Five Fun Facts About Mark Teahen

by royalsreview on Jan 10, 2008 3:58 PM EST in News Comment 51 comments

Ah, our beloved, mysterious, Mark Teahen. He's something of a fixture now, having been mostly a regular since 2005. In three big league seasons, he's managed to post a slugging in the .300s, .400s, and .500s, and in 2006 posted one of the most dramatic splits in team history, turning into Arod for three months to the tune of a .318/.392/.582 second half line. While his off-again, on-again, power frustrates, with his broad skill set (good defense at multiple positions, good baserunning, good OBP) he's a fun player to root for, and someone I'm glad is a Royal.

Onto the Five Fun Facts About Mark Teahen

A California Canadian, Mark attended St. Mary's College in Moraga CA. Surprisingly, 62 Gaels have made it to the bigs, including Von Hayes and Tom Candiotti. At present, it looks like Teahen is the only former-student currently in the bigs, although, you never know when James Mouton might re-emerge again.
Teahen has faced Jose Contreras and Mark Buehrle more than any other pitchers. (Thanks unbalanced schedule!) In 33 career PAs against Contreras, Teahen is .143/.273/.321, but against the Unspellable One, in 30 PAs, he's much better, hitting .433/.433/.567. Teahen has homered twice against five pitchers: Kris Benson (3 PAs), Jeremy Bonderman, Bartolo Colon, Cliff Lee and Javy Vasquez. Teahen's first career HR was against Matt Morris of the Cardinals, on May 21, 2005, in the 2nd inning of a 6-5 Cards win.
Teahen, ever mysterious, ever flexible, has appeared in every batting order position save leadoff man in his career. His most common slot has been 3rd, where he's started in 139 games. From there its 6th (82 starts), 7th (61 starts) and 5th (36 starts). As for flexibility with the glove, Teahen has played 1992 innings at 3rd, 1150 in RF, 49 at 1st and 30 in CF.
Mark has remained patient against lefties, but has nevertheless struggled to grab hits, or hit for power against them. On his career, he's a .243/.307/.381 hitter against southpaws. Still, he's not as bad as he once was. In 2005 he hit .200/.256/.342 against lefties, followed by .274/.333/.481 in 2006, and .255/.328/.344 in his disappointing 2007.
As any reader of Royal Retro's 100 Greatest Royals Series might expect, Teahen is already creeping up the team leaderboard in numerous categories. He's 40th in at bats, 36th in runs (one behind Raul Ibanez), 40th in hits, 34th in doubles (tied with Raul, four behind Emil Brown), 21st in triples (one behind Berroa) and even 37th all time in home runs.

Questions about Teahen's future continue, and at this point its safe to say no one is quite clear. In 2007, friend of RR Marc Normandin profiled Teahen at BP, concluding:

In 2005, Teahen hit most of his flyballs to the middle of the outfield, keeping him from putting together high extra-base hit totals or adding any homers. In 2006 we see a shift, as many more flyballs start to make their way over the heads of outfielders, or at least much deeper. His 2007 looks like it is somewhere in between the two contrasting charts, and his opposite-field power all but disappeared, as did his power up the middle.

What can we take from this? Teahen is a hitter better served by trying to get loft under pitches in order to drive them deep into the outfield, as he just doesn't do enough with the ball when he tries to poke it with a line-drive swing. If he were still in the infield and getting on base while hitting for a decent average, you might be able to put up with the lack of power to some degree.

His defense helps his cause, but only to a point. The Davenport Translations love him defensively in right field, and John Dewan's Revised Zone Rating sees him as a bit above-average, but that doesn't change the fact that he can't out-slug Yuniesky Betancourt while playing an offensive position. The most frustrating thing about Teahen is that after seeing his 2006 season and noting the apparent changes in his style during 2007, we know he can perform better than he did in '07, but unless he sticks with what works for him offensively—and not what he prefers to do—we won't see that production again.

Can he return to his tremendous 2006 form? Will he land somewhere between '06 and '07 in '08 (there's an ugly question)? Only ~~time will tell~~ (horrible cliche) patience will reveal the answer.

The night before Fanfest, Teahen will be hosting a Fashion Show.

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Comments

Teahen will settle in this year

I don't think he'll have an SLG% above .500 but he'll show more power than he did last year.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 10, 2008 4:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

just found this...

giants thoughts on acquiring teahen

http://www.mccoveychronicles.com/story/2008/1/9/151056/4006

by royalsreview on Jan 10, 2008 4:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

so would you

trade Teahen for Lowry? It might be something worth considering.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 10, 2008 4:41 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

hard to say I guess, but prolly

he's more valuable as a 3B and Lowry is Lowry...

by royalsreview on Jan 10, 2008 4:45 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I think I would

but then that leaves the question of 4th outfielder. Say Teahen was traded. You're looking at an outfield of

Guillen
DDJ
Gathright

and where from there? Using Gload, bringing someone up? That's the only real draw back I see to it. Costa is okay and it will be some time before Robinson is ready (though he's one I'm looking for), maybe using German.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 10, 2008 4:57 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely no for Lowry

87/87 K/BB in 2007. That's beyond ugly. How he posted a sub 4.00 ERA is mindblowing to me. I doubt he is as lucky in 2008.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 10, 2008 5:29 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

How lucky is he?

I'm no Noah Lowry expert, but his ERA+ have been:

2004 114
2003 113
2005 95
2006 113

That's pretty consistent. Three seasons pitching at the level of a good #2 SP. Could he really have been lucky for 3 out of 4 years? His career K/BB is 420/249 with a K/9 of 6.1. Those peripherals aren't bad, and it is clear that he knows how to limit runs scored. When you are that effective over 4 years, it isn't luck.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 10, 2008 5:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

But when you post

A 1:1 K/BB ratio...you are heading for disaster. It's fine to not strike guys out provided that you don't walk too many. Lowry doesn't do that.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 10, 2008 7:14 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe hasn't been lucky,

but I'm leaning torwards your argument. A K:BB ratio of 1:1 portends a very uncertain future. For every Kirk Rueter there's ten guys who wash out.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 10, 2008 7:18 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That was one season

His K/BB was better than that in 2006 and much better than that in 2007. How worried should we be about one peripheral in one season, particularly when he's had a very good 3 out of the last 4 years?

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 10, 2008 7:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Damn difficult to say, really,

it's just a red flag that you never like to see. Given the relative wealth of pitching options on the team compared to the players who could still break out and hit for some power, I'd prefer Teahen's brand of inconsistency to Lowry's at this juncture. It's hard to condemn Lowry on the basis of one season, of course, which I'm not doing, but I don't like this trade idea much.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 10, 2008 8:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I wouldn't jump on the trade

...but I do find it intriguing. It would be worth strong consideration. The Royals "wealth of pitching options" amounts to a bunch of guys with #4/#5 SP potential (after the top 3...and I suppose Hochevar's ceiling is higher). A pitcher like Lowry who has had 3 seasons pitching at #2 SP-quality is in a completely different class from someone like Hudson, Bale, Nunez or Matt Wright. I really think Lowry is a safe bet to be at least a #3 SP for the next three years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 10, 2008 8:40 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Lowry would also be

a lefty in the rotation.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 9:27 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Maybe it's just that I'm overly

optimistic about Hochevar and some of the other younger pitching options.

A mind without purpose will walk in dark places.

by NHZ on Jan 11, 2008 10:28 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'm optimistic about Hochevar

But I'm trying to temper my optimism. I kind of think he'll end up as a solid #3/#4 SP. He may well become better than that, but of course most prospects never hit their "ceiling." As for the Royals other pitching prospects... The ones that are close to the majors are all low-ceiling guys in my mind. I think Nunez could become a very good setup man or maybe even closer, but I don't think he has a high ceiling as a SP. I could of course be wrong. The only pitching prospect in the system -- other than Hochevar -- who I think has a high ceiling is Cortes, but he's still years away from the majors and most pitching prospects do fail.

So I don't think our crop of pitching prospects is so good that we couldn't greatly benefit from a good, young, cheap starting pitcher who has mostly pitched like a #2 SP and who should at least manage to be a #3 SP for the forseeable future.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 10:47 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree with NYRoyal

A rotation of

Meche
Bannister
Lowry
Grienke
Hochevar

would look pretty good. And it's a rotation that could stay together for a number of years. Nunez is better out of the pen in my opinion. Saw him start a game for Wichita I think, he either started or was brought in really early can't remember, but he looked amazing for the first inning or two but after that was not as impressing. He got the job done but I think he is definitely a relief pitcher.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 11:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's the rotation of a playoff contender

I'm not saying that rotation by itself gets you into the playoffs, but that rotation in 2009 would be as good or better than many playoff rotations of recent years.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 11:32 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Banking on excess optimism

That rotation looks great on paper with regards to potential, but we need to restrain our optimsism a bit and take risk into account.

Meche certainly took a big step forward last season, but will he do it again? I'd say it's probable but I could also see him regressing a bit.

Bannister also looked great last season, but he has even less margin for error than Meche due to his lack of natural stuff. Anyone who averages a 4.2 K/9 in .264 BABIP in his first MLB season needs to remain innovative, intelligent, and crafty throughout a career to remain successful. I think Banny COULD do that, but I'm not sure that he will.

Greinke has the highest ceiling of anyone on the list, but he still has yet to prove that he can be a high-level MLB starter for an entire season. He's the highest-reward asset that we have but his erratic history raises at least a yellow flag as to what he can be. Beginning with his 62 MPH loopy curves in 2004, his dismal 2005 performance, his psychological problems in 2006, and glimpses of stardom in 2007, I don't know where he'll be next year. I am banking on improvement, but how much? I could see him settling in as a #2, becoming a staff ace, perhaps even a Cy Young contender if everything falls in to place. At the same time I could see him inexplicably struggling and falling somewhere between a #3-#4 starter. That's valuable, but not as valuable as he can or should be, especially if we are going to talk about an AL-playoff worthy rotation.

Meanwhile, we really need to temper our optimism on Hochevar. His peripherals were promising last year but did not match his performance. Frankly, considering all the accolades heaped on him and the MLB-ready success of Andrew Miller and Tim Lincecum (whom the Royals could have taken), he's been a disappointment. Hoch is still young enough to be great, but he could just as easily flame out.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 11, 2008 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

All good points

There is a range of outcomes for each of these pitchers I think this is the reasonable range (in SP-quality) for each:

Meche - #2-#3
Greinke - #1-#3
Bannister - #2-#4
Hochevar - #2-#5

The top end of that range is a great rotation. The bottom end is a mediocre-to-poor rotation. The middle range is a pretty good rotation.

By the way, DCRoyal, your post made a good case for trading for Lowry. ;)

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Hoch

is good enough to be a #5 starter. I would hope he could get up to a 4-3 type status.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 1:08 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

A quick note on Miller

I wasn't impressed by the "MLB-ready success" of Andrew Miller. 64 ip, 5.63 ERA, 1.75 WHIP, 39 Walks. The K-rate was good, but the rest of his stats stunk. If rushed to the majors like Miller was, I think Hochevar could have managed that crappy stat line.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 1:15 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed re: Miller

Hoch could have done that at the MLB level last season. I guess in comparing Miller and Hoch, it's a matter of personal preference. Hoch is a flyball pitcher, Miller a groundball. Miller's a tall, lanky lefty, Hoch is a sterotypical power RHP built like an ox.

The only real advantage that I see in Miller currently is age (Miller born in 1985, Hoch born in 1983). But even that likely will not matter in the long run.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

As for Lowry

The dismal K/BB in 2007 is enough to raise a red flag for me. I also have a natural knee-jerk "no" reaction when it comes to trading for an NL pitcher who is anything short of an All-Star...somewhat irrational.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 11, 2008 1:39 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

It is a red flag

The only question is how significant that red flag is. If he has problems with his mechanics which are causing loss of command over time, then that red flag is very real. I'd be more concerned about trading for a NL pitcher if his park and league normalized ERA's weren't so good.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 1:50 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Interesting point on Teahen's 3B defense

About a month ago, someone at BP wrote an article in which they combined a bunch of defensive metrics to create a consensus or median metric of a player's defense. One interesting thing I remember is that it showed Teahen's 3B defense from 2006 as being one of the worst in baseball. I remember the writer saying something like "I can see why they moved him to the OF." (paraphrasing) That was a bit of a surprise to me. He certainly didn't look that bad at third base to me.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 10, 2008 5:41 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Teahen at 3B

NY, this is just me, subjectively, from observing so many games in person, and also on TV when available - but I was in the camp that said he was a poor defender at 3B. To me, the arm was OK, and he was sorta OK coming in on slowly hit balls, but his range sure stunk! Combined with Berroa at shortstop, right handed ground ball hitters had to be frothing at the mouth to face us.

Interesting to note - this is one of the very first things Moore fixed, via trading for Pena and moving Teahen to RF to make room for Gordon.

I'm a BIG believer in Moore, and I'd like to think he sorta confirmed what I suspected in 2006 - infield defense on the left side of the field was a MAJOR part of the 2006 pitching staff woes.

Again, just an opinion, from somebody who is no scout, just a guy who has probably watched 10s of thousands of games over the years...

by loyal2s dad on Jan 10, 2008 6:10 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looks like the stats support you

The above link from a Giants fan site cites multiple statistical sources saying that Teahen was a poor defensive 3B.

I like that he upgraded the IF defense. There's no doubt in my mind that the improved defense really helped the pitching and will continue to help the development of our young pitchers like Bannister, Greinke, Hochevar, Nunez, etc.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 10, 2008 6:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

well, i do think he was/is solid in OF at least

by royalsreview on Jan 10, 2008 8:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Definitely

I think last season he was at least average for an OFer overall (when you consider range, arm and keeping base runners from taking extra bases). And since it was his first season in the OF, I expect him to be somewhat better this year. I really think he'd eventually become a competent defensive CFer.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 10, 2008 8:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed

Considering the relatively small amount of time he has had in RF, I thought he did extremely well there last year. The arm is a huge asset; I've already posted elsewhere that he ranked 6th in the majors among RFs at controlling the basebaths.

With some additional time, he should improve with his range and route taking; I wouldn't be all that surprised if he developed into a near Gold Glove RF eventually.

by loyal2s dad on Jan 11, 2008 4:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

very nice..

wore my Teahen Tuesday T to the gym today...say that 5 times fast

Don't be lonesome for your heroes. Be your own hero.

by PhattStairs on Jan 10, 2008 8:08 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Guys at McCovey

are throwing out Teahen and Shealy for Lowry.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 11:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs

They are close

I think Teahen for Lowry straight up is tilted in favor of the Royals. But adding Shealy tilts the balance too much in their favor. If it were Teahen and Shealy for Lowry and mediocre Giants prospect, then that would probably be fair. I don't know enough about the Giants system to know who that prospect might be.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 12:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That's what I was thinking

if they had a decent OF prospect to throw in then I'd definitely go for it.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 1:00 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I'd need to know more about Lowry

Some players I'm very familiar with and I feel confident saying we should or shouldn't trade for him. I don't know enough about Lowry. Reading at mcoveychronicles, there have been multiple injury problems for Lowry (although they haven't limited his innings pitched very much) and some say he has problems with mechanics which explain his increasing command problems. If either of these two things are big concerns, then this could make Lowry someone I wouldn't ever trade a good player/prospect for.

Long story short, if this is something that Sabean would be at all interested in, I would want Moore's best scouts to analyze film of every inning Lowry pitched last year as well as looking at his medical records. If, after all of that, Moore liked this kid as a reliable #3 SP (or better), do the deal. If they don't like him, then forget it.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 1:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

My deal

Teahen/Shealy for Lowry/Schierholtz

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

The problem with that

...is that according to Baseball America, Schierholtz is the Giants #4 prospect. I don't know anything about him, but if Lowry-for-Teahen straight up is too much in favor of the Royals, adding Shealy and the Giants #4 prospect to the deal is still probably too much in favor of the Royals. I think it would probably have to be a lower level prospect. But, then again, if their prospects are crappy, then who knows.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 1:23 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Giants prospects

from what I can tell outside of their pitching prospects the rest are not great. I saw someone on McCovey throwing Schierholtz name out there. I think he'd do fine as a 4th OF for the Royals.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 1:38 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Schierholtz Baseball Cube

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/S/nate-schierholtz.shtml

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 1:35 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

Looks a lot like Shane Costa

...without the MLB experience. He might make a fine #4 OFer. That might be too much for the Giants to give up for Teahen and Shealy.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 1:51 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

That was my initial thought

only he's a couple of years younger than Costa.
I like Costa okay just not big on him. I'd say let the two fight for that 4th OF spot.

Sign Alex Gordon to a life time contract!!!

by eboston on Jan 11, 2008 2:46 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

whenever my mind turns to shane costa

i just get confused

by royalsreview on Jan 11, 2008 4:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Yet another AAAA player

I can't think of any other way to describe him. Destroys AAA, can't even be a mediocre bench player in the AL.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 5:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Costa

Perhaps past examples will ring a bell for you:

Brandon Berger
Joe Vitiello
Larry Sutton

They're pretty much the same person.

"I'm tired of all these stupid a$$ questions every day. Why the f**k would I hit Brett for Miller?" The rest is history.

by DC Royal on Jan 11, 2008 5:05 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Nice guys

This is what I know about nice guys like these:

They can hit in the Pacific Coast League or the American Association
They can't manage even mediocrity in the majors
They finish last

Shane, it was fun to flirt with the idea for a little while that you might make a decent major leaguer. Now the flirtation is over. I hope you are a throw-in on a trade soon. I don't want to give Hillman an excuse to play you...ever.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 5:09 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Costa is a better athlete than those guys

which may mean something, may not

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Jan 12, 2008 2:55 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I don't understand

why some are so willing to get rid of Teahen. I might argue that he is our most dependable outfielder and combining clubhouse presence, more valuable that a questionable pitcher with declining (?) skills. I like Teahen and think he can contribute more season long than someone like Lowrey.

Success is counted sweetest by those who ne'er succeed. - Emily Dickinson

by buddyball on Jan 11, 2008 10:27 PM EST reply actions 0 recs

I'd trade anyone to improve the team

The question is figuring out which trades would actually improve the team. Lowry has been a #2-quality starting pitcher. If he can manage to maintain that or slip only to a #3-quality SP, I think it would make sense to trade Teahen for him.

Then, the Royals could pick up an OFer next offseason through free agency and low and behold we would have a contending team. We would certainly have a better team.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 11, 2008 10:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

I agree w/ NY about Teahen being expendable

The downside is we don't really have a good COF to take over. Both DDJ and Gathright are only really valuable at CF, putting them both on the field at the same time results in a net loss in offense. For the right price, though, I would be okay with that arrangement for a season.

My concern would be with Lowry being the return on the trade. He's posted pretty good ERAs over the last few seasons, but it's not as though his WHIP has been incredible, and his K:BB ratio has been pretty horrendous. Perhaps last season was anomaly, but I'm inclined to side with the "No to Lowry" group.

by marbotty on Jan 12, 2008 7:15 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs

then again

the time to trade Teahen was LAST winter, win it stil llooked like he was a beast

not so much now

Hillman, you're on notice.

by FireBell on Jan 12, 2008 2:56 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs

Last winter

Dayton Moore screwed up again, huh?

Not really.

Do you think that other GM's saw one good 2/3 of a season from him and felt confident that he was a beast? No, he was still unproven with one good partial season under his belt. He has significant trade value. If he has a good season (no, it doesn't have to be a great season) in 2008, his trade value will go up significantly.

I probably disagree with you.

by NYRoyal on Jan 12, 2008 5:27 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs