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PECOTA Day: Bad News for Meche and DeJesus

One of the best days of the year, as PECOTA is up and out.

If you don't have BP Premium, you may want to subscribe tonight, or in an hour, or soon.

Consider this the PECOTA comments thread, part I.

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Obviously the Gil Meche projection is headline news given his (did you hear?) $55 million dollar contract. Here's the projection on Meche: 6-10 in 22 starts, with an ERA of 5.48.

Basically, a run per game worse than Kevin Millwood, and have a run worse than Brandon McCarthy.

I wouldn't put much stock in the W-L record, or even the starts projection (although if the weighted mean is 22 starts, then in alot of projections he either gets demoted or injured... not fun.) Pecota sees Meche's K-rate stay just OK (6.00 per 9), while he gives up a homer a game.

Umm, yea, umm... well Dayton's beloved Jorge de la Rosa is even projected to make Meche look good, with a 5.71 ERA, while giving up tons of hits (9.5 per 9), walks (4.8 per 9) and homers (.9 per 9). So I guess thats good. Well, we have months -- years actually -- to obsess on this deal.

Other quick hits:

-Gobble: 4.30 ERA, 6.5 Ks per 9
-Dotel looks pedestrian, but effective or "effective" with a 4.93 ERA but a strong strikeout rate, which is huge.

Regarding the offense, the projection for DeJesus looks surprisingly tepid, although maybe we've just gotten a smidge bullish on David. .291/.358/.425 with 10 homers is solid, but I want more. Worse still, his comparables include such non-stars as Mark Kotsay, Marvin Bernard and Del Unser. Goodness me! Marvin Bernard? Didn't he lose his job to Tsuyoshi Shinjo?

Has DeJesus already peaked?

Its an awful thought, but there might be something to that sentiment. DeJesus just had his 27th birthday (December 20th) and he has always been an advanced, mature player in terms of his approach and also his skillset (especially once he stopped trying to steal bases). Here's his OPS+ as a regular:

DeJesus OPS+:

2004: 103
2005: 114
2006: 103

Granted, large chunks of those at bats involved DeJesus either playing through pain and/or recovering from injury, and, he is a capable centerfielder. However, because of the Gathright infatuation, DeJesus isn't exactly a CF anymore; as he spent the majority of his time in left last season. This isn't exactly good news.

DeJesus career line: .292/.362/.434
AL Average Centerfielder: .275/.334/.437
AL Average Leftfielder: .280/.347/.449

There's actually not as large a disparity as I expected in the averages, as numerous teams have used weak hitting corner outfielders in recent years. Still, for the millionth time, playing David in left with Gathright in center is a fast way to field a weak lineup. David can handle CF, and in theory at least, there are oodles of guys who can stand there in left and post a .500 SLG without too much harm done. Like, say, Billy Butler.

But its not all bad. Gathright has a 27% breakout chance, and 40% "improve" odds.

And some guy named "Alex Gordon" already projects to hit .282/.364/.511 with 26 homers.

0 recs | Comment 24 comments

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Regardless of where they play him
David DeJesus is one of the best leadoff hitters in the game.  When people are shelling out a rediculous amount of money for Juan Piere and Gary Matthews Jr. The Royals get more performance for a third of the price.  I do think Gathright will improve, so much so that he is a valuable starter remains to be seen.  I think he's a fourth outfielder personally.  Gil Meche, if he at least fills Mark Redman's role in the rotation with more consistency that would be OK for a first year.  I'd be happier if he became Chris Carpenter, but that would be definite wishcasting.  Meche will win what he loses and chew up innings, but we're paying him to do more than that.  
lordbyronk

by lordbyronk on Jan 17, 2007 11:46 AM EST   0 recs

yea...
as much as a I rag on Gathright, I do think that he can help a team, in the right circumstances

I'd love to see him get 4 innings a night and one at bat in the field...

in recent years it seems like teams that employ two CFs in the OF have had success with run prevention, but gathright's gotta hit at least .270 for it to work

and... all that being said, the royals simply aren't good enough at the corner positions to eat too many outs

by royalsreview on Jan 17, 2007 12:05 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

off topic berroa photo
RoyalsReview, in case you haven't seen it, you need to check out the photo of Berroa on the front page of the Royals website (in the double-play duo article).  

It is a classic that should be immortalized here.

by marbotty on Jan 17, 2007 2:48 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

you mean this picture?

I'm actually starting to like Berroa more and more as a person...

by royalsreview on Jan 17, 2007 3:59 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Pitching Projections
PECOTA is probably the best in the business when it comes to projections. However, they, and everyone else, cannot get pitching projections down. There is not a model available that adequately projects pitching statistics.

From Baseball Think Factory:

2006 Pitchers Prediction Accuracy
ZiPS .459
PECOTA .451
BIS/James .445
Marcel .432
Chone .424

(These numbers come from the ZiPS people, so they are probably skewed a little their direction)

These numbers say that when it comes to predicting pitching statistics for the 2006 season, PECOTA only got it right 45% of the time.

That is not enough for me to hang my hat on.

I am a huge optimist - so I see Gil being Meche-tastic with around a 4.25 ERA and 11 wins to his credit. He will respond to being the team leader.

by Cleveland on Jan 17, 2007 1:50 PM EST   0 recs

Chone
is that real?

pitching is inherently tough to predict... i like pecota though

FIRE BELL

by FireBell on Jan 17, 2007 2:02 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Something not noted here
The projection I found most startling (outside of Jeff Bianchi's insane, small sample size fueled projection that must be seen) was Gload, at .306/.353/.456, good for a better EQA than any other Royal save Gordon (.301) and Teahen (.290).

Gathright is a 4th/5th OF. He's a GOOD 4th/5th OF mind you, but still a bench level player. What I find interesting in relation to DeJesus/Gathright is that they are two pieces in a big DH/LF/RF/CF jigsaw puzzle. When they do move Teahen out to an OF corner, then you have 2 players projected as clear starters (Teahen .290 EQA and DeJesus in CF at .277) and a bunch of other guys, notably Emil Brown (.277), Costa (.272), Sanders (.273), German (.272), Sweeney (.280), Huber (.280), and Gload (.283) and in the future you have Butler (.280), Maier (.246), and Lubanski (.261).

There NEEDS to be a trade, HAS to be a trade clearing away some of this log jam. My picks of who goes would be Brown and Sanders, but that would make that bunch really left-handed and it's seemed like a fait accompli that Huber would be leaving the organization one way or another.

by JM Barten on Jan 17, 2007 2:16 PM EST   0 recs

I absolutely agree
And I also fear that Huber will be the one to go, when he is probably the one that should stay the most.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 17, 2007 3:43 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Did you mean post a .800 OPS?
I'm sure there's oodles of guys that can post a .500 OPS, but I don't see how that would not hurt the team, particularly if you're only looking at the subset that is poor defensively.

by marbotty on Jan 17, 2007 2:55 PM EST   0 recs

i actually meant SLG
thanks for the heads up

by royalsreview on Jan 17, 2007 3:56 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

Hmmmmm
I am a huge DeJesus fan, but perhaps I have allowed my fandom to color how I view him. Your post definitely makes me want to re-examine how valuable DeJesus is to this team.

I'm pretty bearish on Meche, but I think 5.48 is unreasonably high. I think he'll be a shade under 5.00, depending on whether or not Angel comes to play.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 17, 2007 3:42 PM EST   0 recs

DeJesus
Apart from the intangibles of being the savior of mankind (according to some), I wouldn't be surprised if DeJesus breaks out a bit this year. It's his age-27 season, where career years happen a lot, and I bet you he adds some power to his already-good OBP.

by NHZ on Jan 17, 2007 4:38 PM EST   0 recs

Sorry that post's
grammar sucks. I am not the savior of mankind, to clarify.

by NHZ on Jan 17, 2007 4:38 PM EST   0 recs

i hope so too...
its sad to think Sizemore has already passed him by

by DyeFan187 on Jan 17, 2007 4:46 PM EST to parent up   0 recs

No one views DeJesus as a savior...
it's just that being a bit above average on KC, and being signed at very reasonable salary for another 5 seasons makes him nothing to sneeze at either.

He may not be a superstar, but if you had 9 everyday players with OPS+ of about 110, your offense would probably rank, say 5th in the league? Even with our normal pitching woes, that would surely translate to a 75 win season, wouldn't it?

by loyal2s dad on Jan 17, 2007 5:30 PM EST   0 recs

By the way, the Gordon projection
just proves what I have been saying all winter - it is just plain silly to say he will not make the team out of spring training. Also, it kind of validates the moving of Teahen to the outfield, doesn't it?

by loyal2s dad on Jan 17, 2007 5:32 PM EST   0 recs

Bad Joke
I meant "de" "jesus," as in, jesus is the savior of mankind. It was garbled because I butcher the english language sometimes.

I still think he'll break out for you guys.

by NHZ on Jan 17, 2007 7:25 PM EST   0 recs

sorry
I like dejesus but he's a little overrated. if gathright learns to hit (or bunt), he could be something.alex gordon, teahen, and shealy could become a murderers row within 2 years. my meche prediction : 13-11 , 4.70 era , 7k per 9. that would be great. but my big prediction : zach greinke breaks out, bannister is very solid and hudson's curve breaks people off. the one question mark is perez. i'm so pumped for this year! sorry if i'm too optimistic.
royaldaddy-Bob Hamelin's #1 fan

by royaldaddy on Jan 18, 2007 12:38 AM EST   0 recs

If I learned to hit
I could be something too. Joey G simply doesn't get on base enough to be very valuable at all.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Jan 18, 2007 11:32 AM EST to parent up   0 recs

DeJesus could be overrated by some
But Gathright would have to improve to about 3X his current level of ability to be Dejesus.

by NHZ on Jan 18, 2007 2:06 AM EST   0 recs

Please contact me.
Would the webmaster from this site please contact me about Big Dawg Baseball.
Chris McDonnell Big Dawg Baseball

by Big Dawg Baseball on Jan 18, 2007 6:50 AM EST   0 recs

Oh yeah, also
Marvin Bernard was a lot better than Shinjo. Shinjo was just a novelty item, whereas Bernard had a good couple years.

by NHZ on Jan 18, 2007 9:58 PM EST   0 recs

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