Buddy, Dayton, You're Doing a Heckuva Job

by Will McDonald on May 10, 2007 5:40 PM EDT in News Comment 39 comments

17-3.
11-24, last place by 6 games.

Unstoppable baby!!!

We'll always have those magical memories from the 1st, 3rd and 9th innings, when the team really showed what they are made of. Ohh was it grand when the Royals stormed back to make it a 12-3 ballgame! Everyone has bad games, but we could all rest assured that a line had been drawn and that there'd be no more silliness in the seventh, eighth and ninth. And thats just what happened.

A's Home Runs: 6
Royals Hits: 4

Thankfully, it looks like the Indians will lose, so we'll still only be 10 games out of first.

Things are really coming together, and win or lose, you know the Royals will compete hard every inning of every game.

Favorite GMDM Trade Pickup?

Odie
Banny
Shealy
Larue
Gload
Jalepena

Building a champion, stick to the plan. Keep paying taxes.

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shealy

i still think he will turn it around and neither affeldt or bautista would ever have been an impact player here in kc.

if he doesnt pan out, then hopefully jalapena or banny will because the rest have little to do with longterm success...

by rockchalk on May 10, 2007 6:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Will Shealy get a chance to turn it around?

He'll be competing for playing time with Gload, Sweeney, Gordon, maybe German and who knows who else ... probably another corner player or two (who are out of options) that Dayton acquires when he trades away one of the few pitchers with potential value to another team.

2007 Royals -- the song remains the same

by tfn on May 10, 2007 6:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Oh, and I inexplicably forgot the most obvious

competition for Shealy -- Billy Butler, who should never see time in the outfield again after 2007.

2007 Royals -- the song remains the same

by tfn on May 11, 2007 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Is this the fire everybody thread?

I thought I was joking when I sarcastically said that posters would start calling for firing Bell, Moore and the whole front office and coaching staff soon. It didn't take long.

So much for giving Moore a chance to turn things around. So much for patience. Oh well.

by NYRoyal on May 10, 2007 6:03 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

is dissent allowed?

nothing is working

low-upside guys are playing horribly, high-upside guys are doing worse... basically this season has been the Soria surprise, solid play from DeJesus and Meche, and non-horrible play from Teahen

literally everything else has gone wrong

Dayton Moore got a ton of positive press (Meche not withstanding) all winter, and nearly universal support from the fans.

Things are not going well.

by Will McDonald on May 10, 2007 6:08 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Sure dissent is allowed. Is perspective allowed?

We've had a bad 1.3 months. Moore has been on the job for less than a year. Without a $150 million budget, no GM could turn the team around in this period of time. Before saying that Moore is a failure who hasn't helped the team, he deserves at least a full 2007 season. A horrible start does not necessarily mean that they'll be horrible all year.

I still think this team is going to end up being better this year than it was last year. Better record. Better RS. Better RA. Better ERA. Better OPS. As I have offered before, I'm willing to take bets on any of the above.

by NYRoyal on May 10, 2007 6:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You may be right about the stats

but this team still is bad, bad, bad. A slight improvement over a 100-loss record isn't grounds for celebration. In fact, it's pretty hard for a team to put up 100-loss seasons year after year.

Despite all of the talk about how this year's version was going to be significantly improved over last year, I don't see any improvement at all. We have some potentially good hitters who can't field very well (Butler, Sweeney, German, & Emil), a couple of OK fielders who can't hit (Pena, LaRue), and no depth where we need it. Our starting pitching looks better on paper because hitting and scoring is down overall throughout MLB, but our starting pitching is far from dominant, and I bet our starters' ERA will be significantly higher at year-end than it is now.

I'm not giving up on Dayton because we don't really have a choice but to stay with him for a while. But I think it's time to recognize that what's out on the field right now isn't working, and there's not really anyone at Omaha or Wichita who can come in and help in the near future, either.

by Chico Lind with pants on on May 10, 2007 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

right

and the perspective is bad
things look very bad

by Will McDonald on May 10, 2007 6:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

So the die is cast after 1.3 months?

So, we already know everything about this team after 1.3 month? No more question marks. Everyone who is bad now will stay bad. Maybe get worse. No one who isn't hitting will start hitting. No one who isn't pitching will pitch better. Game over. Season over?

Really?

I think it is too early to write off the team. I don't think any team full of young players proves itself (either positively or negatively) in this short period of time.

Things aren't going well, but they can get better. I bet they will. And I bet we'll make more than a minimal improvement over last year. There's still a lot of season left.

And it is way, way too soon to say that Moore is a failure. I can't even say that most of his trades have been bad. Most of them have been giving away crap for prospects. I'm not losing any sleep over the loss of Burgos, Sisco, Affledt and Bautista.

by NYRoyal on May 10, 2007 6:43 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

except that they haven't been

look at the trades... these guys are not propsects, they are organizational fillers and stop gaps

i understand your position, and hope you are right

but there are serious problems here and i'm not sure we're even remotely better off than we were a year ago

by Will McDonald on May 10, 2007 6:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thought

We've got to give Moore a few drafts to really put his product on the field. The young core of this team is all Baird still, but what we need to hope is that Moore can not only do well at the top of the draft, but in the middle rounds as well, and the international market as well.

Our top two pitchers are Moore acquisitions, which is a good thing for us. But we are going to need to give him time to develop our farm and everything else before we start to compete.

TOWN BIZ. WHAT IT IS.

by wildthang on May 10, 2007 7:54 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

First of all, nobody said "Fire Dayton"

Did you hear anybody say "Fire Dayton"? No. I'm not going to re-hash the Bell argument because it's pointless, but I am confused. When it comes to firing Bell, the talent sucks, but when it comes to being pissed off because we're underperforming, we're negative because the talent is better this year. You can't have your cake and eat it too. Which is it? Is the talent bad or is the leader an idiot? And don't try to give one of those bullshit, ducking the question answers either. I'm f'ing tired of losing! We've been "rebuilding" for 12 damn years. In 1995, it sounded like a great idea. In 2007, it's old and tiresome. Every year we start looking forward to Chiefs football by June and then they suck and we're always told, "Wait til next year" by both of them. I've waited far too many f'ing years! Having two annually bad teams telling you to wait til next year starts to piss you off after a while. So, don't jump down our throats and tell us to loosen up because we've been loose for a hell of a long time and we're fed up with being screwed. I really don't give a rat's ass about patience right now and by God, I have that right. I've been patient and I've kept the faith for all these years. I've went through all the years of assholes dogging me because of my hat or my t-shirt or the magnets on my truck. I take a lot of grief for supporting this ballclub and I want to know that they give two shits about that. I don't know how anybody can't be pissed right now. Something has to give. They had better be in panic mode because the stadium is getting pretty damn quiet. I'm not saying to start freaking out and dumping guys. I'm saying that somebody needs a public ass chewing or a pink slip. SHOW ME THAT YOU CARE ABOUT THIS TEAM AS MUCH AS I DO! Show me that you're pissed off. Don't just sit there giving me the same tired B.S. over and over again. Rant over. I'm out.

by royaldaddy on May 10, 2007 9:36 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Kudos... from St Cloud....

Bring it on Royaldaddy....

by grudz69 on May 10, 2007 10:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank you

That's my salute to Hal McRae. We miss you Mac.

by royaldaddy on May 10, 2007 11:30 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

we've been having this argument all week

it won't be settled here, or any time soon

the bottom line is that the play right now is totally horrible and should be totally unacceptable

bell and moore are two different arguments... but Bell MUST GO

even if we hire someone exactly like him, just for the sake of the "losing isnt acceptable" line of thought, he must go

FIRE BELL

by FireBell on May 10, 2007 6:54 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ah, god.

All I can is that Mom told me when I was in little league that "you can lose 20-1, and it's just one game" and that that's a great thing about baseball. Hopefully Blue just comes back and wins 4-3 tomorrow; Gordon homers, Buck starts, we get good starting pitching, and Soria saves the day. Then everyone will feel a little less inclined to speculate that Moore is already a total failure.

by NHZ on May 10, 2007 6:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

If Glass truly is giving Dayon more power

than he gave Allard, We NEED the record to be better than last year. If Glass decides that he knows baseball better than the GM again, it won't be pretty.

by mazoboom on May 10, 2007 7:36 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ya, but it FEELS so much different this year

I've had it with everyone saying "Ya, we're 11-24 for about the seventh year in a row, but this time it FEELS so much different."

I understand that Baird is gone, so in theory, we have hope. But the only difference between this ungodly bad team and all its predecessors is we have one excellent starting pitcher.

Everything else is the same, and 11-24 feels awful.

by Hippstar on May 10, 2007 9:00 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

a first

I left the game after the top of the 7th. Three homeruns, two of them falling in the fucking FOUNTAINS in ONE INNING. Not to mention one earlier in the game that also went into the fountains. Fucking ridiculous.

I got bored...sue me

by loyal2theroyals on May 10, 2007 9:44 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Again..from St. Cloud...

Thank you wife for posting this and yes, I can hear your laughter from here.

Hippstar ...you hit it right on the nose....

It feels different this season. Because, WE have EXPECTATIONS. Last season, we had a team that was literally thrown together during the summer. We had no expectations for them. A win for last years team was a triumph. Because we assumed they would lose. Then came the GMDM era and we were lead to believe that this team would be better. Meche, Gordon, Teahen, Butler.... we were going to better. GMDM even flirted with a winning record in his comments. That is not what we have now. We suck plain and simple. We will get better? I think that is in how you measure the word better.

I am not calling for a mass firing. What I am calling for is a change in the philosophy of losing. It starts from the top...GMDM. He has to suck up his balls and say that he won't except what we saw today and this past months. If that means Fuddo the Clown has to be fired then so be it. If not, then show me ways that you have kicked this major league team in the butt and made them at least care if they win or lose not just when they will get their next paycheck. Lastly, I will give GMDM his couple of drafts to improve the organization into a top caliber team on the field. But, between then and now, I want a team that hates to lose and that will try their utmost to do that. We aren't getting that now and WE are paying way too much for the product that they are putting on the field.

Lastly, about the boos. If this were a high school team or even a free education college team I would agree about the BOOS. It isn't... these are highly paid men. They are making more then most of us will see in a decade or a lifetime to play a child's game. We as ticket buyers that pay their salary deserve to receive some enjoyment from them. That enjoyment comes from hustle, performing at a skill level commensurate with the job title, and a level of personality that is required to be liked by their fans. If this were American Idol, Teahen and maybe Meche would be the only ones standing. After today I wish we could vote. I would at least send Fuddo to exhile island for the rest of this season.

Enough rambling... I am not happy with the product that the Walmart boys are putting on the field. If GMDM was a regional manager and one of his stores was manage by Fuddo and was doing as poorly as we are. Fuddo would be on the unemployment line along with his staff and some of the players. So, why do we accept it because it is BASEBALL?

by grudz69 on May 10, 2007 10:12 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Where is the Plan?

If the Royals are going to make this "youth movement" work, they need to pick their players, give them playing time and
TAKE THE LUMPS. This is the plan that put the Tigers in the World Series.

We are currently losing with a rotating band of people with no specific position or plan. At least lose with a plan.

The fact that we have no back up SS, 20 outfielders and 3 guys who aren't fit to do anything but DH shows some terrible planning.

Get rid of the old.
Sweeney, Sanders, maybe even Grud need to go.

Pick a line up and Play them EVERYDAY.
C - Buck
1B - Shealy
2B - German
SS - Pena
3B - Gordon
LF - Costa
CF - DeJesus
RF - Teahen
DH - Butler

Same goes with the pitchers. Play them. Don't Coddle Them.

Oh and one more thing...

Could you give the Royals a manager with some
WINNING BASEBALL EXPERIENCE?
Thanks.

by ChrisM70 on May 10, 2007 10:14 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

by the way

they mentioned something about a culture of losing today on 610. Dad and I were listening and playing the 'what stage of grief is this call on' game. Rather fun way to pass the time. We had an anger, a borderline bargaining/depression, and someone who's still in denial!

I got bored...sue me

by loyal2theroyals on May 10, 2007 10:28 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

did they credit royalsreview?

probably not.

by balto on May 11, 2007 8:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Daytime Royals

Maybe somebody can verify this, but it seems like in the last 3-4 years the Royals have had some INCREDIBLE losses during home day games.

I can easily remember one game where they allowed over 20 hits (against the Tigers, maybe?) and another huge daytime loss that REMINDED me of the first game.

I just can't figure out what the problem is...sunlight bouncing off their white uniforms gives them a headache?

by ChrisM70 on May 10, 2007 10:40 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

hudson's meltdown against Cleveland

was a day game

by LeoBloom on May 11, 2007 2:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I can't find the stats

but I'm pretty sure that over the last few years, the day game record is awful even compared to the regular record.

by mazoboom on May 11, 2007 4:47 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Reality Check

I've been a Royals fan for only three years now, and already this is my third May of Recognition. The Aprils have been full of guarded optimism, slowly the realization sinks in, and around this time each year Royals nation is full of fans rending their garments and screaming, "how is it is possible that the Royals still stink!"

That said, I agree with the sentiment described above. Somehow 2007 seems different because there seemed more grounds for hope this time. But 2007 IS different for one other reason. The elevated level of hope this year were not groundless. The Royals are in fact a better team in 2007 than they were in 2006, or 2005. The record is worse this year than the team. That was not true in the past.

Position by position:
Beyond any doubt, the starting pitching this year is much better! By a wide margin.

The bullpen is better.

C - Buck/LaRue vs. Buck/Bako - At worst a wash.

1B - Shealy/Gload vs. Dougie. I go with 2007 by a small margin.

2B - Grudz both years.

3B - Gordon replacing Teahen. We all know Gordon will be OK in time.

SS - Pena vs. the worst single player in major league baseball. Case closed.

RF - Teahen vs. Sanders. I go with Teahen.

CF - DeJesus vs. DeJesus/Gathright. More of DeJesus is always better.

LF - Brown/Butler/Sanders/Gload/Costa vs. Brown - At worst a wash

DH - A more healthy Seeney vs. a less healthy Sweeney. Seems pretty clear cut to me.

The Royals are not winning more games in 2007, but I have faith that this is a temporary situation. The team is clearly better. There is no doubt. And Omaha is clearly better. There is no doubt.

I don't think the Royals are likely to win the Central in the next few years, but hope is in sight. This team is not going to loose 100 games in 2007. I'm fine with the anger and frustration expressed here. I feel it also. But let's keep reality on the table. It is just ignoring reality to say that this team is no better than the 2006 model.

The record is horrible and the Royals were humilated today, but the big picture is not without hope. Dayton Moore is improving the organization. Things are moving in the right direction. I firmly believe this to be true.

Rock Chalk Talk for pretty good KU College Baseball Coverage

by James Quinn on May 10, 2007 11:33 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Post added.... JQ...

I have always believed in you. But in the above post...you can play with names and then when the names don't produce what do you do?

This team needs a colonoscopy and they need it now. They are playing like they don't care. Don't make me point out the examples.

The broom needs to come out and if he has the balls GMDM needs to use it. But, that is the question does this rookie GM have the balls to turn this club around.

Thank you Mrs... this is the last comment. good night guys...

by grudz69 on May 11, 2007 12:13 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Upside?

There's some things to keep in mind:

As much as we want to call Odie, Bannister, Welly (now that he's not a Royal anymore, do we care?) "Dayton moves," the truth is that he was taking the junk we had (seriously, MacDougal may wind up being serviceable between injuries, but I think that that's about it), trying to get what he could for it, and then grabbing everything else he possibly could just to see if something will work for the time being. I think the only real Dayton move we've seen so far--the one that's truly about him building a winning franchise--is the Meche signing. Developing a farm system, making inroads in Latin America, and signing real impact free agents--these things will take serious time before the entire makeup of the team is different(3-5 years). In light of our decade and a half of suffering, does that stink? Yeah. But between the rent-a-player Herk Robinson years and the "wow, I'm a GM" Allard years, the cupboard is empty, and that takes time to restock. If we are still losing a hundred a season in 2010, then GMDM is a bust. Until then, I'll stick with irrational hope.
Every game this team stinks this year is another game we are closer to Buddy Bell hitting the skids. A winner running the team is required, and I think GMDM knows that. But, short of completely damaging Gordon and Butler, there is little Bell's going to do this year to hurt the 2009 and so on Royals. A replacement now doesn't really do all that much more than at the end of the season, so GMDM has little to lose sticking with it. Should the team go the whole year seriously underperforming (and I think this team is performing at a lower level than capable of) will guarantee its Buddy's last, and I for one am willing to endure that at this point.

by CentralChamps2009 on May 10, 2007 11:37 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I think what we need to see

from Bell is that he cares. We don't see that. That's one of the reasons I want him gone. He doesn't even bother to argue with umpires. He has no fire, no emotion (God forbid he show's up a player with a 10.00 ERA or a guy batting .100). Who's in charge of this band of misfits?

I do agree with your first point. Restocking a barren system does take time and he should be given that time. And I do see Moore trying. With that said, I don't know how he can continue having a manager that doesn't seem to care any more.

by Stook on May 11, 2007 1:02 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Wait!!!!!! from St Cloud...

Thank you Mrs..

Now you are talking 2009. You mean not only is the 2007 version going to suck, but maybe, the 2008 version is going to suck. This before we get to some magically delicious 2009 season where everything will come up roses for me and my gal.

Sorry, if GMDM can't put a HUNGRY TEAM on the field this year then my thoughts are dim for 2009. Draft or no draft.

It is all about being hungry. This team is to fat and happy. They have their friend as a manager and they don't have to worry about anything. He will see that they get playing time whether they perform or not. He won't yell at them or berate them because he is their BUD.

Nope, you are fine, I am fine and the world is fine. Take another Prozac and we will all be fine.

by grudz69 on May 11, 2007 12:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I'm not fine

I think Buddy Bell being the manager of this team is a travesty. Only the Baird-Glass braintrust could look at all available candidates and go, "Hey, let's go with the guy who has never been on a winner in his entire major league career as a player, coach, or manager (and 82-80 in Colorado doesn't strike me as "winner")--he'll bring the victories back to KC." This quote in the Star regarding yesterday's debacle says all you need to say about Bell: "It was a bad day," manager Buddy Bell said. "It was one of those games I'm going to throw away and not think about." I'd prefer to have a manager who would say "Boy, this kind of game shows we stink and seemingly don't care about it. Maybe it's time I make us care."

But realistically, the vortex of suck that has been the Royals the last few years is not fixable by just canning the manager as if that's the difference. The "culture of losing" is systemic: the one comment you hear from people who escape KC to go to another organization in whatever capacity is how much more professional that organization is compared to the Royals. Changing the entire culture/system is not going to be fixed overnight, and those of us (myself included)who thought two great prospects and a free agent pitcher were enough alone to save us from the past were kidding ourselves.

If Bell was fired today, I'd be ecstatic. But I also understand GMDM thinking its better to ride the storm out this year to see if the team turns it around rather than go through yet another June of radical change for the third straight year. If it turns around, great. But if not, I think that's all the evidence that Moore needs to junk the entire coaching staff this off-season, which I think he'll do (really, did anybody expect in early March that Berroa would not be our SS right now?). Moore knows bad baseball and won't put up with it, but he's also not going to be reactionary 100% of the time. There's little point to trying to find the best guy out there now instead of waiting until the end of the season.

Sorry, but this year was always about the future. I'd say there are only 5 guys on this team right now who are guaranteed to be a part of the real Dayton Moore Royals: DeJesus, Teahen, Butler, Gordon, and Meche. If Soria holds up, make him #6. That's it, the rest are hopes (Greinke, Buck) or filler. It's time to accept some reality with our wishful thinking and remember, the prize is not a great season, it's a great organization.

by CentralChamps2009 on May 11, 2007 10:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Last Year our awful May

was saved by an "amazing" June. What happens if we don't have a repeat of that? We need more of our miraculous run in October last year. 1-0, baby. What a month.

by mazoboom on May 11, 2007 12:33 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs