities. Not sure any of those guys stand out as clearly a better option than others. I’m not a huge Gio fan but other than Cain, who else would we want there? And Cain’s hitting ability is easily as big of a question as Gio’s.

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Feb 20, 2012 10:16 AM EST reply actions

I would say Cain's hitting ability is a bigger question.

But that’s being nitpicky.

by hawkinscm87 on Feb 20, 2012 10:18 AM EST up reply actions

Yeah, I would argue for Gia given the reality that Yost is never going to put Hosmer or Butler as #2.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Feb 20, 2012 11:11 AM EST up reply actions

Oh and that Royals pitcher needs to report today (Jose Mijares)

Go Royals!

by BabyBlues on Feb 20, 2012 11:01 AM EST reply actions

If Gio shows up with arm tat sleeves

it’s a done deal.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Feb 20, 2012 11:44 AM EST reply actions

He's the 2B

Of course he bats second.

by BlueEyes_Austin on Feb 20, 2012 12:29 PM EST reply actions

That's what the 2 means in 2B right?

by Yodazilla on Feb 20, 2012 1:58 PM EST up reply actions

I think Cain is a more proven commodity than Giavotella is at this point

I’d much rather him be the 2. More apropos, I’d rather him be the lead to slide Gordon down, but I don’t think he is that good. If things go the way I think they will, the lineup will consistently look like this by season’s end:

Gordon LF
Cain CF
Hosmer 1B
Butler DH
Moustakas 3B
Francoeur RF
Perez C
Giavotella 2B
Escobar SS

We should trade for Vance Worley.

by JKWard on Feb 20, 2012 8:50 PM EST reply actions

Works for me

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 20, 2012 10:09 PM EST up reply actions

I wouldn't put any of those rookies (or near rookies) in such an important lineup spot

The #2 spot should be for one of, if not THE best hitters on the team. We have no idea if Cain will hit well in the majors. Same goes for Gia. It makes absolutely no sense to put either of them in a premium lineup spot. Now if they hit well for a while, then move them (or one of them) up in the order and see what happens.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 11:33 PM EST up reply actions

Cain isn't a rookie

And we have some idea how he will hit in the majors.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 21, 2012 12:01 PM EST up reply actions

That is why I put that “(or near rookies)” in there. We certainly have some information on guys like Cain, Gia and Perez. But mostly that is minor league stats with a touch of major league stats. We certainly can’t be confident that any of them will hit well in the majors in 2012 or ever. They are still essentially unproven prospects (who just aren’t technically prospects anymore).

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 21, 2012 12:24 PM EST up reply actions

like Kila's AAA stats didn't make the jump to MLB?

just sayin’ … if we had a guy hitting with Kila’s AAA stats from the past three years AND those stats were the same in MLB … there’s your #2 hole? or even better. I’ve watched this for three years, and Scott is generally on the money when all the dust settles.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on Feb 21, 2012 7:30 PM EST up reply actions

Fire Yost and Moore right now and hire McKinney

not EVEN sarcastic.

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on Feb 21, 2012 7:31 PM EST up reply actions

you think that dayton and yost dont know this?

if that were the case, we’d have seen kila full time 4 years ago

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 21, 2012 8:10 PM EST up reply actions

yeah I think they (Dayton and underlings) did know it, and

that’s why we didn’t see Kila full time 4 years ago, when a majority of us really wanted KILA NOW! … then last year we got KILA NOW … this is really a tangent. I think we’re all on the same page but it doesn’t reflect well in prose!

Christ, you don't need a quadrophonic Blaupunkt! What you need is a curveball! In the show, everyone can hit heat.

by BillyMojo on Feb 22, 2012 6:35 PM EST up reply actions

Let's all keep a little perspective here...

2010: Jason Kendall – .256 / .318 / .297, OPS .615, OPS+ 71, 0 HR, 37 BB/45K

Our #2 hitter doesn’t have to be Babe Ruth to be better than what we’ve been through fairly recently.

(obligatory small sample size warning)
2011 Johnny Giavotella – .247 / .273 / .376, OPS .649, OPS+ 77, 2 HR, 6 BB/32K

I’ve never fully wrapped my head around how bad Gio was on offense last year until now. Wow…

I’m guessing 2010 Jason Kendall was probably one of the poorest #2 hitters in recent history (given that he continued to hit there through most of the season), so at least there’s room for some optimism. I’m confident that we could put almost any position player on the 25 man roster at #2 for the season and they’ll probably beat that line.

by Royals Medic on Feb 20, 2012 9:12 PM EST reply actions

True, but “better than Jason Kendall” is a poor standard. Being merely better than Jason Kendall is little comfort. We need the best hitter possible in that lineup spot, period.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 20, 2012 11:35 PM EST up reply actions