Frank White for the Hall of Fame?
What is our definition of a great ball player? Do we limit our perceptions to how many homeruns a player hit, his batting average, how instrumental he was to a winning team? What about fielding statistics?
No one will argue that Frank White was not a fan favorite in Kansas City, often times rivaling the love Kansas City had for George Brett. Frank was known around the baseball world when he played, but he was not a common household name. This is most likley due to his "blue collar" status (no pun intended). Frank was not a homerun hitter, he was not a great average hitter, he was not the fastest guy on the field. But, Frank had one of the best gloves in the game, and was a key part of the 10 year dominance that Kansas City experinced between 1976 and 1985.
Frank was choosen to be an all-star in 1978, 1979, 1981, 1982, and 1986. Frank won Gold gloves in 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1986, and 1987. White was the only secondbaseman in baseball History to win 6 consecutive gold gloves! Frank led the leauge in fielding percentage three times during his career! He was obviously a dominant force for the position he played.
The main argument against putting Frank into the Hall is that it might be lowering the standards of who gets in. There is an agrument that Frank is not really a multi-dimensional player because he was not a fantastic hitter. Question, how many gold gloves did Reggie Jackson win? Reggie seems to be a one dimensional player also. Sure Reggie could hit the ball far, but his career batting average was only .262 (White was .255) and he was not neccesarly a gold glove fielder. But, Reggie was able to please the fans with homeruns and arrogance. It also didn't hurt that he played for a major market team with lots of sports coverage.
Another similarity between Frank and Reggie is that both were key ingediants in thier dominant teams. From 1976 - 1985, the Royals were a team to be feared in the AL West. Reggie was apart of the great A's teams and %*&@ yankees teams of the late 70's. Both played for winners, both helped their team to be winners.
The major differance is that fielding is not seen in the same light as being able to hit a ball far. There is no statistic for spectacular fielding plays and fielding statistics are often overlooked in selection to the Hall. Admitting Frank into the Hall based primary upon his fielding stats would not lower the Hall's standards. People can ohhh and awe over the distance a man can place the ball from homeplate, but true baseball aficianados (spelling?) realize that a spectacualar fielding effort and a smooth double play are just as important to being a great player. Ozzie Smith got in due to his fielding, why can't Frank.
One of the major problems Frank had to endure during his career was George Brett. Brett being the hero of Kansas City, the popular player, the smooth swing, the great heroics, often out shined Frank. Brett got all the press, White went out and did his job. Frank was a blue collar hero, and George was the mega star. People care more about hitting .390 than winning an unprecedented 6 straight gold gloves. That is just the nature of the fan though. Does that mean Frank should be denied the Hall because he was overshadowed for the majority of his career by another star? No. Frank was a great player, a great fielder and could hold his own against players that were thought to be guarenteed hall of famers.
Frank was not a flash in the pan, he was an intergal part of the (although long since past) winning tradition of Kansas city. He was arguably one of the top 5 secondbasemen in the history of the game. His only problem was that he was a good guy, not needing attention, not needing to make the front of the sports page everyday. He did his job, he gave homage to the baseball gods, he played his heart out, and he was a winner.
PUT FRANK IN THE HALL!!!!!
p.s. if Jose Canseco ever makes the hall, I will quit watching baseball.
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Ozzie and Frank
Most people tend to talk about Ozzie in terms of being one of the best ever defensive players, at any position. I'm not sure FW was at that level.
Of course, this relates to a larger problem, which is that of quantifying fielding performance. Some guys have better reputations that true abilities, and as we all know, once you win the first godl glove, you tend to win the next 3 or 4.
Frank for the Hall though.
White's Career
http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/whitefr01.shtml
apparently, Rob Neyer's a fan, which is pretty cool.
Anyway, a few things jump out. First, White was only non-bad offensively for a certain portion of his career, his first 4 seasons and his last 4 were pretty rough offensively. With BAs of .223, .221, .250, .229 and then to end with a run of .245, .235, .256, .216.
From about 1983-1986, White blossomed as a legitimate offensive asset, with a good amount of power relative to the league and position... He was always pretty reckless on the bases however, and had alot of seasons in which he was below the break-even point of .66%.
Finally, using OPS+, in only three seasons, 1982, '84, '86, was White an above-average offensive player.
That would leave alot of work for his fielding in order for White to get in.
ozzie
http://www.baseball-reference.com/s/smithoz01.shtml
overall, a better offensive player than FW, but not by much...
hmmm....
Back to the one dimensional argument
---------------------------------------------
Ozzie Smith Fielding (great fielding)
Reggie Jackson Hitting
George Brett Hitting (very good hitting)
Babe Ruth Hitting (long ball hitter)
Gary Carter "Hall of fame is easier to get into than Arizona State"
Paul Molitor Hitting (very good hitting)
Carlton Fisk He was a nice guy
Tony Perez Career mediocore hitter
Robin Yount Good, but not great hitter
Rod Carew Brilliant Hitter
Johnny Bench medicore hitter, great fielding
Willie Stargel Decent Hitter
and finally
Harmon Killebrew .256 lifetime average (White had .255) No gold Gloves (White had 8)10 Allstar games (White had 5) 573 Homeruns (White only had 160)
All the players listed above are one dimensional players. I know Brett won a gold glove in 1985, but still he is one dimensional. Frank White was one dimensional. The differance is that the Hall of Fame looks more at the "popular stats" (note Killebrew's stats) than equally important stats such as fielding.
Being one dimensional does not disqualify a player from the Hall, it just depends upon how popular you dimension was.
by rjweathestone on Jul 25, 2005 8:48 PM EDT reply actions
one dimensional
Ruth hit home runs....but he also hit for a very high average, drew a lot of walks, and hell, the guy was even a great pitcher.
Molitor might have been known as a DH, but he was one of the best all around hitters in the game. He had enough pop in his bat to get into the double digits in homers every year to go along with plenty of doubles, had a high average, didn't strike out, and he was a fast guy stealing over 500 bases in his career.
Fisk was also a great offensive catcher.
I have issues with many of those guys being called one dimensional. If you just mean hitting and fielding, ok, but I think it should be broken down a bit more than that. Some of those guys had a very broad skill set.
by brian38 @ Royals Review on Aug 3, 2005 1:25 PM EDT up reply actions
Fielding V. Hitting
Of course, it was also depend on the position, as a great defensive left fielder doesn't contribute as much as a great defensive center fielder, or a SS for that matter.
Middle infielders
It would be intersting to see how many RBI a player produced then add that to how many runs said player saved from scoring. Compare a massive RBI guy to a great fielder and I have an inkling the value of each may be similar.
But of course how many runs a player saves is not a solid science, nor will it ever be.
by rjweathestone on Jul 25, 2005 11:06 PM EDT reply actions
FW's progression
that would matter obviously
Frank in the End
by rjweathestone on Jul 26, 2005 2:11 AM EDT reply actions
Obviously Frank will never get into the Hall
In part I am biased, he has been my favorite player since I began watching baseball. I have worn #20 for every team (including other sports) that I have played on. Seeing the world through "White" rose colored glasses maybe.
Maybe he will become the winningest manager in the history of the game, then he will get in.
Fire Buddy, give frank a chance, even though it is too early and the team sucks too much. Just give him a 6 year managing contract and fire Baird, have glass sell the team, then we can take over the world.
by rjweathestone on Aug 11, 2005 12:50 AM EDT reply actions

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