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Winter Meetings Day Two Open Thread- Guillen, Err, Guillen Signed

As we enter another day of The Siege of Guillen Royals Review asks, whats worse, the old-style stories about the Patriots that always mixed in a dash of moral pablum, or the new-style, 2007 edition, that simply treats them as the greatest collection of men dedicated to a single endeavor in the history of the universe? If life teaches us anything, it is perhaps that everything does find a way to get worse, that everything that was once sweet will eventually bitter and that finally we'll be left choosing between terrible options on the left and terrible options on the right.

If only the Red Sox and Patriots could actually, somehow, play each other, with the winner choosing to exile either Simmons or Belichick to Outer Mongolia...

Onward.

  • As nicely summarized on MLB Trade Rumors, the current state of the endless Guillen talks is somewhere between uncertain and God-knows-where, with Dutton filing a story late tonight suggesting that the Royals are back in the Andruw Jones sweepstakes, sponsored by the Gold Club. There's also a variety of reports on the official site, as well as a confident assertion from Ken Rosenthal that the Royals and Guillen are closing in on a deal. Just imagine how this would all seem if us irresponsible bloggers who... wait for it... live in our parent's basement and write in our underwear, were the people covering these non-transactions.

    Update [2007-12-4 1:39:51 by royalsreview]:

    - And now ESPN Deportes is deporting that the Royals have signed Guillen (hat tip Slayor). I feel strangely empty hearing this news. Like some Rhodesians must have felt during that island's second siege, I almost wish the battle could rage on. The reported terms are 3 years/$36 million, a span that should leave Guillen easily one of the 50 Greatest Royals of All-Time.

  • For Chicago reaction to the Carlos Quentin deal, check out our peers at South Side Sox. Honestly, I treat the White Sox like I treat the French Revolution; I gave up trying to piece it all together years ago.
  • In weird news, Dutton (again, someone better be paying him extra for all this work) reports that ex-Royal Brian Anderson is eying a comeback and is planning on showcasing himself soon. As many of you will remember, I spent the summer in Cleveland, and heard quite a bit of Anderson on the Indians "channel" cum cashscam Sports Time Ohio. Honestly, dude was pretty good on the air, especially when the Tribe would run a three-man booth for random games, allowing no one to really have to try to hard. Moreover, Anderson was a Royal during the last stretch of interesting games we've had, back in 2003, and wasn't half bad then either. So, good luck I guess to him.
  • According to both Will Carroll and the ESPN team, its the non-Santana deal which is holding everything  up, although no one can really isolate why this is the case. Carroll also notes that the Cubs are preparing to make a big offer to Kosuke Fukudome.
  • Still think the Royals shouldn't make a play for Tejada? Look at this absurd rumor.        
 

Got news? Live somewhere random and hear something on the radio? Pass it along? We're all just anxiously waiting to hear something interesting, something, anything, baseball-related.

Update [2007-12-4 15:15:3 by royalsreview]:

- The Star is reporting that the Royals are in talks with the Braves regarding a DeJesus-Chuck James deal.

- The boys at Steroid Nation are none too happy that the Royals have signed Guillen.

Update [2007-12-4 18:50:57 by royalsreview]:

- The Tigers have allegedly completed the Willis-Cabrera trade. Probably evens out in the long run, but I think definitely makes them stronger for 2008. When are the Royals supposed to be better than the Indians and Tigers again? 2009? 2010? Can I wait that long?

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I doubt Moore would bite on Tejada
unless he would be cool with making a switch to first base or DH. His defense just isn't good enough at shortstop anymore. I'm not sold on the Guillen deal either. I can't believe this guy will be the highest paid player on the team. He's got so much baggage and so many question marks. Oh well, he's a Royal now. I will wish him the best of luck and hope this deal works out. I'd still like to sign Jones as well if the budget allows. Then, we could trade Dejesus for a starter and be in good shape for next year.

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 2:57 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I don't get it.
Is Jones expected to sign for more than Hunter?  

If we were willing to go $15 million/yr on Hunter (5 years/75 million) why wouldn't we make the same offer for Jones?  It looks like the best offer was for two years/32 million by the Dodgers.  Surely we could have gone 3 and 45, or even 4 and $60, which would only be $3 million more annually than Guillen, but for a considerably more talented player.

---

I wish I could share the board's optimism on the Guillen signing, but we're paying a franchise record per year dollar amount on a guy that has a career OPS of under .800.  

Granted he's played in some difficult parks, but his away splits the last three years were good for just .288/.334/.499.  That's not bad, certainly, but that .833 puts him right near Raul Ibanez/Kelly Johnson country (.831 each.)  

I'd love to think a move to Kauffman will help out his power numbers, and there's reason to believe that it will as far as doubles, but likely not to such an extent it will turn him into a top 50 offensive player.

In fact, we're likely to see his homerun total drop in 2008, despite moving away from Seattle.  Safeco is actually a more-homer friendly stadium than Kauffman (1.002 vs. .909).

Here's my prediction for 2008

.289/.341/.472  33 doubles 21 hrs  .813 OPS

Not bad, but probably not worth what we're paying.  

For comparison's sake, that's the sort of production we got from Emil Brown his first two years.  I'm guessing it'll be about 60 or 70 points lower and about 15 hrs fewer than what Andruw Jones puts up next season.   (And that's if he plays the whole season, which there's a good chance may not happen.)

by marbotty on Dec 4, 2007 4:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Perhaps I'm being too hasty
Dutton did report that the Royals may try to sign both Guillen and Jones.  That would be fantastic.  

I think I'd mostly be disappointed if Moore was interested in signing one or the other and merely settled for Guillen.  

If we bring in Jones, how would our offense compare to the 2007 Yankees?  That was a team that won 94 games despite having a worse team ERA than the Royals, and there's no reason to think we can't approximate that team ERA again this year.

by marbotty on Dec 4, 2007 4:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Dayton Moore
just sign Andruw as well please. Think about it...
DeJesus in Left, Jones in Center, Guillen in Right
and move Teahan to 1st. I like that option. This idea of Butler playing first I'm just not liking it. I mean if Butler's at 1st what are the options for a reliable DH? Shealy? I mean honestly...
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 9:30 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

The Royals aren't liking Butler at first either
Between Piccolo's comments a couple of weeks ago that the progress was slow and the fact that it seems Billy is still on his honeymoon as the Dominican League season enters its last three weeks (his stats on the web site haven't changed in quite a while), I sense that Billy is safely entrenching himself in the DH spot for 2008.

If the pursuit of Jones is still for real (I think it's unlikely), than 2 years HAS to be the max, as $18 mil. a year seems the minimum to beat the Dodgers.  As GMDM pointed out in the Star yesterday, we need to start locking in our homegrown talent to long term contract extensions.  Don't want to swallow up too many dollars on guys (possibly) in their decline.  

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 10:42 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't mind the money so much
We have money to burn, we have to overpay a bit. As long as they keep it to three years, I'm cool with it.

He's posted an OPS+ of 115 four of the last five years. That's pretty consistent and a big improvement over last year.

I don't get the Teahen to 1B talk. He would be one of the lightest hitting 1B in the league. We already have a log jam of flawed first basemen. Enough with the position switches.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:22 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

You're telling me
that Teahen wouldn't be an improvement at first considering the options we have? Is a light hitting first baseman any worse than a light hitting COF?
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 10:27 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Teahen is too similar to Gload
What's the difference? Teahen gets on base a bit more, Gload has a bit more power.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:37 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just throwing the idea out there
I'd rather keep DeJesus around than Teahen. Besides I thought blogs were meant for idea tossing. It would be nice if we could land Jones and trade Teahen. Some team would move him back to third I would think.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 10:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I respect your opinion
I just think Teahen would be a bad choice at 1B, especially considering the logjam of imperfect 1B we are already collecting.

As Ron Burgundy says, "we will have to agree to disagree."

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Weirdest news of the day
As part of the Brian Anderson story in the Star, Dutton notes that the new Special Assistant to General Manager Theo Epstein is...DAVID HOWARD!!!!  Either 1) the Red Sox are impervious to a culture of losing, or 2) slowly but surely, the Royals and Red Sox will switch places as a decade of futility oozes from the pores of Baird, Howard, etc., and infects Fenway Park.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 10:48 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

He can teach Manny and Ortiz
How to bunt.
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 10:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Atlanta paper
Says Braves are looking for a CF, and with their offense they can afford a no-hit centerfielder who can cover some ground.

Uh, Joey Gathright on sale now!

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 10:56 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Meetings
Ok guys, I'm a teacher, and I am coming in to my computer after every hour for more news.  You guys need to be posting more!  Give me something to read about!  Make up some rumors, I don't care.  Tell me we are in talks with A. Jones, considering a good Dejesus trade for pitching.  I'm all for an outfield of Guillen, Jones, Teahen.  I'm still gonna say that we give Shealy another chance at 1st.  Not that I like it, but it's gonna happen.  That puts Butler at DH.

Lineup with Guillen and Jones:

Teahen
Grud
Jones
Butler
Guillen
Gordon
Shealy
Buck
Pena

Seems pretty righty heavy now.  Whatever.

Help me out guys.

In the poker game of life, women are the rake...don't tell my wife I said that.

by Matty486 on Dec 4, 2007 11:13 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather keep DeJesus
I still think that Teahen has value as a 3rd baseman. There are plenty of teams in need. I really want a Jones deal to happen. Everyone has an off year. I see a line up of (pending a Jones signing)

DeJesus
Grud
Guillen
Jones
Butler
Gordon
Buck
Gload/Shealy (would like it to get better)
Pena (would like this to improve)

Teahen is the odd man out in this roster but it would be nice to get an arm out of him. Maybe the Cardinals would give up one of their young guys for him. He could help them in the OF or 3rd compared to what they have now. And he'd get to play with LaRue some more!!!

I'm still interested to see what Chicago would want for Uribe. If it didn't take much to get him I think it would be a decent pick-up.
Pitching is not looking like the easiest fix to me this year. Kuroda and then what? Overpay for Silva? We might have to try running with what we have for one more year and boost offensive production.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 11:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Anthony Reyes for Teahen?
Not sure if the Cards do that, but I'd love it.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Have to disagree on Dejesus
Last year was not a good judge of Teahen's power potential. He's got more power than Dejesus, he's much better on the basepaths, and he's got a cannon arm (Dejesus has a rather Damon-esque arm). Not that I don't like David. He gets on base and has a good glove. I would rather have the power and speed potential of Teahen though.

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 11:52 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Call Me Crazy
but I like the idea of moving Teahen to 1B, if we sign Andruw Jones.  It is a waste of his arm and skills in the field and he won't have the power of a prototypical 1B, but we could get that in other areas.  It also solves the problem of inadequate guys starting at 1B.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 11:55 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Thank You
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bob Dutton
likes my idea of Teahen to 1st Base.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 3:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's Awesome!!
You and Bob can petition for David Glass to let you guys run the team together.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We would
except it's been awkward with me and Bob ever since that incident back in '95.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
100%.  Teahen has many more skills than DDJ, I truly believe his power numbers will come back as well, and he and Gordon are far and away the best two baserunners on the team, I think DeJesus is much more expendable than Teahen
I may be drunk, but tomorrow I will be sober and you, ma'am, will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill

by fats on Dec 4, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Austin Kearns available
He's signed through 2010. Good young hitter. But he plays RF, same as Guillen. Would take some decent talent to land him.

Some crazy rumors out there. According to Joel Sherman the Indians and Blue Jays are reportedly talking about a swap that would send Alex Rios to the Tribe for Franklin Gutierrez and Cliff Lee. That seems pretty ridiculous.

Anthony Reyes seems available - San Diego is interested.

Cards-Brewers talking about a Scott Rolen-Chris Capuano swap.

Reds talking about dealing Josh Hamilton, possibly to the Cubs for Sean Marshall or Rich Hill.

Houston talking Chris Burke to the White Sox for a reliever, possibly Mike MacDougal.

Cubs trade IF Omar Infante and P Will Ohman to Atlanta for P Jose Ascanio

Yankees trade P Tyler Clippard to Washington for P Jonathan Albaladejo

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:17 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Left Field
is always an option for Kearns. It would probably take more than what we'd want to give up though.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 11:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More news
The Detroit Free Press reports that the Tigers are close to acquiring Denny Bautista from the Rockies for Jose Capellan.

The Rays turned down the Mariners' offer of a Ben Broussard-for-Edwin Jackson trade, according to the Seattle Times.

According to the Chicago Tribune, the Cubs and Braves are interested in Nate McLouth.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:47 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rosenthal
"The Marlins and Tigers are engaged in preliminary talks about a blockbuster that would send Cabrera and left-hander Dontrelle Willis to Detroit for a package of young players, according to major-league sources.
Outfielder Cameron Maybin and left-hander Andrew Miller likely are among the Marlins' targets. The Tigers already feature two veteran left-handed starters, Kenny Rogers and Nate Robertson, possibly making Miller available in a deal for Willis."

Crap. Cleveland and Detroit seem intent on making things tough for us.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 11:51 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

yikes
Cabrera on the Tigers is scary.

by sprntern8 on Dec 4, 2007 11:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Woe to be a Marlins fan
They have come to expect a complete evisceration of their team every 3-4 years.  Trading Cabrera AND Willis?  I mean, who else is there?
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just one question...
on the Guillen signing. Guillen and Teahen are both right fielders with strong arms. Who moves to left? Will Teahen have to go through another position change?

by djk royal on Dec 4, 2007 11:52 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

Mariners
had already talked about moving Guillen to left last year to make room for Adam Jones.  Hate to see Teahan have to move again.

by sprntern8 on Dec 4, 2007 12:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Guillen moves
I don't think the Royals would want to move Teahen just yet, plus if we traded DDJ, he would just have to make another move to center
I may be drunk, but tomorrow I will be sober and you, ma'am, will still be ugly. - Winston Churchill

by fats on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i think the A's are interested in Teahen again
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Rosenthal:
Latest from Robothal:

The Royals' preliminary agreement with Jose Guillen on a three-year, $36 million contract might not preclude them from making a run at another free-agent outfielder, Andruw Jones. The Royals also are bidding for Japanese free-agent right-hander Hiroki Kuroda, whose price has risen above $40 million for four years. They presumably could redirect that money toward Jones, but probably could sign him only if he agreed to a shorter deal.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 12:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

God, why are we doing this...
I can't trust Dayton anymore
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Improving the team
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

not sure andruw is a good move
not at all
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You don't like Moore bringing in impact players?
Guillen, Jones and Kurdoa would all be good moves.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Too early to pass judgment
All three of these guys have some major question marks. Is it worth committing $100 million (or possibly more) of long term capital to these three players?  I'm highly skeptical.

I think Guillen is the most sure thing in terms of predictable production, but it's very possible that he could be suspended for 50 games to start the season. Nonetheless, 3 years for $36 million is a relative bargain for what he should provide.

Jones can be depended upon to hit 20-30 HR's but he's coming off a .222/.311/.413 and the general consensus is that his defensive skills are in decline.  Can the Royals afford to go, say, 2-3 years at 15-18 million per year for him?  I'd say yes provided that his horrible 2007 was an aberrration for him, but I'm not so sure, especially considering that he will be making a transition to the American League.  

Kuroda, meanwhile, is the biggest unknown of the three. The problem with Japanese players coming to the MLB is that their projections based on statistics, accolades, and/or scouting reports have not strongly correlated with performance.  You roll the dice when you go fishing for Japanese starting pitching. Kei Igawa was a two-time Sawamura Award winner in Japan and possessed more victories, a lower ERA, and a better K/9 inning ratio than Kuroda.  He bombed in his first season in the MLB.  Then again, if you believe the scouting reports, Kuroda possesses better pure stuff than Igawa and may turn out to be a Hideo Nomo (early Dodger years) or a more consistent version of Daisuke Matsuzaka.  He is a very significant risk in terms of projecting his performance over a 4 year contract worth $40-50 million, which it will certainly take to secure his services.  Then again, if there's one area where I almost fully trust GMDM, it's in evaluating and signing pitching.  He deserves that trust after bucking conventional wisdom to acquire Meche, Bannister, and Soria.  

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 12:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Too early is correct
  1. I don't think Guillen will get a 50-game suspension, I also believe DM would take that into consideration when negotiating.
  2. See NYR's post below regarding Jones defense.
  3. You not only roll the dice when you go after Japanese players, you roll the dice when you sign any FA. It's all a crapshoot.
And I agree that DM has evaluated pitching very well since arriving in KC.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

20-30
I think with the amount of HRs we've had lately that 20-30 would be enough of a reason to sign Jones for 3 or 4 years. WE NEED POWER!
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

will carroll and sterger
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Well.....
somebody had to respond, I think they are definitely a couple. Now they just need to go to a beach together for vacation and a picture just needs to 'accidentally' get released to the press of Sterger topless. Isn't that what happens in the tabloids all the time?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

they are both all over the internet
thats for sure

SHOW YOURSELF CARROLL

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i have had good interactions with carroll
not that that has anything to do with anything I guess

by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 12:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sterger/Carroll
Hypothetically, what would their children look like?

The range of possibilities between fat and balding and absolutely smoking hot is mind blowing.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 12:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Both have
Ample bosoms.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Oh Conan O'Brien
Please return to the area and let us know what a Will Carroll-Jenn Sterger baby would look like!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Area?
I mean, return to the air.

These trade rumors are making my head spin.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He has a wide stance. And he must fly often.
Come for the conversation, stay for the view.

This can't really be happening.  

Everyone knows that Carroll is a blogger.  We are just surprised to see him outside when the sun is shining.  Where did he find that shirt and pair of shorts?  We all know that the only clothes bloggers own are underwear.  After all, when you live in mom's basement you don't need to get dressed that often.

by James Quinn on Dec 4, 2007 2:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Only Carroll's are natural
"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 5, 2007 9:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The boys would have great hair and
manboobs and the girls would be bald and flatchested with glasses...

by grudz69 on Dec 4, 2007 1:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I mean really
they are a perfect fit.  P and d....Pd
his gut and her, um, er, shelf
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson

by buddyball on Dec 5, 2007 9:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It also happens
At Dunder Mifflin
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 12:29 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade DeJesus or Teahen
I don't care which one we keep, but sign Jones and then trade either DeJesus or Teahen for starting pitching.  I think Teahen has more trade value becuase he could go back and play 3B or stay in the outfield.
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 12:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

how much of an upgrade is Andruuuuuuu
gonna be over DDJ

and is it worth teh cost

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 12:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It would be a huuuuuuuge upgrade
Just look at the stats.  Sure, consider 2006, but consider the prior 5 years of consistently good OBP and SLG.  His power numbers have been spectacular.  And he's a defensive upgrade as well.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I meant, "consider 2007"
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

isn't his D slipping though...
I just have a hard time getting excited about jones, he seems to have had a chance to be an all time great, but instead is happy to just become a fat guy

by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 12:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not according to Dewan's fielding stats
Dewan's stats put him as the #2 defensive CFer in baseball in 2007.  And the Dewan fielding awards (voted on by his people) give their 2007 CF gold glove to Jones (he got the nod over Beltran due to his strong arm).
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I would have...
let you slide, it was easily known what you meant. Now if you would have said 2005, not so much buddy!

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

two sides...
  1. AJ is better than DDJ, always will be, probably even in his decline phase.
  2. The question becomes, is CF a position we really need to upgrade that much to begin with? I know it doesn't directly work out this way, but ideally, you'd look at our roster and upgrade about 5 different slots before you got to CF. Still, the market is what the market is right now, and while I wish GMDM would stay away, its better to get one of the good players than blowing the money on trash.

by LeoBloom on Dec 4, 2007 1:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Brandon Inge
If the Tigers do get Miggy Cabrera, and that's still a huge "if", Brandon Inge becomes available. Do you think he could cut it at shortstop? He always looks tremendous defensively. He's got some pop, although his OPS the past two years was Pena-esque.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 12:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Not interested
I wouldn't be interested in Inge at 3B or SS, that's just my opinion though. Feel free to debate boys.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 12:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Inge was a catcher and now a decent defensive 3B
There is no way he'd have the range for SS.  And even if he could play marginal SS defense, there is no way Dayton Moore would put that kind of player at SS.  Moore doesn't need every player to be a great defender, but at a position like SS, he wants range and glove.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 12:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He'd be a nifty supersub
since he can presumably still catch.
"True friends stab you in the front."-Oscar Wilde.

by NHZ on Dec 5, 2007 9:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

question

If "...us irresponsible bloggers who... wait for it... live in our parent's basement and write in our underwear," is true, are the "professional journalists" going commando?
Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson

by buddyball on Dec 4, 2007 1:23 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
They project similar stats.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 1:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Who else besides?
Could we land Murton and Sean Marshall for Teahen?  That would be OK.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 1:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Murton and Marshall
I don't see the Cubs sending both of them for Teahen.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 1:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i like teahen more
better baserunner, more complete game

by LeoBloom on Dec 4, 2007 1:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather
Have Hill or Marshall for Teahen than Murton. Murton is too similar to Teahen's skill set. I wouldn't see the point in such a trade from our vantage point.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 1:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will, does this mean
That you will soon begin drafting the much anticipated Emil Brown farewell tribute column?
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 1:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kuroda
Another article on him via the M's website.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 1:42 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Peter Angelos
Is an over-sensitive and over-protective owner. He doesn't know when to quit. Even if he wants to get rid of Bedard, I think he'll press MacPhail to push the envelope too far in asking prices from other teams.

Bedard will still be an Oriole.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 1:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

KC Star - DJ for Chuck James
"The Braves are believed to be offering lefty Chuck James for DeJesus. James, 26, is 22-14 with a 4.05 ERA over the last two seasons."
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:10 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Interesting
25 year old with ERA+ of 118 and 100 in the last two years.  Looks like a solid #3 SP at the very least.  Given his age, he could easily develop into a #2.  Doesn't look like he has the peripherals of an ace.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I like this one too
it's better than the Teahen to the Cubs rumor.  James would be solid in our rotation as a #3.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

High home run rates
Definitely not ace material, but a solid middle of the rotation guy with many reserve years left.

I am concerned about his home run rates however. And I really like DJ. I'd rather give up Gathright if that's at all possible.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Royals-Braves trading partner relationship
Seems to be becoming quite incestuous.
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 2:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Creepy
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a 4th starter in the AL
The move to the AL will hurt him.  The fact that every ninth batter switches from a pitcher to a DH should drive down his K/9 rate and increase his BB/9 rate.  He is perhaps the most extreme fly ball pitcher around (27.7% GB% in 2006, 31.0% in 2007), so the high HR rate is not a fluke, and he will induce few double plays to get himself out of jams.  His FIP was an unimpressive 5.16 in 2006 and 5.41 in 2007.  His fastball sits 88-89 MPH, and at age 26 with a small frame, he is throwing about as hard as he ever will.  His good changeup helps make up for the lack of zip on the fastball.

He is not a bad guy to fill out the back end of a rotation, but DeJesus is more valuable.  

by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

James is only due around $400k in 2008 (I think)
That'd be another 1.5 million off the books, as DDJ is due around 2 million in 2008.  I say do it.  James has solid K-W ratios, and while he gives up a few too many homeruns, I'd be content with the following rotation:

Meche
Bannister
James
Grienke
DeLarosa

Imagine what would happen if we were able to sign Kuroda too!

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DDJ for James
So does that mean we are actually serious in the possibility of pursuing Jones as well?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

From the Star:
Kansas City is also talking to free agent center fielder Andruw Jones and has said that the deal with Guillen will not put an end to those talks.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

How recent is that?
I've been seeing that all morning and I just don't know how much of it is true. If they are still insisting on it after the DDJ for James talks then I will definitely put more belief in it.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

As of this morning
...multiple sources say that we are still pursuing Jones.  (I've seen Dutton and Ken Rosenthal at Fox write that this morning after the Guillen signing).
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I know
That is exactly what I said, I've been seeing it all morning. I want to know if they are still saying it after the talks about DDJ for James came up. I would assume that it would become even more apparent that it is a possibility, but I haven't seen anybody publish it this afternoon.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think they are exploring many things at once
I'm sure they are pursuing Jones, Kuroda, possible DeJesus and Teahen trades at the same time (as well as much more), because they don't know what might happen.  They don't know if Jones will end up going for much more or if Kuroda is about to get a big offer from the Dodgers or what other trade possibilities are out there or how current offers might change.  
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes
But there are fall back CF options as well, like Lofton or Patterson (for short-term deals).
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Uhhh
Not really interested in those short-term options. Would almost rather deal with what we got in the organization, hell let Mitch Maier play for awhile. Okay, maybe not but still not interested in Lofton or Patterson.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

One year of Lofton
Is better than leaving the position Maier who couldn't hit major league hitting if his life depended on it.  Lofton would be a decent stopgap.  But this is just speculation from Street at MLB.com.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't much see the point
Lofton wouldn't lead to that many more wins than Maier, I'd rather see what Maier can do on the off chance he can become a player.

And there's Gathright too.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Huge difference between Maier and Lofton
Lofton will still give you an OPS+ of around 100 (in recent seasons he's usually been over 100).  So that is average major league hitting.  There is no way Maier could come close to that.  He's an ok, average hitter in AAA.  Bring him to the majors and I don't know if he'd be able to manage a .700 OPS.  Maier would be around replacement level while Lofton would be much higher than that.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I don't disagree
But why is that difference significant? How many wins will it cost us? Does that matter? I'm more interested in developing young players than see us win three more games with Lofton instead of Maier.

Baseball is littered with guys with subpar minor league numbers who stepped it up. I'm not saying we should give everyone a shot who had crappy minor league numbers, but when we don't have any other options, I'd rather go with an inhouse option than spend money on a one year contract on an old vet. You sign Lofton, he helps you win a few games, then he leaves (or maybe you can flip him at the deadline - maybe). Maier, there's a small chance he turns into a useful player.

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:58 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If I thought Maier had real upside potential
...then I would agree with you.  If Maier had a legit chance at becoming a regular MLB player, then I would be for potentially giving him a chance.  But nothing I've seen in his statisitcal record or from any scouting report or analysis of him says he has that in him.  Right now, pretty much everyone says his ceiling is 4th OFer.  That is likely as good as he could become.  I wouldn't waste a full season of regular playing time on him.  I'd rather have Lofton's 3 wins (or more) than explore Maier's limited ceiling.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Maier's value would skyrocket if
he went back to catching.  

I don't recall why he made the switch, but it's odd that he went from behind the plate to being the best defensive outfielder in our system.  With his speed and OBP I could see him as a Jason Kendall-lite type player, which would be an upgrade over the other two options backing up Buck.

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:31 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Quick question
Who will be our leadoff man if we trade DDJ?  I'd be guessing Teahen, because he gets on base.  Any thoughts?

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 2:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Gathright?
Or Teahen.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gotta be Teahen
He has the OBP, and good speed and baserunning skills.  Not a big base stealer, much like DDJ.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

see
I appreciate the excellent rumors!  I get back from lunch duty to find that we might trade Teahen or DDJ.  I'm definitely in favor of the Chuck James trade.  I'd rather keep Teahen; more power, better arm, higher ceiling on outfield skills.  I also think Teahen would be a really good CF, but in my mind, if we make that trade, we then sign Jones.  OF of Guillen, Jones, Teahen.  Rotation of Meche, Bannister, James, Greinke, Hochevar
In the poker game of life, women are the rake...don't tell my wife I said that.

by Matty486 on Dec 4, 2007 2:29 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I know it is all rumor
but man this is getting pretty damn exciting. I have to keep telling myself not to get too excited, that has always worked against me in the past.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 2:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 2:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Lots of rumors, possibilities
Teahen for Murton (some package involving those two)

DeJesus for Chuck James

Rangers also showing interest in DeJesus per Rotoworld.

Royals still in the hunt for A. Jones.  No one seems to be offering him more than 2 years so far.  Maybe the Royals could get him for 3/45.

Kuroda - MLB.com's believes that the first team to offer Kuroda a 4-year deal might land him.  So far, despite one earlier report, no team has offered him more than 3 years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:33 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

In the office of GMDM I trust
If he and his advisors like Kuroda, I'd trust them and be happy if they offer him 4/40 or 4/45.  Signing Kuroda is a big risk given the lack of a MLB track record, but you have to be willing to take these types of risks to compete, especially given the lack of close to MLB ready pitching depth in the Royals system.
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 2:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And age
the guy is 33 and hasn't pitched in the majors yet.  That's a little scary.  I don't want to be the team with the Kei Igawa signing of this FA class.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 2:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The reason I like Kuroda
Yes, you can't entirely trust Japanese numbers.  Yes, Igawa was a very good Japanese pitcher who flopped in the majors.  But Kuroda has very different stuff from Igawa.

Igawa: 88-91 FB, above average change, average slider

Kuroda: 91-93 FB, plus forkball, plus shuuto, average change

Kuroda has more plus pitches and an arsenal and approach which is better for the majors.  Igawa's out pitch was an elevated low-90's fastball.  It had no movement and is pretty easy to hit.  If it isn't several inches out of the strike zone, it is a HR.  Kuroda's out pitch is the forkball or shuuto and it is much harder to turn mistakes with those pitches into HR's or line drives.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 2:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kuroda
This is what SI.com is saying
"Bidding apparently is going wild on Japanese pitcher Hiroki Kuroda. Word in the lobby was that he may get $45 million for three years. The Mariners and Royals -- yes, the Royals again -- are said to be among the many teams pursuing him." I like the idea of a no 3-4 pitcher, but this seems a little steep ...

by thefinerev on Dec 4, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

we're famous!
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 3:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Santana Mayhem!
So apparantly the Halos are in on Johan now, looks like the asking price will start at Jered Weaver and Brandon Wood.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:01 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Nate McLouth
Does he interest anybody here for the CF job? It appears that Huntington is "aggressively" shopping him.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I like him a lot
But with DJ, Teahen and Gathright and possibly Andruw Jones, I don't think we're going to make a play on him.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 3:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He'd be a nice CFer to have
25 years old, average-to-above-average hitter, which is very good for a CFer.  But to get a pretty good young player, you have to give up a pretty good young player.  He's probably a luxury we cannot afford.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:10 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Actually
I've been seeing where Huntington may part with him for a reliever or two, seems pretty cheap but I've read it twice today.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:13 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I went to lunch
And this is what happens.  Sheesh!

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 3:07 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

There's a lesson in that
Don't eat lunch.

Pesonally, I fast throughout the winter meetings so that I don't miss anything.  Chamber pot too.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DDJ for James
Braves Offer James For DeJesus

According to the KC Star's Bob Dutton, the Jose Guillen signing puts the Royals in a better position to trade David DeJesus or Joey Gathright.  The Rangers and Braves are on DeJesus' trail.  Dutton believes the Braves offered up lefty Chuck James for him.  It seems a little light, as I'm not sure James could be effective in the American League.

Dutton says not only is Hiroki Kuroda looking for four years, he may want $48MM.  The Royals could move on and spend the money on Andruw Jones instead, if he'll take a one or two-year deal.  The money could also be diverted to Carlos Silva if he'll take 4/40.  Otherwise the Royals will just chase rehab guys like Jason Jennings, Kris Benson, and Matt Clement.

From MLBTR

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

DeJesus and James
I like the deal in general, but given DeJesus's skill set, reliability and the fact that he has a long-term cheap contract means that we'd have to get more than just James.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I tend to agree
with that thinking. My initial thought was, "James and......??"

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I bet Moore is saying that to
The reports are that the Braves want DeJesus and have offered James.  If Moore has any interest in James (and I'm sure he knows him pretty well), then I'm sure Moore is currently discussing which other player(s) he wants thrown into the deal.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No thanks
Unless the Royals are either able to sign Jones or a CFer to replace DDJ (or are willing to move Teahen to CF), I would not want to make the DDJ-James deal.  Gathright could play CF, but it doesn't mean he should--it would be a huge downgrade in defense at the very least.

I like the idea of a Guillen-DeJesus-Teahen outfield for 2008.  All three are average to above average offensively and are all excellent defensive OFers.  I wouldn't mess with that at all unless the Braves are willing to offer a throw-in with James.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 4, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Why no thanks?
You are wanting the same thing, another player in the deal with James.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The "no thanks"
...was in reference to the straight-up deal of DDJ for James,  not for James + throw-in.  Sorry!

by DarthYoshi on Dec 4, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Guillen is a poor defender
UZR had him as the worst RF in the AL last year.  He has lost a lot of mobility from the injuries over the years.

But, yeah, James straight up for DeJesus is a bad idea.

by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 3:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

UZR...
could be negatively affected by the presence of Ichiro(!) in CF.  scouting reports are uniformly positive on Guillen's defense.

by Billex Gordler on Dec 4, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Excellent point
Ichiro would steal a lot of chances from any corner OFer.

Guillen is not a plus defender, but he's certainly adequate for a corner OF spot with a cannon for an arm.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:08 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not any more
Guillen used to be a decent defender, but with his leg injuries, he has lost any sort of range.  Take your pick of any defensive metric --UZR, THT's RZR, BP's BRAA -- and they all rate him poorly.  The same goes for Tom Tango's scouting report project.  

I know the Ichiro comment is just repeating what Joe Sheehan said about BRAA, but UZR had Ichiro as one of the worst CF in the AL, so that explanation does not work.

by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 6:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

this is why I've been making Vlademil comparisons
I think they may hit the same, too (last year notwithstanding).

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:35 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

+1
DDJ for Chuck James is a win for the Braves all things considered.  James in AL plays out as 4th starter.  GMDM should know the Atlanta system to be able to find another minor league pitcher to throw in.  Last throw in to a deal KC had was Daniel Cortes.  

With additional OF help on the way with Guillen and perhaps AJ, DDJ for a starter and another player is a good deal.

by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

chuck james sucks
hes probably barely a 4 four the braves. He'd be Jeremy Sowers over here. Which means he'd be toast.

by wildthang on Dec 4, 2007 6:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

in another season
everyone on this roster will be an ex-Brave or an ex-Mariner
Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Dec 4, 2007 3:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

KC Star story..
Royals get their man: Agreement reached with Guillen for $36 million over three years

http://www.kansascity.com/385/story/389025.html

by thejosephboys on Dec 4, 2007 3:14 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It was $33.6 million in another report
So I'm not sure what to believe anymore.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 3:16 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Odd
One KC Star story says 3/36.  Another says 3/33.6:

http://www.kansascity.com/485/story/388943.html

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

$33.6MM
I hadn't seen that one, where did you see that?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Nevermind
Simultaneous posting with NYR gave me the info. Does anybody else feel guilty about not getting any work done this week?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

About as much guilt as I feel
for not getting any work done on Opening Day.  Actually, I do most of my work from home which gives me almost unlimited scheduling flexibility.  So I can work around blog posts and checking MLBTraderumors.com.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Hmmm
I don't work around it, I just don't seem to work at all.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Winter Meetings are better than the Trade Deadline
its like a little baseball oasis in the middle of winter

by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 3:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Rumors
Now it is speculated that the Twins may throw in another player on their side to get the deal done.

Also, the Dodgers are in heavy on Bedard it appears. Looks like Kemp and Broxton would be the center pieces for that deal.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Kevin Goldstein on Royals rumors
I asked him about a couple Royals trade rumors.  I wanted to hear about what he thought about the fairness or value of these potential trades.  He didn't really answer that question:

NYRoyal (New York, NY): Quick thoughts about a couple current rumors: David DeJesus for Chuck James; Mark Teahen for Matt Murton.

Kevin Goldstein: Can't see either happening.

He didn't say why, so that doesn't tell us much of anything.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 3:28 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Wow
Kevin really had some feelings on those rumors huh?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

haha...
the James-DDJ deal is interetsing to me, but honestly the Teahen/Murton swap just seems pointless

by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 3:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agree completely
I like the idea of adding young proven pitching. Teahen and Murton seem like mirror images of each other.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 3:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Teahen and Murton
I think I would rather see something involving Ryan Theriot coming this way if we are gonna work with the Cubs

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 3:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Watched Theriot play 6 times last year
I love him, but there's no way the Cubs will part with him, unless it's as part of a bigger deal.

The other problem is he is young and gritty...more like someone you'd see playing for Buddy Bell in 8 years or so after he's totally washed up.

I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 3:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trade Gathright, Not DeJesus
No way do I want to trade DeJesus for James.  Not a good deal at all.  DeJesus is a solid, proven performer who could reasonably improve.  And if we do trade him, as others have posted previously, I agree, James is definitely not enough.

If we can get anywhere near the same return, trade Gathright.

I don't fight extra players.

by paleblueeyes on Dec 4, 2007 3:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Absolutely agree
The Royals shouldn't be trading DeJesus. Chuck James is a mediocre starter who likely would be exposed in the A.L. Meanwhile, DDJ is very much needed right now in KC for his skills in the field and getting on base (plus, his contract is reasonable, to boot). Gathright is not close to a reasonable replacement for DDJ; in fact, I'd like to see Gathright packaged himself.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:15 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

likely would be exposed in the A.L.
Banny fared pretty well?

by BeefyTaco on Dec 4, 2007 4:20 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Bullshit
Since we're just throwing things around.  :)
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

We need mediocre starters
We haven't had a lot of those lately.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DeJesus has more value than that
He's an affordable, solid center fielder who gets on base and scores runs. I'm not completely against dealing him, but I'd certainly want more than Chuck James in return. Can't trade DDJ just for the sake of trading him.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I love DJ
But he is pretty average to barely above average. So is James. I'd take an average pitcher over an average hitter anyday.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I have yet to figure out why KC
likes Gathright so much.  His one tool is speed but it doesn't translate to production.  He isn't a great defensive OF or a good basestealer.  I would rather see KC look to trade him before DDJ.  Production by DDJ is so much better than Gathright.

by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Whose to say KC "likes him so much"
The reason DeJesus and Teahen are being actively shopped is because we can get a genuinely good player for either of them.  If you trade Gathright, you're likely going to get another bench player or a not-quite-ready-for-the-majors prospect with moderate upside.

You'd rather trade Gathright than DeJesus.  Ok.  I'd rather trade Aviles than DeJesus, but we're not going to get much for Aviles, you know what I mean?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Problem with this
No other team sees anything good about him either, therefore, we aren't going to get much for him. DDJ on the other hand could bring in a pretty decent haul. I too am not a fan of Gathright, but I don't see us getting anything near what DeJesus would bring.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'd rather have Maier out there than Gathy
Better defense and about the same offensive production.  May even be a more successful base stealer.

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:40 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Now we're talking
Dayton is now shutting me up. I love it! Dejesus for James? Where do we sign? Jones, Guillen, Teahen. Now that's an outfield. Gathright and Gobble are potential trade candidates too.

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 3:44 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

SOSA???
3:44 p.m., from Enrique Rojas
* The Royals have expressed some interest in Sammy Sosa, according to a source. Sosa has the same agent as Jose Guillen, Adam Katz, and the two sides are trying to determine dollar figures that make sense.

from espn.com blog

by Orphancow on Dec 4, 2007 3:59 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Pinch hitter?
I wouldn't mind having Sosa as a RH pinch hitter for 500K, but is there really room for him on the 25-man roster?
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Is there room for Sosa on the roster?
No.

For the Royals to be pursuing Sosa would make absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sounds like the agent is trying to create some sort of buzz re. Sammy. AT least that's what I hope. Or, Dayton has lost his mind.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:09 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I'm guessing it is just meaningless buzz
Perhaps the very last part of the Guillen negotiation was Guillen's agent asking if he could put a rumor out that the Royals were interested in Sosa to push his value up a little.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not nessissarily
Sosa makes more sense than you might think at first glance.  Every team needs someone with actual power coming off the bench as a pinch hitter.  Sure we have Ross Choad, but he's not as much of a power threat as you'd like to have late in a close ball game.  He'd be a cheap power bat off the bench.
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 4:39 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Say it ain't Sosa
3:44 p.m., from Enrique Rojas, ESPN.com

* The Royals have expressed interest in Sammy Sosa, according to a source. Sosa has the same agent as Jose Guillen, Adam Katz, and the two sides are trying to determine some financial numbers that make sense.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sorry for the duplication
OrphanCow and I must have been reading and posting the same thing about Sosa simultaneously.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:07 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, NO!!!!!
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sosa can only DH or PH
Looks like Butler will be DH so KC would sign Sammy to PH role.  Just don't see it.  

by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Talk about an unlikable outfield
Guillen, Andruw, and Sosa - bleh

by BeefyTaco on Dec 4, 2007 4:12 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

The latest
The Red Sox are considering throwing in a 5th player in the Santana deal, Ryan Kalish. That would make it Lester/Crisp/Masterson/Lowrie/Kalish for Santana.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Wow
How could the Twins not accept that offer? They are a season away from losing him anyway!

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:18 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Problem is
that is all that he can do.  

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 4:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Check out his splits
Sosa is useless against RHP and has no defensive value.  He's Eduardo Perez at this stage of his career.  

by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 4:35 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kuroda
is starting to sound like he'll get a lot more than he should. Time to ditch that idea, sign Jones and trade either Teahen or DeJesus for a pitcher. No need to drastically overpay for an arm.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 4:38 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Jayson Stark sez
M's offering 4 years $45 million.
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If I am GMDM with that offer on the table,
I fold.  Let them have him and look at trade or other FA.  Too much for too many at his age.  Value still has its place - don't think it is a good value.

by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kuroda
Looks like 4/40 isn't going to get the job done after all. How much higher would you guys go, if any?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:40 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

If 4/45 has been really been offered
Then it should be game over.  It was nice taking a look at you, Mr. Kuroda-san, but we shouldn't top that.  He is a risk worth taking for a certain price, but I don't think I'd go over 4/45.

Now, throw a 3/45 offer at Jones.  If that doesn't work, go for 3/48 or 4/56.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 4:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Seriously
can we just get a Jones deal done already so we don't have to hear anymore "Brewers might peek their head in" rumors, please.
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 4:56 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not so easy to get a Jones deal done
Jones and Boras want the bidding to go up.  He and Rowand are still available and the number of suitors is increasing.  There would be no reason for Jones to accept any offer yet.  They are wisely sitting and waiting for the bids to go up.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think Dayton is smarter than that
I can't see him commiting us to a 4 year deal or longer on a 33 year old pitcher who hasn't pitched in MLB.  If the number were 4/40 maybe, but anything more than that and I'd say we're out.
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

That's as far as I go
Anything beyond 4/40 seems like way too much risk, although admittedly I haven't seen this guy. That's a huge commitment. Plus, even Matsuzaka struggled quite a bit at times last year upon moving to the A.L., and Kuroda isn't even regarded as his equal, is he? Kuroda is also already 32 and likely his best years are behind him.

Time to look elsewhere, I'd say.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 4:52 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Kuroda again
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/writers/jon_heyman/12/04/scoop.tuesday/1.html

Jon Heyman at SI is saying Kuroda might even go for 3/45.  The years sound right, but at $15 million per?  It was nice thinking about Kuroda in Royals blue, but like the rest of y'all have said, I hope Moore passes on Kuroda for that price.

by DarthYoshi on Dec 4, 2007 6:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sosa
Numbers that make sense 5 months for 55 dollars plus all of the steroids he can take. I can't see the Royals signing him. I really don't want to have to see that ridiculous hop every time he flies out to the warning track.

by Skirra on Dec 4, 2007 4:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Ridiculous Hop
Well..if we can get him to cork his bat then maybe there won't be a whole lot of flying out to the warning track.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:44 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

even with cork
1 strikeout every 4 at bats is awful.  (this means you teahen and gordon.)

by 390 on Dec 4, 2007 4:49 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will
Any possibility of getting a new thread started this afternoon, just to keep it a little cleaner? It's getting tough to follow multiple conversations when some go 1/2 way back up the page.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:47 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Luis Vizcaino
The R's have been mentioned as an interested party in his services. Any thoughts?

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 4:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

If we really want another middle reliever
...he's a good option and probably affordable too.  Consistently good ERA+ (116, 120, 132, 104 -- last year was a bit of a down year), he has good strike out numbers and has both AL and NL experience.

I'm not against it, per se.  I just don't think we need to invest in another reliever.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:03 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Not for Linebrink money
Plus he threw the second most innings of his career last year. Personally I wouldn't take any reliever that Torre got his hands on anyways.

by Skirra on Dec 4, 2007 5:04 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Sweeney
Anyone heard anything on him at all?
Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Dec 4, 2007 5:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Sheehen on the Guillen signing
Joe Sheehen of Baseball prospectus on the Royals signing Guillen:
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=6971

To me, saying Guillen isn't good enough for the Royals to contend is all well and good, but who else are we supposed to be getting, exactly? It seems Joe would rather us beef up SS or get another, better, high-OBP OF. I'm just not seeing where that is supposed to come from. And the Royals are trying to get another starting pitcher, so as long as Joe thinks the money isn't a problem, I don't understand the critique. Who were we supposed to spend the money on? The SP market is horribly weak, you don't want to go above 4/45 for Kuroda, and who really takes Carlos Silva seriously? We would likely needed to trade for a SP anyway, and then we need Guillen. I think this was a solid signing given the market and the Royals' needs.

by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 5:20 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

It seems like Sheehan is saying
...that this move is bad because it doesn't get the Royals into the playoffs in 2008.  Huh?  So only sign players that will get the Royals into the playoffs next year?  This is part of a rebuilding effort.  Guillen is a piece.  There will be at least one more piece acquired this offseason. There will be more pieces signed before 2009.  

Guillen puts an above average bat at a corner OF position.  We needed that despeately.  His OBP is pretty good (better than .350 is 3 of the last 5 seasons) and he has legit power.  He's not the "last piece of the puzzle," but he's a piece.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yes - it is about building a better team
and having Guillen in LF will make KC a better team.  With his stats over the past 3 years, he just became KC's best power hitter.  I also think Gordon and Butler will improve as well.  Remember Gload hit 3rd for much of the season.  That shouldn't be happening in 2008 with Hillman filling out lineup card and more talent in the dugout.

by daveyork on Dec 4, 2007 5:46 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Guillen, etc.
I actually felt that Sheehan had a pretty reasonable take on the signing. His point was not so much that the deal doesn't make sense b/c it completes KC for '08, but that the deal is hamstrung by the fact that KC probably won't be competing in the Central by the time the contract is up.

You saw similar comments with the Meche signing last year, that it was an odd move for a team so far away from contending. But seeing how much Meche improved this entire team last year, I think its unfair for analysts to immediately estimate the bottom line in every free agent signing. There's no 23 year old, high ceiling free agents out there - and these role players are bringing the Royals to a higher level, giving prospects a chance to develop (see: Hochevar). Having a league-average starter was a crucial step in the Royals' pitching development just as having a league-average corner outfielder is another crucial step in this team becoming league average.

And all of that said, it didn't seem to me that he was that against the signing. If you can get any analyst in this free agent season to take a look at the deal and be fairly neutral about it, I think it's about as good a deal as you can get.

by Dodge Buck Night on Dec 4, 2007 5:51 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

exactly
If we're not looking to compete this year or next, it doesn't make sense to go after Guillen, because he's likely to add too much value in three years, or at least not more than whoever we could pick up in next year's offseason.

If we land Jones, though, Guillen's signing suddenly looks a lot better (if that makes any sense).

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:43 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

apparently that does make sense
at least to Rany, who I'm pleased to discover came up with the same argument, albeit much more eloquently stated, here:  http://www.robneyer.com/robrany.html

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 10:03 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

According to David O'Brien
The Braves aren't in talks with the R's about DeJesus and the Royals have a negative opinion of James. Interesting.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed!
I don't fight extra players.

by paleblueeyes on Dec 4, 2007 6:06 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Will Carroll reporting Red Sox get Santana
For Lester, a CF (likely Crisp), Masterson and Kalish.

This makes the Red Sox rotation this year something like:

Beckett
Santana (only the two best pitchers in the game)
Dice-K
Schilling (future HOFer)
Buchholtz (pitched a no-hitter as a rookie)

With Wakefield in long relief, Papelbon as closer, and Ellsbury, Youkilis, Pedroia, Lowell, Ortiz, Drew, Ramirez in the lineup.

Holy crap. The only even average positions on the team are catcher and SS. Could they challenge the regular-season record?

by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 5:27 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Haven't seen anything else on that
I don't think the Twins would take that deal if they wouldn't take the same thing with Lowrie and Kalish switched around.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:30 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Per Rosenthal
The Royals have been in touch with Ron Mahay's agent.  Rosenthal names the Yankees, Giants, and Astros as other interested parties.  Why the Giants?  The Royals would trade Jimmy Gobble and then sign Mahay.  Regarding the Yankees, Rosenthal says that the Santana situation somehow affects their willingness to sign Mahay.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:46 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Royals might sign Mahay, trade Gobble
From Ken Rosenthal at Fox:

The Royals continue to be active on the free-agent market, contacting the agent for lefty reliever Ron Mahay shortly after reaching terms with outfielder Jose Guillen on Monday night. Mahay, 36, is also drawing interest from the Yankees, Giants and Astros. The chances that the Yankees sign Mahay would increase if they fail to land Johan Santana and decide to fortify their bullpen. The Royals currently have three left-handed relievers, but could trade Jimmy Gobble.

It doesn't surprise me that Gobble might be traded or included in a trade.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:49 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

NYR
Quit tryin to steal my stories man! I had that scoop, I want credit for it. Okay, you got me, I don't really care.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 5:59 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You can have that one
Of course it won't be much of a scoop until someone is signed or traded.  Over the next couple of weeks, the Royals will have reported interest in many FA's, while they will end up signinging less than 5% of them.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I was just jokin man
I don't care who posts it first, just as long as I get my fill of rumors from somewhere. God knows I've drivin myself crazy today with all of this stuff and nothing has even happened really.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:24 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

For most teams, the Winter Meetings
...are about lots of nothing.  In the very least, there are a dozen rumors for every actual trade or signing.  The good news is that Moore is working hard, looking at many different FA and trade possibilities.  He's not sitting on his hands.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:25 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Can't argue with that
I'm happy with the interest the Royals are showing/getting.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

There's no need...
...for both Gobble and Mahay in KC, obviously. So yes, if we were to deal Gobble, signing Mahay might make sense. Otherwise,not sure it's ideal. Mahay will get a pretty sizable deal, the way things have been going for relievers, to do more or less what Gobble did last year for $712 K for the Royals.

by cookierojas73 on Dec 4, 2007 6:00 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

i am not a scout...
but this strikes me as another "why?" trade

by royalsreview on Dec 4, 2007 6:48 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah
Signing Mahay and trading Gobble is a wash.  The only thing that could be more hilarious in its non-utility is trading Joey Gathright for Jason Tyner or something.

My only thinking is that GMDM has a few suitors for Gobble in a separate trade and thus needs another LOOGY.  Poor decision making if we end up with both of them on opening day though.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

It's about improving the team
If you can trade Gobble for something to improve the team and sign Mahay to make up for the loss of Gobble, then that is good for the Royals.  It is possible that gobble could go with another player for an upgrade somewhere on the team and Mahay then signed to replace him in the bullpen.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What I don't get
Is if some team is so hot after Gobble, why don't they just go after Mahay?
Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 8:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Because
Gobble is younger, better and cheaper.  That's a nice mix.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 9:23 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Fun exercise
Royals trades that would be completely irrelevant because they'd be getting the exact same player in return.

Jimmy Gobble for Ron Mahay
Joey Gathright for Jason Tyner
Mark Teahen for Mark Murton
David DeJesus for Milton Bradley
Ryan Braun for a pitching machine
Angel Berroa for the rotting corpse of Cristian Guzman

Relive Royals History at royalsretro.blogspot.com

by RoyalsRetro on Dec 4, 2007 8:34 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

actually most of those trades are losing ones
We're getting older in almost every instance.  Except for the pitching machine.  

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:48 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Royals opinion of Chuck James
From the Atlanta Journal-Constitution:

Also, I'm told by someone with Royals that they view Chuck James as a "breakdown waiting to happen" because of his size, delivery, etc. They're not interested it trading anything valuable for him, if interested in him at all....

I haven't seen him pitch much, but if he has a delivery which puts undo stress on his arm/shoulder/elbow, I don't like that at all.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 5:54 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Atlanta bloggers view of him
is that he has good potential, but has an inconsistant delivery and arm slot.  This probably explains the Royals fear of him breaking down.
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 6:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

weird
I'd actually be okay with making the DDJ trade, even if there weren't any throw ins.  He looks like what we were hoping to get from Davies.  

Of course, if he's got mechanical problems, it's probably a good idea to pass.  Of course, that's what they said about Lincecum.

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 1:49 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Davies and James
We got Davies for two months of Dotel.  It wouldn't make sense to get that kind of return for 4 years of DeJesus.  And I don't think the Royals thought they were getting anything great with Davies.  We weren't going to get much back for Dotel and Davies was the best offer.  A young guy with good stuff who hopefully they could turn into a pitcher.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 1:53 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

White Sox or Tigers getting Cabrera
One report says that the White Sox are close to a trade for Cabrera.  Another says the Tigers are close to a deal for Cabrera and Willis.  Hard to say if there is anything to either.  Sounds like someone is getting played to me, maybe both.

The White Sox deal would strip their rotation and top prospects.  It would really, really hurt that team for years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

White Sox
I'm seeing Sox after Jones rather than Cabrera.

Also, the supposed Tigers/Marlins deal would send Maybin, Miller and 4 others to Florida for Miggy and Willis.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The stories are changing by the minute
But that is to be expected.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 6:27 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Gammons at ESPN on Cabrera
He reports the Tigers are getting Cabrera for Miller, Maybin, and four others. Man, the AL Central certainly isn't making it easy on the Royals.

by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 6:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

That's what happens
when you play in a very competitive division. Everybody knows that the other teams around them are going to be trying to improve every year, just ups the ante.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:32 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

so long, andrew miller
I'm glad to see my namesake exiled to Florida, where he can't hurt the Royals in the future.

by andrewmiller on Dec 4, 2007 6:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Good point
And when you go to visit him, at least it won't be Detroit. Florida should be a much nicer vacation spot.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 6:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Holy crap
If this is finalized, than the Tigers now have the best offensive lineup in the MLB.

CF Granderson
SS Renteria
3B Cabrera
DH Sheffield
RF Ordonez
1B Guillen
C Rodriguez
LF Jones/Thames
2B Polanco

Acquiring Willis isn't bad either. They essentially dump a 5th starter with upside (Miller) for an AL #3 starter.

Wow.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:02 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Miller
might be better than Willis as early as next year.  As a high strikeout, extreme groundball pitcher, Brandon Webb is a reasonable projection.

by Gopherballs on Dec 4, 2007 7:12 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

They're betting
on the current staff being good long enough to carry them to Porcello et al. in the low minors in 2-3 years.  It should be a good gamble.

Man, that system is loaded.  Here's hoping that's what the Royals' system looks like in a couple more years.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 7:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Be careful of Renteria
The last time he was in the AL, in Boston, he looked terrible. Was it Boston or AL pitching that did him in? We'll see.

by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 7:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Just asking
but would the Cubs be willing to part with Rich Hill for Dejesus +. I see Marshall's name kicked around a lot, but what would it take for us to get Hill instead?

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 6:58 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

How long do the Tigers have Cabrera?
They dumped a lot of talent for these guys.  Cabrera makes them a lot better.  I don't know that Willis does.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:05 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Gotta love the winter meetings
We have more posts than most game threads. Are we sick?  Deranged?
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Just based on the teams now . . .
I can't see the Royals being better than 3rd in the AL Central next year. The Indians have too much pitching, and the Tigers too much hitting, for us to overcome them without huge development from our young guys. Whether we can overtake the Twins remains to be seen.

by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 7:24 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

There was no way
That we were going to overtake the Tigers or Indians next year.  2008 was never going to be our big playoff year.  Next year we'll be better.  Hopefully we'll be able to seriously contend for a playoff spot in 2009 or 2010.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:28 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Agreed
If we can finish ahead of the Twins and White Sox in 2008, I'd be happy.  Even that will be difficult though.  The AL Central is tough.
"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Dec 4, 2007 7:31 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

And think about this . . .
If the Red Sox get Santana, you'll have an enormous  Wild Card fight next year between the Indians, Tigers and Yankees. Only two of those teams will go on, while some almost assuredly weaker AL West team will have a much easier road. I almost guarantee the AL West rep will have a better record than the AL Central/East competitors, but it will be a fraud because the competition will be so much weaker.

by Eppenweb on Dec 4, 2007 7:30 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Are we against 4 years for Kuroda?
Latest news from Trade Rumors is that the top offer is still at 3/33 or so and no one's gone 4 years yet.

Would a bigger 3 (3/40?) or an extra year (4/44) be acceptable?

(I know there's a whole string of Kuroda comments somewhere up above, but I'm just too tired to try to find it right now).

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 7:41 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Who knows what is going on with Kuroda now
So many conflicting reports.  I've been willing to go 4/44 for more than a week.  But that is pretty much my ceiling.  Hard to say what Moore thinks.  He may not be willing to risk a fourth year.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 7:45 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

guillen/royals article
The irrelevant and the irreverent
NASHVILLE, Tenn. - And out somewhere on the periphery of the Johan Santana watch came a free-agent signing that involved not the Yankees, not the Red Sox, not any team with legitimate World Series aspirations or the wherewithal to sell out their stadium.
The Kansas City Royals.
Jose Guillen.
the rest is here
7/10 attacks come from the rear.

by teahen24 on Dec 4, 2007 7:50 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think we would be better off to scrap
the Kuroda idea and sign Jones, then trade Dejesus for a pitcher. That seems to make the most sense. The Rangers want Dejesus I hear and they have some nice pitchers close to MLB ready. Could that be a match?

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 8:13 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

My thoughts exactly!
I'd rather be watching baseball.

by Sisquatch Kids on Dec 4, 2007 8:19 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Wait, hang on...
Can someone sell me on Jones?

by stuckinstl12 on Dec 4, 2007 9:14 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

FWIW
Andruw Jones OPS+ last 5 years:

2003 - 117
2004 - 112
2005 - 136
2006 - 126
2007 - 88

Obviously 2007 sticks out like a sore thumb, but I think most would agree that last year was a fluke. Yeah, maybe he would have declined a little from 2006, but that kind of a drop isn't normal and should not be expected to continue.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:37 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

The Rangers have pitchers?
That is news.  Other than Eric Hurley what is there?  

by lordbyronk on Dec 4, 2007 9:22 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A little more
In addition to Eric Hurley, they have Edinson Volquez.  But DeJesus is worth more than that.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 9:26 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Volquez. That's the kid's name.
I was trying to think of his name. He and Arias for Dejesus may be a nice little haul for us. Isn't that Diamond kid still well thought of too or did everybody cool on him?

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 9:36 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Diamond
Had season-ending TJ surgery last March.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 9:41 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

A couple prospects for DeJesus
A good pitching prospect (not a great pitching prospect) and a mediocre SS prospect.  That's not a great haul for a guy like DeJesus who is a good defensive CFer and a very good leadoff hitter, and he's shown decent power until 2007.  On top of that, he has an ultra-cheap multi-year contract, so it isn't like this is a rental trade.  Volquez and Arias for DeJesus isn't near enough for me.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 9:54 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

DDJ for Volquez straight up?
I wouldn't even blink before I said yes.  After the Rangers brought him up too early last year, Volquez was sent down to A ball this year and worked his way back up (ala Halladay) and he pretty much kept getting better every level he went up.

'06          inn    hts  wk   so  
OKL(AAA)  120.2    86   72  130
'07
TEX(AA)     58.1    46   19  62   
OKL(AAA)  51.0    25  21    66   
MLB      34    34   15  29

Sorry if the figures don't line up, I got really tired of trying to preview this.  Anyway, you catch the drift.  Monster AAA numbers (PCL yet) waaay too many walks, but BIG ceiling.  I would much rather gamble DDJ on a potential #1, than the $40 mil on a Japanese pitcher who will suffer extreme culture shock when he arrives in Saskatchewan, er KC and not even be a serviceable #5.  Hey, you wanna play with the Tigers, ya gotta man up.

Yoda

by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 10:47 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Had to redo the stats, too dog ugly
'06       inn    hts  wk   so  
OKL(AAA)  120.2  86   72  130
'07
TEX(AA)   58.1   46   19   62  
OKL(AAA)  51.0   25   21   66  
MLB        34    34   15   29
Yoda

by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 10:50 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I liked his stats this year
Of course his innings were limited at each level, so there is a sample size problem, but he had a good year.  But he's not a great pitching prospect.  Before 2007, he wasn't on anyone's top 50 prospect list.  He wasn't even on Baseball America's top 100.  He had a good bounce back season.  But he's just a prospect and not even an elite prospect.  The failure rate for pitching prospect is high, higher still for non-elite prospects.

DeJesus on the other hand is a proven major league player.  Proven OBP skills, proven defensive abilities, shown decent power in some seasons.  He's not a risk; he's a known quantity.  He's also locked down for a cheap, multi-year contract.  That all makes him very valuable.

In short, DeJesus is worth more than Volquez.  Moore could and should get more for DeJesus.  If he tries, he easily could.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 11:05 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Well, times change,
and even BA isn't perfect.  Before the '05 season, Kyle Davies was #53 and Brian Dopirak was #21. And Jamie Shields is nowhere to be found.  The Rangers org always felt Volquez had a huge ceiling,  and his attitude is supposed to be next to none.  His numbers between AA, AAA and MLB are 1.12 whip and 9.8K's/9 Inn. this year.  He's taken a long time to develop but that doesn't downgrade his potential, which he is starting to realize now.  You don't get a chance at guys like this often, and you have to take the risk.  Regardless, we will again disagree.  At the end of this coming year I will politely point out your mistake or I will, sigh, admit defeat.  
Yoda

by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 11:38 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

He's a good prospect
But there's a reason he wasn't in BP's top 60 or BA's top 100.  Obviously a good season makes his stock go up, but it doesn't completely turn everything around and make him an elite pitching prospect.

At the end of this coming year I will politely point out your mistake or I will, sigh, admit defeat.

How would we measure my mistake or your defeat?  How well do you think he'll pitch in the majors in 2008?

And, even if Volquez becomes good in the future, that doesn't mean Moore should take as little as Volquez for DeJesus right now.  If he can get more than one good pitching prospect, then he must.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 11:43 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

You're right
I won't admit defeat till after '09.
Yoda

by Yoda on Dec 4, 2007 11:57 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yeah, I'd take that
It would be nice if we could work Arias into that deal too somehow. Thanks for the stats. I've been working and going to classes all day and I've been working off my PDA checking between here and mlbtraderumors. I think Dejesus is fairly overrated. I don't see why anybody thinks we could get some massive bounty for him. He's average or slightly above average when you look at all facets of the game. Dejesus for Volquez works for me, especially if they add Arias.

by royaldaddy on Dec 4, 2007 11:17 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Massive bounty?
No, we're not going to get a massive bounty for DeJesus.  But one good pitching prospect is a light bounty.  It is tantamount to giving DeJesus away.

DeJesus is a good Major Leauge CFer.  Defense, speed, OBP.  He's not a prospect.  He's not a risk.  Every pitching prospect is a significant risk.  DeJesus is worth a lot more than Volquez plus a throw-in.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 4, 2007 11:21 PM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What do you want for him?
Volquez has some solid numbers and I think he could be a great pitcher in the future. For now, he could be our #4 or 5. I'm really not trying to be argumentative, but what would be a good haul for Dejesus? Let's look at him fairly: Good glove, High OBP Negatives: weak arm, very little power, not that great on the basepaths. What do you expect to get for him? And I really am asking honestly.

by royaldaddy on Dec 5, 2007 12:19 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

What can we get for DeJesus?
Let's look at him fairly: Good glove, High OBP Negatives: weak arm, very little power, not that great on the basepaths.

I agree with most of that.  I would disagree with the "not that great on the basepaths."  He's a good baserunner, just not a particularly good base stealer.  If he were a corner OFer, he wouldn't be anything special.  But he's a CFer with good CF defense.  And his hitting is very good for a CFer.  In addition to his high OBP, he has pretty good power for a CFer.  His SLG over the last three years has been .445, .446 and .372.  Last year obviously wasn't good but the prior two showed significantly more power than the average CFer.

So I think the Royals could get a very good young player for him.  And that doesn't mean a prospect largely untested in the majors.  I'm talking about someone who has had at least 450 major league at bats or 125 innings pitched and shown that they can handle playing at this level.  So I'm looking for a good young player with some real upside potential, but not a risky prospect.

DeJesus's main assets are that he is a proven good player and he's inexpensive for multiple years.  He's very, very low risk.  He's who can play CF for you right now, leadoff your lineup and score 100 runs and very little risk that he would fail or even disappoint.  And he'll do it very inexpensively for the next four years.  His contract makes him a ridiculous bargain.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 12:33 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

I think you should be his agent :)
But seriously, I think you're fairly correct in your assesment, but are you wanting a Kyle Davies for him? Just because Volquez hasn't had the MLB innings as some others, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the potential to be great. We have to take some risks. Remember, we are the Royals. Dejesus could net something really great if we package him with a Billy Buckner or Jimmy Gobble IMO. I would like to ask the Cubs what it would take to get Rich Hill. Maybe we trade Dejesus and someone else for a firstbaseman and wait for someone to be non-tendered (John Patterson). I just think that we should push Dejesus to fill some holes. Volquez had some great K numbers in 2007. Arias has been talked about for a few years now. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think the upside of Volquez could make that deal well worth it.

by royaldaddy on Dec 5, 2007 1:11 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

More DeJesus
But seriously, I think you're fairly correct in your assesment, but are you wanting a Kyle Davies for him?

No, I want someone with upside potential who has actually shown something in the majors.  I'm not talking about a proven major leaguer with a significant track record.  But someone who has actually done something in the majors to show that they are more than just a prospect.

Just because Volquez hasn't had the MLB innings as some others, doesn't mean that he doesn't have the potential to be great.

True, but DeJesus has enough value to get someone who is more than pure, untested major league potential.  And, as far as potential goes, Volquez is a good pitching prospect, but not a great one.  There are probably some pitching prospects I'd trade DeJesus for, elite prospects, but Volquez isn't one of them.

We have to take some risks. Remember, we are the Royals.

Yes, we have to take some risks.  And trading DeJesus for a less experienced player with potential is a risk I support.  But trading him for a mere prospect (and not an elite prospect) who is very much untested in the majors is reckless.  It is also a mistake to trade DeJesus for a prospect like Volquez when we could get more.  And we can.

Dejesus could net something really great if we package him with a Billy Buckner or Jimmy Gobble IMO.

And I'm all for that.  I've suggested some DeJesus trade scenarios since midseason 2007.  But if we trade DeJesus, we need to maximize the return.  One pretty good pitching prospect and a throw-in would be underselling DeJesus greatly.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 1:38 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Santana
Soooo...they are going to start up the talks about Santana again here in a little bit. Apparently they had to go to dinner, how lame. I really want to stay up all night and see what goes down, but I don't think anything will after all so it would be a waste of my time. Not to mention I wouldn't be able to stay awake at work tomorrow.

by MileHighKCfan on Dec 4, 2007 11:19 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

Late Rule V rumor
From Baseball America:

Royals outfielder Chris Lubanski to the Marlins with the fourth overall selection. Lubanski, the fifth overall pick in 2003, was touted for his speed and developing power early in his career. He's still just 22, and a lot of teams have him on their Rule 5 radar for that reason more than anything else, but the fact is that Lubanski isn't a plus runner anymore as he's grown into his frame. He's not even above-average. "This is a fringe-average runner for me," said one AL scouting director. And Lubanski didn't do himself any favors in the Arizona Fall League, often making weak contact and wound up hitting .200/.266/.412 in 85 at-bats.

by CentralChamps2009 on Dec 4, 2007 11:21 PM EST reply actions   0 recs

I think he can stick with Florida all year, too
They have very little in terms of outfielders right now, and Lubanski has enough upside to warrant a spot on the roster, even if it's as a fourth outfielder.

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 2:51 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Trading DeJesus pointless
Unless we acquire Jones.  

Otherwise, we're back to where we were at the beginning of the season: only two competent OF's.  Gathright/Maier are probably 4th outfielders at best -- but if Guillen and Jones are in the lineup their offensive shortcomings are much more hidden.  Still, Guillen, Jones, Teahen our best option.  

by marbotty on Dec 5, 2007 2:49 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

This wouldn't be just about 2008
It is true that if we traded DeJesus for someone other than an OFer it would be a problem in 2008.  But if he is traded for someone young and good with lots of upside, I'd be happy to take a bit of a  hit in 2008 for something that will really pay off in succeeding years.
I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Dec 5, 2007 9:29 AM EST up reply actions   0 recs

Yet another rumour
Newsday's Ken Davidoff writes that Fukudome has narrowed his choices to the Cubs and Royals.  So who is Ken Davidoff,and why does he say such awful things about Kosuke Fukudome?
Yoda

by Yoda on Dec 5, 2007 10:19 AM EST reply actions   0 recs

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