Cardinals better positioned than Royals?

St. Louis has been spoiled in the last 5 years by two unexpected World Series. And yet, the club is poised to potentially do big things. How many other teams can boast the following: a $100M payroll, limited long term commitments and a healthy if not thriving farm system. Go ahead and take a look for yourself. Is there a team that has positioned itself better than the Cardinals? There's an argument for Tampa Bay and for the Texas Rangers but is it a significant gap with where the Cardinals find themselves right now?

3 months ago Freneau 41 comments 0 recs |

Story-email Email Printer Print

Comments

They'll lose Molina in FA I predict (now watch him sign tomorrow)

Freese is old (turns 29 this year), injury ridden, and deathly slow.

This team has a lot of talent in the farm system at pitching, but the Royals have a much better system as far as position players go, and we have control of our infield plus DH and CF for several years to come.

The Cardinals will have a good to great rotation for awhile I predict though and they have the payroll to make some stopgap acquisitions the Royals don’t as well as a better GM (probably).

I’d take the Royals starting lineup over the Cardinals though if payroll was equal. Biggest difference between the teams is starting pitching.

by WURoyal on Feb 21, 2012 11:18 PM EST via mobile reply actions

"limited long term commitments"

Double-edged sword. Limited long-term assets.

Jay, Freese, Craig, Descalso, Holliday.

Hosmer, Moustakas, Escobar, Perez, Giavotella, Cain, Butler.

by WURoyal on Feb 21, 2012 11:29 PM EST via mobile reply actions

Can they sustain a $100 million payroll?

McGwire and Pujols were both big attractions to come see the team even if the team was losing (although they didn’t lose much). If this team does happen to stumble for a year or two, will the fans still come out? And if they don’t, can they continue to support a $100 million payroll?

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 22, 2012 9:41 AM EST reply actions

are you questioning the BFIB’s fanhood?

Pay heed...

by pj_hawk4life on Feb 22, 2012 10:27 AM EST up reply actions

Yes.

by Yodazilla on Feb 22, 2012 12:30 PM EST up reply actions

It's the second day of spring training

why are we talking about the Cardinals?

2011 Royals Review NCAA Bracket Challenge Winner, by process of attrition

by sfeldkamp on Feb 22, 2012 9:44 AM EST reply actions

It's either this or try and predict which day in late April that Yuni becomes our everyday starting 2B.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Feb 22, 2012 10:05 AM EST up reply actions

I don't think that will happen until May

Spring Training has made me a cock-eyed optimist.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 22, 2012 1:01 PM EST up reply actions

We should preview our October matchup

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 22, 2012 10:10 AM EST up reply actions 3 recs

I read Jonah Keri's account of the Astros shakeup

http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/7579203/the-blueprint-how-fix-houston-astros

The Cardinals’ advantage might go beyond attendance/revenue/payroll.

by thelaundry on Feb 22, 2012 10:02 AM EST reply actions

i dont see where they're going to get enough hitting from....

carp’s about done…wainwright is going to get really expensive…holliday is going to age and stay expensive. shelby miller is and will be a stud. i have my doubts about carlos martinez though…seems like a reliever to me.

their fascination with scrappy white guys may come back to haunt them when they dont have pujosl gobbling up 10 wins by himself.

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 22, 2012 10:08 AM EST reply actions

Agree

If Berkman ages quickly and Beltran’s knees don’t hold up, that is a team that could get real old real fast. The Cards have been pulling homegrown players out of their ass the last ten years, you’d think that luck would run out eventually.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 22, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed,

but what do we know? The BFIB are obviously more in tune with how to win. Enough with all this Pujols talk too. They replaced him with Beltran and have been going out of their way to try to convince me that Berkman can hit left handed pitching. IMO, they’d be completely screwed in any other division.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Feb 22, 2012 10:37 AM EST up reply actions

i cant wait til theo gets the cubs turned around

and he makes the cardinals his bitch

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 22, 2012 10:39 AM EST up reply actions

Agree.agree,

betting on Berkman and Beltran to stay healthy over the course of the season is very risky. probably more risky than taking the over bet in Vegas on the Royals 2012 win total.

oh and Berkman hasn’t been able to hit right handed since 2008.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 22, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions

Agreed.

I can’t wait to see how the regression all over that team bites them. Also really hoping this Molina thing explodes in their faces.

I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.

by mitchfreakingmaier! on Feb 22, 2012 11:24 AM EST up reply actions

I think they're still screwed this year.

I think the Brewers are still better, even without Prince and potentially/likely 50 games without Braun. The rest of their core isn’t staring down the spectre of retirement. I’d be much more afraid of the Reds this year, too, as their pitching likely sees an improvement from last year, and scoring runs shouldn’t be a problem for them. Berkman’s 2011 was an aberrant flash in an otherwise waning career. Holliday is on the way down, too, and Beltran can be counted on to miss 50 games. No thanks. I’ll take one of the other teams in the Central. I wouldn’t be surprised to see Pittsburgh ahead of them in the standings, too, and I’d certainly want Pittsburgh’s organization going forward than St. Louis’s.

Sporadically musing on the Royals at both Royals Review and Royalscentricity, pop culture at Inconsiderate Prick, SVU at Munch My Benson and on Twitter at Old Man Duggan

by Old Man Duggan on Feb 22, 2012 12:08 PM EST up reply actions

I would pick the Reds to win the NL Central this year

by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 22, 2012 12:13 PM EST up reply actions

Agree

I like the Reds a lot, not just to win the Central, but to be serious contenders for the pennant.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 22, 2012 1:08 PM EST up reply actions

I like the Reds a lot as well...so since we all are apparently high on them, they'll tank and win 73.

Killing time until time kills me

by EspeciallyK on Feb 22, 2012 3:04 PM EST up reply actions

Plus StL has more money to spend in the 2012 draft than KC.

so their farm system is likely to re-stock at a faster rate than KCs.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 22, 2012 10:47 AM EST reply actions

i'll take our odds with moore and co drafting over the unknown that is drafting for the cards now that luhnow is gone

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 22, 2012 10:50 AM EST up reply actions

Cardinals of the last 5 years remind me of old KC teams with Brett during early/mid 80's.

One superstar – Pujols/Brett
Several good/VG players – Holliday, Berkman, Molina/McRae, White,
Excellent Starting Pitching – Carpenter, Wainwright,/Saberhagen, Gubicza, DJ, Leibrandt
Strong Bullpen – Cards don’t have a comparable to Quiz
Good Manager – LaRussa/Howser

St. Louis’ minor league system is improving and they are doing well. They are a team who could get old in a hurry with Beltran, Berkman and Holliday. The loss of LaRussa and Duncan will hurt them more than people imagine. I don’t see the Cards being better than the Royals over the next 5 years.

by daveyork on Feb 22, 2012 12:19 PM EST reply actions

Wouldn't it be awesome if they just took a nosedive?

What if the curse gets transferred from the Cubs to the Cardinals? That would be awesome. Let’s see the BFIB withstand 20 years of ineptitude.

by Yodazilla on Feb 22, 2012 12:33 PM EST up reply actions

does anyone have a goat they can try to take to a Cards game.

can always try to transfer the curse to the cards the same way it got hung on the Cubs.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 22, 2012 1:18 PM EST up reply actions

What's advantages do the Cardinals have over the Royals?

-More money
-????

I mean, sure, they have a decent farm system, some solid young players, a reasonably large budget, and they don’t have albatross contracts. But the Royals have a better farm system, a better young core, and they don’t have albatross contracts. So it’s the $25M of payroll space that makes the difference?

by kcdc1 on Feb 22, 2012 2:33 PM EST reply actions

So it’s the $25M of payroll space that makes the difference?!

Hey, that’s two Kyle Lohses!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 22, 2012 2:46 PM EST up reply actions

GM/front office?

I haven’t really delved into an analysis of Mozeliak and the Cards front office, so I really don’t know. But I think the engines that drive a MLB team’s success are 1) the GM/FO and 2) money. If Mozeliak and co. are better than DM and co., then I think that’s a major factor in the Cards favor. Apparently both FO’s have been good at drafting and developing (KC appears to have done better, but also with better draft slots). And I think the Cards FO has been better at evaluating and acquiring major league talent. Money is a part of that, but I don’t think that’s all.

Anyway, this is just throwing a variable out there, not really answering the question.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 22, 2012 2:48 PM EST up reply actions

- ???? = established #1 and #2 quality SPs.

KC does not have an established #1 or #2 level SP.

by DickHowser4ever on Feb 22, 2012 3:06 PM EST up reply actions

Not that the BA Future Lineup is that accurate, but tell me which you'd rather have in 2015

C Yadier Molina (although I think he’ll split)
1B Allen Craig
2B Kolten Wong
3B David Freese
SS Ryan Jackson
LF Matt Holliday (35 years old in 2015)
CF Jon Jay
RF Oscar Taveras

SP Adam Wainwright
SP Shelby Miller
SP Jaime Garcia
SP Carlos Martinez
SP Tyrell Jenkins

C Salvador Perez
1B Eric Hosmer
2B Johnny Giovatella
3B Mike Moustakas
SS Alcidies Escobar
LF Wil Myers
CF Bubba Starling
RF Alex Gordon
DH Billy Butler

SP Mike Montgomery
SP Danny Duffy
SP Jake Odorizzi
SP John Lamb
SP Luke Hochevar

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Feb 22, 2012 2:49 PM EST reply actions

This part is exciting:

Hosmer-Butler-Gordon-Myers-Moose-Starling

That’s a killer lineup right there.

by Yodazilla on Feb 22, 2012 7:00 PM EST up reply actions

Cart

Horse

Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk

by Warden11 on Feb 22, 2012 8:02 PM EST up reply actions

Starling breaking ST as the starting CF for the 2015 season

seems extremely optimistic.

by Sweep_the_Leg on Feb 22, 2012 8:05 PM EST up reply actions

I hope that proves to be a killer lineup

The jury is still out….way out. I remember when Isringhausen, Pulsipher and Wilson were going to be the amazing core to a young, excellent Mets rotation. That looked like it was going to be a killer rotation for years to come.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 22, 2012 11:28 PM EST up reply actions

pitchers and hitters are completely different...you know that

unlikely that all 6 or any of those hitters are going to have their careers completely shot by injuries

Fire Everyone

by billybeingbilly on Feb 22, 2012 11:37 PM EST up reply actions

But the odds do say that some of them will fail

There’s a decent chance that Gordon won’t be a Royal in 2015. Myers and Starling are prospects who, statistically speaking, are more likely to fail than succeed. Moose is still a huge question mark.

You may know me as NYRoyal.

by Scott McKinney on Feb 22, 2012 11:50 PM EST up reply actions