Gut Response: Are the Royals Better than the Blue Jays?
by Freneau on Mar 5, 2012 9:43 PM EST
in Kansas City Royals News
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So... you like the Royals better than at least three other teams in the AL Central. By wide margins. 90% of you think the Royals are better than the Twins, 86% feel that way towards the White Sox, and 78% believe the Royals are better than the Indians.
Before we get to the big question, which appears to be are the Royals better than the Tigers, let's mix it up by addressing a few other teams. Given that Royals fans seen to be indicating that the Royals are at least close to being a .500 team and a good bet for at least second the AL Central, let's compare them to a little tougher competition: the Blue Jays.
Blue Jays in a box: 2011 record: 81-81. 2011 Pythag: 79-83. Additions: Francisco Cordero, Kyle Davies, Ben Francisco, Jason Frasor, Trystan Magnuson, Jeff Mathis, Darren Oliver, RIck VandenHurk Losses: Shawn Camp, Frank Francisco, Chad Gaudin, Brad Mills, Jayson Nix, Brian Tallet
The Jays are often talked about as victims of their schedule. That appears to be the case last season. Against the Yankees, Red Sox, and Rays, the Blue Jays went 21-33. Against everyone else they went 60-48. Of course, everyone had to play the Al East triad too, and just about everyone struggled against them, to some degree. The Blue Jays just have to play them more. I think you see the effect more when you substitute out teams. The Royals played a zillion games against the Twins, for example. Well, the Blue Jays faced them for six games total. The tipping point here that third high-quality team. That means that other than the Orioles, you just never get a break.
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Similar pythags...until I googled and saw this:
straight from Royals Review as the first google response to Royals 2011 pythag
I am the one who knocks.
No way we are better...
they found an ace: Kyle Davies
I am the one who knocks.
by PhattStairs on Mar 5, 2012 9:48 PM EST reply actions 4 recs
you beat me to
my intellectual input…. this had to be what jumped off the page to most people.
Shit + Shit = More Shit
by Kansas City Keith on Mar 5, 2012 10:44 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
This
My No. 1 reason for voting no*.
*I voted yes.
You probably don't remember me as Settles7thYearofEligibility.
by Mike Brownlee on Mar 6, 2012 10:11 AM EST up reply actions
they had a better record last year
But we went 4 and 3 against them so theres that
I think Will is too focused on producing some new Mitch letters and...
its crossing over. I hope that one that the full transformation takes place and all articles are written as Summer Camp Mitch.
I am the one who knocks.
I would love that so much
There should be theme weeks, alternating all-MITCH weeks with all-existential philosopher weeks
What does a man have to do around here to get a championship?
Hit me up on twitter: Follow @RockChalkChief
Speaking of the Jays...
I was believing that Jose Bautista was a good candidate to be ’roid free because I saw the stats on where he hit his homers. I thought, “Wow, you can actually change your batting stance and just barely get them over the left field wall for 40+ dingers a year? Cool.”
Then I saw this from Hardball Times. So Bautista hits long homers too, and look who is just ahead of him. I found it amazing when someone in another thread was talking about how similar Bautista was in his early career to Chris Getz with like a bazilion at bats comparison.
Just. Sayin. Yo.
I am the one who knocks.
He has to roid IMO.
Funny people tried to defend him by saying he changed his swing to where the ball barely went over the fence in the left field corner. I was like GTFO.
I basically take the stance that I don't judge the player for roiding, but I want to judge the numbers kind of thing...
but I would really like to know: if players are indeed still juicing how are they avoiding detection? It just interests me. I’ve worked with guys in the past that carried clean piss with them at all times, that type of thing, but I wonder how its collected and everything about it in the MLB. I think the Braun case will shed some light. Are people really using the Whizzinator? Or are there payoffs to the piss collectors? Just something that interests me for whatever reason. I like to understand how to cheat systems and how to fortify those systems against cheating.
I am the one who knocks.
As someone who had to take many
drug tests for a D-1 sport, a payoff would be the only way. In our tests at least, the collector would stand literally a few feet from you, watching you pee into the cup. It would be awful hard to use any sort of device when they’re standing there watching you “whip it out” as they say.
Many people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so.-Bertrand Russell
by Dr. van Strijcker on Mar 6, 2012 1:48 PM EST up reply actions
thanks for the info...
much stricter than the drug tests I’ve been subjected to.
I am the one who knocks.
Isn't this some serious invasion of privacy...
if anything, doesn’t it limit the job to only men? That is kinda shitty. Pros & Cons to the modern world. Ugh.
I am the one who knocks.
Chicks give physicals to men.
Not sure this would be much different than that.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
so are there women drug testers that watch ballplayers pee?
If so, are they like actual medical folks? I would have a problem whipping it out constantly for drug testers. I think it would be pretty easy legally to put a case together claiming harassment if the player perceived even a little harassment. I can definitely see where this could be a problem. What if a drug tester was openly gay? I need to more about this. It seems like the Braun case will make this a hot bed of controversy for years to come.
I am the one who knocks.
I think you're blowing this way out of proportion.
I’ve coughed for women doctors. Men deliver babies. Men give women physicals. It’s not like the woman has to watch him give a sperm sample.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
Going to the OB/GYN on intern day is awesome.
I don’t know how boy physicals work, but with girls there is a significant amount of internal examination. I used to make an effort to find a female OB/GYN, thinking that would make a difference, but then I realized that it’s a lot easier and cheaper to get appointments with a male OB/GYN and in the end, it’s still a total stranger sticking uncomfortable instruments in delicate places while you’re in just about the most vulnerable position possible, and cold to boot.
Peeing in a cup in front of someone doesn’t sound so bad to me.
As most of us here are fairly mature adults, it definitely follows the thread.
And maybe some of the younger dudes will learn something.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
They are better
But 82 wins in Canada is like 77 in the U.S., so the Royals will have more wins.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com
by RoyalsRetro on Mar 5, 2012 10:01 PM EST reply actions 8 recs
thats some funny shit.....
but it just aint true anymore and that pisses me off.
Shit + Shit = More Shit
by Kansas City Keith on Mar 5, 2012 10:45 PM EST up reply actions 1 recs
That used to be true, but now the exchange rate has flipped
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 6, 2012 1:13 PM EST up reply actions
appearently you didn't
see the comment above yours, the exchange rates didn’t flip, they are equal at this point in time.
Shit + Shit = More Shit
by Kansas City Keith on Mar 6, 2012 2:07 PM EST up reply actions
When I read it the first time, I thought you were literally talking about wins
(as in AL East is harder to get wins in, or something like that)
Now I see what you meant. And, yes, “flipped” was the wrong word.
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 6, 2012 2:33 PM EST up reply actions
Blue Jays are better
Royals could have the better record though.
Every season I thank god we’re not in the East.
"We don’t have guys with a long history of being effective in the seventh and eighth innings."
~Trey Hillman, master of understatements.
Screw sample size
Our win percentage was .444 in both the east and central
blue jays better
how could you not be better when you have hiram and trystan magnusson? all they need to do is add magnus ver magnusson of world’s strongest man fame and they’ll be unstoppable…although, to be fair, they lost shawn camp so i guess cancels magnusson, davies, and ver magnusson out.
Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts."
--Albert Einstein
by Home Run Tony Cogan on Mar 5, 2012 10:27 PM EST reply actions
So last year the Royals were better head to head
They project to improve substantially this season, while I wonder if the Jays will even perform as well.
But I think what it all comes down to is that any team with Hiram on it is doomed, so Imma vote for the Royals.
by Prime2U on Mar 5, 2012 10:34 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Yes
And did as good/bad in the central as they did in the east.
We are waaaay better... We're American
They are Canadian … Next team..
"Stay Classy Kansas City"
by Mas Cervezas on Mar 5, 2012 11:17 PM EST via mobile reply actions
Just found out we, so far, have 86 traitors here at RR
And yes, this was a test. Get out of my country.
AMERICA, FUCK YEAH.
i think that the blue jays are significantly better than the royals....
however, i think that the royals will finish with a better record….54 games against the sox, yanks and rays will do that
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 5, 2012 11:46 PM EST reply actions
i looked at it as
If the Blue Jays switched divisions with the Royals, would I expect them to peform better this season than the Royals would?
The answer was a resounding yes.
So no, the Royals are not better.
We should trade for Vance Worley.
I voted no.
However, I missed the addition of Davies until after I submitted the vote. I would definately change my vote just based on the suction that is Kyle Davies. I’m absolutely shocked that he got a big league job.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 6, 2012 10:41 AM EST reply actions
I’m absolutely shocked that he got a big league job.
who could’ve seen that coming? oh…me
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 6, 2012 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
Yeah, that was one of the oddest debates in the normally well-grounded RR community late last summer
Davies looked better on a sabremetric basis than he looked on a traditional stats basis, but there were plenty of people here that thought only Dayton Moore was stupid enough to give him a contract.
Did I miss something here?
I thought Davies signed a minor league contract with Toronto.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I wasn't specifically speaking to BBB's point
I don’t know whether he’s got a “big-league contract.”
I was just reminded by his comments of that debate last summer on whether Davies should have been brought back to the Royals for 2011. It seemed clear from a sabremetric perspective, Davies should have been brought back in 2011, and some people, like BBB, went further and said that he’d get a contract (I actually think the debate was whether he’d get a contract in the U.S. versus having to go overseas) in 2012 despite his disastrous 2011.
Giving him a $3.2MM contract for his final year of Arb wasn't the horrible part
Letting him pitch 13 games in Kansas City was.
Everything I've seen says he signed a MiLB contract.
Makes me wonder about this statement along with bbb’s:
but there were plenty of people here that thought only Dayton Moore was stupid enough to give him a contract.
Apparently nobody else was interested in giving him a major league contract.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
I generally buy in to all of the sabermetrics and their ability to predict performance.
Couldn’t Davies just be that anomaly that just happens to suck no matter what his peripherals say>
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 6, 2012 1:33 PM EST up reply actions
What?
The debate was over whether Dayton should have given him a contract for the 2011 season. By the time we were debating it, Dayton had already released Davies. It was clear he wasn’t going to get a contract from the Royals for the 2012 season.
However, given how terrible 2011 was, I don’t think the lack of offers for 2012 should be taken as evidence that he wouldn’t have gotten any offers for 2011.
That was what had confused me.
I took your comment from the time he was released at the end of 2011, so I thought you were talking about this year. The other comment above yours seems to clearly be talking about this year, that’s where I got it.
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
At this point,
I just figured that he had actually played his way out of the league.
I'm waiting for my wave of talent to arrive.
by mitchfreakingmaier! on Mar 6, 2012 1:34 PM EST up reply actions
Is this an "I told you so" before he got a MLB contract?
who the hell would say ‘i told you so’
before anything happens that they told me of? only an asshole
Glad I came, just wish I hadn't stayed so long.
Rock Chalk Talk
by Warden11 on Mar 8, 2012 9:41 AM EST up reply actions 1 recs
Obviously the Blue Jays are going to the World Series
They have Kyle Davies!!!
GODDAMN ALL THESE TORONTO FANS COMING OVER HERE AND VOTING “NO”
Kila's slash for Apr 20 to May 4, 2011, right before he was sent down: .276 / .344 / .448
by SagehenMacGyver47 on Mar 6, 2012 1:16 PM EST reply actions
This is 2012.
From the looks of it, Blue Jays got worse and the Royals, well, are going to be considerably better.
That's pretty simplistic.
Don’t focus on the additions and losses. Focus on the fact that their players are better than ours.
looking at the BJs addition and losses...
i fail to see how they got worse
Fire Everyone
by billybeingbilly on Mar 7, 2012 2:29 AM EST up reply actions
Since the question is better
Not “better record”, I’ll have to give the BJs the not. On the other hand, how good could a team considering playing Kyle Davies really be?
stop asking me WHY I like the Royals
I don’t think he even got a spring training invite to the team this year.
Important note to all game thread participants: please refrain from asking for, or posting, links to illegal streams of this and all future games.
by Bowling_Guy25 on Mar 7, 2012 1:29 PM EST up reply actions
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